posted
Hawass confuses me... he seems to flip flop a lot...
On the race of the Egyptians: "Tutankhamun was not black, and the portrayal of ancient Egyptian civilisation as black has no element of truth to it" "Egyptians are not Arabs and are not Africans despite the fact that Egypt is in Africa,"
So he knows for sure they were not black or Arabs...but on video he's not sure what they are... what gives? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUaWazRHTLg "If we talk about race in Ancient Egypt and we try to look at the Ancient Egyptian and find out the origin of these people - it's so difficult"
He explains away the dark color as symbolic and also explains away the white color as symbolic. So he is not sure what racial background they are, yet he makes a statement about what they were NOT as a race based on being unsure? What happened to being 100% sure about the "discoveries" you make to the public before releasing it?
Zahi Hawass - "If you are a scientist you cannot announce a discovery unless you are sure hundred percent" I guess he's admitting he's not a scientist then and we shouldn't take his word on anything that has to do with anthropology anyway.
______
On the 90 mummies Germany wanted to donate: "Secretary General of the SCA Zahi Hawwas said that these mummies are not royal and of no importance."
"The royal mummies will not give us important evidence about the people because the majority of the Egyptians were common people. The royal family and officials maybe represent only 20% of population. And in my opinion the non-royal mummies could be very important project for us"
Is this guy senile?Can he not make up his mind on anything or are these "quotes" that we haven't seen him make himself fallacies?.
astenb Member # 14524
posted
good catch
Johnny Blaze Member # 13931
posted
So I guess they were Aliens! That katt Hawass shouldn't even call him self a scientist, on the real. Me personally, I don't care what race those folks were, but I would like honest facts, and science. That's where Hawass fails at, he wants to be the next Howard Carter, he should stop smiling in cameras and start digging.
Djehuti Member # 6698
posted ROTFLMAO
Non of this is news! I mean, "flip-flopper" is an understatement. Remember what he said about Joanne Fletcher's mummy who was presumed to be Nefertiti??! "It's not a female, it's a male".. Days later.. "It's a female but too old".. later.. "It's a male.." and then "It's a female but too young" LMAO
And this is the guy whom 'Americanpatriot' takes as valid authority!
hibbah Member # 12156
posted
Hi you guys, I'm just popping in because I see you're discussing Zaki Hawass. I met him at a lecture he gave at my University, and he was a pompous jerk.
Thats my two cents.
Djehuti Member # 6698
posted
^ Wow, I know the guy is pompous on TV and other media, but even in person?! I guess it's true then that the guy is like a tryannical dictator of archaeology in Egypt.
And again, just to point out one thing positive about Hawass, is his passion to preserve the ancient heritage of this country. Other than that, he is a megalomaniac of Egyptology and his denial of the African identity of his country's ancient heritage is just as hilarious.
congoman Member # 16073
posted
this guy is trying not to offend those racist eurocentrists who spend money in egypt. but how can he say that kings colored themselves black to symbolize fertility of the land while their hairs are trully nappy, curly or pure african.
Djehuti Member # 6698
posted
^ 'Pure' African hair is not only 'nappy' or kinky but varies to curly and even wavy forms. Hair is not the only issue however.
The point is the man works in tombs where he's surrounded by obvious paintings of blacks and in a TV program he says about queen Tiye "The painted bust shows a very strong woman with strong character.."
Here is the bust of Tiye he speaks of
Yet in another program he goes on to say that "The Egyptians were not black, they are different from the blacks and had different features from blacks"...
LMAO Thus his insane contradictions knows no bounds.
Obenga Member # 1790
posted
Hawass will be remembered as a racist like those early 20th century Egyptologists like Reisner and Petrie.
He could of took the ball and led Egyptology into a new era by boldy stating Kemts africanity and making sure the world perceives and represents it that way.
Imagine all the Nat geographic and Discovery channel stuff this guy has an influence over. He could have shaped what the world see's and slam the door on the non african civilization BS for good and be the man known for it as we go forward.
Hawass flopped........what does he think improved scientific investigative techniques will reveal as the decades roll along.....it's an open secret as it is....but this lie is going to be dam hard to keep from the mainstream as science makes it that much easier and simpler for the mainstream to not be fooled by a lack of knowledge of African diversity and light and dark skin games.
He knows the deal and could of made a place for himself in Egyptology that would never be eclipsed. Racism and tribalism has blocked his vision.....history will remember him as a racist.
TheAmericanPatriot Member # 15824
posted
We have queen Tiy's mummy Dhehuti and she is a red head. You are being a bit dishonest here. You post the statue that most supports the case you are trying to make and simply leave out all of the others. This is why afrocentric scholarship cannot get off the ground, it is dishonest at every turn. Obenga, Another cheap shot. Calling everyone who does not agree with your wild ideas a racist is lame. This is typical of blacks who are taught from birth to play the victim card at every opportunity. Yes, Hawass could have done as you suggested but he did not. He did not because he, like most of us know these radical afrocentric ideas are nonsense.
