ignoring shouting talking over someone name calling humiliating putting down pushing, biting, swearing Hiting, shoving, kicking intimidating not caring if you are hurting or offending someone not listening blaming not trying to see how others feel expecting people to do what you say instantly, not valuing what they are doing.
Respectful:
Talking about whats bothering you speaking calmly listening appreciating a different point of view allowing someone to be themselves allowing someone to think differently admitting when you are wrong learning from others trying out other peoples interests because THEY enjoy them Protecting those you care about from harm. Caring when your actions hurt others doing what you can to make the ones you love happy Encouraging
Young at heart - well at least he is an ex its funny isn't it, how obvious that list is, yet for people who are in it, they just dont see it so clearly.
The song, first time i have ever heard it was today, it is so powerful, with such a powerful video, so i thought it goes well.
Posts: 918 | From: Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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Well I was thinking about something a few days ago - I have a friend (male) who seems to have vanished lately without a word and I've been wondering about how to find out if he's ok or lying mangled in car wreck somewhere round the Ring Road.
I was getting someone's opinion about whether I should phone his mother or not, and I said 'its not a romance so I would have thought he would have left a message - if it was a romance then that would be part and parcel'
I was suddenly struck by how I expect and accept a much lower standard of behaviour from a romance than I will put up with in a normal friendship!
What's that all about, SQ, I asked myself! That probably explains a few things about my life
Some navel gazing to go on here me thinks Posts: 5593 | From: Egypt | Registered: Dec 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Shanta Qadeema: I was suddenly struck by how I expect and accept a much lower standard of behaviour from a romance than I will put up with in a normal friendship!
Absolutely, me too!
I have fallen out with friends over the smallest of things. Yet put up with the most ridiculous things from a partner. From now on this list applies to ALL relationships, family, friends, partners, pets, ALL!!!!!
Posts: 918 | From: Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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quote:Originally posted by Shanta Qadeema: I was suddenly struck by how I expect and accept a much lower standard of behaviour from a romance than I will put up with in a normal friendship!
Absolutely, me too!
I have fallen out with friends over the smallest of things. Yet put up with the most ridiculous things from a partner. From now on this list applies to ALL relationships, family, friends, partners, pets, ALL!!!!!
LOL about the pets...I remember my dog had selective deafness and dinner time WAS dinner time. Good to see you back Posts: 3809 | From: Paradise | Registered: Mar 2003
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Weird kitty - yeah I used to say that, I used to think that arguments were ok, or even shouting was ok. Unitl the man you love starts to punch you when your shouting, or push you back by putting his hand over your face and pushing you backwards.
If someone was shouting in my face, being aggressive, or hurling insults at you or those close to you, I used to think it was o.k to push them as well, until they punch you so hard that you cant breathe.
Posts: 918 | From: Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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Nothing like a good argument to clear the air and get things off your chest...I love a bit of banter me! Posts: 1917 | From: WALES | Registered: Apr 2007
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I think there is a difference between aggressively arguing, to having a... lets just call it "heated debate". I don't believe shouting means you have a bad relationship. Me and my friends argue, as do me and my parents, and I have great relationships with all of them. Some people just express themselves differently when angry I guess. My arguments have never turned violent, I’m a pacifist.
-------------------- Another one.... Posts: 2573 | From: England | Registered: Jun 2008
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I like a guy who can argue and be passionate about all he believes in but will ultimately respect my views and not try to change them
I like a guy who will tell me when I annoy him and expect the same in return.
I don't like bullies but puppy dogs are just as annoying!
I agree with colunm one about signs you are being dis-respected but column two is a little too BLAH
Posts: 11097 | From: Cairo | Registered: May 2008
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wine o wine i remember that!! lord how i wish i could get absolutely rat arsed round about now Posts: 3945 | From: ' Res Contr ' Amor non es guirens, lai on sos poders s'atura | Registered: Dec 2007
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Well Cheeky, once again I will have to agree with you. Those are the type of things I like too. And who doesn't enjoy a bite now and then
I don't think there can be such black and white lists like this- obviously some are a given, but some are personal choice and opinions. It is just like a list on another thread, about true love. It made me want to throw up! lol. I would like anyone to find a couple who have been married 20 years, and ask them: Do you still feel shy when around the person you love? When you are together can you not pay attention to anyone else? Nope? Oh well, clearly it’s not love then. Arghghg- some people are just not all soppy like that, lol (probably the same people who like a bit of biting, haha).
