posted
I have a question about [A[frican [A[mericans in general...
What are we? I mean are we to be considered Mixed people like Mexican which means mixed or are we to consider ourselves rightful Africans living in America?
I can trace my family all the wa back to the slave ship i.e. Jack Hudson... yet with so many other types of blood within my family (Native American, European, Asian..etc.) ... how can we honestly claim Hebrew, Egyptian or for that matter any West African nation or tribe with so much admixture running through our veins?
I know that my forefather Jack Hudson made it to the ports in South Carolina... Yet how much of its history can I truly claim?
I call myself and AA while at the same time denying my other heritages because they are the ones showing cruelty of my other make up...
What your thoughts... I mean what type of genetic study can be done on African Americans which will still link us to primary areas of Africa? I'm pretty such that many of us from came from certain tribes just to mix it up here in the Americas..
Posts: 8 | From: Fresno | Registered: Feb 2006
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posted
I posted in another thread about this earlier. Except for rare cases, African-Americans on average have 17% European mixture and little, very little Native American ancestry, less than 3%.
Posts: 2595 | From: Vicksburg | Registered: Feb 2006
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Rigaud quote: _____________________________________________________________ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I posted in another thread about this earlier. Except for rare cases, African-Americans on average have 17% European mixture and little, very little Native American ancestry, less than 3%. __________________________________________________________ I don't really believe the data on Native American ancestry among AAs is correct. My parents claim that we have Indian ancestors.
I prefer to accept the testimony regarding my native American heritage from my parents and grandparents instead of allowing genetists to tell me my origin.
-------------------- C. A. Winters Posts: 13012 | From: Chicago | Registered: Jan 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters: Rigaud quote: _____________________________________________________________ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I posted in another thread about this earlier. Except for rare cases, African-Americans on average have 17% European mixture and little, very little Native American ancestry, less than 3%. __________________________________________________________ I don't really believe the data on Native American ancestry among AAs is correct. My parents claim that we have Indian ancestors.
I prefer to accept the testimony regarding my native American heritage from my parents and grandparents instead of allowing genetists to tell me my origin.
I have significant Native American ancestry myself and thats because my grandmother is fully Native American, but that is *NOT* the norm amongst AAs. Alot of AAs like to think they have NA ancestry but the truth is that contact between NAs and AAs wasn't significant as people think. A genetic test would be more accurate than just oral tradition.
Posts: 2595 | From: Vicksburg | Registered: Feb 2006
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posted
No! That's precisely wrong! A genetic test -- barring incest or uncle/niece, and cousin marriages -- will miss 2 of the 4 grandparents, 6 of the 8 great grandparents and 14 of the 16 great great grandparents!
The profiteers of the DNA "selftest" kits aren't going to tell that to their clients. People are banking on these tests to tell them their ethnicity but I'm here to tell you they only show a minute possibility as to what your ethnicity may be.
Genetic testing is good for populations but not for individuals.
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters: Rigaud quote: _____________________________________________________________ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I posted in another thread about this earlier. Except for rare cases, African-Americans on average have 17% European mixture and little, very little Native American ancestry, less than 3%. __________________________________________________________ I don't really believe the data on Native American ancestry among AAs is correct. My parents claim that we have Indian ancestors.
I prefer to accept the testimony regarding my native American heritage from my parents and grandparents instead of allowing genetists to tell me my origin.
I have significant Native American ancestry myself and thats because my grandmother is fully Native American, but that is *NOT* the norm amongst AAs. Alot of AAs like to think they have NA ancestry but the truth is that contact between NAs and AAs wasn't significant as people think. A genetic test would be more accurate than just oral tradition.
Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006
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quote:Originally posted by alTakruri: No! That's precisely wrong! A gentic test -- barring incest or uncle/niece, and cousin marriages -- will miss 2 of the 4 grandparents, 6 of the 8 great grandparents and 14 of the 16 great great grandparents!
The profiteers of the DNA "selftest" kits aren't going to tell that to their clients. People are banking on these tests to tell them their ethnicity but I'm here to tell you they only show a minute possibility as to what your ethnicity may be.
Genetic testing is good for populations but not for individuals.
