Some people claim that a person's "race" is a factor in deciding which hemisphere is more dominant in that person. Ra Un Nefer Amen suggests that Black women are generally far right while White Men are far left. Any comments?
Could it be that the Egyptians managed to find "balance", hence their high level of civilisation which is yet unrivalled?
Posts: 3423 | From: the jungle - when y'all stop playing games, call me. | Registered: Jul 2006
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posted
Hemispheric dominance as a concept in human behavior has been rejected as a major determinant in human interactions. Brain dominance has little if anything to do with learning. Moreover, females generally are able to use both sides of their brain more efficiently than males.
If you are interested in the role of the brain in learning you may want to purchase my book Brain Based Learning and Special Education.
Here I break down the role of the brain in learning and offer suggestions on how you can learn more efficienly by understanding how the brain interprets human experiences and provides us with the schema to facilitate learning.
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters: Hemispheric dominance as a concept in human behavior has been rejected as a major determinant in human interactions. Brain dominance has little if anything to do with learning. Moreover, females generally are able to use both sides of their brain more efficiently than males.
If you are interested in the role of the brain in learning you may want to purchase my book Brain Based Learning and Special Education.
Here I break down the role of the brain in learning and offer suggestions on how you can learn more efficienly by understanding how the brain interprets human experiences and provides us with the schema to facilitate learning.
.
Are you saying women are generally more intelligent/superior to men?
I've always felt an intuition that women are "smarter". No wonder they don't get much involved in the senseless violence & ignorance that men inflict on the planet Posts: 3423 | From: the jungle - when y'all stop playing games, call me. | Registered: Jul 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters: Hemispheric dominance as a concept in human behavior has been rejected as a major determinant in human interactions. Brain dominance has little if anything to do with learning. Moreover, females generally are able to use both sides of their brain more efficiently than males.
If you are interested in the role of the brain in learning you may want to purchase my book Brain Based Learning and Special Education.
Here I break down the role of the brain in learning and offer suggestions on how you can learn more efficienly by understanding how the brain interprets human experiences and provides us with the schema to facilitate learning.
.
LOL One of those rare and special occasions in which Dr. Winters is correct!
quote:Originally posted by herukhuti: Are you saying women are generally more intelligent/superior to men?
I've always felt an intuition that women are "smarter". No wonder they don't get much involved in the senseless violence & ignorance that men inflict on the planet
No, this is not to say women are "more intelligent". The greater number of neural pathway connections between both sides of the brain mean that women tend to do better at things like multi-tasking and communication. It's true there are certain aspects of the the brain that differ between the sexes giving males certain advantages on one hand and females certain advantages on another but these advantages are not absolute. Meaning, there are females who are gifted in mathematics and engineering as there are males who are gifted in communication, and self expression.
Posts: 26252 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
Clyde, your book doesn't seem to be on Amazon. Where can I purchase it or at least have a look at some sample chapters?
Posts: 3423 | From: the jungle - when y'all stop playing games, call me. | Registered: Jul 2006
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Are you saying women are generally more intelligent/superior to men?
I've always felt an intuition that women are "smarter". No wonder they don't get much involved in the senseless violence & ignorance that men inflict on the planet --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Djehuti provides the answer to your question.
Djehuti
quote: No, this is not to say women are "more intelligent". The greater number of neural pathway connections between both sides of the....
.
-------------------- C. A. Winters Posts: 13012 | From: Chicago | Registered: Jan 2006
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quote: Clyde, your book doesn't seem to be on Amazon. Where can I purchase it or at least have a look at some sample chapters? --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I've always felt an intuition that women are "smarter". No wonder they don't get much involved in the senseless violence & ignorance that men inflict on the planet.
I take it then, that you probably haven't heard of either Condoleeza Rice, Madeleine Albright, or Hillary Clinton, or to a lesser degree, German chancellor Angela Merkel? Posts: 5964 | Registered: Jan 2005
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I've always felt an intuition that women are "smarter". No wonder they don't get much involved in the senseless violence & ignorance that men inflict on the planet.
I take it then, that you probably haven't heard of either Condoleeza Rice, Madeleine Albright, or Hillary Clinton, or to a lesser degree, German chancellor Angela Merkel?
Supercar, I don't suppose you understood what I meant by "don't get MUCH involved". It's not a suprise given the history of our previous conversations. Here's what it means:
It means women DO get involved in the senseless violence & ignorance that men inflict on the planet, but not MUCH. Get it?
Supercar, you seem to have a bit of Djayhuti's swagger. I wonder if it's the same driver behind the two monikers... Posts: 3423 | From: the jungle - when y'all stop playing games, call me. | Registered: Jul 2006
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I've always felt an intuition that women are "smarter". No wonder they don't get much involved in the senseless violence & ignorance that men inflict on the planet.
I take it then, that you probably haven't heard of either Condoleeza Rice, Madeleine Albright, or Hillary Clinton, or to a lesser degree, German chancellor Angela Merkel?
Supercar, I don't suppose you understood what I meant by "don't get MUCH involved". It's not a suprise given the history of our previous conversations. Here's what it means:
It means women DO get involved in the senseless violence & ignorance that men inflict on the planet, but not MUCH. Get it?
Supercar, you seem to have a bit of Djayhuti's swagger. I wonder if it's the same driver behind the two monikers...
I wonder if you're "Djayhuti's" asshole or what. Get it?
Posts: 5964 | Registered: Jan 2005
| IP: Logged |
I've always felt an intuition that women are "smarter". No wonder they don't get much involved in the senseless violence & ignorance that men inflict on the planet.
I take it then, that you probably haven't heard of either Condoleeza Rice, Madeleine Albright, or Hillary Clinton, or to a lesser degree, German chancellor Angela Merkel?
Supercar, I don't suppose you understood what I meant by "don't get MUCH involved". It's not a suprise given the history of our previous conversations. Here's what it means:
It means women DO get involved in the senseless violence & ignorance that men inflict on the planet, but not MUCH. Get it?
Supercar, you seem to have a bit of Djayhuti's swagger. I wonder if it's the same driver behind the two monikers...
I wonder if you're "Djayhuti's" asshole or what. Get it?
I rest my case Posts: 3423 | From: the jungle - when y'all stop playing games, call me. | Registered: Jul 2006
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You never have a case to make, other than primitive attacks on folks with your jungle mode of communication. But in case you didn't get what I was trying to get through to you, I can always break it down to broken ebonics. Posts: 5964 | Registered: Jan 2005
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You never have a case to make, other than primitive attacks on folks with your jungle mode of communication. But in case you didn't get what I was trying to get through to you, I can always break it down to broken ebonics.
I did have a case to make but you are too spastic to pay enough attention, therefore you still didn't get it even though I broke it down for you. I EXPLAINED to you that Women can be ignorant and destructive like men but to a far lesser extent (only a Neanderthal wouldn't understand this very simple point). Obviously, you must be mentally challenged to not be able to understand this. I sympathise.
You have sneakily put in the words "jungle" and "ebonics" into your speech as a subtle way of insulting my Black/African status LOL What a fool. There is nothing wrong with the jungle and many Africans are proud of their mastery of that particular environment (though, I am a city dweller). Ebonics is "African-American English" and though I am a Nigerian, I am proud to indulge in a form of English spoken by my BROTHERS across the atlantic, so go-ahead, break 'it' (whatever that is ) down to me in ebonics.
As far as my 'primitive' attacks, they are but responses to the Neanderthal trolling that you and your brother Djehuti are notorious on this forum for.
It would be nice to keep this s*** out of this particular thread so this topic can continue gracefully. If you still desire some verbal spanking from me after this, create another thread for it where I will be glad to spar with you for as many rounds as you want and prove to you just why there are many more intelligent homo-sapiens on this planet than desperate Neanderthal trolls like yourself.
Posts: 3423 | From: the jungle - when y'all stop playing games, call me. | Registered: Jul 2006
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posted
I suppose this essay of fuming, is the gist of your "case"; an interesting showcase of your intellectually challenged literacy. Naturally, it is this kind of babbling that one can expect from an illegitimate fetus of a 2 cents whoring rhinoceros, that you call your mama. It must not have been too long, that you've screwed that hussy mama of yours. The telltale signs are all too apparent in your response, if you know what I mean. Posts: 5964 | Registered: Jan 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Supercar: I suppose this essay of fuming, is the gist of your "case"; an interesting showcase of your intellectually challenged literacy. Naturally, it is this kind of babbling that one can expect from an illegitimate fetus of a 2 cent whoring rhinoceros, that you call your mama. It must not have been too long, that you've screwed that hussy mama of yours. The telltale signs are all too apparent in your response, if you know what I mean.
... Posts: 3423 | From: the jungle - when y'all stop playing games, call me. | Registered: Jul 2006
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quote:Originally posted by herukhuti: I've always felt an intuition that women are "smarter". No wonder they don't get much involved in the senseless violence & ignorance that men inflict on the planet.
Actually the part of the pre-frontal cortex of the brain responsible for inhibitions especially the control of violent impulses is much larger in females than in males. Which tends to make women resort to violence much less than men. Unfortunately women tend to feel emotions of anger more frequently and for longer periods than men.
