quote:The number of Arab settlers in Egypt was quite small in comparison to the large Egyptian population, that whatever type inter-marriage had little effect on the makeup of the native Egyptians.
Also, the same can be said about many of the other foreign groups or elements that settled in Egypt. Egypt has always had a larger population in comparison to its neighbors.
This is not entirely true. In areas like the Delta which was largely unpopulated Egyptians would often settle their foreign captives. In the First and Second Intermediate Period the Delta was filled with foreigners. Plus you had constant settlement from Caanan and Libyans around the coast line.
Bear in mind the established population of Egypt was only around 4 million people,but today its around nearly 80 million. Most of the population is within the Delta and city areas.
In antiquity this was not the case with most of the population being around Luxor to Aswan.
quote:I think the one thing that most people don't realize is that the Native Egyptians probably got darker as they had more and more contact with people from Nubia and the Sudan, rather than the other way around.
That is why the Black admixture can easily be seen in many parts of Egypt, especically in the Upper Sa'eed, but other parts as well.
If you start out with a native Black African stock, there is no way you'll get Caucasoid looking people with small Black admixture, but you will get is people like the Modern Nubians, Northern Sudanese, Somalis, and Eithiopians. Now, on the other hand, when you start out with Caucasoid stock or Middle Eastern people if you like, you'll get people like the Modern Egyptians, Libyans, Saudis, Syrians, Moroccans, etc.
The problem here is your lack of knowleadge of pre-dyanstic Egyptian remains. Negriod types have been present in Egypt since at least the pre-dynastic. The other senerios like Libyans is not valid either because the Bani Hilal drove the indigenous populations southward towards the Sahel.
Posts: 8675 | From: Tukuler al~Takruri as Ardo since OCT2014 | Registered: Feb 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Ayazid: [QUOTE]Originally posted by rasol: [b]Sorry but he does look like many African Americans, or Dominican or Peurto Rican or Brazilian to me, and he would to most others as well, and you're kidding yourself if you think he can be visually identified as 'Arab' based on that image.
Indeed, what proof to you have that the man above actually has specifically Asiatic-semitic ancestry?
I am sorry, but this man looks clearly Middle Eastern and if you donīt see it, thatīs your problem.He could pass everywhere in the Middle East or North Africa, however he would greatly stand out in Subsaharan Africa, including East Africa. I am sure that he is genetically much closer to West Asian/semitic populations than to Subsaharan Africans.
[This message has been edited by Ayazid (edited 16 March 2005).][/B][/QUOTE]
so ayazid, what do you mean by saying, he would stand out in east africa? In east africa are people more lighter than him, but they don`t compair them selves with whites or westners. Most people ask me, if i`m from india??? But i`m not. I`m Eritrean rashaida and proud of it. Hier in america people don`t even know where eritrea is, and don`t know about the other world history. Hier is the raciest country. All east african don`t look the same, there is people a lot lighter or brown or dark, like the same thing in egypt. Even in middle eastern, there are people of dark skin. For example in Kuwait or other parts of city. I been in egypt, there is different kind of people, but i never heard them saying they are white. They hate white people, not all, but most of them. I don`t know what are you trying to say??? Are you try to compair your self as white?? Hier in america is a lot different than Europe, i grow up in germany, i am since 1 year hier. In germany, they say the only white are europians, the others are identifide by tribes. They never use the terms white or arab or black or others, like hier in America. They identifide by where you come from. Hier in america are uneducated people, no all, but most of them. If they hier africa, they think most african look the same or are bar foot walking or the women don`t cover, i never seen in my life like this country, ignorant people and they think, they know, but don`t know nothing. In america the media play a lot roll by manuplating and show lies to their people.If you see news, you will find out, what i`m talking about. Take example about middle eastern situation, how they show to people, me i don`t believe what they show. You should be proud what you are and the only white people are EUROPIANS and them civilization came on the last. The other people civilization came way before the EUROPIANS. Even turk people, they don`t say we white, the turk people identifide them selves southern in german suedlaendisch. I think you are not a real egyptain. A real Egyptain would never denide his tribes. Look the westners culture, they don`t have one really, I would never put my parents, when they are old in nursing homes, they are really barbaric, but not all. They are pig eaters, look them women. The westners always steal other peoples history, not for one minute i would believe them, all is lies. They always put the coulor people down and as stupid. I ask an black american guy, why they call you african american? Why they don`t call them selves europian american? But he couldn`t give me an answer. I ask my self, what they really have to do with africa, they born hier and grow up hier like them. No one is american hier, the really american are the indians. Why all this names??? But you can`t call a person by the skin coulor, it should be by the tribes or by where the person come from. That is why i ask the people, when i hier an arogant answer, are you been there?Most of the time i hier no. If you never been there how do you know. Most people over hier believe what they see on the media. Remember the whites have or had been manuplating people for centurys. Couple month ago, i was watching on history channel about queen sheba and her son minilik I, they showed on the tv as a white blond lady and her son as white men, such lies, they were not white. Back then the white people didn`t exiest in middle eastern or in africa, that is the fact. You can say or try to hide the truth whatever, it don`t work. The other thing is we arabs call a dark person a brother or sister, but i never heard an arab call a white person as brother or sister, never never, some old generation don`t even know about the westners or if they exiest, i am talking about my tribes. So you need to be careful, when you use the turm east african, if you are a real egyptain, you would not say that.You know what they call each other the north and east africans in germany, they call each other as brothers and sisters. Go to Frankfurt in Germany and you will find out. Than we can talk and most of the time, you cann`t tell the different, I am not saying all. There is different tribes in east africa like the same thing goes to north africa. I think you and Evel euro are not an arabs, i think you all are an ignorant whites, the same thing goes to Homeb... and Ak...., what kind name that is
quote: Ayazid wrote: I just donīt agree with some of your statements, for example that dark Egyptians consider themselves to be black
Originally posted by Kem-Au: I never said that...
