There is something medieval about the urge always to blame other women for their men's perfidies
Why do we always blame the other woman when men have an affair? By CAROL SARLER - More by this author » Last updated at 09:03am on 4th October 2007
So here we go again: two women, down and dirty in the gutter, spitting and scratching their way through an almighty catfight, just as - you can be quite sure - the lads love to see us.
Christine Hilliard, in the normally genteel surrounds of Weston-super- Mare, discovered that her fiancé was having an affair with their neighbour, a glamorous woman by the name of Jenny Kinch.
Enraged beyond sense, Christine wrote 50 letters and posted them around the whole area, telling all who would read them that Jenny is "a cheap slut and a man-stealer".
Jenny replied caustically that Christine was "a bunny boiler".
Miaow. Ladies, please!
What is so drearily predictable about the spat is that Miss Hilliard's hatred is directed not at the erring fiancé, Paul Muldoon — all she did to him was to help him pack his stuff — but at Miss Kinch.
It seems that they live on some strange planet where it takes one to tango.
This is a peculiar habit of betrayed women and their supporters. When Kylie Minogue's on-off boyfriend Olivier Martinez was apparently caught out with actress Sarai Givati, women around the globe (and it is women who get het up about it; very rarely do men get more agitated than a saucy chuckle) became indignant on Kylie's behalf: this woman, they all agreed, "stole" the man.
In vain did Givati point out that men aren't suitcases: you can't just pick them up and walk off with them.
But nobody was particularly interested in her plea. Meanwhile, Martinez said nothing at all; he didn't need to.
When Brad Pitt left Jennifer Aniston and later set up home with Angelina Jolie, women across the U.S. wore T-shirts declaring them members of "Team Aniston" or "Team Jolie" — the first, naturally, far out-numbering the second.
Again, not a word about Brad, who had only to walk down a street to see signs of two gorgeous women seemingly fighting over him. What an ego boost.
Anthea Turner's entire career fell to bits when she, too, became "the other woman" and "stole" Della Bovey's husband Grant.
Until that story broke, probably the worst thing anybody had ever said about television's golden girl was by her GMTV cohost Eamonn Holmes, when he famously dubbed her "Princess Tippy-Toes".
Suddenly, however, she became a "home-wrecker" and a "harlot" and, within weeks, she had toppled from her pedestal into the professional mire.
Bovey? Oh, he's doing fine, thanks.
Most famously, the memorial service in August for Princess Diana may well be best remembered for the row over whether it would have been appropriate for Camilla, the Duchess of Cornwall — the "third" person in Diana's marriage — to have attended.
It wouldn't have been, and it was right that she did not.
But not an eyebrow was raised at Charles's presence: despite the fact that it was he and not Camilla who had made sacred promises to Diana, then broken them (and her heart) by cheating on her.
One of the —very many — reasons that women by the million hate Heather Mills McCartney as much as we do is that there is a perception that by marrying Sir Paul so soon after Linda's death she was somehow stomping on Linda's memory.
Yet if we were to be logical, we would recall that Heather never met Linda, so she has no memory of her; if any stomping has been done, it is by the same Sir Paul whom women still adore.
There is something medieval about the urge among women always to blame other women for their men's perfidies.
It takes us back to a belief in witches and the casting of dark spells so enchanting that a mere mortal male cannot be expected to resist them.
Quick, fetch that ducking stool. Why this interpretation of events in a wronged woman's mind is so appealing is understandable.
If a witch "steals" the man, he couldn't help himself, and so he didn't really want to cast you off like an old sock.
If another equally ordinary human "steals" him — picks him up, as Sarai Givati put it, like walking off with somebody else's suitcase — then you might be forced to wonder why you ever invested time in such a weak-willed, passive lump in the first place.
More difficult still: if you accept that the other woman is just as human as you are, it invites the uncomfortable question: what has she got that you haven't?
The trouble is, if you flail around in the undignified manner currently employed by Christine Hilliard of Weston-super-Mare, that is the question you put into other people's heads, too.
Even I found myself comparing pictures in the Mail of her and Jenny Kinch and thinking, well, on balance, I can see why the man might have been tempted.
I am not suggesting that a woman should try to overcome her hatred for her rival.
The initial jealousy she might feel of the new woman will lead to the realisation of her loss, and this, in turn, to hatred; this is only natural and such emotions should be indulged until time heals her wounds.
But when it comes to assigning blame, lay it on the shoulders of the person to whom it rightly belongs: his.
So much classier, so much more stylish, so much more fun.
Where Christine Hilliard is just making a fool of herself, Lady Sarah Moon made herself into an icon in the early 1990s.
Upon discovering her husband's philanderings, she cut off one sleeve of each of his 32 bespoke Savile Row suits, poured five litres of white paint over his BMW and, best of all, emptied his cherished wine cellar to leave a costly bottle of claret on each of the neighbours' doorsteps.
Attagirl!
And if following that woman's carefully-targeted example doesn't calm your rage, there's always another's to bear in mind.
Her name was Lorena Bobbitt.
web page Posted by With a name like Smuckers (Member # 10289) on :
Strange, my first reaction is always to blame the man...I have to force myself not to.
Oh Lorena Bobbitt, don't remind me of that freak show. Posted by doodlebug (Member # 11649) on :
This is a tough one for me. My husband left me for another woman and is married to her today. I have had to suck up my feelings of hatred due to the fact that she is my kids' stepmom and they've known her since they were one and two years old. I don't want them to feel guilty about loving her, you know?
BUT...............I do blame her just as much as I blame him. He's not off the hook by any means but she is just as much to blame. She knew not only that he was married but that he had JUST had a new baby when they met and yet she went over to his shop every single day to flirt with him. Obviously he should have kept his pants on and when it got too much he should have told her to stop coming around, etc. but she did keep on coming around. I'd say it's 50/50 as far as the blame goes.
Posted by With a name like Smuckers (Member # 10289) on :
I totally don't agree with that, let the kids know what kind of a person he married, don't let her off the hook and I would personally refuse to let my children be with somebody like that. What is it with people today? Don't want them to feel guilty about loving her?? Is there no accountability anymore? Sorry but she and your ex screwed up their lives, and yet they are protected for the kids sake? Too late for the kids sake, at least show your children that you do NOT accept or congratulate that behavior by acting like it's all 'normal'.
Posted by doodlebug (Member # 11649) on :
ouch. Well I guess differing opinions is what makes the world go around. My children have a father and no matter how wrong he may have been he is still their dad and they see him every other weekend and every Wednesday night. I in no way want them to dread seeing him or dread being with her. What kind of life is that for a child? To grow up thinking their dad and stepmom is scum?
One of the first things one must do here in Massachusetts before getting a legal divorce is to take a class on parenting in this situation and the main thing drilled into us is not to drag the children into our drama. They did not ask to be brought into this situation and they should live as much of a normal life as possible. They are half their father, after all, and if they grow up thinking that their dad is a bad guy then they will think that of themselves to some extent. I'm not just spouting off my own theory here, this is what a few counselors have told me.
Obviously I don't congratulate his behavior or hers. Not like I call him up everyday saying, "hey you know when you were having sex with your wife while I was up at night doing the feedings? Good job honey!!!". My children know what happened now, though when they were little they were too young to comprehend it obviously at one and two years of age. They also know that mommy forgives daddy and his wife and that makes it easier for them to love them, as they should.
Posted by Politically Incorrect (Member # 14181) on :
quote:Originally posted by doodlebug: This is a tough one for me. My husband left me for another woman and is married to her today. I have had to suck up my feelings of hatred due to the fact that she is my kids' stepmom and they've known her since they were one and two years old. I don't want them to feel guilty about loving her, you know?
God bless you.
Posted by desertgirl (Member # 12450) on :
yes, doodlebug. Lots of courage. I think you deal with the whole situation in a very mature way. I don't think I would be so nice to "the other woman"... but ok, for the kids'sake it is probably better not to scratch her eyes out. I really hope you found your own happiness again.