And unfortunately, Herukhuti you sound as if YOUR brain has been damaged. I suggest you leave this board to seek medical attention you desperatelly need. Posts: 26252 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters: Hemispheric dominance as a concept in human behavior has been rejected as a major determinant in human interactions. Brain dominance has little if anything to do with learning. Moreover, females generally are able to use both sides of their brain more efficiently than males.
If you are interested in the role of the brain in learning you may want to purchase my book Brain Based Learning and Special Education.
Here I break down the role of the brain in learning and offer suggestions on how you can learn more efficienly by understanding how the brain interprets human experiences and provides us with the schema to facilitate learning.
.
Are you saying women are generally more intelligent/superior to men?
I've always felt an intuition that women are "smarter". No wonder they don't get much involved in the senseless violence & ignorance that men inflict on the planet
Actually men have on average performed higher in IQ tests than women. By a difference of 5 to 4 points. Think about it...look at human progress, and you'll see it's almost impossible to name every single innovation created my males. (i'm not a shovenist) The world's philosophers, and geniuses were mostly men.
Left handed people are also on average more intelligent than right handed people. (50% of mensa consists of lefties!)
MENSA = an international fellowship organization for people with IQ's in the top 2 percent of the general population.
Posts: 214 | Registered: Feb 2006
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Herukhuti I think that concept that is discussed would be considered racist against Europeans, which would lead to most people attacking such a theory because of it's racist ideologies.
Egyptsearch tends to be more scientific oriented so you would expect a lot of posters to attack such a theory, because racist ideologies get attacked on Egyptsearch most of the time.
The main or dominant theory on Egyptsearch is that RACE does NOT exist so anyone who posts race related topics usually gets scorched or attacked. Race related topics usually put you in the line of fire here.
Herukhuti, this is just a little advice that I thought I would share with you.
quote: Are you saying women are generally more intelligent/superior to men?
I've always felt an intuition that women are "smarter".
Personally I believe that there are no differences between the ability of females and males to learn.Here are some newspaper articles discussing this issue which may be of interest.
_______________________________ Women cleverer than men, says MP
Girls are getting more top grades than boys at GCSE and A-level Women are brighter than men, according to the Labour chairman of the Commons education committee. Huddersfield MP Barry Sheerman said there was a "danger" of being obsessed about how boys were doing at school.
His comments followed a committee discussion about whether girls or boys found it easier to learn to read.
"My own personal view is that women are brighter than men," the MP said, adding that women now earned on average more than men as middle managers.
First class?
He said: "We should celebrate this, shouldn't we? The brightest kids are coming through and they happen to be women."
In recent years girls have consistently outperformed boys at all levels of the education system.
The "gender gap" at GCSE level in England, Wales and Northern Ireland this year was 5.3 percentage points at grades A* and A and by 8.4 points at grades C and above in girls' favour.
Boys' performance had improved more than girls', however.
This was even more noticeable at A-level. Even so, 23.7% of girls' entries achieved A grades, compared to 21% of boys'.
Ninety-five per cent of boys' entries were passes, against 96.8% of girls'.
More young women than men go to university.
Schools define many more boys than girls as having special educational problems - which some researchers argue means the schools are failing to meet boys' needs.
'Wrong schooling'
In the latest major international study of the performance of 15-year-olds in maths, reading and science tests, boys out-performed girls in almost all of the 40 countries involved in maths.
In reading, girls had "significantly higher average performance" in all countries except Liechtenstein. The biggest gap was in Iceland.
Science showed the smallest average gender gap, with boys doing a little better.
American educational researchers William Draves and Julie Coates have argued that it is not boys who are the problem but schools.
While boys are developing the skills they will need in the "knowledge jobs" of the future, schools are still preparing students for a past industrial age, they have said.
_________________________
Are Women Smarter Than Men? College-Enrollment Trends Suggest So 05.23.2005 1:54 PM EDT
The number of bachelor's degrees earned by women jumped by 70 percent — compared with 5 percent for men — between 1975 and 2001. College graduates toss their caps (file) Photo: David Hecker/Getty Images
Studies show that women are now outnumbering men among college graduates.
At graduation ceremonies across the country this month, colleges handed out 200,000 more degrees to women than men, according to Tom Mortensen, a senior scholar at the
What do you do after the party's over?
Grab some grub. Hit the hay. The party never ends!
"Men don't seem to be getting the same message — that the world is changing and they need to get more education." — Pell Institute's Tom Mortensen
Pell Institute for the Study of Opportunity in Higher Education, who has been studying enrollment trends for the last decade.
"There has been a longtime record of significant progress and gains in education among women," he said in an interview with National Public Radio. Between 1975 and 2001, the number of bachelor's degrees earned by women jumped by 70 percent, compared with a 5 percent climb for men, Mortensen reported in his 2003 study, "What's Wrong With the Guys?" According to the U.S. Census Bureau, the number of females enrolling in college after high school increased by 20 percent from 1967 to 2000, while the number of men enrolling has decreased by 4 percent.
The effects of the trend are also being felt internationally. In 16 countries across the world, female grad rates surpass males, while men earning degrees outnumber women in only six industrialized countries.
In the U.S., the imbalance is most prominent among blacks, Mortensen said. In 2000, black women earned twice as many bachelor's degrees as black men.
"We seem to know how to encourage, motivate and prepare young women for the private-job sector, but there's really no conversation going on about what we ought to be doing to prepare our boys," Mortensen said. "Men don't seem to be getting the same message — that the world is changing and they need to get more education in order to be adequately employed later on in life."
Kevin Carey, director of policy research at Education Trust-West, noted that once enrolled, women are significantly more likely to graduate than men.
"There are essentially no economic opportunities for women without an advanced education," he said. "There are at least some left for men in manual labor or trade-oriented jobs where you can earn a decent living, but uneducated women have no options in this modern economy — I think they know that, and that's why they're more inclined to go [to college]."
Also, college enrollment is at an all-time high of 16 million students in the U.S., according to a March report issued by the National Association for College Admission Counseling. "Some studies suggest up to 80 percent of all high-school graduates will enroll in some type of post-secondary education by the age of 25," Carey noted. In 2004, Asians had the highest continuation rate among ethnic groups — at 76 percent — while whites came in second at 68 percent, Hispanics at 61 percent, and blacks at 61 percent.
There has also been a significant rise in the number of minorities who graduate from college, yet there still remains a significant gap between minorities and whites. "Less than half of all minority students who enroll in college graduate within six years," he said. Contributing factors can include the rising cost of tuition, difficulties adjusting socially, and a lack of academic preparation in high school.
Despite the adversity, Latinos have made significant headway. In the 1990s, the number of bachelor's degrees awarded to Hispanics rose by 105 percent, while the number of master's degrees increased by 128 percent.
In April, Alberto Gonzalez, chairman of the board of the Hispanic Association of Colleges and Universities, introduced legislation to boost grant funding to $175 million for colleges that have at least 25 percent Hispanic enrollment. According to a 2004 report from the Pew Hispanic Center, Latinos are the fastest-growing college-enrollment group and now represent 11 percent of students in higher education.
Still, studies show that many students arrive at college unprepared, and many institutions turn a blind eye to the number of students dropping out. "I think the colleges have gotten complacent because more and more people come in every year, and as long as there are enough of them paying tuition, it doesn't really matter if they don't graduate," Carey said. According to a recent Manhattan Institute report, two-thirds of students leave high school unprepared for higher education.
But in order to combat the problem, many public schools are adopting college-preparatory courses as the default curriculum in order to prepare students for the rigorous coursework of a university.
"Not everyone wants to go to college," Carey said. "But most people do, and everyone should [be equipped] to succeed."
For one young Latina woman's story about heading off to college and how that has created trouble at home for her, check out "My Life Translated: College Dreams," premiering Monday, May 23 at 6:30 p.m. ET.
— Brandee J. Tecson
-------------------- C. A. Winters Posts: 13012 | From: Chicago | Registered: Jan 2006
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posted
"Could it be that the Egyptians managed to find "balance", hence their high level of civilisation which is yet unrivalled?"
Don't you think that modern civilization has achieved much more than the Egyptians or any other ancient civilization has? Planes, trains, computers, cell phones, skyscrapers, helicopters, rockets, electricity, cars, faxes, stereos, bikes, houses, indoor plumbing, supermarkets, government/freedoms, and the like?
Don't you think that modern civilization has achieved much more than the Egyptians or any other ancient civilization has? Planes, trains, computers, cell phones, skyscrapers, helicopters, rockets, electricity, cars, faxes, stereos, bikes, houses, indoor plumbing, supermarkets, government/freedoms, and the like?
Modern civilization is great, but it is temporary. It is temporary because it was created by unnatural things, i.e., oil and concrete.
Once oil is gone it will decline ,if the effects of gobal warming don't destroy our civilization first. We can see everyday what happen to the structures the Romans made out of concrete. Whereas the pyramid, which is made of stone and aligned expertly remains for all to see today.
Egyptian civilization was a naturalistic civilization whoes technology was depended purely on human genius and innovation and exploiting nature--not a single resource. You have to remember that Egyptian civilization lasted for 5000 years, but no European civilization has lasted 400 years.
.