Obenga Member # 1790
posted
Patriot,
It stings doesn't it.....swallow it up kid, it only gets worse from here on in. Pretty soon folks like you won't even have the comfort of living in denial anymore.
BTW, how's that new President working out for y'all over there?
TheAmericanPatriot Member # 15824
posted
The new president is great Obenga, thanks for asking.
Doug M Member # 7650
posted
LOL! Absolutely Hawass is an attention seeking, self serving hypocrite.
And no Tiye's mummy has never been found or positively identified. The fact that mummies have reddish to orange brown hair is meaningless, considering the fact that Africans have been dyeing their hair red for THOUSANDS of years and the fact that mummified hair is often discolored. But in Tiye's case, it isn't relevant because there is no mummy. So the fact is that the only one being disingenuous is you as the bust of Tiye has features and a color that can be found on THOUSANDS if not millions of Africans including some Egyptians.
Knowledgeiskey718 Member # 15400
posted
quote:Posted by AmericanPatriot: We have queen Tiy's mummy Dhehuti and she is a red head.
Well the mummy identified as Tiye was analyzed by anthropologist/orthodontist James Harris, and Egyptologist Edward Wente. The following are the results from Tiye's mummy, as well as her mother Tjuya. I guess you're saying Tiye was a round forward, prognathous redhead? Funny how you're quick to say Egyptians distinguished between themselves and Nubians, that Nubians are "Negroid" , Egyptians are "Caucasoid" etc.. etc... Yet as we can see from the following the Egyptians are closely comparable to Nubians. Go figure patriot.......
James Harris and Edward Wente conducted an x-ray analysis of the New Kingdom royal mummies with the results published in their book X-ray Atlas of the Royal Mummies (Chicago: University of Chicago, 1980). Included in the work were cephalograms of Pharaohs of the XVII-XX Dynasties and their queens.
First identified as Queen Tiye The occipital bun is reminiscent of Mesolithic Nubians (see below). Sagittal plateau, rounded forehead with moderately projecting glabella; globular cranium with high vault. Protrusion of incisors, receding chin and steep mandible. Very vertical zygomatic arches and pronounced maxillary prognathism.
The Elder Lady possesses an occipital bun comparable to Mesolithic Nubians.
Falkor Member # 14619
posted
Who cares what colour the Egyptians were... what is certain is that Zahi Hawwas is not worthy of his post. I've read his books, but he fails to properly address where Tutankhamun, and the other Pharaohs, lived. I wish I could have attended a Q&A session to ask him the name of the palace where Tutankhamun resided in Thebes. I know he would not be able to answer it, nor simply say "we do not know" because he is more a public figure and manager of people than a historian.
Vilewoman Member # 18563
posted
I know I am extremely late in replying to this thread, however I wish to voice my views on the subject.
First off, I don't think skin color really matters when it comes to the amazing achievements of the ancient Egyptians, but...this is strong evidence that they are actually Southern African and only later migrated north to Egypt.
First off the hair. I am not sure many of you seem to be aware that these are in fact, wigs. Egyptians shaved their heads due to the thousands of insects along the Nile. Some of the poor may have kept their own hair, but all mummies are from upper middle class to rich Egyptians. As they were the only ones who could have afforded mummification. The more elaborate the wig, the more status. In the Case of the bust shown above of Tiye, she is showing off her status with the bust and extremely intricately braided wig. If it was red again showing status, not race.
Although not widely known, there is a site called Nabta Playa which has been dated so far, to be about 10 to 8,000 years old. (And could in fact be much older.) It's a astronomical calendar. Of course, Mr. Hawass will never let this information go public because he doesn't agree firt of all and he didn't find it. He's also very guilty of letting ancient sites along the way be damaged daily. (There are ancient pictographs along the way showing Egyptian culture is much much older and it has graffiti all over it, Hawass does nothing to protect the site.) If you think Hawass flip flops often you are right, if think he is a jerk you are right. What many don't know is how truly horrific this man is to archaeology. He steals others discoveries and doesn't allow others who find things he disagrees with to publish at all. That is why the big problems with Dr. Fletcher came about. Because the camera were rolling, he knew he couldn't out and out steal her discovery. If you ever visit Hawass's website you will find most of his "findings" aren't even his. A horse, a donkey and Carter found Hapshepsut in 1903. Yes, Hawass is low enough to steal even older discoveries.
Falkor, He couldn't answer you about Tut because the fact is they don't know. Carter had no idea who he was when he was found. Tut's (and his father's name) was taken from the Wall of Abydos because of his father's controversy. Little is known about his life. Since all ancient records of him and his family were destroyed.