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters: Rigaud quote: _____________________________________________________________ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I posted in another thread about this earlier. Except for rare cases, African-Americans on average have 17% European mixture and little, very little Native American ancestry, less than 3%. __________________________________________________________ I don't really believe the data on Native American ancestry among AAs is correct. My parents claim that we have Indian ancestors.
I prefer to accept the testimony regarding my native American heritage from my parents and grandparents instead of allowing genetists to tell me my origin.
I have significant Native American ancestry myself and thats because my grandmother is fully Native American, but that is *NOT* the norm amongst AAs. Alot of AAs like to think they have NA ancestry but the truth is that contact between NAs and AAs wasn't significant as people think. A genetic test would be more accurate than just oral tradition.
I had my DNA tested and it came out accurate the way I estimated it. That said, native American ancestry still isn't high in AAs.
Posts: 2595 | From: Vicksburg | Registered: Feb 2006
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posted
Who said it was? And what about the many many people like Ana and Marla where the results were screwed. The consumer needs to be aware and savvy about what individual testing does and does not reveal.
A genetic test performed on a sole individual is not more accurate than that individual's known family geneaology.
quote:Originally posted by Rigaud: I had my DNA tested and it came out accurate the way I estimated it. That said, native American ancestry still isn't high in AAs.
Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006
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posted
El-Ah, could you please post off-topic for topics not relating to ancient Egypt or Egyptology. This topic is off-topic.
Posts: 8675 | From: Tukuler al~Takruri as Ardo since OCT2014 | Registered: Feb 2003
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quote:I have significant Native American ancestry myself and thats because my grandmother is fully Native American , but that is *NOT* the norm amongst AAs. Alot of AAs like to think they have NA ancestry but the truth is that contact between NAs and AAs wasn't significant as people think. A genetic test would be more accurate than just oral tradition.
Didn't the last fully native american die like sometimes 80 years ago? I hear there is no native American living today who's "pure" (meaning non euro or AA and other recent mixture).
Posts: 1420 | Registered: May 2005
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Yonis quote: ___________________________________________________________ Didn't the last fully native american die like sometimes 80 years ago? I hear there is no native American living today who's "pure" (meaning non euro or AA and other recent mixture). ____________________________________________________________
This is an interesting question. Something else we don't think about is that the American Indians were not homogeneous. Many of the settled Indian groups intermarried with Europeans ,were exterminated or enslaved.
The living Indians are mainly found in the Southwest. These Indians were nomadic and are closely related to Mexican Indians. This makes me wonder what samples of Indian mtDNA are used as the "American Indian" samples, that are compared and used in genetic test.
The only way we will ever have a full genetic history of American Indians is to discover "authentic" Indian burial grounds and collect ancient mtDNA from skeletons, because the mtDNA of surviving Indian populations may not reflect the actual genetic history of Native Americans generally.
-------------------- C. A. Winters Posts: 13012 | From: Chicago | Registered: Jan 2006
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My grandfather who is still living proclaims that it doesn't matter how far we search for slave heritage on one side of my family... We will not find any connection to slave ships but that they were already over here. Now that tripped me out being that he is darker then most B/Africans.
He told me that the Mexican so-called indian are watered down but that his heritage was the first here. Now he's no mtDNA or Y Chromo...expert. Neither is he a historian or anything close to it, he speaking from oral tradition. That side of the family proclaims to have perserved their Indian heritage.
He also said that the pictures of these so-called indians or the oldest picture of these so called indians have already suffered mixing from the Spaniards. The older the picture the darker the Indian.
Now this is from my grandfather, yet I'm doing so research on this topic for myself. I'm of the opinion that the ancient Dravidians landed or found America i.e. Turtle Island before the Siberians... yet... that has no historical bases and this study is in the beginning stages...
posted
No need to apologize,El-ah. Just was reminding you to post Off-topic when there is a non-ancient Egyptian or Egyptology thread started.