Posted by soozi (Member # 11108) on :
Doodlebug - I'm with you on this! I grew up knowing that my dad was living with another woman. Who I got on with without a problem, but it was really awkward when returning home and not knowing whether I should mention her name or not to my mother. This is because she never got mentioned, so we didn't know how to handle the situation as 10year olds.
It also became a problem at weddings and birthday partys as young adults - needing to include our step mother, but not wanting to upset our mum.
Good on you!
Posted by Mother War (Member # 8386) on :
I'm sorry but I disagree with you on this one. I've never been in this situation but I do have two children about the same age as doodlebug's children. I would've done the same. The children will know the truth in time but at their ages it's not necessary to get into the messy details. Children are innocent and when they love they love from their whole hearts, there's no need to pollute this now. When they're more mature and grown they can know what the truth is and can deal with it accordingly. I don't mean lie to them but coming out and telling them how everything went down is really not appropriate now. Being a child with divorced parents is hard enough on its own.
quote:Originally posted by With a name like Smuckers: I totally don't agree with that, let the kids know what kind of a person he married, don't let her off the hook and I would personally refuse to let my children be with somebody like that. What is it with people today? Don't want them to feel guilty about loving her?? Is there no accountability anymore? Sorry but she and your ex screwed up their lives, and yet they are protected for the kids sake? Too late for the kids sake, at least show your children that you do NOT accept or congratulate that behavior by acting like it's all 'normal'.
Posted by With a name like Smuckers (Member # 10289) on :
DB, I didn't mean to get an ouch response from you, sorry. I was simply trying to convey that when a man cheats on his wife (and children) and takes the "other" woman to start a life with (don't get me started on this foolish behavior), I think it is wrong to hide it from the kids. I mean sure, if the children are VERY young, they wouldn't understand. But in this case why would I allow my children to be around and taught "morals" from a woman who brought heartache into their lives? Unfortunately the legal system in the states wouldn't see it that way and you wouldn't have much choice as far as child support and visitation went.
Thankfully these relationships rarely last when built upon infidelity but the damage is already done to the kids. Their families are broken, they feel inadequate and insecure and are taught that shacking up with the cheated woman while mom/dad stays jilted and smiles is normal. Gag.
Posted by soozi (Member # 11108) on :
quote:Originally posted by With a name like Smuckers: Thankfully these relationships rarely last when built upon infidelity but the damage is already done to the kids. Their families are broken, they feel inadequate and insecure and are taught that shacking up with the cheated woman while mom/dad stays jilted and smiles is normal. Gag.
That isn't strictly true though. As said above, I come from a broken home, and grew up going on holidays with my dad and his new partner. Never have I believed that this is right, nor normal. I have accepted it as my life, and got on with things.
And the reason that I did (and still do) spend time with somebody who my mum never approved of, is because she makes my dad happy, and is therefore part of his life. If I was incapable of accepting this, where would it leave my relationship with my father?
Posted by Karah_Mia (Member # 4668) on :
Blaming another woman is deepening one's defeat by denial.
Posted by With a name like Smuckers (Member # 10289) on :
Your father married a woman he cheated on your mother with? Posted by SayWhatYouSee (Member # 11552) on :
Originally posted by With a name like Smuckers: ''Strange, my first reaction is always to blame the man...I have to force myself not to''
I agree with Smucker's initial reaction. To blame the other woman deflects attention from the most obvious party. At the most basic level, the man has a contract or commitment to his wife. The other woman hasn't broken the terms of that contract - the married man has. In the case of men, they should primarily blame their wife, not the other man involved. I am fortunate that I've never experienced the heartbreak of a partner cheating but some of my friends have. The ones who focused the blame squarely on their partner recovered more fully - perhaps because they didn't waste even more energy blaming two people.
Where there are children involved it is much more complex, especially when a spouse leaves to set up a life with the other person. I have admiration for those who make this work, for the sake of their innocent kids. To have to deal with two people who have hurt you, on a regular basis, must be a trial - especially as human instinct for most would be to never want to see them again.
Posted by soozi (Member # 11108) on :
quote:Originally posted by With a name like Smuckers: Your father married a woman he cheated on your mother with?
Yes, well set up home with shall we say, rather than married.
Thanks for that phrase SWYS, it puts it politely! Posted by cairobug (Member # 10571) on :
quote:Originally posted by doodlebug: This is a tough one for me. My husband left me for another woman and is married to her today. I have had to suck up my feelings of hatred due to the fact that she is my kids' stepmom and they've known her since they were one and two years old. I don't want them to feel guilty about loving her, you know?
I think that's really very mature of you, and it must be alot of pressure to deal with that. I have a friend who grew up very sheltered with an amazing father and a stepmother, and she's from a somewhat very tightknit and overly critical culture (no she's not egyptian ) who had her mom leave the family and do what your exhusband did. She was pretty much sheltered her entire life from what her mother did, and her father raised her in an absolutely amazing way. When she was older and found out the truth (which came as a shock to everyone, her, me, etc), she had a newfound respect for her father for not letting his feelings get in the way of raising her and influencing her. I still see her dad as an amazing person, who's truly blessed to have such a daughter.
Posted by lovingmylife (Member # 13695) on :
Why would you allow another woman to influence your children if she and your "husband" did not care about you and your family ( and your children ), how is it possible now for "them" to care for your children genuinly and raise them with good ethics, when they broke up the family in the 1st place?
Let me tell you this.
My child would not live in the same house with a woman who broke my family and a husband who "left/abanondend" me as his wife.
I would sell everything I own to legally fight and I would make this my life goal, and my family, brother, cousins and all friends and people I ever knew in my life, would support me in this.
I would take the child with me and let him live with whomever he wants. I would not tell my child anything bad about him, but my child would know when they grow up that one of the reasons why our life is/was without 100% full presence of the Dad was - HIS CHOICES IN HIS LIFE.
There are consequences for cheating and one of these are: when you cheat you lose your children.
Only then when he weighs potential gains and loss, he maybe then have a chance to change as he would see how much it costs to sleep with another woman behind his wife's back. How else would he learn otherwise?
He would have to ask for forgiveness, and apologize genuinly and to take 100% full responsibility before I would even consider talking about any 'relationship' after this point whatsoever.
My child could have another dad, not necessarily a sperm donor. I still believe my judgments when it comes to a man, and although I can't guarantee that a man would not cheat, I do guarantee that I would stand up for my beliefs and demand him to take 100% full responsibility for his actions, towards himself, others, me, kids, family, and world in general.
My life and my child's life would certainly be phenomenal weather or not he is with us, and he would be a loser at the end because I could always find another Dad, husband, lover, friend.
Posted by soozi (Member # 11108) on :
And the consequence of losing your children, is that your children lose you.
This has a major impact on the child as well as the father. NOT GOOD!
Posted by Wanderer (Member # 13923) on :
I agree 100% with Soozi and Doodlebug.
It takes immense selflessness to do what Doodlebug has done, she must have been so torn, but put her childrens need for their father - despite what he had done to her, in front of her own anger - THAT is what makes good parents IMO. (I dont know how easy I would find this, but i would like to think i would try)
Men and women can be weak and make wrong decisions, I dont believe that this should prevent them seeing their children, o.k so in the moral department he and 'the other woman' didnt score many points here, but that doesnt mean they are evil people with no good qualities.
A lot of people make mistakes like this and that is real life, people are not perfect. Doodle bug is absolutely right to blame BOTH of them, I really do take my hat off to you Doodlebug for the way you have handled this situation, if there were more parents putting their kids first in this way, there would be more happy kids.
It would be very wrong to tell young children all the gorey details and even speak badly about the other parent, all that does is throw the kids bang smack in the middle and they end up with more problems, the kids would end up full of anger, resentment, bitterness, instability, torn between two parents they love and they just want everything to be o.k. Better just to be honest with them in terms of, 'mummy and daddy have decided not to be with each other anymore'.
