I know Canaanite isn't the correct term so when you see the word can you just replace it with "Levantine" because these aren't my pictures, just something I found off Instagram.
“When Ramesses II and Hattusili III concluded their peace treaty, the gods of both countries witnessed the arrangement. The Hittites saw the storm god as their supreme god and acknowledged a storm god in every major city of the state. All of those appeared in the treaty as written out by the Hittites. When the Egyptians translated this version into their own language to carve it on temple walls, they did not want to use the name Teshub, however, but instead used the name of the archetypal god of foreign lands, Seth. Thus appear:
"‘Seth, the lord of the sky; Seth of Hatti; Seth of the city of Arinna; Seth of the city of Zippalanda; Seth of the city of Pitrik; Seth of the city of Hissaspa; Seth of the [city of Hurma]; [Seth of the city of Uda]; Seth of the city of Sa[pinuwa]; [Seth] of thunder (?); Seth of the city of Sahphina.’ “The idea that the Egyptian pantheon covered the entire universe was easily preserved.”2"
If this is true, then it does prove that the god Seth expanded outward into the levant as Doug stated.
"Likewise, the association of Set with Baal came about most likely because of the Egyptian influence moving northward, not because Set was introduced by Asiatics into Egypt. Going back to what I said about the political, cultural, and religious basis for the dynasty itself, it would be LUDICROUS to have the Pharoah, fighting AGAINST Asiatics, but WORSHIPPING Asiatic gods. Another piece of pure nonsense."
But there's still the question, Why would Rameses ii accept these foreigners, gods. Why would he mix religions?
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I know Canaanite isn't the correct term so when you see the word can you just replace it with "Levantine" because these aren't my pictures, just something I found off Instagram.
“When Ramesses II and Hattusili III concluded their peace treaty, the gods of both countries witnessed the arrangement. The Hittites saw the storm god as their supreme god and acknowledged a storm god in every major city of the state. All of those appeared in the treaty as written out by the Hittites. When the Egyptians translated this version into their own language to carve it on temple walls, they did not want to use the name Teshub, however, but instead used the name of the archetypal god of foreign lands, Seth. Thus appear:
"‘Seth, the lord of the sky; Seth of Hatti; Seth of the city of Arinna; Seth of the city of Zippalanda; Seth of the city of Pitrik; Seth of the city of Hissaspa; Seth of the [city of Hurma]; [Seth of the city of Uda]; Seth of the city of Sa[pinuwa]; [Seth] of thunder (?); Seth of the city of Sahphina.’ “The idea that the Egyptian pantheon covered the entire universe was easily preserved.”2"
If this is true, then it does prove that the god Seth expanded outward into the levant as Doug stated.
"Likewise, the association of Set with Baal came about most likely because of the Egyptian influence moving northward, not because Set was introduced by Asiatics into Egypt. Going back to what I said about the political, cultural, and religious basis for the dynasty itself, it would be LUDICROUS to have the Pharoah, fighting AGAINST Asiatics, but WORSHIPPING Asiatic gods. Another piece of pure nonsense."
But there's still the question, Why would Rameses ii accept these foreigners, gods. Why would he mix religions?
We know that various deities from other lands were assimilated into the cosmology of the Nile Valley Civilization. However, depicting Set with "Asiatic" attributes is not saying that Set originated in Baal worship. It could mean they were trying to assimilate Baal into the religious and cultural practices of the state to appeal to Asiatic populations. Just like the text says above, they did not use the term "Baal" indicating that Set was the preeminent deity.
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quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: tiny.cc/a2kytz
Do these foreigners have any tie-in with the Hairpu or Hebrews?
-------------------- Note: I am not an "Egyptologist" as claimed by some still bitter, defeated, trolls creating fake profiles and posts elsewhere. Hapless losers, you still fail. My output of hard data debunking racist nonsense has actually INCREASED since you began.. Posts: 5905 | From: The Hammer | Registered: Aug 2008
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Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
At this late stage of the game it's well known Habiru =/= Hebrew. That is, if one accepts academia over popular 'history'. Being a mishmosh of lowclass and underclass individuals of various ethnicities, they surely had some language of Canaan/Hebrew speakers.
