quote:In Senegambia, between 1300 and 1900, close to one-third of the population was enslaved. In early Islamic states of the western Sudan, including Ghana (750-1076), Mali (1235–1645), Segou (1712–1861), and Songhai (1275-1591), about a third of the population were slaves. In Sierra Leone in the 19th century about half of the population consisted of slaves. In the 19th century at least half the population was enslaved among the Duala of the Cameroon, the Igbo and other peoples of the lower Niger, the Kongo, and the Kasanje kingdom and Chokwe of Angola. Among the Ashanti and Yoruba a third of the population consisted of slaves. The population of the Kanem (1600–1800) was about a third-slave. It was perhaps 40% in Bornu (1580–1890). Between 1750 and 1900 from one- to two-thirds of the entire population of the Fulani jihad states consisted of slaves. The population of the Sokoto caliphate formed by Hausas in the northern Nigeria and Cameroon was half-slave in the 19th century. It is estimated that up to 90% of the population of Arab-Swahili Zanzibar was enslaved. Roughly half the population of Madagascar was enslaved.[4][5][6][7][8][9]
posted
if aa's are mostly descendants of the this type of civilizations then could it be factored in that their ancestors were never considered part of the famed civilizations. This would be particular seen in all other societies as well in which slaves are not considered even part of the entity in which they may belong to, so how then would they fit into the grand scheme of these major civilizations. i once saw a norweigian arguing with an american who claimed norweigian descent and he was stern in his position of the american not being norweigian at all regardless of the person's descent. I heared horror stories of aa's encounters with africans back in the days when the african medallion was fadish and having it stripped off of their person because an African vehemently pronounced his opinion of aa's not being African. I myself recall attending a All black private college in which the soccer team(consisting of a somali,carribeans, and sudanese) in which i was a member, told me that they would recieve a job by a white employer more than aa's and how they are trusted more than aa's. I remember a trinidadian( and he's only mentioned because their culture are more closer to african culture than aa's) telling me how he hated aa's and that he thought they were ignorant. These statements that i recieved from my colleagues reminded me of the many dialouges i have had with europeans concerning their relations with white americans. It is no doubt that the original racial demographic of the state which is called americas (euro-afro-indian) were from societies who were outcasted from other societies or basically slaves. It seems the more one group was outcasted the faster the cultural amalgamation.
-------------------- لا اله الا الله و محمد الرسول الله Posts: 495 | From: anchorage, alaska | Registered: Feb 2007
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The African-American community is so miscegenated that I honestly don't see how this logic would apply. Obviously at one point in time their/our ancestors must have been enslaved, but a great many were unsuspectedly captured and immediately shipped off while initially minding their own business as free men/women. This is evidenced by the story of Kunta Kinte and the writings of King Afonso of Kongo, among other accounts. Seeing as how virtually no one was directly shipped from either Mali or Songhay (for example), obviously the said Mande and Fula people who comprised the empires must have migrated towards the Atlantic coast. As a matter of fact, it is chronicled by various European writers:
quote: The Manneh were in origin Mandé [nyancho jong kende falla] soldiers who invaded the western coast of Africa from the east during the first half of the sixteenth century. There is really no room for doubt as to their origin, from the evidence of their dress and weapons (which were observed at the time by Europeans), their language, as well as from the evidence of Mane tradition, recorded in writing about 1625.
^African Americans may indeed be descendants of even some Songhai soldiers who were enslaved and scattered around by Moroccan troops, or they may be descendants of farmers/workers who were going out on a stroll minding their own business, before being netted and captured by fellow Africans and sold to Europeans. It is particularly hard to imagine though, that African-Americans are somehow descendant from slaves who were descendant from slaves who were descendant from slaves as part of an unbroken slave lineage that stretches back to the empire of Mali and so on.. Maybe a great grandmother (to the 15th power) was a slave, while a great grandfather (to the 14th power) on the other side of the family was a soldier or worker. There is no way to know given those statistics and the "mixed" (with various African ethnicities) nature of African Americans..
Posts: 4021 | From: Bay Area, CA | Registered: Mar 2007
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posted
You should brush up on the occupations slaves held in these civilizations before concluding what you have.
quote:Originally posted by abdulkarem3: if aa's are mostly descendants of the this type of civilizations then could it be factored in that their ancestors were never considered part of the famed civilizations.
Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006
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quote:Originally posted by alTakruri: You should brush up on the occupations slaves held in these civilizations before concluding what you have.
quote:Originally posted by abdulkarem3: if aa's are mostly descendants of the this type of civilizations then could it be factored in that their ancestors were never considered part of the famed civilizations.
quote:Originally posted by Sundiatta:
^^Excellent point!
Indeed.
...whether they were or not, as the saying goes: the glory goes to no one but the actual achievers themselves. Posts: 5555 | From: Tha 5th Dimension. | Registered: Apr 2006
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quote:You should brush up on the occupations slaves held in these civilizations before concluding what you have.
so would this imply that one would enjoy being a domestic or sharecropper or vassal or just simply not free. I think not. You would do as kunta kinte or cinque and grasp what freedom you can. debt bondage or sharcopping is not a piece of pie for free persons and especially in an african society it is a stigma. Who likes to be on the low end of the stick?
quote:but a great many were unsuspectedly captured and immediately shipped off while initially minding their own business as free men/women
true but slaves came from many different sources. About half came from the societies that sold them. These might be criminals, heretics, the mentally ill, the indebted and any others that had fallen out of favour with the rulers. hence the success of the african societies who became trading giants like that of rome who it self was based off a huge enslaved society.
Posts: 495 | From: anchorage, alaska | Registered: Feb 2007
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quote:Originally posted by abdulkarem3: true but slaves came from many different sources. About half came from the societies that sold them. These might be criminals, heretics, the mentally ill, the indebted and any others that had fallen out of favour with the rulers. hence the success of the african societies who became trading giants like that of rome who it self was based off a huge enslaved society.
At the end of the day though, this is all blind speculation for the reasons you even point out. It goes with out saying that slaves were eventually sold to Europeans, but there were just too many ethnic groups, too many different circumstances, problems with geography and cultural practices, problems with absolutes, problems with chronology and even lineage. Coming up with various different scenarios out of thin air about mentally ill and ostracized ancestors of African-Americans does little to answer your inquiry. I even gave a few examples from these said societies like Kongo and Mali where your scenario would not apply. The vast majority of slaves come from the ivory coast and Senegambia region which straddles the west coast. Malians and Songhai for instance would have had to migrate there after the collapse of the empires while Afonso attests to an abuse of trading, noting many instances of people who were literally kidnapped. As far as those sold into slavery from say, Ife or Benin, etc., again, who can say when exactly they were enslaved or if they were first or second generation slaves? Their parents could have been nobles while the offspring of the offspring, or distant relative (or a non-immediate family member, descendant from your immediate siblings) somehow fell out of favor. It is too complicated to think of in those terms, of African Americans being descendants of slaves who were slaves, leading back to a supreme ancestor who him/herself was a slave. Just doesn't jive with me..
Posts: 4021 | From: Bay Area, CA | Registered: Mar 2007
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The **Benin haplotype** accounts for HbS associated chromosomes in Sicily,4 Northern Greece,10 Southern Turkey,11 and South West Saudi Arabia,6,7 suggesting that these genes had their origin in West Africa. The Asian haplotype is rarely encountered outside its geographic origin because there have been few large population movements and Indian emigrants have been predominantly from non HbS containing populations. However, it is of interest that the Asian haplotype was first described among descendants of Indian indentured laborers in Jamaica.12 - Graham R. Serjeant, MD, FRCP, MRC Laboratories (Jamaica), University of the West Indies, Kingston.
...in contrast to...
From these original foci of the HbS mutation, the gene spread along trading routes to North Africa and the Mediterranean, was transported in large populations to North and South America and the Caribbean during the slave trade, and latterly has spread to Northern Europe by immigration from the Caribbean, directly from Africa to the United Kingdom, France, Belgium, and Holland, and from Turkey to Germany. The relative prevalence of these haplotypes in the Americas reflects the different origins of their African peoples, approximately 70% of HbS associated chromosomes having the **Benin haplotype**, 10% **Senegal** and 10% **Bantu**. Haplotype frequencies in Jamaica are **similar** to the USA but the **Bantu haplotype** accounts for the majority of HbS associated chromosomes in Brazil.9 - Graham R. Serjeant, MD, FRCP, MRC Laboratories (Jamaica), University of the West Indies, Kingston.
^Note the prevalence of the distinct HbS haplotypes [in percentages].
