EgyptSearch Forums: Cross-religious couples

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Posted by Merima (Member # 9658) on :

Some days ago while waiting in a queue, I accidentally overheard a conversation between two women. One of them was telling the other that her daughter was going to marry a guy with Moroccan origin. And the other one really asked wheather it was tough for the family to adapt to the fact that the guy was Muslim [Eek!]

I can´t tell you, how stunned I was.

As far as I can see, there seem to be some people on this board being involved in a cross-religious relationship.

My question: Do these couples face many problems from their environment, like family, friends, coleagues, etc.?
If we take Egypt as an example: Is it more acceptable for a man to marry a woman with another religion? What if an Egyptian Muslim woman decides to marry a non-Muslim?
And what about the non-Muslim partner? Do they feel kind of a "pressure" to "adjust" to the new situation and convert?

(I know that if we just look at it from a religious point of view that such relationships are much more "acceptable" for men. That´s why I would like you to look at it from a societal point of view - that´s why I did not post this topic in the "Religion" section [Wink]

Last remark: I´m very well aware that I´m generalizing here, so feel free to do the same [Razz]

It´s not my intention to insult anybody, so please do not feel attacked by my question.

Thanks a lot for your comments [Smile]

Posted by _Masrawi_ (Member # 9597) on :

Mentality is more important than religion or nationality in a marriage ...

Posted by Ki$$7eaven (Member # 7854) on :

I agree mentalitly is definatly more important than nationaltly in marriage...

unfortunaly this is not the case more often

but not more imp thatn religion [Roll Eyes]

Posted by sonomod (Member # 3864) on :

quote:
Originally posted by _Masrawi_:
Mentality is more important than religion or nationality in a marriage ...

And you must take in account the mentality of alot of people

You not just marrying a person, but an entire family (extended and otherwise), a local community, even in some respects an entire nation or in the case of Islam Ullema.

Its deep.

Posted by _Masrawi_ (Member # 9597) on :

your eyes ok ki$$7eaven?

Posted by _Masrawi_ (Member # 9597) on :

quote:
Originally posted by sonomod:

quote:
Originally posted by _Masrawi_:
Mentality is more important than religion or nationality in a marriage ...
And you must take in account the mentality of alot of people

You not just marrying a person, but an entire family (extended and otherwise), a local community, even in some respects an entire nation or in the case of Islam Ullema.

Its deep.

wrong.

part of your mentality is whether you take these people into account or whether they are a deciding factor in your life. both ways. and trust me, i have first hand experience with that.

Posted by Ki$$7eaven (Member # 7854) on :

quote:
Originally posted by _Masrawi_:
your eyes ok ki$$7eaven?

yes elhamdulilha...

Posted by sonomod (Member # 3864) on :

quote:
Originally posted by _Masrawi_:

quote:
Originally posted by sonomod:

quote:
Originally posted by _Masrawi_:
Mentality is more important than religion or nationality in a marriage ...
And you must take in account the mentality of alot of people

You not just marrying a person, but an entire family (extended and otherwise), a local community, even in some respects an entire nation or in the case of Islam Ullema.

Its deep.
wrong.

part of your mentality is whether you take these people into account or whether they are a deciding factor in your life. both ways. and trust me, i have first hand experience with that.

Have you married a khawagaaa?

Posted by _Masrawi_ (Member # 9597) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Ki$$7eaven:

quote:
Originally posted by _Masrawi_:
your eyes ok ki$$7eaven?
yes elhamdulilha...

good ... i had a friend who used to roll her eyes all the time. one time they just stuck up there. u be careful now.

Posted by _Masrawi_ (Member # 9597) on :

quote:
Originally posted by sonomod:

quote:
Originally posted by _Masrawi_:

quote:
Originally posted by sonomod:

quote:
Originally posted by _Masrawi_:
Mentality is more important than religion or nationality in a marriage ...
And you must take in account the mentality of alot of people

You not just marrying a person, but an entire family (extended and otherwise), a local community, even in some respects an entire nation or in the case of Islam Ullema.

Its deep.
wrong.

part of your mentality is whether you take these people into account or whether they are a deciding factor in your life. both ways. and trust me, i have first hand experience with that.
Have you married a khawagaaa?

u r a smart enough girl to answer that ... i gave u enough hints in my post.

Posted by _Masrawi_ (Member # 9597) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Snoozin:
I can see mentality being the most important factor with respect to the fact people with similar mentalities are going to place similar value on something like religion.

For example, I wouldn't want to marry a Muslim man who didn't feel comfortable with the fact I'm going over my parents' house for Christmas and exchanging presents. If a guy had a problem with that for religious reasons, it would interfere with my relationship with my family.

bravo. my point.

Posted by sonomod (Member # 3864) on :

quote:
Originally posted by _Masrawi_:
u r a smart enough girl to answer that ... i gave u enough hints in my post.

ES101: usernames putting up a front and pretending like they have experienced more than they have.

Personally I don't know who you are, and really I can't trust what people say online most of the time.

Besides when I married my husband I got a nice long lecture from an African American revert who just left Nation of Islam for Islam:

"When you marry a Muslim, a true believer you marry 1 billion people. You must honor and respect those 1 billion people because they are closer to God than you are."

Enough said.

Posted by Ki$$7eaven (Member # 7854) on :

quote:
Originally posted by _Masrawi_:

quote:
Originally posted by Ki$$7eaven:

quote:
Originally posted by _Masrawi_:
your eyes ok ki$$7eaven?
yes elhamdulilha...
good ... i had a friend who used to roll her eyes all the time. one time they just stuck up there. u be careful now.

hehe...

mashi...

i think im just trying to keep my tired eyes open...
n i dont like plain text writing...like some pictures .... [Roll Eyes]

animated ones are better [Eek!]

well good night all

ma salam

Posted by _Masrawi_ (Member # 9597) on :

quote:
Originally posted by sonomod:

quote:
Originally posted by _Masrawi_:
u r a smart enough girl to answer that ... i gave u enough hints in my post.
ES101: usernames putting up a front and pretending like they have experienced more than they have.

Personally I don't know who you are, and really I can't trust what people say online most of the time.

Besides when I married my husband I got a nice long lecture from an African American revert who just left Nation of Islam for Islam:

"When you marry a Muslim, a true believer you marry 1 billion people. You must honor and respect those 1 billion people because they are closer to God than you are."

Enough said.

I thought i've been "tested" by u before?

As for your African American friend, let me assure u that no Arab muslim can even relate to their concepts ... it was no surprise that Mohammed Ali left the nation of islam as soon as he came back from Saudi Arabia and learned what the real islam is. the nation of islam is nothing but a political party with a religious front.

and don't u "enough said" me lady ...

Posted by _Masrawi_ (Member # 9597) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Ki$$7eaven:

quote:
Originally posted by _Masrawi_:

quote:
Originally posted by Ki$$7eaven:

quote:
Originally posted by _Masrawi_:
your eyes ok ki$$7eaven?
yes elhamdulilha...
good ... i had a friend who used to roll her eyes all the time. one time they just stuck up there. u be careful now.
hehe...

mashi...

i think im just trying to keep my tired eyes open...
n i dont like plain text writing...like some pictures .... animated ones are better

well good night all

ma salam

ciao ciao.

Posted by sonomod (Member # 3864) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Snoozin:
I can see mentality being the most important factor with respect to the fact people with similar mentalities are going to place similar value on something like religion.

For example, I wouldn't want to marry a Muslim man who didn't feel comfortable with the fact I'm going over my parents' house for Christmas and exchanging presents. If a guy had a problem with that for religious reasons, it would interfere with my relationship with my family.

