Finding Love Abroad, Then Support Online for Visa Quest
By Karin Brulliard Washington Post Staff Writer Monday, October 29, 2007; A01
This is what love has done to Wendy Brown: She's lost weight, resumed smoking and all but decided to move to the Balkans to be with her Albanian fiance. And each night, she spends hours in her cozy Baltimore apartment mingling online with strangers who are equally fixated on the same topic: getting their soul mates through the U.S. immigration system.
"We are both devastated," Brown, 38, wrote last spring on VisaJourney.com, reporting that the U.S. Embassy in Albania had denied her fiance a visa. She also posted a list of the questions the fiance was asked at his interview. "I'm going to keep fighting and fighting until we get what we both want more than anything in the world. . . . and that is to be together." Many people are frustrated with the immigration process and its long lines and opaque applications that, if misinterpreted, can send a case back to square one. Perhaps none are more ardent than the growing ranks of U.S. citizens applying for fiance and spouse visas, who say their passion is driven by a sense that their own government is fighting them and by the fear that delays or denials might spell the end of a romance.
In recent years, these American petitioners have channeled their despair into a few Web sites featuring the odd pairing of love stories and red-tape navigation for those fed up with the federal immigration agency's help line, whose representatives are trained in immigration regulations and provide scripted advice that critics say is often wrong.
VisaJourney, a site whose 35,000 members are mostly Americans with foreign fiances and spouses, is at once a celebration of love and a condemnation of bureaucracy. Members, who call themselves VJ'ers, describe meeting their beloveds in Kenyan bars, Jamaican churches, online video games. They have posted thousands of photos of smiling couples in foreign lands. Their profile pages are adorned with beating hearts, clocks counting the hours since their last meetings and such statements as "feels like eternity . . . without him."
Members also post detailed timelines with dates of approved and denied forms and interviews; moderators crunch those into graphs of average wait times at domestic visa offices and overseas embassies. They rank U.S. immigration offices with stars as if they were restaurants. They advise one another on procuring police records for an Ecuadorean fiance and how much proof of a relationship -- photos, love letters -- a hopeful British fiance should cart to an interview. (As much as he can carry, one member advised, adding "knock 'em dead.")
"Misery loves company," said Brown, a vocational rehabilitation specialist. "You're looking for any beacon of hope."
That company has grown alongside a jump in these visas: Nearly 33,000 fiance visas were issued in 2005, up from about 9,000 in 1995. Spouse visas rose to more than 16,000 from about 4,600 since 2000. Immigration officials offer no single explanation for the growth, but some observers say the Internet -- with its online dating sites, instant messaging and Web cams -- has fueled transnational relationships.
Uniting in the United States is not so easy. The petitioner files numerous forms and documents that are typically processed within six months, longer than for many other non-family visas. Next come background checks. Then the application goes to a U.S. embassy or consulate, where the fiance or spouse submits more forms and is interviewed. The process can take months or years.
VisaJourney members list a host of complaints: Those on the East Coast are enraged about what they call a recent slowdown in approval times, which they zealously track. They condemn U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services' recent announcement that it was prioritizing employment and citizenship cases after a summer surge in work visa applications.
"People who aren't born-and-bred American citizens are taking precedence over American citizens. . . . The government is talking about, 'Let's legalize the illegal aliens' when you're waiting for your loved ones to get here. What happened to family first?" said Faith Keenan, 43, of Ruther Glen, Va. She applied for a visa for her Egyptian fiance four months ago. She said she thinks about her pending application "all day long. It consumes you."
Officials say that waits vary and that decisions are made with the interest of legitimate applicants and national security in mind; foreigners sometimes feign love to get visas, so officials must be diligent, said Immigration Services spokeswoman Chris Rhatigan. The government, she said, is "committed to family-based visas."
That is little consolation to the VJ'ers.
Virgil Moore of Catonsville, Md., said the site has been a godsend since he applied for his Filipina fiancee four months ago. When he wondered if she could be interviewed at a consulate rather than the U.S. Embassy, he e-mailed the embassy that question and also asked on VisaJourney. VJ'ers quickly said no. The embassy said no as well but took four months to do so.
Now he logs on daily to see if other VJ'ers have been approved. Few have recently. He reports this via Web cam to his tearful fiancee, Ana Deresa Cabarubias, 27, whom he met online.
"We felt so close," Moore, a divorced UPS employee, said of his one visit to see Cabarubias in May. "Now we've been separated. . . . I wonder if it's going to put stress on our relationship."