Posts: 8675 | From: Tukuler al~Takruri as Ardo since OCT2014 | Registered: Feb 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Rigaud: I posted in another thread about this earlier. Except for rare cases, African-Americans on average have 17% European mixture and little, very little Native American ancestry, less than 3%.
true,the average african american have some form of mixture and 80% of afican americans have some form of mixture,if you include all black americans in america that number will go down to 65% or around that since most blacks coming from africa and other places like the caribeean are unmixed(meaning most blacks in africa and the carribean do not have a white or other racial background in thier background)
up to 80% of african americans do have some or little native american blood,but up to only 65% maybe 70% have some or little white blood but the % of white blood is higher in african americans than native americans,and up to 15% of african americans are unmixed and up to 30/37% of all black americans are unmixed if you include other black groups in america.
so yes african americans as awhole are not a mixed group like latinos and can not be called a mixed group,african americans are black,and they look black as whole so they are a black group that is known to have some form of mixture on average(not all) but they are not mixed,that's the big difference.
this is off topic overall but just wanted to clear that up and hopefully this is the last word on this topic.
Posts: 2688 | Registered: Jul 2004
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Kenndo quote: _______________________________________________________________________ true,the average african american have some form of mixture and 80% of afican americans have some form of mixture,if you include all black americans in america that number will go down to 65% or around that since most blacks coming from africa and other places like the caribeean are unmixed(meaning most blacks in africa and the carribean do not have a white or other racial background in thier background) ________________________________________________________
Are you sure of this? There are historical records which claim that Caribbean slaves mated with Carib and Taino Indians, and Europeans.
-------------------- C. A. Winters Posts: 13012 | From: Chicago | Registered: Jan 2006
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posted
Riguad, your Native American percentage is way off. My great grandfather was full Cherokee on my mom's dad side and Half Creek Indian on my mom's mom side. There were many Native/African mixing going on from the time Africans escaped bondage to the Trail of Tears from Georgia to Oklahoma. Many Native Americans claimed to be black or white in order to stay on their homeland.
quote:Originally posted by Rigaud:
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters: Rigaud quote: _____________________________________________________________ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I posted in another thread about this earlier. Except for rare cases, African-Americans on average have 17% European mixture and little, very little Native American ancestry, less than 3%. __________________________________________________________ I don't really believe the data on Native American ancestry among AAs is correct. My parents claim that we have Indian ancestors.
I prefer to accept the testimony regarding my native American heritage from my parents and grandparents instead of allowing genetists to tell me my origin.
I have significant Native American ancestry myself and thats because my grandmother is fully Native American, but that is *NOT* the norm amongst AAs. Alot of AAs like to think they have NA ancestry but the truth is that contact between NAs and AAs wasn't significant as people think. A genetic test would be more accurate than just oral tradition.
Posts: 104 | From: santa barbara, california usa | Registered: Mar 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Rigaud: [qb] I posted in another thread about this earlier. Except for rare cases, African-Americans on average have 17% European mixture and little, very little Native American ancestry, less than 3%.
true,the average african american have some form of mixture and 80% of afican americans have some form of mixture,if you include all black americans in america that number will go down to 65% or around that since most blacks coming from africa and [color=blue]other places like the caribeean are unmixed(meaning most blacks in africa and the carribean do not have a white or other racial background in thier background)[/color]
Kenndo, you're incorrect.
I suggest that you google "Garifuna".
Posts: 391 | Registered: Jan 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Rigaud: [qb] I posted in another thread about this earlier. Except for rare cases, African-Americans on average have 17% European mixture and little, very little Native American ancestry, less than 3%.
true,the average african american have some form of mixture and 80% of afican americans have some form of mixture,if you include all black americans in america that number will go down to 65% or around that since most blacks coming from africa and [color=blue]other places like the caribeean are unmixed(meaning most blacks in africa and the carribean do not have a white or other racial background in thier background)[/color]
Kenndo, you're incorrect.
I suggest that you google "Garifuna".
i am talking about the average black from the carribean not all,so in that sense i am not incorrect. i know alot of the garifuna have some form of native american blood,but i am talking about most folks in states that have mostly blacks,like jamaica,haiti,etc.
