-Semitic and Cushitic speakers in Sub Saharan Africa carry Non African derived light skin alleles. These groups non Local Ancestry is strongly tied to the Eastern Sahara and Egypto-Nubia. Thus It is HIGHLY LIKELY these light skin variants existing in the SOURCE population of pastoral migrants FROM North Africa.
That's interesting. When do you think those alleles first appeared in that specific part of North Africa (Egypt) ?
Well They came into existence 28kya. -So Nazlet Khater 35kya couldn't have had them. -Wadi Kubbaniya (Southern Egypt) 20kya COULD have had them based on dates....But likely didn't based on their absence in Iberomaurusian 15kya, Natufian 14kya, Late Neolithic Moroccan 7kya.
-In PPNB they start to show up in the Levant based on SNP call data. As of now Sheep Goat migration into Africa has the earliest date of 9kya in the Western Desert (Polish Team Jebel Ramlah unpublished). -Jebel Ramlah 7000BC COULD carry them. Path of migration = PPNB Levant > Red Sea Coast > Nile > Western Desert. The transmission of these domesticates from PPNB are hypothesized to have been incorporated into the Saharo Sahelian Cultural complex (Nilo Saharans). Not directly into the ancestors of Afro-Asiatics. Here again the paucity of data is a handicaps and we only know that a human type with predominantly Sub Saharan Dental traits starts to show a bit of heterogeneity in the Early Western Desert (Nabta Playa) and even more Northern African traits in Jebel Ramlah by 5000BC. A "mixed" or "Mediterranean" type has not been found this early in Egypt. Also None of their Nilotic Descendants who lack Cushitic ancestry carry derived traits.
IMO this is the Window. The 9-6kya allows a window where EARLY migration into Africa would be be of Dark skinned West Eurasian populations. These populations are thought to have been absorbed into Nilo-Saharans and their pastoral influence is associated with Saharao-Sahelian cultural complex. See Wadi Takarkori (7000ya) skeletons being of an Equatorial type while carrying mtdna N*, and practically ALL Egyptian Western Desert People.
As far as I am concerned, both episodes of pulse Migration can have individuals with the composite Dinka/Natufian genetic profile characteristic of "Cushtic" speakers, the oldest of which simply wouldn't carry derived alleles.
Thanks, this is fascinating because it could potentially also clarify the sudden appearance of the Capsian industry in southern Tunisia, which exhibited distinct physical differences from the Mechta-Afalou types. Your proposed timeframe also aligns with this. Additionally, I am aware that the Dinka/Natufian genetic component offered a better match for one of the Copper Age North African samples, as opposed to the Yoruba or Natufian alone so who knows.
Posts: 1779 | From: Somewhere In the Rif Mountains | Registered: Nov 2021
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posted
Forum Biodiverity has been cloned and reused all over the net, also a biodiveristy google scholar is not confined to one website. They're all over the net claiming a. Egypt is Levantine/Eurasian and spamming We Wuz Kangs and calling folks Hoteps if they disagree..
I agree that Afrocentrists and Africanits like to ignore Data and science, I honestly barely take any of them serious, esp. the online Youtube historians that inspired this thread.
You have folks like Dr. Ashby, but yeah your right people will flock to the feel goodism over proper researchers like Dr. Ashby.
quote:Originally posted by beyoku: @-Just Call Me Jari- ForumBiodiversity died like 7 years ago or something. It no longer exists and none of those people are here.
This is a discussion about how *WE* analyze and discuss scientific data....and how *WE* Ignore and or refuse to read up to date scientific data.
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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quote:Originally posted by beyoku: @King. WE know that Egyptians were African. You are wasting bandwidth.
Pictures are not a waste of bandwidth, it shows that Ancient Egypt and its people were Black Africans and shows the connections to Africa not shared with the levant
yes but the video and topic is about preference of STR predictor analysis over SNP haplogroups by some
not a general "Were the Egyptians Black? " thread, that there are already 8,304 threads on already
Listen, I took the what do you think of these Amarna pop affiliator results by Keita et al. ?mummies as described as part of what it means to have pictures of mummies of obvious greek and roman ancestry as a way of understanding that the pictures on the wall show the egyptians to be culturally Black African and that its shared with East Africans.
To say the egyptians culture was African denotes that North Africa has influence on egypt but the North Africans do not share cultural traits as much either. Its Black Africa that Shares cultural traits
That's the problem
The thread title is
"what do you think of these Amarna pop affiliator results by Keita et al. ?"
that is a genetic test result from a specific computer program and has nothing to do with looking at anything or culture It has to do with DNA testing methods
Posts: 42919 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-: I'd be careful using those picture spams as scientific proof, You'd have to do peer reviewed studies to be taken serious.
who are you addressing?
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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posted
Regarding jewelry and similar, something that the Levant borrowed from Egyptian culture was the use of scarabs. They became rather popular among peoples like Canaanites and Phoenicians
quote: Scarabs, beetle shaped amulets and impression seals which were widely popular throughout ancient Egypt, still survive in large numbers still today. Through their inscriptions and typology, they prove to be an important source of information for archaeologists and historians of the ancient world, and represent a significant body of ancient Egyptian art.
Likely due to their connections to the Egyptian goddess Khepri, amulets in the form of Scarab Beetles had become enormously popular in Ancient Egypt by the early Middle Kingdom (approx. 2000 BCE) and remained popular for the rest of the pharaonic period and beyond. Throughout Egyptian history, the function of Scarabs repeatedly changed. Though primarily worn as amulets and sometimes rings, Scarabs were also inscribed for use as personal or administrative seals or were incorporated into other kinds of jewelry. Additionally, some Scarabs were created for political or diplomatic purposes to commemorate or advertise royal achievements.
Starting in the middle Bronze Age, other ancient peoples of the Mediterranean and the Middle East imported Scarabs from Egypt and also produced Scarabs in Egyptian or local styles, especially in the Levant.
quote:Originally posted by beyoku: @King. WE know that Egyptians were African. You are wasting bandwidth.
Pictures are not a waste of bandwidth, it shows that Ancient Egypt and its people were Black Africans and shows the connections to Africa not shared with the levant
yes but the video and topic is about preference of STR predictor analysis over SNP haplogroups by some
not a general "Were the Egyptians Black? " thread, that there are already 8,304 threads on already
Listen, I took the what do you think of these Amarna pop affiliator results by Keita et al. ?mummies as described as part of what it means to have pictures of mummies of obvious greek and roman ancestry as a way of understanding that the pictures on the wall show the egyptians to be culturally Black African and that its shared with East Africans.