Brown calls herself obsessed with her fiance's immigration situation. She and Ilion Hasaj caught each other's eye in May 2006 in a bar in Greece, where each was vacationing. She has since made four trips to visit Hasaj, whose family grows tobacco behind their Albanian home.
She applied for his fiance visa last October and began to plan a Las Vegas wedding. The visa was denied in April. His application was returned to U.S. officials for another review. Brown has heard nothing since.
After writing to members of Congress and federal officials, she has learned only that the visa was denied on the following grounds: "The interviewing consular officer has reason to believe that the engagement was entered into to evade immigration laws."
Brown suspects that Hasaj was not effusive about their love at the interview because he's the macho type. Their age difference -- he is 21 -- might also have sounded alarms, she said. She is confident that his devotion is real, partly because he welcomes the idea of her moving to Albania.
So every night, Brown researches immigration regulations and checks in with VisaJourney, where she "hangs" in forums with other fiances of Albanians.
Her speech is infused with immigration lingo: Hasaj's denial is "what we call a soft denial," she'll say, or Albania is "what we call a high-fraud post."
She adds to the box of documents other VJ'ers have told her she'll need if officials request more evidence of her relationship with Hasaj. It includes a six-inch-thick folder of 14 months' worth of online chatlogs.
"It's addictive," Brown said of the site.
And that can be a problem, Keenan said. Like Brown, she logs onto VisaJourney constantly -- to ask questions, post sale fares to Egypt, buoy others. Sometimes it's too much, she said.
"You feel support, but you feel depressed, because you see other people approved," she said. "Sometimes you have to step back."
One bright spot, Brown said, is the friendship she forged with a California VJ'er who successfully got her Albanian fiance into the United States.
"On those many nights when I've had it, on the verge of a breakdown, the frustration with the process, to be able to pick up the phone and talk to someone who can sympathize with you is nice," Brown said, her voice breaking.
But the separation from Hasaj is too hard, the travel too costly. Come next month, she said, she is moving to Albania.
"Not that I want to be a farmer's wife," she said on a recent night, gazing at the ivory, ruched-bodice wedding dress she is waiting to wear.
Posted by Hello Baby (Member # 6244) on :
Hahahaha!
I'm sorry. I just can't believe it made it as a style piece in the Post.
Posted by StickyHairspray (Member # 14332) on :
This was good ,hit right on the nail Posted by With a name like Smuckers (Member # 10289) on :
WOW, when will ES end up in the Washington Post, too? I better go fix my hair...does my dress look ok?
I'll have to visit that site, are any ES'ers there? Posted by ????? (Member # 12336) on :
Albania is the most poor country in Europe, think it is even poorer as Egypt is. This American lady who is almost fourty has fallen in love with a 21 year old young man, who probably won`t have any other wish in his young life as leaving the poverty and the misery at home. And if it is needed to mix up the truth a little; he will. At least I will have a possibillity to escape is the main opinion. They don't even consider this as dishonesty, they look at it out of their point of view, their lifes, and their futurious prospects. What can you expect from a 21 year old young man without any life-expierence? Websites like this are common, in some countries even supported by immigration-officers! I feel a bit sorry for the ladies that are trying to find a way to get their young lovers abroad, because I know in almost all situation,they will not get what they expect, even not when the man in question has good intentions. It`s logical; take a young man who has been born and raised in a totally hopeless situation, where he has to struggle for life, into a kind of wonderland, he feels like the kid in the candystore! And what is a kid in a candystore doing, when nobody is there to take a eye on him? Grab. As much as he can....
Posted by With a name like Smuckers (Member # 10289) on :
^^ I agree. I've been reading through that site a lot this morning off and on, very interesting. Of course it would be easy for me, coming from a wealthy country, to say they're bad men, shame on them, etc. However, the way I view it is if they're WILLING to enter into marriage honestly and form lives and families with the women it's ok. The trouble is determining their true intent. I would highly recommend for anyone to first live in HIS home country for a while, it really proves a lot and a lot can happen over time. You get to know the true character of the person you might have only visited a few times. I notice in that site, however, everyone is head over hells in love, how is that? EVERYONE is so in love, like teenage age, puppy love? It's really strange. Ok, you might really dig on the guy and think he's pretty special but going on and on and on about how fab he is and your love for him is beginning to give me a cavity. Posted by doodlebug (Member # 11649) on :
quote:Originally posted by With a name like Smuckers: I notice in that site, however, everyone is head over hells in love, how is that? EVERYONE is so in love, like teenage age, puppy love? It's really strange. Ok, you might really dig on the guy and think he's pretty special but going on and on and on about how fab he is and your love for him is beginning to give me a cavity.
