posted
My daughter has been married for 3 months and still doesn't have a key to the flat she lives in with her MIL and husband. She doesn't go out alone but I still think she should have a key to her own home. When she asked her husband for a key he said "Why do you need one?"
Let the comments begin...
Posts: 66 | From: USA | Registered: Mar 2009
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I'm speechless. Ok, I mean what does her husband think will happen later - she never goes shopping alone or something else like that? MIL might be home all the time but still, you NEVER know what might happen and there is a situation where no one is home. Will she always be accomppanied when she goes out of the house?
Posts: 758 | From: Finland | Registered: Jun 2006
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I lived in cairo for 5months without a key and without going out alone.
I nearly did go insane.
your daughter really needs to address this and start having a life there otherwise it will not last.
Posts: 1248 | From: my sex is on fire!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! | Registered: Aug 2008
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I left to come back to the UK to have my daughter and decided I couldn't live out there as I was before. We're still in UK now.
Posts: 1248 | From: my sex is on fire!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! | Registered: Aug 2008
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Don't say you weren't warned, Egyptmom..this is just the begining, if he don't trust Ruqaya now then he ain't trustworthy himself..it seems his mom is the boss. Posts: 3219 | From: Wisdom comes with age, but sometimes age comes alone. | Registered: Nov 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Dzosser: Don't say you weren't warned, Egyptmom..this is just the begining, if he don't trust Ruqaya now then he ain't trustworthy himself..it seems his mom is the boss.
It doestn seem,SHE is obviously the boss since they are both living in her house.
Posts: 3833 | From: here,there,everywhere | Registered: Nov 2007
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How many egyptian women always need someone with them when they go out? When I was there, I saw plenty walking the streets, alone, with female friends etc. I walked the streets alone, and I lived to tell the tale!
-------------------- Another one.... Posts: 2573 | From: England | Registered: Jun 2008
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posted
Bring your girl back home!! Let her get married to a nice and eduated American man in a couple of years after she completed college.
Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Tigerlily: Bring your girl back home!! Let her get married to a nice and eduated American man in a couple of years after she completed college.
She knows I will help her get home at any time. It has to be her choice. I can't force her to do anything. It just doesn't work that way.
Posts: 66 | From: USA | Registered: Mar 2009
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Well so yeah I think she's gotta hang in there then. But whenever she's complaining let her know she can come home anytime and if she decides to end this marriage and her life in Egypt she won't be judged as a failure. She makes life experience. Perhaps she needs some more time to finally come to the conclusion herself that this is not her place there.
Your daughter must be completely going through culture shock right now, I bet it's hard on her. Dang I just wish her MIL would be working with and not against her.
Why does she make it so hard on herself when it could all be so simple but I guess it's part of growing up and finding her own way.
All the best to your girl.
Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
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Gosh!! Gosh!! Gosh!! .. . . . Gosh!! You were warned ,of course his mom is the boss ,the KID is married in her house.
your daughter must have a key!
seems like they think their daughter will lose the key and the appliances in the house will get stolen Posts: 2417 | From: Cairo | Registered: Jun 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Tigerlily: Bring your girl back home!! Let her get married to a nice and eduated American man in a couple of years after she completed college.
She knows I will help her get home at any time. It has to be her choice. I can't force her to do anything. It just doesn't work that way.
Why are you exposing her problems for the world to see?
If my mom did that I wouldn't trust her, let alone live with her.
humiliating your daughter like this isn't going to bring your daughter back any sooner.
Posts: 514 | Registered: Jul 2009
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posted
Originally posted by $sonomod$: Why are you exposing her problems for the world to see?
What world ? its just us fvcking ESers, and talking of exposure this would be a drop in the ocean.. Posts: 3219 | From: Wisdom comes with age, but sometimes age comes alone. | Registered: Nov 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Dzosser: Originally posted by $sonomod$: Why are you exposing her problems for the world to see?
What world ? its just us fvcking ESers, and talking of exposure this would be a drop in the ocean..
Dzosser how would you like it if your mother posted detailed information of the status/condition of the sheets, socks or tissues that you spill your nocternal emissions?