Some men are just weak in the trouser department, that doesnt mean they are bad people, usually they are not even thinking about what they will lose. At the end of the day he will make his bed and lie in it, he has ended up with a woman with less morals and maturity than the mother of his children - I think that is punishment enough Posted by lovingmylife (Member # 13695) on :
Why would you be concerned about cheating father and what impact his life choices has on him? He is adult. He knew consequences, did not he?
Posted by Wanderer (Member # 13923) on :
I cant really understand your post lovingmylife - but if your asking why be concerned about a father who has cheated on his wife, the answer would be because he is your childrens father and he is a human being. Everyone makes mistakes, everyone has faults, no one is perfect and makes the right decisions all of the time.
I wouldnt be condoning what he did, and i wouldnt stay with him, but i would see it as a husband/wife decision, not a father/child one.
Posted by lovingmylife (Member # 13695) on :
quote:Originally posted by Wanderer: It takes immense selflessness
To put the child to live in the same House with immoral father and his new lover is actullay bad idea.
You are depriving the child of being raised morally and in accord with moral values and beliefs thus this will totally ruin the child's sense of what's morally acceptable and what's not because children do seek approvals and see their mom and dad as role models.
Child could of have relationship with father after father apologize and accepts full reponsibility for his actions and choices in his life, but this in no means would mean that child would live in the same house with people who have no moral values, and see them as "role models".
If I were that child, I would be totally dissapointed if anyone would leave me in such arraingment.
Posted by With a name like Smuckers (Member # 10289) on :
I can't believe I'm saying this but I agree with LML.
You ladies, for some reason, seem to think that it is YOUR burden to keep on protecting the children when you don't realize they're already scarred. It isn't exactly condoning what HE did as much as it is a lesson for your children, one the husband isn't able to teach because he's too busy proving to his OWN CHILDREN that they don't matter as much as the new piece of a** that he's shacking up with.
I'm not saying that allowing the children to have this 'other woman' as a step parent is going to severely mess them up, no....that isn't the point. The point is that I question STRONGLY her ability to teach them morality AND the message the children are going to get (perhaps in their subconscience) is that they come 2nd, a parent will leave you and mom for someone else, you aren't good enough, and MOM has to sit back and take it and smile and act like this is all normal and she condones what daddy did, and allows the other woman to move on in on the relationship you have all cultivated over the years.
Intellectually I could understand not wanting to screw the kids up more, protecting the kids, etc. I don't think that's a possibility. You're wanting to be the hero and you're using the child to hide behind what you don't want to face up to, which is the fact that our soceity doesn't permit for cheaters and marriage wreckers to be held accountable. Thus, the children witness it, see it as normal and grow up thinking, 'look how great I turned out'. How much better could they have been if Mom had sent that clear message that it ISN'T normal, it isn't acceptable and that she refuses her children to be raised by just anyone?
Posted by lovingmylife (Member # 13695) on :
quote:Originally posted by Wanderer: I cant really understand your post lovingmylife - but if your asking why be concerned about a father who has cheated on his wife, the answer would be because he is your childrens father and he is a human being. Everyone makes mistakes, everyone has faults, no one is perfect and makes the right decisions all of the time.
I wouldnt be condoning what he did, and i wouldnt stay with him, but i would see it as a husband/wife decision, not a father/child one.
Then you deserve to be cheated because you think you don't deserve any better.
If I were a man and you tell me this, I would not respect you because you see no difference and value between a faithful and responsible husband and cheating one.
It's not the same, thus why would you respond the same. People make mistakes but people TAKE RESPONSIBILITIES for mistakes.
A man must be reponsible for his choices and if you accept all, even when he brakes heart of your own child, without asking him to take 100% responsibility for his actions towards you, children, others and world, than I would question your state of mind if you see this as if he had done nothing.
Do you at least find people accountable for their actions? It's not condoning it's asking him to step up and fully acknowledge he made a mistake and take responsibility for his actions.
Posted by Almaz. (Member # 14025) on :
quote:Originally posted by lovingmylife:
quote:Originally posted by Wanderer: I cant really understand your post lovingmylife - but if your asking why be concerned about a father who has cheated on his wife, the answer would be because he is your childrens father and he is a human being. Everyone makes mistakes, everyone has faults, no one is perfect and makes the right decisions all of the time.
I wouldnt be condoning what he did, and i wouldnt stay with him, but i would see it as a husband/wife decision, not a father/child one.
Then you deserve to be cheated because you think you don't deserve any better.
If I were a man and you tell me this, I would not respect you because you see no difference and value between a faithful and responsible husband and cheating one.
It's not the same, thus why would you respond the same. People make mistakes but people TAKE RESPONSIBILITIES for mistakes.
A man must be reponsible for his choices and if you accept all, even when he brakes heart of your own child, without asking him to take 100% responsibility for his actions towards you, children, others and world, than I would question your state of mind if you see this as if he had done nothing.
Do you at least find people accountable for their actions? It's not condoning it's asking him to step up and fully acknowledge he made a mistake and take responsibility for his actions.
LML, I wish you would express your feelings in a less 'harsh' way! The TONE of your posts are sometimes so so insensitive! Thank you.
Posted by With a name like Smuckers (Member # 10289) on :
quote:Originally posted by lovingmylife:
quote:Originally posted by Wanderer: I cant really understand your post lovingmylife - but if your asking why be concerned about a father who has cheated on his wife, the answer would be because he is your childrens father and he is a human being. Everyone makes mistakes, everyone has faults, no one is perfect and makes the right decisions all of the time.
I wouldnt be condoning what he did, and i wouldnt stay with him, but i would see it as a husband/wife decision, not a father/child one.
Then you deserve to be cheated because you think you don't deserve any better.
If I were a man and you tell me this, I would not respect you because you see no difference and value between a faithful and responsible husband and cheating one.
It's not the same, thus why would you respond the same. People make mistakes but people TAKE RESPONSIBILITIES for mistakes.
A man must be reponsible for his choices and if you accept all, even when he brakes heart of your own child, without asking him to take 100% responsibility for his actions towards you, children, others and world, than I would question your state of mind if you see this as if he had done nothing.
Do you at least find people accountable for their actions? It's not condoning it's asking him to step up and fully acknowledge he made a mistake and take responsibility for his actions.
I agree with Almaz, your tone is way out of line. Nobody deserves to be cheated on and just because she tells her husband how she feels doesn't mean he's going to cheat on her and marry the other woman. THAT is a character issue, don't put it on the INNOCENT one who gets cheated on.
Posted by lovingmylife (Member # 13695) on :
quote:Originally posted by With a name like Smuckers: I can't believe I'm saying this but I agree with LML.
Well we can't disagree or agree on everything. Posted by Wanderer (Member # 13923) on :
ok, LML, now you have p***ed me off.
No one deserves to be cheated on you silly woman.
did i say that I didnt think he should take any responsibility? er no...
Taking responsibility does not mean refusing for the children to have anything to do with their father, who exactly are you punishing?
"If I were a man and you tell me this, I would not respect you because you see no difference and value between a faithful and responsible husband and cheating one"
Another stupid statement, of course i see a difference, did i not say that I would not STAY with a man who cheated??
"People make mistakes but people TAKE RESPONSIBILITIES for mistakes." And it is for you to judge him on his mistake is it? it is your job to decide for those children that his mistake meant he shouldnt see them anymore?
I am beginning to wonder whether you think you have ever made a mistake, what is it like up there in your ivory tower, mind you dont fall!
LML, please add me to your ignore list.
SMUCKERS
"and MOM has to sit back and take it and smile and act like this is all normal and she condones what daddy did"
no, mum doesn't have to sit back and smile, but moving on and accepting that its not all about her and him is something she can do.
people that make a bad moral decision in one area of life eg. relationships, does not mean that they are morally wrong in all areas.
Posted by With a name like Smuckers (Member # 10289) on :
quote: SMUCKERS
"and MOM has to sit back and take it and smile and act like this is all normal and she condones what daddy did"
no, mum doesn't have to sit back and smile, but moving on and accepting that its not all about her and him is something she can do.
people that make a bad moral decision in one area of life eg. relationships, does not mean that they are morally wrong in all areas.
