According to Mike. I just noticed what Mike said here. - "ONCE THE GLAZE HAS WORN OFF, OR HAS BEEN REMOVED, THERE IS NO WAY TO SAY WHAT THE ORIGINAL LOOKED LIKE - COLOR WISE."
Have to admit I haven't seen somebody with nostrils this flared in a long time. Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
No dana you aren't a very good detective. The matching Hittite is also on Mike's website on the same page here, below:
(tip of nose cracked off) The glaze is not worn off as we can see by the dark brown pattern on the clothing and hair and the Nubian below from the same series:
what does it look like when the glaze does wear off?
here:
also from Mike's webite, another Hittite, this one without flaring nostrils (apparently there were more than one typw of Hittite) Most of the skin tone glaze is worn off except around the forehead and top of the eye. This color would be similar to this Syrian:
But not as dark as this Shasu Bedouin below:
Another similar Shasu Bedouin with the galze worn off:
The Libyan: Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
dana don't get hung up on racial taxonomies about flaring nostrils. The above are from the tomb of Rameses. So is this relief of Rameses:
Libyan Pharoahs:
Shoshenq I
Psusennes I
Osorkon II
______________________________________________________ Fulani
Libyan
Conclusion: "a composite people"
Posted by dana marniche (Member # 13149) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness: dana don't get hung up on racial taxonomies about flaring nostrils. The above are from the tomb of Rameses. So is this relief of Rameses:
Libyan Pharoahs:
Shoshenq I
Psusennes I
Osorkon II
______________________________________________________ Fulani
Libyan
Conclusion: "a composite people"
Lyin-A_ _ you are putting paintings that I have seen in other books a bit darker, including Bates - The Eastern Libyans. Don't get hung up on Euronut website photoshopping.
Unless its you doing it.
BTW - "flaring nostrils" are part of your Euronut racial taxonomy as one can see from your composite people hypothesis.lol!
Does your conclusion mean Ramses is related Kunta Kinte on one side and Tarzan on the other is that it.
And you forgot one.
Posted by dana marniche (Member # 13149) on :
[QUOTE]I guess this is why ancient Egyptians came to call early Europeans in Libya the red people.
Shardan from the "people of the Sea".
Posted by dana marniche (Member # 13149) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness: The above are from the tomb of Rameses. So is this relief of Rameses:
Conclusion: "a composite people"
No, I am afraid many near black Africans that don't have flaring nostrils are not "composites", Lying'A_ _ but have a long evolution among THEIR OWN AFRICAN people.
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by dana marniche:
No, I am afraid many near black Africans that don't have flaring nostrils are not "composites", Lying'A_ _ but have a long evolution among THEIR OWN AFRICAN people.
quote:Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-:
My contention is that the Berbers are a mixed group to begin with who arose from populations out of East Africa and the Eastern Saharah and were likely black. They obviously mixed with Europeans and Eurasian from an early date to create light skinned and white Berbers.
quote:Originally posted by alTakruri: there's evidence for European (north Mediterranean) immigrants to littoral N Africa in prehistoric times
quote:Originally posted by dana marniche:
Algeria: A Country Study, which reads: “The Berbers are a composite people
Posted by -Just Call Me Jari- (Member # 14451) on :
Yes, unlike you me and Altaruri accept historical facts. we Don't apply semantics, and double standards when it comes to information that might go against what we want to believe, as in your fighting toothe and nail to deny Egypt was an African, black African, intity or even that Rome, Greece, etc were just as Mixed and had just as many Blacks as the Africans peoples/African Empires you fight to make non African.
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
^ LOL Indeed. By the way the images of so-called 'Hittites' are actually Hattians or closely related Hurrians and not really the ethnic Hittites. Notice the kippas on their heads as well as certain features bear a resemblance to Israelites which were a mixture of original Hebrews and Hurrians.
Posted by Bettyboo (Member # 12987) on :
quote:Originally posted by dana marniche:
^Is his hair in crown-rows or dreadlocks.