I have the privilage of the same tradition being tolerated by my husband.

But he won't go over to my family's house for the day and he won't allow any of my income to go towards gifts. So I end up making the gifts without his knowledge at little expense and by my own hands.

If he knew there would be hell to pay.

Posted by sonomod (Member # 3864) on :

quote:
Originally posted by _Masrawi_:

and don't u "enough said" me lady ...

And how much of Islam is free from politics?

And how about verse 3:110 in the Quran?

What the African American revert had stated, was reworded and repeated by at least 40 other born-Muslims from Muslim dominated countries.

What all of these people forgot was my husband was marrying a person whose faith was ordained to be the true faith by 3/4 of the world. And he happened to make that committment to me in a Christian dominant nation.

Nice to forget the details? [Roll Eyes]

Posted by _Masrawi_ (Member # 9597) on :

quote:
Originally posted by sonomod:

quote:
Originally posted by _Masrawi_:

and don't u "enough said" me lady ...
And how much of Islam is free from politics?

And how about verse 3:110 in the Quran?

What the African American revert had stated, was reworded and repeated by at least 40 other born-Muslims from Muslim dominated countries.

What all of these people forgot was my husband was marrying a person whose faith was ordained to be the true faith by 3/4 of the world. And he happened to make that committment to me in a Christian dominant nation.

Nice to forget the details?

I am not religious enough to be able to reply to you in detail quoting parts of the quran ... but i am able to present you with the following:

When Muhammad married Maria the Copt, did he also place the whole ummah ahead of her?

Posted by _Masrawi_ (Member # 9597) on :

quote:
Originally posted by sonomod:

But he won't go over to my family's house for the day and he won't allow any of my income to go towards gifts. So I end up making the gifts without his knowledge at little expense and by my own hands.

And that my dear is nothing by religious intolerance. hence, my point ... mentality, mentality, mentality.

Posted by sonomod (Member # 3864) on :

quote:
Originally posted by _Masrawi_:
When Muhammad married Maria the Copt, did he also place the whole ummah ahead of her?

No, but she is the only wife besides Khadeja to bring him offspring (which subsequently didn't live).

But did the ummah ask Mariam to consider herself a inferior being to them because of her original faith?

No.

You couldn't possibly compare me to Mariam. Or any other kaffir who marries one of God's right hand.

Posted by sonomod (Member # 3864) on :

quote:
Originally posted by _Masrawi_:
And that my dear is nothing by religious intolerance. hence, my point ... mentality, mentality, mentality.

Yeah, and how many Muslim husband go over to his wife's family home for Christmas?

How many sermons at the local Mosque advises against this?

Mentality isn't an individual whim in Muslim dominant nations, its a shared breath.

Posted by Tiger1225 (Member # 9196) on :

quote:
Originally posted by _Masrawi_:
Mentality is more important than religion or nationality in a marriage ...

said the wise OLD MAN . [Big Grin]

By the way I agree with you completely..if I can alter this to *mental* compatibility .

Posted by _Masrawi_ (Member # 9597) on :

quote:
Originally posted by sonomod:

quote:
Originally posted by _Masrawi_:
When Muhammad married Maria the Copt, did he also place the whole ummah ahead of her?
No, but she is the only wife besides Khadeja to bring him offspring (which subsequently didn't live).

But did the ummah ask Mariam to consider herself a inferior being to them because of her original faith?

No.

You couldn't possibly compare me to Mariam. Or any other kaffir who marries one of God's right hand.

Thank u ... for u have brought up a very important topic for discussion: "iltakfeer"

What that word means is to proclaim other people kaffirs. When i first moved back to Egypt i was very disturbed at how common it was for people to refer to Christians as kaffirs. This is very sad, but also common. And it is a result of a weakness on the governments side to monitor the clerics residing over the various mosques who have become radical and ignorant. Christians are not kaffirs. Argue with any proclaimed religious Muslim (PRM) and he will argue that because they believe in the trinity, then they are therefore believing in more than one God. Whenever faced with such ignorance, i always carry on the following conversation:

Me: Can a Muslim marry a kaffir?
PRM: No
Me: Wasn't Maria a Copt, and in essence a believer in trinity?
PRM: Yes
Me: So, if she is kaffir, how is it that Muhammad was allowed to marry her?
PRM: *speechless*

Posted by Merima (Member # 9658) on :

quote:
Originally posted by _Masrawi_:

quote:

Mentality is more important than religion or nationality in a marriage ...

part of your mentality is whether you take these people into account or whether they are a deciding factor in your life. both ways. and trust me, i have first hand experience with that. [/QB][/QUOTE]

It´s great that you don´t consider these people to be "a deciding factor in your life". Chapeau!
But when someone is living in a society with a high conformity pressure, is it really probable that s/he is going to "rebel" against the standard?

Posted by _Masrawi_ (Member # 9597) on :

quote:
Originally posted by sonomod:

quote:
Originally posted by _Masrawi_:
And that my dear is nothing by religious intolerance. hence, my point ... mentality, mentality, mentality.
Yeah, and how many Muslim husband go over to his wife's family home for Christmas?

How many sermons at the local Mosque advises against this?

Mentality isn't an individual whim in Muslim dominant nations, its a shared breath.

But that is THE whole point sonomod ... all of us who are religiously tolerant will tell u that the biggest catastrophe facing Islam today is the misinterpretation of the reigion. And hence, the popularity of people like Osama Bin Laden who would declare me kaffir in a flash.

Posted by _Masrawi_ (Member # 9597) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Tiger1225:

quote:
Originally posted by _Masrawi_:
Mentality is more important than religion or nationality in a marriage ...
said the wise OLD MAN .

By the way I agree with you completely..if I can alter this to *mental* compatibility .

thanks for your vote of confidence tiggery pooh. [Smile]

Posted by Merima (Member # 9658) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Snoozin:
I can see mentality being the most important factor with respect to the fact people with similar mentalities are going to place similar value on something like religion.

For example, I wouldn't want to marry a Muslim man who didn't feel comfortable with the fact I'm going over my parents' house for Christmas and exchanging presents. If a guy had a problem with that for religious reasons, it would interfere with my relationship with my family.

This is exactly my question: Is there an interference with one´s relationship with family when marrying someone from another religion?

Posted by Tiger1225 (Member # 9196) on :

quote:
Originally posted by _Masrawi_:

quote:
Originally posted by Tiger1225:

quote:
Originally posted by _Masrawi_:
Mentality is more important than religion or nationality in a marriage ...
said the wise OLD MAN .

By the way I agree with you completely..if I can alter this to *mental* compatibility .
thanks for your vote of confidence tiggery pooh.

Posted by _Masrawi_ (Member # 9597) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Merima:

quote:
Originally posted by _Masrawi_:

quote:

Mentality is more important than religion or nationality in a marriage ...
part of your mentality is whether you take these people into account or whether they are a deciding factor in your life. both ways. and trust me, i have first hand experience with that.

It´s great that you don´t consider these people to be "a deciding factor in your life". Chapeau!
But when someone is living in a society with a high conformity pressure, is it really probable that s/he is going to "rebel" against the standard? [/QB][/QUOTE]

but we must ... isn't that what individuality is all about? why were we given brains if we were expected to follow like sheep? surely, not just to choose our favorite sexual positions ...

what's everyone favorite sexual position by the way?

Posted by _Masrawi_ (Member # 9597) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Merima:

quote:
Originally posted by Snoozin:
I can see mentality being the most important factor with respect to the fact people with similar mentalities are going to place similar value on something like religion.