-------------------- C. A. Winters Posts: 13012 | From: Chicago | Registered: Jan 2006
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters: Sshaun002
quote:
Don't you think that modern civilization has achieved much more than the Egyptians or any other ancient civilization has? Planes, trains, computers, cell phones, skyscrapers, helicopters, rockets, electricity, cars, faxes, stereos, bikes, houses, indoor plumbing, supermarkets, government/freedoms, and the like?
Modern civilization is great, but it is temporary. It is temporary because it was created by unnatural things, i.e., oil and concrete.
Once oil is gone it will decline ,if the effects of gobal warming don't destroy our civilization first. We can see everyday what happen to the structures the Romans made out of concrete. Whereas the pyramid, which is made of stone and aligned expertly remains for all to see today.
Egyptian civilization was a naturalistic civilization whoes technology was depended purely on human genius and innovation and exploiting nature--not a single resource. You have to remember that Egyptian civilization lasted for 5000 years, but no European civilization has lasted 400 years.
.
All civilizations rise and fall with the presence or lack of resources. Lack of arable land, dry seasons, and so forth. Even the pyramids could not have been built without enough stone being available. There are alternatives to oil and there is no shortage of concrete. I don't necessarily think the mark of a great civilization is whether its structures stay intact a few hundred versus a few thousand years.
If you agree that Western civilization began with the Ancient Greeks, than European civilization has lasted well over 400 years - only those in power have changed hands(from the Romans, to the British, to the Spanish to the Americans, and so forth).
In fact current civilization allows us to create resources where they didn't previously exist (ex. Las Vegas is a desert but one would never know it while on the strip). Global warming is debatable. It's not so much how natural or unnatural current civilization is; it's how we choose to use the tools it gives us. We don't have to over fish but we do. We can live without so many goods, but we choose not to.
Current civilization is greater than anything before it because we have absorbed all the knowledge from previous civilizations, built upon them, perfected them, and more.
Posts: 477 | Registered: Jul 2006
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quote: If you agree that Western civilization began with the Ancient Greeks, than European civilization has lasted well over 400 years - only those in power have changed hands(from the Romans, to the British, to the Spanish to the Americans, and so forth).
I don't agree that Western civilization has lasted from Greek times up to the modern period.
This is not what I am saying. There has never been a continuation of European civilization from Grecian to modern times.
What I am saying is that Egyptian civilization lasted for 5000 years. Each European civilization: Rome,and Greece lasted only 300-400 years. Then it went into decline and eventually Europeans lost what ever civilization they had.
In the case of Greek civilization it disappeared from the earth until the rise of Rome. The Germanic tribes destroyed Roman civilization. Roman and Grecian civilization disappeared until the coming of the Arabs who passed on civilization to the Western Europeans.
Europeans have a tendency to lose their "civilization" over a period of time, turn to barbarism and then relearn civilization from other people e.g. the Greeks learned from the Egyptians and Persians(/Babylonians), and modern Europeans learned from the Arabs. Egyptian civilization never went through periods of lost and fall civilization. They remained literate and technologically advance throughout the length of their great civilization until the coming of the Greeks and Romans.
Sshaun002
quote:
Global warming is debatable. It's not so much how natural or unnatural current civilization is; it's how we choose to use the tools it gives us. We don't have to over fish but we do. We can live without so many goods, but we choose not to.
This is what makes our civilization unnatural and in the end will cause its probable disappearence.If we don't manage what we have eventually we have nothing.
I don't look forward to this happening. I love cable TV.
Herukhuti I think that concept that is discussed would be considered racist against Europeans, which would lead to most people attacking such a theory because of it's racist ideologies.
Egyptsearch tends to be more scientific oriented so you would expect a lot of posters to attack such a theory, because racist ideologies get attacked on Egyptsearch most of the time.
The main or dominant theory on Egyptsearch is that RACE does NOT exist so anyone who posts race related topics usually gets scorched or attacked. Race related topics usually put you in the line of fire here.
Herukhuti, this is just a little advice that I thought I would share with you.
Hotep
That's cool Hotep. It wasn't intended to be racist. It's just something I read somewhere and wanted to hear peoples' opinions and/or knowledge on it.
Posts: 3423 | From: the jungle - when y'all stop playing games, call me. | Registered: Jul 2006
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters: Hemispheric dominance as a concept in human behavior has been rejected as a major determinant in human interactions. Brain dominance has little if anything to do with learning. Moreover, females generally are able to use both sides of their brain more efficiently than males.
If you are interested in the role of the brain in learning you may want to purchase my book Brain Based Learning and Special Education.
Here I break down the role of the brain in learning and offer suggestions on how you can learn more efficienly by understanding how the brain interprets human experiences and provides us with the schema to facilitate learning.
.
Are you saying women are generally more intelligent/superior to men?
I've always felt an intuition that women are "smarter". No wonder they don't get much involved in the senseless violence & ignorance that men inflict on the planet
Actually men have on average performed higher in IQ tests than women. By a difference of 5 to 4 points. Think about it...look at human progress, and you'll see it's almost impossible to name every single innovation created my males. (i'm not a shovenist) The world's philosophers, and geniuses were mostly men.
Left handed people are also on average more intelligent than right handed people. (50% of mensa consists of lefties!)
MENSA = an international fellowship organization for people with IQ's in the top 2 percent of the general population.
I see your point but the validity of the IQ test has always been a debate...
Also, men tend to be in a "better position" to innovate and (in the past) were more likely to be taken seriously in a scientific environment. Of course this is changing...
Posts: 3423 | From: the jungle - when y'all stop playing games, call me. | Registered: Jul 2006
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by herukhuti: I've always felt an intuition that women are "smarter". No wonder they don't get much involved in the senseless violence & ignorance that men inflict on the planet.
Actually the part of the pre-frontal cortex of the brain responsible for inhibitions especially the control of violent impulses is much larger in females than in males. Which tends to make women resort to violence much less than men. Unfortunately women tend to feel emotions of anger more frequently and for longer periods than men.
And unfortunately, Herukhuti you sound as if YOUR brain has been damaged. I suggest you leave this board to seek medical attention you desperatelly need.
You're always SUGGESTING stupid things to people who have not asked for your suggestion.
It is now apparent to me why most people tolerate you & your brother circle jerking each other all over this forum. You're obviously a special (needs) basket case. Posts: 3423 | From: the jungle - when y'all stop playing games, call me. | Registered: Jul 2006
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters: Herukuti
quote: Are you saying women are generally more intelligent/superior to men?
I've always felt an intuition that women are "smarter".
Personally I believe that there are no differences between the ability of females and males to learn.Here are some newspaper articles discussing this issue which may be of interest.
_______________________________ Women cleverer than men, says MP
Girls are getting more top grades than boys at GCSE and A-level Women are brighter than men, according to the Labour chairman of the Commons education committee. Huddersfield MP Barry Sheerman said there was a "danger" of being obsessed about how boys were doing at school.
His comments followed a committee discussion about whether girls or boys found it easier to learn to read.
"My own personal view is that women are brighter than men," the MP said, adding that women now earned on average more than men as middle managers.
First class?
He said: "We should celebrate this, shouldn't we? The brightest kids are coming through and they happen to be women."
In recent years girls have consistently outperformed boys at all levels of the education system.
The "gender gap" at GCSE level in England, Wales and Northern Ireland this year was 5.3 percentage points at grades A* and A and by 8.4 points at grades C and above in girls' favour.
Boys' performance had improved more than girls', however.
This was even more noticeable at A-level. Even so, 23.7% of girls' entries achieved A grades, compared to 21% of boys'.
Ninety-five per cent of boys' entries were passes, against 96.8% of girls'.
More young women than men go to university.
Schools define many more boys than girls as having special educational problems - which some researchers argue means the schools are failing to meet boys' needs.
'Wrong schooling'
In the latest major international study of the performance of 15-year-olds in maths, reading and science tests, boys out-performed girls in almost all of the 40 countries involved in maths.
In reading, girls had "significantly higher average performance" in all countries except Liechtenstein. The biggest gap was in Iceland.
Science showed the smallest average gender gap, with boys doing a little better.
American educational researchers William Draves and Julie Coates have argued that it is not boys who are the problem but schools.
While boys are developing the skills they will need in the "knowledge jobs" of the future, schools are still preparing students for a past industrial age, they have said.
_________________________
Are Women Smarter Than Men? College-Enrollment Trends Suggest So 05.23.2005 1:54 PM EDT
The number of bachelor's degrees earned by women jumped by 70 percent — compared with 5 percent for men — between 1975 and 2001. College graduates toss their caps (file) Photo: David Hecker/Getty Images
Studies show that women are now outnumbering men among college graduates.
At graduation ceremonies across the country this month, colleges handed out 200,000 more degrees to women than men, according to Tom Mortensen, a senior scholar at the
What do you do after the party's over?
Grab some grub. Hit the hay. The party never ends!
"Men don't seem to be getting the same message — that the world is changing and they need to get more education." — Pell Institute's Tom Mortensen
Pell Institute for the Study of Opportunity in Higher Education, who has been studying enrollment trends for the last decade.
"There has been a longtime record of significant progress and gains in education among women," he said in an interview with National Public Radio. Between 1975 and 2001, the number of bachelor's degrees earned by women jumped by 70 percent, compared with a 5 percent climb for men, Mortensen reported in his 2003 study, "What's Wrong With the Guys?" According to the U.S. Census Bureau, the number of females enrolling in college after high school increased by 20 percent from 1967 to 2000, while the number of men enrolling has decreased by 4 percent.
