Premiered Mar 18, 2023 The Great DNA Hoax: The European heist of Ancient Egypt (Documentary) #kemet The Kings Monologue 18,016 views total time 15:10
excerpts from video:
welcome to the king's monologue in this short documentary we'll be taking a deep dive into the claims made by a heavily referenced article that was published in nature Communications (Ancient Egyptian mummy genomes suggest an increase of Sub-Saharan African ancestry in post-Roman periods Verena J. Schuenemann,2017) (Abusir El Meleq) it claims that ancient Egyptian ancestry is largely non-African I mean this might be one of the biggest lies ever told.
the German Research Foundation claimed that ancient Egyptians shared more ancestry with near easterners than present-day Egyptians and Africans the study took genetic samples from pre-Ptolemaic Ptolemaic and Roman era mummies suggesting there is genetic continuity between the ancient Egyptians and modern Eastern Mediterraneans, the Turkish and modern near Eastern populations to the uninformed general public the study seemed conclusive however as is too often the case in Egyptology not all was as it seemed thank you the study failed to reference that the ethnicity of the mummies irrefutably biased the results of the test
An article from UCL confirms this it states in the Ptolemaic period the Fayum was one of the main regions where Greek settled Encyclopedia Britannica in support of this rights Greek settlers were brought to the area creating prosperous Hellenistic communities historical researcher Joanna Wllimovska states that statistical analysis revealed that Greek settlers constituted about 30 of the total population of the Fayum in the mid-third century BC bear in mind this constitutes the very start of the Ptolemaic era and thus would have significantly risen over time. ancient Origins writes it is known that the Fayum population exploded During the Ptolemaic period by the settling of numerous Greek veteran soldiers there the District of Fame was a known immigration settlement since the second intermediary period under Hyksos rule and became the most significant settlement for Greek immigrants during the Ptolemy period
Egyptian populations we can helpfully consider this claim to be corroborated with genetic evidence modern Egyptians are in fact largely Greek and Levantine not in origin but as a result of admixture from foreign settlers I must caveat that this does not exclude them from being direct descendants of the ancient Egyptians this is not a claim I support as cultural diffusion is a much more likely scenario
in February 2010 a research team led by Dr hawas conducted an autosomal DNA analysis of several New Kingdom mummies in an effort to discover the ancestry and pathology of King Tutankhamun's family the mummies included Tut, Thuya Amenhotep III Yuya other Amarana mummies and some mummies from the Ramesside Dynasty in the pharaonic lineage autosomal profiling of eight pairs of Str were used to obtain this data and published The Reason autosomal Str profiling is a much more powerful tool in Cross analysis against phenotype is because race and phenotype quite often have a more direct correlation with Biology immunity and other physiological traits determined by autosomal DNA analysis the only DNA analysis that takes the entire genome into consideration the is why autosomal in February 2010 the results were definite and conclusive all of the pharaonic mummies clustered incontrovertibly close to Modern sub-Saharan Africans at a rate of 70 to 94 genetic Affinity whereas modern Eurasian's genetic Affinity was just 5 to 31 percent and modern 0 to 1.5 percent on average the pharaonic mummies were 10 to 20 times more likely to be related to Modern Continental Africans than modern near Eastern or Eurasian populations showing the closest Affinity by some degree to Southern Africans followed by Africans of the Great Lakes region followed by West Africans so in spite of the current phenotype of modern Egyptians it seems conclusive that their relation to the ancient Egyptian population lies in their plus 20 genetic association with Continental Africa so much for the slavery Spike rather than be ashamed of this modern Egyptians should be proud of the direct lineage that they have retained with their ancient Egyptian forebears in spite of the multiple occupations of the land
posted
Black folk steadily getting played with feelgoodism fancy editing.
STR results from one set of mummies do not trump SNP results from a totally separate unrelated group of mummies. New studies putting a foot in that ass while we regurgitate 15 year old data with no new analysis. Rude Awakenings coming. Prepare.
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quote:Compared with Europe, palaeogenetics in Africa is poorly studied, in part because DNA degrades faster in tropical and dry environments. Chapter 4 aims to unveil population movements in Egypt and Sudan from the Neolithic onward. DNA was extracted from 94 samples from Armant (Egypt), Nuerat (Egypt) and Ghaba (Sudan) dated from the Early Neolithic to the historic period. Genome-wide data were successfully recovered from one sample from Nuerat sequenced to 0.22X coverage, dated to 2,868-2,492 cal BCE (95.4% probability) - consistent with the 3rd-4th Dynasties of the Old Kingdom. Allele frequency-based analyses (PCA, ADMIXTURE, f-statistics, qpAdm) show a strong genetic affinity of this sample to Levantine Natufians. Compared with genomes dated from the end of the Dynastic period (Third Intermediate Period) and present-day Egyptians, the Nuerat sample did not carry the Caucasus Hunter-Gatherer genetic component that started to spread across West Asia ~4,000 years ago and is widely spread in present-day populations. The presence of this component in Egypt is likely associated with admixture between local Egyptian populations and Bronze Age-related populations from West Asia. This admixture pattern might result from the dominance of Lower Egypt by Canaanite (Levantine) rulers during the Second Intermediate Period (ca. 1,650-1,550 BCE).
I don't understand what is problematic about this Beyoku? Seems to me the data suggests that the Lower Egyptians were populated by Natufian related peoples?
