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Ancient Egypt Africa Cultural Diffusion ?
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Doug M: [QB] [QUOTE]Originally posted by Big O: [qb] [i]"What do you mean where were those cultures?"[/i] Well where tf was that said in the quoted passage for one? [i]"or these were all home grown cultural traits tied to prehistoric traditions. It is a little of both."[/i] That is your inference, and I asked for specifics on these prehistoric traditions that explain why we see parallels in these various African peoples and ancient Kemet. [i]"What I am saying is for example many elements of the Nile Valley had an origin in cultures that were preliterate"[/i] I definitely agree with this, but the combination of these cultural elements in that place in time is what lead to the creation of dynastic Khamet. [i]"So if you are going to argue about diffusion you should first check to see if there are older archaeological evidences of some trait or tradition that predates the Nile before defending this concept."[/i] That has already been looked into. Unless there is an Atlantis in the ancient Alien Sahara like the one that Henry Lhote hypothesized that we generally don't know about then what else should we look for at this early period to explain these cultural overlappings. Better...Why is there a need to provide another explanation that has absolutely no basis in fact, but is meaningless conjecture? [i]"I never said West Africa was a people, as opposed to a region of Africa with a long history. To claim that all of that culture came from the Nile is disingenuous."[/i] That is something that again has been attributed to me that was never stated. The Mande and Nilo-Saharan speakers in the region did not come from Kemet from the evidence that I have seen. The Mande being NCish do have a Nile Valley-Nubian origin however. The Pygmies in the region have been indigenous there before the coming of the main NC branch that dominates the region today. [i]"What I am saying is that some of these traditions you claim originated from the Nile are part of an African cultural complex or pattern of complexes that has existed in some form for tens of thousands of years."[/i] What you are negating to acknowledge is that these traditions that are pointed out are often times linked to directly to the distinctly Khemetic religion centering around the honoring of Ausar. Why does it appear that you are trying to SO HARD to find ANYTHING to CREATE DOUBT on what is an apparent truth. You keep trying to negate this connection, when these groups (Akan, Yoruba, Bemleke, Igbo, Ewe, etc etc etc) literally have ORAL TRADITIONS of coming from Kemet with intricate details of historical events including NAMES. [i]"Dar Tichitt had mummification and that does not require Ausarian cosmology. If anything the Ausarian cosmology is tied to pre dynastic cultures from the Nile searching for water and oases as a part of survival in the once wet Sahara, which predates Dynastic culture. And many cultural elements are a result of those influences which also reached into other parts of Africa. Ancestor worship, the belief in some aspect of the soul surviving death and being able to communicate to dead ancestors is NOT unique to the Nile Valley."[/i] So... you keep trying to tear apart the culture unique to ancient Kemet, and shown in tact in the modern cultures of NC speakers, and then you turn around and acknowledge the undeniable parallel while claiming that they arose independently from unspecified but common African elements. That is YOU doing mental gymnastics to avoid acknowledging that NC speakers have a direct link to Kemet - Nile Valley civilization. [i]"Carving a bird on a stone did not come from Kemet. Now if there were heiroglyphs being drawn/carved that would be different, but come on carving a bird? Seriously?"[/i] The famous bird and serpent/Sekreh is evidence of this diffusion. [IMG]https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/u440/Treday90/uraeustut2.jpg?width=285&height=175&crop=fill[/IMG] [IMG]https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/u440/Treday90/tumblr_no9rktsMxl1qjh37to1_1280.jpg?width=285&height=175&crop=fill[/IMG] [/qb][/QUOTE]Meaningless conjecture? The oldest pastoral traditions arose in the Sahara before the Nile Valley during the wet phase. That isn't conjecture. [QUOTE] The division of the entire Saharan population into broad regional sets (Fig. 2b) allows a preliminary look at spatial variation in the timing of population change. The population curves for the Eastern Sahara, the Atlas & Hoggar and Central Sahara start broadly synchronous; showing a rapid population increase after the onset of humid conditions c. 10.5 ka and during the millennial-long population decline between 7.5 and 6.5 ka (Fig. 2b). At the end of the AHP, however, we observe divergence in the regional demographic response. The eastern Sahara, which is today extremely arid, appears to have undergone a rapid population decline, as occupation shifted towards the Nile Valley. It has even been suggested that this subsequently gave rise to the Pharanoic civilisation45. To the north and west, in the Atlas & Hoggar mountain region, population decline appears to have been equally rapid (c. 900 years, Fig. 2b). The central Sahara, on the other hand, saw a much more gradual decline in population levels that never reached the pre-Holocene population low (Fig. 2b). The fact that societies practicing pastoralism persisted in this region for so long, and invested both economically and ideologically in the local landscape, does not support a scenario of over-exploitation (see Methods). Additionally, the ethnographic record demonstrates how the flexibility inherent in traditional African pastoralist strategies enables them to make the most efficient use of patchy and fragile environments4,5,37. It is therefore likely that the origins of such strategies co-evolved with the drying environment in a way that enabled humans to live in an adaptive balance with available pasture.