The effects of the trend are also being felt internationally. In 16 countries across the world, female grad rates surpass males, while men earning degrees outnumber women in only six industrialized countries.
In the U.S., the imbalance is most prominent among blacks, Mortensen said. In 2000, black women earned twice as many bachelor's degrees as black men.
"We seem to know how to encourage, motivate and prepare young women for the private-job sector, but there's really no conversation going on about what we ought to be doing to prepare our boys," Mortensen said. "Men don't seem to be getting the same message — that the world is changing and they need to get more education in order to be adequately employed later on in life."
Kevin Carey, director of policy research at Education Trust-West, noted that once enrolled, women are significantly more likely to graduate than men.
"There are essentially no economic opportunities for women without an advanced education," he said. "There are at least some left for men in manual labor or trade-oriented jobs where you can earn a decent living, but uneducated women have no options in this modern economy — I think they know that, and that's why they're more inclined to go [to college]."
Also, college enrollment is at an all-time high of 16 million students in the U.S., according to a March report issued by the National Association for College Admission Counseling. "Some studies suggest up to 80 percent of all high-school graduates will enroll in some type of post-secondary education by the age of 25," Carey noted. In 2004, Asians had the highest continuation rate among ethnic groups — at 76 percent — while whites came in second at 68 percent, Hispanics at 61 percent, and blacks at 61 percent.
There has also been a significant rise in the number of minorities who graduate from college, yet there still remains a significant gap between minorities and whites. "Less than half of all minority students who enroll in college graduate within six years," he said. Contributing factors can include the rising cost of tuition, difficulties adjusting socially, and a lack of academic preparation in high school.
Despite the adversity, Latinos have made significant headway. In the 1990s, the number of bachelor's degrees awarded to Hispanics rose by 105 percent, while the number of master's degrees increased by 128 percent.
In April, Alberto Gonzalez, chairman of the board of the Hispanic Association of Colleges and Universities, introduced legislation to boost grant funding to $175 million for colleges that have at least 25 percent Hispanic enrollment. According to a 2004 report from the Pew Hispanic Center, Latinos are the fastest-growing college-enrollment group and now represent 11 percent of students in higher education.
Still, studies show that many students arrive at college unprepared, and many institutions turn a blind eye to the number of students dropping out. "I think the colleges have gotten complacent because more and more people come in every year, and as long as there are enough of them paying tuition, it doesn't really matter if they don't graduate," Carey said. According to a recent Manhattan Institute report, two-thirds of students leave high school unprepared for higher education.
But in order to combat the problem, many public schools are adopting college-preparatory courses as the default curriculum in order to prepare students for the rigorous coursework of a university.
"Not everyone wants to go to college," Carey said. "But most people do, and everyone should [be equipped] to succeed."
For one young Latina woman's story about heading off to college and how that has created trouble at home for her, check out "My Life Translated: College Dreams," premiering Monday, May 23 at 6:30 p.m. ET.
— Brandee J. Tecson
Good info. Cheers.
Posts: 3423 | From: the jungle - when y'all stop playing games, call me. | Registered: Jul 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters: Sshaun002
quote:
Don't you think that modern civilization has achieved much more than the Egyptians or any other ancient civilization has? Planes, trains, computers, cell phones, skyscrapers, helicopters, rockets, electricity, cars, faxes, stereos, bikes, houses, indoor plumbing, supermarkets, government/freedoms, and the like?
Modern civilization is great, but it is temporary. It is temporary because it was created by unnatural things, i.e., oil and concrete.
Once oil is gone it will decline ,if the effects of gobal warming don't destroy our civilization first. We can see everyday what happen to the structures the Romans made out of concrete. Whereas the pyramid, which is made of stone and aligned expertly remains for all to see today.
Egyptian civilization was a naturalistic civilization whoes technology was depended purely on human genius and innovation and exploiting nature--not a single resource. You have to remember that Egyptian civilization lasted for 5000 years, but no European civilization has lasted 400 years.
.
All civilizations rise and fall with the presence or lack of resources. Lack of arable land, dry seasons, and so forth. Even the pyramids could not have been built without enough stone being available. There are alternatives to oil and there is no shortage of concrete. I don't necessarily think the mark of a great civilization is whether its structures stay intact a few hundred versus a few thousand years.
If you agree that Western civilization began with the Ancient Greeks, than European civilization has lasted well over 400 years - only those in power have changed hands(from the Romans, to the British, to the Spanish to the Americans, and so forth).
In fact current civilization allows us to create resources where they didn't previously exist (ex. Las Vegas is a desert but one would never know it while on the strip). Global warming is debatable. It's not so much how natural or unnatural current civilization is; it's how we choose to use the tools it gives us. We don't have to over fish but we do. We can live without so many goods, but we choose not to.
Current civilization is greater than anything before it because we have absorbed all the knowledge from previous civilizations, built upon them, perfected them, and more.
I agree that modern civilisation doesn't have to be temporary. Alternative sources of energy are being researched. Also, there are many new useful things in modern civilisation that are sustainable (COMMUNICATION SYSTEMS is one chief example), yes, there are improvements over past civilisations. However, I disagree that we have absorbed ALL the knowledge from previous civilisations and perfected them. I think we're FAR from perfecting what we have absorbed and there is SO MUCH MORE to ancient civilisations that meets the eye... especially (I suspect) in the spiritual realm.
Posts: 3423 | From: the jungle - when y'all stop playing games, call me. | Registered: Jul 2006
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quote:Originally posted by herukhuti: You're always SUGGESTING stupid things to people who have not asked for your suggestion.
Not really. I just call it like I see it.
quote:It is now apparent to me why most people tolerate you & your brother circle jerking each other all over this forum. You're obviously a special (needs) basket case.
Woe! Okay I won't even respond to that, although I now wonder about the homosexual contexts of that statement. Don't worry, I won't pry into your personal life.
Moving on...
Posts: 26252 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by nur: Actually men have on average performed higher in IQ tests than women. By a difference of 5 to 4 points.
But you have to wonder where these extra 4 or 5 points come from. Studies show that the male brain tends to be better at spatial and quantitative awareness than the female brain i.e. accessing and measuring physical objects usually by sight alone. Such tests are also part of the IQ test. Then again how reliable are IQ tests altogether? Remember the Bell Curve?
quote:Think about it...look at human progress, and you'll see it's almost impossible to name every single innovation created my males. (i'm not a shovenist) The world's philosophers, and geniuses were mostly men.
Yes but think about it, all of those inventors, geniuses and philosophers come from male-dominated societies. All those men were raised and conditioned to do great things while their female counterparts were raised and conditioned to achieve only domestic duties. Just imagine the countless female innovators and geniuses we would have had if those societies had not suppressed their women
Also of note is that many of the earliest inventions in human history were likely created by females. Inventions like pottery for food and water storage, sowing and weaving for clothes, and the potter's wheel itself which may or may not have given rise to the wheel used for transportaion (the only difference being the axis-- the potter's is vertical while the transport is horizontal). There is even evidence that the calendar system was invented by women and probably even urbanization itself. All of these early great innovations which are perhaps the ancestors of future innovating endeavors were conceived during the Neolithic 'Revolution' i.e. agriculture which definitely was invented by women! But unfortunately many if not all of those societies were completely taken over by men and the females suppressed.
quote:Left handed people are also on average more intelligent than right handed people. (50% of mensa consists of lefties!)
LOL Ironically women have a greater tendency to be left handed than men!
quote:MENSA = an international fellowship organization for people with IQ's in the top 2 percent of the general population.
LOL Are you implying that the organization's name is derived from the word 'men'? The name 'mensa' actually comes from the Latin word for table. The organization was intended to be a sort of round table for those of gifted intellect, regardless of background, can meet and exchange ideas.
Posts: 26252 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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nur must be wondering why his comments have been "attacked" by an egotistical buffoon. While this basket case could have adopted a more civilised tone in disagreeing with nur, he chooses to divide nurs comments and conquer them out of context or by just re-hashing what other posters have already said (and disguises this by padding it with drivel).
Sometimes I wonder how such a high civilisation like Egypt fell into the hands of babarians. But as the Egyptians themselves taught the world, the same principles underly everything in nature (for better or for worse). The RELENTLESSNES of the invading BABARIANS I suspect, is what made the GREAT EGYPTIANS "give in" eventually. Attack after attack from their barbaric neighbours eventually probably made many of them just go somewhere else...
However, some stood their ground & never left EGYPT. Posts: 3423 | From: the jungle - when y'all stop playing games, call me. | Registered: Jul 2006
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Men have ruled and always will. It's no coincidence that all societies are male dominated and have been in every society. Yes, you may have a Queen ruler here and there but it's men who control. Men and women are simply different and more suited to different roles by nature.
quote:Left handed people are also on average more intelligent than right handed people. (50% of mensa consists of lefties!)
LOL Ironically women have a greater tendency to be left handed than men!
quote:MENSA = an international fellowship organization for people with IQ's in the top 2 percent of the general population.