In closing, it is very likely that Egyptians were "black" (skin color is just the bodies protection from sun exposure) but it could also be that over many thousands of years of living in the Northern parts of Egypt their skin did get lighter in appearance. Men were colored brown and women red, both could accurate.
Truthcentric Member # 3735
posted
Welcome to our humble forum, Vilewoman.
quote:Originally posted by Vilewoman: In closing, it is very likely that Egyptians were "black" (skin color is just the bodies protection from sun exposure) but it could also be that over many thousands of years of living in the Northern parts of Egypt their skin did get lighter in appearance.
That would depend on how long the ancient Egyptian people lived in Egypt and how fast human skin color can change in a population.
aintplayin22 Member # 18179
posted
A flip-flopper my asss. Hawass is a racist spin doctor is more like it.
First King Tut was analyzed as having died from a blow to the head, then a stabbing, then an infection from a broken leg injury, then back to the blow to the head again, and the latest Malaria.
Then the Bernhard Nocht Institute for Tropical Medicine has given their opinion King Tut died from Sickle-Cell Disease, which they have stated could be confirmed in about 60 minutes.
Djehuti Member # 6698
posted
^ I wonder what Hawass thinks of Tut dying from "the black man's disease". LOL
aintplayin22 Member # 18179
posted
^That infamous curator is gathering so much loot from the exploitation of the Kemetians, I doubt if he cares.
Ish Gebor Member # 18264
posted
At least one thing is clear for sure from his statements.
He actually is saying that he not indigenous to that land, or a descendant of the people who originated there. So aren't others of the many modern-day Egyptians living in Egypt nowadays.
In his own words, that is!
Calabooz Member # 18238
posted
Hawass resigned today!
tigerlily_misr Member # 3567
posted
I wish Dr. Hawass a good retirement; he deserves it.
And at least he can't be held anymore responsible for future lootings.
I am sure he is very disappointed that the Grand Egyptian Museum won't be inaugurated by him now.
Egyptians want the complete change of the government overnight. Well they will get it and will have to deal with the consequences. I don't want to hear anyone whining in a couple of months or years.
Good news about Dr. Hawass' retirement is that the Nefertiti bust WILL stay in Germany.
King_Scorpion Member # 4818
posted
quote:Originally posted by Ish Gebor: At least one thing is clear for sure from his statements.
He actually is saying that he not indigenous to that land, or a descendant of the people who originated there. So aren't others of the many modern-day Egyptians living in Egypt nowadays.
In his own words, that is!
Of course Hawass isn't a descendent of Ancient Egyptians. It always used to irk me to hear him say the Ancient Egyptians were his ancestors! No the hell they aren't!! Of course I have no evidence for this, but I wouldn't be surprised if Hawass ordered Nabta Playa to be vandalized himself. The guy is a charlatan and has been exposed...finally.
Djehuti Member # 6698
posted
To Ish Gebor, since when has Hawass admitted to not being indigenous to Egypt or being a descendant of foreigners??! I want to know, because this is truly a big change in tune from him. For the longest Hawass would not only claim to be a descendant of the ancient Egyptians but that he and his family directly descend from the pharaohs [sic]! I kid you not. The guy has actually stated this more than once, yet he never bothers to describe how or from what dynasty. Claiming descent from the ancients is one thing, since genetic studies do confirm that even a good portion of the 'Arab' populace has indigenous African ancestry, but saying you're a descendant of pharaohs is another matter. Also, Hawass and his family comes from the Egyptian city of Damietta in the eastern Delta which was actually an Arab outpost during the Islamic invasion.
Djehuti Member # 6698
posted
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_misr:
I wish Dr. Hawass a good retirement; he deserves it.
And at least he can't be held anymore responsible for future lootings.
I am sure he is very disappointed that the Grand Egyptian Museum won't be inaugurated by him now.
Egyptians want the complete change of the government overnight. Well they will get it and will have to deal with the consequences. I don't want to hear anyone whining in a couple of months or years.
Good news about Dr. Hawass' retirement is that the Nefertiti bust WILL stay in Germany.
Hawass may have been an a**hole, but he still cared about the antiquities and ancient heritage of his country. I will give him that much. Whether he will enjoy his retirement is another matter. Frankly I'd hate to be an Egyptian government official right now.
Ish Gebor Member # 18264
posted
quote:Originally posted by King_Scorpion:
quote:Originally posted by Ish Gebor: At least one thing is clear for sure from his statements.
He actually is saying that he not indigenous to that land, or a descendant of the people who originated there. So aren't others of the many modern-day Egyptians living in Egypt nowadays.
In his own words, that is!
