posted
Sources have told me that my Egyptian man is married with kids. The news was devastating but came from a contact within the same organization.
I have not approached him with the information I have but I have questioned him many times on his marital status and he insist that he is divorced with no kids.
I know the right thing to do is to stop all communication right now but I think that I am falling for this man.
He has brought up the marriage word and would like to see this relationship through and has even talked about having kids. While I am aware that this is total bullshit, somehow my heart wants to give him the benefit of the doubt.
My questions are: 1. What kind of rights does a second wife have? I want to know what is in stored for me in the worst case scenario.
2. Can a second wife have a legitimate marriage too and not an ORFI?
quote:Originally posted by angelofsweetness: Sources have told me that my Egyptian man is married with kids. The news was devastating but came from a contact within the same organization.
I have not approached him with the information I have but I have questioned him many times on his marital status and he insist that he is divorced with no kids.
I know the right thing to do is to stop all communication right now but I think that I am falling for this man.
He has brought up the marriage word and would like to see this relationship through and has even talked about having kids. While I am aware that this is total bullshit, somehow my heart wants to give him the benefit of the doubt.
My questions are: 1. What kind of rights does a second wife have? I want to know what is in stored for me in the worst case scenario.
2. Can a second wife have a legitimate marriage too and not an ORFI?
Honey if he is lying about being married and having kids you do not absolutely do not want to get further involved with him, if he is doing this then it is only a matter of time before you become old news to him and he starts looking for his next wife,, 4 are allowed. As far as i know all wives have equal status in the marriages and i am not sure about the legal marriage thing instead of orfi
Posts: 2410 | From: Indiana, USA | Registered: Mar 2005
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If you’re talking about legally enforceable rights and you are in the States you will have none, as it would be an illegal marriage, and if he tried to marry you through the legal system in the States he would be thrown out for bigamy. What usually happens is that they suggest an “Islamic marriage” (i.e. according to rules of Islam, but not registered, but without the intention to treat you as an equal and full wife) and they will tell you that they cannot support you to the same level as their wife, so would you mind working and paying for the rent. And if their wife is in the States too they will come and see you when they can, and at the first sign of trouble they will divorce you. So basically you would be treated like a mistress, but not be so free to leave the relationship.
If he is serious about you and he brings you to Egypt to marry you can do it legally, then technically as a second wife you would have the same rights as his other wife to his time, to be supported to the same financial level as she was (excluding any money given for children as that is separate), and to be housed in the same quality of accommodation as she is. However is he married you legally his first wife would be informed by the authorities and she then has the right to ask for a divorce and all that was stipulated in the marriage contract. This could be more money than he is able to pay, as the wives usually stipulate a very high amount to stop their husbands thinking about doing exactly this. So he will either drop you or be unable to give you your rightful financial support. Egyptian wives also fight very hard to stop him doing it if they find out about it, because if a husband takes another wife socially it reflects very badly on the first wife as it is seen to be sign that there is something wrong with her marriage.
If he is actually married and has lied about it to you so far and hasn't told his wife about you the scenario could be even worse, if you let him he could keep you hanging on forever with sweet words and promises, until someone else comes along. And if he can lie about this, what else is he lying about.
However, before you get into all of that teh first thing I would suggest you to do is ask the person who told you that he is married for evidence. It is not unknown for information like this to be untrue. And if it is true, whether you are falling for him or not, I would suggest that you get out quick, no matter how painful…do you really seriously want to consider being married to a liar?
quote:Originally posted by angelofsweetness: Sources have told me that my Egyptian man is married with kids. The news was devastating but came from a contact within the same organization.
I have not approached him with the information I have but I have questioned him many times on his marital status and he insist that he is divorced with no kids.
I know the right thing to do is to stop all communication right now but I think that I am falling for this man.
He has brought up the marriage word and would like to see this relationship through and has even talked about having kids. While I am aware that this is total bullshit, somehow my heart wants to give him the benefit of the doubt.
My questions are: 1. What kind of rights does a second wife have? I want to know what is in stored for me in the worst case scenario.
2. Can a second wife have a legitimate marriage too and not an ORFI?
i also noticed that you have already posted here on this man before expressing some doubts and confusion on whether or not he is true, you can never really know until you talk to others that also know him but given he is 40 i would be careful about it because maybe he is simply looking for a younger wife to replace his older wife... in a sexual manner.
Posts: 2410 | From: Indiana, USA | Registered: Mar 2005
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posted
Thanks MysticHeart and Newcomer for your feedbacks.