For example, I wouldn't want to marry a Muslim man who didn't feel comfortable with the fact I'm going over my parents' house for Christmas and exchanging presents. If a guy had a problem with that for religious reasons, it would interfere with my relationship with my family.
This is exactly my question: Is there an interference with one´s relationship with family when marrying someone from another religion?

Posted by sonomod (Member # 3864) on :

quote:
Originally posted by _Masrawi_:
Thank u ... for u have brought up a very important topic for discussion: "iltakfeer"

What that word means is to proclaim other people kaffirs. When i first moved back to Egypt i was very disturbed at how common it was for people to refer to Christians as kaffirs. This is very sad, but also common. And it is a result of a weakness on the governments side to monitor the clerics residing over the various mosques who have become radical and ignorant. Christians are not kaffirs. Argue with any proclaimed religious Muslim (PRM) and he will argue that because they believe in the trinity, then they are therefore believing in more than one God. Whenever faced with such ignorance, i always carry on the following conversation:

Me: Can a Muslim marry a kaffir?
PRM: No
Me: Wasn't Maria a Copt, and in essence a believer in trinity?
PRM: Yes
Me: So, if she is kaffir, how is it that Muhammad was allowed to marry her?
PRM: *speechless*

And this is how 90% of Muslims in the world view Christians.

Even though many Christians are more agnostic and don't believe in the trinity.

Posted by Merima (Member # 9658) on :

quote:
Originally posted by _Masrawi_:

quote:
Originally posted by Merima:

quote:
Originally posted by _Masrawi_:

quote:

Mentality is more important than religion or nationality in a marriage ...
part of your mentality is whether you take these people into account or whether they are a deciding factor in your life. both ways. and trust me, i have first hand experience with that.
It´s great that you don´t consider these people to be "a deciding factor in your life". Chapeau!
But when someone is living in a society with a high conformity pressure, is it really probable that s/he is going to "rebel" against the standard?

but we must ... isn't that what individuality is all about? why were we given brains if we were expected to follow like sheep? surely, not just to choose our favorite sexual positions ...

what's everyone favorite sexual position by the way? [/QB][/QUOTE]

A absolutely agree! BUT if we were to live in a "perfect world" with perfect people individuality and tolerance would be taken for granted. But isn´t the actual reality different? Would we otherwise be discussing this point?

And not to forget: Don´t you dare to distract from my original topic! [Razz]

Posted by _Masrawi_ (Member # 9597) on :

quote:
Originally posted by sonomod:
And this is how 90% of Muslims in the world view Christians.

Even though many Christians are more agnostic and don't believe in the trinity.

i am glad to see your percentage slider declining ... when we first started our "discussions" on here, your favorite figure was 99%. At 90%, i feel like i have accomplished quite a bit ... 40% to go.

Posted by sonomod (Member # 3864) on :

quote:
Originally posted by _Masrawi_:
of course there is ... but if the husband made that decision to bring a woman from a different religion and culture, then he stands responsible for defending and supporting her. if u arent up for the challenge and just want to conform then don't bring injustice upon yourself, your wife, and your family.

Yeah, but here you go, many Muslimahs are resentful of your husband for marrying a kaffir.

Especially since Muslimahs don't have the right to marry kaffir themselves.

So the buzzing in your ear starts, mostly from men who won't dare marry a kaffir or Muslimahs who won't ever challenge the Patriarchy unless its this condition.

So naturally you must turn on your wife or otherwise you are not faithful to the ummah.

I can't tell you how very spiteful Muslimahs can be about this. Really quite vampid.

Posted by Merima (Member # 9658) on :

quote:
Originally posted by _Masrawi_:
[/qb]

of course there is ... but if the husband made that decision to bring a woman from a different religion and culture, then he stands responsible for defending and supporting her. if u arent up for the challenge and just want to conform then don't bring injustice upon yourself, your wife, and your family. [/QB][/QUOTE]

The husband..., ok. But what about the woman who marries a guy from another religion? Is it as easy for her to "defend and support" him in front of her (Muslim?) family?

Posted by _Masrawi_ (Member # 9597) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Merima:

A absolutely agree! BUT if we were to live in a "perfect world" with perfect people individuality and tolerance would be taken for granted. But isn´t the actual reality different? Would we otherwise be discussing this point?

And not to forget: Don´t you dare to distract from my original topic!

right ... the world has leaders and followers. the followers are expected to conform and follow, while the leaders are expected to set forth the proper path. when u get a leader like hilter, u end up with world war ii.

Posted by sonomod (Member # 3864) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Merima:

The husband..., ok. But what about the woman who marries a guy from another religion? Is it as easy for her to "defend and support" him in front of her (Muslim?) family?

ha ha, you are joking right?

A muslimah isn't allowed to marry a christain.

Period! End of Story!

Their marriage would invalid in the eyes of the Muslim world, let alone most North African and Middle East governments! [Roll Eyes]

Posted by _Masrawi_ (Member # 9597) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Merima:

quote:
Originally posted by _Masrawi_:

of course there is ... but if the husband made that decision to bring a woman from a different religion and culture, then he stands responsible for defending and supporting her. if u arent up for the challenge and just want to conform then don't bring injustice upon yourself, your wife, and your family. [/QB]

The husband..., ok. But what about the woman who marries a guy from another religion? Is it as easy for her to "defend and support" him in front of her (Muslim?) family? [/QB][/QUOTE]

now, that's a different issue ...

Posted by Merima (Member # 9658) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Snoozin:
You know, one of the things I was watching for in my fiance was whether he somehow treated me differently in Egypt when we visited for 2 weeks. We were in a business meeting (of all things) when one of the men there was trying to pressure me to change my dinner cruise plans that night so I could meet with an (important) investor. It was a $4 million deal or something. My fiance just *loves* business and I really thought he would put the business deal/man first over my desire to go on this cruise.

But he did the exact opposite! He totally stood up for me and insisted that he promised this guy he was taking me on the cruise and if the investor is so interested, he would be fine with rescheduling. The guy said to my fiance, *that's really an American thing to do.* And my fiance replied simply, *we're Americans.*

So it really depends on the person/people. He went against his love of business and his home culture to take me to a cruise that was merely a fun excursion, just because I wanted to.

Oh Snoozin, I´m happy for you. You found the man of every woman´s dreams [Smile]

Posted by Merima (Member # 9658) on :

quote:
Originally posted by sonomod:

quote:
Originally posted by Merima:

The husband..., ok. But what about the woman who marries a guy from another religion? Is it as easy for her to "defend and support" him in front of her (Muslim?) family?
ha ha, you are joking right?

A muslimah isn't allowed to marry a christain.

Period! End of Story!

Their marriage would invalid in the eyes of the Muslim world, let alone most North African and Middle East governments!

I know that it is not allowed from the religious point of view? But since we´re just human beings, it´s not impossible, is it?
So what happens when a Muslim woman actually falls in love with a non-Muslim guy?

Posted by _Masrawi_ (Member # 9597) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Merima:

quote:
Originally posted by sonomod:

quote:
Originally posted by Merima:

The husband..., ok. But what about the woman who marries a guy from another religion? Is it as easy for her to "defend and support" him in front of her (Muslim?) family?
ha ha, you are joking right?

A muslimah isn't allowed to marry a christain.

Period! End of Story!

Their marriage would invalid in the eyes of the Muslim world, let alone most North African and Middle East governments!
I know that it is not allowed from the religious point of view? But since we´re just human beings, it´s not impossible, is it?
So what happens when a Muslim woman actually falls in love with a non-Muslim guy?

One of them converts ...