Seriously I know that crap on here can spill into real life.
There was a kentucky woman on here who would proudly post pictures, documenatary and personal details of her just barely adult "18" daughter as she dated and married her egyguy. This woman was really proud that her daughter kept her virginity until marriage. That last fact alone really weirded out alot of westerners.
wait a minute dzosser are you really 59?
Posts: 514 | Registered: Jul 2009
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As is well documented here I have no children but I would find it very hard to see my young daughter go to a country with completely different ways to marry someone. I could be wrong but I think you said your daughter's fiance didn't like her going out on her own in the US. I apoligise if I have got this wrong but if it is so then it does look like he is quite a controlling man and she was aware of this before she went. All you can do is be there for her if she decides it's not for her.
Posts: 4476 | From: Scotland | Registered: Mar 2006
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posted
Originally posted by $sonomod$: wait a minute dzosser are you really 59?
Erm..yes, is that a felony or somethin' Posts: 3219 | From: Wisdom comes with age, but sometimes age comes alone. | Registered: Nov 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Dzosser: Originally posted by $sonomod$: wait a minute dzosser are you really 59?
Erm..yes, is that a felony or somethin'
no its not illegal to be an old fart.
So that pic was yours and it wasn't a joke.
you're dutch right? now that should be a felony, dutch people suck, and suck in a bad way.
Tell you what dzosser, I'll suck you down in a manner that will blow your mind, probably give you a heart attack that will end you. If you get me that 7' bastard who does security interviews of US passenger planes going into the US.
I had written down the entire interogation of this nastay arsed bastard, he was stupid, tall stupid, and all around anti-american.
He did this interogation in front of hundreds of USA bound passengers.
Get this bastard tied down so I can take a sludge hammer to his family jewels and the blow job is yours. deep throat.
Believe me it would be worth your efforts.
Posts: 514 | Registered: Jul 2009
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posted
Sono..can you be more specific as to what is it exactly you are talking about ?? I'm in a meeting for the moment, will fly back to Amsterdam by midnight tomorrow..cheers.
Posts: 3219 | From: Wisdom comes with age, but sometimes age comes alone. | Registered: Nov 2005
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posted
It sounds like the MIL has a key and has control over it and thats why the egyption husband has not given his wife the key..he may be afraid the wife will leave his MIL alone... Maybe i am wrong but I asked a friend of mine and this is what I was told. But my friend also said his wife should have a key too for emergencies as a spare.
This is very odd my friend said.
Posts: 1048 | From: If you are given a blessing you may be envied | Registered: Oct 2008
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quote:Originally posted by Dzosser: Originally posted by $sonomod$: wait a minute dzosser are you really 59?
Erm..yes, is that a felony or somethin'
no its not illegal to be an old fart.
So that pic was yours and it wasn't a joke.
you're dutch right? now that should be a felony, dutch people suck, and suck in a bad way.
Tell you what dzosser, I'll suck you down in a manner that will blow your mind, probably give you a heart attack that will end you. If you get me that 7' bastard who does security interviews of US passenger planes going into the US.
I had written down the entire interogation of this nastay arsed bastard, he was stupid, tall stupid, and all around anti-american.
He did this interogation in front of hundreds of USA bound passengers.
Get this bastard tied down so I can take a sludge hammer to his family jewels and the blow job is yours. deep throat.
Believe me it would be worth your efforts.
classic....did not know whether to laugh...at sono's own modesty...or cry...for dzosser....run man run....
Posts: 312 | From: my world | Registered: Sep 2007
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posted
what about your self respect...lol....anyway...she said she would give you a heart attack....i hope the photo's dont get published..... be it on your own head (literally) you have been warned....
Posts: 312 | From: my world | Registered: Sep 2007
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posted
Hello Egyptmom I have been here about 6 months and I have no keys. This is perfectly fine with me, one less thing to worry about losing/finding.
When we are finally in our own apartment (STILL at the in-laws), I will have a key but we aren't there just yet. Soon insha'Allah.