Posts: 1947 | Registered: Sep 2005
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What is the source of your intro note, and according to whose documents; Africans or foreigners. Who were enslaving these folks, the former or the latter? Were the majority of these considered what you refer to as:
These might be criminals, heretics, the mentally ill, the indebted and any others that had fallen out of favour with the rulers. hence the success of the african societies who became trading giants like that of rome who it self was based off a huge enslaved society. - by Abdulkarem3
Posts: 1947 | Registered: Sep 2005
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posted
This site is a prime exhibit of sick race freaks trying to live out their race hierarchy fantasies.
Tell me what African has walked up to an African American and jerked a jewelry off of his neck. Tell me who or even what nationality this was.
Posts: 35 | Registered: Sep 2007
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quote: I myself recall attending a All black private college in which the soccer team(consisting of a somali,carribeans, and sudanese) in which i was a member, told me that they would recieve a job by a white employer more than aa's and how they are trusted more than aa's.
You actually think that whites are actually distinguishing AAs from somalis, carribeans, and sudanese. And giving all of the jobs to these people.
I guess that's why African Americans have a collected buying power between 400 to 600 billion dollars.
To the deranged race loon this can't possibly be. Because somalis, carribeans, and sudanese are getting all of the jobs.
Well its true. African Americans have one of the largest income pools in the world. Now you can get mad and throw a hissy all you want. If it f---s with you, then let it. I'll ship you some vaseline to ease the discomfort.
You have quite a sorry fantasy life.
I can post links of sudanese both Northern and Southern who have college degrees and can't get jobs that they trained for and are relegated to retail and grocery clerk jobs.
You have to be absolutely crazy to believe that carribeans are some kind of economic powerhouse and have not encountered any kind of racial crazyness. I'm not even going to bother with this insane blabbering.
As for the somalis. I guess when stormfronters refer to somalis as the worse group of people on earth, as well as "scumalians" leeching of the government and having accomplished nothing they are just using that as a term of endearment.
The same thing with Lewiston, Maine and their Somaliphobia. Or England where the Somalis are afraid to come out of their house for fear of violence and having urine thrown on them.
Or the arabs beating up somalis in Saudi Arabia and Yemen and getting away with it scott free because the police refuse to investigate.
Its funny because this is like the third time that some idiot has tried to float this out here. The moron who used to moderate this forum pulled the same thing as well as the link that the philipeeeno posted to one of the race loon sites he visits. And now you. And the more its proven wrong the more imbecilles continue to try to propagate it as truth.
You really need to lose the psychotic race hierarchy fetish you wake up with.
Posts: 35 | Registered: Sep 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Mystery Solver: Abdulkarem,
What is the source of your intro note
He seems to have quoted the Wikipedia artical on the African slave trade. Many of the article's figures on African slavery, in turn, seem to have come from here. Unfortunately the Encyclopedia Britannica does not seem to provide footnotes for this particular article, making it difficult to verify.
Posts: 7069 | From: Fallbrook, CA | Registered: Mar 2004
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Its kind of funny how this keeps reverting back to the same sickness.
How do you know that some of these slaves weren't Turkish or white? Or is that you believe that slaves were only one ethnicity.
There is even a documentary about white slaves being sold in Africa called "Skeletons of the Sahara". Which no one talks about. I'll bet if this was about Africans being sold and enslaved there would be links and discussions about it everywhere.
Fulanis, Tuaregs, Arabs raiding helpless Ghanians, Nigerians, and Senegalese. This is a joke that even simple minded neanderthals would be ashamed to admit they believed. Ghanians, Nigerians, Senegalese and the others would be the last group of Africans that anybody in this forum would want to go head up against (That doesn't mean that they could take on AAs). I know I shouldn't have said it but I did. And I'm saying it even though I don't look like how "other people fantasize that West Africans look like".
Posts: 35 | Registered: Sep 2007
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You supplied us with a snippet from who knows where on WA civ's slave population percentages. Let's stick to your original statement posted after that
quote:if aa's are mostly descendants of the this type of civilizations then could it be factored in that their ancestors were never considered part of the famed civilizations. This would be particular seen in all other societies as well in which slaves are not considered even part of the entity in which they may belong to, so how then would they fit into the grand scheme of these major civilizations.
and leave this stuff about "enjoyment" where it belongs, outside the equation in the rubbish bin.
This sociological take on slavery (based on non- West African varieties of slavery) is no excuse for examining the roles of slaves in West African civilizations re their inclusion as members of those civilizations by those whom you leave unnamed but presume these unnamed ones excluded their slaves from citizenship or parternership in said civilizations.
Number one, you need to know that some slaves had the societal position of commanding free men who were under their power (per the title and position the royal slave was endowed by the rulership).