posted
To put it in full context, the rise of the 19th dynasty in the first place was due to the decay of the foreign relations and defensive posture as a result of the "heretic" Akhenaton. So his death was likely due to suspicious causes and his wife, giving rise to the reign of Tutankhamun. This is not a simplistic rejection of the solar deity the Aten as opposed to the all the other ways Akhenaten went against previous tradition including foreign relations. Tutankhamun was born as a result of incest between Akhenaton and his sister Meritaten, ruling out the possibility of Tutankhamun being the child of a Mittani princess. And this old tradition continued into later dynasties. Being a child, Tutankhamun obviously was not powerful and his death at a young age likely was possibly due to suspicious causes as well. Then the vizier Ay took over the throne and it is he that chose the ruler that would begin the next dynasty in the Nile Valley, Seti. This is the Seti referred to in the year 400 stela as "leader of the Medjay" and follower of "Set the Nubti" as the name Seti is derived from the Set the deity. (Keep in mind that the gold trade in the South around Nubt was always associated with groups in the Eastern Desert, such as the Medjay. I have posted the maps of the mining sites going back thousands of years many times.) One of the primary reasons for Ay to choose such a person with a military legacy and heritage was in order to stem the flow of Asiatics and others in the North.
So from the new king arose Dynasty 19. And from the beginning they focused on defending the North by moving to the north and supervising the construction of various fortresses and palaces. And it is in this context that most people get confused about the nature of the 19th dynasty and whether it had "Asiatic" roots or not. Over time the control over of the 19th dynasty over the entire nation became weaker and there are various theories around this and some of it could have been due to the rise of various Asiatic and foreigners to important positions within the administration. And as a result in the late 19th dynasty was a time of chaos and it is during this time that a new ruler ascended to the throne who was not directly related to the previous dynasty, Setnakht, beginning the 20th dynasty. A stela was found at Elephantine describing the chaos of the time and his reign was relatively short, only lasting 4 years. Also note the reference to the name Set in the name, which probably is again a southern connection not an Asiatic one. And from him came Rameses III, the last strong ruler of the Ramessid dynasty.
Overall, one of the biggest things that is discussed related to the time is that enemies of Setnakht on the throne sought help from "outsiders" to oust him from the throne and the question becomes why such chaos had taken over in this era. I believe the ultimate root of all of this is in the fact that the Nile had shrunk and was no longer able to sustain the population required to allow the Nation to protect its borders.
quote: Final years of power Main article: Twentieth Dynasty of Egypt
The last "great" pharaoh from the New Kingdom is widely considered to be Ramesses III, a Twentieth Dynasty pharaoh who reigned several decades after Ramesses II.[21]
In the eighth year of his reign, the Sea Peoples invaded Egypt by land and sea. Ramesses III defeated them in two great land and sea battles (the Battle of Djahy and the Battle of the Delta). He incorporated them as subject peoples and is thought to have settled them in Southern Canaan, although there is evidence that they forced their way into Canaan. Their presence in Canaan may have contributed to the formation of new states, such as Philistia, in this region after the collapse of the Egyptian Empire. He later was compelled to fight invading Libyan tribesmen in two major campaigns in Egypt's Western Delta in his sixth year and eleventh year respectively.[22]
The heavy cost of this warfare slowly drained Egypt's treasury and contributed to the gradual decline of the Egyptian Empire in Asia. The severity of the difficulties is indicated by the fact that the first known labour strike in recorded history occurred during the twenty-ninth year of Ramesses III's reign. At that time, the food rations for Egypt's favoured and elite royal tomb-builders and artisans in the village of Deir el Medina could not be provisioned.[23] Air pollution limited the amount of sunlight penetrating the atmosphere, affecting agricultural production and arresting global tree growth for almost two full decades, until 1140 BC.[24] One proposed cause is the Hekla 3 eruption of the Hekla volcano in Iceland, but the dating of this remains disputed.
Decline into the Third Intermediate Period
Ramesses III's death was followed by years of bickering among his heirs. Three of his sons ascended the throne successively as Ramesses IV, Rameses VI, and Rameses VIII. Egypt was increasingly beset by droughts, below-normal flooding of the Nile, famine, civil unrest, and corruption of officials. The power of the last pharaoh of the dynasty, Ramesses XI, grew so weak that in the south the High Priests of Amun at Thebes became the de facto rulers of Upper Egypt, and Smendes controlled Lower Egypt in the north, even before Rameses XI's death. Smendes eventually founded the twenty-first dynasty at Tanis.