In order to justifiy his rant, Ayazid will keep putting his words in your mouth, and picking pointless argument, for just as long as he thinks there is a chance that he can bully you into agreeing with him.
You are very kind to indulge him in this.
[This message has been edited by rasol (edited 16 March 2005).]
I am not kidding, you must be stupid, there is people more straight nose and hair than him, i know who he is. I like to hier his musics and i have cds from him. I am not manuplating people like you, i am telling you, you are not a real egyptain.It don`t make sense to argue with you.
quote:Originally posted by ausar: Kem-au, there have been foreigners coming to the Delta in large numbers since the Middle Kingdom. This is when Sinuhe says that a Delta man could not recognize himself in Elephantine[Aswan].
I understand this, and have never debated it. However I don't see how that conflicts with anything I've said.
quote:Originally posted by Kem-Au: Here's more interesting info. Egyptians built their temples with the east side representing life, and the west side representing death.
If a statue was shown with the left foot forward, that symbolized life. Both feet together symbolized death.
Kem-Au, I always wondered wht the left foot forward stood for. How did you find out?
posted
Arabs are not a racial group, but rather an ethnic group. The original Arabs living in the Arabian Peninsula, and most of the Iraqis do not have a white skin complexion. Fair ones are present, just like in mainly dark skinned East Africa or India. The only 'white' Arabs are those living in Syria and Lebanom, because they have a heavy Greek or Turkish admixture.
Egypt does not fit in the same category as Syria or Turkey. It is more like a mixture of East Africa and the Arabian Peninsula. Both are nowhere close to white at all, even though they can be found. Most including, myself have seen that Upper Egyptians are mainly Black. Obviously the majority come from the East African extraction, so don't expect to find a Michael Jordan. The North is not exactly white, even though there is a pretty significant (not to mention powerful) white minority.
It's pretty obvious Egypt is nowhere close to a white nation. Some Syrians, Lebanese, and Turks affiliate with Europe, but this is because they look white, however most Egyptians don't have this 'option'.
quote:Originally posted by ABAZA: The number of Arab settlers in Egypt was quite small in comparison to the large Egyptian population, that whatever type inter-marriage had little effect on the makeup of the native Egyptians.
Also, the same can be said about many of the other foreign groups or elements that settled in Egypt. Egypt has always had a larger population in comparison to its neighbors.
I think the one thing that most people don't realize is that the Native Egyptians probably got darker as they had more and more contact with people from Nubia and the Sudan, rather than the other way around.
That is why the Black admixture can easily be seen in many parts of Egypt, especically in the Upper Sa'eed, but other parts as well.
If you start out with a native Black African stock, there is no way you'll get Caucasoid looking people with small Black admixture, but you will get is people like the Modern Nubians, Northern Sudanese, Somalis, and Eithiopians. Now, on the other hand, when you start out with Caucasoid stock or Middle Eastern people if you like, you'll get people like the Modern Egyptians, Libyans, Saudis, Syrians, Moroccans, etc.
People in the Northern Mediterranean countries have some Black African and Middle Eastern heritage as well, as an admixture, but because they're closer to the rest of Europe, the effects are quite small.
What up-to-date peer-reviewed source has brought you to this conclusion?
posted
oh, i think we could find some that are tall like jordan. population in egypt came from all areas,but mostly from lower nubia but a large number came from the sahara and other ares of east africa,so we can't forget that early nubia's population is from the southwest and sahara where most west and central african groups are from as well.