LOL Are you implying that the organization's name is derived from the word 'men'? The name 'mensa' actually comes from the Latin word for table. The organization was intended to be a sort of round table for those of gifted intellect, regardless of background, can meet and exchange ideas. [/QB][/QUOTE]
Actually males are more likely to be left handed.
About mensa, i wasn't trying to imply anything...
Posts: 214 | Registered: Feb 2006
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If what you guys are saying is true, why are men still "innovating" more often than women? We still have more male engineers, scientists, etc also.
When IQ tests are used between gender, there really is no flaw. Both are equal at the society level so why would it be biased?
And dhejuti reagarding the fact that men are better in spatial abilites, wouldn't that be exactly why men averaged more intelligent than women? Maybe the aspects women perform better in, don't fit the criteria for "intelligence"
also the ratio of men to women in mensa is 2:1. In today's society, that says a shitload...
Posts: 214 | Registered: Feb 2006
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quote:Originally posted by herukhuti: nur must be wondering why his comments have been "attacked" by an egotistical buffoon. While this basket case could have adopted a more civilised tone in disagreeing with nur, he chooses to divide nurs comments and conquer them out of context or by just re-hashing what other posters have already said (and disguises this by padding it with drivel).
Sometimes I wonder how such a high civilisation like Egypt fell into the hands of babarians. But as the Egyptians themselves taught the world, the same principles underly everything in nature (for better or for worse). The RELENTLESSNES of the invading BABARIANS I suspect, is what made the GREAT EGYPTIANS "give in" eventually. Attack after attack from their barbaric neighbours eventually probably made many of them just go somewhere else...
However, some stood their ground & never left EGYPT.
I never attacked Nur, on the contrary Nur is seems to be a sensible and intelligent poster unlike some people. So I will continue to acknowledge him as such. YOU on the other hand are dismissed, for the rantings of a troll mean NOTHING.
Posts: 26252 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by sshaun002: Men have ruled and always will. It's no coincidence that all societies are male dominated and have been in every society. Yes, you may have a Queen ruler here and there but it's men who control. Men and women are simply different and more suited to different roles by nature.
Actually this is not really true. There is much evidence from archaeology and early historical records that suggest matriarchial (female dominated) societies were much more common in the past than many people think. In fact most of the dominant societies today like Western/European society were once matriarchal in early times. Did you read my previous post about Neolithic times?
There are even matriarchal societies that still exist today. For example, among the Minangkabau people of Indonesia women are the heads of the families and households and women take part in governing the communities. Today these people are Muslim but they still keep their traditions. And did you know that in Meghalaya Northeast India where there are many people of Tibetan descent (Tibet was once a powerful matriarchate) the society is so female dominated that some men have formed an organization to represent men's rights?!! I could go on and on. There would have been much more matriarchal societies that would have survived today had it not been for foreign influence and domination, usually from the West. Africa is a perfect example. It was from recent European explorers that we have historic evidence of some of the only known tribes in the world to be governed by female chieftains.
quote:Originally posted by nur: Actually males are more likely to be left handed.
You're right. I got confused with the traditional cultural association of left-handedness with women which is strange since left-handedness occurs among men albeit only 2% more last time I checked. 10% of males tend to be left-handed while 8% of females tend to be also. Mind you, these studies have so far only covered Western societies, and scientists still don't fully understand the significance of the trait. Some scientists think it may give people an advantage in things like fighting but it still not certain.
quote:About mensa, i wasn't trying to imply anything...
LOL Sorry. It sounded like you were. You'd be surprised at the misinterpretations people get out of certain names!
quote:If what you guys are saying is true, why are men still "innovating" more often than women? We still have more male engineers, scientists, etc also.
Again, there are 2 reasons, and these are basically the 'nature vs. nurture' theory. One, the nature, could be based on certain inherent traits i.e. male brains are more adept at things like coordination and spatial skills and things that have to do with assessment of physical objects which is why males tend to do better at math. Although I say tend to because there are of course exceptions. Which leads me to the second reason. The nurture reason has to do with culture and I personally think is the greater factor. Because we associate things like mathematical skills and science with men in our society, we condition girls to not get involved with such things whether consiously or not. Only recently are we still starting to see a surge in the number of female engineers and the like but the bias is still there.
As proof that there's a bias, the same brain studies that show men tend to do better at math also show women tend to do better with self-expression and interpretation and i.e. they are better at communication skills such as speech, reading, and writing, yet most of the poets and authors we know of are males!
quote:When IQ tests are used between gender, there really is no flaw. Both are equal at the society level so why would it be biased?
Are you sure there are no flaws in IQ tests between genders? What about 'race'?? Again, I point out the whole 'Bell Curve' fiasco. Also, you assume that both genders are equal in our society, but are they really?? I have already pointed out the extent bias above when it comes to teaching and conditioning children. Remember, it was only a hundred years ago that our society here in the US gave women the right to control reproductive functions let alone the right to vote!
quote:And dhejuti reagarding the fact that men are better in spatial abilites, wouldn't that be exactly why men averaged more intelligent than women? Maybe the aspects women perform better in, don't fit the criteria for "intelligence"
LOL So you consider spatial awareness as an aspect of intelligence, but not communication??! Therein lies the problem. Who decides what's 'intelligence'? Better yet, who created the IQ tests in the first place? I can bet it was only men.
quote:also the ratio of men to women in mensa is 2:1. In today's society, that says a shitload...
LOL The ratio of whites to blacks in Mensa is like, what.. 9:1? Even though a Nigerian man was awarded by Mensa as being "the most brilliant man alive"! That says entire shitloads right there!!
Posts: 26252 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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DJehuti, the CHIEF TROLL who only parrots what the other LEARNED members of this forum have to say (stupidly, he even repeats my insults to him ). I suppose in that sense, you're useful . You are simply kept around for the sake of loudmouthing/barking/regurgitating the details of already discussed topics to the forum newbies.
Posts: 3423 | From: the jungle - when y'all stop playing games, call me. | Registered: Jul 2006
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^^Ignoring the banter above, any replies to my response or the topic at hand?
Posts: 26252 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by sshaun002: Men have ruled and always will. It's no coincidence that all societies are male dominated and have been in every society. Yes, you may have a Queen ruler here and there but it's men who control. Men and women are simply different and more suited to different roles by nature.
Actually this is not really true. There is much evidence from archaeology and early historical records that suggest matriarchial (female dominated) societies were much more common in the past than many people think. In fact most of the dominant societies today like Western/European society were once matriarchal in early times. Did you read my previous post about Neolithic times?
There are even matriarchal societies that still exist today. For example, among the Minangkabau people of Indonesia women are the heads of the families and households and women take part in governing the communities. Today these people are Muslim but they still keep their traditions. And did you know that in Meghalaya Northeast India where there are many people of Tibetan descent (Tibet was once a powerful matriarchate) the society is so female dominated that some men have formed an organization to represent men's rights?!! I could go on and on. There would have been much more matriarchal societies that would have survived today had it not been for foreign influence and domination, usually from the West. Africa is a perfect example. It was from recent European explorers that we have historic evidence of some of the only known tribes in the world to be governed by female chieftains.
quote:Originally posted by nur: Actually males are more likely to be left handed.
You're right. I got confused with the traditional cultural association of left-handedness with women which is strange since left-handedness occurs among men albeit only 2% more last time I checked. 10% of males tend to be left-handed while 8% of females tend to be also. Mind you, these studies have so far only covered Western societies, and scientists still don't fully understand the significance of the trait. Some scientists think it may give people an advantage in things like fighting but it still not certain.
quote:About mensa, i wasn't trying to imply anything...
LOL Sorry. It sounded like you were. You'd be surprised at the misinterpretations people get out of certain names!
quote:If what you guys are saying is true, why are men still "innovating" more often than women? We still have more male engineers, scientists, etc also.
Again, there are 2 reasons, and these are basically the 'nature vs. nurture' theory. One, the nature, could be based on certain inherent traits i.e. male brains are more adept at things like coordination and spatial skills and things that have to do with assessment of physical objects which is why males tend to do better at math. Although I say tend to because there are of course exceptions. Which leads me to the second reason. The nurture reason has to do with culture and I personally think is the greater factor. Because we associate things like mathematical skills and science with men in our society, we condition girls to not get involved with such things whether consiously or not. Only recently are we still starting to see a surge in the number of female engineers and the like but the bias is still there.
As proof that there's a bias, the same brain studies that show men tend to do better at math also show women tend to do better with self-expression and interpretation and i.e. they are better at communication skills such as speech, reading, and writing, yet most of the poets and authors we know of are males!
quote:When IQ tests are used between gender, there really is no flaw. Both are equal at the society level so why would it be biased?
Are you sure there are no flaws in IQ tests between genders? What about 'race'?? Again, I point out the whole 'Bell Curve' fiasco. Also, you assume that both genders are equal in our society, but are they really?? I have already pointed out the extent bias above when it comes to teaching and conditioning children. Remember, it was only a hundred years ago that our society here in the US gave women the right to control reproductive functions let alone the right to vote!
quote:And dhejuti reagarding the fact that men are better in spatial abilites, wouldn't that be exactly why men averaged more intelligent than women? Maybe the aspects women perform better in, don't fit the criteria for "intelligence"
LOL So you consider spatial awareness as an aspect of intelligence, but not communication??! Therein lies the problem. Who decides what's 'intelligence'? Better yet, who created the IQ tests in the first place? I can bet it was only men.
quote:also the ratio of men to women in mensa is 2:1. In today's society, that says a shitload...
