posted
Saudi executes Egyptian for practising "witchcraft"
Fri 2 Nov 2007, 19:44 GMT
RIYADH, Nov 2 (Reuters) - Saudi Arabia executed on Friday an Egyptian man convicted of "sorcery", desecrating the Muslim holy book and adultery, the official news agency said.
The Saudi Press Agency said Mustafa Ibrahim was put to death in Riyadh in a controversial case which has drawn criticism from rights activists.
It said Ibrahim had been accused by another foreign resident of practicing magic in order to separate him from his wife and said evidence had been found in his home, including books on black magic, a candle with an incantation "to summon devils" and "foul-smelling herbs".
"He confessed to adultery with a woman and desecrating the Koran by placing it in the bathroom," the agency said.
Saudi media first reported the case in April, saying mosque worshippers had complained that a pharmacist in the northern desert town of Arar had placed copies of the Koran in washrooms. No accusation of adultery was mentioned at the time.
Clerics of Saudi Arabia's austere form of Islam, known as Wahhabism, take accusations of sorcery seriously and recently held a conference in Riyadh on how to combat it. Clerics dominate the legal system, acting as judges.
"This is a sad day for justice in Saudi Arabia. This execution is a clear indicator of the medieval character of the Saudi judicial system," said Ali al-Ahmed, a Washington-based rights activist of Saudi Arabia's Shi'ite Muslim minority.
"This man was murdered in cold blood while the Saudi king is in Europe being touted as a reformer ... This man was sentenced to death without any explicit evidence to prove what was perceived as violation of the law," he told Reuters.
Executions are usually carried out by public beheading with a sword for murder, rape, drug smuggling and armed robbery.
Saudi authorities say they apply strict Islamic law which ensures full rights for Muslims and non-Muslims. Families of victims have the right to waive the death sentence and claim financial compensation instead.
But in an apparent acknowledgement of problems, King Abdullah last month announced a reform of the court system which the state-run government Human Rights Commission said will include putting the penal code in writing.
Friday's execution takes the total number of executions this year to well over 120, compared with a record of 192 recorded by Reuters for all of 1995.
Hands Off Cain (www.handsoffcain.info), a Rome-based anti-death penalty group, said there were 119 executions in the first six months of 2007. Only around 38 people were executed in 2006.
-------------------- your ass is so tight when you fart only a dog can hear it.when you queef only a cat can hear that one. Posts: 9776 | From: You like If only mosquitoes sucked fat instead of blood. | Registered: Jul 2007
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quote:Originally posted by tina kamal: they are so damn stupid thats crazy
Why to you say that Tina? What about the article didn't you like or disagreed with, tell us? Was it the witchcraft, disrespecting the Quran, the man committing adultery? Or the punishment for the crimes committed? Please elaborate.
Posts: 2342 | From: Its not where I'm from but where Im going | Registered: Jul 2007
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posted
No, I don't. I only believe in good people and good intentions. (I am not commenting on the topic.)
Posts: 2932 | From: Just now and then | Registered: Nov 2006
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posted
Few people know that Muhammad says in the Quran that he takes refuge in Allah from evil witches who cast spells.
Few people know that early reliable Islamic sources reveal that before Muhammad's ministry went public in Mecca, he nearly committed suicide multiple times.
Few people know that early reliable Islamic sources say that he was bewitched by a Jewish magician for 'a long period' in Medina.
But maybe more people know that early reliable Islamic sources says that Muhammad believed Satan inspired him, out of his despair, to recite some verses that made it into the Quran—the so—called Satanic verses.
To repeat, these facts come from reliable early Islamic sources, not from the imagination of non—Muslims. This cannot be overemphasized. Early Muslim scholars themselves report these events and beliefs held by their prophet. Muhammad and Jesus against satan
Muhammad (pbuh) was superstitious. He believed in the power of the "evil eye" and told people to recite the Quran to fight it (Vol 7, no. 636). He believed in bad and good omens such as the appearance of certain birds and other animals (vol.4, nos.110,111; vol.7, nos.648-650). Muhammad kissed and adored the black stone in the Ka'ba (vol.2, no. 667). He was superstitious about even numbers. He always avoided them (vol.1, no.162). Muhammad believed that if you placed a green palm leaf on the grave of those suffering in that grave, their pain would be lessened as it dried (vol.2,no.443). To prove the depth of Muhammad's belief in and fear of magic, one need only read (vol. 7, nos. 656-664).
Sahih Muslim, Book 25, Number 5448: Narrated Anas ibn Malik:
In connection with incantation Anas reported that he had been granted sanction (to use incantation as a remedy) for the sting of the scorpion and for curing small pustules and dispelling the influence of an evil eye.
Sahih Bukhari, Volume 7, Book 65, Number 356, claims that Sad said:
Allah's Apostle said, "He who eats seven 'Ajwa dates every morning, will not be affected by poison or magic on the day he eats them."
