MURAL OF THE RACES also known as TABLE OF NATIONS CORRECTED
tomb of Rameses III valley of Biban-el-Moluk
I have to thank Wally for proving the following quote from Jean-Francois Champollion which corrects errors made in regard to a Mural called
"The Mural of The Races"
also known as
"The Table of Nations"
The picture often shown:
is incomplete. There are actual 8 figuers. The indications of nationality or in some people's opinion "race" by the Egyptians to this mural applies to none of the four figures shown here. It's the other four above those figures in the below complete illustration although the exact arrangement on the tomb wall may be different. The indications of nationality or race by the Egyptians applies to a set of four figures (one is partial) that are slightly larger than the figures shown above. Champollion,the French Egyptologist who is acknowledged as the father of modern Egyptologybest known for his work on the Rosetta Stone resolves the identities of Mural of Races/Table of Nations in the remarks below. The illustration with all of the 8 figures is below. His remarks apply to the top row only but the figures in the top row of the illustration are in in a slightly different order which will be indicated. The "races" or "nationalities" apply only to the top set of figures only as will become clear.
_______________________Egy.___Nam.___Nah.__Tam.
TOP ROW LEFT TO RIGHT ___EGYPTIAN, NAMOU, NAHASI, TAMHAU (head and torso) ___(Rome)
translation: ____EGYPTIAN, ASIATIC, AFRICAN Not of Egypt, CAUCASIAN
slightly smaller BOTTOM ROW FIGURES NOT MENTIONED Another example that shows that these terms do not apply to the bottom row is that the last figure on the bottom row is not TAMHAU. The TAMHAU is the partial figure on the top right
________________________________
Jean-Francois Champollion: "Right in the valley of Biban-el-Moluk, we admired, like all previous visitors, the astonishing freshness of the paintings and the fine sculptures on several tombs. I had a copy made of the peoples represented on the bas-reliefs. At first I had thought, from copies of these bas-reliefs published in England, that these peoples of different races led by the god Horus holding his shepherd's staff, were indeed nations subject to the rule of the Pharaohs. A study of the legends informed me that this tableau has a more general meaning. It portrays the third hour of the day, when the sun is beginning to turn on its burning rays, warming all the inhabited countries of our hemisphere. According to the legend itself, they wished to represent the inhabitants of Egypt and those of foreign lands. Thus we have before our eyes the image of the various races of man known to the Egyptians and we learn at the same time the great geographical or ethnographical divisions established during that early epoch. Men led by Horus, the shepherd of the peoples, belong to four distinct families. The first, the one closest to the god, has a dark red color, a well-proportioned body, kind face, nose slightly aquiline, long braided hair, and is dressed in white. The legends designate this species as Rot-en-ne-Rome, the race of men par excellence i.e., the Egyptians. There can be no uncertainty about the racial identity of the man who comes next: he belongs to the Black race, designated under the general term Nahasi. The third presents a very different aspect; his skin color borders on yellow or tan; he has a strongly aquiline nose, thick, black pointed beard, and wears a short garment of varied colors; these are called Namou. Finally, the last one is what we call flesh-colored, a white skin of the most delicate shade, a nose straight or slightly arched, blue eyes, blond or reddish beard, tall stature and very slender clad in a hairy ox-skin, a veritable savage tattooed on various parts of his body; he is called Tamhou. I hastened to seek the tableau corresponding to this one in the other royal tombs and, as a matter of fact, I found it in several. The variations I observed fully convinced me that they had tried to represent here the inhabitants of the four corners of the earth, according to the Egyptian system, namely: 1. the inhabitants of Egypt which, by itself, formed one part of the world ...; 2. the inhabitants of Africa proper: Blacks; 3. Asians; 4. finally (and I am ashamed to say so, since our race is the last and the most savage in the series), Europeans who, in those remote epochs, frankly did not cut too fine a figure in the world. In this category we must include all blonds and white-skinned people living not only in Europe, but Asia as well, their starting point. This manner of viewing the tableau is all the more accurate because, on the other tombs, the same generic names reappear, always in the same order. We find there Egyptians and Africans represented in the same way, which could not be otherwise; but the Namou (the Asians) and the Tamhou (Europeans) present significant and curious variants. Instead of the Arab or the Jew, dressed simply and represented on one tomb, Asia's representatives on other tombs (those of Ramses II, etc.) are three individuals, tanned complexion, aquiline nose, black eyes, and thick beard, but clad in rare splendor. In one, they are evidently Assyrians, their costume, down to the smallest detail, is identical with that of personages engraved on Assyrian cylinders. In the other, are Medes or early inhabitants of some part of Persia. Their physiognomy and dress resemble, feature for feature, those found on monuments called Persepolitan. Thus, Asia was represented indiscriminately by any one of the peoples who inhabited it. The same is true of our good old ancestors, the Tamhou. Their attire is sometimes different; their heads are more or less hairy and adorned with various ornaments; their savage dress varies somewhat in form, but their white complexion, their eyes and beard all preserve the character of a race apart. I had this strange ethnographical series copied and colored. I certainly did not expect, on arriving at Biban-el-Moluk, to find sculptures that could serve as vignettes for the history of the primitive Europeans, if ever one has the courage to attempt it. Nevertheless, there is something flattering and consoling in seeing them, since they make us appreciate the progress we have subsequently achieved."
