posted
Many Egyptians here think they have no black race in their genes. I think they are seriously kidding themselves.
The African Americans are so upset that their heros' decendants have become very light after intermarrying with lighter skin races and reject them as the inheritors of the AE legacy, who else should inherit the AE legacy but their grandchildren of the founders of AE, I SAY TO THE BLACK AMERICANS.
Well may be because I have lived in Sudan, I have a different attitude from most Egyotians, not realizing that I have a black race in my gene and my ancestors live within Africa for the last 7000 years seems just funny if I believe I don't have this black genes.
Living also in America, just make me wonder where the afro americans will take their NONSENSE THEORIES TO, until when they will live in ficticious theories.
Remembering North Sudan, that is a funny place where you will be mistreated if you are Sudanese who is too black, or too white, there the brown race is the master race.
quote:Many Egyptians here think they have no black race in their genes. I think they are seriously kidding themselves.
You are partially right. But some modern day Egyptians are of pure foreign blood and have no relation to the ancient Egyptians at all.
quote:The African Americans are so upset that their heros' decendants have become very light after intermarrying with lighter skin races and reject them as the inheritors of the AE legacy, who else should inherit the AE legacy but their grandchildren of the founders of AE, I SAY TO THE BLACK AMERICANS.
Not all the blacks here are even African Americans, I don't think, plus what makes you think they don't accept the fact that many Egyptians have mixed with foreigners? They are only saying ancient Egyptians were pure African!
By the way, of course you're bewildered, we don't call you 1ARM and mixed-up for nothing LOL regards!
[This message has been edited by Djehuti (edited 14 June 2005).]
Posts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
I know Egypt and its people of today very well more than any none egyptian here.
I can say with certainty that no one in Egypt is of a pure race.
Some want to claim the ruling elite of today as foreigners, for your information, most of those ruling elite of today are the children of the 1952 revolution, children of middle class and farmers of Egypt, not children of Turks.
Plus even the ruling elite of the period prior to 1952 have mixed with Felahin, there is no one in Egypt which is pure. Some Egyptian are very white, but if you don't know them, you will not know that they had a grandmother or grandfather who is brown like Sadat.
There is no way you can divide Egypt into different racial groups today, except for few bedouins, outside the cities or some Greek COMMUNITIES WHO ARE VERY LITTLE IN NUMBERS. They will not amount to 1 0r 2 million and have no influence in today;s politics or ecoonomics, of the 80 million naion.
Any attempt to try to say hey this Egyptian is too white therefore has nothing to do with Africa while his family has lived for 3-6 generations in Egypt, is full of holes. Why because I know hundreds of people in Egypt personally who look as white as George Bush and have grandfathers who look like Denzel Washington.
posted
Well, you've now started threads in which you admit to being threatened, and now "bewildered." I'm not sure how you want us to help you, but I will give you an honest opinion:
I think you've locked yourself into and identity construct that you find unsatisfactory.
So you want to change the way 'other people' [Egyptians/African Americans] think, so you can feel better about yourself.
This may not work though, as the process has to start from within, and once it does, what other people think becomes irrelevant.
posted
"By the way, of course you're bewildered, we don't call you 1ARM and mixed-up for nothing LOL regards!"
LOL But he made some point here you can be white as George W Bush and still have African admixture genetically. Okay I was being little harsh when I said those modern whiter looking Egyptian mulattos had absolute nothing to do with Ancient Egypt. Yes they can be proud of their African blood if they want to. But the problem is they deny their African blood and still try to be part of the Ancient Egypt you can’t have both way. It defies science. 1ARM, You either accept your African heritage, and be part of Ancient Egypt or you deny it and not be part of Ancient Egypt; it's very simple. Just don't say you were direct ancestors of Ancient Egypt you are only part because you are mixed. (that's ausar, a Fellahin, purest descendants of AE) Again I think we showed you enough proof that the real Ancient Egyptians were black Africans.
OT: Pistons won YES! lol
[This message has been edited by Atheist (edited 15 June 2005).]
posted
In regard to AE, were they pure Africans, but light skin or were they mixed that is why they have light skin, not strictly black.
I am still with the second group, I believe the migration that happened 10000 years ago due to the great weather changes is why the Turks and Persians moved to Mesoptamia, and many moved to the Nile valley also.
These great human movement and intermixing is what triggered the human civilization.
But what I can not understand is why Egyptians reject today that they were partly with black ancestry and also why Black Africans can not accept the inheritors of AE, as those current Egyptians, white as they are, we know why they are white more than we know for sure why the AE were not black but browns and light brown.
Also the pictures of dark brown are usually from upper Egypt. King Mena defeated the lower Egyptian who were for me were almost white and I can not see their skin tone as simply pure african with no mixing, but just very light skin and that is all.
I am not confused of history, I am confused of teh attitude of black americans specifically and Egyptians who want to be white by any way or form while their ancestry is partly black for sure.
why the sensitivity of being partly black, what is the big deal?
posted
By the way, imagine Egypt is like America 5000 years ago under King Mena. Imagine many peoples coming into Egypt as guests and immigrants seeking food and shelter
This is what is happening to Egypt for 1800 years before King Tut was born, before any serious invasions but like we see today in America, many come to save themselves.
This last 500 years changed America dramatically. Imagine 1800 years what it will do to Egypt. Egyptians were changing racially without wars and killings but while they had the upper hand.