Posts: 2688 | Registered: Jul 2004
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quote:Originally posted by zulu: Riguad, your Native American percentage is way off. My great grandfather was full Cherokee on my mom's dad side and Half Creek Indian on my mom's mom side. There were many Native/African mixing going on from the time Africans escaped bondage to the Trail of Tears from Georgia to Oklahoma. Many Native Americans claimed to be black or white in order to stay on their homeland.
quote:Originally posted by Rigaud:
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters: Rigaud quote: _____________________________________________________________ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I posted in another thread about this earlier. Except for rare cases, African-Americans on average have 17% European mixture and little, very little Native American ancestry, less than 3%. __________________________________________________________ I don't really believe the data on Native American ancestry among AAs is correct. My parents claim that we have Indian ancestors.
I prefer to accept the testimony regarding my native American heritage from my parents and grandparents instead of allowing genetists to tell me my origin.
I have significant Native American ancestry myself and thats because my grandmother is fully Native American, but that is *NOT* the norm amongst AAs. Alot of AAs like to think they have NA ancestry but the truth is that contact between NAs and AAs wasn't significant as people think. A genetic test would be more accurate than just oral tradition.
he talking about averages that have little native aamerican blood. in the show african american lives,most of the blacks interview for that show found out that they had no native american blood.
I just saw the show last night on pbs channel 13
Posts: 2688 | Registered: Jul 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters: Kenndo quote: _______________________________________________________________________ true,the average african american have some form of mixture and 80% of afican americans have some form of mixture,if you include all black americans in america that number will go down to 65% or around that since most blacks coming from africa and other places like the caribeean are unmixed(meaning most blacks in africa and the carribean do not have a white or other racial background in thier background) ________________________________________________________
Are you sure of this? There are historical records which claim that Caribbean slaves mated with Carib and Taino Indians, and Europeans.
in recent studies that has been incorrect, interracial unions did not extent that far as many folks think. when the europeans came to haiti they wipe out the indians there and in most places jamaica. maybe few blacks interrmarried with indians in jamaica. tests have shown that most blacks in that country do not have any native blood or white. in the dominican rep. alot of mixed raced types there like to say they have native blood but recent studies have shown that the indians were wipe out and the mixture in the population there is not native,it's black. some dominicans do not like to say they have blacks in there background and they talk about being part native and part spainish and we know the mixture was only african and european.
here is an example of how the indians were wipe out in most carribean islands,so it would be impossible for blacks to interrmarry with indians in most of those countries except maybe a few countries and some places in central america. here is a link
posted
So what? Like in Zulu's case, where mom's dad is of Turtle Islander extraction, the maternal grandfather will escape detection were Zulu to pay for testing like the show's participants.
But Zulu's maternal grandfather will test positive because the TI inheritance was from the maternal grandfather's male lineage.
To verify family claims of TI heritage you have to test as many cousins as you can get to submit to testing for dependable results of negative confirmation.
quote:Originally posted by kenndo:
quote:Originally posted by zulu: My great grandfather was full Cherokee on my mom's dad side and Half Creek Indian on my mom's mom side. There were many Native/African mixing going on from the time Africans escaped bondage to the Trail of Tears from Georgia to Oklahoma. Many Native Americans claimed to be black or white in order to stay on their homeland.
in the show african american lives,most of the blacks interview for that show found out that they had no native american blood.
Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006
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Riguad, your Native American percentage is way off. My great grandfather was full Cherokee on my mom's dad side and Half Creek Indian on my mom's mom side. There were many Native/African mixing going on from the time Africans escaped bondage to the Trail of Tears from Georgia to Oklahoma. Many Native Americans claimed to be black or white in order to stay on their homeland.
he talking about averages that have little native aamerican blood. in the show african american lives,most of the blacks interview for that show found out that they had no native american blood.
I just saw the show last night on pbs channel 13
That's what atDNA testings are supposedly for, to provide the general picture of genetic inheritance from both paternal and maternal sides.
Posts: 5964 | Registered: Jan 2005
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quote:Originally posted by zulu: Riguad, your Native American percentage is way off. My great grandfather was full Cherokee on my mom's dad side and Half Creek Indian on my mom's mom side. There were many Native/African mixing going on from the time Africans escaped bondage to the Trail of Tears from Georgia to Oklahoma. Many Native Americans claimed to be black or white in order to stay on their homeland.
quote:Originally posted by Rigaud:
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters: Rigaud quote: _____________________________________________________________ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I posted in another thread about this earlier. Except for rare cases, African-Americans on average have 17% European mixture and little, very little Native American ancestry, less than 3%. __________________________________________________________ I don't really believe the data on Native American ancestry among AAs is correct. My parents claim that we have Indian ancestors.