True, it isn't about HER it's about her children. Of course the other womans moral mistakes can be viewed as an OOPS bad moral decision, but it is the actions of the husband/father that make it inexcuseable. I'm not suggesting to keep the children from seeing their father, that is their right. My issue is solely with the other woman that is to become their step mother....repulsive IMO.
Posted by lovingmylife (Member # 13695) on :
quote:Originally posted by Almaz.: LML, I wish you would express your feelings in a less 'harsh' way! The TONE of your posts are sometimes so so insensitive! Thank you.
Almaz, You like people to baby you all the time.
Read between the lines. I simply said that - if you tell a man, what she told me, he would take it as if she saying cheating is ok because people make mistakes.
Thus with such ideas, she attracts cheating men.
I know what she said, she said she would not be with such man, but she would be concerned about effects his cheating had on him,( even if he was the one who cheated and chose this in the 1st place ) based on the fact that he is "child's dad".
So in my opinion I see no accountability here, thus man hears - GREEN LIGHT HERE.
He sees no consequences.
Why do we have laws, regulations and policies?
Because if we don't people would do whatever they want.
It's not about "love, love". It's about principals. You as a woman don't accept cheating and if he does it, he will be suffering consequences, let him think on his own what that means. Posted by Wanderer (Member # 13923) on :
quote:Originally posted by With a name like Smuckers:
quote: SMUCKERS
"and MOM has to sit back and take it and smile and act like this is all normal and she condones what daddy did"
no, mum doesn't have to sit back and smile, but moving on and accepting that its not all about her and him is something she can do.
people that make a bad moral decision in one area of life eg. relationships, does not mean that they are morally wrong in all areas.
True, it isn't about HER it's about her children. Of course the other womans moral mistakes can be viewed as an OOPS bad moral decision, but it is the actions of the husband/father that make it inexcuseable. I'm not suggesting to keep the children from seeing their father, that is their right. My issue is solely with the other woman that is to become their step mother....repulsive IMO.
Of course it isn't nice, but once a mum and dad split up, the ex wife is in no position to control who the man shacks up with, that is his life and his responsibility as a father, as women we cannot control that. If you do try to control who he is with by restricting access to his kids then all the kids will learn is that YOU have a problem with HIM. They will not thank you for it.
of course you have to restrict access when it comes to dangers, i.e drugs or abuse, but making bad moral judgements in one instance regarding their father is not emotional abuse or neglect, where would you draw the line?
Posted by Almaz. (Member # 14025) on :
quote:Originally posted by lovingmylife:
quote:Originally posted by Almaz.: LML, I wish you would express your feelings in a less 'harsh' way! The TONE of your posts are sometimes so so insensitive! Thank you.
Almaz, You like people to baby you all the time.
Read between the lines. I simply said that - if you tell a man, what she told me, he would take it as if she saying cheating is ok because people make mistakes.
Thus with such ideas, she attracts cheating men.
I know what she said, she said she would not be with such man, but she would be concerned about effects ( his cheating had on him and family ),( even if he was the one who cheated and chose this in the 1st place ) based on the fact that he is "child's dad".
So in my opinion I see no accountability here, thus man hear - GREEN LIGHT HERE.
He sees no consequences.
Why do we have laws, regulations and policies?
Because if we don't people would do whatever they want.
It's not about "love, love". It's about principals. You as a woman don't accept cheating and if he does it, he will be suffering consequences, let him think on his own what that means.
No LML I don't like people to 'baby' me all the time. I like people to respect each other and not underestimate people's intelligence. I like to see that 'intelligent' people like you get credit, but when they have a very insensitive tone, and throw commands, judgements and stones around them, I feel it blinds everyone else to 'read between the lines' of their intelligence!
You have some extremely valid comments, in my opinion, on different subjects, but I have to read them many times to get 'pass' the extremely harsh tone.
I know you are a very good person, but you make it difficult on us to appreciate it.
YOU MAY SAY YOU DON'T CARE, but if that was true why do you contribute here?
Posted by With a name like Smuckers (Member # 10289) on :
quote:Originally posted by lovingmylife:
quote:Originally posted by Almaz.: LML, I wish you would express your feelings in a less 'harsh' way! The TONE of your posts are sometimes so so insensitive! Thank you.
Almaz, You like people to baby you all the time.
Read between the lines. I simply said that - if you tell a man, what she told me, he would take it as if she saying cheating is ok because people make mistakes.
Thus with such ideas, she attracts cheating men.
I know what she said, she said she would not be with such man, but she would be concerned about effects his cheating had on him,( even if he was the one who cheated and chose this in the 1st place ) based on the fact that he is "child's dad".
So in my opinion I see no accountability here, thus man hears - GREEN LIGHT HERE.
He sees no consequences.
Why do we have laws, regulations and policies?
Because if we don't people would do whatever they want.
It's not about "love, love". It's about principals. You as a woman don't accept cheating and if he does it, he will be suffering consequences, let him think on his own what that means.
LML, it is my opinion that you lose in your arguments because you are unable to express yourself without being too rough. It doesn't have anything to do with someone wanting to be 'babied'. We are all talking about 'what if' here, not something that actually happened. I would guess it is your lack of understanding of English but your English seems to be that of someone of native origin so I can't guess that is it. You need to look up the word TACT, it is the ability to convey your feelings without hurting the other person. You are not very good with this from what I have seen. You can't make someone listen to your point of view when all they see are your insults and rude comments.
Posted by With a name like Smuckers (Member # 10289) on :
quote:Originally posted by Wanderer:
quote:Originally posted by With a name like Smuckers:
quote: SMUCKERS
"and MOM has to sit back and take it and smile and act like this is all normal and she condones what daddy did"
no, mum doesn't have to sit back and smile, but moving on and accepting that its not all about her and him is something she can do.
people that make a bad moral decision in one area of life eg. relationships, does not mean that they are morally wrong in all areas.
True, it isn't about HER it's about her children. Of course the other womans moral mistakes can be viewed as an OOPS bad moral decision, but it is the actions of the husband/father that make it inexcuseable. I'm not suggesting to keep the children from seeing their father, that is their right. My issue is solely with the other woman that is to become their step mother....repulsive IMO.
Of course it isn't nice, but once a mum and dad split up, the ex wife is in no position to control who the man shacks up with, that is his life and his responsibility as a father, as women we cannot control that. If you do try to control who he is with by restricting access to his kids then all the kids will learn is that YOU have a problem with HIM. They will not thank you for it.
of course you have to restrict access when it comes to dangers, i.e drugs or abuse, but making bad moral judgements in one instance regarding their father is not emotional abuse or neglect, where would you draw the line?
I draw the line at the woman who broke up our family and tore my childrens lives in half.
But, we can agree to disagree. I am used to not having many who agree with me in this issue, it's a difficult and sensitive subject, I know. Salaam. Posted by Wanderer (Member # 13923) on :
Its ok Smuckers, I dont take offense at your comments. The way I see it is:
I would not blame the woman MORE than the man, they are both equally to blame, so i guess i dont see it as 'she broke up the family' but more 'they broke up the family' in fact, I would be more angry at him.
not saying I would like her, or him, OR find the situation easy AT ALL, I would have to constantly refrain from slapping them both - but I feel I would have to try and be distant from my emotions towards them, if that makes any sense.
Posted by Pink cherry (Member # 13979) on :
Just another thought here..
The title of this thread is... Why do we blame the other woman when a man strays?
I might be wrong here but no on has mentioned 'why the man might stray' More often than not the relationship has broken down for one reason or another....very often through lack of communication...BEFORE the other woman appears.