Also, Sahih Muslim, Book 25, Number 5531: Narrated Jabir ibn Abdullah:
Allah's Messenger (peace_be_upon_him) said: If bad luck were to be in anything, it is found in the land, in the servant and in the horse.
The philosphical problem with these beliefs in superstition, is that they conflict with the idea of a sovereign, all-powerful God. If one believes in God and in the power of God's will, what is the purpose of superstitions? Can any of these things alter or over-ride the will of an all-powerful God? Muhammad's belief in superstitions, seriously undermines the theological ideas that he preached and casts doubt on the validity of all of his purported "revelations".
I most certainly condone proper hygiene and good manners, however, the excessive attention that some pay to the tiny details of Muhammad's personal habits reminds me of some religious cults where every move of the leader is copied. I do not believe that God really cares if I put on my right or left shoe first!
We are also given a passage from the Qur'an which has some historical and philosophical problems:
O Messenger! Make known that which hath been revealed unto thee from thy Lord, for if thou do it not, thou will not have conveyed His message. Allah will protect thee from mankind. Lo! Allah guideth not the disbelieving folk. Holy Qur'an 5:67
The problem with this passage is that God did not protect Muhammad from mankind! In fact, Muhammad died as a result of being poisoned.
We must test both the message and the messenger in order to determine if they are from God. Clearly, when we look at the life example of Muhammad, according to Muslim sources, he did not live a life of righteousness before God and should not be an example for us. Also, according to the Qur'an, Muhammad brought no proofs of prophethood - no miracles and no prophecies. Muhammad's teachings also contradicted the teachings and prophecies of God's prophets. Once again, I believe that Christians and Muslims must examine the message and messenger of both Islam and Christianity.
Posts: 3188 | Registered: Feb 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Undercover: Few people know that Muhammad says in the Quran that he takes refuge in Allah from evil witches who cast spells.
Few people know that early reliable Islamic sources reveal that before Muhammad's ministry went public in Mecca, he nearly committed suicide multiple times.
Few people know that early reliable Islamic sources say that he was bewitched by a Jewish magician for 'a long period' in Medina.
But maybe more people know that early reliable Islamic sources says that Muhammad believed Satan inspired him, out of his despair, to recite some verses that made it into the Quran—the so—called Satanic verses.
To repeat, these facts come from reliable early Islamic sources, not from the imagination of non—Muslims. This cannot be overemphasized. Early Muslim scholars themselves report these events and beliefs held by their prophet. Muhammad and Jesus against satan
Muhammad (pbuh) was superstitious. He believed in the power of the "evil eye" and told people to recite the Quran to fight it (Vol 7, no. 636). He believed in bad and good omens such as the appearance of certain birds and other animals (vol.4, nos.110,111; vol.7, nos.648-650). Muhammad kissed and adored the black stone in the Ka'ba (vol.2, no. 667). He was superstitious about even numbers. He always avoided them (vol.1, no.162). Muhammad believed that if you placed a green palm leaf on the grave of those suffering in that grave, their pain would be lessened as it dried (vol.2,no.443). To prove the depth of Muhammad's belief in and fear of magic, one need only read (vol. 7, nos. 656-664).
Sahih Muslim, Book 25, Number 5448: Narrated Anas ibn Malik:
In connection with incantation Anas reported that he had been granted sanction (to use incantation as a remedy) for the sting of the scorpion and for curing small pustules and dispelling the influence of an evil eye.
Sahih Bukhari, Volume 7, Book 65, Number 356, claims that Sad said:
Allah's Apostle said, "He who eats seven 'Ajwa dates every morning, will not be affected by poison or magic on the day he eats them."
Also, Sahih Muslim, Book 25, Number 5531: Narrated Jabir ibn Abdullah:
Allah's Messenger (peace_be_upon_him) said: If bad luck were to be in anything, it is found in the land, in the servant and in the horse.
The philosphical problem with these beliefs in superstition, is that they conflict with the idea of a sovereign, all-powerful God. If one believes in God and in the power of God's will, what is the purpose of superstitions? Can any of these things alter or over-ride the will of an all-powerful God? Muhammad's belief in superstitions, seriously undermines the theological ideas that he preached and casts doubt on the validity of all of his purported "revelations".
I most certainly condone proper hygiene and good manners, however, the excessive attention that some pay to the tiny details of Muhammad's personal habits reminds me of some religious cults where every move of the leader is copied. I do not believe that God really cares if I put on my right or left shoe first!
We are also given a passage from the Qur'an which has some historical and philosophical problems:
O Messenger! Make known that which hath been revealed unto thee from thy Lord, for if thou do it not, thou will not have conveyed His message. Allah will protect thee from mankind. Lo! Allah guideth not the disbelieving folk. Holy Qur'an 5:67
The problem with this passage is that God did not protect Muhammad from mankind! In fact, Muhammad died as a result of being poisoned.