I prefer to accept the testimony regarding my native American heritage from my parents and grandparents instead of allowing genetists to tell me my origin.
I have significant Native American ancestry myself and thats because my grandmother is fully Native American, but that is *NOT* the norm amongst AAs. Alot of AAs like to think they have NA ancestry but the truth is that contact between NAs and AAs wasn't significant as people think. A genetic test would be more accurate than just oral tradition.
This is correct!! My grandfather is full blood indian and my gandmother is 1/2 on my fathers side and on my mother side... I can trace my great great...etc.. grandfather back to the slave ships.. but my grandmothers mother is full blood indian. I am a darkskinned African American and look every last bit of it.
good post Zulu
Posts: 951 | From: where rules end and freedom begins | Registered: Jun 2004
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posted
What is native if so many different facest of people existed on this land? I mean it has came out in the was that muslims were here before Columbus who never stepped a foot on American soil.
They've found skeletons .. i.e. canial skeletons that match that of Africans
Posts: 951 | From: where rules end and freedom begins | Registered: Jun 2004
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posted
"Native", in the ends means little (except being born in that place) because everybody was from somewhere else before. Even in Africa, where Man appeared there were many migrations. I don't think that even East Africans can claim they have been there since Man first appeared, since, again, there have been so many migrations.
"What are we? I mean are we to be considered Mixed people like Mexican which means mixed or are we to consider ourselves rightful Africans living in America?"
As X-Ras said, on average, most of African-American's ancestors came from Africa *recently*, basically during the slave trade. On average they have some European and even "Native (oh, there's that word again) Americans" blood. Of course, some African-Americans are not even mostly African, but it could be argued their connection to the African continent is still strong.
Also, though I understand what you are saying, it's silly talking about "mixed peoples", since everybody on this Earth is "mixed" (in other words, has ancestors who came from different places). One can study from when these various ancestors came from and when they arrived and added to the genepool, but dividing people between mixed and pure ones is simply wrong.
Speaking about my self again, I know have blood and genes from people who came from different regions, but in the end I am simply Portuguese. Or better yet, I am simply me.
I also don't know what a rightfull African or European for that matter is. Since in biological and geographical matters there are no rights. If African-Americans were to simply return to Africa, they would be considered ilegals, and probably deportated. In other word, their African ancestry would preclude them from adquiring citizenship, in whatever country they choosed to settle. Such African ancestry might actually help get such citizenship, but this is another matter, lol.
Posts: 218 | Registered: Aug 2007
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quote: The only way we will ever have a full genetic history of American Indians is to discover "authentic" Indian burial grounds and collect ancient mtDNA from skeletons, because the mtDNA of surviving Indian populations may not reflect the actual genetic history of Native Americans generally.
Well good luck with that because in looking into my families genealogy (both sides) in Va.,the U.S. government now owns the land(Ft.Eustice and Langley AFB) which probably was a burial ground for the indigenous natives. My families have always lived in that general area.
El Ah- Your right, we didn't all come over here as slaves either.
Posts: 67 | Registered: Feb 2007
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quote: The only way we will ever have a full genetic history of American Indians is to discover "authentic" Indian burial grounds and collect ancient mtDNA from skeletons, because the mtDNA of surviving Indian populations may not reflect the actual genetic history of Native Americans generally.
Well good luck with that because in looking into my families genealogy (both sides) in Va.,the U.S. government now owns the land(Ft.Eustice and Langley AFB) which probably was a burial ground for the indigenous natives. My families have always lived in that general area.
El Ah- Your right, we didn't all come over here as slaves either.
Another curious question babe: do you think we like being called african-americans, despite the fact that most of us (except immigrsnts) are not from Africa? lol......
Posts: 447 | From: Somewhere son... | Registered: Sep 2006
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posted
I have no idea sometimes where the misconception comes from that AAs are somehow "mixed". Yea, you'll have your occasional Mulatto from time to time, but as a whole, the African-American community is overwhelmingly West and Central African in origin. This is no overstatement, I'm not too sure about the NA percentages; my great Grandmother on my father's side was half Navajo and on my mom's side I have confirmed Cherokee and Blackfoot ancestry. However, everybody else in my genealogy (as far as I can tell) is/was decidedly African.