Categories of the Mural of Races/Table of Nationalities including Champollion's remarks
1) Romé(EGYPTIANS) (abbreviated; Ret) Ancient Egyptians: Men. We also have "romé na romé" or "Men above men (mankind)." Champollion: The The first, the one closest to the god, has a dark red color, a well-proportioned body, kind face, nose slightly aquiline, long braided hair, and is dressed in white. The legends designate this species as Rot-en-ne-Rome, the race of men par excellence i.e., the Egyptians
________________________________________________
2.Namu(Namou) "Asiatic" may include Syria, elsewhere Champollion: presents a very different aspect; his skin color borders on yellow or tan; he has a strongly aquiline nose, thick, black pointed beard, and wears a short garment of varied colors; these are called Namou _________________________________________________
3.Nahasu (Nahasi) - Other Africans foreign to Egypt incl. Kushites/Nubian Strangers or barbarians; Champollion: There can be no uncertainty about the racial identity of the man who comes next: he belongs to the Black race, designated under the general term Nahasi.
_________________________________________________
4. Tamhu - European: Red/pale yellow people Champollion: what we call flesh-colored, a white skin of the most delicate shade, a nose straight or slightly arched, blue eyes, blond or reddish beard, tall stature and very slender clad in a hairy ox-skin, a veritable savage tattooed on various parts of his body; he is called Tamhou. .
Posts: 42919 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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posted
Hey Mike. Asia it is. . . . the starting point of Europeans . Seems like Jean-Francois Champollion also believed that Europeans came from Asia. Hammer also agrees.
====== quote:
finally (and I am ashamed to say so, since our race is the last and the most savage in the series), Europeans who, in those remote epochs, frankly did not cut too fine a figure in the world. In this category we must include all blonds and white-skinned people living not only in Europe, but Asia as well, their starting point.
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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posted
The so-called "dark red" color is nothing more than the complexion of blacks. Non-Egyptian blacks ("Other Africans foreign to Egypt") have this complexion too, like the San and Kushites. Are we to then conclude from this that the San are the product of multiracial mixtures? The idea that "black race" is equivalent to the "true negro" phenotype is a myth. Posts: 4254 | From: dasein | Registered: Jun 2009
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quote:Originally posted by anguishofbeing: The so-called "dark red" color is nothing more than the complexion of blacks. Non-Egyptian blacks ("Other Africans foreign to Egypt") have this complexion too, like the San and Kushites. Are we to then conclude from this that the San are the product of multiracial mixtures? The idea that "black race" is equivalent to the "true negro" phenotype is a myth.
posted
"Arab" is not a racial designation but a linguistic term as they come in all colors - the original ones being black, i.e. those with the "dark red" skin tone of course.
And American Indians don't count in the context of ancient Egypt. Sorry. Posts: 4254 | From: dasein | Registered: Jun 2009
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quote:Originally posted by anguishofbeing: The so-called "dark red" color is nothing more than the complexion of blacks. Non-Egyptian blacks ("Other Africans foreign to Egypt") have this complexion too, like the San and Kushites. Are we to then conclude from this that the San are the product of multiracial mixtures? The idea that "black race" is equivalent to the "true negro" phenotype is a myth.
examples some Arabs American Indians
etc.
Here is an Egyptian with the Redish brown skin tone:
How can this man be Mixed when he clearly has the same Skin, and Facial shape of the Egyptian Artifacts left thousands of years ago. Look at the Mummy face to the Left, notice the Shape of the Head, the Nose, the Lips even are almost dead on the same.
A N.American
Totally different.
I mean you were'nt serious were you??
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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posted
^ also, it is interesting to note that those who use the American Indian example will argue that the red brown skin tone is native while the same tone on Egyptians is indicative of "admixture". LOL
Posts: 4254 | From: dasein | Registered: Jun 2009
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quote:Originally posted by anguishofbeing: ^ also, it is interesting to note that those who use the American Indian example will argue that the red brown skin tone is native while the same tone on Egyptians is indicative of "admixture". LOL
Exactly, Why is it that Egypt is the only Ancient Empire to be labeled either Mixed, Mediteranian, North African Caucasian..etc.
Rome and Greece-White
China-Asian
Mesopotamia-Middle Eastern
Why is China not "Far Eastern Mongoloid" and Mesopotamian Culture was WAY more Mixed than Egypt.
I mean would this even be a big deal if Egypt was in South of the Desert.???
How can people deny Egypt as Black when they left artifacts and art ike this...
