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Forgive me if I am late to the party...And note this thread was NOT made in anyway to make European people feel inferior, but to solve this mystery on how the modern European replaced the 'Ancient European' population and where exactly did the current European population could have came from.
So again where exactly did these people come from?
According to this article, modern day European genetic history starts at 4,500 B.C.
[B}Europeans as a people are younger than we thought, a new study suggests.[/B]
DNA recovered from ancient skeletons reveals that the genetic makeup of modern Europe was established around 4,500 B.C. in the mid-Neolithic—or 6,500 years ago—and not by the first farmers who arrived in the area around 7,500 years ago or by earlier hunter-gatherer groups. (Read about Europe's oldest known town.)
"The genetics show that something around that point caused the genetic signatures of previous populations to disappear," said Alan Cooper, director of the Australian Centre for Ancient DNA at the University of Adelaide, where the research was performed.
"However, we don't know what happened or why, and [the mid-Neolithic] has not been previously identified as [a time] of major change," he said.
Furthermore, the origins of the mid-Neolithic populations that did form the basis of modern Europe are also unknown.
"This population moves in around 4,000 to 5,000 [B.C.], but where it came from remains a mystery, as we can't see anything like it in the areas surrounding Europe," Cooper said.
The surprising findings are part of a new study, published in this week's issue of the journal Nature Communications, that provides the first detailed genetic history of modern Europe.
The study shows that "relatively recent migrations seem to have had a significant genetic impact on the population of Central Europe," said study co-author Spencer Wells, who leads National Geographic's Genographic Project. (Read about Europe's "Wild Men" in National Geographic magazine.)
Genetic Signature
In the study, Cooper and his colleagues extracted mitochondrial DNA—which children inherit only from their mothers—from the teeth and bones of 39 skeletons found in central Germany. The skeletons ranged in age from about 7,500 to 2,500 years old.
The team focused on a group of closely related mitochondrial lineages—mutations in mitochondrial DNA that are similar to one another—known as haplogroup H, which is carried by up to 45 percent of modern Europeans.
Cooper and his colleagues focused on haplogroup H because previous studies have indicated the mutations might have been present in Europeans' genetic makeup for several thousand years.
It's unclear how this haplogroup became dominant in Europe. Some scientists have proposed that it spread across the continent following a population boom after the end of the last ice age about 12,000 years ago.
But the new data paint a different picture of the genetic foundation of modern Europe: Rather than a single or a few migration events, Europe was occupied several times, in waves, by different groups, from different directions and at different times.
The first modern humans to reach Europe arrived from Africa 35,000 to 40,000 years ago. By about 30,000 years ago, they were widespread throughout the area while their close cousins, the Neanderthals, disappeared. Hardly any of these early hunter-gatherers carried the H haplogroup in their DNA.
About 7,500 years ago during the early Neolithic period, another wave of humans expanded into Europe, this time from the Middle East. They carried in their genes a variant of the H haplogroup, and in their minds knowledge of how to grow and raise crops. (Related: "Egypt's Earliest Farming Village Found.")
Archeologists call these first Central European farmers the linear pottery culture (LBK)—so named because their pottery often had linear decorations.
The genetic evidence shows that the appearance of the LBK farmers and their unique H haplogroups coincided with a dramatic reduction of the U haplogroup—the dominant haplogroup among the hunter-gatherers living in Europe at that time.
Farmers Move In
The findings settle a longstanding debate among archaeologists, said Wells, who is also a National Geographic explorer-in-residence.
Archaeology alone can't determine whether cultural movements—such as a new style of pottery or, in this case, farming—were accompanied by the movements of people, Wells said in an email.
"In this study we show that changes in the European archaeological record are accompanied by genetic changes, suggesting that cultural shifts were accompanied by the migration of people and their DNA."
The LBK group and its descendants were very successful and spread quickly across Europe. "They became the first pan-European culture, if you like," Cooper said.
Given their success, it would be natural to assume that members of the LBK culture were significant genetic ancestors of many modern Europeans.[/B}
But the team's genetic analysis revealed a surprise: About 6,500 years ago in the mid-Neolithic, [B]the LBK culture was itself displaced. Their haplogroup H types suddenly became very rare, and they were subsequently replaced by populations bearing a different set of haplogroup H variations.
