Most of the Tuaregs don't claim to come from Yemen. According to their own oral legends they come from a female named Tin Hanan from Southern Morocco. The problem with much of the oral legends of Africans that embrace Islam is that many try to connect themselves back to points in Islamic history--i.e. the Songhai claiming to desend from Yemanis and Hausa claming they come from Iraq. Islamicized Africans were known to have fabricated geneologies and legends.
The Sanhaja mentioned are not primarly comprised of Tuaregs but many different groups of Saharan Imazigh[berber] groups. Tuaregs were only one part of them.
Something about the Tuareg people have to keep in mind is that there are various different Kels. Kels are like clan divisions that Somalis have. Most claim desendant from Tin Hanan and some from Lemtuna. If you knew who Lemtuna was then you would know she was a legendary queen and matriarch.
The Tuareg[Kel Tamelsheq] unlike Arabs or Semitic speaking populations are matrilineal and even matriarchical. Most have no problem with having queens ruling over them and honor females through sucession.
Tuareg relate their origins as the following:
Tuareg origin myths relate the Tuareg to Lemtuna, the ancestress of the Berbers who lived around Ghadames in Tripolitania (Nicolaisen 1963: p. 405). Another myth relates the Tuareg to the legendary Queen Tin Hinan who came to Abalessa in the Ahaggar region from Tafilelt in Morocco (p. 69). According to Prasse, these legends suggest the Tuareg of southern Algeria came from Libya and Morocco, and the Kel Ayr and Kel Geres have Libyan origins. Tuareg from Mali claim to have come from Morocco or Mauritania (p. 71). Tuareg society has always been characterized by rivalry between groups, and in time different groups have enjoyed supremacy over others (p. 72). When the French arrived in the Hoggar they were met with great resistance and peace was reached in 1917. It lasted until independence in 1960. The French let the Tuareg continue their nomadic lifestyles; however, they saw to it that no concentration of power emerged (p. 80). Although the French did think of setting up an independent Tuareg state, the idea never materialized (p. 80)
Good topic on "indigenous" Africans called Tuaregs. I don't think it is mystery that those who make bizarre claims for their extra-African origin haven't risen to the occasion of presenting material to the contrary. It is the usual case of facts prevailing over wishful thinking.
Posted by KING (Member # 9422) on :
Anybody who thinks the Tuareg are not indigenous Africans don't know what they are talking about. All Tuareg lineages are African. The Tuareg are related to east Africans. The closest people they are related to are the Beja.
Genetic distance, from Sforza's study of autosomes:
West African Tuareg to East African Beja 135 Tuareg to other West Africans 472 East African Beja to other West Africans 500
So I am also not surprised that people who say Tuareg are not Indeginous to Africa have ignored Ausars thread. They have nothing to say because they cannot refute the truth. Tuareg are indeginous Africans.
Peace
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
quote:Originally posted by Supercar: ..I don't think it is mystery that those who make bizarre claims for their extra-African origin haven't risen to the occasion of presenting material to the contrary...
Of course. Folks like Mike-O'Canada just have NO ANSWERS.
quote:...It is the usual case of facts prevailing over wishful thinking.
Yes, they always do. Posted by Ceelgabo_11 (Member # 8942) on :
The Tuaregs are nomadic people and desert dwellers. The tuareg are either Messufa, Lamtuna, or Judaala, they traced their ancestry back to the Sanhaja. The Sanhaja trace their lineage back to the Himyar who are people of Southern Arabia. They, however, lived among the Berbers before crossing the Sahara and settling in West Africa. They are the founders of the city of Timbuktu. They contributed scholarly and commercially to the legacy of Timbuktu. Today, the tuareg live in Mali and Niger The Tuaregs are nomadic people and desert dwellers. The tuareg are either Messufa, Lamtuna, or Judaala, they traced their ancestry back to the Sanhaja. The Sanhaja trace their lineage back to the Himyar who are people of Southern Arabia. They, however, lived among the Berbers before crossing the Sahara and settling in West Africa. They are the founders of the city of Timbuktu. They contributed scholarly and commercially to the legacy of Timbuktu. Today, the tuareg live in Mali and Niger
Posted by Supercar (Member # 6477) on :
The Tuaregs are nomadic people and desert dwellers. The tuareg are either Messufa, Lamtuna, or Judaala, they traced their ancestry back to the Sanhaja. The Sanhaja trace their lineage back to the Himyar who are people of Southern Arabia. They, however, lived among the Berbers before crossing the Sahara and settling in West Africa. They are the founders of the city of Timbuktu. They contributed scholarly and commercially to the legacy of Timbuktu. Today, the tuareg live in Mali and Niger The Tuaregs are nomadic people and desert dwellers. The tuareg are either Messufa, Lamtuna, or Judaala, they traced their ancestry back to the Sanhaja. The Sanhaja trace their lineage back to the Himyar who are people of Southern Arabia. They, however, lived among the Berbers before crossing the Sahara and settling in West Africa. They are the founders of the city of Timbuktu. They contributed scholarly and commercially to the legacy of Timbuktu. Today, the tuareg live in Mali and Niger
What purpose does the reposting of an excerpt that was just discredited serve you?...unless of course, you can corroborate it with requested evidence elsewhere!