So I think it is wrong to always blame 'the other woman' all the time Remember it takes two to tango, and to make a relationship
Don't get me wrong I have been down the road where the other woman has shown her face. But once you sit down and trace back how the original relationship had been developing there will be signs that all was not well..... Posted by Almaz. (Member # 14025) on :
quote:Originally posted by Wanderer: Its ok Smuckers, I dont take offense at your comments. The way I see it is:
I would not blame the woman MORE than the man, they are both equally to blame, so i guess i dont see it as 'she broke up the family' but more 'they broke up the family' in fact, I would be more angry at him.
not saying I would like her, or him, OR find the situation easy AT ALL, I would have to constantly refrain from slapping them both - but I feel I would have to try and be distant from my emotions towards them, if that makes any sense.
One of my good friends was telling me that when she discovered her husband was cheating on her, she packed his things and sent them to his mom's and changed the locks. That was the end of that.
The children visiting the dad and the rest of the negotiations were done through the parents. She never even said a word to him again ( been 3 years now). And they were deeply in love at one point! Sad. I would act the same in this situation.
Posted by With a name like Smuckers (Member # 10289) on :
quote:Originally posted by Wanderer: Its ok Smuckers, I dont take offense at your comments. The way I see it is:
I would not blame the woman MORE than the man, they are both equally to blame, so i guess i dont see it as 'she broke up the family' but more 'they broke up the family' in fact, I would be more angry at him.
not saying I would like her, or him, OR find the situation easy AT ALL, I would have to constantly refrain from slapping them both - but I feel I would have to try and be distant from my emotions towards them, if that makes any sense.
Point taken. Posted by soozi (Member # 11108) on :
Have I missed something, but I can't find anywhere, people talking about the child living with the cheating party and his new partner - but being in good contact with their parent.
quote:Originally posted by With a name like Smuckers: Thus, the children witness it, see it as normal and grow up thinking, 'look how great I turned out'. How much better could they have been if Mom had sent that clear message that it ISN'T normal, it isn't acceptable and that she refuses her children to be raised by just anyone?
I have said this before, and I will say it again - I think this is sooooo untrue. Because a child is exposed to a cheating parent, does not make them think it is ok to cheat, or that it is normal. If handled correctly and taught about the situation by both parents, an understanding can be formed, and the child can grow with good morals and principals.
I was a relatively young child when my situation arose, but never ever would I cheat on someone - nor would I remain in a relationship with someone who had cheated on me.
Give the kids some credit! Posted by Wanderer (Member # 13923) on :
quote:Originally posted by Almaz.:
quote:Originally posted by Wanderer: Its ok Smuckers, I dont take offense at your comments. The way I see it is:
I would not blame the woman MORE than the man, they are both equally to blame, so i guess i dont see it as 'she broke up the family' but more 'they broke up the family' in fact, I would be more angry at him.
not saying I would like her, or him, OR find the situation easy AT ALL, I would have to constantly refrain from slapping them both - but I feel I would have to try and be distant from my emotions towards them, if that makes any sense.
One of my good friends was telling me that when she discovered her husband was cheating on her, she packed his things and sent them to his mom's and changed the locks. That was the end of that.
The children visiting the dad and the rest of the negotiations were done through the parents. She never even said a word to him again ( been 3 years now). And they were deeply in love at one point! Sad. I would act the same in this situation.
It is sad, because I just think that life is too short for this, As pink cherry said. If the relationship was meant to be then I dont believe these things would happen.
I have also known women that have carried around the bitterness forever, and stopped their child seeing their father. Even when they are displaying so much anger about the father, then saying to the child 'your just like your father' and 'he's a S**T' etc. Its so upsetting to watch people carry around so much anger and resentment. What usually happens is the children grow up and make up their own mind, they need to get to know their father, warts and all, and womens lives can continue without being with someone they cant trust.
I agree Soozi - and also, it DOES make a difference whether the 'cheater' is a serial cheater or this is a one time thing.
I had another friend who's dad had an affair, he and her mum split up and the daughter didnt speak to her dad for years. The dad and the 'other woman' went on to marry and stayed together for twenty years or so. The daughter (my friend) got back in touch with her dad a few years ago, started seeing him again, now that she is an adult.
Then he died suddenly in a car accident - she missed all those years Posted by With a name like Smuckers (Member # 10289) on :
I give children NO credit, they are children otherwise let's let them raise themselves.
I do believe the topic changed a bit to what happens if the cheating man marries the woman he cheated with. I'm not sure how.
Anyway, we're not all going to agree here. My father married another, not anyone he cheated with, and my mother and step mother got along very well and were even (dare I say?) friends. No two situations are alike, I guess it just boils down to what you're willing to put up with. That being said, I'm off to make a sandwich. Posted by soozi (Member # 11108) on :
Happy eating Posted by Wanderer (Member # 13923) on :
quote:Originally posted by With a name like Smuckers: I give children NO credit, they are children otherwise let's let them raise themselves.
I dont mean to interrupt your sandwich, but maybe this is what divides us in our thinking. I agree that children need decisions made for them, but to an extent. I think we need to encourage independant thought and reasoning and this cannot happen until we step back and allow them to experience life themselves, without making all their decisions for them Posted by lovingmylife (Member # 13695) on :
quote:Originally posted by Almaz.: No LML I don't like people to 'baby' me all the time.
Actually you do. Do you think that "all your views" on different topic are very sensitive? I have read tons of things you wrote and found myself million times in shock. Have I ever told you how harsh you were when you said that Egyptian women who asked personal questions were "uncivillized and of low class" while when some western woman asked a girl if she slept with her SO you said nothing.
I am not here to please and baby you. You got to find a man to do that, I am a woman who speaks her mind and I do so just like everyone else. Now don't tell me that you haven't noticed how many times your friends used bad words towards me and interestingly you haven't mentioned anything about - respect.
So in conclusion, you have double standards. One for me & people you disagree, and other for your friends and people you agree with. Now when I realized how double standard are you, I think you are now on my ignore list.
Posted by SayWhatYouSee (Member # 11552) on :
Wanderer: ''Of course it isn't nice, but once a mum and dad split up, the ex wife is in no position to control who the man shacks up with, that is his life and his responsibility as a father, as women we cannot control that.of course you have to restrict access when it comes to dangers, i.e drugs or abuse, but making bad moral judgements in one instance regarding their father is not emotional abuse or neglect, where would you draw the line? ''
From a practical point of view, Wanderer is absolutely correct. In a modern world, an ex-wife would have no right to try to control her ex husband's current relationship (and neither should she have). Providing there are no abnormal circumstances, people have to be allowed to get on with their lives and include their children as they see fit.
Life would be so much easier if people put the blame squarely where it belongs. If your partner cheats - blame them - not the other person involved. People aren't possessions to be 'stolen'. They give themselves away because they want to.
Posted by With a name like Smuckers (Member # 10289) on :
quote:Originally posted by Wanderer:
quote:Originally posted by With a name like Smuckers: I give children NO credit, they are children otherwise let's let them raise themselves.
I dont mean to interrupt your sandwich, but maybe this is what divides us in our thinking. I agree that children need decisions made for them, but to an extent. I think we need to encourage independant thought and reasoning and this cannot happen until we step back and allow them to experience life themselves, without making all their decisions for them
I had to put my sandwich down. I absolutely encourage free thinking, independent thought, but in the case of morality the children learn from example and from lessons taught. I certainly hope you don't intend to let your children 'find their own way' as it relates to this. Ok, going back to my sandwich.
Ok I really am finished with this subject. Posted by Almaz. (Member # 14025) on :
quote:Originally posted by lovingmylife:
quote:Originally posted by Almaz.: No LML I don't like people to 'baby' me all the time.
Actually you do. Do you think that "all your views" on different topic are very sensitive? I have read tons of things you wrote and found myself million times in shock. Have I ever told you how harsh you were when you said that Egyptian women who asked personal questions were "uncivillized and of low class" while when some western woman asked a girl if she slept with her SO you said nothing.
I am not here to please and baby you. You got to find a man to do that, I am a woman who speaks her mind and I do so just like everyone else. Now don't tell me that you haven't noticed how many times your friends used bad words towards me and interestingly you haven't mentioned anything about - respect.
