posted                      

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mrs.:
you are right Smuckers, about the women that are truly 'victims'. I was thinking this in the shower after I posted. In my opinion a victim is someone who has no control over a situation, so in the cases you describe the wives were victims, in my case, I was never a victim because I had the instict and ability to act when I found things out, In my case the 'Yank's (as you described him ) wife was the real victim. If i'd have named and shamed him, it would have been her who suffered the most, being pregnant, in England with him and Brazillian (no American family).

When people seek revenge they have no idea who it will impact on and I dont think it makes any difference to the man, its not going to change him, all it will do is keep the bitterness alive in you.

????? you are right also, its a wider cultural acceptance of behaviour like this, but then women are always the down trodden in most societies. Its about power over women as Smuckers said, most men love to have this, it feeds them in an otherwise powerless situation. Most men would not willingly 'live' off a woman because it will render them powerless.
Perhaps the Yank that I was with felt powerless in the military, or in his marriage, who knows...and I was probably an outlet for him to live his fantasy life and have some power.

But I also dont think many of these men are 'evil', insensitive yes and selfish perhaps but not evil. In fact I would argue that they are more unhappy than me, because I am not searching for something, be in power, status, happiness and they are. Because of that I would never want to destroy someone with revenge.

---

Posts: 2404 | Registered: May 2006  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

---

Originally posted by With a name like Smuckers:
I don't think they're evil as much as they simply have no conscience.

---

Posts: 7202 | From: EU | Registered: Nov 2006  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

---

Originally posted by With a name like Smuckers:
Haven't you ever heard the song by SADE 'smooth operator'? She sings about Western men seducing women so easily:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1Aj2yODys0

so I guess it just depends on who you are.

---

Posts: 1917 | From: WALES | Registered: Apr 2007  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

---

Originally posted by walkingathinline:
many cultures don't respect women; hell, my great aunt - who i love very much and is 89 years old - said to me the other day that she "hates women and that men should be in control of everything"...this was in response to my questioning her about Hillary's chances of being president...i had to laugh, because, really, who am i to tell this matriarch and wonderfully kind, warm, caring, fun woman that she is wrong??? i mean, i did ask, "um, you are a woman, do you hate yourself?" she told me that she is just old fashioned and thinks that men should take care of politics! anyway...i think smucks is right about certain factors that push these men into desperation, and when a person is desperate, he will do almost anything.

i will also add that ALL the men in my husband's immediate family are respectful, so there are at least 8 men in egypt who don't fit your mold Anthro! LOL

cheers!
OM

---

i have 20 men in our family that have great respect for women also

Posts: 9443 | From: USA...... | Registered: Jun 2006  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

---

Originally posted by happybunny:


I don't know what it feels like to be used to enter my country or for money but i do know women who do. They would say it is far worse knowing they were used in this way than say an ex husband who cheated on them. I don't know why but i think it has alot to do with the dreams they had for their future because lets be honest egyptain men do have a charming way of talking and making you feel very good about yourself and that life together will be wonderful, when infact he knows what will happen as soon as he gets aboard or gets that money he needs

---

Posts: 918 | From: Earth | Registered: Jan 2008  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

---

Originally posted by Anthropos:
Of course there are liars and cheaters everywhere.

Yet there is no denying the fact that Egyptian culture facilitates it for guys to have no respect for women. The society is built around the man. And there is constant propaganda about how the man is more important.

There is simply no respect for women. Look at sexual harassment, as you have often done here on the forum, there is more of it in Egypt then elsewhere. It is as simple as that. There is something in the air that is creating these men.

The question is what should be done to stop it or change it? Religion isn't working. Everybody claims to be muslim or Christian or whatever and still the men are like this???

I come from a country where a majority of the people are not religious, many even say that they don't believe in God. Yet there is RESPECT FOR PEOPLE!!!!! Respect for women, respect for the individual freedom, respect for privacy.

---

I think I have given this analogy before but it is valuable so here it goes again.

The analogy about the difference between grace and the law is like the difference between a city dog and a country dog.

The city dog is locked up in a small back yard. Think of the fence as the law. He is good and does not run away because he has no choice, the law confines him. But if ever he gets out he runs and when his master runs to catch him he runs even faster. The faster the master runs to catch him the faster the dog runs away. (I had a dog just like this)

On the other hand, the country dog has wide open spaces. He has the freedom to go where ever he pleases, yet he sits at his masters door.

In other words "The law is the strength of sin".

Posts: 3891 | From: No good deed goes unpunished. | Registered: May 2007  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

---

Originally posted by With a name like Smuckers:
Other than the need for a nude-beach comment, I find that more and more I am agreeing with ?????'s points of view. It is definitely what you accept.
My mother used to say that in a soceity it is the women who pretty much decide how they will be treated, either consciously or unconsciously. The fact that so many here stay quiet and take it only validates that point.

---

Posts: 2404 | Registered: May 2006  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

---

Originally posted by happybunny:
Mrs quoted: - screaming 'green card, visa, he wanted my money' is no difference to white supremacist views.


hmmm yeah ok mrs,

What I mean by this is that it suggests superiority of the West, 'this guy obviously only wanted me because of money or to come to the wonderful west', Its very disrespectful of Egyptian culture and people to assume EVERYONE wants out if a western women gives them the chance - do you know what I mean?


In actual fact after i wrote the above, i thought about it and i agree with you in part that yes probably one of reasons that women do feel so bad about being used is the fact that they feel they lose face amongst their friends and family who may have warned them. They may feel stupid for choosing/loving a man who turned out not to be 'real'.

On these boards i do see many happy marriages between egyptain men and western women, i for one am very very happy as i have told you before (me a non muslim too shock horror!) so when i read these posts when women have met men and they have used them it upsets me because i feel that all egyptain men are tarred with the same brush.

You know Mrs, you cannot get away from the fact that some have been used. You may not have been, i have not (thank god) but there are many that have. For you suggest that maybe you just had differences is completely nonsence. There are men who wait the 2 years and get there leave to remain and are gone that week! There are men who don't even bother to wait and just live illegally here in the uk or elsewhere after a few weeks of arriving. How about that woman whos husband would not agree to divorce until she paid him £££££ (a few thousand, i think 10 sterling) You also mentioned then that maybe he was the wronged party in that case.


You misunderstood me Happybunny, I didnt say he was wronged, I said the same as I am saying here. There are two side to every coin. On here people are very quick to accept the stereotype, look at how many people have been suggesting 'englishrose' name and shame the man she was involved with - with only knowing one side. I like to play devils advocate sometimes

I am well aware that some women do get scammed, but we find what we're looking for most of the time. At the beginning of a 'potentially hazardous' relationship, those women looking for love find love and ignore many warning signs. when it ends they look for excuses why it ended that dont reflect on who THEY are, but deflect onto other, more stereotypical views of these men. I'm sure some were conned, there's no smoke without fire, but not ALL.

I am not saying that all relationship break downs are due to the egyptain man using these women - some are, plain and simple.

Maybe this site attracts women who have a connection with egypt ie husband or the women duped by egyptain men. Maybe the women who have had a relatively long relationship with their egyptain husband and they just decided to separate for a number of different reasons do not find the need to join an on-line forum about egypt, just a thought.

---

agreed on last two points and you probably put it better than I did

Posts: 918 | From: Earth | Registered: Jan 2008  |  IP: Logged |