quote:Originally posted by The Ministry of Common Sense:
quote:Originally posted by ?????: I think you don't know how hard it is to become a professional balletdancer. It's topsport. You have to dedicate your a certain period in life completely to your passion: ballet. This means training and working under a strict regime, with daily training, diets, etc. This means strong discipline, and mentally and physically hard times, during that whole period of life. It's not just people who love to dance! Besides the long and heavy training they need, besides talent, also a strong personality,with a good mentality. It's very competive!
Professional bellydancing is just a hobby when you have to compare these two forms of dancing. I think the most high classified bellydance academies aren't even in Egypt.
In the whole country of Egypt there seems to be only one professional male bellydancer, that Tito Seif. Look at this interview: http://current.com/items/89217919_male-belly-dancer.htm It IS controversial, but he thinks it's an art, and if people don't like to watch, then they don't have to come and watch.
It is obvious that that it's not a well respected job, while he seems to do very well in his work. He is able to make a living out of it.
Now, for the original poster where it all started about; of course when such a Tito Seiff is able to make a good living out of bellydancing, there will be other men with enough talent and enough selfassurement to try the same. They must have a certain dose of not care about what society may think about them, and then they try to do the same. Better a good imitation as a bad invention! So, they try to do what Tito did. I think not because they love to dance that much, otherwise they would just dance for fun, I think it is just because that Tito earned enough money to raise his financial standard above average.
It has more to do with love for the money as with love for the dance. Personal opinion, sorry. This isn't the Egyptian Billy Elliot!!!!
Of course I know the rigors of being a professional ballet dancer. I used to work for a man in New York whose daughter was a professional ballet dancer. She developed aneroxia as a result of the dieting and pressure to weigh less than 80 pounds. It cost him a fortune to hire dance coaches for her as well as the expensive dance academy schools, etc.
All I'm saying is that it is a matter of cultural acceptance. Because ballet has been recognized and accepted for centuries as an art form, the industry evolved around it thus creating the regime that go along with it - the training and dieting, etc.
Belly dancing is only a "hobby" because it developed in a part of the world that has refused to take it mainstream. If it had gone mainstream centuries ago, there would be a similar training and fitness regime associated with belly dancing as well. If I were going to pay to see a belly dancer (male or female) I certainly would prefer it to be someone who was in great shape who had a bit of a clue that they knew what they were doing. Most of the "professional belly dancing" acadamies that exist in the world are in Western countries (USA, Australia) that have emerged as a result to preserve and promote this cultural practice. Look at all the hype over bollywood dancing that has sprung up as a result of Slumdog Millianaire. People who have dance centers have seen a huge increase in people seeking to take dance lessons in this style for enjoyment, entertainment and fitness.
The people in Egypt, Tito in particular, are also striving to preserve the culture and take belly dancing into a "sport level". However, they are being met with great resistance by the moral majority who are still hung up on provintial notions. Egypt will be lucky if one day it does not end up with dancing banned and "illegal" like in Afghanistan.
When the "break-dancing" fad emerged in the 80's people said it was a passing fancy that would soon fade. But over the years it transformed into the more recent hip-hop style that blended elements of jazz dance and "street" styles. This is big business and "professional" dancers with this style are highly sought after for many things from Broadway shows to dancing for professional sporting events.
So it's like the old argument about what came first the chicken or the egg? Did the profession come first and then become a dance - or did the dance come first and then become a profession?
As also the discussion WHAT can be counted as a sport? As someone who is working in sports, of course I have my own opinion about what can be seen as a sports and what's not. In reply to the sudden raise of the darts-game, the ones who were playing this on professional level, under profesional unions and federations, a number of people likes to call this a sport also, and that's discussable, if you take a look at this sporters. Darts has a competive element, there are matches,there is training, so for some this is enough to call it a sport. If you take a look at the players, and in the time that I duscussed it, there was an Andy Fordham. Andy was famous because of his figure http://www.reddragondarts.com/images/andy_fordham_page.jpg, the enormous amounts of beer he took daily, and of course because of his results in playing darts. And that should be a professional sportsman? He even wasn't able to pick up his dart after it fell on the floor, that fat he was! It is a disgrace for sports in common to call this sport. It's game, nothing more. The defenition of sport ? Nobody can tell this. You could state that there are rules and regulations, there is a referee, and most important, there is a winner. But darts has it all, and I don't think that's a sport...