Why with all the Art, Genetic, Limb, Cultural, Linguistic studies all pointing to an African Origin and Tropically Adapted body of the Egyptian..Why are these Euronuts still grasping at straws. This debate on the Egyptians race and skin ended like 2 yrs ago.
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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quote:Originally posted by anguishofbeing: The so-called "dark red" color is nothing more than the complexion of blacks. Non-Egyptian blacks ("Other Africans foreign to Egypt") have this complexion too, like the San and Kushites. Are we to then conclude from this that the San are the product of multiracial mixtures? The idea that "black race" is equivalent to the "true negro" phenotype is a myth.
I am not disputing in this thread that there are various skin tones of black people. I am disputing the statement above
anguishofbeing: "The so-called "dark red" color is nothing more than the complexion of blacks."
1)anguish didn't say there are a variety of skin tones. Here he makes it seem like all black people are dark red that the word is synonymous with "black"
2) why is the word "dark red" put in quotes? The color depicted is obviously reddish
3) the statement that dark red is "nothing more than the complexion of blacks" is incorrect. It is something more. It is a skin tone of many different types of people including people who are not black.
4) anguish says a "negro phenotype is a myth and then goes on to use a much less clearly defined term "black" and say that it is nothing more than a dark red skin tone.
For example:
Actor: George Hamilton .
Of course this has nothing to do with my main point, fact that the illustration of the so called "Mural or the Races" has been misinterpreted for years. Go ahead ignore that fact. There are a million posts about skin tones. reddish this, brown that yellowish this yellowish that. However the unique thing about this thread is that I am showing for probably the very first time the correct (or much more correct) identities of the figures at the tomb of Rameses III "Mural of the Races" also known as "Table of Nations". Go ahead, ignore this new information and re-tread another skin, phenotype post we've all read a million times.
Shout outs to Wally who posted the Champollion quote which cleared up Lepsius' error
Posts: 42919 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Originally posted by the lion: I am not disputing in this thread that there are various skin tones of black people. I am disputing the statement above
anguishofbeing: "The so-called "dark red" color is nothing more than the complexion of blacks."
1)anguish didn't say there are a variety of skin tones. Here he makes it seem like all black people are dark red that the word is synonymous with "black"
I already stated to you that blacks come in various shades, which was why I posted the "Nubian" pictures. Because you are slow you must have forgot or failed to make the connections. Please don't blame me for your lack of basic comprehension skills.
Posts: 4254 | From: dasein | Registered: Jun 2009
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First of all. The skin tone used for Egyptians mostly is a Reddish "Brown" Not just red.
You trying to claim that Nubians all looked the same is wrong. We know that some of the socalled Nubians were allies(Medjay) and some were enemies(Kushites).
I also Agree with Jari when he asks why is Egypt always looked at as a Mixed civilization when Greece and Mesopatamia were more mixed then Egypt.
I will say this though about Egypt, It was mixed in the sense that it was a coming together of Saharan and northeast Africans and central Africans.
Peace
Posts: 9651 | From: Reace and Love City. | Registered: Oct 2005
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posted
you are finally coming around 'the lion.' Good for you. That idiot Afrocentrist from Japan tried to use the very image that you just clarified to claim the ancient Egyptians looked like Nubians. I am happy you did not swallow his monkey ass red pill. Keep it up! Very soon you will abandon Afrocentrism all together.
Posts: 1340 | Registered: Apr 2010
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quote:Originally posted by the lion: a dark red skin tone.
For example:
Actor: George Hamilton
Come on, are you serious? This man above is supposed to be able to represent the brown reddish color of the ancient Egyptians? Posts: 6572 | From: N.Y.C....Capital of the World | Registered: Jun 2008
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posted
Hay muzungu !! you see the cat between the two lite-skinned dudes? check out the label it says Nahasu ..the other cat at the front dressed in the same manner is labeled Kmu..if you don't believe me go to a translation dictionary and look it up or ask Wally..and I also knew awhile back that this was no mural of races and posted as such
Confirming Truth???
quote: you are finally coming around 'the lion.' Good for you. That idiot Afrocentrist from Japan tried to use the very image that you just clarified to claim the ancient Egyptians looked like Nubians. I am happy you did not swallow his monkey ass red pill. Keep it up! Very soon you will abandon Afrocentrism all
Bahahhahahaha If that is what an Egyptian looks like, Then I have had it all wrong.
If people don't see how these people Forced themselves to look like this meanwhile the Egyptians were Naturally:
Brown, Reddish Brown. The sad thing about this is that the racists are trying to claim the lion as one of there own, instead of her being a Truthseeker. I hope she has a good reason for her ideas.
Peace
Posts: 9651 | From: Reace and Love City. | Registered: Oct 2005
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posted
Hey dyckward, you are a bigger fool if you think Egyptians ever depicted themselves in that kind of clothing. If that were an Egyptian, it obviously must have been a foreign one, during the time of foreign (Nubian) rule. She clobbered your bullsh*t claim and she deserves a kudos for that.