To say the egyptians culture was African denotes that North Africa has influence on egypt but the North Africans do not share cultural traits as much either. Its Black Africa that Shares cultural traits
That's the problem
The thread title is
"what do you think of these Amarna pop affiliator results by Keita et al. ?"
that is a genetic test result from a specific computer program and has nothing to do with looking at anything or culture It has to do with DNA testing methods
lioness you have no bearing on what I post. The fayum mummies was used to talk about a certain study that claimed Ancient egypt was linked to the near east, I countered with culture that shows no links but many links to Black Africa
Posts: 9651 | From: Reace and Love City. | Registered: Oct 2005
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quote:Originally posted by KING: here is what Ancient Egypt shares with East Africa
Egypt and East Africa share clay hats
the v scarfs shared with south Africa xhosa people
Ancient Egypt beadworks and Bantu bead work similarity
Ancient Egypt wearing animal coats like Black Africans
the hairstyles that is shared with East Africa:
egyptians and other east Africans with shared head carrying ways
Similar look of Ancient Egyptians and Africans
All these show cultural similarity that is not shared with the levant so how does the levant compare.
this cultural aspects cant be compared to what has happened to the levant because theres no people behind it
Posts: 9651 | From: Reace and Love City. | Registered: Oct 2005
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quote:Originally posted by KING: lioness you have no bearing on what I post. The fayum mummies was used to talk about a certain study that claimed Ancient egypt was linked to the near east, I countered with culture that shows no links but many links to Black Africa
No, the theme of the thread is pop affiliator results of Keita and I don't know if you know what that is. Look at the title The theme of the thread is not "what do you think of this video"
Now you are repeating the same big pictures all over again, please make a new thread instead
people, please ignore KING, it's diversion off the topic , spamming pictures >> repeating them unnecessarily to try to occupy more space
Posts: 42919 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Originally posted by KING: lioness you have no bearing on what I post. The fayum mummies was used to talk about a certain study that claimed Ancient egypt was linked to the near east, I countered with culture that shows no links but many links to Black Africa
No, the theme of the thread is pop affiliator results of Keita and I don't know if you know what that is. Look at the title The theme of the thread is not "what do you think of this video"
Now you are repeating the same big pictures all over again, please make a new thread instead
people, please ignore KING, it's diversion off the topic , spamming pictures >> repeating them unnecessarily to try to occupy more space
Lioness in the first 2 minutes of the video The Great DNA Hoax: The European heist of Ancient Egypt (Documentary) the video talks about the fayum mummies and that was what he is talking about. I chose to talk about the fayum and use pictures to show that ancient Egypt is Black African
Posts: 9651 | From: Reace and Love City. | Registered: Oct 2005
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quote:Originally posted by KING: lioness you have no bearing on what I post. The fayum mummies was used to talk about a certain study that claimed Ancient egypt was linked to the near east, I countered with culture that shows no links but many links to Black Africa
No, the theme of the thread is pop affiliator results of Keita and I don't know if you know what that is. Look at the title The theme of the thread is not "what do you think of this video"
Now you are repeating the same big pictures all over again, please make a new thread instead
people, please ignore KING, it's diversion off the topic , spamming pictures >> repeating them unnecessarily to try to occupy more space
Lioness in the first 2 minutes of the video the video talks about the fayum mummies and that was what he is talking about. I chose to talk about the fayum and use pictures to show that ancient Egypt is Black African
The theme of the thread is a specific thing discussed in the video pop affiliator results by Keita, that is the name of genetics program PopAffiliator
You are putting a lot of big photos in the thread. You should start a new thread "About King's Monologue video about Fayum mummies"
I have to do a lot of work, making images and posting info related to the topic. I didn't even put King's Monologue in the thread title because his source was S.O.Y Keita's test results
Posts: 42919 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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Its extremely obvious a certain subset of people in this space have not intellectually matured. A thorough understanding of archeology in this region makes a person extremely comfortable and confident how LOCAL this culture is. It allows you to discuss external influence in its proper context without having to constantly remind yourself its Africanness or its Blackness.
"To say the egyptians culture was African denotes that North Africa has influence on egypt"
Folks entire orientation is messed up. "North Africa having influence on Egypt" is about as nonsensical as saying "Africa has Influence on Egypt." Let me stop here, yall getting my blood pressure up.
And this is why i laugh when we flail.
Posts: 2463 | From: New Jersey USA | Registered: Dec 2007
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quote:Originally posted by beyoku: Its extremely obvious a certain subset of people in this space have not intellectually matured. A thorough understanding of archeology in this region makes a person extremely comfortable and confident how LOCAL this culture is. It allows you to discuss external influence in its proper context without having to constantly remind yourself its Africanness or its Blackness.
"To say the egyptians culture was African denotes that North Africa has influence on egypt"
Folks entire orientation is messed up. "North Africa having influence on Egypt" is about as nonsensical as saying "Africa has Influence on Egypt." Let me stop here, yall getting my blood pressure up.
And this is why i laugh when we flail.
Whats stated is that North African does not share with Ancient Egypt culture as Black Africa has
Posts: 9651 | From: Reace and Love City. | Registered: Oct 2005
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quote:Originally posted by beyoku: Black folk steadily getting played with feelgoodism fancy editing.
STR results from one set of mummies do not trump SNP results from a totally separate unrelated group of mummies. New studies putting a foot in that ass while we regurgitate 15 year old data with no new analysis. Rude Awakenings coming. Prepare.
So I assume that S.O.Y. Keita et al. was guilty of doing that in the 2020 article in the OP, the only chart they produced was based on the that old 2010 data, Keita indulging in feelgoodism
Posts: 42919 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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We could def. have discussions on A. Egyptian archeology without having to resort to this and that "blackness" or Africaness. Ive tried for years with my Uah-Ka thread...
A whole unexplored, untouched subject where the evidence strongly suggests that not only a powerful Elite of Southern Egyptian /Northern Sudanese families who originated in Ta-Set were dominating A. Egyptian aristocratic life by at least the 4th Dynasty.
Not only that but these folks Created/Pioneered the Speo/Rock Hewn Temple later used by Sutens such as Rameses II at Abu Simbel....
but no one cares, out side of Al...has anyone shown interest.
Yall care more about DNA, and being at the "Big Boys Table" with Eurocentrics/Biodiversity Scholars....
I don't mind, just lets not pretend the folks at the Big Boy table give a damn about A. Egyptian cultural/archeological/historical material evidence.
A. Egypt=Levantine/A/ Egypt=European/A. Egypt= Motha -fuking Arabians of all people..lol
All discussed and said and accepted in mainstream "genetic/science" communities. This is supposed to be the big boy table? Saying A.Egypt=Levantines/Arab because they found some Natufian ancestry....lol Come on dawg., I don't know half about the DNA stuff but even I know that is about as intellectually Immature as folks here still stuck on the pure African Egypt.
quote:Originally posted by beyoku: Its extremely obvious a certain subset of people in this space have not intellectually matured. A thorough understanding of archeology in this region makes a person extremely comfortable and confident how LOCAL this culture is. It allows you to discuss external influence in its proper context without having to constantly remind yourself its Africanness or its Blackness.