Posted by Bettyboo (Member # 12987) on :
quote:Originally posted by dana marniche:
quote:Originally posted by the lioness:
Conclusion: "a composite people"
^How do they keep their teeth pearly white. Everytime I see white people in the so-called civilized world their teeth always look yellow, brown, grey, rotten, or dindgy.
Posted by Bettyboo (Member # 12987) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness:
quote:Originally posted by dana marniche:
No, I am afraid many near black Africans that don't have flaring nostrils are not "composites", Lying'A_ _ but have a long evolution among THEIR OWN AFRICAN people.
quote:Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-:
My contention is that the Berbers are a mixed group to begin with who arose from populations out of East Africa and the Eastern Saharah and were likely black. They obviously mixed with Europeans and Eurasian from an early date to create light skinned and white Berbers.
quote:Originally posted by alTakruri: there's evidence for European (north Mediterranean) immigrants to littoral N Africa in prehistoric times
quote:Originally posted by dana marniche:
Algeria: A Country Study, which reads: “The Berbers are a composite people
^Do the same men today where their hair in dreadlocks or braids? If not, why.
Posted by dana marniche (Member # 13149) on :
quote:Originally posted by Bettyboo:
quote:Originally posted by dana marniche:
^Is his hair in crown-rows or dreadlocks.
That's what I was wondering, no joke.
Posted by dana marniche (Member # 13149) on :
quote:Originally posted by Bettyboo:
quote:Originally posted by the lioness:
quote:Originally posted by dana marniche:
No, I am afraid many near black Africans that don't have flaring nostrils are not "composites", Lying'A_ _ but have a long evolution among THEIR OWN AFRICAN people.
quote:Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-:
My contention is that the Berbers are a mixed group to begin with who arose from populations out of East Africa and the Eastern Saharah and were likely black. They obviously mixed with Europeans and Eurasian from an early date to create light skinned and white Berbers.
quote:Originally posted by alTakruri: there's evidence for European (north Mediterranean) immigrants to littoral N Africa in prehistoric times
quote:Originally posted by dana marniche:
Algeria: A Country Study, which reads: “The Berbers are a composite people
^Do the same men today where their hair in dreadlocks or braids? If not, why.
This is a typical Fulani hairstyle at least in Chad and Massina, Niger up until the 20th century. I saw it on TV myself once. But of course the Fulani are quite a bit darker than the guy depicted here. I haven't seen anyone post a photograph on line yet though.
Bates also commented on these hairstyle similarities saying “the Fulbe or Fulahs of the Chad-zone sometimes braid the hair in a manner which strikingly recalls the Libyans of the monuments” (Bates, 1914, p. 136). he has some drawings in his book as I remember of the Fulani with Libyan side lock and a Berber which looks like the so-called "Hittite".
Posted by dana marniche (Member # 13149) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness:
quote:Originally posted by dana marniche:
No, I am afraid many near black Africans that don't have flaring nostrils are not "composites", Lying'A_ _ but have a long evolution among THEIR OWN AFRICAN people.
quote:Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-:
My contention is that the Berbers are a mixed group to begin with who arose from populations out of East Africa and the Eastern Saharah and were likely black. They obviously mixed with Europeans and Eurasian from an early date to create light skinned and white Berbers.
quote:Originally posted by alTakruri: there's evidence for European (north Mediterranean) immigrants to littoral N Africa in prehistoric times
quote:Originally posted by dana marniche:
Algeria: A Country Study, which reads: “The Berbers are a composite people
BTW - I just noticed on your favorite Libyan above - one of the 3 - you've posted 100 times on this site the paint is coming off his face and was originally colored gold. Hmmmmm! Now you got me wondering...
The name Berber was not applied to everyone whoever lived in North Africa. Fulani however were one of those people.