Posts: 7202 | From: EU | Registered: Nov 2006
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Questionmarks: When I have to explain, it's not funny anymore.
Ok well sorry, but you have to explain. I'm blonde and American so I don't get things easily. In other words I'm still not getting what you mean. Did I change what?
Posts: 1626 | From: whatever, wherever | Registered: Jul 2008
| IP: Logged |
posted
Regarding your nickname, you were representing the ministery of common sense. Because you brought up the wife carrying, tent pichtching etc. in as a counterpart for darts, and you share them all under the name 'sports', I asked if you changed your ministery. Because, but maybe I am wromg in that, 'common sense'indeed does mean healthy thinking, isn't it? So, this sounds boring after I had to explain it...
-------------------- “Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I will meet you there.” Posts: 7202 | From: EU | Registered: Nov 2006
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Questionmarks: Regarding your nickname, you were representing the ministery of common sense. Because you brought up the wife carrying, tent pichtching etc. in as a counterpart for darts, and you share them all under the name 'sports', I asked if you changed your ministery. Because, but maybe I am wromg in that, 'common sense'indeed does mean healthy thinking, isn't it? So, this sounds boring after I had to explain it...
No, no, no. I wasn't saying this is a counterpart for darts...but after talking about things that qualify as sports, I googled unusual sports and came up with that list. Darts was not on it, but those other things were. I never heard of or saw any of them but apparently LF has Aqua Zorba'd or whatever.
So I just thought it was funny some of the things that are being considered sports. Darts included.
Anyway, don't take me so seriously all the time. I live for sarcasm and satire and humor. (That part you can take seriously.)
Now if you'll excuse me - I'm off to do some EXTREME IRONING. Posts: 1626 | From: whatever, wherever | Registered: Jul 2008
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by ?????: From the other side societies change by foreign influences, ExptinCAI. As western society changed under influence from immigrants, perhaps Egypt will change on time, because of their "new Egyptians". There only has to be one thing necesarry: the foreigners in fact have to prove the 'wrong' in the common opinion. If there are enough foreigners, having no problems with marrieng below their own class, and they will be succsful in their relationships, perhaps this might change common opinion. Is this likely? I am afraid not, regarding the high rate of failures. I think the people even will take it as a prove from their being right in this. I know a few cases of marriages below their own class between Egyptians, and they don't have a good relationship. That easily can be taken as the prove that marrieng below their own class is difficult ( and they admit that themselves) but when you atke a look at other relationships, the truth is that there are so many bad relationships there, same class or different class does not matter in that, so what's right and what's wrong? Maybe you can tell me
Nooo idea. I can't really tell classes apart the way Egyptians can. The whole idea of pre-judging people based on small clues about the way they speak, what vernacular they use, etc. is very uncomfortable to wrap one's head around. Especially when you've been taught that a job is a job is a job and honest day of work beats unemployment, etc. What is frustrating is that when you come into the Egyptian culture with this attitude, you feel your view is somehow more *right* than what's the cultural norm. From that high horse, it's easy to call everyone a snob and not realize you are expecting Egyptians to adopt your more "correct" class-less perspective.
Maybe the next generation with gap this bridge, because it sure is a pain!
Posts: 2182 | Registered: Oct 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
I think it only can dissappear when society is 'open' for it. As I understood now it is simply 'who has been born as 5 cts never can be 25 cts'. It's not 'we take the best men for that job' but one out of the 'inner circle'. So, when your family always has been an uneducated factory worker, the children probably might be educated, but they can never reach what similar educated higher classified children will reach. And then you will get the dreadful examples: children out of the higher classes, who never had to work in their life (becuase there was staff in the house, and enough money in daddy's pocket ) have to start their adult life with an appartment from daddy as a gift, a job by daddy's 'friends', as a gesture, and they in fact are having two left hands. They never have learned to work to reach a goal, everything has been served on a golden plate. Of course they are not the best workers a company can get. Perhaps there are thousands of workers who are better, but they are not a part from daddy's circle... Also these families are keeping the country on this level, it's not only the government and the education...
-------------------- “Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I will meet you there.” Posts: 7202 | From: EU | Registered: Nov 2006
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by The Ministry of Common Sense:
quote:Originally posted by Questionmarks: Regarding your nickname, you were representing the ministery of common sense. Because you brought up the wife carrying, tent pichtching etc. in as a counterpart for darts, and you share them all under the name 'sports', I asked if you changed your ministery. Because, but maybe I am wromg in that, 'common sense'indeed does mean healthy thinking, isn't it? So, this sounds boring after I had to explain it...
