posted
I'm welcoming ideas on what we should allow to be pushed on this forum, more specifically the egyptology section.
There's a trend on this site which seems to be getting worse of people dishonestly reporting and quoting studies to fit their narrative. In some cases these studies are completely irrelevant to the proposal of the poster and in most cases the data of these papers suggest the entire opposite of the posters proposal.
Now as most of us are aware, the history of African related studies are complex in a way where we HAVE to look at data differently in order to have a deeper understanding of what's going on. Stemming from racism and the like, we have a lot of concepts which are admittedly unscientific permeating through most popular scientific outlets. So much so that it's very difficult to trust the conclusions of any researcher without a thorough objective look at a collection of data and history surrounding said data.
We need to find that thin line between cynical obfuscation and critical investigation. And make sure that we just aren't censoring findings and or observations that go against the status quo. So I'm opening this thread to allow posters to express their thoughts on what should and shouldn't be allowed to be posted. As well as suggestions on how we should go about cleaning things up here.
Poll Information
This poll contains 1 question(s). 8 user(s) have voted. You may not view the results of this poll without voting.
quote:Originally posted by Tukuler: I say expose the illogic and misquoting. If successful at doing that then simply delete any post from a poster continuing with illogic misquoting false referencing etc.
That means moderators will have to step up and actually monitor and moderate and not rely on whistle blowing or clique hive minding.
This forum has three absentee moderators. Deshret has one moderator who walks the walk.
Let's see how long it takes yall to handle White Nord.
I don't think you understand the issue. The problem is I don't wan't to be accused of censoring or silencing someone who goes against my ideals. I'm less likely to remove comments I express disagreement with as whether or not either parties has a point should be determined by others as they read comments objectively.
There has been plenty of times where I'm vocal about misinformation being spread, none of those times would have been appropriate for me to remove content. Now we're at a point where people are throwing things at the wall hoping it'll fit their agenda, but the damage is done whether or not they've been called out. It perpetuates the idea that everyone on this site as well as anywhere else similar have the same fringe mentality.
I don't have banning power, so recurring trolls like White Nord has to be dealt with by someone else. Please understand what I'm proposing here.
Posts: 1815 | From: New York | Registered: Jul 2016
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quote:Originally posted by Tukuler: What am I a simpleton? I don't understand the issue? Like I didn't face 'em myself & w/o Sami's backing and no one absolutely no one to ban ppl for me? Why ask if you ain't tryin ta hear? Don't nobody know nuthin bout nuthin but you right? Please delete my post and erase my vote thank you. Like it's my fault ES staff doesn't work as a team.
What is all this extra shit for? why are you in your feelings?
Were you not saying that the fault lies in the lack of moderation? Help me understand your point.
It read to me like you said: expose/respond to misinformation... then proceed to delete posts from the culprit.
I'm saying that that is a bad look, regardless of your gripes with moderation. I could have been deleting posts but that goes against the integrity of the forum. Which is the purpose of this topic.
Posts: 1815 | From: New York | Registered: Jul 2016
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posted
Yeah but Clyde has been doing the same for years without any consequence. Presenting posts about indigenous Mexicans being "Mixed Blood" and Mayan being Mande..smh
At least XXY gets called out
quote:Originally posted by One Third African: I say we should regulate repeat offenders like xxyman. I'm sick of their nonsense.
Posts: 8872 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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posted
I think the Mods are doing a credible job in slamming down spam, and weeding out racist trolls in their activities. However "White Nord" slipping thru the cracks is troubling, for he is a troll caught out on other forums as a serial impersonator of forum members, including several ES members. If its a case of the trolls, I would say remove their posts. One expose on KiwiFarms.net for example fingers the serial impersonator- he has Brandon Pilcher, Swenet/Carlos Coke etc etc in the mix as he slanders and falsifies Egyptsearch on "Rational wiki." Who knows where else, and with what impersonated accounts this is being done?
But regular posters are different. The thread in question advanced a claim that was questioned by a few people, including myself. Where it went wrong was in the personal name-calling and emotionalism, in response to those challenges, with Tukler bearing the brunt of the outburst. I would have to agree with Tukler and say expose the logic and misquoting. There are folks here with access to university accounts and all the pdfs who can quickly counter anything dubious. If there is name-calling, trolling, flame outbursts etc, or spamming, then those should be dealt with on that basis.