A perfect example is the the PBS television program, 'African-American lives', where they tested DNA samples from various celebrities, many tracing their paternal or maternal lines back to specific ethnic groups in West and Central Africa. Mainly Mande, Igbo, and Angola peoples. Practically all of them assumed that they possessed substantial Native American ancestry, and only two (Chris Tucker and Oprah) came up positive. Ironically, these two also had some of the highest concentrations of African ancestry, bordering 83 to 89%, by autosomal estimates. Whoopi Goldberg struck gold with 92%! If we're to call that "mixed", then I have no idea what "pure" would entail. - These numbers can be viewed herePosts: 4021 | From: Bay Area, CA | Registered: Mar 2007
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quote:Another curious question babe: do you think we like being called african-americans, despite the fact that most of us (except immigrsnts) are not from Africa? lol......
I don't think there's a problem with it all, my grandmother was African/Native American(her father was the native.)
Do you have a problem with being called african-american? I'm not sure I understand your question.
Posts: 67 | Registered: Feb 2007
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posted
First and foremost, I thought that this messageboard was about Ancient Egypt not African Americans.
Hilarious those guys and girls were out there trying to avoid becoming extinct at the hands of whites and according to some all they have on their minds is sex with an African.
When have other non-African ethnic groups had more sex with African women than African men?
Since when does sex with an African automatically mean a half breed baby?
[Numerous insults redacted. Consider this your first warning, One and Done. - Henu]
quote:Originally posted by One_and_Done: [Insults redacted - Henu]
That was seriously uncalled for. You seem to be the one with an inferiority complex and nothing justifies disparaging Native Americans because you disagree with the posters here. That made up Chieftan name is analogous to calling an African-American man Tyrone as an assumed name.
I need to read more genetic studies on this subject but the general consensus in mainstream genetics is that you cannot logically split up your genome into racial or geographic percentages as race for one is a not a valid concept biologically and the origin of autosomes are not so discreet that you can delineate them neatly enough to construct a percentage.
I think that alTakruri's assessment is more accurate then Charles's was and this is supported by prominent geneticists such as Dr. Spencer Wells.
quote:A: Like a lot of Americans, my family tradition is that I have some Indian blood, Cherokee and Mohawk, but we don’t know exactly how much — 3/64ths or 1/16th or what have you. Is there any way to quantify the ancestry of a mixed-race person?
SW: We don’t really like to talk about races. We talk about lineages being at high frequencies in particular populations. Races really have no meaning biologically, certainly not genetically. Now, if you’re asking, “Do I have ancestors who came from the indigenous groups living in North America?” we could address that. But at the moment it’s very difficult to talk about dividing your genome up into 17 percent whatever. There are companies out there that will do this for you, but I don’t necessarily buy the results they are giving you.
The ethnoancestral makeup of most African-Americans of Middle Passage descent is predominately derived from West and Central African peoples and to a lesser extent Southeast Africa and Madagascar.
African-Americans probably aren't much more likely to have as many Native American ancestors as European-Americans. But AA and NA populations have certainly intermingled, especially in the Southeastern United States where assimilated Native American groups lived in the same communities as African Americans and there was certainly intermarriage.
My own Great Grandmother on my father's side was of Cherokee descent. She married my Great Grandfather who was a black smith and my father was very close to his Grandmother as she lived in the same house as him while he was growing up so Native American ancestry is a recognized part of my family's heritage.
I have a book called Black Indians: A Hidden Heritage by William Loren Katz, which chronicles various Afro-Native communities in American history such as the Seminoles who harbored freed men and Runaway slaves among their communities.
This chapter of American history should not be downplayed or blown out of proportion. There are historical interactions between African-American and Native American communities that led to intermarriage and the same is true for White Americans.
Some Blacks have Native ancestry, Some Whites do, some modern Native Americans have Black and White ancestry.
Because of the one-drop rule a person with recent ancestry from all 3 of these ethnic groups is more likely to be regarded as an African-American, but that's not to say that African-Americans are in general substantially admixed with non-Africans.