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...in February 2010 a research team led by Dr Hawas conducted an autosomal DNA analysis of several New Kingdom mummies in an effort to discover the ancestry and pathology of King Tutankhamun's family the mummies included Tut, Thuya Amenhotep III, yuya other Amarna mummies and some mummies from the Ramasside Dynasty in the pharaonic lineage autosomal profiling of eight pairs of STR were used to obtain this data and published The Reason autosomal STR profiling is a much more powerful tool in Cross analysis against phenotype is because race and phenotype quite often have a more direct correlation with Biology immunity and other physiological traits determined by autosomal DNA analysis the only DNA analysis that takes the entire genome into consideration the is why autosomal STR profiling is used exclusively as the method for forensic and medical analyzes by contrast why DNA paternal and mitochondrial DNA maternal analyzes can only Trace ancestral links to a single historical ancestor but are almost useless in finding the level of relation between two individuals however autosomal DNA analysis takes the entire genome into account and so can cluster relation probabilities via matching algorithms against STR profile databases put simply certain groups will often form traits and patterns that permeate across the ethnicity and culture these are reflected in the genome think about allergies and Immunity as simple examples in 2014 independent researchers utilized the matching algorithms of existing STR databases to conduct an analyzes on the autosomal DNA results published by Dr Hawass in February 2010 the results were definite and conclusive all of the pharaonic mummies clustered incontrovertibly close to Modern sub-Saharan Africans at a rate of 70 to 94 genetic Affinity whereas modern eurasian's genetic Affinity was just 5 to 31 percent and modern 0 to 1.5 percent on average the pharaonic mummies were 10 to 20 times more likely to be related to Modern Continental Africans than modern near Eastern or Eurasian populations showing the closest Affinity by some degree to Southern Africans followed by Africans of the Great Lakes region followed by West Africans so in spite of the current phenotype of modern Egyptians it seems conclusive that their relation to the ancient Egyptian population lies in their plus 20 genetic association with Continental Africa so much for the slavery Spike rather than be ashamed of this modern Egyptians should be proud of the direct lineage that they have retained with their ancient Egyptian forebears in spite of the multiple occupations of the land this DNA links us together as a single continent and provides the evidence that Kemet was an African achievement and not the result of some foreign incursion and their ancestors were in fact the same as other native Continental Africans just as they depicted themselves the modern North Egyptian phenotype is nothing more than the result of cultural diffusion a natural occurrence for a nation with Egypt's foreign history after the fall of the New Kingdom modern Egyptians like other North Africans other cousins of modern Continental Africans and this fact is being suppressed in an attempt to pit us against each other whilst Europeans claim The Spoils of our histories disingenuous European research groups like the German Research Foundation whose Origins date back to Hyper-Aryanism in Germany are attempting to steal African history
quote:Compared with Europe, palaeogenetics in Africa is poorly studied, in part because DNA degrades faster in tropical and dry environments. Chapter 4 aims to unveil population movements in Egypt and Sudan from the Neolithic onward. DNA was extracted from 94 samples from Armant (Egypt), Nuerat (Egypt) and Ghaba (Sudan) dated from the Early Neolithic to the historic period. Genome-wide data were successfully recovered from one sample from Nuerat sequenced to 0.22X coverage, dated to 2,868-2,492 cal BCE (95.4% probability) - consistent with the 3rd-4th Dynasties of the Old Kingdom. Allele frequency-based analyses (PCA, ADMIXTURE, f-statistics, qpAdm) show a strong genetic affinity of this sample to Levantine Natufians. Compared with genomes dated from the end of the Dynastic period (Third Intermediate Period) and present-day Egyptians, the Nuerat sample did not carry the Caucasus Hunter-Gatherer genetic component that started to spread across West Asia ~4,000 years ago and is widely spread in present-day populations. The presence of this component in Egypt is likely associated with admixture between local Egyptian populations and Bronze Age-related populations from West Asia. This admixture pattern might result from the dominance of Lower Egypt by Canaanite (Levantine) rulers during the Second Intermediate Period (ca. 1,650-1,550 BCE).
I don't understand what is problematic about this Beyoku? Seems to me the data suggests that the Lower Egyptians were populated by Natufian related peoples?
It seems to me that, without more prehistoric samples from Northeastern Africa, "Natufian" is our best model for indigenous pre-OOA African ancestry in the region. Hence why you see a lot of Northeast African samples like Nubians and the East African Pastoral Neolithic getting modeled as Natufian/Dinka mixes.
What I find strange is that this abstract doesn't mention either a presence or absence of "sub-Saharan" ancestry in the Nuerat sample (Nuerat is in Middle Egypt a little north of Beni Hasan, BTW). I do expect to find a little Dinka- or Mota-like ancestry in there, maybe somewhere on the spectrum between the Abusir el-Meleq and the Kadruka samples, but we will have to wait until the results are published to verify or falsify my hunch.
posted
By nature of the game the Nuerat Sample will have non-negligable SSA of some-sort. The CHG component being absent is a tell. However, what I've grown to notice is that a "Natufian" component doesn't really make sense. I said about 5 years ago that the reason why Natufian ancestry is preferred in a lot of models is because of the fact that they're a good proxy in the absence of North African aDNA. What I didn't call into attention was simply reference bias due to the Natufians being relatively low-coverage Psuedo-Haploid source population. There's actually no academic consensus on the make-up of their genetic profile. Some studies have them as partially Taforalt, Some as partially Ancient East African, WHG... etc. I think it's more insightful to use a combination of CHG/Dzudzuana, Pinarbasi and Taforalt to try to model populations in adjacent to models relying on the Natufian stand in. Therefore we'll get resolution on both the Novel samples and Natufians.
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quote:Originally posted by Elmaestro: I think it's more insightful to use a combination of CHG/Dzudzuana, Pinarbasi and Taforalt to try to model populations in adjacent to models relying on the Natufian stand in. Therefore we'll get resolution on both the Novel samples and Natufians.
Does Dzudzuana count as CHG? Weren't they a Paleolithic people living in the Caucasus, after all?
EDIT: NM, checked the Lazaridis pre-print on Dzudzuana and saw that he distinguished them from later CHG, saying the former were more similar to Anatolian populations.
quote:Compared with Europe, palaeogenetics in Africa is poorly studied, in part because DNA degrades faster in tropical and dry environments. Chapter 4 aims to unveil population movements in Egypt and Sudan from the Neolithic onward. DNA was extracted from 94 samples from Armant (Egypt), Nuerat (Egypt) and Ghaba (Sudan) dated from the Early Neolithic to the historic period. Genome-wide data were successfully recovered from one sample from Nuerat sequenced to 0.22X coverage, dated to 2,868-2,492 cal BCE (95.4% probability) - consistent with the 3rd-4th Dynasties of the Old Kingdom. Allele frequency-based analyses (PCA, ADMIXTURE, f-statistics, qpAdm) show a strong genetic affinity of this sample to Levantine Natufians. Compared with genomes dated from the end of the Dynastic period (Third Intermediate Period) and present-day Egyptians, the Nuerat sample did not carry the Caucasus Hunter-Gatherer genetic component that started to spread across West Asia ~4,000 years ago and is widely spread in present-day populations. The presence of this component in Egypt is likely associated with admixture between local Egyptian populations and Bronze Age-related populations from West Asia. This admixture pattern might result from the dominance of Lower Egypt by Canaanite (Levantine) rulers during the Second Intermediate Period (ca. 1,650-1,550 BCE).