No, no, no. I wasn't saying this is a counterpart for darts...but after talking about things that qualify as sports, I googled unusual sports and came up with that list. Darts was not on it, but those other things were. I never heard of or saw any of them but apparently LF has Aqua Zorba'd or whatever.
So I just thought it was funny some of the things that are being considered sports. Darts included.
Anyway, don't take me so seriously all the time. I live for sarcasm and satire and humor. (That part you can take seriously.)
Now if you'll excuse me - I'm off to do some EXTREME IRONING.
The ultimate thrill :Bungee ironing Posts: 7202 | From: EU | Registered: Nov 2006
| IP: Logged |
-------------------- “Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I will meet you there.” Posts: 7202 | From: EU | Registered: Nov 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
Hi to all people here! i was reading ur posts and i was realy touched! I am 27 years old girl,live in Croatia,Europe. I work in LeMeridien hotel,didn t finish yet my low school.Anyway,i meet a guy from Cairo on facebook and we talk for months.We become very closed.He was merried and his wife didnt wanted children. After while we get very closed and discover how we have many same interests. We meet and it was love from dream,in all ways we match like we imagine perfect person and there is he! I was there and he was in my country.All his friends and family like me and my family like him. He divorced from his wife and gave her house,money,all,just that can be in peace with me.He make me happy like no one before ever. I am christian and he s muslim.We are so similar in life habbits and all!I t s just incredible! We plan to merrie next year. All people say how that never work but i am gled i hear from some of u here how is possible to be happy with diferent nationality and religion!
posted
Differences in nationality and differences in religion are not the most important in this. What makes a relationship work ( or don't work)is about the personality of the two persons. 'Personality usually refers to the distinctive patterns of behaviour ( including thought and emotions) that characterize each individual's adaption to situations and life'. Genetic and cultural factors play a role, of course, but the most important factor is the personality.
A 27 yr. old young Croatian woman finds a married Egyptian man on Facebook. His wife doesn't want children.
I don't know why the fact that she doesn't want children playes in role in this, but it seems to be at least a bit important.
Almost nobody takes the decision to be the lover of a married man. And then, suddenly, you are such a person! The young mistress and her married lover usually see their relationship as a fun, exciting interlude that can be missed. But that is against the truth! Because, a secret affair develops often fierce.
In each other's arms, the illegal lovers are happier than ever. They create an island of love, far away from reality and daily worries.When the secret lovers really fall in love with each other, they are addicted to each other and they all exhibit symptoms of addicted people. They became each other's obsession.
The lover soon discovers that it should be better to let it go. She is going to feel guilty in relation to the wife of her lover. Nonsense , since he is the one, who is lying and deceiving! Yet the guilt gnaw. Sometimes the lover makes the decision to quit when she notes that her feelings are so very strongly. But it is very difficult.
Actually they want it all. She starts to blame him: Does he really love her so much as he says? Why is he still with his wife, then?
She wants to introduce him to her family, take him with her on birthday visits, share a normal life with him. It starts to hurt. She has enough of being in second position!
For the bound man, the situation is not as fun and free anymore. He has himself entangled in a web of lies. Big chance that his wife now smells that something is wrong. She is suspicious, asks: "You still love me?" He doesn't know what to do. He misses his girlfriend but it all makes him difficult. She wants no more to the second place and being the woman behind the scenes.
He has to choose! He prefered not to do that. He cannot leave his wife, but also doesn't want to lose his lover. What now?
Most men don't intentionally keep hold their mistresses on a string. They really think about it when they should go away from their wives ,but they hang in their consideration process. How about the appartment? How about the money? He will be a bogeyman in the eyes of his family and friends. Should he really have a future with his girlfriend?
Since you see married lover not much, you are going to sentimentalize him. Isn't he nice and funny and how well he listens to me? He understands you completely, even without words ..... You see him as your prince on the white horse and the time to discover that he does not conform to your vision, is missing. Striking many mistresses believe that their lover 'is true'. Sometimes it's actually true. But often not.
Your loved chosed for you. But there still is a sour taste because of the circumstances. You do not feel guilty because you ruined a marriage. You payed off that debt with money. He is all yours now and you are starting a new life.
