posted
I was researching and googling things on prognathism, I know what it is but unforutunatly i couldnt find a website with detailed information about prognathism/race.
Can you guys please help me? Do you guys know a very good website that explains race/Prognathism/Orthoganism in detail with measurements and everything. ALSO WITH PICTURES CHARTS ....etc
quote:Originally posted by Yom3: I was researching and googling things on prognathism, I know what it is but unforutunatly i couldnt find a website with detailed information about prognathism/race.
I am not sure that this surprises me, given that the notion of human "races" is scientifically bankrupt, unless of course, you care to elaborate on why it isn't so.
Having acknowledged that you know what prognathism is, you probably wouldn't find it difficult to realize that the set of variables upon which this phenomenon mathematically depends on, can vary from individual to individual. For instance, in the traditional method of applying the sella-nasion plane, i.e. which provides a basis for angular measurements of the relevant maxillar and mandibular components of the cranium, the relative positioning or distance of the sella with respect to the nasion and vice versa, isn't something expected to show consistency for all individuals. Nevetheless, physical anthropologists measure their findings against what are proclaimed to represent the norms for these angular measurements, which would thereby assist them in characterizing a cranium, i.e. minus soft parts, as prognathus or orthoganus. Having made note of this basic idea of the science at hand, it may well be worth pointing out that, just as the facial characteristic of a high or low nasal-bridge is not a real or scientific signifier of "race" [a term which by default implicates genetic transfer as an explanation for phenotypic similarities as opposed to happenstance, i.e. a product of random parallel evolution], nor is prognathism a scientific reality of such. Prognathism can be found in diverse populations, which may or may not be genetically close from both a temporal and a spatial standpoint. We can speak of frequencies of such traits in populations, and extrapolate from there, i.e. in ASSOCIATION with other scientific findings such as those in the disciplines of molecular genetics and archeology. The mere occurrence of "prognathism" in diverse populations alone, as is the case with pretty much any other phenotype, is not enough to suggest gene flow or genetic closeness and any subsequent implication with regards to setting up a qualifier of human "races", which as many of us have by now become acquainted with, is scientifically undefined.
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quote:Originally posted by Yom3: I was researching and googling things on prognathism, I know what it is but unforutunatly i couldnt find a website with detailed information about prognathism/race.
Can you guys please help me? Do you guys know a very good website that explains race/Prognathism/Orthoganism in detail with measurements and everything. ALSO WITH PICTURES CHARTS ....etc
Thanks
Yom3, I got your PM from earlier, which I'll respond to, but if you're going to use this account also for posting, can you please change your name to something less similar to mine?
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posted
^^LOL Yeah, so Yom3 is the successor of Yomclone (Yom2)?
But to the topic at hand, Supercar is right. Cranio-facial morphology is perhaps the phenotypic trait with the greatest variability. Even within a small population there are degrees of differences in things like angular measurements of maxillary and mandible. Prognathism while associated with blacks is also found among non-black populations of Asia from South Asia (India) to East and Southeast Asia and even in the Americas to a certain extent. Prognathism while not as common can still be found among 'white' peoples of Europe!
Posts: 26252 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
Can someone please help? I really don't care if it is right or who has it, I just want a website with pictures and charts explaining prognathism in alot of detail or anything like that please.
Posts: 7 | Registered: Sep 2006
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posted
^^Well sor-ry! Ask Myra if she can help. She is the source finding expert around here.
Posts: 26252 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
My suggestion to you Yom3, is that you might want to familiarize yourself with angular cranial constructs like SNA, SNB, ANB and have a basic idea of the meaning of other such basic terms first, and then, you'll realize that you should be able to google up something informative on "prognathism" or "orthoganism".
-------------------- Truth - a liar penetrating device! Posts: 5964 | Registered: Jan 2005
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posted
And horror of horrors for orthodox European anthropologists the Ancient Egyptians were also prognathous. Given that "facial angles" are seen as being closely associated with what one might call a "prognathism index", those who are sceptical might just want to check to see how many of the Ancient Egyptian mural profiles are less than 90 degrees, tracing an imaginary angle from top of the forehead down to the chin as base and extend that horizontally to the neck. Then compare with Greek and Roman profiles--but just don't confuse the Greco-Egyptian and Roman Egyptian profiles in Egyptian poses and coiffure with the those of Ancient Kmt.
Posts: 5492 | Registered: Nov 2004
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posted
^^Correct, Lamin. This is a fact that anthropologists who've studied Egyptian remains have been desperately trying to "get around". Which is why there have been theories proposed in the past that prognathism in Egyptians is a trait resulted from "primitive negroid" ancestors with whom caucasians bred with to produce the "dynastic race".
Of course the "dynastic race" and "Hamitic" theories have all been refuted as they were based on bankrupt 'kacazoid' science anyway.
Posts: 26252 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by lamin: And horror of horrors for orthodox European anthropologists the Ancient Egyptians were also prognathous. Given that "facial angles" are seen as being closely associated with what one might call a "prognathism index", those who are sceptical might just want to check to see how many of the Ancient Egyptian mural profiles are less than 90 degrees, tracing an imaginary angle from top of the forehead down to the chin as base and extend that horizontally to the neck. Then compare with Greek and Roman profiles--but just don't confuse the Greco-Egyptian and Roman Egyptian profiles in Egyptian poses and coiffure with the those of Ancient Kmt.
Lol. Indeed, it does appear that the mere mention of "Africans", particularly "black African", draws excruciating scrutiny of skeletal remains of whom are perceived to be the bearers of ancient high social complex, i.e. to ensure that they really were Africans. One almost rarely sees such scrutiny being done on post-Neolithic Holocene ancient southern European or southwest Asian remains, to double check if they really were the inhabitants of those regions, even though genetics and archeology clearly indicate that these regions were just as open to foreign influx as the Nile Valley coastal and Delta region.
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quote:Originally posted by Supercar: My suggestion to you Yom3, is that you might want to familiarize yourself with angular cranial constructs like SNA, SNB, ANB and have a basic idea of the meaning of other such basic terms first, and then, you'll realize that you should be able to google up something informative on "prognathism" or "orthoganism".
Any other words Posts: 234 | Registered: Sep 2006
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Well, if you understand the meanings of those basic terms, then how exactly are you having trouble getting information about prognathism or orthoganism on the internet?
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: ^^Well sor-ry! Ask Myra if she can help. She is the source finding expert around here.
We are having computer problems at work. Seems I lost my connection to the university's academic subscribe websites. I have not been able to access Wiley, Blackwell or JSTOR for a couple of weeks now. They are still working on the problem.
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Yeah, so Yom3 is the successor of Yomclone (Yom2)?![[Confused]](confused.gif)
I really don't care if it is right or who has it, I just want a website with pictures and charts explaining prognathism in alot of detail or anything like that please.
![[Frown]](frown.gif)
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