I don't understand what is problematic about this Beyoku? Seems to me the data suggests that the Lower Egyptians were populated by Natufian related peoples?
It seems to me that, without more prehistoric samples from Northeastern Africa, "Natufian" is our best model for indigenous pre-OOA African ancestry in the region. Hence why you see a lot of Northeast African samples like Nubians and the East African Pastoral Neolithic getting modeled as Natufian/Dinka mixes.
What I find strange is that this abstract doesn't mention either a presence or absence of "sub-Saharan" ancestry in the Nuerat sample (Nuerat is in Middle Egypt a little north of Beni Hasan, BTW). I do expect to find a little Dinka- or Mota-like ancestry in there, maybe somewhere on the spectrum between the Abusir el-Meleq and the Kadruka samples, but we will have to wait until the results are published to verify or falsify my hunch.
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Reconstructing past human genetic variation with ancient DNA: case studies from ancient Egypt and medieval Europe
Morez, A (2023) Reconstructing past human genetic variation with ancient DNA: case studies from ancient Egypt and medieval Europe. Doctoral thesis,
Liverpool John Moores University.
Abstract
....Chapter 4 aims to unveil population movements in Egypt and Sudan from the Neolithic onward. DNA was extracted from
94 samples from
ARMANT (Egypt),
NUERAT (Egypt)
and Ghaba (Sudan)
dated from the Early Neolithic to the historic period. Genome-wide data were successfully recovered from one sample from Nuerat sequenced to 0.22X coverage, dated to 2,868-2,492 cal BCE (95.4% probability) - consistent with the 3rd-4th Dynasties of the Old Kingdom. Allele frequency-based analyses (PCA, ADMIXTURE, f-statistics, qpAdm) show a strong genetic affinity of this sample to Levantine Natufians.
I'm posting some related data here but not from the above thesis
If I am not mistaken the total number of Natufians DNA test report at this point in time = 5 individuals as follows
.
.
NUERAT
Tombs of the II an IV dynasties near Nuerat
p 16
Historical Features. The earliest features are those furthest to the north, opposite to Shatarah , just above a hamlet known as Nuerat. Here a number of small rock- tombs are ranged along the face of the cliff. One row of these, opening to the west, is visible from the river, although separated by a sweep of sand of considerable width. The earliest of them, however, were found. hidden away in the side of a little ravine. From the archaic character of the interments found within and near to these, it is probable that they date back to the IIIrd Dynasty or even earlier. The other groups, just to the north, to judge by their characteristics and the few objects found within them, may be assigned to the IVth Dynasty or thereabouts. These small tombs are described in the opening section of the next chapter. The next period of local history is represented by a row of rock chambers at the southern end of our tract, just above the village of Beni Hassan itself. In these also there fortunately remained one or two original interments and other evidences, including a few inscriptions carved upon the walls. These seem to belong to the full development of the Old Empire, about the Vth Dynasty.
30
The burial customs illustrated by these tombs near Nuerat obviously represent an early phase of development. The construction of the tombs in the rock argues a certain advance upon the archaic methods ; but the nature of the interments, unless they are local exceptions to the general rule, excludes them from any date. later than the first days of the Old Empire. They fall into position without difficulty or much uncertainty in the transitional phase between the IIIrd and IVth Dynasties which links the archaic with the advanced culture of the Pyramid Age.
University of Liverpool Institute of Archaeology THE BURIAL CUSTOMS OF ANCIENT EGYPT AS ILLUSTRATED BY TOMBS OF THE MIDDLE KINGDOM BEING A Report of Excavations made in the Necropolis of Beni Hassan during 1902-3-4 BY JOHN GARSTANG B LITT MA FSA
National Museum Liverpool Human Remains; Skull Fragments 4500 BC - 3100 BC about
Human remains from a burial at Armant, excavated in 1932. Cranial, maxilla and mandible bones with some teeth missing. Both marked in ink with the grave number 1323.
Wellcome Historical Medical Museum accession number 153492. Provenance on the Wellcome Historical Medical Museum accession card recorded as, "Egyptian Exploration Society, Armant, 1931-1932. Pre-dynastic Settlement, S[equence] D[ate] 1000".
quote:Originally posted by Elmaestro: By nature of the game the Nuerat Sample will have non-negligable SSA of some-sort. The CHG component being absent is a tell. However, what I've grown to notice is that a "Natufian" component doesn't really make sense. I said about 5 years ago that the reason why Natufian ancestry is preferred in a lot of models is because of the fact that they're a good proxy in the absence of North African aDNA. What I didn't call into attention was simply reference bias due to the Natufians being relatively low-coverage Psuedo-Haploid source population. There's actually no academic consensus on the make-up of their genetic profile. Some studies have them as partially Taforalt, Some as partially Ancient East African, WHG... etc. I think it's more insightful to use a combination of CHG/Dzudzuana, Pinarbasi and Taforalt to try to model populations in adjacent to models relying on the Natufian stand in. Therefore we'll get resolution on both the Novel samples and Natufians.
I see what you mean. The lack of Egyptian or Sudanese Neolithic samples probably muddies the water a bit here. With that being said, we have at least some Iberomaurusian Taforalt samples. Thus we can conclude that the OK Egyptians, and thus the Pyramid builders, were not Iberomaurasian-like or even proto-Berber.
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quote:Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-: So without the CHG ancestry, would this not suggest the lower Egyptians sampled were closer to Natufian aka Afro-Asiatic peoples...