Posted by Merima (Member # 9658) on :

quote:
Originally posted by _Masrawi_:

quote:
Originally posted by Merima:

quote:
Originally posted by _Masrawi_:

of course there is ... but if the husband made that decision to bring a woman from a different religion and culture, then he stands responsible for defending and supporting her. if u arent up for the challenge and just want to conform then don't bring injustice upon yourself, your wife, and your family.
The husband..., ok. But what about the woman who marries a guy from another religion? Is it as easy for her to "defend and support" him in front of her (Muslim?) family? [/QB]

now, that's a different issue ... [/QB][/QUOTE]

A different issue? Why? If you consider men and women as being equal, why should we make a difference here?

Posted by _Masrawi_ (Member # 9597) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Merima:

quote:
Originally posted by _Masrawi_:

quote:
Originally posted by Merima:

quote:
Originally posted by _Masrawi_:

of course there is ... but if the husband made that decision to bring a woman from a different religion and culture, then he stands responsible for defending and supporting her. if u arent up for the challenge and just want to conform then don't bring injustice upon yourself, your wife, and your family.
The husband..., ok. But what about the woman who marries a guy from another religion? Is it as easy for her to "defend and support" him in front of her (Muslim?) family?
now, that's a different issue ... [/QB]

A different issue? Why? If you consider men and women as being equal, why should we make a difference here? [/QB][/QUOTE]

i do ... but it isn't my religion.

Posted by Merima (Member # 9658) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Snoozin:

quote:
Originally posted by Merima:
Oh Snoozin, I´m happy for you. You found the man of every woman´s dreams
Not apparently. he is divorced, so some woman didn't like him.

but thank you....although I didn't find him til I was 37. But he's worth the wait in my opinion.

What about you?

Nothing wrong with divorced men. After all, they know what a marriage is like and they should have learned from previous mistakes and be brilliant in their next marriages [Big Grin]

Posted by sonomod (Member # 3864) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Merima:

quote:
Originally posted by _Masrawi_:

quote:
Originally posted by Merima:

quote:
Originally posted by _Masrawi_:

of course there is ... but if the husband made that decision to bring a woman from a different religion and culture, then he stands responsible for defending and supporting her. if u arent up for the challenge and just want to conform then don't bring injustice upon yourself, your wife, and your family.
The husband..., ok. But what about the woman who marries a guy from another religion? Is it as easy for her to "defend and support" him in front of her (Muslim?) family?
now, that's a different issue ... [/QB]

A different issue? Why? If you consider men and women as being equal, why should we make a difference here? [/QB][/QUOTE]

Because it does make a difference and thats the way it is.

NEXT!

Posted by Merima (Member # 9658) on :

quote:
Originally posted by _Masrawi_:

quote:
Originally posted by Merima:

quote:
Originally posted by _Masrawi_:

quote:
Originally posted by Merima:

quote:
Originally posted by _Masrawi_:

of course there is ... but if the husband made that decision to bring a woman from a different religion and culture, then he stands responsible for defending and supporting her. if u arent up for the challenge and just want to conform then don't bring injustice upon yourself, your wife, and your family.
The husband..., ok. But what about the woman who marries a guy from another religion? Is it as easy for her to "defend and support" him in front of her (Muslim?) family?
now, that's a different issue ...
A different issue? Why? If you consider men and women as being equal, why should we make a difference here? [/QB]

i do ... but it isn't my religion. [/QB][/QUOTE]

And the tricky question is: Does one obey oneself and leads an independent and self-determined life even if it goes against one´s religion? Or is religion put in first place?

Posted by Merima (Member # 9658) on :

quote:
Originally posted by sonomod:

quote:
Originally posted by _Masrawi_:
of course there is ... but if the husband made that decision to bring a woman from a different religion and culture, then he stands responsible for defending and supporting her. if u arent up for the challenge and just want to conform then don't bring injustice upon yourself, your wife, and your family.
Yeah, but here you go, many Muslimahs are resentful of your husband for marrying a kaffir.

Especially since Muslimahs don't have the right to marry kaffir themselves.

So the buzzing in your ear starts, mostly from men who won't dare marry a kaffir or Muslimahs who won't ever challenge the Patriarchy unless its this condition.

So naturally you must turn on your wife or otherwise you are not faithful to the ummah.

I can't tell you how very spiteful Muslimahs can be about this. Really quite vampid.

Oh Sonomod, please don´t be so unfair. Not all Muslimahs are like that. Some of us can be quite nice [Razz]

Posted by sonomod (Member # 3864) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Merima:

quote:
Originally posted by _Masrawi_:

quote:
Originally posted by Merima:

quote:
Originally posted by _Masrawi_:

quote:
Originally posted by Merima:

quote:
Originally posted by _Masrawi_:

of course there is ... but if the husband made that decision to bring a woman from a different religion and culture, then he stands responsible for defending and supporting her. if u arent up for the challenge and just want to conform then don't bring injustice upon yourself, your wife, and your family.
The husband..., ok. But what about the woman who marries a guy from another religion? Is it as easy for her to "defend and support" him in front of her (Muslim?) family?
now, that's a different issue ...
A different issue? Why? If you consider men and women as being equal, why should we make a difference here?
i do ... but it isn't my religion. [/QB]

And the tricky question is: Does one obey oneself and leads an independent and self-determined life even if it goes against one´s religion? Or is religion put in first place? [/QB][/QUOTE]

Now that Muslims are so much better at obeying God and are so superior to Christians, what do you think?

Posted by sonomod (Member # 3864) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Merima:

quote:
Originally posted by sonomod:

quote:
Originally posted by _Masrawi_:
of course there is ... but if the husband made that decision to bring a woman from a different religion and culture, then he stands responsible for defending and supporting her. if u arent up for the challenge and just want to conform then don't bring injustice upon yourself, your wife, and your family.
Yeah, but here you go, many Muslimahs are resentful of your husband for marrying a kaffir.

Especially since Muslimahs don't have the right to marry kaffir themselves.

So the buzzing in your ear starts, mostly from men who won't dare marry a kaffir or Muslimahs who won't ever challenge the Patriarchy unless its this condition.

So naturally you must turn on your wife or otherwise you are not faithful to the ummah.

I can't tell you how very spiteful Muslimahs can be about this. Really quite vampid.
Oh Sonomod, please don´t be so unfair. Not all Muslimahs are like that. Some of us can be quite nice

Thats if they are practicing Muslimahs. Disobediant Muslimahs don't count.

Posted by Merima (Member # 9658) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Snoozin:

quote:
Originally posted by Merima:

And the tricky question is: Does one obey oneself and leads an independent and self-determined life even if it goes against one´s religion? Or is religion put in first place?
Well, that's difficult. What do you mean by *obey* yourself? I would hope that a person can lead a self-determined life that is in concert with his/her religion...

But if we stick to my exampe with a Muslim woman falling in love with a non-Muslim: Is it possible for her to act according to her feelings and listening to her heart without violating religious rules?

Posted by _Masrawi_ (Member # 9597) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Merima:

quote:
Originally posted by Snoozin:

quote:
Originally posted by Merima:

And the tricky question is: Does one obey oneself and leads an independent and self-determined life even if it goes against one´s religion? Or is religion put in first place?
Well, that's difficult. What do you mean by *obey* yourself? I would hope that a person can lead a self-determined life that is in concert with his/her religion...
But if we stick to my exampe with a Muslim woman falling in love with a non-Muslim: Is it possible for her to act according to her feelings and listening to her heart without violating religious rules?

i lost u ... what's your question / argument?