Posted by Ceelgabo_11 (Member # 8942) on :
The Tuaregs are nomadic people and desert dwellers. The tuareg are either Messufa, Lamtuna, or Judaala, they traced their ancestry back to the Sanhaja. The Sanhaja trace their lineage back to the Himyar who are people of Southern Arabia. They, however, lived among the Berbers before crossing the Sahara and settling in West Africa. They are the founders of the city of Timbuktu. They contributed scholarly and commercially to the legacy of Timbuktu. Today, the tuareg live in Mali and Niger The Tuaregs are nomadic people and desert dwellers. The tuareg are either Messufa, Lamtuna, or Judaala, they traced their ancestry back to the Sanhaja. The Sanhaja trace their lineage back to the Himyar who are people of Southern Arabia. They, however, lived among the Berbers before crossing the Sahara and settling in West Africa. They are the founders of the city of Timbuktu. They contributed scholarly and commercially to the legacy of Timbuktu. Today, the tuareg live in Mali and Niger
What purpose does the reposting of an excerpt that was just discredited serve you?...unless of course, you can corroborate it with requested evidence elsewhere!
This information is from historians who are more knowledgeable about the history of the people in the region than you or me or anybody in this forum...
If you think their information is fabricated please feel free to email them...
info@timbuktufoundation.com
Posted by Supercar (Member # 6477) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ceelgabo_11:
This information is from historians who are more knowledgeable about the history of the people in the region than you or me or anybody in this forum...
If you think their information is fabricated please feel free to email them...
info@timbuktufoundation.com [/QB]
Your information has been discredited by "experts" who have more knowledge on their disciplines than you, and also by the oral traditions of the groups themselves, as Ausar's opening notes show. If you can refute those "experts" conclusions, please produce it. Distractive antics won't do.
Posted by rasol (Member # 4592) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ceelgabo_11: If you think their information is fabricated please feel free to email them...
Why? We can just ask you to provide proof, and when you don't, we move on to more serious issues.
Posted by MichaelFromQuebec (Member # 10907) on :
quote:Anybody who thinks the Tuareg are not indigenous Africans don't know what they are talking about. All Tuareg lineages are African.
quote:Of course. Folks like Mike-O'Canada just have NO ANSWERS.
Anyone with a tan is black, how can I argue with that Posted by rasol (Member # 4592) on :
^ Dark skin in Taureg is natural and has little to do with tanning, so apparently you can't.
Posted by Ceelgabo_11 (Member # 8942) on :
quote:Originally posted by rasol:
quote:Originally posted by Ceelgabo_11: If you think their information is fabricated please feel free to email them...
Why? We can just ask you to provide proof, and when you don't, we move on to more serious issues.
I'm not schooler, so why is my jibberish any relevent to you...why not just ask people that know the history of the people.
Posted by Supercar (Member # 6477) on :
Rasol's point is well taken. We have facts from "experts" which have been posted here time and again, and the statement made about Tuareg origins in the excerpt you provided, goes against the conclusions of all the disciplines available, i.e. cultural anthropology, archeology, linguistics, and bio-anthropology, not to mention the oral traditions as posted in the opening notes. Thus the statement made in that excerpt is like an "outlier" within the available information on Tuaregs, and hence, the burden of proof is on either the author's or your end, for supporting it.