We must test both the message and the messenger in order to determine if they are from God. Clearly, when we look at the life example of Muhammad, according to Muslim sources, he did not live a life of righteousness before God and should not be an example for us. Also, according to the Qur'an, Muhammad brought no proofs of prophethood - no miracles and no prophecies. Muhammad's teachings also contradicted the teachings and prophecies of God's prophets. Once again, I believe that Christians and Muslims must examine the message and messenger of both Islam and Christianity.
Insha Allah I'm going to have fun with the ^^^ post later..I love it when you kaffirs get me started.
The above post showns your lack of Islamic knowledge and what the Quran and Ahadeeth says about the GREATEST man that ever walked the face of the earth..You quoted ahadeeth from Al Bukhari and Al Muslim..I will use the same sources to prove you and the author of the post wrong bi'itnillah!
Posts: 2342 | From: Its not where I'm from but where Im going | Registered: Jul 2007
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posted
I think the greater issue is what compelled this man to practice something that he knew could lead to a negative outcome while living in a country so reputed for its religious intolerance.
Posts: 820 | Registered: Mar 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Formerly a Lackey,and Moving On Up: I think the greater issue is what compelled this man to practice something that he knew could lead to a negative outcome while living in a country so reputed for its religious intolerance.
I disagree. Saudis are very tolerant of Al-Islaam. They just have a low tolerance of people who desecrate the Quran, committ adultery (a crime punishable by death in Saudi Arabia) and hate those who practice magic.
Posts: 2342 | From: Its not where I'm from but where Im going | Registered: Jul 2007
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posted
I meant, intolerant against other religious faiths. I know very well Saudi Arabia's stance about Islam. Obviously, you didn't understand the intention of my statement.
And as far desecrating the Qu'ran, he should not have done it.
Posts: 820 | Registered: Mar 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Formerly a Lackey,and Moving On Up: Actually, its was a typing mistake. I meant, intolerant against other religious faiths. I know very well Saudi Arabia's stance about Islam. And as far desecrating the Qu'ran, he should not have done it.
Saudi Arabia is not a tourist country. They don't issue visas for tourism. It is basically a closed country i.e. society except for those who perfom Islamic rites and working in the Kingdom. Why should they be concerned with other religious faiths?
Posts: 2342 | From: Its not where I'm from but where Im going | Registered: Jul 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Somewhere in the sands:
quote:Originally posted by Formerly a Lackey,and Moving On Up: Actually, its was a typing mistake. I meant, intolerant against other religious faiths. I know very well Saudi Arabia's stance about Islam. And as far desecrating the Qu'ran, he should not have done it.
Saudi Arabia is not a tourist country. They don't issue visas for tourism. It is basically a closed country i.e. society except for those who perfom Islamic rites and working in the Kingdom. Why should they be concerned with other religious faiths?
Obviously, you missed the point. But, look within your own statement and you'll find the answer.
Posts: 820 | Registered: Mar 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Formerly a Lackey,and Moving On Up:
quote:Originally posted by Somewhere in the sands:
quote:Originally posted by Formerly a Lackey,and Moving On Up: Actually, its was a typing mistake. I meant, intolerant against other religious faiths. I know very well Saudi Arabia's stance about Islam. And as far desecrating the Qu'ran, he should not have done it.
Saudi Arabia is not a tourist country. They don't issue visas for tourism. It is basically a closed country i.e. society except for those who perfom Islamic rites and working in the Kingdom. Why should they be concerned with other religious faiths?
Obviously, you missed the point. But, look within your own statement and you'll find the answer.
I disagree..It didnt answer YOUR original question. What would compell that person to...blah blah blah..?
But here is my answer: RICH SAUDI MONEY!
Posts: 2342 | From: Its not where I'm from but where Im going | Registered: Jul 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Somewhere in the sands:
quote:Originally posted by Formerly a Lackey,and Moving On Up:
quote:Originally posted by Somewhere in the sands:
quote:Originally posted by Formerly a Lackey,and Moving On Up: Actually, its was a typing mistake. I meant, intolerant against other religious faiths. I know very well Saudi Arabia's stance about Islam. And as far desecrating the Qu'ran, he should not have done it.
Saudi Arabia is not a tourist country. They don't issue visas for tourism. It is basically a closed country i.e. society except for those who perfom Islamic rites and working in the Kingdom. Why should they be concerned with other religious faiths?
Obviously, you missed the point. But, look within your own statement and you'll find the answer.
I disagree..It didnt answer YOUR original question. What would compell that person to...blah blah blah..?
quote:Originally posted by Formerly a Lackey,and Moving On Up: And as far desecrating the Qu'ran, he should not have done it.