So I am not surprised to see King Tut lighter skin than King Mena of the first dynasty, as Hawass and his team portrayed King Tut as light skin Egyptian.
You don't get it do you? You don't have to be jet black in color to be indigenous African. Plus they are not light-skinned but various color of brown just like the Africans, African-Americans, and black people of today. I know they didn't have much mixing except for rare occasion; the royals and pharos of ancient egyptians were mainly pure Africans. Reason is they married within their family members to keep the bloodline pure and clean. King Tut his skull, and his overall facial structure shown in the golden mask is a look of an African not a mixed one.
Waryaa,
Me too, I can't in my wildest dream how modern day Mulattos Arabs(adding those mixed wannabe somali) that do nothing but *drive cabs and *flip hamburgers in burger king had anything to do with pharos and kings of ancient egypt.
*basically only jobs available for latinos, arabs, and mulattos in USA.
[This message has been edited by Atheist (edited 15 June 2005).]
posted
Anyway who listen to crap like 50, eminem or The Game these days lmao. I'm a hip hop fan myself and only white suburban kids listen to that kind of garbage. How about Nas, Ras Kass, Talib Kweli, Krs-1, and ATCQ? Many of them are highly educated and know what they are talking about unlike Eminem who cries about his mommy and make fun of boy bands- typical stuff most white people relate to. Listening to him is like nail scratching a chalkboard.
This is one of many well-written lyrics in hip hop.
Nature of the Threat
Ras Kass
Let freedom ring with a buckshot, but not just yet First we need to truly understand the nature of the threat And a pale man walks in the threshold of darkness Roughly 20,000 years ago the first humans evolved with the phenotypical trait, genetic recessive Blue eyes, blonde hair and white skin Albinism apparently was a sin to the original man, Africans So the mutants traveled North of the equator Called Europeans later, the first race haters So here's the Devil's alpha to the beta Cause history's best qualified to teach one Quoting German philosopher Schopenhauer Every white man is a faded or a bleached one Migration created further mutation Genetic drifts, evolution through recombination Adaptation to the climate As the Caucus Mountain man reverted to that of a primate Savage Neanderthals, until the late Paleolithic age That's when the Black Grimaldi man came With the symbol of the dragon, fire and art Check cave paintings in France and Spain to the Venus of Willendorf Around 2000 B.C. Southern Russians migrate in small units Those who travel West populated Europe Those who went East settled in Iran, known as Aryans 1500 B.C. some crossed the Khyber Pass into India and created Hinduism, the first caste system, the origins of racism A white dot on the forehead meant elite The black dot - defeat; untrustable, untouchables They wrote the holy Vedas in Sanskrit That's the language that created Greek, German, Latin and English Now the Minoans around 2000 B.C. Starts on the island of Crete, in the Agean Sea The Greek culture begins Western Civilization But Western Civilization means White Domination Myceneans learned from Kemet, called Egypt in Greek It existed since at least 3000 B.C. Creatin geometry and astronomy This knowledge influenced Plato, Socrates and Hippocrates Cause Imhotep, the real real father of medicine Was worshiped in Greece and Rome in the form of a Black African The word Africa comes from the Greek Aphrike meaning without cold; the word philosophy means love of knowledge Stole from first man, Greek power expands The first Greek fraternities band The word gymnasium is Greek for naked This was the place where adolescent boys were educated, and molested This was accepted because Greek culture was homosexual For example, Sappho trained girls on the island of Lesbos Hence, the word lesbian (Ay let these dumb motherfuckers know) December 25th, the birth of Saturn A homosexual god, now check the historical pattern December 25, now thought the birth of Christ Was Saturnalia, when men got drunk, fucked each other then beat their wife Fact is, it was still practiced, til they called it Christmas So put a gerbil on your Christmas list The Hellenistic Era, Alexander the Great Conquers all the way to India leavin four successor states By the Fifth century B.C., R.O.M.E. succeeds to be the conqueror of Egypt and Greece But had the threat of the Black Phoenicians in Sicily The Punic Wars began 264 B.C. The Black general Hannibal and Carthaginian Peace In 146 B.C. Carthage fell after a six-month siege Rome sold every citizen to slavery The first genocide of history And more bisexuality in sight; Julius Caesar was known as every woman's husband and every man's wife (BEOTCH!) Spartacus Revolt, a slave rebellion that lost Where 6,000 slaves was nailed on a cross Cross? Aw, **** ! Jesus Christ! Time for some-act-right Christians get your facts right Cause Christ was not his name That's Greek for One who is anointed Yoshua Ben Yosef was his name, do Christians know this? So who do you praise, do you know his name? Or do you do this in vain? Accepting the religion they gave slaves to behave Peep the description of historian Josephus Short, dark, with an underdeveloped beard was Jesus He had the Romans fearing revolution The solution was to take him to court and falsely accuse him After being murdered by Pilate how can it be these same white Romans established Christianity Constantine would later see the cross in a dream In his vision, it read En Hawk Signo Wonka: In this sign we conquer - Manifest Destiny In 325 he convened the Nicean Creed And separated god into three Decided Jesus was born on December 25th and raised then on the third day is a myth Plus to deceive us Commissioned Michelangelo to paint white pictures of Jesus He used his aunt, uncle, and nephew Subconsciously that affects you It makes you put white people closer to God (Yo, 'The Man' got game like a motherfucker!) True indeed, **** it, Jihad In