-------------------- Another one.... Posts: 2573 | From: England | Registered: Jun 2008
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Of course, and its fine, you can take the piss out of the list, but the topic is 'dysfuncyional relationships' not 'things you like to do with your lover'
If you like to be bitten and shouted at thats cool kitty, if you ever find yourself in a dysfuntional relationship be sure to tell him that you will enjoy be bitten (not in a nice way) and you will enjoy him shouting at you, maybe right in your face...i'm sure the rest will follow, so have fun.
You know while you two think that you can joke about things like this there are women out there getting beaten every second, while you sit here and joke about it, or the list is not quite good enough for you. Why dont you stop for a second thinking about YOU and think about others who this list may help.
Sometimes women hang on to relationships where these things go on, not one or two off the list but ALL, and much more as well, that I didnt include. Of course the list is not exhaustive but its a start and if some women can look at and think 'yes i shouldn't be treated that way' then its at least a start.
Women can be killed in domestic violence relationships (men too) so i hardly think it right for you to come on and joke about it do you?
By the way you do KNOW that a large proportion of egyptian and muslim men like to be the boss dont you? I hope you do. Because some of them get very confused about what is disrespect and abuse, either that or they KNOW and still chose to act that way.
Of course I know that you will all come back and say 'oh this wont happen to me, i'm strong, i wont tolerate it, blardy blar'. 1 in 4 women at some time in their lives in the UK alone experience domestic violence. The figures in Egypt would be higher, so good luck with that.
Posts: 918 | From: Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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Cheeky, I find your attitude very insulting to women who do find themelves in these situations.
Good for you that you say it will never happen to you.
That does not mean all women (or men) that do end up in these situations are weak! or have victim mentality.
It is such a complex and often subtle thing, it has nothing to do with being strong or weak. There are 101 reasons why people find themselves in these situations and to imply that you are stronger and in some way a better person than those that do is very arrogant.
Posts: 918 | From: Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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And like I explained, i was brought up in a DV situation so if my attitude offends you then I would ignore any comments from people who have had experience of it! The perpitraitor affects all lives involved... weirdly we are not all the same!
I do not think it is arrogant to stipulate I will never find myself in that situation! what is arrogant about my level of control? Just because it may differ from others does not make it an arrogant statement!!! I am very strong, what of it!
Somebody knowing their mind and taking control of situations is not a bloody bad thing lmao...
Posts: 11097 | From: Cairo | Registered: May 2008
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What is arrogant is to imply that it only happens to weak people, and that if people do perhaps need a list then somehow they are inferior to you.
I'm just trying to get you to see another perspective rather than your own without assuming, arrogantly, that if people are not 'strong like you' then they must be weak. Not to worry, I know this will fall on deaf ears. You have all the answers as usual.
Posts: 918 | From: Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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If I don't see people as strong as me then literally speaking then I do see them to be weaker! If I don't see them to be as poor as me I see them to be richer!!! I could continue with the English lesson. Linguistically I feel I am quite accurate.
My own Mother admits she was weak and I have heard a million times "I wish I had the strength to walk away" my mother is now much stronger (not as stong as her kids) and I am proud of her standing up to the spineless bully. she has 4 children who will NEVER follow in those footsteps!
Oh my, where oh where can the rolling eye people be?
I love being patronised by strangers... I wish there was an emoticon for this. This is the most apt Posts: 11097 | From: Cairo | Registered: May 2008
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Well you are weaker than me but if you wanna state you are weak that is your choice.
I do refuse to become a victim of DV. I have sacked many a b/f for talking to me like ****. I can see a perpetrator from a mile off. Like I stated twice for you, I watched it happen all my childhood and I refuse point blank to allow it to spill into my adulthood. I made an active choice to never allow people to speak to me or treat me the way I was spoken to and treated in my past.
Victim and perpetrator BTW are both terms used in Domestic Violence Programmes. I actively went to the programme to remove demons and now I am strong enough to say all that I do.
I am sorry you are in your situation but as I have learned only you can change it. There are professionals who can help.
Posts: 11097 | From: Cairo | Registered: May 2008
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I do refuse to become a victim of DV. I have sacked many a b/f for talking to me like ****. I can see a perpetrator from a mile off. Like I stated twice for you, I watched it happen all my childhood and I refuse point blank to allow it to spill into my adulthood. I made an active choice to never allow people to speak to me or treat me the way I was spoken to and treated in my past.
Victim and perpetrator BTW are both terms used in Domestic Violence Programmes. I actively went to the programme to remove demons and now I am strong enough to say all that I do.
Cheeky I think you are a good testament to the sucess of these programmes. I am involved with a charity that does alot of work in this area and its good to see the investment in such programmes does bear positive results.
Caterpillar I think Cheeky well understands where you are coming from, try to take some positive strength from her experiences and see that things can change and get better but it does need outside professional help and its out there if you ask.