Number two, go do the research now and learn the facts before dissembling more personal suppositions.
Sundiata tried educating you on slaves as soldiery, for instance, but you missed the lesson and how to apply it to other circumstances of slave roles in West African civilizations.
quote:Originally posted by abdulkarem3:
quote:You should brush up on the occupations slaves held in these civilizations before concluding what you have.
posted
For future reference just know that Fulani have been in what's today known as Senegal for at least 1100 years and fanned out from there to establish themselves in the east, southeast and south.
quote:Originally posted by Still_Not_Done: Fulanis, Tuaregs, Arabs raiding helpless Ghanians, Nigerians, and Senegalese.
Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006
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So what about simple cultural facts like unlike ancient Europeans, particular Rome and Greece, African cultures were not slave based socities.
Yes there were slaves, but they were in the minority. Slaves were for the most part no different from indentured servants and had the same rights as free citizens. Slaves could also work their way to freedom and beyond attaining high postions in society.
This same practice of slavery was (not surprisingly) also seen in ancient Egypt!
Other than that, what exactly is the purpose of this thread, other than to stir something?
Posts: 26239 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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The best way to determine the sociological source of the captives transported to the Amercians should first read the logs and reports of the captive--such persons became slaves only when they became the final purchase of some plantation--merchants.
I have read "A Slaver's Log" by Theo Conaut and he writes that the vast majority of his captives were war prisoners. Conaut was a slaver on the West African coast for about 20 years, so he was qualifies to make general statements about the source of the captives.
Note too that there were also young children who were kidnapped--the case of Ajai Crowther, Oludah Equiano, Phyllis Wheatley(kidnapped as a child from the Senegambia). This is confirmed by the fact that Goree in Senegal had holding dungeones specifically for children.
Posts: 5492 | Registered: Nov 2004
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The best way to determine the sociological source of the captives transported to the Amercians should first read the logs and reports of the captive--such persons became slaves only when they became the final purchase of some plantation--merchants.
I have read "A Slaver's Log" by Theo Conaut and he writes that the vast majority of his captives were war prisoners. Conaut was a slaver on the West African coast for about 20 years, so he was qualifies to make general statements about the source of the captives.
Note too that there were also young children who were kidnapped--the case of Ajai Crowther, Oludah Equiano, Phyllis Wheatley(kidnapped as a child from the Senegambia). This is confirmed by the fact that Goree in Senegal had holding dungeones specifically for children.
What about pirates and small ship owners and private contractors who kept no logs at all. Most people back then and even now are not literate.
So basically Africans waged never ending wars for 400 years? Okay I'll buy that for a rupee.
Here's a newsflash, someone taken as a slave was basically like a death. So not only do you have West Africans dying natural deaths (both sides), you have them dying in wars (both sides), and also being taken as slaves. What population or region can sustain that kind of human loss for 1 year yet alone for 400+ years?
You can tell that alot of people have never ever ever run a business in their entire lives. The lack of common and business sense is just too obvious. Some people need to desperately get out into the real world.
Posts: 35 | Registered: Sep 2007
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posted
The way the captives were taken is fairly well documented. The main point is the slave merchants on the coast had to keep records not only of the numbers they put on board their ships but also the numbers they kept in their baracoons(holding prisons).
Again: most of the captives were war prisoners and samller numbers were just kidnapped by roving gangs or just raided from their villages.
The stories told by those who survived the Atlantic crossing and wrote about how they were captured offers evidence. Another case I should have mentioned is that of Mohama Baquaqua of Djougou in Hausaland, Nigeria. He was simply kidnapped and trucked off to Bahia, Brazil where he was renamed as Jose da Costa. He eventually bought out his freedom then travelled to Haiti, U.S. and other places.
The case of Ajai Crowther is interesting: he was one day in the market wirh his mother. He wandered away a bit from his mother then was snatched away. He was in a ship bound for the Americas when the ship was stopped by the British Men'o War that the British had patrolling the West African coast after they decided to stop the Atlantic Trade. Crowther's ship was docked in Freetown, Sierra Leone where he became one of the "Recaptives". Subsequently, he made his way back to Nigeria--where by chance he found his mother. Crowther later became Bishop of Freetown--if my memory is correct.
Posts: 5492 | Registered: Nov 2004
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a. Welcome to Encyclopædia Britannica's Guide to Black History b. Slow Death for Slavery - Cambridge University Press c. Digital History Slavery Fact Sheets d. Tanzania - Stone Town of Zanzibar e. Fulani slave-raids f. Central African Republic: History
quote:and according to whose documents; Africans or foreigners.