"To say the egyptians culture was African denotes that North Africa has influence on egypt"
Folks entire orientation is messed up. "North Africa having influence on Egypt" is about as nonsensical as saying "Africa has Influence on Egypt." Let me stop here, yall getting my blood pressure up.
And this is why i laugh when we flail.
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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quote:Originally posted by beyoku: See the video in the OP where the creator speaks of New Kingdom Egyptians being "PURE" Africans while presenting data that doesn't show those said Egyptians to be "PURE" African. The guy speaking DOESNT even know where Abusir IS!
Please post timecode reference of this statement, and I can't find a single reference to 'pure' Africans anywhere in the video...?
6 minutes 30 seconds. "A purely African population inhabited Ancient Egypt"
Excuse me, how is that incorrect? Are you suggesting a purely African population didn't inhabit ancient Egypt? Are you supporting the idea that Kemet was colonised from Mesopotamia or the Middle East? Last time I checked the Kemetic population were an indigenous nilo-saharan population... what the hell is going on here. This is exactly why I stopped posting in this group, eurocentric apologists.
Wait so we in 2023 and we still arguing that ancient Egyptians were "100% Sub Saharan African"? We really doing that? "Kemetic population were an indigenous nilo-saharan population" Wait, what? "Ancient Egyptian" linguistically is no longer part of the Afro-Asiatic language family anymore?
Don't we have DNA From Ancient Egypt indicating they were not "Pure Africans". Doesn't Amarna R-M269 and Mtdna K1 indicate they are not "Pure Africans". Doesn't DNA Tribe debunk the notion of "Pure Africans" ?
Did you just step out of a time capsule or something and have yet to get reoriented with the latest genetic findings? Everyone want to put Keitas name in their mouth but dont really want to folly Keita and 5 Minutes later the talking about "Pure Races".
Do you regard the "Natufian" ancestry as purely "Eurasian," or as a mixed North African/Eurasian component?
The ability for people to create their own strawman arguments is hilarious. I don't believe you are unintelligent enough to not understand the difference between 'purely african' and pure Africans. No one has stated 'pure africans'apart from you and Beyoku. The video states, and I support that AE was a purely African civilisation. Ie. Founded by an indigenous African (No one mentioned sub saharan, once again that's you creating another strawman argument) civilisation. I don't subscribe to sub saharan, since all saharan cultures were trans saharan.
Also, because I know you will play semantics, let me explain the difference since willful stupidity seems to be the order of the day. My household is PURELY AFRICAN... ie. I'm African, my wife is African and my kids are African.... now that does not mean that everyone in my house is PURE AFRICANS... My wife has recent Portuguese ancestry, and I very well may have some admixture down the line... I don't dna test so I don't know, but I wouldn't be surprised. Therefore I would be amiss to describe myself or my children as PURE AFRICANS. Do you understand the difference? The fact both you and beyoku have twisted the semantics to create a ludicrous debate over PURE SUB SAHARANS either shows a height of dishonesty or a complete lack of reading and/or listening comprehension. You choose.
Posts: 365 | Registered: Dec 2008
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quote:Originally posted by beyoku: ANALYSIS : In the past 10-15 years traditional ideas regarding "physical race" SHOULD HAVE dissolved due to the realities of genomic research, particularly ancient Genomic research.
Dr. Keita cannot get enough credit for being FAR ahead of the curve regarding the "persistence of racial thinking" and instead went with a model that revolves around ideas if micro-adaptation as an evolutionary process in the human species due to external factors of environment/climate/diet/etc. In this model Physical "Race" has no genetic indicators as far as ancestry. This has been demonstrated time and time again, specifically with ancient fossils who's Genomic affinity precede the physical affinities found among the descendants (Phenotypic discontinuity combined with genetic continuity in West Asians, South Asians, South East Asians, East Asians, Europeans, Amerindians)
In the genetic space there has been considerable work uncovering the specifics of Continental African substructure which phases out simplistic ideas of "Sub Saharan African Blacks" being a monolith. There is also considerable data we should ALL be familiar with regarding the multiple wet phases of the Sahara that provide opportunities for geneflow between regions.
IMO and from my observations. The latest generation of "Black Egypt" proponents have regressed. They are discarding everything we have known and learned over the past 15 years and reverting back to ideas of discrete races to the advantage of Eurocentrist that used these tools to obfuscate identities in the first place. There is certain language we should be using. There are certain arguments we should be making based on NEW data and science. WE shouldn't be reverting back to ideas genetic "Purity" that border on pseudo science. Where is the balance? Who is going to clean up their mess?
Once again blowing down your own strawman. You yourself coined the phrase PURE AFRICANS, and now you're also talking about subsaharan purity? Wth are you on about? To say kemet was purely African is a fact agreed upon. You're just introducing this idea of genetic purity to win an argument that no one's trying to make! I stated that kemet was formed by an amalgamation of nilo saharan Africans, and now I'm pushing some kind of racially pure sub saharan pseudo science. Youre sounding like a eurocentric to me... I think your whole shtick is incredibly suss... I don't knownwho trusts you here or why...
Posts: 365 | Registered: Dec 2008
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The opening paragraph ( of Ancient Mummy Genomes -at Abusir El-Meleq, Schuenemann,2017) states: "Our analyzes reveal that ancient Egyptians shared more ancestry with near easterners than present-day Egyptians who received additional sub-Saharan admixture in more recent times" This is not an exercise of objective exploration but rather an attempt to lead the unsuspecting public towards support of the foreign rather than indigenous origin of ancient Egyptian people. In the end the study provided no representation for the possibility of an indigenous origin and seemed to suggest there was no indigenous material that made up ancient and modern Egyptians they are all simply the result of either Levantine or Mediterranean settlers. This robs not only Africa but also ancient and present Egyptians of an entirely African accomplishment. However in their attempt to hastily manipulate the public's trust and general lack of insight towards their own agenda the researchers inadvertently uncovered two massive confirmations of support to the ancient model that corroborates a purely African population inhabited ancient Egypt. The first Factor they've unwittingly exposed is the confirmation of modern Egyptians genetic similarity to ancient Greeks particularly in the North something that is increasingly being denied in an attempt to sell the modern Egyptian phenotype as an isolated and differentiated phenomenon independent from quote-unquote sub-Saharan Africa yet in reality it is well known that in excess of two million Greeks migrated into Egypt during the Ptolemaic period.
Published: 30 May 2017 Ancient Egyptian mummy genomes suggest an increase of Sub-Saharan African ancestry in post-Roman periods Verena J. Schuenemann,
excerpt DISCUSSION section:
The ancient DNA data revealed a high level of affinity between the ancient inhabitants of Abusir el-Meleq and modern populations from the Near East and the Levant. This finding is pertinent in the light of the hypotheses advanced by Pagani and colleagues, who estimated that the average proportion of non-African ancestry in Egyptians was 80% and dated the midpoint of this admixture event to around 750 years ago17. Our data seem to indicate close admixture and affinity at a much earlier date, which is unsurprising given the long and complex connections between Egypt and the Middle East. These connections date back to Prehistory and occurred at a variety of scales, including overland and maritime commerce, diplomacy, immigration, invasion and deportation54. Especially from the second millennium BCE onwards, there were intense, historically- and archaeologically documented contacts, including the large-scale immigration of Canaanite populations, known as the Hyksos, into Lower Egypt, whose origins lie in the Middle Bronze Age Levant54.