Do us all a solid and stay your ass in Japan, bottybwoi.
quote:Originally posted by Brada-Anansi: Hay muzungu !! you see the cat between the two lite-skinned dudes? check out the label it says Nahasu ..the other cat at the front dressed in the same manner is labeled Kmu..if you don't believe me go to a translation dictionary and look it up or ask Wally..and I also knew awhile back that this was no mural of races and posted as such
TOP ROW LEFT TO RIGHT 1.EGYPTIAN 2. NAMOU 3.NAHASI 3.TAMHAU (head and torso) ___(Rome)
translation: ____EGYPTIAN, ASIATIC, AFRICAN Not of Egypt,CAUCASIAN
_____________________________________________
THE ABOVE ORDER OF THE TOP ROW
1.EGYPTIAN 2. NAMOU 3.NAHASI 3.TAMHAU
IT HAS SIMPLY BEEN TRANSFERRED TO THE BOTTOM ROW AND THE WHOLE TOP ROW THEN DELETED AS BELOW:
___________________________________________
SO YOU CAN SEE THE CORRUPTION AND CONFUSION CAUSED BY THIS. THE ORDER OF THE TOP ROW
1.EGYPTIAN 2. NAMOU 3.NAHASI 3.TAMHAU
DOES NOT APPLY TO THE BOTTOM ROW.
MISTAKES:
THE BOTTOM RIGHT FIGURE IS NOT TAMHAU HE'S NAMOU THE FIRST FIGURE IS NOT ROME (EGYPTIAN) HE'S NAHASI. THE SECOND FIGURE IS NOT NAMU HE'S TAMHAU. THE ONLY FIGURE THAT IS CORRECT IS THE THIRD FIGURE HE'S ALSO NAHASI LIKE THE FIRST FIGURE. ONE OUT OF FOUR IS BAD.
There is another assumption that gets made, that glyphs to the right of a particular figure ARE talking about the figure they are to the right of.
Anybody with knowledge of how NAHASI are clothed in these types of painting scenes knows that they have a wide, straight sash going diagonally across their chest and sometimes have a leopard skin at the waist.
Why bother with all this detail? Any fool can see the top row (WHICH GOT DELETED) had an Egyptian of reddish skin at the top left of the COMPLETE eight figures picture and he does not not have the same skin tone or clothing as the brothers on the bottom row. come on son.
Posts: 42919 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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posted
the lion, that was EXCELLENT research. I think the Afrocentrists need to own up to, what appears to have been, a deliberate fabrication and which I suspect was contrived by an Afrocentrist.
Posts: 101 | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Originally posted by the lion: an Egyptian of reddish skin
I see brown.
call it what you want the color of the left most figure in the TOP row is not the color of the left most figure on the BOTTOM row. -see
Posts: 42919 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Jari-Ankhamun: This debate on the Egyptians race and skin ended like 2 yrs ago. [/QB]
I agree you are the one that tried to bring it back into this thread. This thread is about a mural called the "Mural of the Races" or "Table of Nation" and the fact that people have been mislabeling the which of the following terms go with which figure:
Romé Namu Nahasu Tamhu
and about whether certain book images are accurate at all.
you are the culprit in trying to change the focus to skin
Posts: 42919 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Muhommed Abed: the lion, that was EXCELLENT research. I think the Afrocentrists need to own up to, what appears to have been, a deliberate fabrication and which I suspect was contrived by an Afrocentrist.
Salaaam my brother, Im so glad you are back.
I think I found Allah before the writing of the Koran.
Notice the Clothes, Pure white Robes, Notice the hand gestures?? Could that Goddess be Allah prior to Persian Mythology??( you know Allah Pu-Rah, the Moon Goddess that Muhammed delcared was the only goddess, I mean god.)
You see I have been researching the pagan roots of Islam...and to make a long story short...
I have found some peculiar stuff... it gets bad...
REAL BAD!!!
So please stick around my Arabian brother so when I reveal my research you can be one of the victims I will thrash to pieces.
Peace be upon you....MY BROTHER Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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posted
I agree you are the one that tried to bring it back into this thread. This thread is about a mural called the "Mural of the Races" or "Table of Nation" and the fact that people have been mislabeling the which of the following terms go with which figure: Here is a quote from your very first post:
3.Nahasu (Nahasi) - Other Africans foreign to Egypt incl. Kushites/Nubian Strangers or barbarians; Champollion: There can be no uncertainty about the racial identity of the man who comes next: he belongs to the Black race, designated under the general term Nahasi.
You see how flawed your logic is. 1) You PUT RACE into the first Post you make. 2) You Eyeball what is and what is not "African Features" on another thread as proof that Khafre and Makura were "Not Africans". then when you are called out on it or made to own up to it you cover face by spin tactics.