So in conclusion, you have double standards. One for me & people you disagree, and other for your friends and people you agree with. Now when I realized how double standard are you, I think you are now on my ignore list.
Thank you LML.
Posted by ????? (Member # 12336) on :
quote:Originally posted by Almaz.:
quote:Originally posted by Wanderer: Its ok Smuckers, I dont take offense at your comments. The way I see it is:
I would not blame the woman MORE than the man, they are both equally to blame, so i guess i dont see it as 'she broke up the family' but more 'they broke up the family' in fact, I would be more angry at him.
not saying I would like her, or him, OR find the situation easy AT ALL, I would have to constantly refrain from slapping them both - but I feel I would have to try and be distant from my emotions towards them, if that makes any sense.
One of my good friends was telling me that when she discovered her husband was cheating on her, she packed his things and sent them to his mom's and changed the locks. That was the end of that.
The children visiting the dad and the rest of the negotiations were done through the parents. She never even said a word to him again ( been 3 years now). And they were deeply in love at one point! Sad. I would act the same in this situation.
Sometimes women can be very creative in their acts of revenge. I think every situation is different, and nobody can predict what he/she should do if his/her partner should cheat... Its the same as thinking what you should you when there should be a burglar in your house, while your sleeping. Or when you should be witnissing an act of crime. Almost everybody is acting in another way as he/she thought he/she should... Your friend refused to talk to her ex since that day. Her children are expierencing a wrong example of how a relationship must be.In fact they get no example at all anymore. I don`t know if that will be good for them...
Posted by With a name like Smuckers (Member # 10289) on :
I agree with you ?????, to cut off all contact completely does only hurt the children. The woman is obviously hurt and it makes the children to suffer, not necessarily the man. You married him once, you have to keep contact no matter what (ok unless he murders or rapes someone).
Posted by lovingmylife (Member # 13695) on :
quote:Originally posted by With a name like Smuckers: You need to look up the word TACT, it is the ability to convey your feelings without hurting the other person. You are not very good with this from what I have seen.
In order for me to have more tact ( like you ) should I say how stupid this comment is, because that's what you wrote to me in more than 1 occasion calling me bad names and you have never apologized.
I put you on ignore list prior in the past, and you without any apology just kept talking to me. Now you tell me I don't have a tact? I speak to each person accordingly.
Now, you may continue with your comments, I put you back to ignore. You are invisible and don't deserve my attention from this point on.
Posted by Wanderer (Member # 13923) on :
Thank you SWYS
pretty soon LML, this forum will be blank, but hey, at least no one here will be here to disagree with you right?
Smuckers, I know you've finished with the topic, but can i ask you (I do agree, btw, that we should set moral examples )
you said that an ex wife should not stop the father seeing his children, and that this is healthy. If the father intends to stay with a women he left the ex wife for, say he starts living with her...what would you do?
would you tell the children she is an immoral woman?
and that their father is immoral too?
please dont take any of this personally, i am genuinely interested in how, practically, you (or someone sharing your views) could deal with this.
Posted by With a name like Smuckers (Member # 10289) on :
As you like LML, and I only reacted when you insulted every male member of my family, can't apologize for that. Put me back on ignore, if you actually think that will do anything...as you wish.
Wanderer, that is the difficult question isn't it? That is what I was trying to say earlier about this subject a few days ago, that culturally our soceity doesn't really allow for this separation. If the courts insist the father gets visitation and the other woman is there, what can you do? However, IF I had it my way I would ask that visitation be away from the other woman, perhaps at the husband's parents home or some other neutral family member. Again I know this is not always a possibility which was exactly my point about it annoying me that our cultures (British and American are similiar in this) don't allow for the responsibility to be laid at the feet of the cheater or marriage wrecker. But, I guess it is a lost cause, one I hope I never have to face one day. I hope the same for you and anyone else, of course.
Posted by desertgirl (Member # 12450) on :
well, I think it all depends on the situation. Like someone said before: No 2 situations are alike. I had a colleague, happily married (or so she thought), 4 kids of 8,6,4 and 1. She visited her best (female) friend at hospital when she had given birth. Colleague noticed the baby looked like a copy of one of her own kids (who resembled the father). To make a long story short: her husband was the father of that kid and left his family.
She raised her 4 sons completely on her own. Now they are grown-up (in their twenties) and they NEVER want to see their dad again.
But ok, there are other cases. Lots of divorced couples choose for 'co-parenthood' which means kids spend 1 week with their mum, 1 week with their dad... Sometimes it works out just fine and kids seem to handle the situation quite well.
Personally I don't think I could ever be friends with someone who stole my husby. (maybe only in the case that I didn't love him myself anymore and the marriage was over anyway)
I especially liked the phrase of ????? : 'women can be very creative in their acts of revenge' Posted by soozi (Member # 11108) on :
quote:Originally posted by With a name like Smuckers: Wanderer, that is the difficult question isn't it? That is what I was trying to say earlier about this subject a few days ago, that culturally our soceity doesn't really allow for this separation. If the courts insist the father gets visitation and the other woman is there, what can you do? However, IF I had it my way I would ask that visitation be away from the other woman, perhaps at the husband's parents home or some other neutral family member.
Ah, I'm sorry Smuckers, I must have misunderstood your earlier post - I had thought you felt the kids should have no contact with the father, not just the 'other woman'. Now that point of view makes sense to me. Its not how my life has been, and I wouldn't change it, but I can fully understand the point of view. Nor do I see it as harmful!
Posted by With a name like Smuckers (Member # 10289) on :
Noooo I absolutely do NOT believe in cutting off contact from the cheating parent, only the other woman. Posted by soozi (Member # 11108) on :
Fair do's!
Posted by Wanderer (Member # 13923) on :
Smuckers, I hope the same for you (that you never have to go through it, inshaallah you wont)
your response certainly is a good one, at least until the dust settles, because understandably there are hurt emotions flying about, so its more sensible to keep the other woman out of the picture. Like you said though, most of the time, the courts wouldn't agree to this long term. But I agree, at least for a year so then people may have distanced themselves a little - hopefully anyway
what is a shame is that people dont leave the relationships BEFORE they want to be with someone else, it is very weak and selfish to stay just because you dont want to be alone, because if people did that it would avoid ALL these issues!
Posted by lovingmylife (Member # 13695) on :
quote:Originally posted by Wanderer: pretty soon LML, this forum will be blank, but hey, at least no one here will be here to disagree with you right?
I am on this forum since 2001. Your comments about cheating men are hillarious.
It looks to me that you could easily relate to cheating men, and I can't. Thus my reaction to you.
Posted by With a name like Smuckers (Member # 10289) on :
quote:Originally posted by Wanderer: Smuckers, I hope the same for you (that you never have to go through it, inshaallah you wont)
your response certainly is a good one, at least until the dust settles, because understandably there are hurt emotions flying about, so its more sensible to keep the other woman out of the picture. Like you said though, most of the time, the courts wouldn't agree to this long term. But I agree, at least for a year so then people may have distanced themselves a little - hopefully anyway
what is a shame is that people dont leave the relationships BEFORE they want to be with someone else, it is very weak and selfish to stay just because you dont want to be alone, because if people did that it would avoid ALL these issues!
true Posted by Wanderer (Member # 13923) on :
LML
Yes, you are right, I do try to understand why people do things (including cheating men) rather than judging everything from my own experiences and perspectives.
Although I do feel that you might want to check your use and the definition of the word 'relate' since I am not a cheating man.
I'm not quite sure of your relevance regarding being on the forum since 2001, since I was referring to your repeated use of the 'i'm putting you on my ignore list' statement and pretty soon there will be no one left to put on your 'ignore list'.
And please feel free to inject a little humour into your value judgements so that I too may find them funny Posted by Politically Incorrect (Member # 14181) on :
quote:Originally posted by lovingmylife: There are consequences for cheating and one of these are: when you cheat you lose your children.