I dont know
quote:Who were enslaving these folks, the former or the latter?
of course the stronger bigger group over the weaker. far as them being the majority Routledge in " the history of africa" pg.267 says about half. where he gets this, god knows best I ran across al-jahiz's treatise the superiority of the blacks over the whites in which he is told by the zanj They say: You have never seen the genuine Zanj. You have only seen captives who came from the coasts and forests and valleys of Qanbuluh, from our menials, our lower orders, and our slaves. The people of Qanbaluh have neither beauty nor intelligence. Qanbaluh is the name of the place by which your ships anchor. Here is a website by bbc in which it says in its home page " written from an afrcan perspective" has quotes from present day africans and books.
-------------------- لا اله الا الله و محمد الرسول الله Posts: 495 | From: anchorage, alaska | Registered: Feb 2007
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I am not lying about my experience. I have takled to numerous elder african men and they have expressed their superiority over aa's. I had to hear this my whole extent through out college. I am not saying that this is the expressed feelings for all africans however i know what i have heared in my face and i know what other africans ( who are not aa haters)tell me. Are africans excused from having a superiority complex, or are they as human as intended by thier lord. oh yeah relax! There is no hate for somalis or carribeans or aliens just experience. and yeah i know about lots of foriegners having degrees and only working at walmart but this does not negate that their are africans who are aa haters. to each his own and uh still not done u might want to save that vaseline for you and your in house hubby
-------------------- لا اله الا الله و محمد الرسول الله Posts: 495 | From: anchorage, alaska | Registered: Feb 2007
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^ So! I have heard from many elder Western Europeans who've expressed their supremacy over Slavs and Hungarians who are also white.
In fact, I find it funny how today the very term of slavery has so much associated baggage with African Americans or peoples of African descent in general but you never hear a peep about the very etymology of the word-- Slavs as in Slavic peoples of eastern Europe who were enslaved not only by Turks and Arabs but by Western Europeans!!
This whole topic about African slavery is soo old. We have more than our share threads of the same topic back in the archives! I suggest you look there Abdulkarem. Posts: 26239 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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Here is a website by bbc in which it says in its home page " written from an afrcan perspective" has quotes from present day africans and books. [/QB]
It's funny how you cite what I've already tried to elaborate on, particularly the opening quote from King Afonso, whom I've already referenced:
"They seize numbers of our free or freed black subjects, and even nobles, sons of nobles, even the members of our own family." Excerpt from letter from Affonso, King of Congo, to King of Portugal João III, 18 October 1526.
^Pretty much a spit in the face to your "African Americans are exclusively the descendants of lower class and enslaved Africans" hypothesis. Not to mention what lamin correctly points out about POWs in which you also neglect random salve raiding, which was pretty persistent:
African traders transported slaves from the interior of Africa. Equiano and others found themselves sold and traded more than once, often in slave markets. African merchants, the poor, royalty -- anyone -- could be abducted in the raids and wars that were undertaken by Africans to secure slaves that they could trade. The slave trade devastated African life. Culture and traditions were torn asunder, as families, especially young men, were abducted. Guns were introduced and slave raids and even wars increased. - The African Slave Trade and the Middle Passage
The fact also that "weaker" clans/ethnys were conquered is a given and is redundant to mention. The point is that AAs are extremely diverse and comprise many different clans/ethnys, some of which can be considered relatively weak, and others which are rather well known and renowned through out west Africa.
As far as African superiority towards AAs; I fail to see how this is notable since it goes both ways for all ignorant peoples. Do you suppose that African-Americans receive positive images of Africa that would reinforce some sort of unspoken bond? Of course not, and those AAs who identify with Africa most are those among the most enlightened and socially sensitive.
Posts: 4021 | From: Bay Area, CA | Registered: Mar 2007
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posted
Yeah? Well now America's the top of the world, biatch!
quote:I have takled to numerous elder african men and they have expressed their superiority over aa's.
So! I have heard from elder African Americans, and other African Americans about our superiority over both whities and the 'savagery' Africans who also have 'primitive' and 'unsanitary' habbits.
And either how, it's somehow good we were enslaved,
or how that's what the white in us is good for; it keeps us balanced.
You know, since I heard these comments when I was young, I had forgotten about them but just thinking about them let's me know why many of us think so lowly of white folk, african folk, our own folk, and almost anybody else. They say the man who hates the world hates himself. That's some ****ed up ****, if you ask me.