It was during the 20th dynasty that a split arose and the Southern parts of the Kingdom were under the defacto rule of the Kings son of Kush/Chief Priest of Amun. And this split eventually led to the division in the land and the rise of the 21st dynasty leading to the 3rd intermediate period. The point being that the traditional way to the throne going back at least to the Middle Kingdom was associated with Amun as the "father" of the king which, to may, mind probably was associated with a Southern heritage. Also another sign of this Southern heritage was also the office of God's Wife of Amun and Divine Adoratrice of Amun. Likely this was in opposition to the increased influence of the Asiatics and other foreigners in the North. This period of the third intermediate period centered in the South was called the "Great Renaissance" by the people of this time and not (the third intermediate period). This is because there was tremendous looting that had taken place as a result of the various Asiatic groups who had come into the country and these Amun priest/kings went about restoring a sense of order by reburying many of the mummies that had been disturbed.
quote: The de facto split between Ramesses XI and his 21st Dynasty successors with the High Priests of Amun at Thebes (referred to in Ancient Egyptian as Wehem Mesut or 'Renaissance') resulted in the unofficial political division of Egypt between Upper Egypt and Lower Egypt, with the kings ruling Lower Egypt from Tanis. This division did not come to a complete end until the accession of the Libyan Dynasty 22 king Shoshenq I in 943 BC. Shoshenq was able to appoint his son Iuput to be the new High Priest of Amun at Thebes, thus exercising authority over all of ancient Egypt.
It is this defacto Southern kingdom associated with the priests of Amun and the Kings son of Kush that directly gave rise to the Kushite kings of the 25th dynasty. However, by this time the Nile was unable to field enough men or materiel to maintain a presence in the Levant or to even defend its borders and Kush was in no position to change this. The Kushites continued the old traditions and maintained the "rennaisance" and were not known to loot or steal treasures. Hence the dynasty was the last gasp of traditional Nile Valley rule giving way to the future eras of foreign rule. After the Kushite Dynasty the Nile Valley state was very weak and began depending on various foreign mercenaries from Greece and the Mediterranean along with sailors and ships from Phoenicia.
So as a result of all of this chaos and confusion especially by modern scholars, comes the idea of various notable persons from the Nile Valley having foreign ancestry albeit without much direct proof, such as Tutankhamun being he son of a Mittani female. This confusion also extends to the nature of Set worship in this time period and whether it indicated Asiatic heritage. And
Posts: 8889 | Registered: May 2005
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I know Canaanite isn't the correct term so when you see the word can you just replace it with "Levantine" because these aren't my pictures, just something I found off Instagram.
“When Ramesses II and Hattusili III concluded their peace treaty, the gods of both countries witnessed the arrangement. The Hittites saw the storm god as their supreme god and acknowledged a storm god in every major city of the state. All of those appeared in the treaty as written out by the Hittites. When the Egyptians translated this version into their own language to carve it on temple walls, they did not want to use the name Teshub, however, but instead used the name of the archetypal god of foreign lands, Seth. Thus appear:
"‘Seth, the lord of the sky; Seth of Hatti; Seth of the city of Arinna; Seth of the city of Zippalanda; Seth of the city of Pitrik; Seth of the city of Hissaspa; Seth of the [city of Hurma]; [Seth of the city of Uda]; Seth of the city of Sa[pinuwa]; [Seth] of thunder (?); Seth of the city of Sahphina.’ “The idea that the Egyptian pantheon covered the entire universe was easily preserved.”2"
If this is true, then it does prove that the god Seth expanded outward into the levant as Doug stated.
"Likewise, the association of Set with Baal came about most likely because of the Egyptian influence moving northward, not because Set was introduced by Asiatics into Egypt. Going back to what I said about the political, cultural, and religious basis for the dynasty itself, it would be LUDICROUS to have the Pharoah, fighting AGAINST Asiatics, but WORSHIPPING Asiatic gods. Another piece of pure nonsense."
But there's still the question, Why would Rameses ii accept these foreigners, gods. Why would he mix religions?
The god Seth actually originated in Upper Egypt. His cult center was the ancient city of Nubt that dates from Naqada times and later on was known as Ombos. Seti I father of Ramses II whose namesake is of the deity hails from Ombos although he relocated to the Delta in Avaris. The problem is that the Delta people have a more negative view of Set stemming from their mythology as Set being the murderous brother of Osiris and usurper of his heir Horus. In that mythology after a long struggle, Ra and the other elder gods gave Egypt to Horus while Set was made ruler of the adjacent foreign lands like Asia. He was even given the Asiatic goddesses Anath and Qadesh as wives as further consolation prize. So to the Delta natives though Seth was not foreign he became the patron of foreigners especially Asiatics. Meanwhile the Asiatic migrants themselves who settle in the Delta identified Seth with Baal-Hadad due to similarities-- Seth was a god of storms especially sandstorms and so was Hadad plus Hadad's wives were the same goddesses given to Seth. The Ramsessides were famous for having Asiatic wives in their harems and thus adopted such cultural influence as well but that does not change the fact that Set was an indigenous Egyptian deity.
-------------------- Mahirap gisingin ang nagtutulog-tulugan. Posts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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