the eight century Muslims conquered Spain, Portugal and France and controlled it for 700 years They never mention this in history class cause o'fays are threatened when you get the real lesson Moors from Baghdad, Turkey threatened European Christians Meaning, the white way of life; hence the Crusades for Christ On November 25th, 1491 Santiago defeats the last Muslim stronghold, Grenada King Ferdinand gave thanks to God for victory And the Pope of Rome and declared this date to forever be A day of Thanksgiving for all European Christians .. Now listen, when you celebrate Thanksgiving What you are actually celebratin is the proclamation of the Pope of Rome Who later, in league with Queen Isabella sent Cardinal Ximenos to Spain to murder any blacks that resisted Christianity These Moors, these black men and women were from Baghdad, Turkey And today, you eat the turkey, for your Thanksgiving day as the European Powers destroyed the Turkeys Who were the forefathers of your mothers and fathers Now fight the power, you bitch-ass niggaz! Now around this time, Whites started callings us Negroes That's Spanish for black object meaning we're not really people but profit, and the triangle trade begins - they seize us Queen Elizabeth sends the first slaves on a ship named Jesus Stealin land from the indigenous natives Gave them alcohol to keep the Red Man intoxicated Whites claim they had to civilize these pagan animals But up until 1848 there's documented cases of whites bein the savage cannibals, eatin Indians In 1992, it's Jeffery Dahmer They slaughtered a whole race with guns Drugs, priests and nuns 1763, the first demonic tactic of biological warfare As tokens of peace, Sir Jeffery Amherst passed out clothin and blankets to the Indian community Infested with small pox, knowin they had no immunity Today it's AIDS, you best believe it's man made Cause ain't a damn thing changed.. let me explain Now since people of color are genetically dominant and Caucasoids are genetically recessive and Whites expect to be predominant, meaning survive as a race then they simply must, take precautions That's why they're worried about their future now Cuz by 2050, almost all the Earth's population will be brown, then black, so understandin that, whites counterreact (I'm sayin.. man.. them fools ain't nothin but a teaspoon of milk in the world color majority) So they created a system to force blacks into an unnatural position That re-enforces the position of natural inferiority In addition, created guns and developed the ethnocentric view that God justifies every fuckin thing they do Condition people to perceive whites' culture as civilized and every other culture considered primitive - not true! Racism is the system of racial subjugation against nonwhites in every areas of human relation Entertainment, education, labor, politics Law, religion, sex, war and economics See blacks were 3/5ths of a man with tax purposes intended You think you're Afro-American? You're a 14th amendment and a good nigga Jews don't salute the fuckin swastika but niggaz pledge allegiance to the flag that accosted ya They never teach about the break of islands like Jamaica But before slaves came here whites would take a pregnant women, hang her from a tree by her toes Slice her stomach with a knife and let the unborn baby fall to the flo' And stop an unborn child in front of all the slaves to inbreed fear, so they'd be scared and behave and not rebel more Understand all whites must be perceived as potential predators I paraphrase historian Ishakamusa Barashango Understand that regardless of the lofty ideas ingraved on paper in such documents as the Constitution or Declaration the basic nature.. of the European American white man remains virtually unchanged.. so check This is the nature of the threat http://lyrics.duble.com/lyrics/R/ras-kass-lyrics/ras-kass-nature-of-the-threat-lyrics.htm
Me too, I can't in my wildest dream how modern day Mulattos Arabs(adding those mixed wannabe somali) that do nothing but *drive cabs and *flip hamburgers in burger king had anything to do with pharos and kings of ancient egypt. <http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/smile.gif>
*basically only jobs available for latinos, arabs, and mulattos in USA.
Athiest, don't you think the following statement has a somewhat racist slant to it. Listen I am not the biggest fan of Arabs,but to say that Arabs,latinos,and mulatos only flip hamburgers is somewhat misleading and racist.
Each of these people are humanbeings and deserve some respect. Constanly making statements as the following shows your own insecurity.
Most of the so-called Arabs in America happen to be various Christian groups. The area with the highest population of Arabs is in Dearborn,Michigan. Most are Iraqi and Lebanese Arabs.
Athiest,antagonizing people instead of supporting information with facts will never get you much credibility. If you disagree with what a person types on this board then attack them with logic and not with ad hominen or insulting their racial group.
Please relax with calling people mullatos. This is getting rather trite.
Posts: 8675 | From: Tukuler al~Takruri as Ardo since OCT2014 | Registered: Feb 2003
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posted
Okay relax I think "what a guy called 50 Cent* or The Game* has to do with Pharaohic Egypt" statements like that and calling people "nigger" and "apes" are just as insulting and racist as what I said. But I guess there are one too many of those types to really warn every one of them. To be honest many posts in here are racially motivated if you ask me- “Egyptians Were a Master Race of People”, “More Afronut Hypocrisy” these types of racially motivated threads are asking for insults but yeah I understand your concern I'll tone it down with the mulatto thing Actually most of the time I’m being very sarcastic also mixed with some humor. Only the real insecure ones would feel insulted. Cheer.
[This message has been edited by Atheist (edited 15 June 2005).]
posted
I am not bewildered. I am disappointed, but not surprised.