By the way, who says that your loved one will not cheat again? He did it already before?
Remember that feeling in love can just happen, but that a commitment is a choice. Keep your head cool and consider the possible consequences.
I don't feel well about this, and in my opinion something good cannot be build on something what started as bad....
I guess you don't like to hear all this, but think about it...
Posts: 7202 | From: EU | Registered: Nov 2006
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by croatia: Hi to all people here! i was reading ur posts and i was realy touched! I am 27 years old girl,live in Croatia,Europe. I work in LeMeridien hotel,didn t finish yet my low school.Anyway,i meet a guy from Cairo on facebook and we talk for months.We become very closed.He was merried and his wife didnt wanted children. After while we get very closed and discover how we have many same interests. We meet and it was love from dream,in all ways we match like we imagine perfect person and there is he! I was there and he was in my country.All his friends and family like me and my family like him. He divorced from his wife and gave her house,money,all,just that can be in peace with me.He make me happy like no one before ever. I am christian and he s muslim.We are so similar in life habbits and all!I t s just incredible! We plan to merrie next year. All people say how that never work but i am gled i hear from some of u here how is possible to be happy with diferent nationality and religion!
Congratulations I hope his wife will be happier than both of you.
Posts: 431 | From: England | Registered: Dec 2008
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by croatia: He was merried and his wife didnt wanted children.
Huhhh that's the first time I hear that an Egyptian woman doesn't want any children. But I heard of others who had problems to conceive and were divorced because of that reason (and not always it was the woman's *fault*)!!
Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Tigerlily: Huhhh that's the first time I hear that an Egyptian woman doesn't want any children.
They do exist.
Hm just to remind you - you are NOT Egyptian!!
Well I am sure there are several out BUT sooner or later they will give up to family pressure from both sides.
Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
An Egyptian man once told me that by Islam, it is the right of the man to have children, even if a woman doesn't want to have them (yet) I asked to be more exact in this, because, when o woman doesn't want children, how is he going to force her? Rape? Hide her birth-prevention? Is it allowed by Islam to force a woman to have children or is it a reason to ask for divorce? He didn't explain any further because he already mentioned that he stepped on my toe by saying this.
In my opinion it is searching for a reason and finding it by their religion. If there are any rights given by the religion, he should respect all rights, not only the one who seems to suit him at that moment. It is to easy...
-------------------- “Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I will meet you there.” Posts: 7202 | From: EU | Registered: Nov 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
QM im not surprised he didnt explain any further and hes stepped on more than your toes.
Islam does NOT give a man automatic right to have children nor is it grounds for divorce, although they will and do say it is. there is nothing in Quran to state that and if they rely on hadith or the example of the prophet only one of all his wives gave him children, he didnt divorce any of the rest for not producing any.
in the same category, Egyptian men are NOT the greatest 'power' and Gods gift to women, which is another thing they have a habbit of believing
-------------------- If you don't learn from your mistakes, there's no sense making them. Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Tigerlily: Huhhh that's the first time I hear that an Egyptian woman doesn't want any children.
They do exist.
Hm just to remind you - you are NOT Egyptian!!
does one have to be Egyptian to know that some Egyptian women dont want, or choose not to have children? I am not Egyptian either but I do know that they do exist.
Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
His poor wife. Just wait until he finds some flaw with you and moves on just like he did with her. Oh wait, let me goes, your relationship is different, lol. Out of curiosity- what kind of "woman" continues to talk and then meet with a married man? No matter what he says about his wife???? Is it just me, or when a man says he is married, you say: "Nice knowing you", and move on.
Posts: 2573 | From: England | Registered: Jun 2008
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Tigerlily: just to remind you - you are NOT Egyptian!!
Oh thanks -- I forgot!
quote:Originally posted by Tigerlily: Well I am sure there are several out BUT sooner or later they will give up to family pressure from both sides.
Believe it or not, there are also Egyptian men who don't want children.
quote:Originally posted by weirdkitty: Out of curiosity- what kind of "woman" continues to talk and then meet with a married man? No matter what he says about his wife????
I'm wondering too ...
