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The exact date of these artifacts is unknown. Which came first is unknown.
Royal Cylinder Seal of Uruk, Sumeria
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Narmer Palette
The serpopard, featured in both of these pieces is a term applied by some modern researchers to what is described as a mythical animal known from Ancient Egyptian depictions. This term is not used in any original texts, and is an interpretation made only recently.The Serpopard had a feline body, a very long neck that curves in snake-like manner and the head of a leopard (or lioness) . It alone was thought to attack other animals. The image is featured specifically on decorated cosmetic palettes from the Pre-Dynastic Period. Examples include the Narmer Palette and the Small Palette of Nekhen (Hierakonopolis) as well as on magic wands. Otherwise is is not too common. The image exists in other contemporary cultures as well and the cylinder seal displayed to the right displays the motif very clearly.
Cylinder seals were used by Mesopotamians as ownership stamps. Plain stamps of ceramic have been discovered as early as the Ubaid period of Mesopotamia (early 6th millennium), but the intricately carved cylinder seals occur during the Uruk period.
xyyman Member # 13597
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source??
viola75 Member # 17981
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this would only confirm that the ubadians and there descendants were sudanese i:e sudanese
Wally Member # 2936
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quote:Originally posted by the lioness: The exact date of these artifacts is unknown. Which came first is unknown...
Because YOU don't know doesn't mean that it is unknown...
quote:A serpopard is a mythological animal, often seen carved on cosmetic palettes (used for mixing antimony as eye shadow), during the Old Kingdom of Egypt. These palettes were made in the earliest days of history, before the pharaohs.
A serpopard looks like a leopard; however it has a very long neck unlike a leopard. In the carved pictures, they are seen being led by ropes and harnesses while they serve the Egyptians as domesticated animals. Skilled Egyptian artists always carved real animals in exactly the right shape, but the serpopard is thought to be only a mythological creature. In a later time, a similar creature would be shown in the art of Sumer and Elam. http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serpopard
On Narmer's pallette, these creatures are used literally to represent the unification of Upper and Lower Kemet.
a variation of this Mdu Ntr word...
...
anguishofbeing Member # 16736
posted ^ the influence of KMT.
the lioness Member # 17353
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quote:Originally posted by anguishofbeing: ^ the influence of KMT.
that might be true but it is an assumption
Wally Member # 2936
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quote:Originally posted by anguishofbeing: ^ the influence of KMT.
Exactly, and only one of the many symbols of the Kememou that were borrowed by later cultures; I.E.,
Original winged sun of Kemet c3000 BC
Aramaean winged sun c950-875 BC
Assyrian winged sun c800 BC
...
the lioness Member # 17353
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I think influence went in both directions as today:
Relief of early chariots on the Standard of Ur,Sumeria, ca. 2500 BC
The chariot, together with the horse itself, was introduced to Egypt by the Hyksos invaders in the 1500's BC
anguishofbeing Member # 16736
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The chariot was known to Africans long before the Hyksos.
Djehuti Member # 6698
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quote:Originally posted by viola75: this would only confirm that the ubadians and their descendants were sudanese i:e sudanese
I wouldn't call the Ubaidians "Sudanese" as they and their culture weren't really African but Asiatic. However, there is no doubt the Ubaidians had ties to early Arabian peoples of African origin or the Natufians of the Levant.
quote:Originally posted by Wally:
quote:Originally posted by the lioness: The exact date of these artifacts is unknown. Which came first is unknown...
Because YOU don't know doesn't mean that it is unknown...
quote:A serpopard is a mythological animal, often seen carved on cosmetic palettes (used for mixing antimony as eye shadow), during the Old Kingdom of Egypt. These palettes were made in the earliest days of history, before the pharaohs.
A serpopard looks like a leopard; however it has a very long neck unlike a leopard. In the carved pictures, they are seen being led by ropes and harnesses while they serve the Egyptians as domesticated animals. Skilled Egyptian artists always carved real animals in exactly the right shape, but the serpopard is thought to be only a mythological creature. In a later time, a similar creature would be shown in the art of Sumer and Elam. http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serpopard
On Narmer's pallette, these creatures are used literally to represent the unification of Upper and Lower Kemet.
a variation of this Mdu Ntr word...
...
Correct. This issue of Sumerian influence was discussed many times before. Many of these motifs from the 'serpopard' to the 'hero holding beasts at bay' have its earliest known examples in the Eastern Sahara.
Details from a tomb painting from Hierakonpolis, from prehistoric Egypt's Naqada culture. A new study suggests the Naqada people, the earlier Badarians and the later Egyptians were essentially the same group. The painting shows a procession of boats, one of which has an awning "sheltering a figure who is probably the ruler and the person for whom the tomb was built," writes Toby Wilkinson in the book Predynastic Egypt. The artwork shows "the ruler engaged in various activities—including a ritual water-borne procession, perhaps an ancestor of some of the later festivals of kingship," Wilkinson writes, and "sought to express the multiple roles of the king in relation to his people and the supernatural." Remarkable, he adds, "is the number of features characteristic of classic Egyptian art," present already 300 years before pharaohs inaugurated classic Egyptian civilization by unifying the land around 3,100 B.C. A man holding apart two wild animals in the lower left is a type of "hero" or "master of the beasts" figure found in other artworks of its time, Wilkinson adds.
Djehuti Member # 6698
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quote:Originally posted by the lyingass: I think influence went in both directions as today:
Relief of early chariots on the Standard of Ur,Sumeria, ca. 2500 BC
The chariot, together with the horse itself, was introduced to Egypt by the Hyksos invaders in the 1500's BC
Nobody denies influence went in both directions; however what YOU deny is that early Egyptian culture was NOT the result of influence but was totally an indigenous (African) effort. On the other hand, your examples of the serpopard merely show African influence in Asia!
the lioness Member # 17353
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: Correct. This issue of Sumerian influence was discussed many times before. Many of these motifs from the 'serpopard' to the 'hero holding beasts at bay' have its earliest known examples in the Eastern Sahara.
I might believe this if you were to show or cite from a credible source an image of the long necked serpopard in the Eastern Sahara prior to the dynastic period of Egypt. I was not able to find such an example. In Egypt it was only known to be on two early palettes and a few apotropaic wands also early.
viola75 Member # 17981
posted
Originally posted by viola75:
this would only confirm that the ubadians and their descendants were sudanese i:e sudanese
I wouldn't call the Ubaidians "Sudanese" as they and their culture weren't really African but Asiatic. However, there is no doubt the Ubaidians had ties to early Arabian peoples of African origin or the Natufians of the Levant
i was meant to say "their descendants were natufians i:e sudanese" sorry about that.
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