Im not here to debate the race of the Egyptians. Read my posts Im showing you that the Reddish brown color of the Egyptians was and is the Skin color of Egyptians that border a Shad lighter on being so called Nubian.
Im simply showing you that the Darkest Egyptians HAVE the Reddish brown color to this day. Im not even attacking you, let alone trying to debate you.
Your post had that the Nubians were black while the Egyptians were red, Im showing you that is false.
Instead of Spinning and trying to come off as if you are Superwoman, why not lost the Ego and read what I am saying to you.
Romé Namu Nahasu Tamhu
and about whether certain book images are accurate at all. O.K did I ever say you were wrong for this?
you are the culprit in trying to change the focus to skin Again let me quote your very 1st post:
3.Nahasu (Nahasi) - Other Africans foreign to Egypt incl. Kushites/Nubian Strangers or barbarians; Champollion: There can be no uncertainty about the racial identity of the man who comes next: he belongs to the Black race, designated under the general term Nahasi.
You're dismissed.
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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quote:Originally posted by the lion: the color of the left most figure in the TOP row is not the color of the left most figure on the BOTTOM row.
wow, did you come up with that all by yourself?! LOL!
quote:you are the culprit in trying to change the focus to skin
You were the one culprit that claimed we could distinguished Egyptians and "Nubians" by skin color. Stop projecting.
Posts: 4254 | From: dasein | Registered: Jun 2009
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quote:Originally posted by anguishofbeing: Ancient Egyptian
LOL!
Sad thing is Euroclowns like Mathilda and those on Storm front think the A. Egyptians looked like that, you know Blond and Red Headed Egyptian non sense...Sad.
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Muhommed Abed: the lion, that was EXCELLENT research. I think the Afrocentrists need to own up to, what appears to have been, a deliberate fabrication and which I suspect was contrived by an Afrocentrist.
Salaaam my brother, Im so glad you are back.
I think I found Allah before the writing of the Koran.
Notice the Clothes, Pure white Robes, Notice the hand gestures?? Could that Goddess be Allah prior to Persian Mythology??( you know Allah Pu-Rah, the Moon Goddess that Muhammed delcared was the only goddess, I mean god.)
You see I have been researching the pagan roots of Islam...and to make a long story short...
I have found some peculiar stuff... it gets bad...
REAL BAD!!!
So please stick around my Arabian brother so when I reveal my research you can be one of the victims I will thrash to pieces.
Peace be upon you....MY BROTHER
Excellent work Jari Ankamun..keep it up!
Posts: 7419 | From: North America | Registered: Mar 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Jari-Ankhamun: Your post had that the Nubians were black while the Egyptians were red, Im showing you that is false.
Also, that "Nubia" is the black civilization while Egyptians are multiracial "rainbow" society, even though the picture he posts shows them distinguishing themselves from the Semites and Indo-Europeans. LOL!
Posts: 4254 | From: dasein | Registered: Jun 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Muhommed Abed: the lion, that was EXCELLENT research. I think the Afrocentrists need to own up to, what appears to have been, a deliberate fabrication and which I suspect was contrived by an Afrocentrist.
Salaaam my brother, Im so glad you are back.
I think I found Allah before the writing of the Koran.
Notice the Clothes, Pure white Robes, Notice the hand gestures?? Could that Goddess be Allah prior to Persian Mythology??( you know Allah Pu-Rah, the Moon Goddess that Muhammed delcared was the only goddess, I mean god.)
You see I have been researching the pagan roots of Islam...and to make a long story short...
I have found some peculiar stuff... it gets bad...
REAL BAD!!!
So please stick around my Arabian brother so when I reveal my research you can be one of the victims I will thrash to pieces.
Peace be upon you....MY BROTHER
Excellent work Jari Ankamun..keep it up!
The Kaabaa should be replaced with Thebes, Aka Waset the ORIGINAL Center of the Universe, The original Holies of Holies.
The Hajj should go to Wa-Set, not Mecca. As Wa-Set is where the Arabians(Who were slaves) converted and Stole the religion of the Nile Valley. The clothes, the Prayers, etc.
Abeed FACE WASET when You PRAY!!!!
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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the left glyph to the right of the figure as it appears in the book (supposedly)
top to bottom*
* R (a mouth)
* T (a tow rope)
* RMT (man on one knee)
* the three smaller marks on the bottom (multiple)
actual photo of photo of the Valley of the Kings KV11 tomb of Rameses III:
so wee see that here the vertical stack of glyphs is laid out in the photo, each separately between the figures. We can also see that on the wall the figures are in a set of four not as in the book which has them alternating.
This matter will never be resolved until we see the complete photo which would have each type of person represented four times with the glyphs between each set.