To Afro-Americans
You can not have your paternal side living in EGYPT, forget about thousands of years or maternal sides across the centuries and be pure immigrant in Egypt.
Secondly all intermixing in Egypt happened in peace by foreign people seeking to live in Egypt with Egyptians, not invaders. Very few documented incidents by invaders of Rape in 7000 year history.
Regards,
[This message has been edited by AMR1 (edited 15 June 2005).]
[This message has been edited by AMR1 (edited 15 June 2005).]
posted
I am from an Egyptian family that would give a good Muslim man, our daughters, even if he was a convert to Islam. And I never thought of myself as an exception in Egypt. So to claim any of the 94% Muslims in Egypt as pure.
It sounds really off for me.
[This message has been edited by AMR1 (edited 15 June 2005).]
quote:1ARM says: I know Egypt and its people of today very well more than any none egyptian here.
Apparently not as well as the Fellah, Ausar!
quote:..I can say with certainty that no one in Egypt is of a pure race.
How? Have you been to every single part of Egypt? Have you seen every group of people there, even in Sa'idi Fellahin? Better yet, have you done DNA tests on every group in the country?
quote:..Some want to claim the ruling elite of today as foreigners, for your information, most of those ruling elite of today are the children of the 1952 revolution, children of middle class and farmers of Egypt, not children of Turks.
They don't look it.
quote:..Plus even the ruling elite of the period prior to 1952 have mixed with Felahin, there is no one in Egypt which is pure. Some Egyptian are very white, but if you don't know them, you will not know that they had a grandmother or grandfather who is brown like Sadat.
Most don't and would never marry anyone dark.
quote:senile 1ARM again repeats: In regard to AE, were they pure Africans, but light skin or were they mixed that is why they have light skin, not strictly black.
For the thousandth time, Peoples of the same race may vary in skin color!! For example many Asians in the south closer to the tropics are dark while many asians up north are light this does not necessasrily mean admixture! Pure black Africans vary the most in terms of skin color, there are people of the same reddish-brown hue in other parts of Africa like in Ethiopia and even in Kenya, or the northern part of West Africa. I showed you a picture of a San bushman of Southern Africa with yellowish brown skin and slanted eyes, does this mean she is mixed with Asian?! You never responded to my picture!!
quote:Imaginative 1ARM says: I am still with the second group, I believe the migration that happened 10000 years ago due to the great weather changes is why the Turks and Persians moved to Mesoptamia, and many moved to the Nile valley also.
Exactly where the heck did you get this info from?!! Yes there was a great wheather change 10000 years ago, in which North Africa became dry and began turning into the Sahara Desert we know now, but the only migrations into the Nile Valley were by Africans in the surrounding adjacent areas, not peoples from the Near-East!! The old "Dynastic Race Theory" that you keep trying to revive is an old corpse that is almost dust! This has become common fact now in Egyptian history and every Egyptologist today smirks at that notion, especially Hawass!!
quote:Mulatto advocate 1ARM says: These great human movement and intermixing is what triggered the human civilization.
Why does everyone have to be "intermixed" to trigger human civilization?!! What about the Chinese or the Native American Totecs? What about the other peoples in Africa that built civilizations in Sub-Sahara?!! You are mixed up is what you are, ane you need to get over this racially mixed supremacy thing you have!! Not everyone has to be "mixed" to accomplished things! Seriously, you are worse than Bryant Gumbo or Mariah Carey or something! If you are mixed that is great and fine, but no need to mix all the great peoples of the world in your mind!!
quote:deeply bewildered 1ARM says: But what I can not understand is why Egyptians reject today that they were partly with black ancestry and also why Black Africans can not accept the inheritors of AE, as those current Egyptians, white as they are, we know why they are white more than we know for sure why the AE were not black but browns and light brown.
How can you not understand why many modern Egyptians deny their black ancestry??!! Haven't you heard of a little something called RACISM??! Besides, many African Americans acknowledge the diversity of modern Egypt and know many of mixed but this doesn't change the fact the ancient Egyptians were not.
quote:ignorant 1ARM says: Also the pictures of dark brown are usually from upper Egypt. King Mena defeated the lower Egyptian who were for me were almost white and I can not see their skin tone as simply pure african with no mixing, but just very light skin and that is all.
It is simple science, really. The farther away from the equator a population is, the lighter its color tends to be. As I said before, many asians farther north are much lighter and almost white looking compared to asians farther south who are very dark. This is especially true in Africa. Again, I showed you a picture of aboriginal Southern Africans who has yellowish color skin!! They are not mixed with non-Africans at all, and in fact are the 'purest' compared to many black Africans of East and even West Africa that have mixed with non-Africans. So there is no reason why peoples of northern Egypt around the Delta should not have a light color as well.
quote:bewildered 1ARM says: I am not confused of history, I am confused of teh attitude of black americans specifically and Egyptians who want to be white by any way or form while their ancestry is partly black for sure.
why the sensitivity of being partly black, what is the big deal?
Again, it is because of racism!! Not only are you confused, but you must be in a deeply, utterly, and hoplessly state of confusion to not know this!!! As I said before, you must be going through some racial identity crisis or something, because you seem to be awfully confused over many basic facts of not just history, but modern social issues!!
quote:confused 1ARM says: By the way, imagine Egypt is like America 5000 years ago under King Mena. Imagine many peoples coming into Egypt as guests and immigrants seeking food and shelter
This is what is happening to Egypt for 1800 years before King Tut was born, before any serious invasions but like we see today in America, many come to save themselves.