Posted by Merima (Member # 9658) on :

quote:
Originally posted by sonomod:

quote:
Originally posted by Merima:
And the tricky question is: Does one obey oneself and leads an independent and self-determined life even if it goes against one´s religion? Or is religion put in first place? [/QB]

Now that Muslims are so much better at obeying God and are so superior to Christians, what do you think? [/QB][/QUOTE]

Nobody is talking about Muslim superiority to Christians. And who told you that Muslims are much better at obeying God? Yoi can confidently doubt this

Posted by Sadeeqy (Member # 9759) on :

Do It Anyway

People are often unreasonable, irrational, and self-centered.
Forgive them anyway.

If you are kind, people may accuse you of selfish, ulterior motives.
Be kind anyway.

If you are successful, you will win some unfaithful friends and some genuine enemies.
Succeed anyway.

If you are honest and sincere people may deceive you.
Be honest and sincere anyway.

What you spend years creating, others could destroy overnight.
Create anyway.

If you find serenity and happiness, some may be jealous.
Be happy anyway.

The good you do today, will often be forgotten.
Do good anyway.

Give the best you have, and it will never be enough.
Give your best anyway.

In the final analysis, it is between you and God.
It was never between you and them anyway.

Posted by Merima (Member # 9658) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Snoozin:

quote:
Originally posted by Merima:
But if we stick to my exampe with a Muslim woman falling in love with a non-Muslim: Is it possible for her to act according to her feelings and listening to her heart without violating religious rules?
Well, acting according to her feelings and listening to her heart often gets a girl in trouble.

That is such an intensely personal decision to make. It depends on things like how important is religion in the woman's life? Religion is there forever while a man probably won't be.

But on the other side of the coin, I think you help yourself, your husband, your children, and society in general by having a warm, loving caring family. And in a way, I see that as showing love for God.

None of us is perfect. I would still consider that woman a Muslim even if she married a non-Muslim. We humans can only see a person's actions, but God sees her heart.

I don´t like this idea that a Muslim woman has to decide: either the guy or the religion. She should be able to have both at the same time.

Posted by Merima (Member # 9658) on :

quote:
Originally posted by _Masrawi_:
i lost u ... what's your question / argument? [/QB]

It looks as if a Muslim woman can only decide: the guy or the religion. She should have both. After all, men don´t have to make a decision.
Was this clearer? I hope so

Posted by _Masrawi_ (Member # 9597) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Merima:

quote:
Originally posted by _Masrawi_:
i lost u ... what's your question / argument?
It looks as if a Muslim woman can only decide: the guy or the religion. She should have both. After all, men don´t have to make a decision.
Was this clearer? I hope so [/QB]

yes, it was clearer but the same argument applies. it's the way the religion is. i have a muslim friend who married a jew ... he had to accept that his kids were gonna be jews because she happened to be more religious than he is. so, bottom line is there are certain aspects of religion that we can't change ... we either accept it or we don't.

Posted by Merima (Member # 9658) on :

quote:
Originally posted by _Masrawi_:

quote:
Originally posted by Merima:

quote:
Originally posted by _Masrawi_:
i lost u ... what's your question / argument?
It looks as if a Muslim woman can only decide: the guy or the religion. She should have both. After all, men don´t have to make a decision.
Was this clearer? I hope so
yes, it was clearer but the same argument applies. it's the way the religion is. i have a muslim friend who married a jew ... he had to accept that his kids were gonna be jews because she happened to be more religious than he is. so, bottom line is there are certain aspects of religion that we can't change ... we either accept it or we don't. [/QB]

Shouldn´t religion be more "flexible" so that we can adjust it to our lifes instead adjusting our lifes to religion?
I still don´t like this idea of accepting religion or being "kicked" out. There should be a happy medium.
I know, I know, "real" Muslims are going to give me hell for this [Roll Eyes]

Posted by _Masrawi_ (Member # 9597) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Merima:

quote:
Originally posted by _Masrawi_:

quote:
Originally posted by Merima:

quote:
Originally posted by _Masrawi_:
i lost u ... what's your question / argument?
It looks as if a Muslim woman can only decide: the guy or the religion. She should have both. After all, men don´t have to make a decision.
Was this clearer? I hope so
yes, it was clearer but the same argument applies. it's the way the religion is. i have a muslim friend who married a jew ... he had to accept that his kids were gonna be jews because she happened to be more religious than he is. so, bottom line is there are certain aspects of religion that we can't change ... we either accept it or we don't.
Shouldn´t religion be more "flexible" so that we can adjust it to our lifes instead adjusting our lifes to religion?
I still don´t like this idea of accepting religion or being "kicked" out. There should be a happy medium.
I know, I know, "real" Muslims are going to give me hell for this [/QB]

oh no ... this isn't only about islam. it's about any form of organized religion ... i.e. religions with a doctrine.

Can u be gay and Catholic? Yes, u can ... would the church accept u? No. So, it's a choice.

Posted by Tiger1225 (Member # 9196) on :

Ok ..what did I miss...Tiger is back after he had to practise his vowels ...

Posted by Snoozin (Member # 6244) on :

you missed the *and sometimes y*.

[Big Grin]

Posted by Sadeeqy (Member # 9759) on :

Welcome, Tiger! Give me an "o"!

Posted by Tiger1225 (Member # 9196) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Snoozin:
you missed the *and sometimes y*.

that does not sound like I missed much... [Wink]

Posted by Tiger1225 (Member # 9196) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Sadeeqy:
Welcome, Tiger! Give me an "o"!

Sorry no more "O" for a week I had to give all my "O" a while ago [Wink]

Posted by Snoozin (Member # 6244) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Paint Me As I Am:

Alhamdulliah Allah - gives to us in His Perfect Timing..

Trust me, I am very grateful and blessed. [Smile]

Posted by Sadeeqy (Member # 9759) on :

quote:
Sorry no more "O" for a week I had to give all my "O" a while ago

/////
So, only leftovers for me, huh? [Big Grin]

Posted by Tiger1225 (Member # 9196) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Merima:
Shouldn´t religion be more "flexible" so that we can adjust it to our lifes instead adjusting our lifes to religion?
I still don´t like this idea of accepting religion or being "kicked" out. There should be a happy medium.
I know, I know, "real" Muslims are going to give me hell for this
[/QB]

WHICH RELIGION ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT NOW...SINCE REAL RELIGION ( FAITH) NO MATTER WHAT YOU NAME IT ..IS VERY TOLERANT...AND UNDERSTANDING...
IT IS THE PEOPLE'S UNDERSTANDING OF THE RELIGION THAT IS NOT..

Posted by Tiger1225 (Member # 9196) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Snoozin:

quote:
Originally posted by Paint Me As I Am:

Alhamdulliah Allah - gives to us in His Perfect Timing..
Trust me, I am very grateful and blessed.

For being so greatful God will give you even more..inshaAllah

Posted by Snoozin (Member # 6244) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Tiger1225:
IT IS THE PEOPLE'S UNDERSTANDING OF THE RELIGION THAT IS NOT..

Then how are people *misunderstanding* religion? [Confused]

Posted by Tiger1225 (Member # 9196) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Sadeeqy:

quote:
Sorry no more "O" for a week I had to give all my "O" a while ago
/////
So, only leftovers for me, huh?

you are fasting and I'm tired..no "o" available ..Sorry [Frown]

Posted by Tiger1225 (Member # 9196) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Snoozin:

quote:
Originally posted by Tiger1225:
IT IS THE PEOPLE'S UNDERSTANDING OF THE RELIGION THAT IS NOT..
Then how are people *misunderstanding* religion?

you are smarter than asking a question like that...no text book said to kill for no reason..no text book said Lie to the people...no text book said take other people's land and kill who object.....more and more....Come on....I know that your IQ is higher than mine and I was able to figer that on my own

Posted by Tiger1225 (Member # 9196) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Paint Me As I Am:

quote:
Originally posted by Snoozin:

quote:
Originally posted by Paint Me As I Am:

Alhamdulliah Allah - gives to us in His Perfect Timing..
Trust me, I am very grateful and blessed.
//////////////////////////

So am I.. Grateful and Blessed..