I doubt that these slaves were perpetual slaves, and haven't the slightest idea what an African or any other misled Inferiority/Superiority complex with respect to African Americans fits into the equation.
Djehuti's first post is a good one.
quote:Still not Done:
You actually think that whites are actually distinguishing AAs from somalis, carribeans, and sudanese. And giving all of the jobs to these people.
No, the people apparently thought they could get some jobs alot easier than we could based on their personal skill compared to our collective skill (which is based on who knows).
Other than that, it is not all that unimagine able that some people's hateration level towards AAs is higher than foreigners enough to give them jobs over us. Be them black, chinese, arabic or hispanic maybe, it's all political at the end of the day. And I know that right now the hate is probably more centered at 'Hispanic' and possibly Arab immigrants.
quote:I guess that's why African Americans have a collected buying power between 400 to 600 billion dollars.
Yes, which is why, less successful or otherwise, Afromerican success and progress tends to be downplayed, often to the point where it is inferred that we have become less and less successful at every step. Bogus.
quote:To the deranged race loon this can't possibly be. Because somalis, carribeans, and sudanese are getting all of the jobs.
No one is possibly taking all the jobs from Black Americans.
Maybe the aforesaid African and Caribean loons who thought they could take any job from any African American think so.
IMO, no need to help take the topic off on more of a tangent than it was.
Now I read back and see, that it was not the 'racial' attitudes alone that mattered but the fact that it is the same with Europe and her American progeny.
Then again, in both cases, in the American controlled media, the Americans get the last say on their ancestral homelands. Quite funny. Also funny, is that those here are descended from more than just eternal slaves, prisoners, and disabled by far.
I'm not surprised that Africans have something to hate about us, pretty much everyone seens need to find something to hate about us for some reason or other.
After all, we are somehow the source of all the world's evils, aren't we?
You have to understand the psychology involved. Those Africans who travelled to the U.S. years ago[you mention "elderly African men"]faced first of all a barrage of prejudices and stereotypes from all Americans. Also there was the implicit but quiet humiliation of having to leave one's home in a huge continent for basic studies and jobs in the lands of those who enslaved and colonised the African.
In the heads of most whites--just by reading the white nationalist blogs and observing the paternalistic attitudes of liberal whites--is the belief that "those people must be culturally and biological inferior because they have to run to us for education and jobs. If they were our equals they would just find ways to educate themselves and find jobs for themselves".
Some African Americans felt uncomfortable before newly arrived Africans because the African presence reminded them of soemthing they were made to feel was the source of their social status and indirectly most of their woes. White America constantly made the African American pay for his African phenotype--which was not respected within the black community--as representative of a biologically inferior that had never produced anything worthy of human admiration.
In terms of "who is getting the jobs doled out by the majority society" note that there are some 42 million blacks in the U.S. society. Of which only 4 million or so are from outside the U.S.--mainly from places like Haiti(population 8 million), Jamaica(population 2.6 million) with smaller numbers from Africa. So it's difficult to see how 10-12% of a given population could be offered most of the jobs.
In the U.S. it would seem that the displacement is coming mainly from the so-called Hispanics whose phenotypes run the racial gamut with many indidtinguishable from their "Anglo" counterparts.
So the only defense in this instance was to cultivate a very false sense of superiority as a psychological cover. I say "false sense of superiority" because there was absolutely no real basis for such.
But again, the real proof of real trans-Atlantic sentiments is found in the naturally friendly and welcoming attitudes that African Americans experience when they visit Africa. They are genuinely surprised at the spontaneous friendship displayed. And AAs are greatly admired for their prowess in sports that are internationally followed: boxing, basketball, athletics, etc. and of course for their music.
On the other hand the accomodation is not reciprocated equally when Africans visit the U.S. The reason being that American society and African society are quite different in terms of social interaction. In fact, paternalistic whites, in general, tend to be more accomodating than AAs. But, of course, there are many exceptions.
Posts: 5492 | Registered: Nov 2004
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He seems to have quoted the Wikipedia artical on the African slave trade. Many of the article's figures on African slavery, in turn, seem to have come from here. Unfortunately the Encyclopedia Britannica does not seem to provide footnotes for this particular article, making it difficult to verify.
I would take any article or work reporting figures, statistics or the like, with some grain of salt, if it doesn't cite the primary sources for them, and especially so, if it is supposed to be traced back to ancient or very distant timeframes.