I honestly don't see what the problem is with not having a key. If she needs to go out alone at some point, then she can ask for one. However, I guess we all know she isn't about to go out alone.
quote:Originally posted by Egyptmom: My daughter has been married for 3 months and still doesn't have a key to the flat she lives in with her MIL and husband. She doesn't go out alone but I still think she should have a key to her own home. When she asked her husband for a key he said "Why do you need one?"
quote:Originally posted by Egyptmom: My daughter has been married for 3 months and still doesn't have a key to the flat she lives in with her MIL and husband. She doesn't go out alone but I still think she should have a key to her own home. When she asked her husband for a key he said "Why do you need one?"
Let the comments begin...
Hi Egyptmom,
I would stay totally out of it, and let her work it out herself. This is not a biggie, and there are probably things going on that we do not know about. She needs to learn to communicate her needs effectively, and in doing so will be stronger for it. There will be tons more situations like this in the future, and she needs to gain self confidence that she can handle these things herself. Don't make a big deal out of it to her, and let her manuver through these cultural things with the knowledge that SHE can do it and be happy
Laura (living in Egypt over 7 years and still alive and happy Posts: 3291 | From: I DO believe in Karma! | Registered: Apr 2002
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from the culture side i would look at it...if she is not working or going to college....and she is not allowed out by herself i can see his point why does she need a key...(though i dont agree with point because i am western and am used to coming and going as i please) but she has moved into their culture and lifestyle....so as laura says...it is upto her now to slowly set the wheels in motion...of what your daughter finds acceptable or not...and learn to either work around the situation to the best of her abilities....and all you can do at the moment as her mum....is to be there for her whenever....which i can see that you are...
Posts: 312 | From: my world | Registered: Sep 2007
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-------------------- Are we going somewhere or are you going to keep annoying me with your boring lectures professor-warrior?? Posts: 368 | Registered: Sep 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Laura: *feels like throwing up*
Exactly my feeling right now and I didn't even have breakfast yet!!!
On another note: As soon as I moved in with my ex in Cairo I was given a key - and we weren't even engaged.
Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
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posted
I'm just hoping the husband isn't pretending as if this is normal in Egypt. Too many times you hear about Egyptian guys lying to their western wives/girfriends, along the lines off: "This is how it is done in egypt/this is what Egyptian women do" etc. The western woman is often too isolated to know the truth, and just takes his word for it. This is why it is so important to learn everything you can about the culture from other sources, and better yet, become friends with locals (other expats and Egyptian women). Women go out alone, they work, they have keys, have friends, etc. I couldn't imagine living in a new country and not being able to explore it. How would it ever feel like home?
-------------------- Another one.... Posts: 2573 | From: England | Registered: Jun 2008
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Laura (living in Egypt over 7 years and still alive and happy
Yes, but do you have a key This thread is about THE KEY and it would be great if you stick to the subject Posts: 406 | Registered: Mar 2008
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posted
Additionally (cont from my post above), was it you who told your daughter that she should ask for a key, or she felt like she should have one without you having mentioned it to her? Does she care, or is it you who cares?
Like I said, if she isn't out of the house by herself, she doesn't need one.
This girl isn't going about town with friends all the time or out shopping all the time, she's home or out with her husband correct? So what is the point in having a key?
If someone feels so strongly that they need to have a key to make a point, maybe they should think about that...what point are you trying to make and why? What is so wrong about not having a key?? Posts: 1283 | From: Cairo | Registered: Feb 2006
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^ Of course it is not necessary to have a key if she doesn't ever go out alone (or with friends). I guess there are those people too who don't but I just think that any normal person would like to have some friends when moving to another country, maybe visit them and do something together. That means she is going sometimes out alone. Ok, maybe her husband will pick her up but still, something can happen. Then it's nice to have a key so you don't have to hang around somewhere outside.
And what about small everyday chores, like shopping which I mentioned. Is someone ALWAYS going to escort her?
I realise people are different but it is hard for me to understand that someone never goes outside with friends. That must make you lonely in the long run. But that's not my business anyway
And if I think this a bit further, perhaps I have this idea that only small children are not given a key and it is just weird if NOT giving a key when ASKED. I mean WHY NOT give a key, is it that a big deal? What is HE afraid of? So you can turn it this way as well!