I wish ES had different Graemlins(Emoticons) would love to send Flowers.. What date did u set for ur wedding?

Jannah

Paint ..nice avatar ..who is that second person..is it KIR [Smile]

Posted by Snoozin (Member # 6244) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Tiger1225:
you are smarter than asking a question like that...no text book said to kill for no reason..no text book said Lie to the people...no text book said take other people's land and kill who object.....more and more....Come on....I know that your IQ is higher than mine and I was able to figer that on my own

You're busting on my intelligence? [Confused]

Anyway, it was a serious question since the people who seem intolerant are the ones who take every word literally. And the ideas of *literal* and *misunderstanding* the religion don't seem to jive on the surface. That's why I asked.

Posted by Snoozin (Member # 6244) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Paint Me As I Am:

So am I.. Grateful and Blessed..

I wish ES had different Graemlins(Emoticons) would love to send Flowers.. What date did u set for ur wedding?

Jannah

Thank you Jannah. January 1, God willing. Just formalities that day....hopefully a party in the summer after my busy season at work (coming up soon) [Eek!]

Posted by Tiger1225 (Member # 9196) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Snoozin:

quote:
Originally posted by Tiger1225:
you are smarter than asking a question like that...no text book said to kill for no reason..no text book said Lie to the people...no text book said take other people's land and kill who object.....more and more....Come on....I know that your IQ is higher than mine and I was able to figer that on my own
You're busting on my intelligence?

Anyway, it was a serious question since the people who seem intolerant are the ones who take every word literally. And the ideas of *literal* and *misunderstanding* the religion don't seem to jive on the surface. That's why I asked.

No I was not I'm dead serious when I say you have a higher IQ than me ...for God's sake you are an attorney...

Literal meaning of things could lead to a lot of troubles as you know..Look at the court system..and you know what I'm talking about...

Posted by Tiger1225 (Member # 9196) on :

Snoozin I sent you a PM

Posted by Snoozin (Member # 6244) on :

I know, but nothing in the US Constitution says we need to take it literally. In fact, there is a whole body of law on how to interpret constitutional issues, statutory requirements, and case law. There is room for interpretation based on precedent in American law.

There seems to be no room for interpetation in religion by people who take every word literally. That's all.

Posted by Tiger1225 (Member # 9196) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Snoozin:
I know, but nothing in the US Constitution says we need to take it literally. In fact, there is a whole body of law on how to interpret constitutional issues, statutory requirements, and case law. There is room for interpretation based on precedent in American law.

There seems to be no room for interpetation in religion by people who take every word literally. That's all.

My friend you are comparing APPLES to ORANGES..here...Constituations are man made script...while Holy texts are God made scripe and true there is room for interpertation in both that is why you will find far right and far left anf somewhere in between...

Posted by sin-dee (Member # 5854) on :

quote:
Originally posted by _Masrawi_:

quote:
Originally posted by Ki$$7eaven:

quote:
Originally posted by _Masrawi_:
your eyes ok ki$$7eaven?
yes elhamdulilha...
good ... i had a friend who used to roll her eyes all the time. one time they just stuck up there. u be careful now.

LOL!!! I may not post here a lot but I do read & I have to tell you,I get a great laugh out of some of the stuff you write....

Posted by Watchdog33 (Member # 9766) on :

As I went through most of the replies, people kind a went off on religious attacks and name calling. That's why, I always believe that never discuss religion with Middle Easterners, or Arabs since the answer would be always the same; if you are a Muslim, everyone agrees, if you believe in any other religion, you are a "Kaffir" as it was mentioned several times. These people will never understand or accept anyone else, and that's why, the whole earth in such a miss today. I do not want to generalize since I know for a fact that many educated Moslems will not talk this way cause this kind of language is only based on ignorance. Back to the real subject; In Egypt, if you are a Muslim male, you can marry a Christian woman, and the whole country will celebrate for converting what they call a "kaffir" to Islam. If a Moslem woman marries a Christian man, then hell will brake lose, it is totally unacceptable, and most likely she could be abandoned by her family, community, and even killed in some cases. The idea is totally wrong both ways since there will be many differences, sacrifices, and challenges by both families and communities. People should stick with their own to avoid the nightmare because it will not work unless they are truly in deep, strong love, and have the guts to face the challenges. This could means leaving the whole country and their families once and for all in order to buy their peace. The bottom line is; most people are not up to this challenge, it’s not worth it. Please stay away from the attacks, and keep it civilized. Thanks

Posted by Asooma (Member # 8611) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Merima:
Some days ago while waiting in a queue, I accidentally overheard a conversation between two women. One of them was telling the other that her daughter was going to marry a guy with Moroccan origin. And the other one really asked wheather it was tough for the family to adapt to the fact that the guy was Muslim I can´t tell you, how stunned I was.

As far as I can see, there seem to be some people on this board being involved in a cross-religious relationship.

My question: Do these couples face many problems from their environment, like family, friends, coleagues, etc.?
If we take Egypt as an example: Is it more acceptable for a man to marry a woman with another religion? What if an Egyptian Muslim woman decides to marry a non-Muslim?
And what about the non-Muslim partner? Do they feel kind of a "pressure" to "adjust" to the new situation and convert?

(I know that if we just look at it from a religious point of view that such relationships are much more "acceptable" for men. That´s why I would like you to look at it from a societal point of view - that´s why I did not post this topic in the "Religion" section
Last remark: I´m very well aware that I´m generalizing here, so feel free to do the same
It´s not my intention to insult anybody, so please do not feel attacked by my question.

Thanks a lot for your comments

my dear, As they said to you mentality is important than nationality but, something is lost here, that the country background and culture may forum like 10%of yr character. from the Islamic prospective, it is accepted for a man to marry a Christian or Jewish woman, but this don’t go for women, and in this case(if she got married with a contract) we call her “morteda” or apostasy, she is not a Muslim any more…for example, my mum’s step mother is a Christian woman, and after getting married to my grandpa and she said that she converted to Islam, after a while she was back to her religion. 10 years later, she is Muslim. However, Christian get married to Muslim men for only two reasons, financial reasons or love reasons…but not for the sick of marriage itself, and the church in Egypt gives these women(who chooses muslim hubands) really hard times...

Posted by Merima (Member # 9658) on :

Hey Watchdog,
I don´t have the impression that the replies are offensive and meant to attack the other participants. Actually, we are quite civilized in this very thread, aren´t we ;-)) Or did I miss something?
Since religion is a basic pillar of society (in Egypt), you cannot discuss something like marriage without taking it into consideration. And when it comes to religion people can get too "passionate" since it is a very emotional topic. But I absolutely agree: Respect is the key in a discussion;-)

Now back to the real subject: Thanks a lot for your reply. It is very interesting to learn about the attitude towards cross-religious couples in Egypt. It´s very much the same in Bosnia. One difference may be that even the son marrying a woman from another religion will sometimes face the hell on earth. I sometimes even think that it does not really matter that the bride-to-be or the groom-to-be is a good person. The only thing that counts is their religious affliation.
And again, I agree that it´s much easier when both partners have the same religious backbround.
But the troble is that it´s not always easy to fall in love with the "right" person,i.e. person with the "right" religion.

Salam

Posted by Merima (Member # 9658) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Snoozin:

quote:
Originally posted by Paint Me As I Am:

So am I.. Grateful and Blessed..