Why is putting the Qur'an into a washroom automatically a desecration?
Basic Islaam 101
Because the bathroom in considered a filthy place. It is a place where the evil Jinn hangout. It is a place where you go to relieve yourself and clean the dirt from you.
Posts: 2342 | From: Its not where I'm from but where Im going | Registered: Jul 2007
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posted
Maybe your bathroom is a filthy place, I know mine isn't.
Sorry, but to me that's just as ridiculous as claiming I'm *desecrating* the Qur'an when I touch it while having my period.
Posts: 3587 | Registered: Mar 2006
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posted
It is the difference between ritual impurity (najis) and physical impurity. Earth, for example, is normally considered by most people to be dirty, i.e. if you get earth on your clothes, you would consider them to be "dirty", but they would not be considered to be "ritually impure/dirty" according to Islam. However, if that earth contained urine or faeces, then it would be considered to be ritually impure, and we should change them before we perform the act of worship of prayer.
There are certain things that have been designated in Islam as ritually impure. For example, to perform the prayer we have to take ablution if we have broken our state of ritual purity by sleeping, breaking wind, urinating, or defecating. But if we have sexual intercourse or menstruate, we have to take a ritual bath to regain the state of ritual purity to be able to pray again. None of those acts in themselves are actually "dirty", but they are considered to have broken the state of ritual purity.
Posts: 4576 | From: Cairo | Registered: Jun 2002
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But, as you know, I have researched the issue as well, and I've come to the conclusion that I am not "ritually impure" when having my period. So I wouldn't see anything wrong with praying, fasting or touching the Qur'an during that time.
Btw, I am often shocked at how people treat copies of the Qur'an in Egypt. I've seen it lying on grimey, dusty bookshelves in filthy offices, on dashboards of cars, exposed to dust, dirt and pollution all day long, and nobody seems to see anything wrong with this. Yet people tell you not to touch the Qur'an when you're menstruating or not to put it in the bathroom which to me is kind of contradictory.
This reminds me ... I have a beatiful ring with ayat al kursi on it, and when I bought it the guy warned me not to wear it when entering a bathroom. I understood his concern, but I was wondering whether everyone who wears this sort of jewelry takes if off every time before they walk into a bathroom ...
Posts: 3587 | Registered: Mar 2006
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posted
I just wanted to clarify it for those who weren't aware of the differences between ritual impurity and dirty and may have been confused by what you wrote. Posts: 4576 | From: Cairo | Registered: Jun 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Dalia*: Maybe your bathroom is a filthy place, I know mine isn't.
Sorry, but to me that's just as ridiculous as claiming I'm *desecrating* the Qur'an when I touch it while having my period.
I don't know why I bother with you sometimes in answering questions that you already know the answers to. You only want to cause confusing and division.
However, the question was not answered because of you, but it was answered because of the doubt that you try to strike into the hearts of the Believers.
Alhamdulillah NewComer clarified the matter between the two types of impurities (which) I am sure you were already aware of and now Alhamdulillah others as well. Barakallahu feeki ya NewComer! Great reply!
Posts: 2342 | From: Its not where I'm from but where Im going | Registered: Jul 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Dalia*: This reminds me ... I have a beatiful ring with ayat al kursi on it, and when I bought it the guy warned me not to wear it when entering a bathroom. I understood his concern, but I was wondering whether everyone who wears this sort of jewelry takes if off every time before they walk into a bathroom ...
I seem to remember that this was discussed at the time; when you bought it.
Posts: 4576 | From: Cairo | Registered: Jun 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Somewhere in the sands: I don't know why I bother with you sometimes in answering questions that you already know the answers to.
I don't know either. I would prefer it if you would just ignore me. Posts: 3587 | Registered: Mar 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Somewhere in the sands: I don't know why I bother with you sometimes in answering questions that you already know the answers to.
I don't know either. I would prefer it if you would just ignore me.
I am. Like I said my post was not directly towards you! It was towards your garbage.
When you become a Muslim after all of your hard studying about Islaam..I certainly hope you adopt a correct understanding of Islaam, for everyones sake.
Posts: 2342 | From: Its not where I'm from but where Im going | Registered: Jul 2007
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quote:Originally posted by newcomer: I seem to remember that this was discussed at the time; when you bought it.
Yes ... if I remember correctly I asked about it but didn't really get any answers. Hm. Actually, I'm still wondering.
Posts: 3587 | Registered: Mar 2006
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posted
i think that killin cas of someones beliefs are stupid i didnt say he was right i dont believe in witch craft but killin him is stupid
-------------------- your ass is so tight when you fart only a dog can hear it.when you queef only a cat can hear that one. Posts: 9776 | From: You like If only mosquitoes sucked fat instead of blood. | Registered: Jul 2007
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