Posted by Ceelgabo_11 (Member # 8942) on :
quote:Originally posted by MichaelFromQuebec:
quote:Anybody who thinks the Tuareg are not indigenous Africans don't know what they are talking about. All Tuareg lineages are African.
quote:Of course. Folks like Mike-O'Canada just have NO ANSWERS.
Anyone with a tan is black, how can I argue with that
Touaregs diverse..from light skin to very dark skin. By just showing only light skin Touaregs you are ignoring majority of Touaregs who are either very dark or brown. Tan is something Europeans get when they stay in the sun too long...Touaregs are either brown or black.
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
quote:Originally posted by MichaelFromQuebec:
Again, you roll your eyes in frustration for lack of understanding.
The only reason why there exists Tuareg who are very fair-skinned is because of the Saharan trade in EUROPEAN SLAVES! Take a look here.
quote: Anyone with a tan is black, how can I argue with that
Nope. Those aren't "tans"! LOL Stop being dillusional and accept that those are people of color!!
Besides, unlike you, I have already provided an accurate ANSWER as to the definition of black right here.
*sigh* Not my problem if you continue to ignore all of the FACTS including the studies on Berber lineages.
Your selective spam of pictures won't save you from the FACTS including what most Tuareg look like:
The Tuaregs are nomadic people and desert dwellers. The tuareg are either Messufa, Lamtuna, or Judaala, they traced their ancestry back to the Sanhaja. The Sanhaja trace their lineage back to the Himyar who are people of Southern Arabia. They, however, lived among the Berbers before crossing the Sahara and settling in West Africa. They are the founders of the city of Timbuktu. They contributed scholarly and commercially to the legacy of Timbuktu. Today, the tuareg live in Mali and Niger. The Tuaregs are nomadic people and desert dwellers. The tuareg are either Messufa, Lamtuna, or Judaala, they traced their ancestry back to the Sanhaja. The Sanhaja trace their lineage back to the Himyar who are people of Southern Arabia. They, however, lived among the Berbers before crossing the Sahara and settling in West Africa. They are the founders of the city of Timbuktu. They contributed scholarly and commercially to the legacy of Timbuktu. Today, the tuareg live in Mali and Niger
You need to learn how to comprehend info you read more properly. Besides, this information is innaccurate in that the Tuareg don't descend from the Sanhaja but the other way around-- some of the Sanhaja descended from Tuareg!! Also, the Himyar are and have always been a small minority in North Africa. Again, there are those North Africans who want to associate themselves with the Prophet by claiming Himyarite ancestry, but as we can see by the anthropological and genetic data, such claims are void. What's funny is that the elite families of the Tuareg clans are matrilineal which means they reckon descesnt from the mother's side! This is contradictoray with Arab strict patrilineal descent!
We have been over this many times in other threads such as this. Unless you can prove the existance of Berber genetic lineages or languages in Yemen, you have no proof. There are non. So give it up!
Every Muslim does not need to have Arab ancestry! Posted by rasol (Member # 4592) on :
quote:I'm not schooler, so why is my jibberish any relevent to you
Good point.
Posted by MichaelFromQuebec (Member # 10907) on :
quote: Your selective spam of pictures won't save you from you from the FACTS including what most Tuareg look like:
They're a beautiful mixed raced people.
Posted by kenndo (Member # 4846) on :
quote:Originally posted by ausar: Most of the Tuaregs don't claim to come from Yemen. According to their own oral legends they come from a female named Tin Hanan from Southern Morocco. The problem with much of the oral legends of Africans that embrace Islam is that many try to connect themselves back to points in Islamic history--i.e. the Songhai claiming to desend from Yemanis and Hausa claming they come from Iraq. Islamicized Africans were known to have fabricated geneologies and legends.
The Sanhaja mentioned are not primarly comprised of Tuaregs but many different groups of Saharan Imazigh[berber] groups. Tuaregs were only one part of them.
Something about the Tuareg people have to keep in mind is that there are various different Kels. Kels are like clan divisions that Somalis have. Most claim desendant from Tin Hanan and some from Lemtuna. If you knew who Lemtuna was then you would know she was a legendary queen and matriarch.