I wish ES had different Graemlins(Emoticons) would love to send Flowers.. What date did u set for ur wedding?

Jannah
Thank you Jannah. January 1, God willing. Just formalities that day....hopefully a party in the summer after my busy season at work (coming up soon)

You´re going to marry on January 1?!? "Mabrouk"! Or don´t you say that for a wedding but only for a newborn child? [Confused]

Anyway, I sincerely congratulate and wish you and your husband-to-be all the best [Smile]

Posted by Merima (Member # 9658) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Tiger1225:

quote:
Originally posted by Merima:
Shouldn´t religion be more "flexible" so that we can adjust it to our lifes instead adjusting our lifes to religion?
I still don´t like this idea of accepting religion or being "kicked" out. There should be a happy medium.
I know, I know, "real" Muslims are going to give me hell for this
WHICH RELIGION ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT NOW...SINCE REAL RELIGION ( FAITH) NO MATTER WHAT YOU NAME IT ..IS VERY TOLERANT...AND UNDERSTANDING...
IT IS THE PEOPLE'S UNDERSTANDING OF THE RELIGION THAT IS NOT.. [/QB]

Hi Tiger,
my example was about Islam but as Masrawi said it in his last comment, you can apply it to any (other) religion.

Posted by Watchdog33 (Member # 9766) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Merima:
Hey Watchdog,
I don´t have the impression that the replies are offensive and meant to attack the other participants. Actually, we are quite civilized in this very thread, aren´t we ;-)) Or did I miss something?
Since religion is a basic pillar of society (in Egypt), you cannot discuss something like marriage without taking it into consideration. And when it comes to religion people can get too "passionate" since it is a very emotional topic. But I absolutely agree: Respect is the key in a discussion;-)

Now back to the real subject: Thanks a lot for your reply. It is very interesting to learn about the attitude towards cross-religious couples in Egypt. It´s very much the same in Bosnia. One difference may be that even the son marrying a woman from another religion will sometimes face the hell on earth. I sometimes even think that it does not really matter that the bride-to-be or the groom-to-be is a good person. The only thing that counts is their religious affliation.
And again, I agree that it´s much easier when both partners have the same religious backbround.
But the troble is that it´s not always easy to fall in love with the "right" person,i.e. person with the "right" religion.

Salam

Posted by _Masrawi_ (Member # 9597) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Merima:
Hey Watchdog,
I don´t have the impression that the replies are offensive and meant to attack the other participants. Actually, we are quite civilized in this very thread, aren´t we ;-)) Or did I miss something?
Since religion is a basic pillar of society (in Egypt), you cannot discuss something like marriage without taking it into consideration. And when it comes to religion people can get too "passionate" since it is a very emotional topic. But I absolutely agree: Respect is the key in a discussion;-)

Now back to the real subject: Thanks a lot for your reply. It is very interesting to learn about the attitude towards cross-religious couples in Egypt. It´s very much the same in Bosnia. One difference may be that even the son marrying a woman from another religion will sometimes face the hell on earth. I sometimes even think that it does not really matter that the bride-to-be or the groom-to-be is a good person. The only thing that counts is their religious affliation.
And again, I agree that it´s much easier when both partners have the same religious backbround.
But the troble is that it´s not always easy to fall in love with the "right" person,i.e. person with the "right" religion.

Salam

Merima,

Don't bother with WatchDog ... he doesn't bother reading and then comes in with his meaningless and baseless statements. He thinks having lived in the US for awhile, he's become more civilized than the rest of us. A prime example of the complexities with Egyptians living abroad ...

Posted by Snoozin (Member # 6244) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Merima:
You´re going to marry on January 1?!? "Mabrouk"! Or don´t you say that for a wedding but only for a newborn child?
Anyway, I sincerely congratulate and wish you and your husband-to-be all the best

Thank you. [Smile]

IF I marry on January 1, I get free fireworks each year for our anniversary. [Big Grin]

Posted by Watchdog33 (Member # 9766) on :

Masrawi:
I don't know what's with you and I??? You attack me every time I post a reply, and am very tired of it. You have no right to accuse me of anything; you don't know anything about me to accuse me of complexities. Read above, the word "Kaffir" is everywhere; did I put this in on my own? Stop the suck-ups and grow up, people like you on this board are the cause of these childish discussions, grow up. If you have something decent to say, or may positively contribute, say it, if you don’t, then shut up.

Posted by _Masrawi_ (Member # 9597) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Watchdog33:
Masrawi:
I don't know what's with you and I??? You attack me every time I post a reply, and am very tired of it. You have no right to accuse me of anything; you don't know anything about me to accuse me of complexities. Read above, the word "Kaffir" is everywhere; did I put this in on my own? Stop the suck-ups and grow up, people like you on this board are the cause of these childish discussions, grow up. If you have something decent to say, or may positively contribute, say it, if you don’t, then shut up.

First of, the word kaffir was mentioned as a bad example of what ignorance leads to and not as a form of "people kind a went off on religious attacks and name calling". Secondly, there were no personal attacks ... on the contrary, the discussion was very civilized . So, that means u didn't read any of the posts but simply skimmed them real quick. Now, that would have been ok with a certain level of intelligence, which is obviously not the case here ... having said that:

I do have something to say ... read before u bombard us with your absurdities.

Sincerely,

Masrawi

Posted by Snoozin (Member # 6244) on :

I think it's *group hug* time for you two! [Big Grin]

Posted by Watchdog33 (Member # 9766) on :

Ok Masrawi, I am not going to go over this again cause am tired of argument, so, being the "complex" Egyptian I am I say " El Hak Allya ya seedna, waddi rassak abosha"

Posted by Merima (Member # 9658) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Watchdog33:
Salam [/qb]

Most of the replies above were OK, its just calling every non-moslim "Kaffir" is offensive. Anyway, let's move forward. It sounds like the women in Bosnia have the same voice as the man, or at least close, unlike Egypt. I also agree with your statement that " it´s not always easy to fall in love with the "right" person,i.e. person with the "right" religion, you are 100% right, it happend to me, but, I had the power to say no to marriage. Regards. [/QB][/QUOTE]

I don´t think that Bosnian women have the same voice as the men, but they stand up for themselves.

Wow, you "had the power to say no" to a cross-religious marriage! I don´t know if I should be deeply impressed or just sad about it. (Sorry, if I got too personal here - you don´t have to reply)

Posted by _Masrawi_ (Member # 9597) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Watchdog33:
Ok Masrawi, I am not going to go over this again cause am tired of argument, so, being the "complex" Egyptian I am I say " El Hak Allya ya seedna, waddi rassak abosha"

No harm done.

just easy with the generalizations man ...

Posted by Watchdog33 (Member # 9766) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Merima:
I don´t think that Bosnian women have the same voice as the men, but they stand up for themselves.

Wow, you "had the power to say no" to a cross-religious marriage! I don´t know if I should be deeply impressed or just sad about it. (Sorry, if I got too personal here - you don´t have to reply) [/QB]

Merima;
No apologies needed, you are not being too personal at all. without going into details, the reason I did not marry her because I was affraid for her life, her family would have killed her,it was not easy.

Posted by ~Sharon Stone~ (Member # 5169) on :

Cross - religious couples.... can succeed if the are open-minded and understanding. They must have excellent communication skills to be able to express themselves and accept each other. A lots of work...If one
is religious and another one is not, it's much easier to blend... as one always care less...

The fact that someone is a Muslim or Christian on the paper, doesn't make him a Muslim or Christian in the real life.