Posts: 1947 | Registered: Sep 2005
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a. Welcome to Encyclopædia Britannica's Guide to Black History b. Slow Death for Slavery - Cambridge University Press c. Digital History Slavery Fact Sheets d. Tanzania - Stone Town of Zanzibar e. Fulani slave-raids f. Central African Republic: History
So all of these works are the source for the single quote that you posted, or is it more like Tyro's Wiki link. I'm willing to bet that it is the latter.
quote: Originally posted by abdulkarem3:
quote:and according to whose documents; Africans or foreigners.
I dont know
See, there lies a problem. We need to know who are the *primary* sources of these figures, which would mean, documents taken from people living in the times specified.
quote:Originally posted by abdulkarem3:
quote:Who were enslaving these folks, the former or the latter?
of course the stronger bigger group over the weaker.
Makes no sense. Abdul, you could have simply answered the question, which was very specific btw, as to whether they were Africans themselves or non-Africans/foreigners. Yes, the question was that simple.
Posts: 1947 | Registered: Sep 2005
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I am not lying about my experience. I have takled to numerous elder african men and they have expressed their superiority over aa's. I had to hear this my whole extent through out college. I am not saying that this is the expressed feelings for all africans however i know what i have heared in my face and i know what other africans ( who are not aa haters)tell me. Are africans excused from having a superiority complex, or are they as human as intended by thier lord. oh yeah relax! There is no hate for somalis or carribeans or aliens just experience. and yeah i know about lots of foriegners having degrees and only working at walmart but this does not negate that their are africans who are aa haters.
First-hand encounter of the implementation of certain stereotypes, which in various occasions would have otherwise been learnt primarily from the mass media, has no doubt contributed to the fostering of such thinking.
Posts: 1947 | Registered: Sep 2005
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quote:Pretty much a spit in the face to your "African Americans are exclusively the descendants of lower class and enslaved Africans" hypothesis
They say: You have never seen the genuine Zanj. You have only seen captives who came from the coasts and forests and valleys of Qanbuluh, from our menials, our lower orders, and our slaves. The people of Qanbaluh have neither beauty nor intelligence. Qanbaluh is the name of the place by which your ships anchor
pretty much a slap in the cranium with a pistola to your aa's are all kings and ex-soldier dreams. I know the group is mixed in occupation and nobody said all
-------------------- لا اله الا الله و محمد الرسول الله Posts: 495 | From: anchorage, alaska | Registered: Feb 2007
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quote:Pretty much a spit in the face to your "African Americans are exclusively the descendants of lower class and enslaved Africans" hypothesis
They say: You have never seen the genuine Zanj. You have only seen captives who came from the coasts and forests and valleys of Qanbuluh, from our menials, our lower orders, and our slaves. The people of Qanbaluh have neither beauty nor intelligence. Qanbaluh is the name of the place by which your ships anchor
pretty much a slap in the cranium with a pistola to your aa's are all kings and ex-soldier dreams. I know the group is mixed in occupation and nobody said all
Hardly any AAs come from east Africa (the Swahili coast), but plenty came from Kongo, so your little out-of-context quote from Al-jahiz can be seen as a desperate ploy to save face. Get over yourself. Thank you. Still awaiting the evidence supporting your bunk theory.
Posts: 4021 | From: Bay Area, CA | Registered: Mar 2007
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posted
Silly statements like "all ex kings" are bereft of reason, what population is all royalty? The framer of the statement need no longer be taken seriously
Why bother with him? The man obviously knows little to nothing about this field. He's simply spouting pop history and American sociology about it.
Anyone halfway serious would've read accounts written by the literate enslaved Africans like
Prince among slaves
quote: The slave ship Africa set sail from Gambia, West Africa, its berth laden with a profitable but highly perishable cargo-hundreds of men, women and children bound in chains--headed to American shores. Six months later, a handful of survivors would find themselves for sale in Natchez, Mississippi. One of them, a 26-year-old man named Abdul Rahman Ibrahima would make a most remarkable claim to Thomas Foster, the tobacco farmer who purchased him at auction: As an African prince, highly educated and heir to a kingdom, his father would gladly pay gold for his return.