[/QUOTE] https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-018-06321-y And [QUOTE] By the 6th millennium BC, evidence of a prehistoric religion or cult appears. From 5500 BC the Late Neolithic period began, with "a new group that had a complex social system expressed in a degree of organisation and control not previously seen."[11] These new people were responsible for sacrificial cattle burials in clay-lined and roofed chambers covered by rough stone tumuli. It has been suggested that the associated cattle cult indicated in Nabta Playa marks an early evolution of Ancient Egypt's Hathor cult. For example, Hathor was worshipped as a nighttime protector in desert regions (see Serabit el-Khadim). To directly quote professors Wendorf and Schild: ... there are many aspects of political and ceremonial life in prehistoric Egypt and the Old Kingdom that reflects a strong impact from Saharan cattle pastoralists ... Rough megalithic stone structures buried underground are also found in Nabta Playa, one of which included evidence of what Wendorf described as perhaps "the oldest known sculpture in Egypt." [/QUOTE] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nabta_Playa [QUOTE] The discoveries at Ounjougou (Mali), an open-air site in the Dogon Country, shed new light on the “early Neolithic” in Africa. The stratigraphic sequence and a cluster of absolute dates established a terminus ante quem of 9400 cal bc for ceramic sherds associated with a small bifacial lithic industry. The emergence of this typo-technical complex corresponds to one of the wet phases of the Pleistocene–Holocene transition in West Africa, most probably that of the climatic upturn at the beginning of the Holocene, between 10,200 and 9,400 cal bc. Paleoenvironmental results, particularly archaeobotanical ones, indicate that the landscape was in a state of change and that, for several millennia, the surfaces covered by desert overlapped an open steppe with grasses, some of which were edible. This environmental situation allowed the dispersion of prehistoric groups over the continent and probably encouraged a new behavior: the practice of intensive selective gathering (i.e., the targeted and rational harvesting of wild grasses for their seeds). However, not only must seeds be kept dry and protected from rodents, they must also be processed through cooking or fermentation. This process helps the human body to assimilate the starch, as the digestive enzymes necessary for its digestion are not naturally present. Ceramics would have been particularly useful in this process. Ceramics emerged in sub-Saharan Africa and seem to have spread toward the central Sahara during the early Holocene at the end of the 10th and the beginning of the 9th millennium cal bc, while the desert zone became increasingly greener. It has yet to be understood whether the Nile Valley was an important corridor for the diffusion of this technology or if ceramics appeared as the result of a second independent process of innovation.[/QUOTE] https://oxfordre.com/view/10.1093/acrefore/9780190854584.001.0001/acrefore-9780190854584-e-66 Obviously if there was pottery in Mali at least going as far back as the 9th Millenium BCE, it couldn't simply be a diffusion from the Nile. [QUOTE] In the 10th millennium BCE, Niger-Congo speakers developed pyrotechnology and employed subsistence strategy at Ounjougou, Mali.[30] Prior to 9400 BCE, Niger-Congo speakers independently created and used matured ceramic technology[30][31] (e.g., pottery, pots) to contain and cook grains (e.g., Digitaria exilis, pearl millet);[30][32] ethnographically and historically, West African women have been the creators of pottery in most West African ceramic traditions[33][34] and their production of ceramics is closely associated with creativity and fertility.[34] Amid the tenth millennium BCE, microlith-using West Africans migrated into and dwelt in Ounjougou alongside earlier residing West Africans in Ounjougou.[35] Among two existing cultural areas, earlier residing West Africans in Ounjougou were of a cultural area encompassing the Sahara region (e.g., Tenere, Niger/Chad; Air, Niger; Acacus, Libya/Algeria;[35] Tagalagal, Niger; Temet, Niger)[36] of Africa and microlith-using West Africans were of a cultural area encompassing the forest region of West Africa.[35] Following the Ogolian period, between the late 10th millennium BCE and early 9th millennium BCE, the creators of the Ounjougou pottery – the earliest pottery in Africa – migrated, along with their pottery, from Ounjougou, Mali into the Central Sahara.[37] Whether or not Ounjougou ceramic culture spread as far as Bir Kiseiba, Egypt, which had pottery that resembled Ounjougou pottery, had implements used for grinding like at Ounjougou, and was followed by subsequent ceramic cultures (e.g., Wadi el Akhdar, Sarurab, Nabta Playa), remains to be determined.[37] The emergence and expansion of ceramics in the Sahara may be linked with the origin of both the Round Head and Kel Essuf rock art, which occupy rockshelters in the same regions (e.g., Djado, Acacus, Tadrart) as well as have a common resemblance (e.g., traits, shapes).[38] In the Central Sahara, the Kel Essuf Period and Round Head Period were followed by the Pastoral Period.[39] As a result of increasing aridification of the Green Sahara, Central Saharan hunter-gatherers and cattle herders may have used seasonal waterways as the migratory route taken to the Niger River and Chad Basin of West Africa.[40] [/QUOTE] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ounjougou [/QB][/QUOTE]
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