The Tuareg[Kel Tamelsheq] unlike Arabs or Semitic speaking populations are matrilineal and even matriarchical. Most have no problem with having queens ruling over them and honor females through sucession.
Tuareg relate their origins as the following:
Tuareg origin myths relate the Tuareg to Lemtuna, the ancestress of the Berbers who lived around Ghadames in Tripolitania (Nicolaisen 1963: p. 405). Another myth relates the Tuareg to the legendary Queen Tin Hinan who came to Abalessa in the Ahaggar region from Tafilelt in Morocco (p. 69). According to Prasse, these legends suggest the Tuareg of southern Algeria came from Libya and Morocco, and the Kel Ayr and Kel Geres have Libyan origins. Tuareg from Mali claim to have come from Morocco or Mauritania (p. 71). Tuareg society has always been characterized by rivalry between groups, and in time different groups have enjoyed supremacy over others (p. 72). When the French arrived in the Hoggar they were met with great resistance and peace was reached in 1917. It lasted until independence in 1960. The French let the Tuareg continue their nomadic lifestyles; however, they saw to it that no concentration of power emerged (p. 80). Although the French did think of setting up an independent Tuareg state, the idea never materialized (p. 80)
The Tuaregs are nomadic people and desert dwellers. The tuareg are either Messufa, Lamtuna, or Judaala, they traced their ancestry back to the Sanhaja. The Sanhaja trace their lineage back to the Himyar who are people of Southern Arabia. They, however, lived among the Berbers before crossing the Sahara and settling in West Africa. They are the founders of the city of Timbuktu. They contributed scholarly and commercially to the legacy of Timbuktu. Today, the tuareg live in Mali and Niger. The Tuaregs are nomadic people and desert dwellers. The tuareg are either Messufa, Lamtuna, or Judaala, they traced their ancestry back to the Sanhaja. The Sanhaja trace their lineage back to the Himyar who are people of Southern Arabia. They, however, lived among the Berbers before crossing the Sahara and settling in West Africa. They are the founders of the city of Timbuktu. They contributed scholarly and commercially to the legacy of Timbuktu. Today, the tuareg live in Mali and Niger
You need to learn how to comprehend info you read more properly. Besides, this information is innaccurate in that the Tuareg don't descend from the Sanhaja but the other way around-- some of the Sanhaja descended from Tuareg!! Also, the Himyar are and have always been a small minority in North Africa. Again, there are those North Africans who want to associate themselves with the Prophet by claiming Himyarite ancestry, but as we can see by the anthropological and genetic data, such claims are void. What's funny is that the elite families of the Tuareg clans are matrilineal which means they reckon descesnt from the mother's side! This is contradictoray with Arab strict patrilineal descent!
We have been over this many times in other threads such as this. Unless you can prove the existance of Berber genetic lineages or languages in Yemen, you have no proof. There are non. So give it up!
Every Muslim does not need to have Arab ancestry!
Look the people who wrote this know more about the Touregs and their lineage than you and I.
I have question
How could North Africans associate themself with the prophet by claiming to be descended of Himyarites? When Himyarites Arabs are not even related to prophet Mohammed(pbuh)...Prophet Mohammed(pbuh) descended from Adnani Arabs, while Himyarites descended from Qahtani Arabs from Yemen.
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
quote:Originally posted by MichaelFromQuebec: They're a beautiful mixed raced people.
Nope.
Not as mixed race as Europeans. Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ceelgabo_11: Look the people who wrote this know more about the Touregs and their lineage than you and I.
Judging by certain inconsistancies, I'd say that the people who wrote this article are not a primary source but got their info from other sources. We have evidence BOTH from anthropologists and geneticists as well as from TUAREG ORAL TRADITIONS. The former supports the latter.
quote:I have question
How could North Africans associate themself with the prophet by claiming to be descended of Himyarites? When Himyarites Arabs are not even related to prophet Mohammed(pbuh)...Prophet Mohammed(pbuh) descended from Adnani Arabs, while Himyarites descended from Qahtani Arabs from Yemen.
You are correct about this! But try to understand that some Muslim folks want to associate themselves with the Prophet so bad they will try to claim relation to whatever Arabian group that historically entered their area regardless of actual relation to Muhammad!!