It seems the consensus is that the Natufians would've looked similar to this..
quote:Compared with Europe, palaeogenetics in Africa is poorly studied, in part because DNA degrades faster in tropical and dry environments. Chapter 4 aims to unveil population movements in Egypt and Sudan from the Neolithic onward. DNA was extracted from 94 samples from Armant (Egypt), Nuerat (Egypt) and Ghaba (Sudan) dated from the Early Neolithic to the historic period. Genome-wide data were successfully recovered from one sample from Nuerat sequenced to 0.22X coverage, dated to 2,868-2,492 cal BCE (95.4% probability) - consistent with the 3rd-4th Dynasties of the Old Kingdom. Allele frequency-based analyses (PCA, ADMIXTURE, f-statistics, qpAdm) show a strong genetic affinity of this sample to Levantine Natufians. Compared with genomes dated from the end of the Dynastic period (Third Intermediate Period) and present-day Egyptians, the Nuerat sample did not carry the Caucasus Hunter-Gatherer genetic component that started to spread across West Asia ~4,000 years ago and is widely spread in present-day populations. The presence of this component in Egypt is likely associated with admixture between local Egyptian populations and Bronze Age-related populations from West Asia. This admixture pattern might result from the dominance of Lower Egypt by Canaanite (Levantine) rulers during the Second Intermediate Period (ca. 1,650-1,550 BCE).
I don't understand what is problematic about this Beyoku? Seems to me the data suggests that the Lower Egyptians were populated by Natufian related peoples?
It seems to me that, without more prehistoric samples from Northeastern Africa, "Natufian" is our best model for indigenous pre-OOA African ancestry in the region. Hence why you see a lot of Northeast African samples like Nubians and the East African Pastoral Neolithic getting modeled as Natufian/Dinka mixes.
What I find strange is that this abstract doesn't mention either a presence or absence of "sub-Saharan" ancestry in the Nuerat sample (Nuerat is in Middle Egypt a little north of Beni Hasan, BTW). I do expect to find a little Dinka- or Mota-like ancestry in there, maybe somewhere on the spectrum between the Abusir el-Meleq and the Kadruka samples, but we will have to wait until the results are published to verify or falsify my hunch.
How they look and their genetic compositions are two different things. You can simply reference their reconstructions for how they looked. Their genetic composition is not fully resolved. The Bedoiun who you've posted might be the closest to Natufians but they're not purely Natufian.
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quote:Originally posted by BrandonP: [QUOTE]Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-: ..........
What I find strange is that this abstract doesn't mention either a presence or absence of "sub-Saharan" ancestry in the Nuerat sample (Nuerat is in Middle Egypt a little north of Beni Hasan, BTW). I do expect to find a little Dinka- or Mota-like ancestry in there, maybe somewhere on the spectrum between the Abusir el-Meleq and the Kadruka samples, but we will have to wait until the results are published to verify or falsify my hunch.
The abstract usually doesn't tell everything, and you sometimes see non-mentioned admixture results and gene flow later in the full study. So, any detected Dinka or Mota ancestry will be shown in the preprint or final paper. Besides, in my opinion, Dinka- or Mota-like ancestry in OK Egyptians can be expected and won't be absent.
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quote:Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-: So without the CHG ancestry, would this not suggest the lower Egyptians sampled were closer to Natufian aka Afro-Asiatic peoples...
It seems the consensus is that the Natufians would've looked similar to this..
quote:Compared with Europe, palaeogenetics in Africa is poorly studied, in part because DNA degrades faster in tropical and dry environments. Chapter 4 aims to unveil population movements in Egypt and Sudan from the Neolithic onward. DNA was extracted from 94 samples from Armant (Egypt), Nuerat (Egypt) and Ghaba (Sudan) dated from the Early Neolithic to the historic period. Genome-wide data were successfully recovered from one sample from Nuerat sequenced to 0.22X coverage, dated to 2,868-2,492 cal BCE (95.4% probability) - consistent with the 3rd-4th Dynasties of the Old Kingdom. Allele frequency-based analyses (PCA, ADMIXTURE, f-statistics, qpAdm) show a strong genetic affinity of this sample to Levantine Natufians. Compared with genomes dated from the end of the Dynastic period (Third Intermediate Period) and present-day Egyptians, the Nuerat sample did not carry the Caucasus Hunter-Gatherer genetic component that started to spread across West Asia ~4,000 years ago and is widely spread in present-day populations. The presence of this component in Egypt is likely associated with admixture between local Egyptian populations and Bronze Age-related populations from West Asia. This admixture pattern might result from the dominance of Lower Egypt by Canaanite (Levantine) rulers during the Second Intermediate Period (ca. 1,650-1,550 BCE).
I don't understand what is problematic about this Beyoku? Seems to me the data suggests that the Lower Egyptians were populated by Natufian related peoples?
It seems to me that, without more prehistoric samples from Northeastern Africa, "Natufian" is our best model for indigenous pre-OOA African ancestry in the region. Hence why you see a lot of Northeast African samples like Nubians and the East African Pastoral Neolithic getting modeled as Natufian/Dinka mixes.
What I find strange is that this abstract doesn't mention either a presence or absence of "sub-Saharan" ancestry in the Nuerat sample (Nuerat is in Middle Egypt a little north of Beni Hasan, BTW). I do expect to find a little Dinka- or Mota-like ancestry in there, maybe somewhere on the spectrum between the Abusir el-Meleq and the Kadruka samples, but we will have to wait until the results are published to verify or falsify my hunch.
How they look and their genetic compositions are two different things. You can simply reference their reconstructions for how they looked. Their genetic composition is not fully resolved. The Bedoiun who you've posted might be the closest to Natufians but they're not purely Natufian.
Indeed, we don't know the genetic profile of these two individuals, so you can't go by appearance here. And the second man on the picture is probably a Tuareg due to his blue turban.
Anyway, we have today a more refined and updated reconstruction of the Natufian skull. Here's a rendering of what a Natufian might have looked like.
Most Soqotri belong to the paternal haplogroup J, bearing the basal J*(xJ1,J2) clade at its highest frequencies (71.4%). The remaining individuals mainly carry the J1 subclade (14.3%).[4] YFull[5] and FTDNA[6] have however failed to find J* people anywhere in the world although there are 2 J2-Y130506 persons and 1 J1 person from Soqotra.
Haplogroup E is represented at a frequency of 9.5% and three other haplogroups, F*(xJ,K), K*(xO,P) and R*(xR1b), are present in one individual each. (Viktor Cerny 2009)
Maternally, the Soqotri primarily belong to the haplogroups N (24.3% N*; 6.2% N1a) and R0 (17.8% R0a1b; 13.8% R0a; 6.2% R0a1). The basal N* clade occurs at its highest frequencies among them. The next most common mtDNA lineages borne by Soqotri individuals are the haplogroups J (9.2% J*; 3.1 J1b), T (7.7% T2; 1.2% T*), L3 (4.3% L3*), H (3.1%), and R (1.2 R*)
_________________________
The Tuareg man is from Mali
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quote:Originally posted by beyoku: Black folk steadily getting played with feelgoodism fancy editing.