Incorrect. No major migration into Egypt occured during Dynastic times except the Hyksos, but they were still a minority.
quote:confused 1ARM says: This last 500 years changed America dramatically. Imagine 1800 years what it will do to Egypt. Egyptians were changing racially without wars and killings but while they had the upper hand.
The only major migrations that altered Egypt's population dramatically was the Arab invasions of the 7th century C.E. The Arabs have been living in North Africa, but especially Egypt for well over a thousand years, so yes the population change is understandable, but this wasn't the case with dynastic Egypt.
quote:senile 1ARM says: So I am not surprised to see King Tut lighter skin than King Mena of the first dynasty, as Hawass and his team portrayed King Tut as light skin Egyptian.
We have also explained many times already that Hawass's portrayal of Tut is incorrect, and that it looks nothing like the ancient portraits made by people who've seen him!! The reconstruction has many discrepancies as I pointed out in a couple of threads!
quote:1ARM says: I am not bewildered. I am disappointed, but not surprised.
No you are just straight up bewildered, confused, and disoriented!! You are probably slow-witted as well!
quote:1ARM says: To Afro-Americans
You can not have your paternal side living in EGYPT, forget about thousands of years or maternal sides across the centuries and be pure immigrant in Egypt.
I don't know what the heck this means but the Sa'idi Fellahin are still the 'purest' Egyptians of the whole country!
quote:poor mixed-up 1ARM says: Secondly all intermixing in Egypt happened in peace by foreign people seeking to live in Egypt with Egyptians, not invaders. Very few documented incidents by invaders of Rape in 7000 year history.
I don't know about the rapes, but the Arab invasions were certainly not as peaceful as you think! And I don't think the invaders whated live with Egyptians so much as they wanted the Egyptians to live under them!! Ausar has given alot of info on how bad the Arabs treated indigenous Egyptians. Indigenous Egyptians were put in a caste as lowly laborers and agricultural workers and were over-taxed. Some were even sold as slaves. I suggest you ask Ausar about this, since he knows a lot about the later periods of Egyptian history. For an Egyptian, you on the other hand seem to know nothing about any period of Egyptian history!
quote:poor mixed-up 1ARM says: I am from an Egyptian family that would give a good Muslim man, our daughters, even if he was a convert to Islam. And I never thought of myself as an exception in Egypt. So to claim any of the 94% Muslims in Egypt as pure. It sounds really off for me.
No, everything is just off to you, because you are a confused fool!
REGARDS!!!
[This message has been edited by Djehuti (edited 15 June 2005).]
Posts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
Actually Egyptians will marry a Black American even if they are light. Not sure but I think their caste system is more economic than racial. Somewhat like it is in the states. Muslims in general are not overtly racist like many Jews and Christians are. They actually became more racist due to European influence. The founding people of Islam contained many Ethiopian people. The prophet Mohammed praised Ethiopian people as being one of the most noble of people.
Racism amongst Arabs is probably from European influence and also due to economic caste systems.
Djehuti, I think you are forgetting that the Delta always experiances a steady series of migration. Even around the pre-dyanstic period there were people from Western Asia and Mesopotamia documented around this area. The city of Buto during the pre-dyanstic period had many settlers living there from Mesopotamia. How much effect they had on the Delta Egyptian I really don't know. Add to that the pictures of people living in the Delta when Narmer united Upper and Lower Egypt.
Basically, Asiatics began to settle around the Delta continously from the Old Kingdom Period untill the Middle Kingdom period. Refer to my post about Asiatics in the Delta. I give supporting references on this claim.
Not only Asiatics but also during AE history when they would raid other people living in the eastern Mediterranean or Western Asia they would take the captives and settle them in areas that was densely populated. One example was the Delta which up to the Old Kingdom was largely just marsh thickets. You basically had foreigners settling forcefully and willingly into parts of the Delta.
Other immigrants came from Minoa and other Asiatics settled around Memphis[Men-nefer] during the Middle Kingdom. During the New Kingdom we even have pictures of Mycnean mercenaries serving with the AE army.
In an ancient Egyptian text,Tales of Sinuhe, you will find an interesting passage about a Delta man not understanding a man living in Aswan[Elephantine] either this was to ethnic,cultural,or linguistical differences between the two regions of Egypt.
You are also forgetting that often the Libyan tribes[who are depicted from a standard dark brown to a white color with reddish-blondish hair] served in the AE military forces. Many were economic immigrants that settled around certain areas of the Delta. Libyans were also captures in warfare and settled around the Delta by the Ramesside pharaohs. The 22-24 dyansty had Libyan origins. Some scholars identify these Libyans with Berbers[Imazigh].
Actually, by the Late Dyanstic Period[25-31st dyansty] there was already a emerging pressence of foreigners hired as mercenaries around the Delta and in parts of Memphis[Men-nefer] Each part of Men-nefer[Memphis] had a ghetto like section for Cairans,Jews,Greeks,Syrians,and Phonecians. These people were invovled in the local culture,and did intermarry with local Egyptians.