Posts: 2803 | Registered: Feb 2007
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by weirdkitty: His poor wife. Just wait until he finds some flaw with you and moves on just like he did with her. Oh wait, let me goes, your relationship is different, lol. Out of curiosity- what kind of "woman" continues to talk and then meet with a married man? No matter what he says about his wife???? Is it just me, or when a man says he is married, you say: "Nice knowing you", and move on.
its not just you WK but it does seem that when it comes to Egyptians some foreign women think its ok to have a go at another womans husband coz 'he's allowed 4' makes you wonder if being the other woman is a habit they also have in thier own countries.
oopps forgot, shes not the other woman as the muslim man can at least marry her Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by croatia: Hi to all people here! i was reading ur posts and i was realy touched! I am 27 years old girl,live in Croatia,Europe. I work in LeMeridien hotel,didn t finish yet my low school.Anyway,i meet a guy from Cairo on facebook and we talk for months.We become very closed.He was merried and his wife didnt wanted children. After while we get very closed and discover how we have many same interests. We meet and it was love from dream,in all ways we match like we imagine perfect person and there is he! I was there and he was in my country.All his friends and family like me and my family like him. He divorced from his wife and gave her house,money,all,just that can be in peace with me.He make me happy like no one before ever. I am christian and he s muslim.We are so similar in life habbits and all!I t s just incredible! We plan to merrie next year. All people say how that never work but i am gled i hear from some of u here how is possible to be happy with diferent nationality and religion!
Is her man telling the truth about his wife not wanting to have children and that he divorced her or is he like this husband in another post?
In his letters to the other woman, he has called his wife every nasty name in the book and has completely lied about the fact that they still live together and continue to have intimate relations. The husband gets out of their marital bed and goes into the next room to chat with the other woman while his wife sobs.
She confronted her husband about saying such terrible things about her and he told her "that's just the way it's done" when you're involved with another woman. The other woman expects to hear bad things about the wife and gets suspicious if he doesn't say them.
posted
There are also Egyptian women thinking it's okay to have a go at another woman's man, and showing no personal objections to make that clear to her, even to their children. Can you imagine that ?????
The common reaction of almost all betrayed partners is, getting angry at the third party, while their husband/wife is the one who already is married, and in fact is the betrayer.
But also, I think, it's important is the one who started it. ONE of the two 'friends' has taken the first step to get more intimate as he/she should. It can be the man ( and I believe, most of the time it is the man) declaring his love to her, making her feel special, make her feel sorry for his situation, searching for excuses in what he is doing. And then he gets stuck in his lies, and he takes her with him.
Why are people doing this? I think most of the time the real reason is always a selfish reason. Almost nobody intentionally will destroy an excisting relationship, and I think most people will feel guilty when they are in such a position, unless they have a personality-disorder.
They are searching for reasons to justify their behaviour, but in fact when somebody is at the point of stepping into a relationship while they are still married to somebody else, has to be honest and end the current relationship first.
-------------------- “Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I will meet you there.” Posts: 7202 | From: EU | Registered: Nov 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
QM, yes there are Egyptian women in this position but the difference is it is more 'acceptable' (for want of a better word) to them, they are raised in a culture that accepts polygamy, westerners are not, it would be unacceptable in the westerners culture.
regarding the married person ending the current relationship first before starting another one, again thats this guys culture not to have to end his current relationship but its hers, hence he claims to now be divorced.
-------------------- If you don't learn from your mistakes, there's no sense making them. Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Sure, she thinks she has solved the problem as it should be solved: pocketmoney and an appartment. Well, we don't know more as the story from only one side, and perhaps even this isn't true. I won't be surprised when the divorce just is brought up to ease her guilty mind, a fake one. She doesn't have the possibilities to see if this is true, she is in Croatia...
-------------------- “Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I will meet you there.” Posts: 7202 | From: EU | Registered: Nov 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
She says she is a Christian- so, what does the bible say about getting "very close" and going over to see a married man? Also, he is Muslim- now I know a muslim man can have more than one wife, but an affair? Seems they are both failing their religions here.
I just see it as one to the ultimate selfish acts. The only thing a mistress (or whatever you call a male in that situation) think about is themselves, their wants and desires. That is what I can never get my head around. You have to completely lack empathy to have an affair. I would always think: "what if I was the wife"... but then, so many times you have mistresses say: Oh, it wouldn't happen to me because I know how to treat my man/our relationship is true love”, and all the over naive crap. So yes, relationships CAN work with different religions and cultures, however, comments here have been about to single people. Add a wedding ring on the finger, and it's a totally different ball game, one I would personally never lower myself to play.