1) not everyone is head over heels in love. A lot of people post when they have problems as well.
2) I think the expression of love can be expounded at times due to the length of time apart. Have you ever lived away from your husband for a considerable length of time with only a crappy phone connection and the occasional webcam that is not so great either as a form of communication? It really kind of sucks. The saying "absence makes the heart grow fonder" is quite true in my opinion.
Not all people on that site met their SO via the net either. Many met in the US or abroad and some lived together for years before coming to the US and applying for their visa while separated.
The point of the article apparently was supposed to show the backlog of cases at the USCIS and the unfairness that families are left apart while illegal aliens are granted a visa. I guess the reporter thought it was better to talk about the website that the people are members of though. I'd love to see what a reporter would write about ES......
Posted by With a name like Smuckers (Member # 10289) on :
Well, true I have not been able to completely read over the entire site, I only first visited it today so I suppose there might be SOME with problems. But so far from what I've read it's giving me cavaties.
I have not lived away from my husband, but that's because I wouldn't get married with the plan to be away from each other. IMO that isn't a marriage, but that's just ME. It works for some and I respect that, but until you've had to deal with stopped up toilets, where to go for holidays, which restaurant to eat at on Thursday night, who is going to change the burned out bulb on the front porch and whose turn it is to take out the trash I think it's easy to be lovey duvey. Even if I were separated from my husband, for example beginning today- sure I would miss him but SOME on there treat it like they can't breathe or even function on a daily basis without their spouse. It's kinda creepy IMO.
I do agree there is a bit of an unfairness to those who are legally going through the system to get into the states while those illegally there get the free pass. I think if a reporter wrote about ES it couldn't be a complete article without all of the swear words involved on ES on a daily basis. No seriously, it depends which section of ES was reported about, God help them if they ever reported about the Ancient Egypt and Egyptology section. Posted by SayWhatYouSee (Member # 11552) on :
This site was highlighted to me by several people on ES - mostly for the comic contrast between what certain people say here, compared what they say there. From the little I have read of it, it seems like a useful tool for those perplexed by the whole visa process. What I don't get is why most of the spouses of these women don't appear to post there, given the porportion of internet romances. This looks even more lonely for the women concerned, as their english speaking husbands aren't on VJ to share the problems. Posted by With a name like Smuckers (Member # 10289) on :
Hmmm interesting SWYS so the women are the ones that seem (at least from that site) to be doing all of the leg work for the visas for the men? Is that what you mean? That is an interesting thing I didn't notice - why aren't the men there asking questions more, too? Posted by Mother War (Member # 8386) on :
For some of us with children, living apart from our spouses was a necessary choice. Would it have been a better choice had I decided to leave my children for a year to be with my husband during the visa process? In my case, living away from my husband didn't make me all "lovey dovey". I did realize that I wasn't having a "real" marriage during that time but I really had no choice in the matter. I surely am now and I have the laundry to prove it. At any rate, not all people who choose to marry and go through the visa process are desperate or pathetic or rejects as portrayed in that article. I'm just about as normal as the next guy over here. I just chose to take the road less traveled in order to find a mate. It had nothing to do with my ability or inability to find one here in the states. Are there pathetic cases out there? Most definitely.
About why the foreign spouses (mostly male in the middle east section) aren't on the forum...I'll speak for my husband and say he doesn't/didn't want to be involved in all the gossip and garbage on the forum. He was very involved in the actual process, however. Just because the men aren't in the forum bitching and moaning doesn't mean they don't care or are not involved. Remember, like this forum, it's only the internet not real life. Once I turn this computer off for the day, I go home to my husband and children and live my life.
quote:Originally posted by With a name like Smuckers: Well, true I have not been able to completely read over the entire site, I only first visited it today so I suppose there might be SOME with problems. But so far from what I've read it's giving me cavaties.
I have not lived away from my husband, but that's because I wouldn't get married with the plan to be away from each other. IMO that isn't a marriage, but that's just ME. It works for some and I respect that, but until you've had to deal with stopped up toilets, where to go for holidays, which restaurant to eat at on Thursday night, who is going to change the burned out bulb on the front porch and whose turn it is to take out the trash I think it's easy to be lovey duvey. Even if I were separated from my husband, for example beginning today- sure I would miss him but SOME on there treat it like they can't breathe or even function on a daily basis without their spouse. It's kinda creepy IMO.
I do agree there is a bit of an unfairness to those who are legally going through the system to get into the states while those illegally there get the free pass. I think if a reporter wrote about ES it couldn't be a complete article without all of the swear words involved on ES on a daily basis. No seriously, it depends which section of ES was reported about, God help them if they ever reported about the Ancient Egypt and Egyptology section.