Posts: 3809 | From: Paradise | Registered: Mar 2003
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Where on earth did I joke about abusive relationships?! I said sometimes I like a good argument (or passionate debate)- this is perfectly normal. Me and my friends argue, as do me and my parents. There is a HUGE difference between abuse and arguing. As for biting- seriously, if you can't joke about a nibble, what can you joke about! How PC is this world becoming...
-------------------- Another one.... Posts: 2573 | From: England | Registered: Jun 2008
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Penny, I learned a lot about perpetrators 'tools' and angles they use to emotionally destroy somebody until all self confidence and self esteem have vanished.
I learned how people see the couple as perfect as the manipulation is such that the perpetrator looks the perfect partner and only the victims knows every word is another dig.
I learned about alcohol abuse by both the perpetrator and the victim. I also learned why people become bullies. It also showed why people let themselves be bullied. So many reasons, so little time.
I also learned the 'Stepping Stones' (the Charity name) how to remove yourself and others from the situation and how to move on and to stop it from happening again in the future.
My Mum sadly waited until all of us were old enough to understand why she was putting an end to the marriage. In hindsight she knows all she did was make us unhappy and scared, if only she had gotten out quicker we would have all been a healthier environment a lot quicker.
I have two friends who are regular punchbags... I told the one recently if she does not get out the situation she will have to face the fact her teenage daughter could be attending her funeral. Sadly she has just fell pregnant and I now know she will be feeling trapped I can only live in hope a baby will placate him but part of me knows once a bully always a bully. I have even watched him bully the daughter and it makes bile rise!!!! I am her only friend who has told him exactly how I feel. He has even tried to come between us but I will not allow that to happen.
I do understand but I am very intolerant of bullies and I wish I could zap confidence into people who are victims of DV.
Posts: 11097 | From: Cairo | Registered: May 2008
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Sadly children are often the tools, emotional blackmail is prevalent.
I will share this with you as well.. when my Mum got away from him the courts made me a ward of court meaning I was in the guardianship of the high courts... this hung over my head until I was 18. In every possible moment my father would use this to hurt my mother and I woke with police in my bedroom on one occassion stopping me from leaving the country to go on a holiday!
He did not care about my well-being, he was ruling her life from a distance.
Sadly in the majority of cases the women will not leave for fear of losing her children, unfortunately the children suffer equally. Catch 22.
I am very sorry you are in a situation and I really hope you have an escape. I know it is not easy but I hope you can now understand why I will never allow myself to get in that situation. I would rather spend my days as singleton
I fear I will be my mother but what is more upsetting I have three brothers petrified they will be my father...
Posts: 11097 | From: Cairo | Registered: May 2008
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Cheekyferret, your experiences from childhood are an unfortunate plight of many kids - sadly...
Posts: 2807 | From: Europe | Registered: Nov 2007
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quote:Originally posted by cheekyferret: Sadly children are often the tools, emotional blackmail is prevalent.
I will share this with you as well.. when my Mum got away from him the courts made me a ward of court meaning I was in the guardianship of the high courts... this hung over my head until I was 18. In every possible moment my father would use this to hurt my mother and I woke with police in my bedroom on one occassion stopping me from leaving the country to go on a holiday!
He did not care about my well-being, he was ruling her life from a distance.
Sadly in the majority of cases the women will not leave for fear of losing her children, unfortunately the children suffer equally. Catch 22.
I am very sorry you are in a situation and I really hope you have an escape. I know it is not easy but I hope you can now understand why I will never allow myself to get in that situation. I would rather spend my days as singleton
I fear I will be my mother but what is more upsetting I have three brothers petrified they will be my father...
It is so sad that you had to experience all of that and i am pleased that it has made you strong enough to be able not to follow the same pattern, so many kids go the other way.
Who knows, maybe you are right, maybe it is weakness on the part of the women, its very hard to break away from someone you love when they have so many other parts of them that you love. Most people that use Domestic violence as a way of controlling their partner are not evil people, they have good sides too.
I think women in these situations are just too hopeful that the good side of the man will win, that the bad part will just go away. Obviously there is an element of pretending to themselves that it is not so bad, and part taking the blame for it yourself.
Either way, its wrong. Thats why i started this topic. When you look right down to basics, so many people, myself included, put up with behaviours in the top list and thats where it starts. IF we all looked for and only accepted those bahviours in the bottom list (even if you think they are blah! ) then so much pain would be avoided.
Posts: 918 | From: Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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I would imagine I am talking for many children from a DV household. I know I am speaking of the 4 in my house.
I went to the DV sessions as I wanted to remember my suppressed memories and I heard of the technique they used to help bring them out. I was in floods of tears but thankfully all my anger went and whatever they released in me really helped. Being with people who were currently going through what I had seen really made them think about their own children as well.