-------------------- Note: I am not an "Egyptologist" as claimed by some still bitter, defeated, trolls creating fake profiles and posts elsewhere. Hapless losers, you still fail. My output of hard data debunking racist nonsense has actually INCREASED since you began.. Posts: 5939 | From: The Hammer | Registered: Aug 2008
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posted
Oh the Mods have done an excellent Job, and Im all for more regulations on misrepresentation...but my question is, where does the buck end? Folks will call out Xxy and yeah, he's annoying AF but I think dude seriously thinks he's actually right and the researchers he quotes are wrong...like with his stupid ass "Fake Corona One" thread(such a Dumbass) he thinks he's some sleuth living in a conspiracy world.
I would'nt ban the dude, I can't stand him but I would'nt ban or censor him...but thats just my American sensibilities...IDK
Posts: 8872 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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posted
I've decided that we should be a lot harder on cranks. Not only are they obnoxious, but dealing with the bullshit they spew over and over again gets repetitive and tiresome. Not to mention, it's difficult to have a civil, educational conversation when they keep derailing it. All they do is set us back.
posted
The forum has spoken... As of now Clyde Winters is on the watchlist. Any off-topic self promoting posts with no solid ground in reality made by him will be removed. Until another archaeologist/scientist steps forth and support his radical Kushite theories all posts regarding those will be removed without warning.
Repeated offenses will lead to potential bans
Posts: 1815 | From: New York | Registered: Jul 2016
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posted
wikipedia says "In Ancient Egypt, the term "Hyksos " (ḥḳꜣ-ḫꜣswt) was also used to refer to various Nubian and especially Asiatic rulers both before and after the Fifteenth Dynasty." So I think that Clyde's view is just radical to the extent he thinks it's Nubian only. I don't have a probably with that, just that instead of linking URLs to the numerous threads an post he's made on it, he puts the full large blocks of texts and graphics up over and over again and he does this with multiple topic, Olmecs etc etc The same bogs posts he has been posting for years where he could instead be linking them and then perhaps only quotes a small portion if
Posts: 43388 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: ... I think that Clyde's view is just radical to the extent he thinks it's Nubian only.
.
The good Dr claims xAswt = kAS in each and every instance. That makes every place determined by xAst Kush. In other words everplace except Egypt from Cataract One to Med Sea is Kush.
Deep. Um huh yeah bruthuh a luta continua on that.
Anyone can replicate xAst/xAswt means land/lands by simply picking up a ha dang dictionary. Yet we see ESers gobble up the gobbledeegook like it's Gospel. Cult of Personality overrides dictionaries, even direct words of a pharaoh lamenting sharing Egypt with an Aamu and a Nehesi.
Is it me or have we moved into a decade where Africana studies is just a prop for Blackity Black Black without regard to even a modicum of validity?
quote:Originally posted by Tukuler: That's that Hindu Kush -- that Hindu Killer!
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: List of groups Dr. Winters says were Kushites:
Dravidians Hyksos Sumerians Scythians Anatolians
. Stop making stuff up. Dr. Liny Srinivasan, in Desi and Crete to Egypt: Missing links of the Rigveda, in these books Dr. Liny explains ancient Indian Literature: Pali, Rigveda and Purana text, are about the Nile Valley not Hindu-Kush.
The research of Dr. Liny Srinivasan support my claim that Dravidians came from the Nile Valley., it the books cited above and numerous articles.
.
.
-------------------- C. A. Winters Posts: 13012 | From: Chicago | Registered: Jan 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Elmaestro: The forum has spoken... As of now Clyde Winters is on the watchlist. Any off-topic self promoting posts with no solid ground in reality made by him will be removed. Until another archaeologist/scientist steps forth and support his radical Kushite theories all posts regarding those will be removed without warning.
Repeated offenses will lead to potential bans
.