Our genetic time transect suggests genetic continuity between the Pre-Ptolemaic, Ptolemaic and Roman populations of Abusir el-Meleq, indicating that foreign rule impacted the towns population only to a very limited degree at the genetic level. It is possible that the genetic impact of Greek and Roman immigration was more pronounced in the north-western Delta and the Fayum, where most Greek and Roman settlement concentrated, or among the higher classes of Egyptian society. Under Ptolemaic and Roman rule, ethnic descent was crucial to belonging to an elite group and afforded a privileged position in society. Especially in the Roman Period there may have been significant legal and social incentives to marry within ones ethnic group, as individuals with Roman citizenship had to marry other Roman citizens to pass on their citizenship. Such policies are likely to have affected the intermarriage of Romans and non-Romans to a degree55. Additional genetic studies on ancient human remains from Egypt are needed with extensive geographical, social and chronological spread in order to expand our current picture in variety, accuracy and detail.
However, our results revise previous scepticism towards the DNA preservation in ancient Egyptian mummies due to climate conditions or mummification procedures8. The methodology presented here opens up promising avenues for future genetic research and can greatly contribute towards a more accurate and refined understanding of Egypts population history.
Posts: 42919 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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All people in this dabate participating in feelgoodism, its just it only called out when Afrocentrics do it because they're low hanging fruit. Calling folks Hoteps and spamming We Wuz Kangs is a popular past time for most of these "scholars" at the "big boy table"...
But Eurocentrics and Biodiversity scholars participating in feel-goodism, with their B/S this and that genetic study means A. Egyptian civilization was Levantine/European/Arabian. They playing like feel-good games as much as the Afrocentric...not one scrap of Archeological evidence from the Levant or Arabia showing a material origin of A. Egyptian civilization...but they say that B.S and are accepted in mainstream "academic" circles...
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Originally posted by beyoku: Black folk steadily getting played with feelgoodism fancy editing.
STR results from one set of mummies do not trump SNP results from a totally separate unrelated group of mummies. New studies putting a foot in that ass while we regurgitate 15 year old data with no new analysis. Rude Awakenings coming. Prepare.
So I assume that S.O.Y. Keita et al. was guilty of doing that in the 2020 article in the OP, the only chart they produced was based on the that old 2010 data, Keita indulging in feelgoodism
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Narmer Menes: Are we going to ignore that Nguni clustered as closest match to AE according to popaffiliator matching of autosomal dna of new kingdom pharaohs? Surely direct match with dna and clear cultural continuity is smoking gun territory...
what is you source? please include URL link
Posts: 42919 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Narmer Menes: Are we going to ignore that Nguni clustered as closest match to AE according to popaffiliator matching of autosomal dna of new kingdom pharaohs? Surely direct match with dna and clear cultural continuity is smoking gun territory...
what is you source? please include URL link
The south Africans from the very study you cited. Unless you're going to assume the south Africans that clustered are Khoisan peoples, which wouldn't make any sense in an ethno-cultural sense. South Africans clustered closest in the original autosomal study by DNA Tribes in 2014.
Posts: 365 | Registered: Dec 2008
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quote:Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-: All people in this dabate participating in feelgoodism, its just it only called out when Afrocentrics do it because they're low hanging fruit. Calling folks Hoteps and spamming We Wuz Kangs is a popular past time for most of these "scholars" at the "big boy table"...
But Eurocentrics and Biodiversity scholars participating in feel-goodism, with their B/S this and that genetic study means A. Egyptian civilization was Levantine/European/Arabian. They playing like feel-good games as much as the Afrocentric...not one scrap of Archeological evidence from the Levant or Arabia showing a material origin of A. Egyptian civilization...but they say that B.S and are accepted in mainstream "academic" circles...
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Originally posted by beyoku: Black folk steadily getting played with feelgoodism fancy editing.
STR results from one set of mummies do not trump SNP results from a totally separate unrelated group of mummies. New studies putting a foot in that ass while we regurgitate 15 year old data with no new analysis. Rude Awakenings coming. Prepare.
So I assume that S.O.Y. Keita et al. was guilty of doing that in the 2020 article in the OP, the only chart they produced was based on the that old 2010 data, Keita indulging in feelgoodism
The entire Krause study is feelgoodism. Egyptology is the father of feelgoodism. They post conclusions from foundational flawed studies and for some reason pay them respect even though the basis of their presentations are laughable at best. It is a disservice to claim feelgoodism is equal on both sides, name a eurocentric study that wasn't pure feelgoodism?
There is nothing feel good about Keith's study, the autosomal STR results are repeatable on any database. They don't require the anthropological logic twisting of single ancestry SNP haplogroups that tell you virtually NOTHING about a person's ancestry, yet many in this group hanging their hopes on it... in 500 years (20 generations) there are around million people that have contributed to your ancestry.... having both your mtdna and ydna will give you a total of 2 out of 1 million contributors to your ancestry? They determine ascent from descent... its pseudo science at its finest... but people on this group have committed so much time to debating this phenotype and ethnic descent nonsense that any geneticist worth their weight in salt will tell you is unscientific GUESS WORK that you call the people simply sharing the basic truths (that we should be focused on) ie. Cultural continuity, ethno-linguistics, biological traits, ancient depictions and descriptions etc... they now are the crack feel good isms... but haplogroup quackery... nooo... thats the real science... what a joke.
Posts: 365 | Registered: Dec 2008
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The opening paragraph ( of Ancient Mummy Genomes -at Abusir El-Meleq, Schuenemann,2017) states: "Our analyzes reveal that ancient Egyptians shared more ancestry with near easterners than present-day Egyptians who received additional sub-Saharan admixture in more recent times" This is not an exercise of objective exploration but rather an attempt to lead the unsuspecting public towards support of the foreign rather than indigenous origin of ancient Egyptian people. In the end the study provided no representation for the possibility of an indigenous origin and seemed to suggest there was no indigenous material that made up ancient and modern Egyptians they are all simply the result of either Levantine or Mediterranean settlers. This robs not only Africa but also ancient and present Egyptians of an entirely African accomplishment. However in their attempt to hastily manipulate the public's trust and general lack of insight towards their own agenda the researchers inadvertently uncovered two massive confirmations of support to the ancient model that corroborates a purely African population inhabited ancient Egypt. The first Factor they've unwittingly exposed is the confirmation of modern Egyptians genetic similarity to ancient Greeks particularly in the North something that is increasingly being denied in an attempt to sell the modern Egyptian phenotype as an isolated and differentiated phenomenon independent from quote-unquote sub-Saharan Africa yet in reality it is well known that in excess of two million Greeks migrated into Egypt during the Ptolemaic period.