My friend I told you about, her daughter now confides in me and sees me as a friend and if I can only make a difference in her life then I will be a happy lady...
Posts: 11097 | From: Cairo | Registered: May 2008
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But Caterpillar, I see them as blah because of the childhood I had. List 2 is closely followed by list 1. I don't ever let list 2 happen to me either. I am only strong as I have also developed a controlling streak!
I know women think their men will change, if it means anything my father is still a manipulative bully to this day!!! just with a new family somewhere else.
My mom blamed herself for years for the slaps,the digs, the threats etc... it is only since she got out and met a decent guy she realises he was the one with the problems.
Women who blame themselves are the ones I pity the most I can see why they feel to blame but I wish they could see how they are not to blame at all...
Never thought I would post all that on the internet! It was like a therapy session!
Posts: 11097 | From: Cairo | Registered: May 2008
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I agree as well Yorkie. Talking is such great medicine.
I find sharing this kinda stuff weird and difficult. I am sorry I come across arrogant but I get pretty wound up like a spring sometimes.
Caterpillar I am sorry to you the most... seems attack is my best form of defence. this subject just sits a little too close to a nerve...
Posts: 11097 | From: Cairo | Registered: May 2008
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And still... None of us is an angel. We are only human. Will always make mistakes.
Posts: 2807 | From: Europe | Registered: Nov 2007
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mabrouk to our furry friends Posts: 3945 | From: ' Res Contr ' Amor non es guirens, lai on sos poders s'atura | Registered: Dec 2007
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It is a very difficult topic, it has to be said. I never thought I would be a weak woman. I came from a very loving set of parents. I had an ex who liked being in control, and with me admission was embarrasment. So my friends never knew what went on. Because I hid things very well. I had no bruises to show, he was more subtle than that. He was very good at convincing me that I was in the wrong. The nights I spent on the settee, scared of what was going to happen were numerous. I'm just glad my parents were not alive to know.! It was basically about pride. Was also very lucky I had no children involved. I sleep in my bed easily now, which is lovely. I just feel for all the women that are going through so much more than I ever did Posts: 4476 | From: Scotland | Registered: Mar 2006
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Group furry friend hug for all on this thread
It is a shame that so many people do put themselves through this. Its a pity that we dont make a list like mine above, when we are in pre-school!
Because really its all about self worth, and what we feel is an acceptable way to be treated. Many times I would say to myself 'I wouldn't say that to him, so why is he saying it to me' But I still put up with it didn't I, so indirectly I was saying 'it's o.k for you to treat me this way' which its not.
So I guess the question would be, why do we humans treat each other so badly? I mean I can sit here in my house and I know my next door neighbours are abusive to each other, or at least one of them is.
A few doors down another pair, two doors down from them two more pairs, and thats just people that I know...??? My own parents dont speak nicely to each other, majority of the time.
Please people, think of those around you, is it the same? are the majority disrespectful to each other or respectful, out of the people YOU know?
Posts: 918 | From: Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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Talking is therapy, and in the begining its hard so hard and then the tears fall and fall, and then you realy feel so much better, like a light is shining over you, and the confidence is unreal, it takes time, but rome wasnt built in 1 day. Good luck.
posted
YR, you are right, it is a difficult thing but it can be so uplifting. I have only opened up more now I am older.
Caterpillar,I was also taught only weak people cry!!! what a crock eh! I never cry though now, I never have but maybe I am the one who is weak! Please though guys, don't make me cry!!!
Caterpillar, I think people treat other people so badly because that is how it was for them, a bully in a relationship was probably bullied by his father, his father bullied by his father etc. Maybe the woman saw her mum accept it, and her mum accept it etc... one big horrible violent circle.
Sometimes I also think if you are told something often enough then it must be true... !!! conditioning peeople in a negative way makes the bully feel in control...
i know a lot of disrespectful people, but all seem a generation above me, my generation I see a few but the one below me tends not to have any and I always figured that is become women stand up for themselves more and are financially stable etc... I admire these women as they have took back control. I may be way off the mark but I do see a vast difference in what seems to be acceptable in different generations.
Caterpillar, you should only ever allow yourself to be treated in the same way you would want people to treat you. xx
Posts: 11097 | From: Cairo | Registered: May 2008
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its funny isn't it, how obvious that list is, yet for people who are in it, they just dont see it so clearly.![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
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I can only live in hope a baby will placate him but part of me knows once a bully always a bully. I have even watched him bully the daughter and it makes bile rise!!!! I am her only friend who has told him exactly how I feel. He has even tried to come between us but I will not allow that to happen.
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