Posted by honeybear (Member # 14363) on :
Ya know, I'm really wondering if people on this board are married to Egyptians, why are you bashing those on the VJ board trying to get their husbands/fiances to the US?
In my case, we aren't married yet bc we didn't want to be offically married with the long seperation and what happens if he doesn't get the visa? We are applying for a fiance visa - there are several different kinds of family visas.
Not all women on the boards married while agreeing to the long seperation. Alot didn't realize the length of the seperation when starting the process. I know I didn't when I first filled out that application - I thought it would be 6 months tops. Some have lived together for long periods of time before starting this. Not all met on the internet either BTW. I met my fiance abroad & lived with him for 6 months but ran into some visa problems on both ends and we ended up seperated.
WTF? Please try to have some sympathy for the people who are seperated from their loved ones for upwards of a year. Or even just those who go there for imigration advise, bc believe me it is a complicated and long process!
Posted by SayWhatYouSee (Member # 11552) on :
quote:Originally posted by With a name like Smuckers: Hmmm interesting SWYS so the women are the ones that seem (at least from that site) to be doing all of the leg work for the visas for the men? Is that what you mean? That is an interesting thing I didn't notice - why aren't the men there asking questions more, too?
Smuckers, clearly the men contribute to the whole visa process, but it seemed to be mostly women expressing frustration, which struck me as odd. Mother War, I see your point - perhaps the forum appeals more to women. This one certainly does.
Posted by Mother War (Member # 8386) on :
There are men on that forum but the women definitely out number the men, like here.
I have mixed feelings about these forums. I do like the entertainment value of it. People willing to share every last gory detail of their lives. I love how they get indignant when you question or judge what they've opened up for the whole world to see. See...it's just like here. Posted by SayWhatYouSee (Member # 11552) on :
I hear you, Mother War - loud and clear! The angry, indignant ones are the funniest, as they post intimate details of their lives on public forums - then protest when someone questions their foolishness. This makes for a very entertaining read. There are of course genuine, more responsible folks to balance out the comedy acts. I see the value of a support group, as a visa application can be a very long, scary process. If VJ offers a reality check plus good information too, it is no bad thing.
Posted by With a name like Smuckers (Member # 10289) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mother War: For some of us with children, living apart from our spouses was a necessary choice. Would it have been a better choice had I decided to leave my children for a year to be with my husband during the visa process? In my case, living away from my husband didn't make me all "lovey dovey". I did realize that I wasn't having a "real" marriage during that time but I really had no choice in the matter. I surely am now and I have the laundry to prove it. At any rate, not all people who choose to marry and go through the visa process are desperate or pathetic or rejects as portrayed in that article. I'm just about as normal as the next guy over here. I just chose to take the road less traveled in order to find a mate. It had nothing to do with my ability or inability to find one here in the states. Are there pathetic cases out there? Most definitely.
About why the foreign spouses (mostly male in the middle east section) aren't on the forum...I'll speak for my husband and say he doesn't/didn't want to be involved in all the gossip and garbage on the forum. He was very involved in the actual process, however. Just because the men aren't in the forum bitching and moaning doesn't mean they don't care or are not involved. Remember, like this forum, it's only the internet not real life. Once I turn this computer off for the day, I go home to my husband and children and live my life.
quote:Originally posted by With a name like Smuckers: Well, true I have not been able to completely read over the entire site, I only first visited it today so I suppose there might be SOME with problems. But so far from what I've read it's giving me cavaties.
I have not lived away from my husband, but that's because I wouldn't get married with the plan to be away from each other. IMO that isn't a marriage, but that's just ME. It works for some and I respect that, but until you've had to deal with stopped up toilets, where to go for holidays, which restaurant to eat at on Thursday night, who is going to change the burned out bulb on the front porch and whose turn it is to take out the trash I think it's easy to be lovey duvey. Even if I were separated from my husband, for example beginning today- sure I would miss him but SOME on there treat it like they can't breathe or even function on a daily basis without their spouse. It's kinda creepy IMO.
I do agree there is a bit of an unfairness to those who are legally going through the system to get into the states while those illegally there get the free pass. I think if a reporter wrote about ES it couldn't be a complete article without all of the swear words involved on ES on a daily basis. No seriously, it depends which section of ES was reported about, God help them if they ever reported about the Ancient Egypt and Egyptology section.