Mysterious Turnover
The details of this "genetic turnover" event are murky. Scientists don't know what prompted it, or even where the new colonizers came from.
"The extent or nature of this genetic turnover are not clear, and we don't know how widespread it is," Cooper said.
If this turnover were widespread, it could have been prompted by climate change or disease, he said.
"All we know is that the descendants of the LBK farmers disappeared from Central Europe about 4,500 [B.C.], clearing the way for the rise of populations from elsewhere, with their own unique H signatures."
Peter Bogucki, an archeologist at Princeton University who has studied early farming societies in Europe, called the finding "really interesting" and noted the timing of the genetic turnover is curious.
"At the end of the fifth millennium—[about] 4,000 B.C.—there are a lot of changes in the archeological record," said Bogucki, who was not involved in the study.
For example, the long houses that LBK farmers and their descendants favored became less common. Also, the settlement patterns of people living in Central Europe began changing, as did their stone tools.
"There are major transformations during this time that haven't really been all that well explained in interior Central Europe," Bogucki said.
"It looks like the whole system of agricultural settlement that got established with the LBK ran its course through the fifth millennium and something caused people to change."
Of Unknown Origins
Bogucki agrees that climate change might have been a trigger for the change in Europe's genetic makeup, but he thinks it was only a factor and not the sole cause.
One thing that is clear from the genetic data is that nearly half of modern Europeans can trace their origins back to this mysterious group.
"About [4,500 B.C.], you start seeing a diversity and composition of genetic signatures that are beginning to look like modern [Central] Europe," Cooper said. "This composition is then modified by subsequent cultures moving in, but it's the first point at which you see something like the modern European genetic makeup in place."
Whatever prompted the replacement of genetic signatures from the first pan-European culture, Cooper is clearly intrigued. "Something major happened," he said in a statement, "and the hunt is now on to find out what that was."
Correction: The original version of this article stated that the genetic makeup of modern Europeans emerged 4,500 years ago. The text has been updated to reflect the correct timing as 4,500 B.C., or 6,500 years ago.
The study did find subtle regional variations. For reasons still unclear, Italians and Spaniards appear to be less closely related than most Europeans to people elsewhere on the continent.
We already know Europe is not technically a continent, but is really a part of Asia, hence 'Eurasia'. Some posters on here suggest that modern Europeans may have migrated from central Asia and into Europe, but I don't know about that. Some even said that modern day Europeans are a mic between African and Asia, but I doubt that.
We all know the humans that entered Europe 40-30k years ago resembled Africans, but that population has then since disappeared.
So what are you guys thoughts? What are the true origins of modern day Europeans?
Posts: 1135 | From: Top secret | Registered: Jun 2012
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The first Europeans came from central Asia across Russia to Northern Europe around 35,000 years ago. -hunter gatherers. Before Central Asia the were from the Middle East before that Africa. Along the way, over many thousands of years evolutionary changes are occuring, mutations that lead to adaptations to the new colder less sunny environments. If you compare skulls from 35,000 years ago the skulls from 25.000 years ago look a little different and so on.
About 20,000 years ago during the last ice age (LGM) much of Europe became depopulated and people went into Southern Europe, Spain, Italy, Turkey
As the above article states 7,500 years ago people from the Turkish region went into Central Europe. (before being in the Turkish region they had come from the Middle East, it all leads back there and ultimatley to Africa) Then 3000 years later which is 4,500 years ago Europeans who had taken refuge from the ice age in the warmer Spain region (Iberia) went into Central Europe and replaced these people who had migrated there 7,500 years ago. So according to this article people from Iberia (incl Spain) are who the modern Europeans came from and they were probably in Iberia because they had been in Northern and Central Europe but it became too cold to live there.
Spain later became Christian officially 313 AD In 715 AD (1,300 years ago) they were taken over by the Arabs by the Umayyads based in Damascus Syria who used an army comprised of Islamicized berbers from Africa and Arabs. They were still a minority but took over the region for 600 years including a small part of Italy. Some intermarried with the local Spainards and were called Moriscos. So some of this is reflected in the genetic make-up modern Spainards and Italians.
