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Great early west african civilizations.
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by kenndo: [QB] EDITED- I THINK THERE is a way to be objective to a certain extent about civilizations.The arabs and berbers were when they compared india with europe in the middle ages and with other civilizations. Another point-even if arabs and berbers had some bias WHEN they compared other civilizations to thier own you could still read between the lines.example- women had certain restrictions in mali but arab and berber writers criticized mandinka women in medieval mali because they were allowed too much freedom. They went about unveiled and with thier breast showing at times,some women did this at times more than others,and they talked freely with men-other than thier husbands-on the streets,and in some places women had stalls in the market place. In the 1200'S,1400'S AND MORE SO IN THE 1300's mali was one of the greatest empire's of the time and one of the richest.The SONGHAY WAS EVEN RICHER.Again this info is in school books and not hidden.IN SCHOOL BOOKS I HAVE READ IN the past they do leave out certain bacic facts however. The mali kingdom broke free in 1550 a.d. because they used the military tactics of the songhay just like the songhay earlier used the military tactics to break free from mali.I DO NOT KNOW TODAY HOW THIS INFO is taught in schools.THE MANDE had a new empire in early modern times and they did had primitive guns and they did know how to make them.I DO NOT KNOW HOW RICH THEY BECAME in early modern times,but the mande in mali did become more rich again and there were improvements in the cities and more widespread learning again after in 1600's and later like it was in the 1500's and earlier. IT WAS AFTER THE MOORS INVADED that widespread learning slowed down in the late 1500's but widespread learning pick up again like i said in the 1600's and more so later. [QUOTE]Originally posted by Doug M: [qb] [QUOTE]Originally posted by kenndo: [qb] I HAD TOO edit SOME THINGS HERE - [QUOTE]Originally posted by kenndo: [qb] [QUOTE]Originally posted by ausar: [qb] [QUOTE]Anyway, I think kenndo does have a point. In medieval times, West Africa may have had the most advanced civilisations in the world if you consider Timbuktu, Songhay, Yoruba etc Correct me if I'm wrong but Egypt was down by that time and Europeans/Arabs had declined into savagery at the time (later to be "re-enlightened" by the Moors?). Maybe China was doing something big at the time, don't know for sure...[/QUOTE]Europeans except for the Byzantine was in the dark ages. Arabs had the various Islamic caliphs that preserved Greco-Roman knowleadge and improved upon it. In India you had mathematical,scientific,and medical breakthroughs. Look up the oldest University in existence called Taxtila in modern day Pakistan and Nalanda in India. Most of the knowledge that was transplanted to Europe came from India via the House of Wisdom in Abbassid Iraq. During the Middle Ages the most advanced were the people of India and China. [/qb][/QUOTE]I have TO DISAGREE with you on this one.let's not forget that the arabs built upon the knowledge of india and it was sent to africa,and the west africans made advances when they got this knowledge later in mali they made some more advances more so on their own,in science,etc. A FRENCH MAN went to djenne and took physician and a wife back to france. this doctor treated the future french king .west africa was known for thier advanced medical practices.Djenne was also a well known medical center and leo africanus and al-kati agreed that the physicians there had advanced medical practices.THIS KNOWLEDGE was spread to the rest of mali and some other areas in west africa. THE mosquito was isolated as the cause of malaria and doctors removed cataracts from the human eye. surgery and brain surgery was performed. Astronomy BECAME MORE ADVANCED here too and advancements in government. THE ARABIC script was used in africa and later africans in early modern times use the script for their own languages.The arabic is a more developed script than the one in china,of course it was not as advanced as meriotic. Morals were higher,and women were treated with greater respect.civilized life was more advanced. THE berber writer visited india and mali when he compared the two cultures he said the people of mali were more civilized. let's not forget that kush,medieval nubia was on the level of india but in some respects more advanced,and mali AND some other areas of west africa became more advanced than MEDIEVAL NUBIA in medieval times. edited- IT is safe too say that spain and africa were at least on par with asia,but if you consider the moral developements and the knowledge the africans built upon from the arabs,than i would say that civilizations in north africa,and certain civilizations in west africa,east africa and in few other areas in africa were a little bit more advanced than india or china. [/qb][/QUOTE][/qb][/QUOTE]I agree that many black Muslims were important in the development of learning and science, however, how do you determine whether a specific author is Black African amongst the scholars at Timbuktu? It is an important issue. [/qb][/QUOTE]YOU HAVE A POINT,i guess more research will have to be done.I think progess is happening in this area,one thing however there were africans that did not change thier names or their whole names to arabic names.This IS A good start AS well. Another point,ALOT OF written works HAVE BEEN FOUND RECENTLY in black private homes and private libraries,early UNIVERSITIES AND OTHER early PUBLIC PLACES in arabic and african languages AND in OTHER CITIES IN MALI,AND IN TOWNS AND VILLAGES,but most of this info is not deciphered yet. THE WORKS THAT HAVE BEEN deciphered were very few the last time i check. Scholars today have alot of work to do,BUT certain scholars today DO KNOW MORE ABOUT early west africa today and early africa as awhole than they did a few years ago,but this info is hard to get for some strange reason.IT seems when we want to know more details about early africa it is harder to find in the west,but the french,germans, some others and certain african scholars are doing a great job but alot more detailed and update knowledge about early africa is not written in english,put there is growing progress there but slowly.IF YOU COULD READ FRENCH OR GERMAN THAN YOU COULD READ MORE DETAILED and up to date INFO ON AVERAGE. Info about early africa has grown and kepts growing. I HAVE A TAPE about kush and in the city of meroe a university may have developed there first, more and more info is coming in about early africa,BUT I HAVE TO GET MORE INFO ON THIS ONE.We know OF COURSE THAT temples were used as colleges in africa in ancient times AND AS WELL AS places to worship. [/QB][/QUOTE]
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