Judging from the length of the hair of Neolithic Fulani or bovids in paintings there had been some intermixture with Eurasiatics of the fairer sort or non black sort. That doesn't make white or fair-skinned Berber-speakers of today related to the ancient Afroasiatic speaking people called Berbers and simultaneously the blacks or mulatto Libyans.
There is not a single reference to a fair-skinned that came to be called Berber before the 15th century. Only the designation black, IndoMaurus or Ethiopian or Nigri.
Obviously the same ethnic group here.
Posted by dana marniche (Member # 13149) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness: The Libyan:
[IMG] UMM - Why do depictions from other sites always look so much darker than yours, LYIN-A__! Do my eyes deceive or is there some photoshopping going on.
Actually i'm growing a little concerned with your LYING A _ _ .
YOU R DEFINITELY NOT TO BE TRUSTED.
Taken directly from a site on "SEMITES" and I see some faded paint.
"One of these pics is not like the other one of these just doesn't belong..."
Supposedly the tattoos on these "Libyans" are also found on modern Woodabe attire.
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
dana, ahem, I told your ass the large sized Libyan figure is from Mike111's website
Here's some people darker than that Libyan:
^^^ not fair skinned
Below, a more yellowish skin tone, a better quality photo in terms of the skin tone, the glaze, a Hittite perhaps and also similar skin tone to the way Libyans appear in the Egyptian art, high yella type
dana, comments?
Posted by dana marniche (Member # 13149) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness:
quote:Originally posted by dana marniche:
No, I am afraid many near black Africans that don't have flaring nostrils are not "composites", Lying'A_ _ but have a long evolution among THEIR OWN AFRICAN people.
quote:Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-:
My contention is that the Berbers are a mixed group to begin with who arose from populations out of East Africa and the Eastern Saharah and were likely black. They obviously mixed with Europeans and Eurasian from an early date to create light skinned and white Berbers.
quote:Originally posted by alTakruri: there's evidence for European (north Mediterranean) immigrants to littoral N Africa in prehistoric times
quote:Originally posted by dana marniche:
Algeria: A Country Study, which reads: “The Berbers are a composite people
Your kind of falsifying of paintings must have led DeSanges to have made one of the most idiotic statements ever in the history of African studies.
"Under the 6th dynasty towards the reference was made to the Temehou. These were not a branch of the Tehenou as O. Bates surmised but a new ethnic group with paler skin and blue eyes, including a considerable number of fair-haired individuals. It has been suggested that they are IDENTICAL WITH THE GROUP C POPULATION WHO SETTLED IN NUBIA DURING THE MIDDLE EMPIRE and the beginnings of the New Empire, and this hypothesis is strenghthened by the pottery of that group and teh pottery found at Wadi Howar, 400 kilometres southwest west of the third cataract." From the article The Proto-Berbers by J. Desanges UNESCO HISTORY OF AFRICA VOL. II p. 236 OMG. I almost died laughing when I read that one.
Like I said some people just can't be trusted. LMAO.
Wish somebody would bat their dreamy blue Nubian eyes at me. lol!
Posted by dana marniche (Member # 13149) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness: dana, ahem, I told your ass the large sized Libyan figure is from Mike111's website
Here's some people darker than that Libyan:
^^^ not fair skinned
Below, a more yellowish skin tone, a better quality photo in terms of the skin tone, the glaze, a Hittite perhaps and also similar skin tone to the way Libyans appear in the Egyptian art, high yella type
dana, comments?
I think I must be very naive. U wree actually joking all of this time. YOU ARE JOKING RIGHT? That was funny.lol!
Posted by dana marniche (Member # 13149) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness: dana, ahem, I told your ass the large sized Libyan figure is from Mike111's website
Here's some people darker than that Libyan:
^^^ not fair skinned
Below, a more yellowish skin tone, a better quality photo in terms of the skin tone, the glaze, a Hittite perhaps and also similar skin tone to the way Libyans appear in the Egyptian art, high yella type
dana, comments?
