"We come from the foothills of the mountain of the moon, where God...HAPI...dwells"

all of the barbarians and marauders of the northeast told you who the egyptians were.....distinction was made between Egyptians and other africans by neither they, nor those who lived outside africa....."UNTIL THE ADVENT OF EGYPTOLOGY"-strangely coincident with the triangle slave trade.....so of course you wouldn't expect a 17th,18th,19th,or 20th century egyptologist to meet the concept of "black egypt" with open arms.....in this age of colonization and slavery you would expect exactly the response we hear time and time again on this board:
you afrocentrists are just emotional and angry at the fact that your race has never created anything significant.....LOL
On the other hand they will(they by the way -are those who assume egypt was somehow caucasian)tell you that race doesn't exist and that it is a social construct - except when speaking about anything significant; like the history of a civilization which lived and thrived for 3 thousand years...

but what do you expect from the same group of academicians...leaders...and rulers.... who created "europe" out of western asia.....of course they would remove egypt from africa and african influence......

we often forget that most of the people making arguments about egypt belonging not to Africa but to Europe and eurasians, come from a place which had no written language until the romans arrived and even the romans and greeks were not functioning in the world until Egypt was at its weakest point in 3thousand years.........and what were they best at once they began to function (maybe not the greeks although they were good at it as well): THEY WERE BEST AT WAR dog eat dog.....their love for learning was minimal at best (to this day) hence the burning of thousands of years of knowledge at alexandria.........
It has been suggested on several occasions that egyptians constantly fought with the nubians.. So what.. The germans tried to destroy all of europe...most of the people they attempted to wipe out were equally as devoid of melanin as they.

quote:

---

Originally posted by ausar:

Is this going to be a post and run senerio? Are you going to stay and debate your point?

---

What is really debatable about the origins of ancient egypt...egypt was a crossroads...it would not nor could not have ever been completely homgeneous. But, to the extent that France is European - so Egypt is African... If the United states had a black president or a black secretary of state you would not call it a black country....
The physical evidence is overwhelming when looked at chronologically.

the fewer assumptions an explanation of
a phenomenon depends on, the better it is..this is the definition of occams razor.... the negation suggests, that an arbitrary complex explaination is just as good as the simplest one.....for example: God and his cat created a robot called Sparky who built the universe from parts bought from a shop in another dimension...

I agree with what you state. Egypt was a African civlization with a African based culture. Most people in the academic world have embraced this.

During the pre-dyanstic there was a population of the Nile Valley within both the Nile Valley itself,Horn of Africa,and the then fertile Sahara. The Delta and Lower Egypt I am not so sure about. Very few studies have been on this area because its below sea level and material decomposes very easily.

Anyway, here is pretty much what modern Egyptologist say about the ancient Egyptians:

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Parthenon/9507/c-wh1-ane-yurco.htm
[the following is a nice essay written by Egyptologist Frank J Yurco on this issue]

From: pap...@nwu.edu (peter piccione)
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 1995 02:21:53 -0600
Subject: Re: Egyptian Ethnicity [long]

There is no doubt that the subject of the ethnicity of the ancient
Egyptians=
=20
is one
that is highly charged. Emotions tend to run high regarding this
topic. A=
=20
significant
exception are those purely scientific studies written by human
biologists=
and
anthropologists studying the human remains from Egypt and Nubia. =20
Thankfully, the
cool light of reason still prevails in that area of endeavor, and it
is=20
there that the
debate on Egyptian ethnicities should be carried out. Actually, there
isn't=
=20
much of a
debate in those circles. It's very clear that, in general, the
Egyptians=20
and Nubians
were fairly heterogenous folk physically related to each other early
in=20
their history.

Because such studies on the physical ethnology of the Egyptians and
Nubians=
=20
often
pertain to paleobiology and paleopathology, I have been including
these in=
my
BIBLIOGRAPHICAL DATABASE OF ANCIENT EGYPTIAN MEDICINE AND
MEDICAL PRACTICE. Currrently, I have 153 ethnological/biological
studies
catalogued, of which 51 are from 1945 and later. I use 1945 as a=20
watershed-date in
this topic, since it marks the date of el-Batrawi's first of two
landmark=20
studies of
Egyptian and Nubian crania, which (as I interpret it) marks the
beginning of=
=20
the end
of the dynastic race theory (despite holdouts such as Derry and
Emory). In=
=20
addition,
the work of the two Berry's and Evgen Strouhal cannot be overestimated
for
understanding this subject.

With these thoughts in mind, I have prepared and included here a
printout of=
=20
these
studies. Most of these should be used as a basis for understanding
Egyptian=
and
Nubian ethnology and racial affinities. Many of these are primary
research=
=20
studies;
others are anthropological syntheses. Admittedly, a few deal more
with=
cultural
issues rather than physical evidence. I _especially_ recommend the
works of=
=20
Brace
et al. 1993 and Ortiz de Montellano 1993 as good examples of
confronting=
faulty
methodologies for ascertaining Egyptian ethnicity.

Please keep in mind that this bibliography is nowhere near complete,
nor do=
=20
I claim
any measure of completeness for it. If anyone wants to receive the
listing=
=20
of the 102
pre-1945 studies, I will gladly transmit this off-list. Those works
pertain=
=20
mostly to
notions of dynastic race, "pure race"-theory, and racial diffusion (a
la G.=
=20
Elliot Smith
et al.).

Finally, let it be said that the ancient Egyptians were not white=20
Caucasians, nor were
they Indo-Aryans. They were African, primarily a brown race, although
fair=
=20
skinned
and leptorhine in the north, black skinned and platyrhine in the
south, and=
=20
various
shades in the middle. They manifested all the physical differences
you=20
would expect
in so large a continent as Africa. Trigger (see below) uses the
term=20
"Nilotic" to
refer to their heterogenous character. When all is said and done,
though,=
=20
this whole
question of Egyptian racial identity says more about us today than it
does=
=20
about the
ancient Egyptians.
http://oi.uchicago.edu/OI/ANE/ANE-DIGEST/V02/v02.n077

Two mainstream books I recommend on this issue is:

Egypt in Africa by Theodore Celenko

Ancient Egypt in Africa edited by David O'Connor