One problem that is instantly noticeable is that
TOP ROW
1
2
3
4 (partial figure)
BOTTOM ROW
5
6
7
8
you will notice that the glyph next to the Egyptian (figure #1)
Does not match the glyph
of the first figure bottom row that is figure # 5
You have two identical figures #5 and #7 in the bottom row that is why there is a debate. We should be talking about figure # 1 in the top row, this is the row of four figures that always gets chopped out. What is the glyph to the right of top row figure #1. I don't know. But obviously it is not the same glyph as the one to the right of #5, the first figure of the bottom row.
the glyphs for figure #3 top row, and the third figure of the bottom row, #7 DO match.
No issue about identitiy can be determined until there is full photo evidence of all the figures. Otherwise it's speculative scholarship.
posted
Unusual as it is the label still stands it reads Nahasu and Rmt..
And you really want me to cuss your ass out now don't you Confirming nonsense..btw ur moms said u should call her..I gave five bucks...she was arright!!
Posts: 6546 | From: japan | Registered: Feb 2009
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quote:Originally posted by anguishofbeing: The so-called "dark red" color is nothing more than the complexion of blacks. Non-Egyptian blacks ("Other Africans foreign to Egypt") have this complexion too, like the San and Kushites. Are we to then conclude from this that the San are the product of multiracial mixtures? The idea that "black race" is equivalent to the "true negro" phenotype is a myth.
examples some Arabs American Indians
etc.
Here is an Egyptian with the Redish brown skin tone:
How can this man be Mixed when he clearly has the same Skin, and Facial shape of the Egyptian Artifacts left thousands of years ago. Look at the Mummy face to the Left, notice the Shape of the Head, the Nose, the Lips even are almost dead on the same.
A N.American
Totally different.
I mean you were'nt serious were you??
Actually the above is not a good comparison. There were and in some places still are, a great many native Americans of reddish brown complexion upon the arrival of Europeans. And many native Americans of today also have mixed ancestry both from Europeans and Africans.
Case in point, the actress who played Sacajewa in Night at the Museum:
quote: Peck was born in New York City, New York of Japanese, Irish, English, and Cherokee descent.[1][2] She is a 1995 graduate of Fiorello LaGuardia High School of Music & Art and Performing Arts and a 1999 graduate of SUNY Purchase, earning a BFA in Acting. Peck was a member of TADA! Children's Theater Company from age 11 to age 14. She currently lives in New York City. Her biggest role thus far was in the 2006 movie Night at the Museum where she played Sacagawea, a role she reprised in the sequel, Night at the Museum: Battle of the Smithsonian.
Peck was photographed by Bruce Weber for French Vogue in 1995 and for the cover of L'uomo Vogue in 1997. She performed 365 Days/365 Plays by award winning playwright Suzan-Lori Parks at the Joseph Papp Public Theater.
posted
RFLOL!!! I do have a sense of humor. Oh yea, don't mind the rug burns on your mom's knees. I neglected to lay down the new plush carpeting over the weekend.
quote:Originally posted by Brada-Anansi: Unusual as it is the label still stands it reads Nahasu and Rmt..
And you really want me to cuss your ass out now don't you Confirming nonsense..btw ur moms said u should call her..I gave five bucks...she was arright!!
posted
^ Ignoring the Giganticasshole who is reduced to cheerleading people who are slightly more intelligent than him but still just as ignorant...
quote:Originally posted by the lion:
the left glyph to the right of the figure as it appears in the book (supposedly)
top to bottom*
* R (a mouth)
* T (a tow rope)
* RMT (man on one knee)
* the three smaller marks on the bottom (multiple)
actual photo of photo of the Valley of the Kings KV11 tomb of Rameses III:
so wee see that here the vertical stack of glyphs is laid out in the photo, each separately between the figures. We can also see that on the wall the figures are in a set of four not as in the book which has them alternating.
This matter will never be resolved until we see the complete photo which would have each type of person represented four times with the glyphs between each set.
One problem that is instantly noticeable is that
TOP ROW
1
2
3
4 (partial figure)
BOTTOM ROW
5
6
7
8
you will notice that the glyph next to the Egyptian (figure #1)
Does not match the glyph
of the first figure bottom row that is figure # 5
You have two identical figures #5 and #7 in the bottom row that is why there is a debate. We should be talking about figure # 1 in the top row, this is the row of four figures that always gets chopped out. What is the glyph to the right of top row figure #1. I don't know. But obviously it is not the same glyph as the one to the right of #5, the first figure of the bottom row.
the glyphs for figure #3 top row, and the third figure of the bottom row, #7 DO match.
No issue about identitiy can be determined until there is full photo evidence of all the figures. Otherwise it's speculative scholarship.
hotep
There is no speculation about it! The label of the black man reads ROMET, meaning Egyptian!!
Your premise that the ancient tomb painters made a "mistake" is absurd. The Egyptians would not make such glaring mistakes on sacred tomb pictures meant to last for eternity.
Ancient Egypt was NOT your society of modern-day northern Sudan where deranged psychos desperately try to distinguish themselves as mixed from the 'pure' Africans. And Egyptians by and large were not mixed but pure Africans unlike Egyptians today!!