Dr. Liny Srinivasan, in Desi ,and Crete to Egypt: Missing links of the Rigveda ,explains that ancient Indian Literature: Pali, Rigveda and Purana text, are about the Nile Valley not Hindu-Kush. Dr. Srinivasan proved that these Dravidians who now live in India, based on Rigveda and etc., identified themselves as Kushites.
The research of Dr. Liny Srinivasan support my claim that Dravidians came from the Nile Valley., in the books cited above and numerous articles. Many of her articles can be found on Academia Edu web page .
Rawlinson claimed that the Anatolians/Scythians/Anatolians were Kushites> Ethiopians
. Dr. Liny Srinivasan, in Desi ,and Crete to Egypt: Missing links of the Rigveda ,explained that ancient Indian Literature: Pali, Rigveda and Purana text, are about the Nile Valley not Hindu-Kush. Liny Srinivasan claim that Dravidians came from the Nile Valley. and identified themselves as Kushites, in the books cited above and numerous articles. Many of her articles can be found on Academia Edu web page
-------------------- C. A. Winters Posts: 13012 | From: Chicago | Registered: Jan 2006
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Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
Aww shush up, fabricator trying to project his MO: making stuff up. He'd be filthy rich if he started a comic book company except he can't keep his twisted 'history' straight with his channeling of Ms Homburger's position of some 80-106 yrs ago. Hindu Kush is an Afghanistan mountain range so named, it's said, because its frigid climate supposedly killed many a Hindu forced to cross it by Muslims per Iranian sources as allegedly related by ibn Battuta.
In any event the name is not ancient. Caucasus Indicus is one recorded ancient name.
quote:The earliest known use of this name "Hindu Kush" was by the famous Arab traveller, Ibn Battta c. 1334, who wrote: "Another reason for our halt was fear of the snow, for on the road there is a mountain called Hindu kush, which means "Slayer of Indians," because the slave boys and girls who are brought from India die there in large numbers as a result of the extreme cold and the quantity of snow."
However, this interpretation is usually considered to be only a "folk etymology." Numerous possibilities for its origin have been put forward, including:
that the name is a corruption of "Caucasus Indicus."
In modern Persian, the word "Kush" is derived from the verb Kushtan - to defeat, kill, or subdue. This could be interpreted as a memorial to the Indian captives who perished in the mountains while being transported to Central Asian slave markets.
that the name refers to the last great 'killer' mountains to cross when moving between the Afghan plateau and the Indian subcontinent, named after the toll it took on anyone crossing them;
that the name is a corruption of Hindu Koh, from the (modern) Persian word Kuh, meaning mountain. Rennell, writing in 1793, refers to the range as the "Hindoo-Kho or Hindoo-Kush";
that the name means Mountains of India or Mountains of the Indus in some of the Iranian languages that are still spoken in the region; that furthermore, many peaks, mountains, and related places in the region have "Kosh" or "Kush" in their names.
that the name is a posited Avestan appellation meaning "water mountains."
Hindu Kush aka Hindi Kush
Hindu Kush is a pure indica strain named after the mountain range stretching 500 miles between Pakistan and Afghanistan where it originated. The harsh climate of its homeland has conditioned this strain to express a thick, protective coat of crystal trichomes cherished by hash makers worldwide. With a subtle sweet and earthy sandalwood aroma, Hindu Kush induces a deep sense of calm that helps bring relief to those suffering pain, nausea, and stress disorders.
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters:
quote:Originally posted by Tukuler: That's that Hindu Kush -- that Hindu Killer!
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: List of groups Dr. Winters says were Kushites:
Dravidians Hyksos Sumerians Scythians Anatolians
. Stop making stuff up. Dr. Liny Srinivasan, in Desi and Crete to Egypt: Missing links of the Rigveda, in these books Dr. Liny explains ancient Indian Literature: Pali, Rigveda and Purana text, are about the Nile Valley not Hindu-Kush.
The research of Dr. Liny Srinivasan support my claim that Dravidians came from the Nile Valley., it the books cited above and numerous articles.
posted
My 2 cents is don't throw Dr. Winters out with the bathwater... eat the meat throw out the bones..
If Dr. Winters posts are redundant or infringe on someone else's posts or threads.. he should link his work instead of copy and pasting...