Of course Hawass isn't a descendent of Ancient Egyptians. It always used to irk
me to hear him say the Ancient Egyptians were his ancestors! No the hell they aren't!! Of course I have no evidence for this, but I wouldn't be surprised if Hawass ordered Nabta Playa to be vandalized himself. The guy is a charlatan and has been exposed...finally.
Oh yes, there is evidence of this. It's in his own words....in the opening statement. Where speaks of the origin of the ancient Egyptians...and how difficult it "so called" is...to find who they were...
Ish Gebor Member # 18264
posted
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: To Ish Gebor, since when has Hawass admitted to not being indigenous to Egypt or being a descendant of foreigners??! I want to know, because this is truly a big change in tune from him. For the longest Hawass would not only claim to be a descendant of the ancient Egyptians but that he and his family directly descend from the pharaohs [sic]! I kid you not. The guy has actually stated this more than once, yet he never bothers to describe how or from what dynasty. Claiming descent from the ancients is one thing, since genetic studies do confirm that even a good portion of the 'Arab' populace has indigenous African ancestry, but saying you're a descendant of pharaohs is another matter. Also, Hawass and his family comes from the Egyptian city of Damietta in the eastern Delta which was actually an Arab outpost during the Islamic invasion.
I honestly have never heard him make any of such claim.
But I noticed that in the opening statement. Where speaks of the origin of the ancient Egyptians...and how difficult it "so called" is...to find who they were, he does not connect himself to the ancients. He address speculation...
I did not mention the pharaohs. I spoke of the ancient Egyptians as the originater of that land.
The debate on Arab and Northeast African history is a different one. In my opinion.
IronLion Member # 16412
posted
quote:Originally posted by Calabooz: Hawass resigned today!
Zahi Hawass, Egypt’s antiquities minister, said in a telephone interview on Friday that while he is planning to resign he had not yet and still holds the post. He clarified his status after an ArtsBeat report on Thursday said he had already stepped down.
......
Reached by telephone on Thursday Mr. Hawass said he was happy that he had made the “right decision” and lashed out at colleagues who have criticized him, including one who has accused him of smuggling antiquities.
quote:Originally posted by Ish Gebor: I honestly have never heard him make any of such claim.
I have only heard it from other Egyptians like Ausar and even Dana who worked with him.
quote:But I noticed that in the opening statement. Where speaks of the origin of the ancient Egyptians...and how difficult it "so called" is...to find who they were, he does not connect himself to the ancients. He address speculation...
I did not mention the pharaohs. I spoke of the ancient Egyptians as the originater of that land.
The debate on Arab and Northeast African history is a different one. In my opinion.
LOL I wonder why there is such a big mystery as to who the ancient Egyptians were and what their origins are yet never the ancient Greeks, Romans, etc. All the evidence existing shows that they were natives of the Nile Valley specifically and Africa in general with more ancient ancestral sources in the Sahara and Sudan. Yet so-called 'experts' like Hawass still question their origins.
tigerlily_misr Member # 3567
posted
"... I would like to tell people that I am still in my office and will be until the government has announced my successor. I have not been as happy as I have been for the last two days for a very long time. Of course, I am very, very sad to be losing my love, my work in archaeology, but this website will still be my voice against those who threaten the preservation of Egyptian antiquities. This site will stay open and be updated daily.
Those followers of Seth in the Ministry of Antiquities who have tried to spread rumors against me, are corrupt. One copied the dissertation of a fellow scholar and caused a mummy from an excavation to be stolen, and the file of another shows they were corrupt, fired many times from office and also stole things. Sadly, during the revolution, many people have found the opportunity to spread rumors for their own benefit, even against me. People are horribly abusing the hard work of the youths who fought for democracy to attack me! One of these people is even a university professor who worked in my position for nearly six years before me, but achieved nothing during his tenure and is now causing problems.
However, these are really minor things in my life and if you are an influential person, then lots of people will attack you. If I had spent my career worrying about criticism all of my life, I would never have achieved what I am proud to say that I have achieved. I try to make informed decisions and resolve my problems, and this is the first time ever that I have not been able to do anything about something I feel strongly about. I have not been able to do enough in recent days about the robbery of our heritage and this is why I have decided to resign as the Minister of State for Antiquities."
posted
^ LOL Well you can't keep a pompous jerk down! Or is that there is no rest for the wicked.
tigerlily_misr Member # 3567
posted
Ah I can't say I am a big fan of Hawass, although he an excellent and hard-working archaeologist he comes around as annoying, arrogant and feisty, simply unprofessional at times IMHO. But he fights for the return of Egyptian artifacts back to Egypt like no one else does and it is rather impressive. I like that. But no matter what the Germans are in control - the bust the masterpiece ain't gonna return.
posted 
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LMAO Thus his insane contradictions knows no bounds.
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