STR results from one set of mummies do not trump SNP results from a totally separate unrelated group of mummies. New studies putting a foot in that ass while we regurgitate 15 year old data with no new analysis. Rude Awakenings coming. Prepare.
Rude Awakenings to what? Prepare for what? Exactly?
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Most Soqotri belong to the paternal haplogroup J, bearing the basal J*(xJ1,J2) clade at its highest frequencies (71.4%). The remaining individuals mainly carry the J1 subclade (14.3%).[4] YFull[5] and FTDNA[6] have however failed to find J* people anywhere in the world although there are 2 J2-Y130506 persons and 1 J1 person from Soqotra.
Haplogroup E is represented at a frequency of 9.5% and three other haplogroups, F*(xJ,K), K*(xO,P) and R*(xR1b), are present in one individual each. (Viktor Cerny 2009)
Maternally, the Soqotri primarily belong to the haplogroups N (24.3% N*; 6.2% N1a) and R0 (17.8% R0a1b; 13.8% R0a; 6.2% R0a1). The basal N* clade occurs at its highest frequencies among them. The next most common mtDNA lineages borne by Soqotri individuals are the haplogroups J (9.2% J*; 3.1 J1b), T (7.7% T2; 1.2% T*), L3 (4.3% L3*), H (3.1%), and R (1.2 R*)
_________________________
The Tuareg man is from Mali
How do you know that one is from Mali? What is his Haplogroup?
copied from Qoura...
[QUOTE]Interestingly, it is just to the south of the core area of the Natufian culture that we find people with more Natufian/Natufian-like ancestry in the 21st century, which indicates that the precursors of agriculture and sedentary life in that region of the globe received lots of foreign genetic input, but, though they resisted in their homeland, left a more significant genetic impact outside the Levant “proper”, but still close to it. That is, in the Arabian peninsula, in Egypt and in the southernmost portion of the Levant, the Negev desert and the Sinai peninsula.
These are the modern populations (among those available in the Global25 datasheets) that are most genetically similar to the Natufians (not that much, though, as genetic distances are relatively large):
"The Mahri language of Southern Arabian is one of the few indigenous, non-Arabic languages remaining on the Arabian Peninsula, and since Mahri is a non-written language, poetry in the Mahri language is a strictly oral art form Cushitic substratum in their languages discovered by Militarev
-------------------- It's not my burden to disabuse the ignorant of their wrong opinions Posts: 2699 | From: New York | Registered: Jun 2015
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Most Soqotri belong to the paternal haplogroup J, bearing the basal J*(xJ1,J2) clade at its highest frequencies (71.4%). The remaining individuals mainly carry the J1 subclade (14.3%).[4] YFull[5] and FTDNA[6] have however failed to find J* people anywhere in the world although there are 2 J2-Y130506 persons and 1 J1 person from Soqotra.
Haplogroup E is represented at a frequency of 9.5% and three other haplogroups, F*(xJ,K), K*(xO,P) and R*(xR1b), are present in one individual each. (Viktor Cerny 2009)
Maternally, the Soqotri primarily belong to the haplogroups N (24.3% N*; 6.2% N1a) and R0 (17.8% R0a1b; 13.8% R0a; 6.2% R0a1). The basal N* clade occurs at its highest frequencies among them. The next most common mtDNA lineages borne by Soqotri individuals are the haplogroups J (9.2% J*; 3.1 J1b), T (7.7% T2; 1.2% T*), L3 (4.3% L3*), H (3.1%), and R (1.2 R*)
_________________________
The Tuareg man is from Mali
How do you know that one is from Mali? What is his Haplogroup?
I don't know what his haplogroup or what the man from Socqotri's haplogroup is
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quote:
In particular, the Tuareg have 50% to 80% of their paternal lineages E1b1b1b-M81
In particular, the Tuareg have 50% to 80% of their paternal lineages E1b1b1b-M81...
The second component separates all North African populations except Egyptians from all other populations and shows that E-M81 plays a major role in this structure. The Tuareg appear to be drawn towards sub-Saharans while Egyptians clustered with Middle Easterners close to Palestinians...
Population structure within North Africa starts with the splitting of Egypt around 2,800 ya. Tuareg split next from North Africans around 1,900 ya, followed by the remaining North Africans splitting around 1,000-1,300 ya.
Published online 2013 Nov 27. doi: 10.1371/journal.pone.0080293 PMCID: PMC3842387 PMID: 24312208 Genome-Wide and Paternal Diversity Reveal a Recent Origin of Human Populations in North Africa Karima Fadhlaoui-Zid,
quote: Deep into the roots of the Libyan Tuareg: a genetic survey of their paternal heritage Claudio Ottoni 1, Maarten H D Larmuseau, Nancy Vanderheyden, Cristina Martínez-Labarga, Giuseppina Primativo, Gianfranco Biondi, Ronny Decorte, Olga Rickards Affiliations expand PMID: 21312181 DOI: 10.1002/ajpa.21473 Abstract Recent genetic studies of the Tuareg have begun to uncover the origin of this semi-nomadic northwest African people and their relationship with African populations. For centuries they were caravan traders plying the trade routes between the Mediterranean coast and south-Saharan Africa. Their origin most likely coincides with the fall of the Garamantes who inhabited the Fezzan (Libya) between the 1st millennium BC and the 5th century AD. In this study we report novel data on the Y-chromosome variation in the Libyan Tuareg from Al Awaynat and Tahala, two villages in Fezzan, whose maternal genetic pool was previously characterized. High-resolution investigation of 37 Y-chromosome STR loci and analysis of 35 bi-allelic markers in 47 individuals revealed a predominant northwest African component (E-M81, haplogroup E1b1b1b) which likely originated in the second half of the Holocene in the same ancestral population that contributed to the maternal pool of the Libyan Tuareg. A significant paternal contribution from south-Saharan Africa (E-U175, haplogroup E1b1a8) was also detected, which may likely be due to recent secondary introduction, possibly through slavery practices or fusion between different tribal groups. The difference in haplogroup composition between the villages of Al Awaynat and Tahala suggests that founder effects and drift played a significant role in shaping the genetic pool of the Libyan Tuareg.
quote:Originally posted by beyoku: Black folk steadily getting played with feelgoodism fancy editing.