I think I must be very naive. U were actually joking all of this time. Because I know that even Garrig isn't that delusional. YOU ARE JOKING RIGHT? That was funny.lol!
I must admit. Either that or u ran out of comebacks.
BTW - I don't care whose website it came from. ANd that guy at the top looks more like Novak Djokovich the tennis player except less handsome. Posted by dana marniche (Member # 13149) on :
Actually those are more like off white.lol!
Posted by dana marniche (Member # 13149) on :
I'm still laughing forgive me the snipes.
Oh I just saw one of your photos was a Kosovo Albanian. your quite a trip Your LYin'a__ . What's next. lol!
The guy with sunburnt face. I don't think he would of lasted long in Nubia do you.lol!
Wonder if his eyes are blue, for that matter where the heck are they. Darn! ouch my face hurts from laughing.
Boy maybe I am a clown after all. LOL!
Posted by dana marniche (Member # 13149) on :
[QUOTE]Originally posted by the lioness: [QB] dana, ahem, I told your ass the large sized Libyan figure is from Mike111's website
"Here's some people darker than that Libyan" oh really? ] Your Sun burnt ( I hope) Albanian fellow
Sun burnt people of the sea man LOL!
Two apparently genetically related people.LMBO
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
^^^dana, you've got it
Posted by dana marniche (Member # 13149) on :
And next time put up a supposed Hittite that's not wearing a Kufi.
Posted by assumptions prove assumptions (Member # 19570) on :
Continuing this sorry to say stupid debate is abig joke dark skin light skin???!! I know all this stupidity started after this national geographic project about human journey, agenetic journey , a global family and ancestors DNA ( mtDNA ) haplogroups etc..... , hahaha lols .can you believe the cheek swab will lead you to your family tree fuk. if those traders scientists think by such stupid lie or assumptions will bring humanity to unity or all this stupid hate will stop they are wrong
Posted by dana marniche (Member # 13149) on :
Posted by dana marniche (Member # 13149) on :
quote:Originally posted by assumptions prove assumptions: Continuing this sorry to say stupid debate is abig joke dark skin light skin???!! I know all this stupidity started after this national geographic project about human journey, agenetic journey , a global family and ancestors DNA ( mtDNA ) haplogroups etc..... , hahaha lols .can you believe the cheek swab will lead you to your family tree fuk. if those traders scientists think by such stupid lie or assumptions will bring humanity to unity or all this stupid hate will stop they are wrong
Ur right. AND, Fulani, AFricans and Africans in the Americas deserve to know about their OWN ancestors. ( "Libyans" of the period of Ramses III).
BTW - Your name is not making sense in English. You need to modify it.
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
From: Ramesses III's palace, Tell el-Yahudia Date: 20th Dynasty, around 1200 BC
Posted by Troll Patrol (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness:
^^^ not fair skinned
Below, a more yellowish skin tone, a better quality photo in terms of the skin tone, the glaze, a Hittite perhaps and also similar skin tone to the way Libyans appear in the Egyptian art, high yella type
dana, comments?
Can you explain what a Turkish-Kurdish man has to do with ancient Lybian history, or any of the other two? Because I don't really get it?
He by the way looks nothing alike.
Posted by Bettyboo (Member # 12987) on :
quote:Originally posted by dana marniche:
quote:Originally posted by Bettyboo:
quote:Originally posted by the lioness:
quote:Originally posted by dana marniche:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by dana marniche:
Algeria: A Country Study, which reads: “The Berbers are a composite people
^Do the same men today where their hair in dreadlocks or braids? If not, why.
This is a typical Fulani hairstyle at least in Chad and Massina, Niger up until the 20th century. I saw it on TV myself once. But of course the Fulani are quite a bit darker than the guy depicted here. I haven't seen anyone post a photograph on line yet though.