For your information, I am not a westerner. I am actually from Asia and I met this man while he was on a business trip to my country.
My sources are not direct contacts of mine but are from a good friend instead. This source has pleaded to remain anonymous as it may jeopardise her husband's position in the company. Hence all investigation will have to stop here.
I guess that I am a sucker for all his sweet talking. He is very charismatic and charming so much so I am almost blinded and deaf to the fact that he may be one big fat liar.
I would really like to believe him... believe that he is sincere and all.
My next questions are:
1. Why would a respectable and intelligent man put in much effort, time and money to woo a woman who is thousands of miles apart?
2. We have not had any intimacy, is this worth his effort? I am sure that there are more available woman where he is now. Or maybe he is trying so hard because we have yet to sleep together?
3. If he is married, why would he invite me to visit him in his home country with all expenses covered?
Yes, I have been doubtful since the start of this courtship. Especially since he was already saying the "I Love You" word about 2 weeks after we met.
But unfortunately the problem is that women tend to have a softer spot for love and can sometimes be easily manipulated by a suave man.
Despite how conscious I am about the complications/problems here, I would still very much like to believe that he is my prince charming. And that everything i heard is untrue.
would anyone in their right frame of mind take the risk to give this relationship a chance?
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i also noticed that you have already posted here on this man before expressing some doubts and confusion on whether or not he is true, you can never really know until you talk to others that also know him but given he is 40 i would be careful about it because maybe he is simply looking for a younger wife to replace his older wife... in a sexual manner.
If there is one principle in life that i believe in and practise, it is never to be a third party in someone's relationship.
There are just so many maybes and I dont know for sure if there is any truth to what have been disclosed about him. Is there someway that I can find out?
When I question him about his marital status, he reassures me that he is not married and wish that there is someway for him to prove it to me. He begged me to give him time to show his sincerity and genuineness.
When I ask about the rights of a second wife... I just want to imagine the worst case scenario... i know that this is unfair to his wife (if there really is one). If there is a way to investigate further, i would. And if i find out that there is a wife now, I will pull out and tell him to never contact me again. But I cannot say the same if this surfaces later when I may have gone deeper into the relationship.
[This message has been edited by angelofsweetness (edited 05 July 2005).]
posted
Do you go on web cam with him at all. If so with out any warning ask him to show you his identity card both front and back. If you look at my post here http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/Forum3/HTML/000861.html I have given a link to a photo of the reverse of two Egyptian id cards one married one not. Make a not of the postion of the the marital status. If your man's begins with a circle (arabic M or meen) then he is married. If it begins with a straight line (Arabic A alef) then he is single.
Regarding being a second wife, it only works if there is total honesty, trust and respect between all three parties.
You already starting out with distrust and if he is married dishonesty would either of his wives be able to respect him under those circumstances. Would you be able to tolerate him being at the beck and call of his other wife and children. Some women can but you need to think about it long and hard.
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Thanks Askhar for the tip! Really good info! Although it may not be totally accurate but it can be some sort of indication.
I do not go on web cam with him as our hours are way off... I am 6 hours ahead and the only time we chat online is when we are both at work. He usually calls me on my mobile during my evenings after work.
However, I will try to see his Identity Card when he visits me here... which is in the next 2 months or so.
But if he is divorced as he says he is, will his card be updated?
I know that it is unhealthy to start a relationship on a bad note from the start... but we are only at the courting stage so I need to make sure that the coast is clear before proceeding further. He has made left quite a good on me hence I am not ready to let him go without verifying the truth first.
[This message has been edited by angelofsweetness (edited 05 July 2005).]
quote:Originally posted by angelofsweetness: Penny,
If there is one principle in life that i believe in and practise, it is never to be a third party in someone's relationship.
There are just so many maybes and I dont know for sure if there is any truth to what have been disclosed about him. Is there someway that I can find out?
The ID card is a good start but it may not have been updated if he is divorced. I do feel for you with the doubts but there is no sure way to find out unless you have both his and his wife's full names and then you would need someone to check if a divorce had been filed.
What about phone calls are you able to freely phone him at any time, are there times when he doesn't answer you, can you phone him around bed time?
I think you are in a horrible catch 22 situation if you cannot trust the source of this information. Believe me some people do try to interfere in ways that are hard to understand. Some say only believe what you see with your own eyes but that still leaves the doubt in your mind.