STR results from one set of mummies do not trump SNP results from a totally separate unrelated group of mummies. New studies putting a foot in that ass while we regurgitate 15 year old data with no new analysis. Rude Awakenings coming. Prepare.
The problem is they're falling for the 'Sub-Saharan' trap that Eurocentrics have created. Genetic Sub-Saharan is the new "True Negro". Indigenous African genetic diversity is much greater than that.
-------------------- Mahirap gisingin ang nagtutulog-tulugan. Posts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
Posting various pictures of modern people is not that useful to the thread. The issue I was trying to get at with this thread is comparing the value of ethnicity predictions derived from database comparisons of STR autosomal DNA compared to haplotyping by SNP. The video maker 'The Kings Monologue' was favoring STR over SNP and using the Keita article as reference, however if you look at the Gourdine/Keita article they do also discuss much about haplogroups as well. However the only chart they produced was the PopAffiliator STR derived chart That was 2018-2020, that shows high percentages of African although I'm not sure what the STRUCTURE program would say, which is the one use in most professional genetics articles
This reported haplogroups of the Amarna (both Y and MtDNA of males also, and MtDNA of females) but also mentioning their earlier report on Rameses III, who had dissimilar Y DNA to the Amarna kings
However, wisely unlike Verena J. Schuenemann (2017) and the Max Planck click the Egyptian researchers avoid using the data to make ethnic conclusions about the Ancient Egyptians in these articles and avoid flamboyant genetics claims in press releases although you might find remarks by Hawass in interviews if you dig when pressed on general questions on the AE's ethnicity
quote:Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-: I don't understand what is problematic about this Beyoku? Seems to me the data suggests that the Lower Egyptians were populated by Natufian related peoples?
Morez, A (2023) Reconstructing past human genetic variation with ancient DNA: case studies from ancient Egypt and medieval Europe. Doctoral thesis, Liverpool John Moores University.
Compared with Europe, palaeogenetics in Africa is poorly studied, in part because DNA degrades faster in tropical and dry environments. Chapter 4 aims to unveil population movements in Egypt and Sudan from the Neolithic onward. DNA was extracted from 94 samples from Armant (Egypt), Nuerat (Egypt) and Ghaba (Sudan) dated from the Early Neolithic to the historic period. Genome-wide data were successfully recovered from one sample from Nuerat sequenced to 0.22X coverage, dated to 2,868-2,492 cal BCE (95.4% probability) - consistent with the 3rd-4th Dynasties of the Old Kingdom. Allele frequency-based analyses (PCA, ADMIXTURE, f-statistics, qpAdm) show a strong genetic affinity of this sample to Levantine Natufians. Compared with genomes dated from the end of the Dynastic period (Third Intermediate Period) and present-day Egyptians, the Nuerat sample did not carry the Caucasus Hunter-Gatherer genetic component that started to spread across West Asia ~4,000 years ago and is widely spread in present-day populations. The presence of this component in Egypt is likely associated with admixture between local Egyptian populations and Bronze Age-related populations from West Asia. This admixture pattern might result from the dominance of Lower Egypt by Canaanite (Levantine) rulers during the Second Intermediate Period (ca. 1,650-1,550 BCE).
I don't understand what is problematic about this Beyoku? Seems to me the data suggests that the Lower Egyptians were populated by Natufian related peoples?
Too much emphasis here is placed on Natufians (and keep in mind only the Y DNA of 5 Natufians has been reported) They are talking about one sample out of 94
quote:
"94 samples from Armant (Egypt), Nuerat (Egypt) and Ghaba (Sudan) dated from the Early Neolithic to the historic period."..
Genome-wide data were successfully recovered from one sample from Nuerat sequenced to 0.22X coverage, dated to 2,868-2,492...
show a strong genetic affinity of this sample to Levantine Natufians.
the keyword here is one and now people are going off about Natufians
I will indulge this one picture:
Abdel Fattah Saeed Hussein Khalil el-Sisi the sixth and current president of Egypt since 2014.
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quote:Originally posted by beyoku: Black folk steadily getting played with feelgoodism fancy editing.
STR results from one set of mummies do not trump SNP results from a totally separate unrelated group of mummies. New studies putting a foot in that ass while we regurgitate 15 year old data with no new analysis. Rude Awakenings coming. Prepare.
The problem is they're falling for the 'Sub-Saharan' trap that Eurocentrics have created. Genetic Sub-Saharan is the new "True Negro". Indigenous African genetic diversity is much greater than that.
we can already dismiss conclusions made in the article "Ancient Egyptian mummy genomes suggest an increase of Sub-Saharan African ancestry in post-Roman periods Verena J. Schuenemann,2017"
We can dismiss conclusions about the ethnicity of the AEs in general before even getting into what they said in the article about a Sub-Saharan component increasing later
We can dismiss the conclusions because of the 90 mummies they are - all from one location - vast majority late period - all mitochondrial DNA except for 3 (and none of these 3 included the small few of older mummies) - and one of the full genome mummies was E1b
We already had long thread discussing the weak conclusions of that article So we can move on to the Amarna
what I am trying to get to is the comparison of STR vs SNP data as per aDNA How much weight should be given to each one
Posts: 42919 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Originally posted by beyoku: Black folk steadily getting played with feelgoodism fancy editing.
STR results from one set of mummies do not trump SNP results from a totally separate unrelated group of mummies. New studies putting a foot in that ass while we regurgitate 15 year old data with no new analysis. Rude Awakenings coming. Prepare.
The problem is they're falling for the 'Sub-Saharan' trap that Eurocentrics have created. Genetic Sub-Saharan is the new "True Negro". Indigenous African genetic diversity is much greater than that.
The " true negro " trap is why there are no rude awakenings to "prepare" for..