Bates also commented on these hairstyle similarities saying “the Fulbe or Fulahs of the Chad-zone sometimes braid the hair in a manner which strikingly recalls the Libyans of the monuments” (Bates, 1914, p. 136). he has some drawings in his book as I remember of the Fulani with Libyan side lock and a Berber which looks like the so-called "Hittite".
^Thanks for your response, but the question was for the lionness person. I read in another thread that she posted in that the people or "negroes" of west africa does not have the same hair that the tribes found in Sudan or east africa have, and then she goes on to say that the hairstyles of the true "negroes" (west african) has always been braided or is structured to be braided while the hair type of tribes outside of the true "negro" always wore their hair loose like in an afro. So why is she posting artifact wall painting of a people who she believe isn't "negro" with locks and braids which suppose to be common and culturally endowed amongst those who are only true "negro" or have the nappiest hair. If lionness thoughts are to be true, then how can she explain why a people who doesn't have nappy or the nappiest hair and isn't true "negro" wore hairstyles that are not suited or culturally endowed amongst them.
By the way, Berber just mean foreign. It can apply to anything foreign but it is mainly used to describe a foreign language, immigrant, or migrate who are not part of the natives or indigenous group or culture. Berber and Barbar mean the same thing. I know people are familiar with the word barbarian, but are confused with the word berber.
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by dana marniche: Your kind of falsifying of paintings must have led DeSanges to have made one of the most idiotic statements ever in the history of African studies.
"Under the 6th dynasty towards the reference was made to the Temehou. These were not a branch of the Tehenou as O. Bates surmised but a new ethnic group with paler skin and blue eyes, including a considerable number of fair-haired individuals. It has been suggested that they are IDENTICAL WITH THE GROUP C POPULATION WHO SETTLED IN NUBIA DURING THE MIDDLE EMPIRE and the beginnings of the New Empire, and this hypothesis is strenghthened by the pottery of that group and teh pottery found at Wadi Howar, 400 kilometres southwest west of the third cataract." From the article The Proto-Berbers by J. Desanges UNESCO HISTORY OF AFRICA VOL. II p. 236 OMG. I almost died laughing when I read that one.
Like I said some people just can't be trusted. LMAO.
Wish somebody would bat their dreamy blue Nubian eyes at me. lol! [/QB]
I don't know hat you mean by falsifying images. maybe you should speak to Mike this stuff comes from his site.
quote:Originally posted by ausar:
Tamhou is according to Egyptian records, on their 'mural of the races'; were Europeans. It is also an ethnic term: Tamh = hematite; reddish ou = people;ones "Red people"''
This is incorrect because the Kemetians never came incontact with Northern or Western Europeans. The only Europeans that the Egyptians came incontact with was the Southern Europeans whom they called Hau-Nebu. There is evidence of their first contact with these people around the 18th dyansty. Hau-Nebu refered to Greeks.
The Tamahou are related to the modern ''white'' Berbers that live in Morocco,Algeria,and the modern country of Libya. The Technou were dark-skinned Berbers that live from the Siwi to the Sahara that raided the Egyptians.
Here is some more information about them:
Meshwesh first appeared as kindred tribes of the Tehenu and Temehu, but began to play increasingly substantial roles in the later campaigns. In 1182 BCE, Egypt was under threat from an alliance between the Libyans and the Meshwesh—who possibly also coordinated an attack with the Philistines
Meshwesh are again found in the Classical writings of Herodotus, over a thousand years later. He refers to this group of peoples as the “Maxyes”, and offers the most physical description outside of the pictorial reliefs. Herodotus describes their semi-barbaric hairstyle—consisting of shaving one side of the head while leaving the other—and the fact that they paint their bodies and lay claim to Trojan heritage (Selincourt 1954: 306). He goes on to talk about the land from which they came (eastern Libya), all the while making sure to guard himself by saying that he cannot vouch for any of these statements, he is merely passing along what he himself has heard http://www.courses.psu.edu/cams/cams400w_aek11/www/meshwesh.htm
This tribe from which the land of Libya takes its name is sometimes called the Labu, Libu, or Rebu, and appears in many Egyptian texts, such as the inscriptions on the temple at Medinet Habu. The earliest of these texts is the Papyrus Anastasi II in Dynasty XVIII and appear in texts, if only rarely, up until Dynasty XXI (Gardiner 1968: 121, 122).