Maybe you just have to wait until you are together and tell him what you were told and try to judge his reaction. If he is a really good liar though he will come up with something to make you beleive him and if you really want to you will.
The only answer then is to ask to see a copy of his divorce papers. If he wants to make you feel safe he will show you if not he will be clever and ask why you do not trust him and turn things around on you.
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Sigh... why are relationships so difficult these days.
I have tried calling him on his mobile once but i could not get through. I think that the mobile interconnection link is very poor between our countries...
He has also has to try many times before he can put calls through to me. And because of the time difference, there is little opportunity for me to call him during his bedtime.
You ladies should set up a private investigation business in Egypt to help all the poor lost souls (like me) to look into cases such as this.
the way we are brought up in Asia is very different from the western ways. we are brought up ina very conservative manner and always warned that danger can be lurking everywhere.
that is why i have always been very careful all my life and especially now since this is a foreigner and is allowed to have more than 4 wives legally at one time.
I do agree that my instincts are usually right. i guess that it is the way he makes me feel that is making me reluctant to let this go...
I am also from Asia now marired to Egyptian, living in Cairo.
I totally understand what you are going through.... Your mind tells you one thing and your heart tells you another.
Beleive me, even he is divorced and you legally marry him in the future, life is complicated already. I have no objection with divorced people cause what ever the reason, divorced people also have the same rights like anyone to find a partner to love.
Like any marriage, there are ups and down and you wont hear those sweet talks that you got use to as often as now. Dating someone is totally different from being married to someone....
What if he decides to live with his kids with you? Though he may love you, his priority will always be for his kids.
You seem to know what you are doing and know what to expect. Be honest to him and to yourself. If he can't be honest with you, you MUST forget him. Remember, Live is a cruel teacher... examine us first then teaches us a lesson.....
Take care Sora
Posts: 181 | From: By the River Nile - Cairo | Registered: Jun 2005
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well... i guess that i will have to get the facts verified first before this relationship proceeds further.
i know that things will not be smooth sailing even if he is not married or if he is divorced and if he has or does not have any kids.
culture is another thing to worry about and like they say, marrying an egyptian means marrying the entire family as well. another problem is that i am not a muslim...
he just called. says that he is happy that i am concern about his marital status... believes that this is a good start as it shows that i am looking seriously into this relationship... which havent even begun.
one question which no one has answered...
* If he is married, why would he invite me to visit him in his home country with all expenses covered? especially since he is from Cairo...? Wouldnt he be afraid that his family might find out? How big is Cairo anyway? I am sure people will see us together?
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Angelofsweetness, Cairo is close to 20 million people. You could not hide out at all and not see a person he knows. I take it you've never been to Cairo? All expenses paid? What kind of motel will he be setting you up in? The big question, will you meet his family? I have to say, it sounds like he's lying to you. Be on your guard. Oh yes, and pay for yourself. Don't go to Egypt without 2 pennies to rub together depending on this man to pay your way. That way if things don't add up, you're not indebted to anyone. Just please be careful and listen to your head. I hope it all works out for you!
Posts: 1063 | From: Oregon | Registered: Jun 2005
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It would be in your best interest to check it out . If he is truly divorced he is required to register the divorce. Civil Status Registration Department in Cairo.
Also contact Ministry of Justice, or Egyptian Ministry of Foreign Affairs. Visit on website Egytian Embassy.
Many times divorce papers are fraudulent, and the divorce of course was never registered. Sometimes they do not inform the egyptian wife when they marry again , especially from someone out of the country. Sometimes they have an agreement ( money wise), between the husband and wife,she puts up with it, in a lot of cases the egyptian wife left alone with the children while he travels, visits her periodically, but sends the money regularly to her in egypt. It is quite a big problem here in the states with this, many fraud cases being uncovered. Egytian men having a wife overseas and marrying an american woman also. It is illegal here and also not fair to both of the women.
According to Islam a man must notify the current wife, if he desires to have another wife. A lot of cases they do not. But in America we do not recognize this type of arrangement, it is considered illegal. My opinion be honest,"these men can't have their cake and eat it to" Thank God many are being deported over this, and marriages annuled here, because technically the marriage was never valid. Many broken hearts on both sides, which is very unfortunate.