[ 17. August 2007, 01:41 PM: Message edited by: Henu ]
Posts: 1203 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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"Native", in the ends means little (except being born in that place) because everybody was from somewhere else before. Even in Africa, where Man appeared there were many migrations. I don't think that even East Africans can claim they have been there since Man first appeared, since, again, there have been so many migrations.
"What are we? I mean are we to be considered Mixed people like Mexican which means mixed or are we to consider ourselves rightful Africans living in America?"
As X-Ras said, on average, most of African-American's ancestors came from Africa *recently*, basically during the slave trade. On average they have some European and even "Native (oh, there's that word again) Americans" blood. Of course, some African-Americans are not even mostly African, but it could be argued their connection to the African continent is still strong.
Also, though I understand what you are saying, it's silly talking about "mixed peoples", since everybody on this Earth is "mixed" (in other words, has ancestors who came from different places). One can study from when these various ancestors came from and when they arrived and added to the genepool, but dividing people between mixed and pure ones is simply wrong.
Speaking about my self again, I know have blood and genes from people who came from different regions, but in the end I am simply Portuguese. Or better yet, I am simply me.
I also don't know what a rightfull African or European for that matter is. Since in biological and geographical matters there are no rights. If African-Americans were to simply return to Africa, they would be considered ilegals, and probably deportated. In other word, their African ancestry would preclude them from adquiring citizenship, in whatever country they choosed to settle. Such African ancestry might actually help get such citizenship, but this is another matter, lol.
MA, Note that Liberia was specifically founded for AA returnees and as far as I know that stipulation in its Constitution remains. In fact Helen Sirleaf-Johnson, President of Liberia, I would suspect, is predominantly of "Americo-Liberian"(often also called "Congo")extraction.
There have also been returnees from Brazil who settled mainly in Lagos, Nigeria. They acquired the new ethnic identity of "Brazilian Yoruba".
There were also resettlements in Benin Republic--also from Brazil--, Sierra Leone(the returnees formed a new society in Freetown and they became known as Krios), Gabon and the Gambia(the returnees there became known as Aku), etc.
Because of the controversy concerning the Atlantic trade--the fact especially that the African captives did not voluntarily leave their villages--a number of governments in West Africa--I believe especially Ghana--have been encouraging the descendants of those to who were transported to the Americas to assume citizenship as they please. For example, the wife of the late Bob Marley now lives in Ghana as a citizen.
There really is nothing new about this. After all, there are many people who have dual citizenships especially Jews who--according to their own thinking and Western governments--are automatic citizens of Israel if they so choose.
There are many Lebanese in West Africa who are citizens of their host countries just as there are many Africans who are citizens of Britain, France and Portugal.
The substantial question though is about perception. A Portugese citizen who is of Angolan extraction would always be perceived by the Portugese public as "African", the same for a "black" Martiniquan who is legally a French citizen(Martinique is an "overseas Department of France"). The African phenotype just about trumps everything else in the eyes of European French. Recall the riots in France last year mounted by the France-born North Africans on account, as they claim, of French racism.
In the case of AAs, they will fit easily into Liberia among the Americo-Liberia population, but in other parts of West Africa the acquired cultural markers from Europe such as religion, names, not knowing local languages, etc. would set them apart as culturally African American. But in a general way the same would apply to Nigerians in South Africa or Ethiopians in Senegal.
On the genetics of AAs note that 30% of males have non-African Y lineages while 5% of females have non-African MtDNa lineages. The predominant haplotype among AAs has also been noted to be E3a while female haplotypes are almost 100% West African.
Posts: 5492 | Registered: Nov 2004
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The island of St Vincent (Caribbean) still has Carib people! At one time there was the Red Carib and the Black Carib (usually African/Carib) and the former was taken from St Vincent to Central America, where there was an evolution to the Garifuna of present day Belize, Nicaragua and Honduras. In Brazil. Guyana and Suriname of South America have an African/Native America symbiotic relationship, where the escaped slaves lived within the Indian enclaves, and or separately carried out their existance and survival.