It is unclear for certain where the Labu originated, but they may have originated from west of the region of Libya. It is clear, however, that along with other tribes such as the Meshwesh they replaced the pervious inhabitants of Libya at some time during the New Kingdom (Redford 1992: 247) . Another theory, though, is that the Libu originated in the Balkans and were driven to migration by the Illyrians, with the Libu finally settling in Libya (Drews 1993: 58).
The Labu are characterized by a number of features when they are depicted in Egyptian reliefs, such as fair skin, red hair, and blue eyes. They also wore ornamental cloaks, had one lock of hair, and were tattooed on their arms and legs. Some of these characteristics the Labu also shared with the Meshwesh, but unlike the Meshwesh the Labu wore kilts instead of loincloths and were uncircumcised (Gardiner 1968: 122). http://www.courses.psu.edu/cams/cams400w_aek11/www/labu.htm
I never said the Berbers have a unified culture but most people like the Tuareg claim to come from regions like Libya,or Morocco. Let's just say the Imazigh[Berbers] were a hetrogenous population that was comprised of many ethnic types. Each one of these groups had a different name for themselves from the Kel Tamelsheq[Tuaregs] to Kaybele[Imazigh] and a culture that was distinct.
Which part of the Sahara do the original Berbers come from if I may ask? I understand that it was probabaly the northern portion which was around the Atlas mountains. Central and Southern Saharan populations are ancestrial to Western African people.
You should check out a book called the Eastern Libyans which describes in detail the origins of these people. Another book called the Berbers by Elizabeth Fentress. Both these books might give you some understanding.
In Neolithic Northern Africa we has Capsian,Methc-Aflou,Iber-Maursian. All these cultures existed around the coastl region and most are probabaly ancestrial to modern day Imazigh[Berbers].
My only concern are with the Tamahou and Tehennu which seem to be ethnically different people.
Posted by dana marniche (Member # 13149) on :
The name Temehou, like Aamu appear not to have been color or ethnic designations but geographical ones at a certain point in time. The original Temehou were definitely from Kharga and related to the earliest C-group Nilotes.
The name Mazouwazoua (Meshwesh) sounds like a modern Tuareg personal name but is not necessarily related to Mazikh or Amazigh.
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
^ Dana I have no idea why you waste your time and energy on this lyinass loser. You know her game is to post pictures of a few select pictures of the lightest members of a people. She knows we have shown her pictures of Libyans with complexions much darker (black). She even lies to herself when she only accepts 'black' people with complexions as dark as southern Sudanese! She is a psycho trying to play her psycho games with people.
quote:Originally posted by dana marniche: Your kind of falsifying of paintings must have led DeSanges to have made one of the most idiotic statements ever in the history of African studies.
"Under the 6th dynasty towards the reference was made to the Temehou. These were not a branch of the Tehenou as O. Bates surmised but a new ethnic group with paler skin and blue eyes, including a considerable number of fair-haired individuals. It has been suggested that they are IDENTICAL WITH THE GROUP C POPULATION WHO SETTLED IN NUBIA DURING THE MIDDLE EMPIRE and the beginnings of the New Empire, and this hypothesis is strenghthened by the pottery of that group and teh pottery found at Wadi Howar, 400 kilometres southwest west of the third cataract." From the article The Proto-Berbers by J. Desanges UNESCO HISTORY OF AFRICA VOL. II p. 236 OMG. I almost died laughing when I read that one.
Like I said some people just can't be trusted. LMAO.
Wish somebody would bat their dreamy blue Nubian eyes at me. lol!
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