Posts: 2688 | Registered: Jul 2004
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quote:Originally posted by dahlak: I am not kidding, you must be stupid, there is people more straight nose and hair than him, i know who he is. I like to hier his musics and i have cds from him.It don`t make sense to argue with you.
---------------> shokran 3ala adabak wa Allah yesam7ak
I just said my opinion and if you want to insult me this way thatīs your problem.
Anyway, 99,99% of East Africans are DARKER and more negroid than Hakeem! He would greatly stand out in Ethiopia,Somalia or Erithrea.
[This message has been edited by Ayazid (edited 17 March 2005).]
quote:Originally posted by rasol: In order to justifiy his rant, Ayazid will keep putting his words in your mouth, and picking pointless argument, for just as long as he thinks there is a chance that he can bully you into agreeing with him.
You are very kind to indulge him in this.
[This message has been edited by rasol (edited 16 March 2005).]
As usually you are completely wrong rasol.
It was just my impression from this statement:
quote:Originally posted by Kem-Au: Most Egyptians I saw were black by their standards and mine.
quote:Originally posted by Roy_2k5: Egypt does not fit in the same category as Syria or Turkey. It is more like a mixture of East Africa and the Arabian Peninsula. Both are nowhere close to white at all, even though they can be found. Most including, myself have seen that Upper Egyptians are mainly Black. Obviously the majority come from the East African extraction, so don't expect to find a Michael Jordan. The North is not exactly white, even though there is a pretty significant (not to mention powerful) white minority.
It's pretty obvious Egypt is nowhere close to a white nation. Some Syrians, Lebanese, and Turks affiliate with Europe, but this is because they look white, however most Egyptians don't have this 'option'.
Most Egyptians are rather "brown", but the fact is that in Delta, there are milions of Egyptians who are very light-skined and practically white like Palestinians or Syrians. And most Upper Egyptians are far from being mainly black.
quote:The number of Arab settlers in Egypt was quite small in comparison to the large Egyptian population, that whatever type inter-marriage had little effect on the makeup of the native Egyptians. Also, the same can be said about many of the other foreign groups or elements that settled in Egypt. Egypt has always had a larger population in comparison to its neighbors.
I think the one thing that most people don't realize is that the Native Egyptians probably got darker as they had more and more contact with people from Nubia and the Sudan, rather than the other way around.
That is why the Black admixture can easily be seen in many parts of Egypt, especically in the Upper Sa'eed, but other parts as well.
If you start out with a native Black African stock, there is no way you'll get Caucasoid looking people with small Black admixture, but you will get is people like the Modern Nubians, Northern Sudanese, Somalis, and Eithiopians. Now, on the other hand, when you start out with Caucasoid stock or Middle Eastern people if you like, you'll get people like the Modern Egyptians, Libyans, Saudis, Syrians, Moroccans, etc.
People in the Northern Mediterranean countries have some Black African and Middle Eastern heritage as well, as an admixture, but because they're closer to the rest of Europe, the effects are quite small.
Supercar asked:
quote: What up-to-date peer-reviewed source has brought you to this conclusion?
Ayazid, I noticed how you carefully dodged my question, but it does however still stand.
Were you unable to answer because you have no way of substantiating your wild claims, as requested? If not the case, then the answer will be most welcome at your earliest. Thanks.
[This message has been edited by Super car (edited 17 March 2005).]
quote:Originally posted by Ayazid: ---------------> shokran 3ala adabak wa Allah yesam7ak
I just said my opinion and if you want to insult me this way thatīs your problem.
Anyway, 99,99% of East Africans are DARKER and more negroid than Hakeem! He would greatly stand out in Ethiopia,Somalia or Erithrea.
[This message has been edited by Ayazid (edited 17 March 2005).]
Have you ever been in eritrea???? how do you know???? Like i said there are people more light than him. I am not trying to argue with you or insult you. Like you have your own opinion and i have my own opinion.I keep saying this, all east african don`t look the same, like egypt. In Egypt is mix population, so is in Eritrea.read this History of Eritrea Between 1000 and 400 BC, a Semitic group of people known as the Sabeans croosed the Red Sea into the region known as present Eritrea, and intermingled with the Hamitic inhabitants who had migrated from northern Sudan. The region was than controlled by various foreign invaders such as the Axumite Kingdom, the Funji Sultans of Sudan, the Egyptians, the Portugese and Turks. Each of these foreign occupiers had a distinct impact on the development of present day Eritrea as a nation and in the formation of an Eritrean identity. Eritrea has a mixed Afro-Asiatic population. That is divided by religion and language. There are nine etnic groups in Eritrea, which one: The Kushitic linguistic groups: Afar 4%, Denkalia), Bilen 2% (Keren area), Hedareb 2% (tessenei), Saho 3% (Foro) The Nilotic linguistic groups: Kunama 3% and Nara 2% (or Baria) (western lowlands) The Semitic linguistic groups: Tigre 35% (Sahel) and Tigrinya 48% (mainly in the highlands) Groups of Arab origin: Rashaida 1% (near Massawa).
posted
Ok, there are some of your Rashaida compatriots, who are the lightest inhabitants of Eritrea and who constitute only a few percents of Eritrean population:
And now you can compare them with Hakim:
Hakim is lighter and more Levantine looking than them. Those Rashaida look just like Saudi bedouins.