Although during the Ptolemaic era Greeks mostly settled in the area of Lower Egypt, there was a Greek pressence in southern Egypt as far as the Aswan border. Mercenary cleurchs[sp] were settled in parts of Middle Egypt. Around Faiyum Ptolemies built cities there and this was a cosmopolitan areas of Greeks,Syrians,and Egyptians. Other cities also existed in Middle Egypt. Around modern day Sohag was Ptolemais.
To sum things up there was alot of migration into Egypt during the Ptolemaic period. Not just Greeks but Jews,Syrians,Carians,Phonecians,and other groups that freely intermarried with Egyptians. Did you even know that Egyptian priest took in Greek babies that were abandoned? They raised them up in the temple,and Egyptian priests refused to engaged in infanticide as the Greeks or Romans did.
So actually the Greco-Roman period probably had a greater effect on altering the Egyptian population than the Arabic invasion.
Posts: 8675 | From: Tukuler al~Takruri as Ardo since OCT2014 | Registered: Feb 2003
| IP: Logged |
Remembering North Sudan, that is a funny place where you will be mistreated if you are Sudanese who is too black, or too white, there the brown race is the master race.
Regards,[/B]
most of the arabs in the northern sudan are black and not the so called brown race.yes many are mixed black arabs,but they are still black if you look at the average black arab in the sudan.you even said they were black yourself,don't change what they are and what you said.make up you mind for once, confused one.
some black arabs in the sudan have some or little mixture, to no mixture as well. scholars have reported on this since the 60's and these are scholars who do field work unlike you.
[This message has been edited by kenndo (edited 15 June 2005).]
Remembering North Sudan, that is a funny place where you will be mistreated if you are Sudanese who is too black, or too white, there the brown race is the master race.
Regards,
ROTFLMAO Yes, and I'm sure you are a part of this brown master race! LOL You mixed-up idiot, there is no such thing as a "brown race" at least if you're talking about Africa! So-called "brown" colored Africans are the same race as the 'black' ones!!!
[This message has been edited by Djehuti (edited 15 June 2005).]
Posts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
| IP: Logged |
Djehuti, I think you are forgetting that the Delta always experiances a steady series of migration. Even around the pre-dyanstic period there were people from Western Asia and Mesopotamia documented around this area. The city of Buto during the pre-dyanstic period had many settlers living there from Mesopotamia. How much effect they had on the Delta Egyptian I really don't know. Add to that the pictures of people living in the Delta when Narmer united Upper and Lower Egypt.
Basically, Asiatics began to settle around the Delta continously from the Old Kingdom Period untill the Middle Kingdom period. Refer to my post about Asiatics in the Delta. I give supporting references on this claim.
Not only Asiatics but also during AE history when they would raid other people living in the eastern Mediterranean or Western Asia they would take the captives and settle them in areas that was densely populated. One example was the Delta which up to the Old Kingdom was largely just marsh thickets. You basically had foreigners settling forcefully and willingly into parts of the Delta.
Other immigrants came from Minoa and other Asiatics settled around Memphis[Men-nefer] during the Middle Kingdom. During the New Kingdom we even have pictures of Mycnean mercenaries serving with the AE army.
In an ancient Egyptian text,Tales of Sinuhe, you will find an interesting passage about a Delta man not understanding a man living in Aswan[Elephantine] either this was to ethnic,cultural,or linguistical differences between the two regions of Egypt.
You are also forgetting that often the Libyan tribes[who are depicted from a standard dark brown to a white color with reddish-blondish hair] served in the AE military forces. Many were economic immigrants that settled around certain areas of the Delta. Libyans were also captures in warfare and settled around the Delta by the Ramesside pharaohs. The 22-24 dyansty had Libyan origins. Some scholars identify these Libyans with Berbers[Imazigh].
Actually, by the Late Dyanstic Period[25-31st dyansty] there was already a emerging pressence of foreigners hired as mercenaries around the Delta and in parts of Memphis[Men-nefer] Each part of Men-nefer[Memphis] had a ghetto like section for Cairans,Jews,Greeks,Syrians,and Phonecians. These people were invovled in the local culture,and did intermarry with local Egyptians.
Although during the Ptolemaic era Greeks mostly settled in the area of Lower Egypt, there was a Greek pressence in southern Egypt as far as the Aswan border. Mercenary cleurchs[sp] were settled in parts of Middle Egypt. Around Faiyum Ptolemies built cities there and this was a cosmopolitan areas of Greeks,Syrians,and Egyptians. Other cities also existed in Middle Egypt. Around modern day Sohag was Ptolemais.
To sum things up there was alot of migration into Egypt during the Ptolemaic period. Not just Greeks but Jews,Syrians,Carians,Phonecians,and other groups that freely intermarried with Egyptians. Did you even know that Egyptian priest took in Greek babies that were abandoned? They raised them up in the temple,and Egyptian priests refused to engaged in infanticide as the Greeks or Romans did.
So actually the Greco-Roman period probably had a greater effect on altering the Egyptian population than the Arabic invasion.
This does bring up the question of the infantcide of Jews that brought about the slave revolts that led to the Exodus. When did Egypt first become ruled by foreigners? According to the story of Moses (folklore or not) the new Pharoah enslaved the Jews where as the previous Pharoah was very friendly. Is it possible that Egypt was conquered by a foreign nation that practiced slavery and infantcide? This might explain why Moses was sparred by an Egyptian Princess if she abhored the practice that was of foreign influence.