Published: 30 May 2017 Ancient Egyptian mummy genomes suggest an increase of Sub-Saharan African ancestry in post-Roman periods Verena J. Schuenemann,
excerpt DISCUSSION section:
The ancient DNA data revealed a high level of affinity between the ancient inhabitants of Abusir el-Meleq and modern populations from the Near East and the Levant. This finding is pertinent in the light of the hypotheses advanced by Pagani and colleagues, who estimated that the average proportion of non-African ancestry in Egyptians was 80% and dated the midpoint of this admixture event to around 750 years ago17. Our data seem to indicate close admixture and affinity at a much earlier date, which is unsurprising given the long and complex connections between Egypt and the Middle East. These connections date back to Prehistory and occurred at a variety of scales, including overland and maritime commerce, diplomacy, immigration, invasion and deportation54. Especially from the second millennium BCE onwards, there were intense, historically- and archaeologically documented contacts, including the large-scale immigration of Canaanite populations, known as the Hyksos, into Lower Egypt, whose origins lie in the Middle Bronze Age Levant54.
Our genetic time transect suggests genetic continuity between the Pre-Ptolemaic, Ptolemaic and Roman populations of Abusir el-Meleq, indicating that foreign rule impacted the towns population only to a very limited degree at the genetic level. It is possible that the genetic impact of Greek and Roman immigration was more pronounced in the north-western Delta and the Fayum, where most Greek and Roman settlement concentrated, or among the higher classes of Egyptian society. Under Ptolemaic and Roman rule, ethnic descent was crucial to belonging to an elite group and afforded a privileged position in society. Especially in the Roman Period there may have been significant legal and social incentives to marry within ones ethnic group, as individuals with Roman citizenship had to marry other Roman citizens to pass on their citizenship. Such policies are likely to have affected the intermarriage of Romans and non-Romans to a degree55. Additional genetic studies on ancient human remains from Egypt are needed with extensive geographical, social and chronological spread in order to expand our current picture in variety, accuracy and detail.
However, our results revise previous scepticism towards the DNA preservation in ancient Egyptian mummies due to climate conditions or mummification procedures8. The methodology presented here opens up promising avenues for future genetic research and can greatly contribute towards a more accurate and refined understanding of Egypts population history.
The problem is Lioness, that you are quoting from liars. Abusir el meleq is a KNOWN burial ground for Fayuum officials.... its known throughout egyptology.
"The cemetery continued to be used for centuries, with the earlier shaft tombs being filled with later burials from the Greek, Roman, and Islamic periods. Thousands of individuals were buried at the site over hundreds of years of use."
You guys can't keep quoting these guys lies and taking them as truths. It's funny, someone actually does the ground work of providing the evidence of this and they accused of feelgoodism, yet you guys are quoting the feelgoodism masters and taking their word for it. They even mentioned in the study they had NO CONTEXT for any of the mummies that they sampled... ie, they could have been anybody. They dated the mummies based on the age of the TOMBS they were found in... but article above proves none of the tombs had the original mummies in them
quote:Originally posted by Narmer Menes: The problem is Lioness, that you are quoting from liars. Abusir el meleq is a KNOWN burial ground for Fayuum officials.... its known throughout egyptology.
I post sources including articles titles and links, you don't
I posted that King's Monologue video quote to show he used the term " a purely African population inhabited ancient Egypt." because that term was being talked about in the thread
I posted that so people can judge his choice of terms in context of the paragraph
I also included his remarks on Greeks a separate issue but something he focuses on in the video
and I posted Schuenemann,2017 Ancient Mummy Genomes article and some of her her remarks on Greeks because he was reacting to that article
I didn't comment, the purpose is that we have easy access to the exact quotes to then comment on.
Posts: 42919 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Narmer Menes: Are we going to ignore that Nguni clustered as closest match to AE according to popaffiliator matching of autosomal dna of new kingdom pharaohs? Surely direct match with dna and clear cultural continuity is smoking gun territory...
what is you source? please include URL link
The south Africans from the very study you cited. Unless you're going to assume the south Africans that clustered are Khoisan peoples, which wouldn't make any sense in an ethno-cultural sense. South Africans clustered closest in the original autosomal study by DNA Tribes in 2014.
No I never mentioned DNA Tribes I mentioned S.O.Y. Keita's 2020 article and showed the chart from it
^^ this article has 13 references at the bottom, none are DNA Tribes
And even if we refer to DNA Tribes, I don't think you are quoting them properly and you have no links, so you can't back your claims as to accurately what they said
Posts: 42919 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Originally posted by beyoku: -Northern Egypt contains the presence of Levantine specific (PPNB) lithic toolkits and arrow heads in predynastic times.
-Egypt received an entire agricultural package from the Near East that ultimately replaced their local Saharo-Sahelian derived domesticates.
-Egypt received domesticated sheep and Goats from the Near East as far back as 9000 years ago.
-Keita speaks of actual "Levantines" in Northern Egypt based on the discontinuity of tropical limbs in some predynastic Northern samples associated with levantine material culture.
-Semitic and Cushitic speakers in Sub Saharan Africa carry Non African derived light skin alleles. These groups non Local Ancestry is strongly tied to the Eastern Sahara and Egypto-Nubia. Thus It is HIGHLY LIKELY these light skin variants existing in the SOURCE population of pastoral migrants FROM North Africa.
ALL These instances provide opportunities (and evidence) for Geneflow during the predynastic leading to Near Eastern Ancestry being a part of Pharaonic Egyptian's Ethnogenesis. Arguments of Genetic purity are stupid and wrong. Arguments about racial purity are even dumber. In 2023 if we are not intellectually mature enough to recognize Non African contributions of Food producing Technology and or Ancestry into Egypt (Before we even QUANTIFY it) then we are not ready to sit at the "big boy table". Time to put on those Big Boy Pants. There is no need to rehash 20 year old arguments from Egyptsearch.