LOL The ratio of whites to blacks in Mensa is like, what.. 9:1? Even though a Nigerian man was awarded by Mensa as being "the most brilliant man alive"! That says entire shitloads right there!!
i don't really know how to break apart quotes, so i'll just respond the best way i can.
Djehuti are you well aware complexity of governments and societies are a sign of high intelligence? Those societies you mentioned that were dominated by females are rare for a reason.(males eventually dominated due to aforementioned reasons)
Now the fact that men created the IQ tests is probably irrelevent. They didn't create those tests with the intentions of giving women lower scores. What's bias are the tests done among different races, ethnic groups, etc because of so many factors such as language.
If you take a white male, and a white female, there is no bias since the two are essentially equal. In fact, the male is proably more likely disadvantaged. It's interesting how men are predisposed to be the "tough" guy, the one who will resort to violence, and all these other stereotypes. Women on the other hand are given sterotypes that do BENEFIT! (socializing probably contributed to better communication)
Men are biologically given those spatial abilities.
About the nigerian man, that does say a lot. But take into consideration the fact that he is a not only a male, but resides in one of the most disadvantaged continents in history. Rarely will you see an african reach the potential of her or his intelligence because of that. (the comment about how the white and black ratio i understand, but is irrelevent since we're dealing with genders, not races)
In fact that sort of reinforces my past comments!
The fact that one of the best poets, and authors are males is most likely due to intelligence. I think i've seen somewhere that male intelligence varies greatly. (much more distribution of geniuses and just plain idiots among males)
I am not aware of the best mathmetician/engineer being a female. (despite much more attempts at pushing females than males )
There can't be an excuse for every aspect of why men dominated and still dominate society today.
please kepp in mind those IQ tests are modern so i see no reason to call them biased toward females. (knowing today, they probably added more Q's that benefit females)
You don't know how many times i hear a girl ask so many questions in school over a mathematical concept VERY easy to comprehend...(i'm not basing arguement over this)
Posts: 214 | Registered: Feb 2006
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i don't really know how to break apart quotes, so i'll just respond the best way i can.
Djehuti are you well aware complexity of governments and societies are a sign of high intelligence? Those societies you mentioned that were dominated by females are rare for a reason.(males eventually dominated due to aforementioned reasons)...
Speaking of which, I agree with the “rare” part, a simple reason why one cannot make a full assessment as to whether ruling female elites would do any different from their male counterparts, in terms of the types of policy making that spur corruption and violence across the globe. I suppose one can say that, in this day and age, the few who have thus far managed to attain high administrative [i.e. governmental] status and have had an apparent considerable influence in policy making, have demonstrated so, in more or less the same manner as their male counterparts. In other words, they've presided over policies that have tendencies towards corruption and violence, not much different from their male counterparts. Perhaps, these women of high status were and are trying to demonstrate that they are just as capable as their male counterparts, and perhaps, the case would be different, if there were far more ruling female elites than the status quo; a question to ponder.
As for the "…dominated by females are rare for a reason" part of that comment, I see it as nothing more than a product of male chauvinism [that is often tolerated by women around the world to varying degrees], with the undertone of muscularity [actually an effect of sexual dimorphism] rather than intelligence, i.e. one gender being more intelligent over the other. Now of course, stating the latter, doesn’t imply that males and females think in the very same manner, biologically or socially speaking.
Posts: 5964 | Registered: Jan 2005
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Everywhere I go, I always encounter a Nigerian-hating ho.
-- a Nigerian saying.
It doesn't occur to some people that Nigerians are about 20% of Africans and therefore have a higher probability of "showing up" (compared to an African of another nationality) in any particular situation where Africans are involved. Posts: 3423 | From: the jungle - when y'all stop playing games, call me. | Registered: Jul 2006
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^^ Hey Herukhuti, I hope you are calling me a Nigerian hater! I have Nigerian friends and if you were paying attention I made a positive reference about a Nigerian man.
quote:Originally posted by nur: Djehuti if you look at my previous post in this thread you will see that society today is biased. However, the bias seems toward males...nvm ill just give you link. http://www.livescience.com/othernews/060718_illiterate_boys.html
^Interesting that you point this out. Of course the same gender based studies that show males tend to do better at math show that females tend to be better at reading or writing. So is it all that surprising that there exists a bias against boys performing well in literature as there is a bias against girls performing well in math??
The bias works both ways. Even today there is still the stereotype and expectaion of boys excelling at math and girls excelling at reading. If I have two children, say twins, of different sexes, should I then give a novel to my daughter but math problems to my son?? It is the whole dilema of the old 'self-fulfilling prophecy' that is root of this issue.
Ironically the question remains, if women on average tend to do better at communication and literature than men, then why is it all of the great orators (speakers), poets, authors, and other writers men?? Why is it that in certain countries around the world, illiteracy rates are 2-3 times greater for females than males??
I'll even go a step further.. If cooking has been traditionally a woman's role, then why are all the greatest 'chefs' and indeed 'master chefs' all males.. even though practically all of the admit that they learned their skills from the women in their families??!..
quote:i don't really know how to break apart quotes, so i'll just respond the best way i can.
Easy, just leave the quotes you want to reply to while deleting the others.
quote:Djehuti are you well aware complexity of governments and societies are a sign of high intelligence? Those societies you mentioned that were dominated by females are rare for a reason.(males eventually dominated due to aforementioned reasons)
Did you not read my initial post on the Neolithic era and the rise of early civilizations. Given certain archaeological as well as historical evidence, there is reason for many scholars to believe that practically all the worlds first civilizations were matriarchal or matrifocal in culture. The reason why patriarchy or male domination prevailed is still not clear, but their domination certainly had nothing to do with the development of complex culture but rather they merely inherited the infrastructure. Also, matriarchal cultures today are not as "rare" as you think.
quote:Now the fact that men created the IQ tests is probably irrelevent. They didn't create those tests with the intentions of giving women lower scores. What's bias are the tests done among different races, ethnic groups, etc because of so many factors such as language.
Not necessarily. Again, that fact that these tests were invented by men is relevant. As you have already pointed out, there are certain beliefs and doctrines ingrained in our society that condition us a certain way. I certainly hope that the men who created the test had no conscious intentions of giving women a disadvantage, but again I ask what aspects did they consider as "intelligence"?? I believe once this question is answered, we can truly know how flawed or concise the whole IQ test is. You yourself just assumed that certain qualities like spatial awareness that males are more advantaged are intelligent but females aspects (communication) is not?
quote:If you take a white male, and a white female, there is no bias since the two are essentially equal. In fact, the male is proably more likely disadvantaged. It's interesting how men are predisposed to be the "tough" guy, the one who will resort to violence, and all these other stereotypes. Women on the other hand are given sterotypes that do BENEFIT! (socializing probably contributed to better communication)
LOL The male disadvantaged, how?! You previously said males tend to do better on IQ tests than females! What benificial stereotypes other than 'non-violence' are given to women? As for the better communication, recent neurological studies on females brains have proven this, but if you believe this was due 'socializing' couldn't we say the same about men in better mathematical skills??
quote:Men are biologically given those spatial abilities.
Just as women are biologically given those communication abilities. These studies show that women are not only better at writing and reading comprehension but are also better as word usage and are more perceptive to more subtle forms of communication like body language and facial expression. (of course the downside is they talk too damn much! ) Does this mean we should tell boys to neglect communication skills and tell girls to neglect their math skills?? There are females that are good in math just as there are males that are good in communication. For example, the inventor of American sign language was a man. Thus, all of this brings us back to the old 'Nature vs. Nurture' issue. Which is it, biology or social conditioning? How about a little of both?
quote:About the nigerian man, that does say a lot. But take into consideration the fact that he is a not only a male, but resides in one of the most disadvantaged continents in history. Rarely will you see an african reach the potential of her or his intelligence because of that. (the comment about how the white and black ratio i understand, but is irrelevent since we're dealing with genders, not races)
Actually despite the old racist beliefs of low IQs among people of color, would you believe that Africans are among the most educated and now hold elite professions in Western countries not just the US but all over Europe?!! An example.
And anyway, it does prove my point because Mensa is a Western organization and blacks are a minority in the West. And one thing you haven't taken into account are the ratio of Nigerian males vs. females who travel to the West as well as gender relations back in Nigeria. All of these factors need to count if one is to see the big picture.
quote:In fact that sort of reinforces my past comments!
Not really. --If you can see all the factors involved.
quote:The fact that one of the best poets, and authors are males is most likely due to intelligence. I think i've seen somewhere that male intelligence varies greatly. (much more distribution of geniuses and just plain idiots among males)
So you don't think that females being suppressed and kept from the attention of the general public as the reason why the best poets and authors in history (Western history to exact) are males??
For example, are you aware that some of the best authors in Europe who thought of as male were actually females writing under pseudonyms because of the reasons cited above?
quote:I am not aware of the best mathmetician/engineer being a female. (despite much more attempts at pushing females than males )
LOL I never said there were attempt to push more females than males into engineering only that there has been a recent upsurge in the number of female engineers. There is still the bias that women can't do well in the needes skills for the profession; just ask any female engineer.
quote:There can't be an excuse for every aspect of why men dominated and still dominate society today.