Posted by Supercar (Member # 6477) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ceelgabo_11:
How could North Africans associate themself with the prophet by claiming to be descended of Himyarites? When Himyarites Arabs are not even related to prophet Mohammed(pbuh)...Prophet Mohammed(pbuh) descended from Adnani Arabs, while Himyarites descended from Qahtani Arabs from Yemen.
They, i.e. Sahelian Tuaregs, don't! Ausar's point has demonstrated this, which you have yet to address.
Posted by yazid904 (Member # 7708) on :
Some Tauregs (a small minority) display a European phenotype denoting a recent admixture (with whom is a different matter) based on location and isolation. The more Northern and Eastern the latitude this can be seen. Again I state, these are a small minority. All Tauregs are African! punto e aparte!
Wesley Snipes, Vin Diesel, Beyonce, Jennifer Beals, Maria Carey as examples of the same family! No one the better or worse?
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
quote:Originally posted by yazid904: Some Tauregs (a small minority) display a European phenotype denoting a recent admixture (with whom is a different matter) based on location and isolation. The more Northern and Eastern the latitude this can be seen. Again I state, these are a small minority. All Tauregs are African! punto e aparte!
^^Yes and this is because of the Trans-Saharan trade which included slaves from Europe! Such a topic was discussed on this board several times including this thread.
quote:Wesley Snipes, Vin Diesel, Beyonce, Jennifer Beals, Maria Carey as examples of the same family! No one the better or worse?
Irrelevant. The one-drop rule of African Americans has no bearing on the predominant indigenous ancestry of the Tuareg.
Posted by Supercar (Member # 6477) on :
quote:Originally posted by yazid904:
Some Tauregs (a small minority) display a European phenotype denoting a recent admixture (with whom is a different matter) based on...
which study?
Posted by alTakruri (Member # 10195) on :
Is there any documentation for any Kel buying European females or males from the markets of the coastal Arabized Imazighen and Arabs?
I think those of the lightest skin are descendents of the whites (Pliny's Leucęthiopians and Procopius' fair-haired leucoderms of the deserts south of the Mauretanii) that the first ancestral Imaheren found already in the Sahara upon their arrival.
The Kel had/have a tri-tiered traditional society of
* amahar ("noble") -- descent from Tin Hinan, a Moroccan, by legend * amrid ("vassal") -- descent from Takama servant of Tin Hinan, by legend * akl ("servant") -- kin of the above plus outsider captives [non-chattels] attached to the family
A person's assignment to either generally follows the birth mother.
There're also "outlier" social groupings * inislimen (Islamic "clerics") * haratin (oasis sharecropping farmers) * enaden (smiths, craftsmen)
Posted by Supercar (Member # 6477) on :
quote:Originally posted by alTakruri:
I think those of the lightest skin are descendents of the whites (Pliny's Leucęthiopians and Procopius' fair-haired leucoderms of the deserts south of the Mauretanii) that the first ancestral Imaheren found already in the Sahara upon their arrival.
Wait a minute: the so-called "leucoderms" arrived in the Sahara before Tuaregs?
Posted by alTakruri (Member # 10195) on :
Before Procopius (c. 550 CE; Book 4.13.29) and Pliny (c. 50 CE; Book 5.8) we have the record of the artists of the Tassili N' Ajjer frescoes (after 1000 BCE).
Posted by Supercar (Member # 6477) on :
quote:Originally posted by alTakruri:
Before Procopius (c. 550 CE; Book 4.13.29) and Pliny (c. 50 CE; Book 5.8) we have the record of the artists of the Tassili N' Ajjer frescoes (> 1000 BCE).
What evidence is there of "leucoderms" in the Sahara, before the pre-historic arrival of "Berber" speaking groups?
Posted by alTakruri (Member # 10195) on :
I don't know of any.
Posted by Supercar (Member # 6477) on :
quote:Originally posted by alTakruri: I don't know of any.
Neither do I, and that is why the idea of "leucoderms" having lived in the Sahara before "Tuaregs", who are descendants of "Berber speaking" migrants to the region, is news to me. Even the so-called "Mechta-Afalou" are far from being proven to have been "leucoderms". I've talked about this earlier in another topic.