Don't take it personally MW , you certainly never struck me as the lovey duvey type, much more realistic. My own personal views with not being away from my husband upon marriage are personal and nothing more, I applaud you for raising your children and of course they would come first. Your marriage is much differnet than the ones I have read on that site bleating on about not being able to sleep until they talk to their 'Egyptian princes' again. Completely different scenario altogether. Posted by MICKY A (Member # 11209) on :
quote:Originally posted by honeybear: In my case, we aren't married yet bc we didn't want to be offically married with the long seperation and what happens if he doesn't get the visa? We are applying for a fiance visa - there are several different kinds of family visas.
Not all women on the boards married while agreeing to the long seperation. Alot didn't realize the length of the seperation when starting the process. I know I didn't when I first filled out that application - I thought it would be 6 months tops. Some have lived together for long periods of time before starting this. Not all met on the internet either BTW. I met my fiance abroad & lived with him for 6 months but ran into some visa problems on both ends and we ended up seperated.
WTF? Please try to have some sympathy for the people who are seperated from their loved ones for upwards of a year. Or even just those who go there for imigration advise, bc believe me it is a complicated and long process!
THANK YOU honeybear. this is so true Posted by With a name like Smuckers (Member # 10289) on :
Honeybear the issue isn't not having sympathy for those away from their husbands or boyfriends. I personally know many who have been separated from their loved ones for this reason and I feel for them I simply stated that I could PERSONALLY not do that myself, it shouldn't be taken as a personal attack on those have or are going through it.
My issue is with those who constantly go on and on and on about how they can't LIVE without the other one and it's been 2.5 hours since they last spoke to 'so and so' and they can't even eat without 'him' and what is that? Creepy!
Posted by Sashyra88 (Member # 11693) on :
<My issue is with those who constantly go on and on and on about how they can't LIVE without the other one and it's been 2.5 hours since they last spoke to 'so and so' and they can't even eat without 'him' and what is that? Creepy! >
Remember this line,Smuckers?"I WANT MY HUSBAND!"
Posted by With a name like Smuckers (Member # 10289) on :
Hmmm does sound oddly familiar. But read a few pages of VJ - it's MUCH worse! Posted by ????? (Member # 12336) on :
Tsssssssssss. There are plenty of occupations where husbands and wifes are not able to live together. It is a choice, and people have to think before they make that choice. I can't imagine women who's husband is not around because of his work, will have such a dependant attitude. Imagine a sailor, a soldier,sportsmen, bussinesmen, politics, whatso-ever, who has to deal with a wife that needs his attention in every free minute that he has... I wouldn't have a great opinion about her. Seeking for attention all the time, wining, complaining, does not help a thing. All these men and women did make that choice theirselves, and they knew that before they started. It is just the consequence of getting involved with men like this. If she would have maried a soldier, he also could be placed in another country. Do you think these women are uniting by wining and complaining? I have the impression that many women don't have the slightest idea about what they can expect out of such a relationship. Not while being separated, and not by being together. I think Smuckers has made a good choice to go and live in Egypt for a while. She gets to know the culture, her husband, and when she wants to get back to the States by time, she will expierence less problems. Because she and her husband have proved their relationship is serious and stabile. And that's the only problem with getting a visa in the common way, in unequal relationships, with a man who obviously wouldn't have another possibility to get into the States in another way. Every marriage can go wrong, but immigration will consider her relationship as much more realistic as the other ones. This is not meant personal to anybody special, but I really think in common women think not enough before they start such a relationship, with a man thousands of miles away and locked in his country.
If you can't bare the heat, stay away from fire. Simple as that.
Posted by doodlebug (Member # 11649) on :
quote:Originally posted by With a name like Smuckers: My issue is with those who constantly go on and on and on about how they can't LIVE without the other one and it's been 2.5 hours since they last spoke to 'so and so' and they can't even eat without 'him' and what is that? Creepy!
I am suprised that so many spend entire nights talking to their husbands/wives on the webcam and I will admit that some are over the top with the not being able to eat or sleep without their SO's but again, that is a minority on VJ.
For the most part it's people who are quite diverse from all over the world, not just Egypt, who are trying to get their loved ones back home to them. Some of the stories are quite sad and some involve children who were born without their dad present and whose fathers have never even been able to hold their babies who are now 2 or 3 years old. I can't even imagine giving birth without my husband here with me. There is at least one of these examples on ES but I forget her screenname and I don't think she's posted in quite a while. In that case I can definitely see heartbreak each and every day, though suprisingly these women are very very strong and have shown more resiliance than I certainly could ever show.