Posts: 758 | From: Finland | Registered: Jun 2006
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A very simple and plausible explanation is that there is not an extra KEY Most good quality door locks come with a "set amount" of keys which can not be copied. Maybe they don't want to change the lock at this time.
My SIL has 5 sons. Not all of them have keys to the home as there simply are not enough to go around Posts: 3291 | From: I DO believe in Karma! | Registered: Apr 2002
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I think this is also cultural thing. In Finland it is very normal everyone is having their own key, even children (some of them too small I think).
In this case (roqqaya) they might live in a "normal" house but I've seen also those that you need a key to get out from a main gate and in this kind of houses it is a safety issue. Fire or some other emergency.
Posts: 758 | From: Finland | Registered: Jun 2006
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posted
Laura, you jogged my memory then. my ex's sisters didn't have keys. when they came home from work a key would be thrown down to them. only the mother and 2 sons had keys.
Posts: 1248 | From: my sex is on fire!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! | Registered: Aug 2008
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posted
lol, Cloudberry, very good point in return.
My son never had a key to our place, as it was just the two of us, and I didn't trust his father not to use it to get in at some point. His father gave him a key to his place, but I'd never want to step inside when I didn't have to. He wasn't fond of cleaning.
Why isn't Roqqaya posting anymore? Were we too hard with her on the first go around about Egypt males and washing? Posts: 1283 | From: Cairo | Registered: Feb 2006
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quote:Originally posted by cloudberry: I think this is also cultural thing. In Finland it is very normal everyone is having their own key, even children (some of them too small I think).
In this case (roqqaya) they might live in a "normal" house but I've seen also those that you need a key to get out from a main gate and in this kind of houses it is a safety issue. Fire or some other emergency.
no ,it is not normal in Egypt that a fully grown woman does not have keys Posts: 2417 | From: Cairo | Registered: Jun 2009
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posted
I like Loved one and lauras posts. I think its not such a big issue. I'm trying to imagine if I was staying with someone else for a limited time, would I have the right to have a key? I'm not sure, I think it does depend on what the others have said, about going out and needing one.
I think the issue here is the fact she is staying in all the time, or not going out alone. I remember that Roqayya had said she was o.k with doing this, when you posted before. IMO, this is where the trouble is...She has allowed her husband to be demanding over her time and whereabouts, and agreed that she would be o.k to always be with him, someone else or at home...So without being mean, she has made her bed.
If she now wants to move the goal posts, since they have married, then obviously this is going to cause some problems, her husband may not be the type of man that is comfortable with a more independant woman.
I agree with what Laura says, she has to deal with this herself now and decide what kind of relationship she wants, how much independance she wants...there is no such things as 'normal in Egypt' or 'normal in the US' we are all individuals and all make our own rules to what we do/do not find acceptable...She needs to do that herself.
o.k, just re-read my posts...just wanted to add that although I said there is no such thing as 'normal for Egypt' etc. I do think that a huge percentage of Egyptian women are independant and strong willed, and that being passive/submissive is not an 'egyptian' trait. I think that this is a misconception perpetuated by the west about muslim women all over the world. I just think that women in muslim societies have different ways (to western women)of expressing their independance or getting their own way
Sorry for the generalisations but i hope you understand.
Posts: 140 | From: UK | Registered: Aug 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Vesuvius: I like Loved one and lauras posts. I think its not such a big issue. I'm trying to imagine if I was staying with someone else for a limited time, would I have the right to have a key? I'm not sure, I think it does depend on what the others have said, about going out and needing one.
Are you talking about Egypt or in general?
It doesn't depend if you live with someone else's place it depends how you live - do you go out etc.
I lived my mom's place when back home and I would have been in trouble if I had no key. It wouldn't have worked without a key.
It's totally different story if you KNOW there is always someone home and many cases I think there is, in Egypt I mean.
Posts: 758 | From: Finland | Registered: Jun 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Vesuvius: I think the issue here is the fact she is staying in all the time, or not going out alone. I remember that Roqayya had said she was o.k with doing this, when you posted before.