Posted by alTakruri (Member # 10195) on :
It's always good to learn something new.
Posted by Supercar (Member # 6477) on :
quote:Originally posted by alTakruri: It's always good to learn something new.
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
quote:Originally posted by alTakruri: Before Procopius (c. 550 CE; Book 4.13.29) and Pliny (c. 50 CE; Book 5.8) we have the record of the artists of the Tassili N' Ajjer frescoes (after 1000 BCE).
I have seen the Tassili frescoes, and non depict any leucoderms--at least not in any of the frescoes I've seen... Unless you count those abstract human figures painted in chalk white that a Berber poster here once paraded around his proof of white Saharans. LOL Posted by alTakruri (Member # 10195) on :
You mean you've seen some Tassili frescoes and I suspect you don't want to see any leucoderms and hence will rationalize away any you do come across.
Keep looking there's hundreds of frescoes, doubt you've seen the majority fraction of them. Concentrate on the post Bovidian ones.
Posted by Ceelgabo_11 (Member # 8942) on :
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti:
quote:Originally posted by Ceelgabo_11: Look the people who wrote this know more about the Touregs and their lineage than you and I.
Judging by certain inconsistancies, I'd say that the people who wrote this article are not a primary source but got their info from other sources. We have evidence BOTH from anthropologists and geneticists as well as from TUAREG ORAL TRADITIONS. The former supports the latter.
quote:I have question
How could North Africans associate themself with the prophet by claiming to be descended of Himyarites? When Himyarites Arabs are not even related to prophet Mohammed(pbuh)...Prophet Mohammed(pbuh) descended from Adnani Arabs, while Himyarites descended from Qahtani Arabs from Yemen.
You are correct about this! But try to understand that some Muslim folks want to associate themselves with the Prophet so bad they will try to claim relation to whatever Arabian group that historically entered their area regardless of actual relation to Muhammad!!
[QOUTE]You are correct about this! But try to understand that some Muslim folks want to associate themselves with the Prophet so bad they will try to claim relation to whatever Arabian group that historically entered their area regardless of actual relation to Muhammad !![/QOUTE]
If muslim tribe in Africa or Asia say that they are descended of Arab merchent or missionary and could name the person and could trace their lineage back to that person...than who are you to say they are lying about their lineage. Do you know their family tree better than them, I assume you don't.
Posted by Supercar (Member # 6477) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ceelgabo_11:
If muslim tribe in Africa or Asia say that they are descended of Arab merchent or missionary and could name the person and could trace their lineage back to that person...than who are you to say they are lying about their lineage. Do you know their family tree better than them, I assume you don't.
...not that such a scenario would apply to Tuaregs, since they haven't said so - nor culturally, historically or biologically proven so.
Posted by rasol (Member # 4592) on :
quote:To Rasol:
People of color do not mean BLACK
Ok?
Posted by Ceelgabo_11 (Member # 8942) on :
quote:Originally posted by Supercar:
quote:Originally posted by Ceelgabo_11:
If muslim tribe in Africa or Asia say that they are descended of Arab merchent or missionary and could name the person and could trace their lineage back to that person...than who are you to say they are lying about their lineage. Do you know their family tree better than them, I assume you don't.
...not that such a scenario would apply to Tuaregs, since they haven't said so - nor culturally, historically or biologically proven so.
Have you spoken to Toureg elders to know this...or are you just making it up.
Posted by Ceelgabo_11 (Member # 8942) on :
quote:Originally posted by Africanbible_Expert:
quote:
If muslim tribe in Africa or Asia say that they are descended of Arab merchent or missionary and could name the person and could trace their lineage back to that person...than who are you to say they are lying about their lineage. Do you know their family tree better than them, I assume you don't.
quote:
As much as I like to iterate that African Americans are dipshits so are tons of Africans..especially Christians/Jews/Muslims and many Africans are arabized/muslimized which is sad. So if people have bible or quranic fever they will agree with anything arabs or whites will tell them to tie them in the bible and quran. I mean the arabs tell my people that their ancestors were freakin arabs!! The arabs told the Hausa that the arabs built the freekin Yoruba temples and religion and they freakin believe what they tell them so maybe that will help...btw ITS ALL LIES!!!!!