I tend to go through stages. For the most part I'm ok with the separation. It's not like we lived together for years getting used to each other and THEN we were separated. This time is giving us both the opportunity to square away loose ends before starting our life with each other. Sometimes though, you just snap and it all hits you at once and you need to just vent to people who have been in the same boat and who can relate.
I don't think anyone can really fully comprehend the emotional rollercoaster of not knowing when your life is going to change until they truly experience it. I mean this week I am a single mom of sorts and our lives are the same as they have been for the last ten years, but next week our entire routine could be changed. But you don't know when. It's very difficult not having control over the situation and not being able to plan for it.
Posted by ????? (Member # 12336) on :
Hey, Doodlebug: getting pregnant while living in separate countries most likely will mean deliver a baby without the father by your side! If you can't deal with that: DON'T get pregnant... People can take care of that nowadays! All these decisions made without thinking about the consequences are mostly their own fault!
And certainty; I think NO relationship is certain. I can be a happy mother and wife today and a sad widow tonight. Or a devorced woman next year. It's not likely, but nobody knows what is going to happen in future.
Its all about taking decisions.
You, for an example, did take the decision to marry a man while he was not allowed to enter your country. Because there are reasons for you, that won't allow you to live in his country; all you can do is try to get him into yours. If you manage to do that, also everything can happen, because in fact it is only the start. If you don't manage, then you both have to think about what could be next: Go on like you do now...? Wait untill your children are grown up and leave them? Let them grow up by somebody else and leave them? All these possibilities are very difficult for you.
Its the worse case scenario, what if....?????
In Smuckers case the worse case scenario was that her relationship shouldn't be what she expected. In that case she could travel home and go on with her life.
If there is a past, with children involved, cases are a bit different. Because one way or another, the children are there, and parents are responseble for them. Probably there is an ex to deal with, because he also has rights. How do they think about that? The ex, the family, financial matters, a house, a job, name it all....
All complicated matters, that should be considered before actually getting seriously into such relationships.
And there are VERY serious hurted people by such examples...
Posted by Sashyra88 (Member # 11693) on :
< think Smuckers has made a good choice to go and live in Egypt for a while. She gets to know the culture, her husband, and when she wants to get back to the States by time, she will expierence less problems. Because she and her husband have proved their relationship is serious and stabile.>
I admire and respect Smuckers a lot,specially regarding this subject.This just gives us a glimpse of an intelligent and brilliant woman who took that not easy at all decision to experience the Egyptian lifestyle on location with her Egy family and all that it takes. Posted by Mother War (Member # 8386) on :
No offense taken, Smucks *hugs*
I was just pointing out that there are several women who couldn't pick up and move to their SO's country for various reasons. If I didn't have my boys I probably would be living in Egypt, like yourself.
quote:Originally posted by With a name like Smuckers:
quote:Originally posted by Mother War: For some of us with children, living apart from our spouses was a necessary choice. Would it have been a better choice had I decided to leave my children for a year to be with my husband during the visa process? In my case, living away from my husband didn't make me all "lovey dovey". I did realize that I wasn't having a "real" marriage during that time but I really had no choice in the matter. I surely am now and I have the laundry to prove it. At any rate, not all people who choose to marry and go through the visa process are desperate or pathetic or rejects as portrayed in that article. I'm just about as normal as the next guy over here. I just chose to take the road less traveled in order to find a mate. It had nothing to do with my ability or inability to find one here in the states. Are there pathetic cases out there? Most definitely.
About why the foreign spouses (mostly male in the middle east section) aren't on the forum...I'll speak for my husband and say he doesn't/didn't want to be involved in all the gossip and garbage on the forum. He was very involved in the actual process, however. Just because the men aren't in the forum bitching and moaning doesn't mean they don't care or are not involved. Remember, like this forum, it's only the internet not real life. Once I turn this computer off for the day, I go home to my husband and children and live my life.
quote:Originally posted by With a name like Smuckers: Well, true I have not been able to completely read over the entire site, I only first visited it today so I suppose there might be SOME with problems. But so far from what I've read it's giving me cavaties.
I have not lived away from my husband, but that's because I wouldn't get married with the plan to be away from each other. IMO that isn't a marriage, but that's just ME. It works for some and I respect that, but until you've had to deal with stopped up toilets, where to go for holidays, which restaurant to eat at on Thursday night, who is going to change the burned out bulb on the front porch and whose turn it is to take out the trash I think it's easy to be lovey duvey. Even if I were separated from my husband, for example beginning today- sure I would miss him but SOME on there treat it like they can't breathe or even function on a daily basis without their spouse. It's kinda creepy IMO.