The first time that foreigners got control over Egypt was during the Hykos invasion. You have another period after Dyansty 6 called the First Intermediate period where it was possible that foreigners might have ruled,but not for a very long period.
Posts: 8675 | From: Tukuler al~Takruri as Ardo since OCT2014 | Registered: Feb 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: [b]ROTFLMAO Yes, and I'm sure you are a part of this brown master race! LOL You mixed-up idiot, there is no such thing as a "brown race" at least if you're talking about Africa! So-called "brown" colored Africans are the same race as the 'black' ones!!![/B]
the only brown race i could think of in africa is alot of the arabs and berbers and some folks in certain groups.you know the ones that do not look white or black. sadat to me looks black.
amr1 is confused,a brown race person would be most of those folks from india,modern southwest asia,certain latino groups,etc etc. most early egyptians did not look like those folks.
amr1 needs to get the facts,wait we gave to him but it just goes from one ear to the next.
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90% of Sudanese are blacks, but Nubian North Sudanese who are the ruling elite, they are about 20 million 50% of the population they are arbized , may be mix with few Arab tribes.
I don't belong to them, I belong to 2 million Sudanese who are Egyptians originally, we are only 5% of Sudan, some of us who are very light brown are called white in Sudan. We are certainly not white at all but like Collin Powell.
There is also 5% bedouin arabs.
The Beja, nubians , not arabized and they are called browns in Sudan, 5% of the population.
Than there is about 8 million NON nubians,NON ARABIZED in the central, and parts of the west, about 15% of Sudan. Those are considered blacker than the first elite group.
Than the south, they are the blackest, and not arabized and not nubians.
The first time that foreigners got control over Egypt was during the Hykos invasion. You have another period after Dyansty 6 called the First Intermediate period where it was possible that foreigners might have ruled,but not for a very long period.
Interesting, what changes did the Hysoks bring? What I have always thought was rather curious about the story of Moses was that he was accepted as an Egyptian. This is strange since during the time of Abraham it is clear that the Egyptians were not like the Asiatics at all. There seems to be a transitional time where Asiatics became assimilated into Egypt and changed the apparent racial classification of what it was to be Egyptian. This must have been occurring for for several generations.
quote:Originally posted by AMR1: 90% of Sudanese are blacks, but Nubian North Sudanese who are the ruling elite, they are about 20 million 50% of the population they are arbized , may be mix with few Arab tribes.
I don't belong to them, I belong to 2 million Sudanese who are Egyptians originally, we are only 5% of Sudan, some of us who are very light brown are called white in Sudan. We are certainly not white at all but like Collin Powell.
There is also 5% bedouin arabs.
The Beja, nubians , not arabized and they are called browns in Sudan, 5% of the population.
Than there is about 8 million NON nubians,NON ARABIZED in the central, and parts of the west, about 15% of Sudan. Those are considered blacker than the first elite group.
Than the south, they are the blackest, and not arabized and not nubians.
the arabs are about 39% of sudan or less now because of more black africans are coming back because of the peace in the south. if they are less than 39% and sudan has a population of over 42 million by now and i have not count the ones coming back,than that means that the arabs are around 15.5 million,besides that was the number i saw on a website before and the the person from the sudan mission in newyork told me that last year.
nubians are black, remember?they are darker on average than most black americans.look it up,nubians belong to the black race even the mixed ones.there is no such thing as a brown race nubian.you are one of the only fools to say nubians are not black.everybody in the world knows they are black even the racist.only a few nuts like you say otherwise and you are not even in the mainstream of the racist or self haters on that issue only a few nubians are half of something in the sudan others have some form of mixture ,but most are mostly unmixed africans that live near the blue nile and other areas including nubia and outside in other african states and many of them are arabized but are still nubian unlike the black arabs in the sudan .
one scholar told me most of them do not have any arab background.you could play around egypt's history but you leave nubia alone do you hear ME?THEIR race is not up for debate like egypt.the nubians are clearly black so don't go there,i am warning you.
even egypt is should be a not a debate,but nubia is not at all a debate as far as i am concern and for the rest of the folks in this forum.even the one who disagree about egypt would clearly say the nubians past and present are black africans.they are nilo-saharan folks or sudanic and most married other nubians,even more so in the past so there is no way they are a mixed race group.roman and other scholars clearly state that most were dark skin,flat noses and kinky hair and this was around late ancient times,let's not forget new nubians called the noba came from the southwest,so there is no way they were mixed even in medieval times except for most in lower nubia and a few in late medieval times in upper nubia.southern nubia remain unmixed in medieval times and only a few intermarried in early modern times in southern nubia study history for once please because you are sounding more and more foolish by the day.
the beja are not brown folks.they are more like the coloureds of south africa.some beja are clearly black and some are clearly mixed. stop the crap.
[This message has been edited by kenndo (edited 15 June 2005).]
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i think hes talking about the so called arabs in sudan Those are the nubians.