In all honesty, the above sentence sounds like an attempt to legitimize revenge. I assume because of your other posts that you are a religious Moslem, therefore I will address this issue from a religious point of view.
First, let me concede that cheating is extremely hurtful. Even without cheating, if your spouse leaves you for another marriage it is very hurtful. Let me also concede that it is difficult to accept that someone who has been terrible to you can be good to your child.
However, a child-parent relationship is unalienable in Islam. Even if the parent is moshrek (associating idols with God). Even if the parent persistently tries to make the child moshrek. Still, the child is required to maintain a relationship with that parent.
My best wishes.
Posted by walkingathinline (Member # 11504) on :
The topic at hand: Why do we blame the other woman when the man strays?
IMO, we blame the other woman because now it has become a competition and we want the man to choose us. Of course this isn't always the case - every situation is different. But in my past experience, if I really sit here and think about why I blamed her instead of him, the only reason I can come up with is because I thought she was better than me - prettier, thinner, nicer, better personality, etc...
And when I sunk so low as to think of myself as worthless, unattractive, fat and useless, I also thought that no one else would want me - ever. So I had to fight for him and blame her. She came along with her good looks and took him away from me. He just couldn't help it. (For the record: I don't feel this way now - that was then.)
It couldn't have ever been that I never really loved him in the first place or that he didn't live up to my expectations; or the fact that we were fighting every day for nearly 2 months before his infidelity.
The relationship was over long before he stepped out on me. I just didn't want to see it. That's another thing: we don't want to see the bad in the people we love...or at least think we love.
I haven't been with a cheater since him (8 years ago); but I hope that if my husband ever cheats, that I will have the courage to just walk away from him. And if we should have children, well...that's another bridge to cross.
All I do know about keeping your child away from the estranged parent is that it can be extremely damaging to the child.
Posted by doodlebug (Member # 11649) on :
I blame her because she knew my husband was married. Sure he's to blame as well but I would never flirt with a married man by going over to his shop in the wee hours of the morning. There were some nights when my babies who are less than a year apart would have a stomach bug and I'd be up all night long tending to one and then the other and then myself as well since I'd catch it too. All the while when that was happening he'd be in his shop doing God knows what with her. She knew I had two babies and she knew that he should have been at home with me helping out but she did not care.
I also want to add though that resentment can build and build and ruin your whole life if you let it. He will pay his dues when he has to answer to God. That thought is good enough for me. I actually feel sorry for him for what he will have to endure...all the torment, etc. of the hellfire, but I cannot change him. You cannot make someone sorry for what they did. They have to feel it themselves, but using the children as bait to do that is wrong in my opinion.
They have been married for 9 years now so this isn't going away either since they're very happy and content. I've since made my peace with the situation and although I'm not "friends" with her, I do tolerate the fact that she goes to all of the parent/teacher meetings and volunteers at the school and does most of the pick-up/drop offs. That took some time but it makes for a much more normal life for the kids. May of their teachers have commented that they would have never known they came from a divorced family since they're both very stable and well-adjusted. I love it when I hear that.
Posted by desertgirl (Member # 12450) on :
ok, that's nice. Good luck and all the best for your family.
Posted by Om Bubblemouth (Member # 6244) on :
quote:Originally posted by lovingmylife: Now, you may continue with your comments, I put you back to ignore. You are invisible and don't deserve my attention from this point on.
Did the voices tell you this?
Posted by mia ann (Member # 13024) on :
lol!
Posted by With a name like Smuckers (Member # 10289) on :
Posted by of_gold (Member # 13418) on :
doodlebug, For what it's worth, I think you are honorable to put the needs and concerns of your children before the desire for revenge.
quote:Some men are just weak in the trouser department, that doesnt mean they are bad people, usually they are not even thinking about what they will lose.
Sorry, I don't buy this. They can control themselves just as surly as we can. I also think as someone pointed out earlier that most of the time something is wrong in the marriage for a spouse to cheat.
Posted by With a name like Smuckers (Member # 10289) on :
I agree with Of_gold, temptation exists for men and women alike, but for a man to cheat there have to be some particular things going on first: FIRST he has to have a low character. Sorry, that's just my opinion, a cheater has a bad moral compass and it is a direct reflection of his character... SECOND, something has to be wrong with his marriage that he isn't willing to try to work on or isn't willing to stick it out. I know it takes two to tango but turning to a different person to try to fix your own marriage or spice it up is stupid IMO. THIRD, opportunity opportunity opportunity
Posted by Almaz. (Member # 14025) on :
Whatever the reasons, in conclusion cheaters are dishonest.
And those who contribute to the cheating process have no ethics either, and justify their actions with all sorts of nonsense.
Accepting to have a relationship with married people, show the weak and desperate character of such individuals.
Some people are never satisfied and seek cheap thrills, others like the convenience of the marriage and the affair!
All cheaters are to blame. They were not listening when as kids they were told that cheating is lying and lying is deceiving and betraying etc.. Posted by SayWhatYouSee (Member # 11552) on :
quote:Sorry, I don't buy this. They can control themselves just as surly as we can. I also think as someone pointed out earlier that most of the time something is wrong in the marriage for a spouse to cheat.
I agree with Of_Gold. Something is clearly wrong if a man is prepared to risk all he has emotionally invested in, so readily.
Personally, I would always blame the man. Even if Jessica Alba stripped naked and begged for my husband's attention , he should bear the blame. He is the one with a commitment to me. Of course, if Brad Pitt were to try and tempt me ...Brad would be entirely to blame. I always suspected he was a bit of a slut. Posted by Pink cherry (Member # 13979) on :
Posted by desertgirl (Member # 12450) on :
looooool Posted by With a name like Smuckers (Member # 10289) on :
Oh Jees Jessica Alba, how could any husband look at his wife again after that?
Brad isn't my cup of tea, now Billy Zane... hmmmm:
Blondes aren't usually my type either, Smucks...but one must always try to be open-minded. I checked Billy's pic out twice , just to understand your point of view. Posted by of_gold (Member # 13418) on :
quote:Originally posted by Almaz.: Whatever the reasons, in conclusion cheaters are dishonest.
And those who contribute to the cheating process have no ethics either, and justify their actions with all sorts of nonsense.
Accepting to have a relationship with married people, show the weak and desperate character of such individuals.
Some people are never satisfied and seek cheap thrills, others like the convenience of the marriage and the affair!
All cheaters are to blame. They were not listening when as kids they were told that cheating is lying and lying is deceiving and betraying etc..
Wait a minute...I don't condone cheating but in no way do I think that if someone cheats they have no ethics or are immoral people.
Sometimes good people do bad things, and sometimes bad people do good things. Each case is individual and no one can judge the heart but God. We all have sinned.
I really think it is just as wrong for a spouse to withhold sex from the other. My cousin has joked that with his x he had paycheck sex. He said that he would throw the paycheck on the bed and when she bent over to get it.... He eventually divorced her. He told me he didn't get married to be celibate.
Posted by With a name like Smuckers (Member # 10289) on :
quote:Originally posted by SayWhatYouSee: Blondes aren't usually my type either, Smucks...but one must always try to be open-minded. I checked Billy's pic out twice , just to understand your point of view.
Ohhh I totally understand opening it twice, for a really good opinion. I opened it twice x 5 JUST TO BE SAFE....
Posted by of_gold (Member # 13418) on :
Posted by With a name like Smuckers (Member # 10289) on :
Me likey! Posted by of_gold (Member # 13418) on :
oh...Smuckers, don't watch that movie...you will be sinning all kinds of ways.