I do agree there is a bit of an unfairness to those who are legally going through the system to get into the states while those illegally there get the free pass. I think if a reporter wrote about ES it couldn't be a complete article without all of the swear words involved on ES on a daily basis. No seriously, it depends which section of ES was reported about, God help them if they ever reported about the Ancient Egypt and Egyptology section.
Don't take it personally MW , you certainly never struck me as the lovey duvey type, much more realistic. My own personal views with not being away from my husband upon marriage are personal and nothing more, I applaud you for raising your children and of course they would come first. Your marriage is much differnet than the ones I have read on that site bleating on about not being able to sleep until they talk to their 'Egyptian princes' again. Completely different scenario altogether.
Posted by doodlebug (Member # 11649) on :
quote:Originally posted by ?????: Hey, Doodlebug: getting pregnant while living in separate countries most likely will mean deliver a baby without the father by your side! If you can't deal with that: DON'T get pregnant... People can take care of that nowadays! All these decisions made without thinking about the consequences are mostly their own fault!
That's a pretty cut and dry answer and in reality life is different. Sometimes the condom breaks, sometimes the birth control isn't doing what it should. Life happens and if a woman is visiting her husband and gets pregnant while on birth control I don't think you can say that she wasn't thinking about her consequences.
I don't think people can judge others without truly knowing all of the facts. It's easy to make blanket statements like you did but you are not taking into account a LOT of factors. Each case is very different.
Posted by ????? (Member # 12336) on :
Sure, and something like 40% of all pregnancy`s results in a miscarriage. I know that something can go wrong, and I know about principles against abortions. So, a minority will be accidental. I won`t go this far to state to don`t have sex if you are not able to deal with the consequences, (because that is also a possibillity) but this is a very small percentage!
I know a woman who got pregnant twice even taking prevention (birthcontroll by injections) She was married, got pregnant by another man twice, and still is stating she did use enough prevention. I happen to doubt her statements. Even as the second husband did after a while..
Why are you taking this extra-ordinary situations as an example while majority should know better? Majority indeed did not think before she acted.
You can say that it is a cut and dry answer; and I realise many women in love (because THAT is the problem!) seem to be not capable to think rationally in such a situation, certainly not after spending that many time behind the pc with their loved ones, being separated for long times, and when finally the time is there that they are able to meet...well, passion moves away the reason...
BUT, if they have their responsebilities, they HAVE to think!
BTW, this is also a responsebility for the man in question, there are two involved, and the man has to take responsebility too. They also have to keep in mind that there is a possibility that a child might be born, their child, and that they never will be able to be a father to them. I have my own thoughts about the fathers in this kind of stories...
Excuses like failed birthcontrol and not thought about it, are not granted by a immigrationservice.
I know children who are born out of this kind of relationships. Believe me, they have a very double feeling about their parents, even after meeting the father after so many years.(Because all relationships stranded. They were born and father was not available)
And if I meet woman number that much, ready to marry a man that she does not know for real, hoping to get him a visa and take him to her country,and a man that thinks making her pregnant will raise the change to get a visa, I only think: You stupid woman. I am against abortion but I think I would do so, in this situation.
Your post doesn't make any sense to me. Who's saying they got pregnant to get a visa? Obviously the immigration people could care less, otherwise these families wouldn't be separated. Abort the baby though as a solution? Good grief!
Posted by Mother War (Member # 8386) on :
As common sense as it may seem, many people still believe that getting pregnant will help their chances with getting the visa quickly.
I can't understand why a woman would intentionally get pregnant (not using BC) while visiting her SO overseas. Most of the women have only met the guy once, how do they know the marriage will work out or the guy will be a responsible father and husband? I don't know what the rush is all about.
Posted by get_over_it (Member # 11286) on :
I agree - it's not until you've lived with someone over an extended period of time that you can say that you really know them. Two weeks a year or the odd snatched phonecall can't be the basis for making such a life changing decision, it's from the real living together and facing the dull problems and monotony of day-to-day life that you really get to know the person you married. What's the rush?
Posted by Mother War (Member # 8386) on :
Speaking of pregnancy....how are you holding up GOI? Are you ready to burst yet? Thinking of you and wishing you well.
Posted by With a name like Smuckers (Member # 10289) on :
Speaking of which Get_Over_It, haven't you had that baby YET ??? Posted by SayWhatYouSee (Member # 11552) on :
Another aspect that is a potential concern is bringing back a person whom you have met only once or twice to live with your children. This must be a major worry for parents, as the repercussions, if something goes wrong, are huge. I also wonder about the children whose mother's change faiths. It must be especially confusing for them. There are lots of benefits for children too, resulting from successful, cross-cultural marriages, but the stakes are high.