There is, and it depends on the society you speak of. Again, matriarchal cultures are not as rare as you think.
quote:please kepp in mind those IQ tests are modern so i see no reason to call them biased toward females. (knowing today, they probably added more Q's that benefit females)
Really? So you think modern men have no biases? Again, just ask female engineers. And again you make an assumption that they somhow added Qs to 'cater' to women.
quote:You don't know how many times i hear a girl ask so many questions in school over a mathematical concept VERY easy to comprehend...(i'm not basing arguement over this)
YOUR experience not mine. You don't know how many times I've heard a boy ask the same thing to a fellow tutor (I work part time as one) who is a black female still in her 20s and just earned her doctorate. But to each his own. Posts: 26252 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by nur: [qb] Interesting that you point this out. Of course the same gender based studies that show males tend to do better at math show that females tend to be better at reading or writing. So is it all that surprising that there exists a bias against boys performing well in literature as there is a bias against girls performing well in math??
That article dosn't only apply to literature, but all subjects of education...also female aren't disadvantaged at all, especially in areas such as math. (more like encouraged)
I myself find it surprising males perform better in math despite all the bias.
How in the hell can you be biased in teaching math?! In literature there could be unintentional biasism towards males, mainly because;
1) the teachers are female. (it could offer as a distraction)
2) a lack of connection due to the fact that female teachers usually will use examples that cater to the females interests. (you won't hear video game characters i assure you)
3) The fact that males don't express feelings, show emotion, and other things that coincidentally offer an advantage in literature!
Math/science on the other hand, only involves the teaching of concepts in an enviornment that gives NO gender the advantage. (unless biologically speaking)
Can you explain how exactly males are given the advantage in such areas? The fact remains that females are being pushed in all subjects, while males are basically left to cope with the world without much help and must rely on sheer intelligence. (some make it, some don't)
quote:The bias works both ways. Even today there is still the stereotype and expectaion of boys excelling at math and girls excelling at reading. If I have two children, say twins, of different sexes, should I then give a novel to my daughter but math problems to my son?? It is the whole dilema of the old 'self-fulfilling prophecy' that is root of this issue.
No it does not work both ways...if there's a sterotype it would be "be tough" "play football" and "street race". Oh and another one "READING SUCKS"
quote:Ironically the question remains, if women on average tend to do better at communication and literature than men, then why is it all of the great orators (speakers), poets, authors, and other writers men?? Why is it that in certain countries around the world, illiteracy rates are 2-3 times greater for females than males??
Mainly because of the reasons you mentioned, and mine. Remember studies also show that the range of intelligence is much greater in males. There are many complete idiots, and at the same time more geniuses. Regarding the illiteracy rates, irrelevant...i doubt one of those women took the IQ test. (or would even be able to, since they're illiterate)
quote:I'll even go a step further.. If cooking has been traditionally a woman's role, then why are all the greatest 'chefs' and indeed 'master chefs' all males.. even though practically all of the admit that they learned their skills from the women in their families??!..
A 5-4 point difference is greater than you think.
quote:[qb]Did you not read my initial post on the Neolithic era and the rise of early civilizations. Given certain archaeological as well as historical evidence, there is reason for many scholars to believe that practically all the worlds first civilizations were matriarchal or matrifocal in culture.
Are those theories the mainstream theory? Even if they were matriarchal societies that dosn't matter. (Was the ruler of the sumerians a female? no)
quote:[qb] Again, that fact that these tests were invented by men is relevant. As you have already pointed out, there are certain beliefs and doctrines ingrained in our society that condition us a certain way. I certainly hope that the men who created the test had no conscious intentions of giving women a disadvantage, but again I ask what aspects did they consider as "intelligence"?? I believe once this question is answered, we can truly know how flawed or concise the whole IQ test is. You yourself just assumed that certain qualities like spatial awareness that males are more advantaged are intelligent but females aspects (communication) is not?
Unfortunately beliefs and doctrines proved fatal to males, but good for females.
It was a wrong assumption on my part. BUT, since communication is an aspect of intelligence, why wouldn't it be on the IQ test? Communication skills ARE tested on the IQ test, yet males performed higher scores...
What defines intelligence probably isn't exact, but I don't foresee females out performing males, unless they added emotion oriented questions to the tests.
quote:[qb]
LOL The male disadvantaged, how?! You previously said males tend to do better on IQ tests than females! What benificial stereotypes other than 'non-violence' are given to women? As for the better communication, recent neurological studies on females brains have proven this, but if you believe this was due 'socializing' couldn't we say the same about men in better mathematical skills??
...so someone is automatically considered incapable due to disadvantages? The fact that women are raised to be less violent branches out into tons more areas where males are disadvantaged! Also, how on earth can someone logically and biologically ingrain math skills into the male brain without it happening in an evolutionary course? (so no it can't apply to males)
Anyways, you are right. Females probably attained those comunication skills the same way males attained their "mathematical" skills.
But djehuti, wouldn't you think intelligence is better related to matters that involve logic, rationality and other areas that men outperform females in? Communication could mean a variety of things. (ranging from emotion, and expressing feelings) Mathematial abilities, logic, and rationality definintley are closer to what intelligence is than emotion! (based on mainstream theory, which must be taken into consideration in this discussion! You cannot bring theories agreed upon a few people in such a discussion)
quote:[qb]Just as women are biologically given those communication abilities. These studies show that women are not only better at writing and reading comprehension but are also better as word usage and are more perceptive to more subtle forms of communication like body language and facial expression. (of course the downside is they talk too damn much! ) Does this mean we should tell boys to neglect communication skills and tell girls to neglect their math skills?? There are females that are good in math just as there are males that are good in communication. For example, the inventor of American sign language was a man. Thus, all of this brings us back to the old 'Nature vs. Nurture' issue. Which is it, biology or social conditioning? How about a little of both?
I believe we raise both females and males to their fullest potential, despite biological disadvantages.
I agree with you on the nature vs. nurture. But males have been given negative nurture which in turn deprives them of that nature.
quote:[qb]Actually despite the old racist beliefs of low IQs among people of color, would you believe that Africans are among the most educated and now hold elite professions in Western countries not just the US but all over Europe?!!
The time they were given such IQ tests that depicted their "inferior intelligence" was the time where africans/blacks and virtually NO equal rights! (disadvantaged)
I repeat, the females that were given those IQ tests weren't in the times where they stayed in homes all day.
And anyway, it does prove my point because Mensa is a Western organization and blacks are a minority in the West. And one thing you haven't taken into account are the ratio of Nigerian males vs. females who travel to the West as well as gender relations back in Nigeria. All of these factors need to count if one is to see the big picture.[/QUOTE]I don't need to take into account anything. The fact that in mensa the ratio of men to women is 2:1 says ENOUGH...and "western" society currently offers women equal rights unrivaled by other regions!
quote:[qb]Not really. --If you can see all the factors involved.
All factors don't need to be involved. One nigerian man in mensa dosn't constitute any sort of disadvantage to females, or any other goal.
quote:[qb]So you don't think that females being suppressed and kept from the attention of the general public as the reason why the best poets and authors in history (Western history to exact) are males??
I believe it was a combination of nature and nurture. (i assure you though, nurture alone wouldn't make many great male poets/authors)
quote:[qb] I never said there were attempt to push more females than males into engineering only that there has been a recent upsurge in the number of female engineers. There is still the bias that women can't do well in the needes skills for the profession.
I never said you did. That recent upsurge is due to the equality women have aquired. (but that upsurge hasn't created the best engineer/mathematician in history)
^ Clearly an example of nurture alone taking it's course.
quote:[qb] Really? So you think modern men have no biases? Again, just ask female engineers. And again you make an assumption that they somhow added Qs to 'cater' to women.
My "assumption" was a joke...
Again, irrelevent since we're talking about biases towards IQ and not whether someone is competent to be an engineer based on gender.(I am yet to see a female in those studies complaining about those "biases")
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quote:Originally posted by nur: That article dosn't only apply to literature, but all subjects of education...also female aren't disadvantaged at all, especially in areas such as math. (more like encouraged)
True. Nowadays, at least in early education from elementary to highschool more girls are academically doing better in math and science than boys. But how do you explain this? You mean to say that there is an actual bias against boys? That boys are expected less in these areas despite just a decade ago math and science were dominated by males??
Now that girls are doing better academically than boys, does this mean girls are smarter? That's certainly what people thought back then when colleges back then only had males!
And speaking of college education, why is it that there are less females with PhDs even though they are qualified for it?
quote:I myself find it surprising males perform better in math despite all the bias.
Again, I say the neurological studies show that males tend to do better in math than females. This tendency is based on the fact tha males tend to have better spatial awareness than females. However math apparently involves more than spatial things. New studies show females use different parts of their brain to solve math problems than males. Which means this whole thing about intelligence difference between the sexes to be more complicated.
quote:How in the hell can you be biased in teaching math?! In literature there could be unintentional biasism towards males, mainly because;
1) the teachers are female. (it could offer as a distraction)
2) a lack of connection due to the fact that female teachers usually will use examples that cater to the females interests. (you won't hear video game characters i assure you)
3) The fact that males don't express feelings, show emotion, and other things that coincidentally offer an advantage in literature!