Posts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Muhommed Abed: the lion, that was EXCELLENT research. I think the Afrocentrists need to own up to, what appears to have been, a deliberate fabrication and which I suspect was contrived by an Afrocentrist.
Salaaam my brother, Im so glad you are back.
I think I found Allah before the writing of the Koran.
Notice the Clothes, Pure white Robes, Notice the hand gestures?? Could that Goddess be Allah prior to Persian Mythology??( you know Allah Pu-Rah, the Moon Goddess that Muhammed delcared was the only goddess, I mean god.)
You see I have been researching the pagan roots of Islam...and to make a long story short...
I have found some peculiar stuff... it gets bad...
REAL BAD!!!
So please stick around my Arabian brother so when I reveal my research you can be one of the victims I will thrash to pieces.
Peace be upon you....MY BROTHER
LMAO
Actually Jari, Muslim rites and rituals are based on previous Arab pagan ones which like many Semitic religions are further derived from a common Afrasian origin. Egyptian of course is also derived from Afrasian which explains the similarities. Also, 'Allah' is not a goddess but a deity that is of neutral gender-- neither male nor female. The moon deity in Arab pagan belief was actually male while the Sun was female. 'Allah' was likely a creator deity that existed even before Islam's founding since there already existed names like 'Abdullah' during the time of Muhammad. You can read more about it here.
Posts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
Again, why are you calling it "Afrasian"? You already admitted it was African. And are you trying to sneak in Asia as a source for Nile valley culture? Prey tell, what part of "Asia", in your Afrasian, influenced Egyptian cultre? LOL!
Posts: 4254 | From: dasein | Registered: Jun 2009
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quote:Originally posted by anguishofbeing: Again, why are you calling it "Afrasian"? You already admitted it was African. And are you trying to sneak in Asia as a source for Nile valley culture? Prey tell, what part of "Asia", in your Afrasian, influenced Egyptian cultre? LOL!
They had trading going on since pre-dynastic times. They were also trading knowledge back and forth between Mesopotamia and Egypt. For example the Hyksos intoduced the chariot to Egypt and they got it from the Hittites.
-that makes u real mad right?
Posts: 42919 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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posted
^ I thought it was introduced by the Hyksos. Unless you have historical evidence showing otherwise.
quote:Originally posted by anguishofbeinggay: Again, why are you calling it "Afrasian"? You already admitted it was African. And are you trying to sneak in Asia as a source for Nile valley culture? Prey tell, what part of "Asia", in your Afrasian, influenced Egyptian cultre? LOL!
I'm calling it Afrasian because that is the actual NAME you moron! Of course the language phylum originates in Africa. But 'Afrasian' is a better name than Afro-asiatic unless you could think of something better. Of course you can't help but sneak in some silly assumption or lie about what I'm thinking. How about 'Erythrean' language phylum. Can you think of anything better?
Posts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
^I believe Ehret calls it "Afrasan" now (no 'I')..
@lion... My sister is a reddish-brown complexion and has no mixed ancestry as far as I know. Maybe far down the line but she clearly isn't mixed. It is also very dangerous to post artistic reproductions of tomb scenes and relying on them as accurate representations. Most Egyptian tomb scenes depict a dark-brown people with a reddish tinge. Nobody is literally red (Arabs, NAs, or otherwise)! That is such a ridiculous assumption.
You approach this debate rather sloppily. You come to your conclusions with out anything to back you up besides unscientific observations of art work. You cite Champollion's notes with out even mentioning or noticing that he got the order of precession wrong. You go on about how the glyphs from top and bottom rows representing AEs in the combined repro, don't match yet claim that #3 and #7 DO, when they clearly do not. They have different clothes and as you yourself noted, the glyphs look very different (more scribbled on the top row). You seem only to be obsessed with skin color which is very stupid.
I mean, you have dark-brown skinned people who are native to Africa that have the exact same reddish undertone. The burden of proof is on you to show that they, the ancient Egyptians that is, did not develop their skin complexions on the Africa continent, where they lived. No need to evoke Arabs (who didn't exist then and either way, it seems their Eurasian ancestors, as portrayed by Egyptians were not brown or reddish like today's Arabs, but very light--much lighter than the Egyptians) or native Americas who lived thousands and thousands of miles away. It makes much more sense to relate them to Horn, Saharan and other Nile valley Africans, who come in various shades of black (as no one s literally black). The Nehesi here depicted as pitch black are simply one variant. The east Africans of punt were portrayed identical to the Egyptians as were Nubians in the tomb of Huey. The African context here is unshakable.
In other words, you're arguing semantics, not biology. The meaning of "black". I'd say to that if AE were not black then neither are most African-Americans (including my sister). Another way to approach this would be to not label ancient populations with modern descriptors, yet acknowledge that if AE lived in the present, such descriptors would be applied to them without hesitation.... Egyptologist Marcy Ann Roth made this same point.