Posted by get_over_it (Member # 11286) on :
I'm trying, I really am! But she seems warm and comfy where she is, and determined to work according to her own schedule... I'm sure she can't stay in there forever, can she? Posted by Mother War (Member # 8386) on :
This was a concern of mine since I do have children and was unable to have my husband and the boys meet in person prior to his arrival. I made sure to pay close attention to how my husband interacted with his family particularly the women and children. I watched how his nieces and nephews responded to him. Thank God everything went well in our case, but unfortunately things don't always go well in these situations. Especially when the children are not used to dealing with people of the husband's culture. My sons are half Arab and have lived for short periods within the culture so they've reacted well to my husband. Of course, like any stepparent situation, we have our issues but all in all it's going remarkably well. My husband loves having the boys around and gets involved in their interests particularly video and computer games. Because his education was focused on computers and IT, they think he's super cool because they think he knows everything.
As far as religion goes, I couldn't have married a man outside of mine or my children's religion, that's just a personal choice of mine. I converted to Islam prior to my children's birth. I can't imagine the transition of having a Christian, Jew or whatever mother then one day she decides to become Muslim. I know many women have been able to pull it off and that's great. I believe good communication between the parent and child helps in these cases.
quote:Originally posted by SayWhatYouSee: Another aspect that is a potential concern is bringing back a person whom you have met only once or twice to live with your children. This must be a major worry for parents, as the repercussions, if something goes wrong, are huge. I also wonder about the children whose mother's change faiths. It must be especially confusing for them. There are lots of benefits for children too, resulting from successful, cross-cultural marriages, but the stakes are high.
Posted by ????? (Member # 12336) on :
quote:Originally posted by doodlebug: Your post doesn't make any sense to me. Who's saying they got pregnant to get a visa? Obviously the immigration people could care less, otherwise these families wouldn't be separated. Abort the baby though as a solution? Good grief!
You may be against abortion, I am too. But I think there can be circumstances that make me change my mind. When there is not enough certainty to give the child a normal life, for instance.
And I know there are enough Egyptian man who are thinking a child would better their situation to get a visa. If he is bad-willing he will tell the mother that it is a baby born out of love.
I cannot imagine there will be one serious man who would make the aware choice of becoming a father while he wouldn't be able to be around for the child, specially not in Egypt. It is his honour to do so.
So, that making women pregnant while they are living abroad IMO can't be a serious man.
You may disagree with me, but I think the majority of these women need reason instead as complaining and wining partners in misfortune.
Posted by With a name like Smuckers (Member # 10289) on :
Patience ceases to be a virtue when we permit others to waste our time.
Posted by SayWhatYouSee (Member # 11552) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mother War: This was a concern of mine since I do have children and was unable to have my husband and the boys meet in person prior to his arrival. I made sure to pay close attention to how my husband interacted with his family particularly the women and children. I watched how his nieces and nephews responded to him. Thank God everything went well in our case, but unfortunately things don't always go well in these situations. Especially when the children are not used to dealing with people of the husband's culture. My sons are half Arab and have lived for short periods within the culture so they've reacted well to my husband. Of course, like any stepparent situation, we have our issues but all in all it's going remarkably well. My husband loves having the boys around and gets involved in their interests particularly video and computer games. Because his education was focused on computers and IT, they think he's super cool because they think he knows everything.
As far as religion goes, I couldn't have married a man outside of mine or my children's religion, that's just a personal choice of mine. I converted to Islam prior to my children's birth. I can't imagine the transition of having a Christian, Jew or whatever mother then one day she decides to become Muslim. I know many women have been able to pull it off and that's great. I believe good communication between the parent and child helps in these cases.
quote:Originally posted by SayWhatYouSee: Another aspect that is a potential concern is bringing back a person whom you have met only once or twice to live with your children. This must be a major worry for parents, as the repercussions, if something goes wrong, are huge. I also wonder about the children whose mother's change faiths. It must be especially confusing for them. There are lots of benefits for children too, resulting from successful, cross-cultural marriages, but the stakes are high.
Mother War, thanks for the straighforward, honest answer. Your realistic view of the pitfalls has obviously served you well.
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At any rate, not all people who choose to marry and go through the visa process are desperate or pathetic or rejects as portrayed in that article. I'm just about as normal as the next guy over here. I just chose to take the road less traveled in order to find a mate. It had nothing to do with my ability or inability to find one here in the states. Are there pathetic cases out there? Most definitely.![[Wink]](wink.gif)
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