But didn't she plan to study here? Will someone escort her there and home (where ever they live then, MIL's home or their own)? Escort everywhere? Ok, I know some (western) even prefer it that way but... Posts: 758 | From: Finland | Registered: Jun 2006
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posted
I truly don't understand why any woman WANTED to be escorted by a husband or family member in the 21st century! That is so primitive and backwards!!
I understood in the beginning to get used to the new surrounding anyone would appreciate help but later on??
Since Egyptmom's daughter lives as a member in the household she has the right to a key. Not giving her one means literally she has no freedom. Is this the life she chooses to live???
Okay Egyptmom, I was 20 when I came to my guest family in Cairo and I was also 'kept' more or less at home, I didn't knew anyone besides them and felt very isolated. Once I knew they got a membership to a sportsclub I demanded to be able to make use of it and go for visits with the toddler. And they agreed. The husband brought me the first times, observed me like he didn't kinda trust the whole thing but then it was okay. I was just glad to see a clean place, a playground and some green since unfortunately Cairo's street looked quite different.
So your daughter needs to put her foot down and start to demand. If she doesn't do it now, she never will.
Oh and yes I had a key to the apartment of my Egyptian guest family too - even if I was only the nanny.
Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
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posted
I guess I'm becomming less upset about it now. When I first found out that she still didn't have a key, I felt he was treating her as a prisoner or that he didn't trust her. It has been his choice not to give her one not MIL's.
Sometime she is going to need to go out or go home on her own - it is a safety issue. She has no where to go, no home that she can enter without someone with her.
She is feeling very restless and feels she is capable of walking the 2 blocks to the market by herself. She knows a little arabic and even if she doesn't know the name of an item she wants to buy, she can point to it. He tells her she has to wait until she speaks arabic. I wonder if she will ever know enough arabic to go out on her own?
School just never got done. They never made it to the University to check it out and now I believe it has already begun. So I guess it wasn't that important to her.
I know she has to learn to fight her own battles with him so I try to stay out of it as much as possible. That is why I talk you ES'ers.
Thanks for all your comments.
-------------------- Church Lady Posts: 66 | From: USA | Registered: Mar 2009
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posted
When she was asked by her hubby why she needed a key what was her reply?
I don't see the big deal, a key hardly represents power, trust or respect. It is a bloody key. She should put her foot down if it means that much to her.
I know a girl of 29 who is not allowed out without her mother, is not married and is dropped off and collected every day from work by her father, she has no key! This girl is one of my best friends... she sees no issue. She sees this as culture from her Fathers perspective. On the other side of the coin, the streets are strewn with girls of all ages till all hrs. Horses for courses.
I suggest your daughter sits down and sorts this out before the situation worsens.
Why oh why do people marry strangers!!!!!!!!!
Posts: 11097 | From: Cairo | Registered: May 2008
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quote:Originally posted by Egyptmom: She knows a little arabic and even if she doesn't know the name of an item she wants to buy, she can point to it. He tells her she has to wait until she speaks arabic. I wonder if she will ever know enough arabic to go out on her own?
That is the best way for your daughter to learn. Get out and speak the language in addition to take Arabic courses. It's a very difficult language and people study for years and are still not 100% fluent.
quote:Originally posted by Egyptmom: School just never got done. They never made it to the University to check it out and now I believe it has already begun. So I guess it wasn't that important to her.
I am very sad to hear this. She needs an education.
quote:Originally posted by Egyptmom: I know she has to learn to fight her own battles with him so I try to stay out of it as much as possible.
Egyptmom, your daughter is ****** IMHO. Unfortunately I am not living in Cairo but I am sure that some other members - non-males - here would like to get in touch with your daughter and help guiding her through the first difficult months of marriage and living in Egypt.
Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
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quote:Originally posted by EgyptMom: School just never got done. They never made it to the University to check it out and now I believe it has already begun. So I guess it wasn't that important to her.
no,it has not started yet not before 3 october Posts: 2417 | From: Cairo | Registered: Jun 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Dzosser: Originally posted by mylife: dzosser....run man run....
What about that blow job
yes dzosser run for your life , dont let those lips go around your jewels , it might fall off Posts: 9443 | From: USA...... | Registered: Jun 2006
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