Hi Alana, nice to hear from you and yes unfortuneately i am back in the states... sigh..... lool but happily i will return to egypt in january for a month once again,, Thank you for your compliment if you want my email address or my messenger contacts let me know and i will give them to you , its always nice to have new friends..
angelofsweetness. you asked if he was married why would he invite you to egypt with all expenses paid.. thats easy, you will not stay in his home he will put you up in a hotel so his wife would not know about you, also it is so common for men to be out of the home there that she would not question where he had been or who he was with so his inviting you to egypt is not a way of knowing if he is married or not. Many married men invite women and pay for everything and their wives never know and neither do the women they invite, ask for the divorce papers... explain someone but someone you cant say who said he was married and you would like to know for sure that he is not. I dont see any other way. yes we women tend to feel much deeper and fall easier and you sound just like i used to, you want to believe the good in everyone too bad that usually leads to a very huge amount of hurt it did for me. If it were me i would not go any further in the relation until every thing is cleared up. I had someone that sweet talked and convinced me of his every word.. i believed him so totally and trusted him more than i have ever trusted, ......he lied..
[This message has been edited by mysticheart (edited 05 July 2005).]
Posts: 2410 | From: Indiana, USA | Registered: Mar 2005
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KeepinItReal : He was planning to put me up at the Grand Hyatt but I have refused his offer and have asked him to come to my home country instead. At the moment, I am not comfortable enough to go to his territory.
Alana : How do I check with the Ministry of Justice? I only have his full name and I am sure that there must be hundreds of people with the same name there....
Yes... I must figure a way to ask to see some kind of proof of the divorce when he comes over, which is soon... I am not surprise that he never offered to show the divorce papers when i was doubtful about the matter. Next time when he asks me again why wont I believe him, I'll ask him for proof!
I am so sorry to hear that, I hope you will bounce right back ,and the pain will cease from your heart. It is terrible when we are lied to, especially when you put your heart and soul out there. I wish you the best! Feel free to leave your e-mail, and instant messenger. I will contact you Take Care
I am so sorry to hear that, I hope you will bounce right back ,and the pain will cease from your heart. It is terrible when we are lied to, especially when you put your heart and soul out there. I wish you the best! Feel free to leave your e-mail, and instant messenger. I will contact you Take Care
Hi alana, I am doing fine, the one i spoke of is not the one i am currently involved with so I am ok. Though the one that put my through all of that is still sms me and telling me how he loves me and has changed and knows he was bad to me and that i am so good.Wants me to come and get married for real this time lool... i wonder how stupid he thinks i am>> maybe he means it maybe he doesnt but i am too afraid to find out. you can reach me at mysticalserenity4@yahoo.com or hotmail.com i have both messengers...
Posts: 2410 | From: Indiana, USA | Registered: Mar 2005
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I am so glad.....I thought it was the person you are involved with now. Thank God!
What is that old saying "when they lose a good thing they always want it back later"?? Life is scary at times and confusing, throws so much at us. But I always believe God won't put to much on our plate, and if it becomes to heavy, just pray, he will carry us through it, even though it can mentally and physically tire us. I will be in touch soon. God Bless
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I am so glad I found this forum. I am sad too. I have been involved (first online and then met him in Egypt)for almost 2 years with an Egyptian man. We are both in our 50's so I should know better...but he's so charming and romantic and constantly telling me he loves me and such bs....I realize that all this talk about him coming to usa and the fact that his wife will divorce him and he will marry me is all just crap. I am going to end up heartbroken for sure..and I was planning another trip there in November..now I'm not sure...his wife will never leave him and he will never leave her..and I sure as hell ain't sharing any more! Thank God for this forum..I've learned a lot!
Posts: 2 | From: Cumming, Georgia USA | Registered: Jul 2005
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quote:Originally posted by SherryH: I am so glad I found this forum. I am sad too. I have been involved (first online and then met him in Egypt)for almost 2 years with an Egyptian man. We are both in our 50's so I should know better...but he's so charming and romantic and constantly telling me he loves me and such bs....I realize that all this talk about him coming to usa and the fact that his wife will divorce him and he will marry me is all just crap. I am going to end up heartbroken for sure..and I was planning another trip there in November..now I'm not sure...his wife will never leave him and he will never leave her..and I sure as hell ain't sharing any more! Thank God for this forum..I've learned a lot!
oh dear.... I am in my 50s too but instead at being on the beginning of a relationship ..I have been married to mine for years n years.... we go through this when we are young why in the name of mercy are you putting yourself through it now... now is the time you should be going on vacation enjoying your time...not getting tied up in heartache...i wonder also why it is that girls get so mixed up with married egyptian men... and then find that they are doubting them and not sure if tey are loved... now listen... first of all when you met the guy.. did he open up and tell you~hey Im married~ and hey I have kids or did you just fall into this relationship and then start to think about it.. I am totaly lost... god forbid if I were to meet another man my first thought would be for my husband and kids.. surely he cant forget his family so easily if he does then be sure you wil be forgotten as soon as the next female falls into his lap..that goes for both ladies on here...hy is it so easy to jump into a relationship and THEN ask questions... think first act later to save yourselves a lot of hearaches...