-------------------- mr.writer.asa@gmail.com Posts: 4021 | From: Bay Area, CA | Registered: Mar 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Sundjata: ^I believe Ehret calls it "Afrasan" now (no 'I')..
LOL So he took out the 'i', it still doesn't change what the name is still popular called. Again, unless one could come up with a better term. The Anguished-b|tch just wants start stupid sh*t again. I don't care.
quote:@lion... My sister is a reddish-brown complexion and has no mixed ancestry as far as I know. Maybe far down the line but she clearly isn't mixed. It is also very dangerous to post artistic reproductions of tomb scenes and relying on them as accurate representations. Most Egyptian tomb scenes depict a dark-brown people with a reddish tinge. Nobody is literally red (Arabs, NAs, or otherwise)! That is such a ridiculous assumption.
You approach this debate rather sloppily. You come to your conclusions with out anything to back you up besides unscientific observations of art work. You cite Champollion's notes with out even mentioning or noticing that he got the order of precession wrong. You go on about how the glyphs from top and bottom rows representing AEs in the combined repro, don't match yet claim that #3 and #7 DO, when they clearly do not. They have different clothes and as you yourself noted, the glyphs look very different (more scribbled on the top row). You seem only to be obsessed with skin color which is very stupid.
I mean, you have dark-brown skinned people who are native to Africa that have the exact same reddish undertone. The burden of proof is on you to show that they, the ancient Egyptians that is, did not develop their skin complexions on the Africa continent, where they lived. No need to evoke Arabs (who didn't exist then and either way, it seems their Eurasian ancestors, as portrayed by Egyptians were not brown or reddish like today's Arabs, but very light--much lighter than the Egyptians) or native Americas who lived thousands and thousands of miles away. It makes much more sense to relate them to Horn, Saharan and other Nile valley Africans, who come in various shades of black (as no one s literally black). The Nehesi here depicted as pitch black are simply one variant. The east Africans of punt were portrayed identical to the Egyptians as were Nubians in the tomb of Huey. The African context here is unshakable.
In other words, you're arguing semantics, not biology. The meaning of "black". I'd say to that if AE were not black then neither are most African-Americans (including my sister). Another way to approach this would be to not label ancient populations with modern descriptors, yet acknowledge that if AE lived in the present, such descriptors would be applied to them without hesitation.... Egyptologist Marcy Ann Roth made this same point.
LOL Then one could say the same for the phrase 'white'. It is all a matter of semantics as well since even many of the so-called 'white' civilizations of Mediterranean Europe were produced and inhabited by folks of darker complexions and features than your typical white-bread Euros.
Also, the lion's obsession with admixture and his Arab-wannabe state is also a contradiction considering that even 'Arabs' of Arabia are by and large a mixed people. Even many light-skinned Arabs of the Near-East of ancient African admixture so who do you consider as 'pure' Arab??
Posts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
Quit trolling, you're not even good at it like Lion. Answer: what part of "Asia" in your Afrasian, influenced Egyptian culture?
Posts: 4254 | From: dasein | Registered: Jun 2009
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posted
^ LMAO You are like the dung-beetle calling the butterfly "dirty". How was I trolling? Because I called your anguished-ass out? LOL
And again, the NAME of the language phylum is Afrasian, that doesn't meant it originated in Asia you dimwit! I told you this in another thread, but apparently your mind has a hard time letting this sink in. Oh well. Both you and the dung-beetle have a lot in common- you're both full of sh|t. Posts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Egyptian [religion] of course is also derived from Afrasian which explains the similarities.
Troll, you said the above. So again I ask, what part of "Asia" in your "Afrasian" influenced Egyptian culture?
Never claimed it *originated* in Asia, the name however points to connections with "Asia" - duh! If it has no connection to Asia why say Afrasian? Answer question above or STFU.
Posts: 4254 | From: dasein | Registered: Jun 2009
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posted
^ The only troll in here is YOU, since you are so quick to use ad-hominems when your intellctually (or lack there of) frustrated ass keeps stumbling.
Again I didn't say Egypt is Afrasian influenced but DERIVED. Because ancient Egyptian language and culture IS Afrasian.
But more importantly I never said anything about "Asian" that was YOU, you big dummy! It's not my fault that 'asian' happens to be in the name, but that's exactly what the name is! Afrasian. Christopher Ehret was the one who coined the word because he didn't like Afro-Asiatic. But because he still didn't like the the whole Asian origin misconception still being attached to the language phylum he further dropped the 'i' and calls it 'Afrasan', even though most scholars in Academia still call it Afrasian. Again, I'm not the one who invented the name. Why don't you take it up with the actual linguists and scholars, dumb-fag?! In the mean time you can kiss MY Asian ASS. Posts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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![[Wink]](wink.gif)
. Seems like Jean-Francois Champollion also believed that Europeans came from Asia. Hammer also agrees.![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
The idea that "black race" is equivalent to the "true negro" phenotype is a myth. 
Totally different.
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