Instead of banning him disprove his work... there is nothing wrong with healthy debate and be careful in censoring posters it borders on a ban of freedom of speech..
The Dr. has good resources even if "some" of his conclusions maybe considered fringe theory..
From what I can tell the arguments are like apples and oranges..
Someone should ask "what" or "whom" is the Dr. Defining as "KUSHITE"
What does that mean and in what period?
The Hyksos Rule in Egypt The Journal of Egyptian Archaeology The Journal of Egyptian Archaeology Vol. 37 (Dec., 1951), pp. 53-71 (19 pages) Published by: Sage Publications, Inc. Previous Item | Next Item https://doi.org/10.2307/3855157 Stable URL
-------------------- It's not my burden to disabuse the ignorant of their wrong opinions Posts: 2731 | From: New York | Registered: Jun 2015
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quote:Originally posted by Yatunde Lisa: My 2 cents is don't throw Dr. Winters out with the bathwater... eat the meat throw out the bones..
If Dr. Winters posts are redundant or infringe on someone else's posts or threads.. he should link his work instead of copy and pasting...
Instead of banning him disprove his work... there is nothing wrong with healthy debate and be careful in censoring posters it borders on a ban of freedom of speech..
The Dr. has good resources even if "some" of his conclusions maybe considered fringe theory..
From what I can tell the arguments are like apples and oranges..
Someone should ask "what" or "whom" is the Dr. Defining as "KUSHITE"
What does that mean and in what period?
. I am calling people Kushites who self-identified themselves as Kushites, and were reported as having said identities by other researchers on in textual material.
My theories are only considered to be "fringe" by the White Supremacist and their lackeys. My research is supported by W.E.B. DuBois, Anta Diop, John Jackson, J.A. Rogers. D. Dundee. No one has falsified the work of these heroes of Afrocentric ancient history research.
Something you might want to think about is if researchers have not falsified their research, who can falsify my research when I am citing contemporary sources.
-------------------- C. A. Winters Posts: 13012 | From: Chicago | Registered: Jan 2006
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posted
Personally I enjoy reading your stuff... but hey.. I am willing to entertain all theories until I have read enough to either dismiss or confirm it myself...
Maybe being sensitive to others in the forum would be helpful. Link your videos, published books or website instead of copying and pasting work most that frequent this website have seen before..
The heroes of afrocentric research did better research than many who are willing to swallow curated DNA studies whole hog.. But DNA has to be incorporated into our new sphere of knowledge... I think everyone should go back and read. Diop, Dubois, Rogers and Dundee..
Much of the afrocentric blackety black myths out there today are a mythologizing of their earlier work... much like the old phone game... I tell you and you tell someone else until the story does not even resemble the original..
Do I believe there where Kushites in Greece? Yes but where all Greeks Kushites? No
Where there Kushites in Elam? Yes but was everyone in the Euphrates Valley Kushites? No
Just like Asiatics could rule in lower Egypt... Kushites could have ruled in the near east... it's possible..
We need clarification on "kushites" From when, where, how?
-------------------- It's not my burden to disabuse the ignorant of their wrong opinions Posts: 2731 | From: New York | Registered: Jun 2015
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Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
After JA Rogers, JG Jackson, and EL Jones the below was an early influence on independent Greece researches. There comes a time a worthy student develops on their own away from all teachers, as Dr Ben told me. A worthy teacher beams when former students shine their own light.
From the old rare Francophone publication Afrique Histoire Dr Winters served on their U.S. version advisory board.
Without this would the study really have advanced much past Snowden?
Another publication that likewise was out of range for most Blacks who didn't frequent places like the Oshogbo merchant houses or Liberation bookshops or the conscious Africana street vendors that had Dr Winters on staff was the African Mwalimu, a Swahili oriented publication.
Without EL Jones this would've been relegated to JA Rogers, DD Houston, and GW Parker students only
posted
^^^^ Lioness you should read the JSTOR article I linked..
Hyskos was a term that existed 200 to 300 years before any "asiatic" ever showed up..
So Hyskos at one point where the Medja/Kushites form the SUDAN.
Later.. asiatics adopted Hyskos as an honary title..