Posted by ~Sharon Stone~ (Member # 5169) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Sadeeqy:
In the final analysis, it is between you and God. It was never between you and them anyway.

I recognozed the words of Mother Theresa. I admire her. [Big Grin]

Posted by Tiger1225 (Member # 9196) on :

quote:
Originally posted by _Masrawi_:

quote:
Originally posted by Watchdog33:
Masrawi:
I don't know what's with you and I??? You attack me every time I post a reply, and am very tired of it. You have no right to accuse me of anything; you don't know anything about me to accuse me of complexities. Read above, the word "Kaffir" is everywhere; did I put this in on my own? Stop the suck-ups and grow up, people like you on this board are the cause of these childish discussions, grow up. If you have something decent to say, or may positively contribute, say it, if you don’t, then shut up.
First of, the word kaffir was mentioned as a bad example of what ignorance leads to and not as a form of "people kind a went off on religious attacks and name calling". Secondly, there were no personal attacks ... on the contrary, the discussion was very civilized . So, that means u didn't read any of the posts but simply skimmed them real quick. Now, that would have been ok with a certain level of intelligence, which is obviously not the case here ... having said that:

I do have something to say ... read before u bombard us with your absurdities.

Sincerely,

Masrawi

Masrawi..I second that...

Posted by Natashiah (Member # 4566) on :

Since this topic is about opinions I have to add mine.My personal opinion....I do not agree with cross religious marriages...why?....too many complications....life is complicated enough.It's all sooo exciting and adventurous because of the differances between the two.Then 1 year down the line reality starts to bite....kids come...inlaws nag....blah blah blah.The usual crap!If you have the balls and feel you can make a success....go ahead but be very aware of the complications...especially at the time we live in....don't kid yourself into believing that things will change and that people will eventually accept things the way they are.

Posted by Watchdog33 (Member # 9766) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Natashiah:
Since this topic is about opinions I have to add mine.My personal opinion....I do not agree with cross religious marriages...why?....too many complications....life is complicated enough.It's all sooo exciting and adventurous because of the differances between the two.Then 1 year down the line reality starts to bite....kids come...inlaws nag....blah blah blah.The usual crap!If you have the balls and feel you can make a success....go ahead but be very aware of the complications...especially at the time we live in....don't kid yourself into believing that things will change and that people will eventually accept things the way they are.

I agree with you 100%. A friend of mine who was a Coptic Orthodox got married to a Catholic Christian girl. They had fights for years every Sunday over which church they should go to, not including the fights over the kids baptism whether they should be baptized Catholic or Orthodox. We are talking about 2 Christians who believe in the same God and share the same values and beliefs. Now imagine the same situation between a Moslem and a Christian? What a nightmare this can be. There is a hugh difference between dreams and reality…..

Posted by _Masrawi_ (Member # 9597) on :

Wathdog: Hence, the importance of the mentalities being the same ... in other words, the weight each one puts on different issues. So, in the case that u mentioned, these two people are religious, and therefore would not succeed in a cross-religion marriage. Had they been non-religious, then they would have worked around these minor complications.

Posted by Snoozin (Member # 6244) on :

You could compare it to child-rearing in a way...to prove the *mentality* issue.

One parent believes in spanking all the time; one parent would rather die than to even look at their child in a cross manner. That is definitely something *I* would be arguing over myself, and which could create a lot of discord in a marriage.... again, something to talk about *before* marriage, *before* kids, *before* going to church or the mosque...

Posted by _Masrawi_ (Member # 9597) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Snoozin:
You could compare it to child-rearing in a way...to prove the *mentality* issue.

One parent believes in spanking all the time; one parent would rather die than to even look at their child in a cross manner. That is definitely something *I* would be arguing over myself, and which could create a lot of discord in a marriage.... again, something to talk about *before* marriage, *before* kids, *before* going to church or the mosque...

that's it ... well said.

now, come over here and let me spank u. [Big Grin]

Posted by Watchdog33 (Member # 9766) on :

Masrawi: You are absolutely right, mentality, and not being too religious are a big factor, but then, the outside challenges such as family, and society pressures still remain in place, unless they do not exist where they live. Hey, we can agree on something :-)

Posted by Snoozin (Member # 6244) on :

quote:
Originally posted by _Masrawi_:
that's it ... well said.

now, come over here and let me spank u.

Dearheart, if there were a fight between us, you wouldn't stand a chance. [Razz]

Posted by Snoozin (Member # 6244) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Watchdog33:
Masrawi: You are absolutely right, mentality, and not being too religious are a big factor, but then, the outside challenges such as family, and society pressures still remain in place, unless they do not exist where they live. Hey, we can agree on something :-)

I agree that family pressure and pressure to conform is *huge* in Egypt compared to the US! [Eek!]

And I can't see that doing anything but cause problems in a couple's marriage...

Posted by _Masrawi_ (Member # 9597) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Watchdog33:
Masrawi: You are absolutely right, mentality, and not being too religious are a big factor, but then, the outside challenges such as family, and society pressures still remain in place, unless they do not exist where they live. Hey, we can agree on something :-)

But u see watchdog ... that's what i have been saying on this thread all along. And that is the reason why your earlier comments were out of place. anyway, ...

back to your post ... yes, it isn't easy to have a cross religious marriage in a country like Egypt. But then it isn't for your average joe ... u both need to be strong and believe in what u have.

Posted by _Masrawi_ (Member # 9597) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Snoozin:

quote:
Originally posted by _Masrawi_:
that's it ... well said.

now, come over here and let me spank u.
Dearheart, if there were a fight between us, you wouldn't stand a chance.

why? do u bite?

Posted by Snoozin (Member # 6244) on :

Like I would reveal my secrets.....please.... [Smile]

Posted by Merima (Member # 9658) on :

quote:
Originally posted by ~Sharon Stone~:
Cross - religious couples.... can succeed if the are open-minded and understanding. They must have excellent communication skills to be able to express themselves and accept each other. A lots of work...If one
is religious and another one is not, it's much easier to blend... as one always care less...

The fact that someone is a Muslim or Christian on the paper, doesn't make him a Muslim or Christian in the real life.

Since the couple deliberately decided to establish a family with somebody belongigng to another religion, both should be willing to work hard and overcome the differences so that this marriage can be successful.
I would say that the problems this couple has to face come from "outside", i.e. it´s more likely that their families and friends are the trouble makers who oppose this marriage.

Posted by Merima (Member # 9658) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Watchdog33:

quote:
Originally posted by Natashiah:
Since this topic is about opinions I have to add mine.My personal opinion....I do not agree with cross religious marriages...why?....too many complications....life is complicated enough.It's all sooo exciting and adventurous because of the differances between the two.Then 1 year down the line reality starts to bite....kids come...inlaws nag....blah blah blah.The usual crap!If you have the balls and feel you can make a success....go ahead but be very aware of the complications...especially at the time we live in....don't kid yourself into believing that things will change and that people will eventually accept things the way they are.
I agree with you 100%. A friend of mine who was a Coptic Orthodox got married to a Catholic Christian girl. They had fights for years every Sunday over which church they should go to, not including the fights over the kids baptism whether they should be baptized Catholic or Orthodox. We are talking about 2 Christians who believe in the same God and share the same values and beliefs. Now imagine the same situation between a Moslem and a Christian? What a nightmare this can be. There is a hugh difference between dreams and reality…..

I have to admit that I absolutely understand your point. I guess, this is what "real life" is about. but at the same time, I feel sad that reality is so tough and relentless [Frown]

Posted by karla (Member # 5472) on :

Cross - religious couples have succeed when the person involved are be aware of difference among their religions and when they trying to accept and to understand each other. This is my opinion!