Charlie, I wish you would not leave. You are a nice debater,and you bring out many interesting points. Your posts are appreciated here. Please post at TheNileValley if you are no longer going to post here.

quote:

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Originally posted by Charlie_Bass:
I've shared some great information and had some good debates here, but I have to leave. Arguing with Evil Euro and now arguing over a measely E3b1 lineage[alpha cluster] have finally done me in. I never thought that a big deal would be made out of that lineage simply because a mutation of it exists in Europe as if thats suppose to be something special to rejoice about. Conversely, white racists and Eurocentrists have used non-African lineages in Africans to explain away and downplay the achievements of native Africans[Middle eastern mixture in Ethiopia/Aksum for example]. Leave to Europe whats European and to Africa whats African. Beyond this there's nothing else to discuss here except going around in circles about what has already been spelled out in published data from population geneticists and anthropologists. I'll be posting at the Nile Valley forum from time to time but definitely not here anymore.

Peace!

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Charlie I agree with you that this isn't the best forum for serious minded folks.

I won't even bother to reiterate the obvious reasons why, and the facts on why nothing can or ever will be done about it.

quote:

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Originally posted by Charlie_Bass:

Arguing with Evil Euro and now arguing over a measely E3b1 lineage[alpha cluster] have finally done me in. I never thought that a big deal would be made out of that lineage simply because a mutation of it exists in Europe as if thats suppose to be something special to rejoice about.

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Thought Writes:

Charlie, I agree that you have added much value to this discourse. However, the issue has ALLWAYS been that genetic lineages such as E3b1 DELTA spread from Black Africa to Europe where it ***LATER*** derived into E3b1 alpha which is indeed European specific. The DELTA cluster enables us to trace the spread of an BLACK AFRICAN DERIVED and BLACK AFRICAN SPECIFIC linage along with technological transmitions to Europeans. Furthermore it has been established that BOTH terms Sub-Saharan and Black African have social meaning. We chose Black African because it does not sugar-coat the truth and because it relates to the people among whom the lineage derived NOT some arbitrary land mass.

quote:

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Originally posted by Thought2:
Thought Writes:

Charlie, I agree that you have added much value to this discourse. However, the issue has ALLWAYS been that genetic lineages such as E3b1 DELTA spread from Black Africa to Europe where it ***LATER*** derived into E3b1 alpha which is indeed European specific. The DELTA cluster enables us to trace the spread of an BLACK AFRICAN DERIVED and BLACK AFRICAN SPECIFIC linage along with technological transmitions to Europeans. Furthermore it has been established that BOTH terms Sub-Saharan and Black African have social meaning. We chose Black African because it does not sugar-coat the truth and because it relates to the people among whom the lineage derived NOT some arbitrary land mass.

PEACE

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Just need to be sophisticated enough in our thinking to understand the strateges applied by ws.t.

First decapitate Africa via severing North Africa from something called "sub-saharan" Africa.

Then, if the "patient" has the audacity to continue twitching, rip its heart out [East Africa].

Can't overemphasise the importance of understanding why this was done, and exactly what is gained by whom and at Africa's expense, in doing so.

There are many valid approaches to reclaiming African biohistory -

Tropical Africa,

Black Africa,

Native Africa,

....are all valid concepts and all are necessary to faciliate a true understanding of Africa's people/history.

Quote from ws.t [and non ws.t] sources, yes.

Learn from them, yes.

Allow them to tell us how to define ourselves as Africans, and 'when' we are permitted to do so.....Heaven's no!

Good discussion though guys, and I look forward to learning more from all of you.