Posts: 188 | From: canton,ma,united states | Registered: May 2005
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quote:Originally posted by bandon19: i think hes talking about the so called arabs in sudan Those are the nubians.
well these former nubians called themselves arabs now,the nubians are still nubians and the arabized nubians are still nubians too today.
the arabs in the sudan do not called themselves nubians so amr1 should not either. the only thing nubian now about most of the arabs in the sudan is that there great great great grandparents were nubians and most are black but do not want to be called nubians.nubians in the sudan are fighting for thier rights to just like thier southern and western brothers in the sudan and are pround to be called african unlike many of the arabs.
the mixed raced mexicans as well do not have the right to say they are mayan etc because they are called latinos and just like most arabs inthe sudan,the latinos do not get along well with the mayan folks in there own state.what i am trying to say is both arabs and latino mexicans can't have it both ways.
quote:Please relax with calling people mullatos. This is getting rather trite
What do you call a fella whose insecurity is obvious to naked eyes, yet tries desperately to be a discerning one. A suddenly turned wanna-be expert of Somali people, part-time Korean with fond for "black" culture. His oft-repeated "mullato" word tells as much about his insecurity than about others.If his thinking everybody whose thinking is contrary to what he believes is either Arab or "mullato," God help him. Oh, wait, he was a hapless atheist.
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As for the Nubians, there are three main groups each speaking their own dialect:
the Kanuzi (northern Nubians) live mainly in southern Upper Egypt mostly around Aswan but further south to the Sudanese border. These are probably the most mixed with foreigners, but especially Arabs.
the Mahas (central Nubians) live in Northern Sudan mainly from the second to the third Nile cataract.
lastly, the Danagla (southern Nubians) they live past the third cataract to the vicinity of Dongola.
All these groups speak their form Nubian language and all preserve Nubian customs in one way or another. I assume the Arabization is greater in the urban areas.
By the way, I said before that Atheist is half white so I find his use of mulatto all the time to be strange, especially with reference to burritos! ...
[This message has been edited by Djehuti (edited 15 June 2005).]
Posts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Waryaa: What do you call a fella whose insecurity is obvious to naked eyes, yet tries desperately to be a discerning one. A suddenly turned wanna-be expert of Somali people, part-time Korean with fond for "black" culture. His oft-repeated "mullato" word tells as much about his insecurity than about others.If his thinking everybody whose thinking is contrary to what he believes is either Arab or "mullato," God help him. Oh, wait, he was a hapless atheist.
Yeah right how cute you would write all this just for me. Obviously I have got under your skin. Let me guess I'm half white and half Asia. The only part I refuse is the white part of my heritage in you "mulattos" (no I don't call everyone mulattos; now tell me who is insecure ) dream every day and literally masturbate to be part of. That makes me opposite of insecure. Oh I'm soooooo sorry for calling you mulattos even though it’s true; I must have deeply hurt you feeling. Tsk Tsk Tsk.. Look at you. At least I don't look into the mirror ever day and burst out in tears; despite all the prayers, a mixed individual not a bleach white one. Call me mulatto, call me mixed, call me an Asian or African. It doesn’t bother me one bit. I’m proud unlike you who have trouble sleeping when you are referred as something black. Oh by the way I don’t need to be a Somali to know more about them than you, at least I know they are black and from Africa (ouch)
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Let's not resort to childish spats and stick to the topic, shall we?...
Posts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
You are on DJ, my good friend! Anyway no offense about the burrito comments. When I say those jokes I don’t have any mean intention to it. (I'll try to tone it down hehehe) I'm still reading all the posts especially the useful ones so don't worry.
[This message has been edited by Atheist (edited 15 June 2005).]
Djehuti, during the Ottoman period many Ottoman troops that came from Hungary,the Balkans,and other regions settled in parts of Aswan to Lower Nubia. Before this even there was garrison units of Ptolemic and Roman troops that controlled the border with Lower Nubia and Egypt.
During the Islamic period Arabs were settled in Aswan and eventually bedouin Arabs started mixing with Nubian females. Both the Beja people and Nubians have a matrilineal desent. Thus the Arabs intermarried with the Lower Nubians and eventually this lead to asort of Arabization.
I think you forgot about the Fadijay[sp] Nubians that live in Lower Nubia. This is also a dialect of the Nubian language still spoken.
Posts: 8675 | From: Tukuler al~Takruri as Ardo since OCT2014 | Registered: Feb 2003
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Djehuti, during the Ottoman period many Ottoman troops that came from Hungary,the Balkans,and other regions settled in parts of Aswan to Lower Nubia. Before this even there was garrison units of Ptolemic and Roman troops that controlled the border with Lower Nubia and Egypt.
During the Islamic period Arabs were settled in Aswan and eventually bedouin Arabs started mixing with Nubian females. Both the Beja people and Nubians have a matrilineal desent. Thus the Arabs intermarried with the Lower Nubians and eventually this lead to asort of Arabization.
I think you forgot about the Fadijay[sp] Nubians that live in Lower Nubia. This is also a dialect of the Nubian language still spoken.
This explains why the Kanuzi (northern Nubians) appear to be the most mixed. Some I've seen are really light-skinned.
Posts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
these are the nubian groups mostly in the sudan.8 groups
midob sukkot kenzi donogla hill nubians
the nubians who are arabized in the sudan but are still nubians and different from the more extreme arabized nubians who do not consider themselves nubian
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Exactly where the heck did you get this info from?!! Yes there was a great wheather change 10000 years ago, in which North Africa became dry and began turning into the Sahara Desert we know now, but the only migrations into the Nile Valley were by Africans in the surrounding adjacent areas, not peoples from the Near-East!! The old "Dynastic Race Theory" that you keep trying to revive is an old corpse that is almost dust! This has become common fact now in Egyptian history and every Egyptologist today smirks at that notion, especially Hawass!!
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