Keita said, in his lecture that the domesticates were received without cultural replacement or large migration and or population replacement.
quote: " the culture there is no evidence that something called the Egyptian community or Egyptian culture was created in Syria and that a whole community of people came to the Nile Valley do things like that happen sure"
Shomarka Omar Yahya M.D
"
quote: 9,000 years ago the rains had returned to Africa so to speak and the lake levels were all high we had lake mega Chad there were River there were rivers running as a hare this way and it is at this moment in time that we see people moving back into the Sahara in fact they're not a lot of sights in the now valley at this time and the people who enter Sahara when conditions get worse eventually move into the valley so when we look at the pre-dynastic cultures of early egypt we see influences from the Sahara we have Levantine influences as I mentioned in a sheep goat cattle the animals that were domesticated they actually wind up in the Sahara before they are in the Nile Valley we find evidence in some cases of for example goats and goat remains uh we think they're goat remains in terms of the early pre-dynastic there's a culture called the tazian in which people have generally put together with the badarian but the tasian has a particular kind of beaker tulip shape that has this ancestry clearly seems to have originated in the Sudan up and down the Nile Valley from the Neolithic but probably ultimately of Saharan origin and not found in the Near East[ /QUOTE]
[QUOTE]Cambridge Oxford guys you know talked about the pre-dynastic race of Egypt == they say and in the main a blending of various proportion of semites and Negro and this is from an old book the earliest inhabitants of Abydos well what's very interesting about that is this is forum what type illogical perspective you get something that's in the middle that seems to have different traits well I would argue no it's not a blending of anything it's just own people they're from a bio geographical perspective evolved right there in Northeast Africa
-------------------- It's not my burden to disabuse the ignorant of their wrong opinions Posts: 2699 | From: New York | Registered: Jun 2015
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quote:Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-: All people in this dabate participating in feelgoodism, its just it only called out when Afrocentrics do it because they're low hanging fruit. Calling folks Hoteps and spamming We Wuz Kangs is a popular past time for most of these "scholars" at the "big boy table"...
But Eurocentrics and Biodiversity scholars participating in feel-goodism, with their B/S this and that genetic study means A. Egyptian civilization was Levantine/European/Arabian. They playing like feel-good games as much as the Afrocentric...not one scrap of Archeological evidence from the Levant or Arabia showing a material origin of A. Egyptian civilization...but they say that B.S and are accepted in mainstream "academic" circles...
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Originally posted by beyoku: Black folk steadily getting played with feelgoodism fancy editing.
STR results from one set of mummies do not trump SNP results from a totally separate unrelated group of mummies. New studies putting a foot in that ass while we regurgitate 15 year old data with no new analysis. Rude Awakenings coming. Prepare.
So I assume that S.O.Y. Keita et al. was guilty of doing that in the 2020 article in the OP, the only chart they produced was based on the that old 2010 data, Keita indulging in feelgoodism
The entire Krause study is feelgoodism. Egyptology is the father of feelgoodism. They post conclusions from foundational flawed studies and for some reason pay them respect even though the basis of their presentations are laughable at best. It is a disservice to claim feelgoodism is equal on both sides, name a eurocentric study that wasn't pure feelgoodism?
There is nothing feel good about Keith's study, the autosomal STR results are repeatable on any database. They don't require the anthropological logic twisting of single ancestry SNP haplogroups that tell you virtually NOTHING about a person's ancestry, yet many in this group hanging their hopes on it... in 500 years (20 generations) there are around million people that have contributed to your ancestry.... having both your mtdna and ydna will give you a total of 2 out of 1 million contributors to your ancestry? They determine ascent from descent... its pseudo science at its finest... but people on this group have committed so much time to debating this phenotype and ethnic descent nonsense that any geneticist worth their weight in salt will tell you is unscientific GUESS WORK that you call the people simply sharing the basic truths (that we should be focused on) ie. Cultural continuity, ethno-linguistics, biological traits, ancient depictions and descriptions etc... they now are the crack feel good isms... but haplogroup quackery... nooo... thats the real science... what a joke.
This!
Christopher Ehret.....
quote:Some of you may have seen or heard about a recent genetics article that makes the ancient Egyptians out to be Levantines. Let me be very clear. These findings come from one locale in a large stretch of possible locales in northern Egypt, and the finds date well after the foundational periods of ancient Egypt. It's somewhat as if I was thinking of this particular image. Rather than investigating DNA from a 17th century cemetery in Plymouth, we instead choose to investigate DNA from a later 19th century cemetery in south Boston. And then we conclude, having done that, that the United States was founded by people of Irish descent, and then Americans were predominantly-- are predominantly Irish. Well, that isn't necessarily how the writers of the article meant it to be interpreted, but that's certainly the way I've had people interpreting it to me, even someone with a Coptic--seemed to be a Coptic last name from the sounds of things berating me for being such a terrible human being all these years in my whole career for ever having thought of Egypt as being African. So, anyway, there is a deeper problem here. Genetics may be able to tell us about the different elements in our individual genetic physical ancestries, ancestries that we may have partaken, come from in our individual cells. But genes do not at all determine language. It's our own historical, cultural life experiences, personal experiences that determine what language you speak, not our genes. And we need only look around at each other here in the room to know the truth of that. And it is these experiences also that shape our culture choices and our choice of cultural self-identification. Again, not our genes. It's our historical and cultural experiences
.
-------------------- It's not my burden to disabuse the ignorant of their wrong opinions Posts: 2699 | From: New York | Registered: Jun 2015
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in 2014 independent researchers utilized the matching algorithms of existing Str databases to conduct an analyzes on the autosomal DNA results published by Dr Hawass in February 2010 the results were definite and conclusive all of the pharonic mummies clustered incontrovertibly close to Modern sub-Saharan Africans at a rate of 70 to 94 genetic Affinity
I can't remember if I saw that image in the video where Yes I have seen the 8 STRs' marker boxes part of it But I don't recall seeing the lower part: "Population Assignments Population Group Probability Sub-Saharan African 93.4%"
did somebody post that in 2014 with that percentage on it? I don't remember seeing DNA Tribes putting those percentages in one of their digest articles, I could be wrong, maybe it was written in text somewhere (but then ES members would have been shouting it from the rooftops)
^^^BUT here it has the same percentages But this article is August 2020 (pre print 2018) and it says there:
quote: Contributions J-P.G and S.O.Y Keita performed the PopAffialiator analysis, drew tables, wrote and reviewed the maingenetic, statistical, anthropological and Egyptology portions of the article. J-L. G wrote and review the statistical portion. A.A wrote and reviewed Egyptological/linguistics portion.
It took Keita 8-10 years to make this chart? seems a bit late (probably why King's Monologue says "independent researchers" instead of Keita, since that dates it 2018, not 2014) It was also a low profile self published article Then in the same year 2020, October, Hawass affiliate Yehia Gad et al came out with the Nature Communications article in October:
Insights from ancient DNA analysis of Egyptian human mummies: clues to disease and kinship
this was using 2010 samples from his earlier 2010 article but this time HGs were reported. But unlike Schuenemann/Krause 2017 the emphasis was on kinship not ethnicity and they didn't go making press releases hyping R1b to the media
And they doesn't exactly dovetail expectations, Yuya being predicted by PopAffiliator, according to Keita 93.7% African whilst Gad reporting YDNA Haplogroup G2 !
Posts: 42919 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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posted
Lioness, do you realise yDNA makes up for less than 2% of your available ancestry and an infinitesimally tiny fraction of your total ancestry. Also, it's not been disproven that G2 was present in Africa, it clearly was, so its current proliferation or movement since is irrelevant. So it's very possible and likely that both are true.