READING IS FUNDAMENTAL
and you must consider the confederation of Kush & the Levant... maybe the Asiatics adopted it to show allegiance to the original Kushites..
-------------------- It's not my burden to disabuse the ignorant of their wrong opinions Posts: 2731 | From: New York | Registered: Jun 2015
| IP: Logged |
The Nubian ibex, gazelles and donkey are all found in northeast Africa. Why would they bring something that is already there? That's just weird.
Also, who came up with the term Asiatics? I hardly believe it was the ancient people of the region. But by that logic they consistently should call Egyptians Africans, which is the only insistence that has been consist.
quote: The scene also depicts several animals—two donkeys, an ibex, and a gazelle. The donkeys carry various bundles and other items, including a spear and two objects that have often been (mis)-identified as bellows associated with metalworking.
quote:Originally posted by Tukuler: [...] Hindu Kush is an Afghanistan mountain range so named, it's said, because its frigid temperature supposedly killed many a Hindu forced to cross it by Muslims per Iranian sources as allegedly related by ibn Battuta.
In any event the name is not ancient. Caucasus Indicus is one recorded ancient name.
quote:The earliest known use of this name "Hindu Kush" was by the famous Arab traveller, Ibn Battta c. 1334, who wrote: "Another reason for our halt was fear of the snow, for on the road there is a mountain called Hindu kush, which means "Slayer of Indians," because the slave boys and girls who are brought from India die there in large numbers as a result of the extreme cold and the quantity of snow."
However, this interpretation is usually considered to be only a "folk etymology." Numerous possibilities for its origin have been put forward, including:
that the name is a corruption of "Caucasus Indicus."
In modern Persian, the word "Kush" is derived from the verb Kushtan - to defeat, kill, or subdue. This could be interpreted as a memorial to the Indian captives who perished in the mountains while being transported to Central Asian slave markets.
that the name refers to the last great 'killer' mountains to cross when moving between the Afghan plateau and the Indian subcontinent, named after the toll it took on anyone crossing them;
that the name is a corruption of Hindu Koh, from the (modern) Persian word Kuh, meaning mountain. Rennell, writing in 1793, refers to the range as the "Hindoo-Kho or Hindoo-Kush";
that the name means Mountains of India or Mountains of the Indus in some of the Iranian languages that are still spoken in the region; that furthermore, many peaks, mountains, and related places in the region have "Kosh" or "Kush" in their names.
that the name is a posited Avestan appellation meaning "water mountains."
Hindu Kush aka Hindi Kush
Hindu Kush is a pure indica strain named after the mountain range stretching 500 miles between Pakistan and Afghanistan where it originated. The harsh climate of its homeland has conditioned this strain to express a thick, protective coat of crystal trichomes cherished by hash makers worldwide. With a subtle sweet and earthy sandalwood aroma, Hindu Kush induces a deep sense of calm that helps bring relief to those suffering pain, nausea, and stress disorders.
Never knew this about the Hindu Kush thing.
This is very important information, especially because it has been used a lot for different doctrines.
Posts: 22252 | From: Omni | Registered: Nov 2010
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Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
News to me in my cut&paste quote is ibn Battuta. An African globetrotter who surely knew about Kush son of Hham yet drew no analogies when explaining the meaning of Hindu Kush.
How bout that? This African scholar reaching across the ages to cap our heads on something popularlized by black scholars before the age of old or rare resources lickety split at your fingertips while sitting on your deck burning leaves sippin rum, not having to track shih down via library after library, university libraries, special collections, interlibrary loan (if lucky), select shops of certain booksellers/antiquarians, and painful hand translation of languages known and unknown in scripts not Indo-Aryan.
=-=-=
I wouldn't wanna hafta haul all that stuff slung over my shoulders. Donkey was widespread as a beast of burden. Check Tanakh for notices on the humble ass. Can't say about mules, their hybrid engendering may go against 'genetic misplacement' laws for the Tribes and People of Israel. Hmm, a MANSION OF THE GODS topic?
Also, remember those processions to the viceroys of Kush and 'Retjenu' include similar animal gifts/tribue/taxes/fees as those tendered by the petty sheikh Ibsha's patri-clan.
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