Posts: 1290 | From: usa | Registered: May 2005
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quote: That was seriously uncalled for. You seem to be the one with an inferiority complex and nothing justifies disparaging Native Americans
quote: Some Blacks have Native ancestry
I'm not the one going around claiming to be half Chief Wild Prarie.
Why don't you see about becoming a member of the Cherokee tribe and while you're at it ask for some of that casino money they getting rich off of. I'm sure that they will welcome you.
I'm also not the one who attempted to lie and reduce African Americans to a bunch of mindless dullards who fight each other over skin color. I'm the one who said that it's a lie.
I also find it interesting that if someone says something about an Arab, white boy, Native American, and others people immediately rush to their aid. That is absolutely pathetic.
Meanwhile there was a poster that for 4 months insulted West fricans by calling them "primative", "beasts", "animals", "contributing nothing" to society, culure, civilization and the world. Nobody said anything. Not one thing.
This poster also routinely insulted African Americans and nobody said anything other than only 1 or 2 times saying to "ignore him".
Apparently African Americans must rank higher than West Africans on alot of peoples racial hierarchy dogmas. Although alot here will flat out lie and say that they don't have one.
quote: The ethnoancestral makeup of most African-Americans of Middle Passage descent is predominately derived from West and Central African peoples and to a lesser extent Southeast Africa and Madagascar.
How do you know this? Outside of your twisted fantasy that certain Africans had to be slaves. Is this because in your crazy mind you think that if an African looks a certain way that he had to have been a slave? Be a man and just admit it. You are basically Cooning your way through history.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with the looks of a West or Central African. And there is certainly nothing about their looks that says slave. Even though some were brought over, they weren't the only ones as people from North, East and Southern Africa were. You really need to leave the National Geographic channel alone and get out of the house sometime.
According to popular logic if someone does not look like a "West" or "Central" African that is person mixed? Because according to a whole lot of people they have to be.
Therefore whites, Asians, and Native Americans are the reason why some African Americans look like Africans North, East, and South. That's a damn lie.
Or if someone doesn't look like this 'El Ahhhhhhhhhh' character (R U Religious) then they must have a white boy, Asian, or Native American in the family. I must be mixed to since I don't look anything like him myself.
I'm not havin it "."
I get the impression that alot of people on here and elsewhere basically have a sick pathological dogma as slaves being synonymous with West Africans and more recently "Central" Africans whatever that is. (Most people throwing around such terms never define them)
You sorry suckers with this mentality need some serious psychological help.
White people insinuating that: Gabrielle Union, Denzel Washington, Nick Cannon, Julius Erving (Dr. J), Sammy Davis Jr., LL Cool J, Brandy, Kerry Washington, Chili from TLC, Chaka Kahn, T.I., Richard Prior, Vanessa Williams, Michael Jordan, Gregory Hines, Lionel Richie, the African American players of the NBA, and countless others are supposedly saturated with white, Asian, and Native American DNA. And fools buy into this nonsense.
In an earlier thread there was testimony to:
A Moroccan boy who was kidnapped and brought to the new world.
Indians were brought over.
Turks were brought over.
There were European Americans that were kidnapped from there own homes in the U.S. and sold as slaves.
There were Native Americans who were slaves in the 1800's.
They were buying and selling the so called "Berbers" left and right in Northern Africa to the highest bidder. Who knows where they ended up.
I've come across pictures of horners awaiting to be sold to the highest bidder. (Yes the so called stereotypical light ones)
I've come across Ethiopians (Absynnians) writing that they had people brought to the Americas.
I've come across pictures of Somalis being used as slaves.
I have seen horners from both countries post historical references to slaves coming from their countries (and I'm not talking about the white contrived "Bantu" people, again whatever that is).
And since you (not I) are so big on genetic testing explain how there are African Americans who "supposedly" have Tuareg and Fulani ancestry.
You know the so called West Africans along with the Hausa who supposedly were not brought over as slaves. Probably because of their so called looks as I have stated earlier.
What about the woman who after "genetic" testing "supposedly" having "Nubian" ancestry.
I won't even get into the British Naval archives.
But go ahead and keep living the West Africans and Central Africans were the world's slaves mental disorder that you have. The whites have you well trained.
Posts: 76 | Registered: Apr 2006
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I'm not the one going around claiming to be half Chief Wild Prarie. 
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