You guys are fighting a losing battle trying to prove race from subclades. It's infinitely stupid.
Posts: 365 | Registered: Dec 2008
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quote:Originally posted by Narmer Menes: Are we going to ignore that Nguni clustered as closest match to AE according to popaffiliator matching of autosomal dna of new kingdom pharaohs? Surely direct match with dna and clear cultural continuity is smoking gun territory...
what is you source? please include URL link
The south Africans from the very study you cited. Unless you're going to assume the south Africans that clustered are Khoisan peoples, which wouldn't make any sense in an ethno-cultural sense. South Africans clustered closest in the original autosomal study by DNA Tribes in 2014.
No I never mentioned DNA Tribes I mentioned S.O.Y. Keita's 2020 article and showed the chart from it
^^ this article has 13 references at the bottom, none are DNA Tribes
And even if we refer to DNA Tribes, I don't think you are quoting them properly and you have no links, so you can't back your claims as to accurately what they said
posted
Skip, has both European Ydna & Mtdna lineages, married a white women, and still got arrested like a regular Negro..
As would any "Natufian like" North African, showing up in an all white neighborhood in America... smh
-------------------- It's not my burden to disabuse the ignorant of their wrong opinions Posts: 2699 | From: New York | Registered: Jun 2015
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quote:Originally posted by Yatunde Lisa Bey: Skip, has both European Ydna & Mtdna lineages, married a white women, and still got arrested like a regular Negro..
As would any "Natufian like" North African, showing up in an all white neighborhood in America... smh
As if white people never get arrested in USA, or Mexicans, or Native Americans.
-------------------- Once an archaeologist, always an archaeologist Posts: 2684 | From: Sweden | Registered: Mar 2020
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quote:Originally posted by Yatunde Lisa Bey: Skip, has both European Ydna & Mtdna lineages, married a white women, and still got arrested like a regular Negro..
As would any "Natufian like" North African, showing up in an all white neighborhood in America... smh
As if white people never get arrested in USA, or Mexicans, or Native Americans.
quote:On July 22, President Barack Obama said about the incident, "I don't know, not having been there and not seeing all the facts, what role race played in that. But I think it's fair to say, number one, any of us would be pretty angry; number two, that the Cambridge police acted stupidly in arresting somebody when there was already proof that they were in their own home, and, number three, what I think we know separate and apart from this incident is that there's a long history in this country of African Americans and Latinos being stopped by law enforcement disproportionately ."
Let's be clear, Gates was arrested for challenging a white man...
quote: Sergeant Crowley arrived at the scene, went up to the front door, and asked Gates to step outside. Crowley explained he was investigating the report of a break-in in progress; as he did so, Gates opened the front door and said, "Why, because I'm a black man in America?
It is being stopped by the police disproportionately that makes it getting arrested like a regular negro.
-------------------- It's not my burden to disabuse the ignorant of their wrong opinions Posts: 2699 | From: New York | Registered: Jun 2015
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quote:Originally posted by Yatunde Lisa Bey: Skip, has both European Ydna & Mtdna lineages, married a white women, and still got arrested like a regular Negro..
As would any "Natufian like" North African, showing up in an all white neighborhood in America... smh
Deserves everything he gets. Sold his soul to push eurocentric propoganda
Posts: 365 | Registered: Dec 2008
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quote:Originally posted by Yatunde Lisa Bey: Skip, has both European Ydna & Mtdna lineages, married a white women, and still got arrested like a regular Negro..
As would any "Natufian like" North African, showing up in an all white neighborhood in America... smh
Deserves everything he gets. Sold his soul to push eurocentric propoganda
Facts!... and now wants to play Johnny come lately
-------------------- It's not my burden to disabuse the ignorant of their wrong opinions Posts: 2699 | From: New York | Registered: Jun 2015
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quote:Originally posted by Yatunde Lisa Bey: Skip, has both European Ydna & Mtdna lineages, married a white women, and still got arrested like a regular Negro..
As would any "Natufian like" North African, showing up in an all white neighborhood in America... smh
Deserves everything he gets. Sold his soul to push eurocentric propoganda
Facts!... and now wants to play Johnny come lately
posted
So at least today people are giving ancient Swedes their due respect and not making theories that they were too stupid to produce their own culture and civilization.
quote:Originally posted by Archeopteryx:
quote:Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-: Ok, so then imagine if people were saying, since Ancient Swedes have Eurasian ancestry their whole material culture is Russian or Arabian etc. That's exactly what people are doing with A. Egypt.
Actually once there existed such ideas regarding Sweden too, that our culture came from all kinds of places. Some have claimed that parts of Scandinavian pagan religion came from Greece or Rome. Others claimed that it came from the east (Russia, Ukraine, Caucasus, even India) and so on. Some have claimed that Scandinavian bronze age culture had itīs roots in Minoan Crete, Mycenaean Greece or even Egypt.
The origin of grave types, hillforts, all kinds of artifacts, buildings and other material things have also been discussed, with all kinds of suggestions (Greece, Rome, the muslim world, eastern Europe, Middle East and others).
Some have for example seen Roman cavalry helmets or Iranian helmets in Swedish helmets from the Vendel time (550-800 AD).
We have also had a lot of ideas that goes the other way, that most of the European culture originally came from Scandinavia. Once some people here even claimed that the garden of Eden was located in southern Sweden and that Adam was a Swede. Some have claimed that Odysseus was a Scandinavian and that his adventures took place in the Baltic sea and not in the Mediterranean. So Sweden and Scandinavia have also had itīs share of wild ideas and speculations. Even fake monuments have been manufactured that was said to prove certain things.
Some of these speculations have survived online but the serious researchers have mostly left them behind.
Today migrations and genes are in vogue and are discussed in many papers, and also online.
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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posted
The funny part is every single one of them, EVERY SINGLE ONE, knows what you are saying. If I know they know, but its easier to hoodwink and play games because they know the public at large knows even less than I do, which isn't much.
Its why they choose to name their DNA studies with Dog-Whistling titles
I remember vaguely that even mainstream Egyptologists were having to respond to hate mail/critics that were upset that Egyptology was lying about Egypt being "European"...after that dog-whistling Abusier study...
Notice none of them studying language, culture, archeology, history or anything else except DNA, because its easier to gaslight with DNA, they actually gotta go and find primary evidence of A. Egypt in the Levant/Arabia/Europe and present it in a peer review to be taken serious in any other field.
quote:Originally posted by Narmer Menes:
quote:Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-: All people in this dabate participating in feelgoodism, its just it only called out when Afrocentrics do it because they're low hanging fruit. Calling folks Hoteps and spamming We Wuz Kangs is a popular past time for most of these "scholars" at the "big boy table"...