Math/science on the other hand, only involves the teaching of concepts in an enviornment that gives NO gender the advantage. (unless biologically speaking)
Can you explain how exactly males are given the advantage in such areas? The fact remains that females are being pushed in all subjects, while males are basically left to cope with the world without much help and must rely on sheer intelligence. (some make it, some don't)
LOL Well there was a bias in teaching math back then. Teachers whether male or female expected less from girls when it comes to mathematics, but as you have shown that has all changed. So my question now is should these trends in academic performance be taken as a sign of intelligence?? If so, does this mean boys were smarter back then, but girls are smarter now?
quote:No it does not work both ways...if there's a sterotype it would be "be tough" "play football" and "street race". Oh and another one "READING SUCKS"
LOL That would depend. There are stereotypes for Asians like me to be brainy yet wimpy and unatheletic--basically nerdy. I am brainy but I'm no nerd. I played sports in Highschool and I'm definitely no wuss. The whole stereotype of being tough yet dumb fell to atheletes, but I know plenty of atheletes who are not dumb. And what about boys who don't play sports at all?? You seem to be going by YOUR personal experiences only but not others. Have you asked other males how they are percieved? What about females? By the way, the reason why I'm brainy is because my (Asian) mother raised me that way as many Asian parents do. You cite sources concering academic trends here in the US but what about other countries?? Again, do these academic trends show signs of intelligence?
quote:Mainly because of the reasons you mentioned, and mine. Remember studies also show that the range of intelligence is much greater in males.
You are beginning to talk in circles. You say that the range of intelligence is greater in males, but exactly what factors count as intelligence? Also, I already explained why most of the great orators, poets, and authors in Western history were male. It's because Western history was male dominated. Traditionally women were not expected to be famous or well known. Public life was reserved from males while females were restricted to the more mundane private life i.e. the home. Sure there were a few females who were able to rise pass these restrictions but they were the exception. Again, there has been a recent upsurge in the number of female engineers most likely to the reasons you cited about girls in the education system today. Do you think this would have been possible 40 or 100 years ago?? Women weren't even working outside the home then, so how can they be able to become public figures like the "great men" of history?
quote:There are many complete idiots, and at the same time more geniuses. Regarding the illiteracy rates, irrelevant...i doubt one of those women took the IQ test. (or would even be able to, since they're illiterate)
The same brain studies that show men tend to do better in math say women tend to do better in reading, but I doubt any of that would have mattered since those countries where girls are more illiterate are again male dominated.
quote:A 5-4 point difference is greater than you think.
And what has that got to do with my question regarding the world's chefs and where they got their skills from (women)??
quote:Are those theories the mainstream theory? Even if they were matriarchal societies that dosn't matter. (Was the ruler of the sumerians a female? no)
Yes, these theories are being considered by the mainstream. It's true that Sumerian rulers were males since Sumer was a male dominated society , but what alot of people don't know is much of Sumerian civilization was created by a people who preceeded the Sumerians known as the Ubaidians. These Ubaidians were the indigenous people of Mesopotamia while the Sumerians came from someplace else. Was the ruler of the Ubaidians male? We don't know but judging by the artifacts they left and certain clues in the later Sumerian mythology, females must have had a more prominent position there as they did with all the first civilizations. There is evidence of this in the first cities of Asia Minor in Catal Huyuk and even evidence of it in Crete and parts of the Aegean. We also have evidence of it in early China. Also, why is it the earliest innovations were most likely created by women? Things like pottery, weaving, and even the wheel whose earliest known form was the potter's wheel are domestic machines made for domestic living. Even today in non-modern societies, these products are constructed by women. As primitive as these machines may have been, it takes some form of mathematics and engineering skills to create such things.
quote:Unfortunately beliefs and doctrines proved fatal to males, but good for females.
LOL You know what your argument remind me of? They remind me of a white guy and I dare say racist white guy who believes that whites are superior to blacks but that nowadays blacks are doing better than whites (specifically him) due to beliefs and "doctrines" prevalent now that didn't exist back then, like affirmative action!
quote:It was a wrong assumption on my part. BUT, since communication is an aspect of intelligence, why wouldn't it be on the IQ test? Communication skills ARE tested on the IQ test, yet males performed higher scores...
Which is why I asked what is exact nature of these tests?? Whites also score higher on IQ tests than blacks and Middle Easterners. Yet you assume that there exists cultural bias, but not gender bias on these tests. Why is that?
quote:What defines intelligence probably isn't exact, but I don't foresee females out performing males, unless they added emotion oriented questions to the tests.
LOL I rest my case. Your gender bias becomes evident in the above statement right here.
quote:...so someone is automatically considered incapable due to disadvantages? The fact that women are raised to be less violent branches out into tons more areas where males are disadvantaged!
So what are you saying, that people who are violent can't do as well in reading?? As far as being 'raised' to be less violent, that depends on the society. There are societies out there raise females in quite a different way but nevertheless the larger prefrontal cortex in females brains allows them to control primitive instincts like violence moreso than males. Does this mean I would expect my daughter to be more civilized yet my son to be a savage?! LOL
Besides, I don't know what violence has anything to do with intelligence. Even the most violent murderers proved to be intelligent, but since most of these were males that was to be expected huh? LOL
quote:Also, how on earth can someone logically and biologically ingrain math skills into the male brain without it happening in an evolutionary course? (so no it can't apply to males) It's not really math skills that have been biologically ingrained so much as spatial skill. Biologists think these spatial skills came from the fact that males were the hunters of prehistoric society. Spatial skills are vital in successful capture of prey; therefore this trait is linked more so to males than females.
[quote]Anyways, you are right. Females probably attained those comunication skills the same way males attained their "mathematical" skills.
If you mean biologically, does this mean that biology is the end all then? That we should expect males to have good communication skills and females to have good mathematical skills? There are female engineers and mathematicians, you know, just as there are male linguists and orators.
quote:But djehuti, wouldn't you think intelligence is better related to matters that involve logic, rationality and other areas that men outperform females in? Communication could mean a variety of things. (ranging from emotion, and expressing feelings) Mathematial abilities, logic, and rationality definintley are closer to what intelligence is than emotion! (based on mainstream theory, which must be taken into consideration in this discussion! You cannot bring theories agreed upon a few people in such a discussion)
^Finally an excellent question that is not circular. I agree that logic and reason are important factors in intelligence, but are you saying females do not possess such capicity and are only emotional creatures? Are you saying communication entails emotions only but not logic? I have heard of the stereotype that women are 'hysterical', yet most hysteria I've seen at least personally comes from men usually in sports events. Remember what I said about the prefrontal cortex in women's brains? Talk about women being less logical!
quote:I believe we raise both females and males to their fullest potential, despite biological disadvantages.
I agree with you on the nature vs. nurture. But males have been given negative nurture which in turn deprives them of that nature.
You are now starting to make more sense. Again, what you say depends on the culture so it varies from society to society but yes I say again that there are biases in our society against both males and females.
quote:The time they were given such IQ tests that depicted their "inferior intelligence" was the time where africans/blacks and virtually NO equal rights! (disadvantaged)
I repeat, the females that were given those IQ tests weren't in the times where they stayed in homes all day.
True, but again it is these IQ tests themselves that you must examine and not just gender trends. Is there something about these tests that give males an advantage over females. You said it yourself that intelligence has yet to be measured precisely.
quote:I don't need to take into account anything. The fact that in mensa the ratio of men to women is 2:1 says ENOUGH...and "western" society currently offers women equal rights unrivaled by other regions!
True but exactly what is the exact process in which a person can enroll or be initiated into Mensa? There are more more males with PhDs than females also yet studies show many females are eligible for these degrees but for some reason or another they don't get them.
quote:All factors don't need to be involved. One nigerian man in mensa dosn't constitute any sort of disadvantage to females, or any other goal.
It sure doesn't but we don't know all the factors as to why not many females are in mensa or why many Asians aren't in it also.
quote:I believe it was a combination of nature and nurture. (i assure you though, nurture alone wouldn't make many great male poets/authors)
I assure you it does, considering that again females were not expected for "greatness" in history, at least Western history whatever their potential maybe.
quote:I never said you did. That recent upsurge is due to the equality women have aquired. (but that upsurge hasn't created the best engineer/mathematician in history)
LOL Of course history takes time and it's only been recently, and very recently that there are such a high number of female engineers and mathematicians. Who knows, maybe in some time perhaps within our lifetime engineering and science will be revolutionized due to a female or 2.
quote:^ Clearly an example of nurture alone taking it's course.
The same could be said of Europe's great poets and authors being mostly male.
quote:My "assumption" was a joke...
So how much of what you say can I take seriously?
quote:Again, irrelevent since we're talking about biases towards IQ and not whether someone is competent to be an engineer based on gender.(I am yet to see a female in those studies complaining about those "biases")
The IQ and engineering bias are all part of the same problem.
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Actually the part of the pre-frontal cortex of the brain responsible for inhibitions especially the control of violent impulses is much larger in females than in males. Which tends to make women resort to violence much less than men. Unfortunately women tend to feel emotions of anger more frequently and for longer periods than men.
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