Our smiley collection is soooo limited. Posted by MICKY A (Member # 11209) on :
Olivier Martinez me wantey that was a great movie
Posted by Rumicrazieluv (Member # 12053) on :
I think the woman should be blamed also, however the blunt of the anger should be directed at the man who promised to LOVE, HONOR, AND CHERISH. I have said in another posting that men become slimeballs, cheaters, weak poor specimens of manhood because woman train men's behavior.There should be a sisterhood among women, a strength among us all as women to stand up against this behavior. If a man is married, you dont screw around with him or "date" him, bottom line.Women should say NO TO MARRIED MEN! If he really doesnt want to be married anymore than this will at least force him to have the balls enough to just say" this isnt working anymore-I want a divorce",if he really wants to be with her. Most of the time though men lie and say they are not happy, send out a huge sob story just to get a little strange and these stupid women fall for it
Doodlebug, you were really classy about the whole thing. He will get his and she will get hers, I dont care if they are blissfully happy or not. Karma is a bitch, once a cheat always a cheat. True story, my Aunt's husband of 13 yrs cheated on her with a lady he worked with. He divorced my aunt to marry her. My cousins were still small also. They were married 9 yrs and then she turned around, cheated on him and left him for a younger man!!So, what comes around goes around, sometimes it just takes awhile Posted by of_gold (Member # 13418) on :
He looks a bit like Keanu Reeves (at least in the pic with the glass of water) or am I wrong?
All I know is he should be forced to wear a burka....It is his fault for giving me these impure thoughts.......Shame on him.
Posted by soozi (Member # 11108) on :
Tut tut ladies, just wait til LML reads this! She'll have a coronary. Posted by Rumicrazieluv (Member # 12053) on :
Shame on him indeed. These men should stop flaunting themselves. Thanks to the women here for drawing my attention to this scandal . Posted by desertgirl (Member # 12450) on :
Well, you all convinced me I have to see that movie!!
Posted by With a name like Smuckers (Member # 10289) on :
Agreed, shame on him! Posted by SayWhatYouSee (Member # 11552) on :
quote:Originally posted by desertgirl: Well, you all convinced me I have to see that movie!!
...me too. We have to support the arts .
Posted by With a name like Smuckers (Member # 10289) on :
Ohhh yes, for artistic purposes, I'll get the movie tomorrow, ohhh what's the name of this artistic movie? Posted by desertgirl (Member # 12450) on :
yes, we have to watch UNFAITHFUL to be able to give advice, right?? I will say to my husband; need to do some research honey for ES-purposes... Posted by With a name like Smuckers (Member # 10289) on :
So it's like a book club but it's a movie club? Ok ladies, so we all rent/buy/download UNFAITHFUL, watch it and we'll discuss it ... when? Posted by MICKY A (Member # 11209) on :
you willlove this movie . and of gold ! sorry i cant help myself Posted by solana123 (Member # 14155) on :
UNFAITHFUL is an awesome movie.
Posted by of_gold (Member # 13418) on :
ROFL.....
quote:Tut tut ladies, just wait til LML reads this! She'll have a coronary.
LML may approve of him. He's not American.
The beginning is wonderful, I watched it over and over ....I don't care for the ending. I blame HER for everything!!!
Wait, we are back on topic. Yes, I can see how this would be good research for this discussion.
quote:you willlove this movie . and of gold ! sorry i cant help myself
I know Micky, be strong, just turn your head and pray...
Posted by of_gold (Member # 13418) on :
Shame on him indeed. These men should stop flaunting themselves. Thanks to the women here for drawing my attention to this scandal .
Your welcome SWYS. Something has to be done.
Posted by Karah_Mia (Member # 4668) on :
OK, let's agree that some individuals are just more to blame than others.
Ps. KEANU IS MINE MINE MINE!!!!! And it is ALL his fault! Posted by young at heart (Member # 10365) on :
My other half told me about this movie(unfaithful). He went on about it and then I finally saw it, it is very good. For the record Johnny Depp is mine!
Posted by Karah_Mia (Member # 4668) on :
Smucky - I have thoroughly checked out Billy too - and yes, he is guilty of whatever charged with! Posted by With a name like Smuckers (Member # 10289) on :
Yea..he's guilty of so much, he should be punished. Posted by MICKY A (Member # 11209) on :
antonio banadareis is all mine
Posted by Wanderer (Member # 13923) on :
Nah haang onn there a cotton pickin' minute Micky, I aint gonna faate ya faw him but this maaan is miiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiine, allll miine!!!!
Posted by desertgirl (Member # 12450) on :
Remember girls!!
"When two dogs are fighting for a bone, then it is the third one that runs away with it."
Posted by MICKY A (Member # 11209) on :
Wanderer Member Member # 13923
Member Rated: 4 Icon 1 posted October 10, 2007 03:54 AM Profile for Wanderer Send New Private Message Edit/Delete Post Reply With Quote Nah haang onn there a cotton pickin' minute Micky, I aint gonna faate ya faw him but this maaan is miiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiine, allll miine!!!!
i am running away with him . i mean the bone i claimed him first god forgive me for these thoughts , hubby i still want only you Posted by With a name like Smuckers (Member # 10289) on :
Lol, this thread gave me a good laugh. Posted by of_gold (Member # 13418) on :
quote:Originally posted by With a name like Smuckers: Lol, this thread gave me a good laugh.
Me too, Smuckers. I have even gone back to reread it and laugh some more......laughter is good medicine. Posted by lovingmylife (Member # 13695) on :
quote:Originally posted by Om Bubblemouth: Did the voices tell you this?
Tell me what? That you are still in that anal stage?
Posted by lovingmylife (Member # 13695) on :
quote:Originally posted by of_gold: He's not American.
American men can't have a date with a woman without getting drunk 1st. Posted by With a name like Smuckers (Member # 10289) on :
quote:Originally posted by lovingmylife:
quote:Originally posted by of_gold: He's not American.
American men can't have a date with a woman without getting drunk 1st.
I've never seen anyone on this message board MORE prejudiced than you are.
Posted by soozi (Member # 11108) on :
quote:Originally posted by With a name like Smuckers:
quote:Originally posted by lovingmylife:
quote:Originally posted by of_gold: He's not American.
American men can't have a date with a woman without getting drunk 1st.
I've never seen anyone on this message board MORE prejudiced than you are.
I'll second that, but would like to add ignorant to it! Posted by Pink cherry (Member # 13979) on :
quote:Originally posted by lovingmylife:
quote:Originally posted by of_gold: He's not American.
American men can't have a date with a woman without getting drunk 1st.
I think this person has been watching too many US films.... Posted by With a name like Smuckers (Member # 10289) on :
I have other suspicions. Posted by of_gold (Member # 13418) on :
quote:Originally posted by lovingmylife:
quote:Originally posted by of_gold: He's not American.
American men can't have a date with a woman without getting drunk 1st.
What getto are you picking up your men in?
You definitely are hanging with the wrong crowed. You really need to have better sense as to the people you choose to run with.
Now if I went to the Middle East and hung around the terrorist and suicide bombers then I would not have a balanced view of Middle Eastern People.
Likewise when you come to America and hang out with the drug dealers, and male prostitutes your view is skewed as well.
The only rational thought here is that you are either like these people (birds of a feather) or you have a poor choice of the situations that you choose to put yourself into.
Either way LML, this is a bad reflection on you, not on American men.
Posted by mia ann (Member # 13024) on :
quote:Originally posted by lovingmylife:
quote:Originally posted by of_gold: He's not American.
American men can't have a date with a woman without getting drunk 1st.
ofcoarse, ANY human, animal, plant or inamnimate object would have to get drunk to tolarate being around you.
(oh, goody does this get me on the great ignore list i wonder?)
Posted by of_gold (Member # 13418) on :
mia ann, What does the ignore list do?
I tried to put someone on the ignore list thinking that it would not let me see their post and I can still see them. I am wondering what is the benefit of it?
Posted by Samia (Member # 4691) on :
To go back to the original point, when my ex husband had an affair with my best friend, I didn't blame her (looking for blame is a waste of time!!)....... I just broke her nose instead!!!
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How much better could they have been if Mom had sent that clear message that it ISN'T normal, it isn't acceptable and that she refuses her children to be raised by just anyone?
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I am used to not having many who agree with me in this issue, it's a difficult and sensitive subject, I know. ![[Confused]](confused.gif)
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