But Eurocentrics and Biodiversity scholars participating in feel-goodism, with their B/S this and that genetic study means A. Egyptian civilization was Levantine/European/Arabian. They playing like feel-good games as much as the Afrocentric...not one scrap of Archeological evidence from the Levant or Arabia showing a material origin of A. Egyptian civilization...but they say that B.S and are accepted in mainstream "academic" circles...
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Originally posted by beyoku: Black folk steadily getting played with feelgoodism fancy editing.
STR results from one set of mummies do not trump SNP results from a totally separate unrelated group of mummies. New studies putting a foot in that ass while we regurgitate 15 year old data with no new analysis. Rude Awakenings coming. Prepare.
So I assume that S.O.Y. Keita et al. was guilty of doing that in the 2020 article in the OP, the only chart they produced was based on the that old 2010 data, Keita indulging in feelgoodism
The entire Krause study is feelgoodism. Egyptology is the father of feelgoodism. They post conclusions from foundational flawed studies and for some reason pay them respect even though the basis of their presentations are laughable at best. It is a disservice to claim feelgoodism is equal on both sides, name a eurocentric study that wasn't pure feelgoodism?
There is nothing feel good about Keith's study, the autosomal STR results are repeatable on any database. They don't require the anthropological logic twisting of single ancestry SNP haplogroups that tell you virtually NOTHING about a person's ancestry, yet many in this group hanging their hopes on it... in 500 years (20 generations) there are around million people that have contributed to your ancestry.... having both your mtdna and ydna will give you a total of 2 out of 1 million contributors to your ancestry? They determine ascent from descent... its pseudo science at its finest... but people on this group have committed so much time to debating this phenotype and ethnic descent nonsense that any geneticist worth their weight in salt will tell you is unscientific GUESS WORK that you call the people simply sharing the basic truths (that we should be focused on) ie. Cultural continuity, ethno-linguistics, biological traits, ancient depictions and descriptions etc... they now are the crack feel good isms... but haplogroup quackery... nooo... thats the real science... what a joke.
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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quote:Notice none of them studying language, culture, archeology, history or anything else except DNA, because its easier to gaslight with DNA, they actually gotta go and find primary evidence of A. Egypt in the Levant/Arabia/Europe and present it in a peer review to be taken serious in any other field.
This! The whole purpose of the White Supremacy enterprise of Egyptology/Eugenic Dna studies is to delay delay delay the truth....
-------------------- It's not my burden to disabuse the ignorant of their wrong opinions Posts: 2699 | From: New York | Registered: Jun 2015
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posted
I'm not sure what Jari is referring to, but for over 50 years now, most experts in the fields of history and anthropology have dismissed the notion that ancient Egyptian culture originated from a subset of Levantine culture. It seems like you're using this claim to bolster your Afrocentric perspective and make it seem more reasonable or neutral, but even if we accept that ancient Egyptians were indigenous to the region, that doesn't necessarily mean that they were similar to your ancestors. Genetic and morphological data clearly indicate that they differed significantly from West Africans. In fact, Arabs or light-skinned imazighen would be more genetically similar to ancient Egyptians and lower Nubians than you, regardless of whether their culture was "african" or not and this is the crux of the debate we're having here.
Posts: 1779 | From: Somewhere In the Rif Mountains | Registered: Nov 2021
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quote:Originally posted by Antalas: I'm not sure what Jari is referring to, but for over 50 years now, most experts in the fields of history and anthropology have dismissed the notion that ancient Egyptian culture originated from a subset of Levantine culture. It seems like you're using this claim to bolster your Afrocentric perspective and make it seem more reasonable or neutral, but even if we accept that ancient Egyptians were indigenous to the region, that doesn't necessarily mean that they were similar to your ancestors. Genetic and morphological data clearly indicate that they differed significantly from West Africans. In fact, Arabs or light-skinned imazighen would be more genetically similar to ancient Egyptians and lower Nubians than you, regardless of whether their culture was "african" or not and this is the crux of the debate we're having here.
Which West Africans?
-------------------- It's not my burden to disabuse the ignorant of their wrong opinions Posts: 2699 | From: New York | Registered: Jun 2015
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Genetic and morphological data clearly indicate that they differed significantly from West Africans. In fact, Arabs or light-skinned imazighen would be more genetically similar to ancient Egyptians and lower Nubians than you, regardless of whether their culture was "african" or not and this is the crux of the debate we're having here.
Yehia Gad of the Hawass team describes the amount of Egyptian aDNA that has been tested is "scanty"
Posts: 42919 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Antalas: I'm not sure what Jari is referring to, but for over 50 years now, most experts in the fields of history and anthropology have dismissed the notion that ancient Egyptian culture originated from a subset of Levantine culture. It seems like you're using this claim to bolster your Afrocentric perspective and make it seem more reasonable or neutral, but even if we accept that ancient Egyptians were indigenous to the region, that doesn't necessarily mean that they were similar to your ancestors. Genetic and morphological data clearly indicate that they differed significantly from West Africans. In fact, Arabs or light-skinned imazighen would be more genetically similar to ancient Egyptians and lower Nubians than you, regardless of whether their culture was "african" or not and this is the crux of the debate we're having here.
Based on which datasets? Fair skinned north Africans are not tropically adapted and have limb proportions closer to Eurasians. What are you basing these correlations on? Genotype, phenotype, biology, culture.... what exactly? please be specific and then qualify it with data to support.
Posts: 365 | Registered: Dec 2008
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That always has been an African man. I was never fooled by what is clearly a chemical reaction and thousands of years of hair compression.
Posts: 365 | Registered: Dec 2008
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quote:Originally posted by Narmer Menes: That always has been an African man. I was never fooled by what is clearly a chemical reaction and thousands of years of hair compression.
How do you know how what his hair texture type was while alive?
Posts: 42919 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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posted
These race arguments are becoming pathetic with all of these damn strawmen arguments. Except for an extreme fringe group of people, N O ONE stated that ancient Egyptians came from nor looked liked MODERN DAY West Africans, yall need to quit using that damn strawman. West and Central Africans aren't the only black people in Africa, plenty live in Northeast, East, the Sahara, and southern Africa.
Posts: 2595 | From: Vicksburg | Registered: Feb 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Narmer Menes: Fair skinned north Africans are not tropically adapted and have limb proportions closer to Eurasians. What are you basing these correlations on? Genotype, phenotype, biology, culture.... what exactly? please be specific and then qualify it with data to support.
Population Affinities of the Jebel Sahaba Skeletal Sample: Limb Proportion Evidence T. W. HOLLIDAY 2013
The Ain Dokhara specimen also falls within the scatter of recent African means. In contrast, none of the Afalou specimens, nor of the El Wad Natufian specimens, falls within the African scatter, and all lie toward the more cold-adapted end of the scatter. As was the case with the bivariate analyses, among the prehistoric skeletons, Afalou 28 looks the most extreme in its cold-adapted morphology, and note that this specimen was recovered some 2 m below the other human remains at the site Posts: 42919 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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