One who wants all East Africans to be Arab and distinct from west Africa.
The other who wants North Africans to be Arab and distinct from East Africa.
Should be fun.
I am not saying all east african, i am trying to explain to him, like egypt is mix population, so is Eritrea. But i never used the word been white. The only white people are Europians. You should not charge (tell) a person by his or her skin coulor. There are dark skin arabs, that don`t make them as negroid. Let me ask you a quastion, are you from somalia or is any one from somalia on this web site??? I have a friend from Somalia, but he is yemeni somalia, He is more light than the guy on the picture, so what catagory you would put him? There are people even dark yemeni somalia, they always say, they are arabs, but they are from east africa.
quote:Originally posted by Ayazid: Most Egyptians are rather "brown", but the fact is that in Delta, there are milions of Egyptians who are very light-skined and practically white like Palestinians or Syrians. And most Upper Egyptians are far from being mainly black.
We don't need to agree on terminology, but do you at least see African ancestry in modern Egyptians, regardless of their skin color? If not, then any debate really is pointless.
[This message has been edited by Kem-Au (edited 17 March 2005).]
quote:Originally posted by Ayazid: Ok, there are some of your Rashaida compatriots, who are the lightest inhabitants of Eritrea and who constitute only a few percents of Eritrean population:
And now you can compare them with Hakim:
Hakim is lighter and more Levantine looking than them. Those Rashaida look just like Saudi bedouins.
Well we are arabs, but you post couple pictures, it don`t matter the fact is there are people more lighter than him. The other thing is he is not on the hot dessert most of the time, my people are. Like i said egypt is a mix population, there are people dark, brown, light, the same thing in Eritrea. IN Egypt are people look like Eritreans. That is the fact and ARE NOT WHITE. The only white people are EUROPIANS. I never heard an arab say the defination of being white, except this web site. Most arabs hate europians (white).
quote:Let me ask you a quastion, are you from somalia or is any one from somalia on this web site??? I have a friend from Somalia, but he is yemeni somalia, he is more light than the guy on the picture, so what catagory you would put him?
You just answered your own question....'yemeni somalian'. I have Somali friends who live in Britain. They are darker than many Shona and other south Africans. They are Somali Brits.
Now that your question is answered....by all means resume your cat-fighting with Ayazid. It is most entertaining.
quote:Originally posted by rasol: [B] Now that your question is answered....by all means resume your cat-fighting with Ayazid. It is most entertaining.
You are very funny person rasol ... like all afrocentrists
[This message has been edited by Ayazid (edited 17 March 2005).]
quote:Originally posted by rasol: [QUOTE]Let me ask you a quastion, are you from somalia or is any one from somalia on this web site??? I have a friend from Somalia, but he is yemeni somalia, he is more light than the guy on the picture, so what catagory you would put him?
You just answered your own question....'yemeni somalian'. I have Somali friends who live in Britain. They are darker than many Shona and other south Africans. They are Somali Brits.
Now that your question is answered....by all means resume your cat-fighting with Ayazid. It is most entertaining. [/QUOTE]
for real you are funny, we are not cat-fighting, we are exchanging our own opinion.
posted
Somebody was asking for some Somali representaion here...well here I am. Anyway..interesting topic... I think for a start colour is not the question. As for as Somalis are concerned, we come in all shades from the whitest of white to the blackest of black ( and everything inbetween)...However, we are unified by several definative traits, features and hair texture. So whoever said that East Africans were more negroid and darker than Eygptians..I beg to differ. .. Darker yes ( although not always)..more negroid .. NO. Morever, what does an Arab look like? What defines and Arab as being an Arab? Not race or religion, but language and culture.
The the gentleman who was talking about his Yemeni Somali friend..yes we have Yemenis who have assimilated into the Somalis, just as there are Somalis who have assimilated into the Yemenis. Yet there are somalis of non yemeni origin who are lighter, just as there are Yemenis of non-Somali origin who are dark. As i say..its not a question of colour...A border drawn by an old colonial powers will not stop people from mixing and inter-marriage. As most of you have pointed out... Egyptians are of mixed heritage, but still egytian..whether you're white, black or somwhwere inbetween.
Over and out 7amoudi
Posts: 1 | From: london | Registered: May 2005
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