-------------------- Another one.... Posts: 2573 | From: England | Registered: Jun 2008
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by theotherside: Is her man telling the truth about his wife not wanting to have children and that he divorced her
Exactly that's what I was thinking too. He can tell her ANYTHING about his (ex-)wife and put her into a bad light to suit his own needs. It sounds like croatia is still in the romantic phase of their relationship and she believes quite naively everything what he tells her.
Croatia, you should be very careful ín planning to marry this man. Remember what he did to his first wife (if he left and divorced her then for you) - he can do it also to you.
Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Tigerlily: Huhhh that's the first time I hear that an Egyptian woman doesn't want any children.
They do exist.
Hm just to remind you - you are NOT Egyptian!!
does one have to be Egyptian to know that some Egyptian women dont want, or choose not to have children? I am not Egyptian either but I do know that they do exist.
Well Dalia is one of the many Germans who don't want kids and I think she got my comment.
Still in Egypt I believe it's a very very small number who elects not to have any children. Again demands from both families are sooner or later forcing a couple to have children.
Egyptians are still very traditional when it comes to marriage and children - and I am very happy about it. Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
So the comment was just a dig at Dalia for being a German who didnt want kids?
Yes it may be a small number of Egyptians who do not want kids but it is still a number. Not all Egyptians have demanding families either and not all Egyptians are driven by their family demands or have families interferring in how a couple want to run their lives, yes it may be a small number but it is still a number.
-------------------- If you don't learn from your mistakes, there's no sense making them. Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
| IP: Logged |
-------------------- “Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I will meet you there.” Posts: 7202 | From: EU | Registered: Nov 2006
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Ayisha: So the comment was just a dig at Dalia for being a German who didnt want kids?
Ah nice, I can't throw a comment out but she can. Few weeks she had not only one dig but several at me incl. that I would *spit kids out*.
You hear and here now..... if I didn't have previous c-sections I would have more kids.
Kids rule.... fcuk self-centered people! If everyone would think like that - ah well you can assume the rest!!
Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
oh you mean that thread where you FIRST attacked someone's choices in life completely out of the blue?
yeah, how dare someone say anything negative about your life in defense.
some people think not having children is selfish. others think overpopulating the planet and having four is selfish. it's a matter of perspective.
Posts: 2182 | Registered: Oct 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
TL, I didnt say you cant throw a comment I just didnt understand where it had come from that's all.
yes kids are great, I had 3, grandkids are even better! But not everyone is the same and it doesnt mean they are self centred if they dont want any kids. Some people look how the world is and dont want to raise any children in a world filled with inequality and wars, famine and death, and some may not have found a partner they want to raise kids with. Some people may not be able to have kids so it is unfair to assume anyone without kids is self centred.
-------------------- If you don't learn from your mistakes, there's no sense making them. Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Very few of my friends have children. Two have partners who didn't want any. They had thechoice of walking away and finding partners who did but chose ther partners they have. Another friend and her husband had a course of IVF which failed. They then sat down and discussed whether they wanted to spend years and more courses of IVF which could result in a strained marriage and an empty bank account or get on with their lives. They chose the latter and have a very happy and fulfilled marriage. I think it is a shame that couples who don't have children are somehow pitied and their marriage seen as empty and wasted because of it when that is clearly not the case.
Posts: 4476 | From: Scotland | Registered: Mar 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
Agreed, YAH. Some people can't have children, some don't want kids, some ... just happened not to have any (myself ) - it's not always being self-centred.
Posts: 2807 | From: Europe | Registered: Nov 2007
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Ayisha: So the comment was just a dig at Dalia for being a German who didnt want kids?
You got it.
quote:Originally posted by Ayisha: Yes it may be a small number of Egyptians who do not want kids but it is still a number. Not all Egyptians have demanding families either and not all Egyptians are driven by their family demands or have families interferring in how a couple want to run their lives, yes it may be a small number but it is still a number.
Thanks. That was my point.
Posts: 2803 | Registered: Feb 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
It is not selfish if you do not want children. I never quite understood this. All parents are not unselfish people as this above saying would indicate, you don't have to look far when you see this - lots of children live in misery because their parents do not take care of them properly and probably should never have had kids. THEY are selfish. If you know you don't want to or can't take care of kids, it is not selfish, just the opposite.