To Rasol:
People of color do not mean BLACK
I don't think our problems concern you or anybody..if we are arabized/Islamized as you say, than we chose to except that.. We are muslims, our culture is Islam, our way of life is Islam...and we like it and we proud of it.
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
No you don't have a life outside cyberspace. If I hadn't called you out, you'd still be claiming you were a college freshman. LOL!
Since at least 2005 you've been claiming you were in college and then when it was pointed out you made up this "I'm graduating lie".
You don't have a degree or a job.
It would make it more respectable if you had a financial stake on this forum but you don't. Therefore it makes your unlimited participation that much worse.
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
^ LMAO
You are sadly mistaken. For starters, I try not to inject my personal life in this public online forum of strangers. I may answer questions here and there concerning myself but that's all. YOU on the other hand seem to have some obsession with me. I merely shot down your ridiculous assertions/fantasies about me. Yes I graduated from college with degrees and yes I work and maintain a social life which is why I'm not able to post in this forum as frequently as I'd like to. Yet despite all this, I'm still able to contribute here and there, while you contribute nothing and linger in this board like a bad odor. Also, by how silly and stupid you sound as well as your dumb comments and critiques of veteran posters especially myself, I couldn't help but think your notions of me are actually a projection of yourself-- that is an uneducated, unemployed, loser.
Now do you have something to add on this topic or not? I don't think you do.
Posted by Firewall (Member # 20331) on :
Tin Hinan
Tin Hinan is the name given by the Tuareg to a 4th-century woman of prestige whose monumental tomb is located in the Sahara at Abalessa in the Ahaggar or Hoggar region of Algeria. The name means literally "she of the tents", but may be metaphorically translated as "mother of the tribe" (or "of us all") or even "queen of the camp" (the "camp" maybe referring to the group of tombs which surround hers). She is sometimes referred to as "Queen of the Hoggar", and by the Tuareg as tamenukalt which also means "leader" or "queen".
An anthropological study of the remains published in 1968 concluded the skeleton was that of a woman 1.72 to 1.76 metres tall, belonging to a Mediterranean race, who had probably never had children and who was probably lame because of deformation of the lumbar and sacral areas. The body is now in the Bardo Museum in Algiers.
______________ Is there any updated studies about this queen?dna etc.. to tell us if she was black or white?
Somebody already posted genetic info on the Tuareg, right? How about the Hausa?
Posted by HidayaAkade (Member # 20642) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ceelgabo_11:
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti:
quote:Originally posted by Ceelgabo_11: Look the people who wrote this know more about the Touregs and their lineage than you and I.
Judging by certain inconsistancies, I'd say that the people who wrote this article are not a primary source but got their info from other sources. We have evidence BOTH from anthropologists and geneticists as well as from TUAREG ORAL TRADITIONS. The former supports the latter.
quote:I have question
How could North Africans associate themself with the prophet by claiming to be descended of Himyarites? When Himyarites Arabs are not even related to prophet Mohammed(pbuh)...Prophet Mohammed(pbuh) descended from Adnani Arabs, while Himyarites descended from Qahtani Arabs from Yemen.
You are correct about this! But try to understand that some Muslim folks want to associate themselves with the Prophet so bad they will try to claim relation to whatever Arabian group that historically entered their area regardless of actual relation to Muhammad!!
[QOUTE]You are correct about this! But try to understand that some Muslim folks want to associate themselves with the Prophet so bad they will try to claim relation to whatever Arabian group that historically entered their area regardless of actual relation to Muhammad !![/QOUTE]
If muslim tribe in Africa or Asia say that they are descended of Arab merchent or missionary and could name the person and could trace their lineage back to that person...than who are you to say they are lying about their lineage. Do you know their family tree better than them, I assume you don't.
Can't genetics tell? If the Hausa claim to be descended from someone in Iraq as OP stated, and if genetics and other methods debunk their claim, then what? Same applies to other groups.
People of African descent all over have issues with our identity due to the negativity surrounding Africa. So, the idea of people African descent attaching themselves to other groups while devaluing their heritage is not uncommon.
Posted by HidayaAkade (Member # 20642) on :
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Anyone with a tan is black, how can I argue with that ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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