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[QUOTE]oh dear.... I am in my 50s too but instead at being on the beginning of a relationship ..I have been married to mine for years n years.... we go through this when we are young why in the name of mercy are you putting yourself through it now... now is the time you should be going on vacation enjoying your time...not getting tied up in heartache...i wonder also why it is that girls get so mixed up with married egyptian men... and then find that they are doubting them and not sure if tey are loved... now listen... first of all when you met the guy.. did he open up and tell you~hey Im married~ and hey I have kids or did you just fall into this relationship and then start to think about it.. I am totaly lost... god forbid if I were to meet another man my first thought would be for my husband and kids.. surely he cant forget his family so easily if he does then be sure you wil be forgotten as soon as the next female falls into his lap..that goes for both ladies on here...hy is it so easy to jump into a relationship and THEN ask questions... think first act later to save yourselves a lot of hearaches... [QUOTE]
Hi smiley,
you have gotten it all wrong... no.1, there is no concrete evidence that he is still married. this is just something i heard from someone from the same organization. this maybe a misunderstanding. he tells me that he is divorced with no kids. he was seperated with his wife not long after the marriage as they could not get along and it was a matchmake marriage.
He is a great guy and i find myself falling more and more for him. but before i do, i am trying to think with my head and not with my heart.. as he is so far away... how can i be sure that he is truly a divorcee? i dont want to fall in love blindly and end up hurt .... i want this to end as a happy story and not a heartbroken one.
Anyway, I have decided to give this a chance and take things slow. he will be visiting in a couple of weeks and we shall see where this is going to lead to....
posted
[QUOTE]oh dear.... I am in my 50s too but instead at being on the beginning of a relationship ..I have been married to mine for years n years.... we go through this when we are young why in the name of mercy are you putting yourself through it now... now is the time you should be going on vacation enjoying your time...not getting tied up in heartache...i wonder also why it is that girls get so mixed up with married egyptian men... and then find that they are doubting them and not sure if tey are loved... now listen... first of all when you met the guy.. did he open up and tell you~hey Im married~ and hey I have kids or did you just fall into this relationship and then start to think about it.. I am totaly lost... god forbid if I were to meet another man my first thought would be for my husband and kids.. surely he cant forget his family so easily if he does then be sure you wil be forgotten as soon as the next female falls into his lap..that goes for both ladies on here...hy is it so easy to jump into a relationship and THEN ask questions... think first act later to save yourselves a lot of hearaches... [QUOTE]
Hi smiley,
you have gotten it all wrong... no.1, there is no concrete evidence that he is still married. this is just something i heard from someone from the same organization. this maybe a misunderstanding. he tells me that he is divorced with no kids. he was seperated with his wife not long after the marriage as they could not get along and it was a matchmake marriage.
He is a great guy and i find myself falling more and more for him. but before i do, i am trying to think with my head and not with my heart.. as he is so far away... how can i be sure that he is truly a divorcee? i dont want to fall in love blindly and end up hurt .... i want this to end as a happy story and not a heartbroken one.
Anyway, I have decided to give this a chance and take things slow. he will be visiting in a couple of weeks and we shall see where this is going to lead to....
Just read your two posts on your experiences with your Egyptian man you have fallen for.
Please use your head over your heart, I mean this in a good way.
When you mentioned you could get him a visa to usa "then you wouldn't have to share".
Think about that seriously. First of all it would be consisdered a fraud marriage, and is not recognized in the states, so it is null and void.
Secondly> What about the Egyptian wife and her children? So many stand to get hurt. It is becoming bigger and bigger this problem. Yes, you may have him, but technically and legally he is married to her first, will always remain faithful in taking care of her needs and the children.
Ask yourself ....Can you live with that? Also all the legal repercussions you will face. Love is great....but where do you draw the line? Really what is his real intention, you have to consisder?
Best of Luck But after reading your posts ...I personally would say"proceed with extreme caution". Better yet stop all communications with this man.
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