How can Mahra have the highest natufian components yet have high neanderthal introgression, and Haplogroup J at 70% and Hap E at 28%. They have no subsaharan admixture but have 21% Mtdna L ( xM, N ) Basel N has also been found in the Magreb
quote: However, our ADMIXTURE results indicate that a subset of Yemeni samples from the Mahra governate share a very high level of ancestry (~85%) with a single Near Eastern component. Interestingly, these individuals have Neanderthal ancestry estimates that are greater than estimates from almost all Near Eastern and North African populations and are more consistent with estimates from European and South/Central Asian populations, suggesting that eastern Yemen may be an area of elevated Neanderthal introgression in the Near East. Greater sampling of Near Eastern populations is needed to better understand variation in Neanderthal ancestry and the site(s) where modern humans and Neanderthals interbred."/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]One thing a person might catch right off the bat when reading the study is that it points out that modern Horn-Africans, Somalis included, based on formal-stats, seem to share drift with both Neolithic Levantines and Iranians whereas the Southeast African Pastoralist from 3,000 years ago only seems to share drift with Neolithic Levantines:
We found that the 3,100 BP individual (Tanzania_Luxmanda_3100BP), associated with a Savanna Pastoral Neolithic archeological tradition, could be modeled as having 38% ± 1% of her ancestry related to the nearly 10,000-year-old pre-pottery farmers of the Levant (Lazaridis et al.,2016) , and we can exclude source populations related to early farmer populations in Iran and Anatolia.
quote:While these findings show that a Levant-Neolithic-related population made a critical contribution to the ancestry of present-day eastern Africans (Lazaridis et al., 2016), present-day Cushitic speakers such as the Somali cannot be fit simply as having Tanzania_Luxmanda_3100BP ancestry. The best fitting model for the Somali includes Tanzania_Luxmanda_3100BP ancestry, Dinka-related ancestry, and 16% ± 3% Iranian-Neolithic-related ancestry (p = 0.015). This suggests that ancestry related to the Iranian Neolithic appeared in eastern Africa after earlier gene flow related to Levant Neolithic populations , a scenario that is made more plausible by the genetic evidence of admixture of Iranian-Neolithic-related ancestry throughout the Levant by the time of the Bronze Age (Lazaridis et al., 2016) and in ancient Egypt by the Iron Age (Schuenemann et al., 2017)
-------------------- It's not my burden to disabuse the ignorant of their wrong opinions Posts: 2699 | From: New York | Registered: Jun 2015
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quote:Originally posted by beyoku: Black folk steadily getting played with feelgoodism fancy editing.
STR results from one set of mummies do not trump SNP results from a totally separate unrelated group of mummies. New studies putting a foot in that ass while we regurgitate 15 year old data with no new analysis. Rude Awakenings coming. Prepare.
Rude Awakenings to what? Prepare for what? Exactly?
See what Djehuti wrote. We are using outdated models that are not grounded in human variation and adaptation in an attempt to compete with Eurocentrism on its own pseudo-scientific level. This is done in absence of archeology. Worst of all is a regurgitation of antiquated and pre-genomic arguments. We are not even building upon the data of our master teachers. Right now on Youtube, People are creating videos with fancy editing....parroting things from Diop and Obenga years 50 years ago.... combining it with things we said on Egyptsearch 20 years ago....to argue against genome wide data sequenced from mummies last year. This is why we are left flat footed IMO. Leading to the erasure of entire swathes of African specific genomic and phenotypic diversity which is masked by de-pigmentation.
At this rate...knowing what is coming down the pipe:
Posts: 2463 | From: New Jersey USA | Registered: Dec 2007
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posted
Undoubtedly the only solution to this is to make one's own well edited youtube videos
Posts: 42919 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Originally posted by beyoku: Black folk steadily getting played with feelgoodism fancy editing.
STR results from one set of mummies do not trump SNP results from a totally separate unrelated group of mummies. New studies putting a foot in that ass while we regurgitate 15 year old data with no new analysis. Rude Awakenings coming. Prepare.
Rude Awakenings to what? Prepare for what? Exactly?
See what Djehuti wrote. We are using outdated models that are not grounded in human variation and adaptation in an attempt to compete with Eurocentrism on its own pseudo-scientific level. This is done in absence of archeology. Worst of all is a regurgitation of antiquated and pre-genomic arguments. We are not even building upon the data of our master teachers. Right now on Youtube, People are creating videos with fancy editing....parroting things from Diop and Obenga years 50 years ago.... combining it with things we said on Egyptsearch 20 years ago....to argue against genome wide data sequenced from mummies last year. This is why we are left flat footed IMO. Leading to the erasure of entire swathes of African specific genomic and phenotypic diversity which is masked by de-pigmentation.
At this rate...knowing what is coming down the pipe:
Calm the F down, there is no spoon, there is no towel, there are no rude awakenings smh....
You assume, I started from the premise that all Sub Africans/Saharan Africans are identical genetically, and that Yoruba's founded the Egyptian civilization, from a locus of the Niger Bend. I never believed that by the way.
What pseudo amateur afrocentrics on social media believe and promote as popular knowledge aka fake news does not count. I would like you to tell me which old school afrocentric wrote this and taught this?
-------------------- It's not my burden to disabuse the ignorant of their wrong opinions Posts: 2699 | From: New York | Registered: Jun 2015
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@Yatunde Lisa Bey - This is not a criticism of you as an individual (Unless you made that video) . This is a critique of the "Black Egypt" community as a whole which has devolved into trolling, pseudo-science, ethnocentrism, and xenophobia. Why make an article about a Keita publication when Egyptsearch did what Keita did 10 years before he did it? Matter of fact, why make a video about Keita's publication yet still "Persist in the racial thinking" that Keita warned about when i was in Highschool over 25 year ago?
@the lioness. No. It all needs to be slashed and burned. Those who fall in its wake will be left as fertilizer creating nutrient rich soil where a new generation of scholars can sow seeds.
Posts: 2463 | From: New Jersey USA | Registered: Dec 2007
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quote:Originally posted by beyoku: This is a critique of the "Black Egypt" community as a whole which has devolved into trolling, pseudo-science, ethnocentrism, and xenophobia. Why make an article about a Keita publication when Egyptsearch did what Keita did 10 years before he did it? Matter of fact, why make a video about Keita's publication yet still that Keita warned about when i was in Highschool over 25 year ago?