It's nice Egyptians love children but the fact is this country can't take those 120 million people that are estimated to inhabit this country after few decades. And loving children, sometimes I wonder if this truly is the case, too many street children and other problems I have seen here in this short time I have lived here. Sometimes I think some people have lots of kids just because they will support elderly parents later on etc. Or if they only have daughters they must have also a boy. Doesn't sound very loving to me.
Sorry, one of these days again.
Posts: 758 | From: Finland | Registered: Jun 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
Not every woman has that maternal instinct. Some women do not want children, not because they are selfish, but simply because they just don't want them. What would be wrong, is having children just to go with the norm, despite your own personal feelings on the matter. Some people want loads of children, some only a few, some just the one, and some none. Nothing to do with how selfish you are, it is just to do with personal preference.
Posts: 2573 | From: England | Registered: Jun 2008
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Tigerlily: Ah nice, I can't throw a comment out but she can. Few weeks she had not only one dig but several at me incl. that I would *spit kids out*.
Quit the victim pose. You attacked me out of the blue and without the slightest reason before, getting extremely nasty. My few digs at you were tame in comparison.
Regarding selfishness and children ... this is such a lame argument. People don't have kids because they are so altruistic, they have kids simply because they WANT to, because they think kids are cute, give their life meaning or whatever. That can also be very selfish. Posts: 2803 | Registered: Feb 2007
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Tigerlily: Croatia, you should be very careful ín planning to marry this man. Remember what he did to his first wife (if he left and divorced her then for you) - he can do it also to you.
TL, you say this like she is an innocent victim, she isn't. She has entered into a relationship with a man who is already married...Who's to say that SHE wont do that again when they are married?
This isn't about religion, its about selfishness, treat others how you want to be treated.
Would ANYONE want their spouse to be seeing someone else behind their back...I highly doubt it. Those that use religion to justify this are just fooling themselves and are selfish.
In addition, yes these things happen, people fall in love and people make mistakes. What annoyed me mostly about this post was that Croatia appears completely oblivious to this other woman's feelings...I mean, It might help if she felt just a little be guilty!!!
Posts: 431 | From: England | Registered: Dec 2008
| IP: Logged |
posted
Religion justifies them to "buy off" feelings of guilt. In the Middle-ages the RC church even sold documents where they could enter heaven, no matter how bad they lived. Now it is bought by prayers, just as Islam is doing. It is not allowed to act like this in both religions, but at the same time they offer solutions for sinners. In money, in prayers, in religious visits to holy places. Pray, pay and everything will be forgiven... Posts: 7202 | From: EU | Registered: Nov 2006
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Ayisha: QM, yes there are Egyptian women in this position but the difference is it is more 'acceptable' (for want of a better word) to them, they are raised in a culture that accepts polygamy, westerners are not, it would be unacceptable in the westerners culture.
I'm confused on this one hun, Is that so?? Because i haven't seen any Egyptian Young women/girls who are allowing their fiance's/potential husband a right to have another wife.... Even though it is permitted within Islam i'm not aware of any woman being ok with this?
This is 2 questions i would like answered...Plz
Do any of you women here, know Egyptian women who are ok with their husband having more than 1 wife?? Do u reckon some young Egyptian Fiancee's are allowing their future husbands to wed Foreign women to better their future lives together?? With of course plans of divorcing this foreigner later......
Posts: 634 | From: the Moon........... | Registered: Mar 2007
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by ExptinCAI: oh you mean that thread where you FIRST attacked someone's choices in life completely out of the blue?
yeah, how dare someone say anything negative about your life in defense.
some people think not having children is selfish. others think overpopulating the planet and having four is selfish. it's a matter of perspective.
Oh so it's okay if she attacks someone and the threat wasn't even about her but since people started critizing my opinion - she just joined happily the bandwagon (oh and I just remember you did too and now you are back again)???
And strangely you never particpate in discussions on this forum unless you throw a spike at someone.
Btw four children won't overpopulate Germany - infact my country needs much more children, too many Dalias like her around here unfortunately (but how would you know). If people elect more and more not to have children the sense for family wil get lost.
And I take it that you don't have kids either. Well perhaps you change your mind in the future. A 66-year-old British woman just did so
Some people realize later in life that money and other things in life are not as important as having a family.
Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
| IP: Logged |
UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Confused]](confused.gif)
![[Frown]](frown.gif)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
Printer-friendly view of this topic