Posts: 42930 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: The first Europeans came from central Asia across Russia to Northern Europe around 35,000 years ago. -hunter gatherers. Before Central Asia the were from the Middle East before that Africa. Along the way, over many thousands of years evolutionary changes are occuring, mutations that lead to adaptations to the new colder less sunny environments.
About 20,000 years ago during the last ice age (LGM) much of Europe became depopulated and people went into Southern Europe, Spain, Italy Turkey
As the above article states 7,500 years ago people from the Turkish region went into Central Europe. Before being in the Turkish region they had come from the Middle East, it all leads back there and ultimatley to Africa Then 3000 years later which is 4,500 years ago Europeans who had taken refuge from the ice age in the warmer Spain region (Iberia) went into Central Europe and replaced these people who had migrated there 7,500 years ago. So according to this article people from Iberia (incl Spain) are who the modern Europeans came from and they were probably in Iberia because they had been in Northern and Central Europe but it became too cold to live there.
Spain later became Christian They were later taken over by the Arabs 1,300 years ago who used armies comprised of Islamicized berbers from Africa and Arabs. They were still a minority but took over the region for 600 years including part of Italy. Some intermarried with the local Spainards and were called Moriscos. So some of this is reflected in the genetic make-up modern Spainards and Italians.
Good post. The article also suggest that their were multiple waves of population that entered Europe throughout the prehistoric times from different locations.
Posts: 1135 | From: Top secret | Registered: Jun 2012
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LOL This topic as well as its article was posted by lioness recently, and before that here, and before and before.
Frankly, I find it ironic as well as hilarious that the Western dominated academia that has postulated and even arrogantly spoke of the origins of other 'races' or populations are still debating their own origins.
Suffice to say, the genetic origins of the European subcontinent are unsurprisingly similar to that of the Indian subcontinent wherein there was a cul-de-sac affect of multiple waves of human migrations from different entry points that result in 'modern Europeans'.
Posts: 26252 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: LOL This topic as well as its article was posted by lioness recently, and before that here, and before and before.
Frankly, I find it ironic as well as hilarious that the Western dominated academia that has postulated and even arrogantly spoke of the origins of other 'races' or populations are still debating their own origins.
Suffice to say, the genetic origins of the European subcontinent are unsurprisingly similar to that of the Indian subcontinent wherein there was a cul-de-sac affect of multiple waves of human migrations from different entry points that result in 'modern Europeans'.
Mary, what about the genetic origins of the albinos filipeenoos like yourself? Can you elucidate?
Posts: 7419 | From: North America | Registered: Mar 2009
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^ That you continue to include me in your sexual fantasies by calling me "Mary" is one thing, but now you accuse me of being an albino when I'm not even light-skinned let alone pale.
Posts: 26252 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: ^ That you continue to include me in your sexual fantasies by calling me "Mary" is one thing, but now you accuse me of being an albino when I'm not even light-skinned let alone pale.
you missed the question. Never mind... Posts: 7419 | From: North America | Registered: Mar 2009
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^ Your question regarding albinos was nonsensical to begin with and as such has no answer.
Posts: 26252 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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^ I mind him the same way I do any small-minded child-- with humor. Posts: 26252 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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The more one reads the more I realize that the entire Western Civilization is built on a lie. And they continue to lie to themselves and each other….and to the world. And this lie needs to continue. I am not sure if that is a strength or weakness. Time will tell. But there are signs the infrastructure is already crumbling. The questions is - were there any other civilization built on such a magnitude of lies and delusional behavior. It has gotten them so far up to this point.
Many foresee India and China having dominating economies and world presence within the next fifty years. Africa is not too far behind…maybe 75years. With that said 300years of European domination…is that the best mankind have ever seen? Definitely in terms of longetivity, sustainability and the collective. We will probably leave the planet on their watch that is great achievement. But the foundation was laid 1000s of years before from other cultures. All great economies and civilization depends cheap labor or a willing and able workforce. ie the collective. Europe got there on the backs of the lands, colonies and peoples it subjugated.
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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