Abdul Rahman would not return to Africa for another 40 years. In that time he would toil on the plantation to make his owner rich. He would marry and father nine children. He would also become the most famous African in America, attracting the support of such powerful men as President John Quincy Adams and Secretary of State Henry Clay. Later in life, he would travel widely throughout the northern states, speaking to huge audiences in an attempt to raise enough money to buy his children out of slavery. And finally, at the age of 67, he would return to Africa, only to fall ill and die just as word of his return reached his former kingdom. Through it all, Abdul would maintain his dignity and hope for the freedom of his people.
Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: ^ So! I have heard from many elder Western Europeans who've expressed their supremacy over Slavs and Hungarians who are also white.
In fact, I find it funny how today the very term of slavery has so much associated baggage with African Americans or peoples of African descent in general but you never hear a peep about the very etymology of the word-- Slavs as in Slavic peoples of eastern Europe who were enslaved not only by Turks and Arabs but by Western Europeans!!
This whole topic about African slavery is soo old. We have more than our share threads of the same topic back in the archives! I suggest you look there Abdulkarem.
And another thing. I'm sure alot of you are unaware that the first black African in America was a free immigrant while the first slave was a white European! The white man became a slave after he tried escaping his indentured servitude that was due to his debts.
Posts: 26239 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
And who was this and in which American nation and when?
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: And another thing. I'm sure alot of you are unaware that the first black African in America was a free immigrant while the first slave was a white European!
Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006
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quote:Originally posted by abdulkarem3: if aa's are mostly descendants of the this type of civilizations then could it be factored in that their ancestors were never considered part of the famed civilizations. This would be particular seen in all other societies as well in which slaves are not considered even part of the entity in which they may belong to, so how then would they fit into the grand scheme of these major civilizations. i once saw a norweigian arguing with an american who claimed norweigian descent and he was stern in his position of the american not being norweigian at all regardless of the person's descent. I heared horror stories of aa's encounters with africans back in the days when the african medallion was fadish and having it stripped off of their person because an African vehemently pronounced his opinion of aa's not being African. I myself recall attending a All black private college in which the soccer team(consisting of a somali,carribeans, and sudanese) in which i was a member, told me that they would recieve a job by a white employer more than aa's and how they are trusted more than aa's. I remember a trinidadian( and he's only mentioned because their culture are more closer to african culture than aa's) telling me how he hated aa's and that he thought they were ignorant. These statements that i recieved from my colleagues reminded me of the many dialouges i have had with europeans concerning their relations with white americans. It is no doubt that the original racial demographic of the state which is called americas (euro-afro-indian) were from societies who were outcasted from other societies or basically slaves. It seems the more one group was outcasted the faster the cultural amalgamation.
I can't help but think you just have something against African Americans or something
Slaves became part of the community in traditional African slavery, like other people have said here
quote:Howard Zinn's people's history of the united States :Slavery existed in the African states, and it was sometimes used by Europeans to justify their own slave trade. But, as Davidson points out, the "slaves" of Africa were more like the serfs of Europe -- in other words, like most of the population of Europe. It was a harsh servitude, but but they had rights which slaves brought to America did not have, and they were "altogether different from the human cattle of the slave ships and the American plantations." In the Ashanti Kingdom of West Africa, one observer noted that "a slave might marry; own property; himself own a slave; swear an oath; be a competent witness and ultimately become heir to his master... An Ashanti slave, nine cases out of ten, possibly became an adopted member of the family, and in time his descendants so merged and intermarried with the owner's kinsmen that only a few would know their origin."
quote:page 3 tomes of timbuktu :The museum plans to highlight a little-known connection between its host state and the manuscripts of Timbuktu: the story of Ibrahima Abd ar-Rahman, an 18th-century prince from what is now Guinea who studied at Timbuktu before being sold into slavery in Natchez, Miss. The prince's saga contradicts another widely held Western belief -- that Africans sold in the slave trade were uncivilized. In fact, many were doctors, dentists, lawyers, professors, musicians and members of royal families. And a large number were Muslim.
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: ^ So! I have heard from many elder Western Europeans who've expressed their supremacy over Slavs and Hungarians who are also white.
In fact, I find it funny how today the very term of slavery has so much associated baggage with African Americans or peoples of African descent in general but you never hear a peep about the very etymology of the word-- Slavs as in Slavic peoples of eastern Europe who were enslaved not only by Turks and Arabs but by Western Europeans!!
This whole topic about African slavery is soo old. We have more than our share threads of the same topic back in the archives! I suggest you look there Abdulkarem.
And another thing. I'm sure alot of you are unaware that the first black African in America was a free immigrant while the first slave was a white European! The white man became a slave after he tried escaping his indentured servitude that was due to his debts.
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