Well I assume that youtubers The Kings Monologue of this thread and Mr. Imhotep fall into this category but what about HomeTeam History? They seem relatively more accurate but I have not taken a hard look it
So we have Scott ADams, suggesting white people move away from black people but that's old school white flight but I also noticed that he was interviewed by Hotep Jesus of "Hotep Nation" In that thread I posted a list of Hotep Nation's FAQS about Hotep Nation, they say first off:
"Hotep Nation is a non-profit 501(c) dedicated to promoting the idea of homeschooling in America.Our mission is to empower families with the resources they need to make the transition from mainstream educational institutions to value-oriented homeschooling, painlessly."
and there was another of their items that I didn't post but I saw, their book list:
So they have all that old predictable stuff on that list, not very hip to the latest
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: Undoubtedly the only solution to this is to make one's own well edited youtube videos
quote:Originally posted by beyoku: @the lioness. No. It all needs to be slashed and burned. Those who fall in its wake will be left as fertilizer creating nutrient rich soil where a new generation of scholars can sow seeds.
so you or some collaborator with video production skills making more accurate youtube videos is not something you would consider? This dude King's Monologue say he has over 400K views
So on the one hand homeschooling is becoming more popular with white Republicans and MAGAs reacting to all this stuff they label as "woke" and drag book readings for kids, homeschooling so their kids won't be exposed to "dangerous books"
On the other hand there's this Hotep stuff regurgitating and not updating and they are into their own homeschooling and also all these videos on youtube bypassing formal academic education entirely
That's the internet world we are in now, do-it-yourself everything, isolate into your own tribal echo chamber
So anybody on youtube is now, also an educator and the more slick production skills they have, the more work they put into to a crisp video and a well organized script, and sprinkling in a little conspiracy this stuff is presented more in a more entertaining and graphically more appealing way then the dry university academics and scholars doing dry low quality videos of them lecturing with a slide presentation
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I was trying to figure out the source of this picture, It looks like some men looking at some statue
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I agree with beyoku that a lot of people advocating for African Egypt need to update their paradigms and pay more attention to recent scholarship. A big part of the problem is that most laypeople are conditioned into "racial thinking" which affects how they view data. That's why a lot of these arguments over ancient Egypt's African roots get reduced to "were they 'Negroid'/SSA/Black". People get too hung up on how much AE would have resembled West and Central Africans because they are accustomed to thinking of those latter populations as the definitive "Black African people", even though there are plenty of dark-skinned ethnic groups in other parts of Africa who don't look like them.
Remember, it wasn't that long ago when Australasians and certain South Asians were classified as "Black" or "Negroid", even though today's racialists would prefer to give them their own "Australoid" racial category. Our whole construct of race is antiquated and contradicted by our current genetic knowledge. For example, we now know that, since non-African ancestry is nested within African ancestry, that some "Negroid" Africans are more closely related to those non-Africans than they are to certain other "Negroid" Africans. That is not something compatible with the racial thinking that even Afrocentrics can fall victim to.
quote:Originally posted by beyoku: No. It all needs to be slashed and burned. Those who fall in its wake will be left as fertilizer creating nutrient rich soil where a new generation of scholars can sow seeds.
What we need is more people who know better, like Keita, speaking up and doing more to reach out to the general public. They won't convince everyone, for the same reason that not even NASA has been able to convince everyone that the Earth is an oblate spheroid (look up "flat Earthers" if you don't believe me), but they can provide an authoritative counterpoint to all the nonsense you see everywhere.
Huh? Somalis and Ethiopians are SSA but don't all look like west Africans which is a region.
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quote:Originally posted by Thereal: were they 'Negroid'/SSA/Black
Huh? Somalis and Ethiopians are SSA but don't all look like west Africans which is a region.
You're technically right, but I meant "SSA" as synonymous with the stereotyped West/Central African phenotype, which is how even people who should know better (i.e. people in the bio-anthropology fandom) often use it.
So what did Diop say? They claim to be from the east and found pygmies in the country when they arrived.
What did shumlaka dna say? Only Batwa DNA found Geneticists sequenced genome-wide DNA data from four Shum Laka foragers buried at the site of Shum Laka in Cameroon between 8000–3000 years ago.
E1b1* etc and L3 have North eastern provenance... L2 is bidirectional on the Sahel
-------------------- It's not my burden to disabuse the ignorant of their wrong opinions Posts: 2699 | From: New York | Registered: Jun 2015
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quote:Originally posted by beyoku: @Yatunde Lisa Bey - This is not a criticism of you as an individual (Unless you made that video) . This is a critique of the "Black Egypt" community as a whole which has devolved into trolling, pseudo-science, ethnocentrism, and xenophobia. Why make an article about a Keita publication when Egyptsearch did what Keita did 10 years before he did it? Matter of fact, why make a video about Keita's publication yet still "Persist in the racial thinking" that Keita warned about when i was in Highschool over 25 year ago?
@the lioness. No. It all needs to be slashed and burned. Those who fall in its wake will be left as fertilizer creating nutrient rich soil where a new generation of scholars can sow seeds.
By the whole thing being slashed and burned, I assume you mean Afrocentrists? How Nhilistic of you Nah, some people including you need to in fact go back and read the old heads ( even when they are wrong) and understand/comprehend what was actually said and written, much of it was on point, and needed criticism of Eurocentric thought and racist historical propaganda and white supremacy eugenics of the time. Old afrocentrics are not responsible for the EGOISTS who go out on twitter on propagate falshoods, to win social media beefs.
Notice... Eurocentrics have not given up a damn thing they are just rewriting paradigms to favor Eurasians in the DNA game, even tho.. the category itself called "Eurasian" is false... some dna classified as " Eurasian " should be described as "Afrasian..." As long as racial thinking persists with the Europoids, it will persist everywhere
Afrocentricists should never unilaterally disarm that would be stupid. I am still waiting for an answer to my original question...
The modern game of genetics is still being played on the 19th century Eugenics game board...
RPSG Lecture 15 Dec 2021 - Eugenics: A Dark History and Troubling Present Dr Adam Rutherford
some of y'all are some naive MF'ers and some of y'all have yet to crack open a history book and it shows, if one DNA result gots you sweating, or if you are still expecting Rameses III to be changed back from E1b1a to E1b1b.¯\_(ツ)_/¯
-------------------- It's not my burden to disabuse the ignorant of their wrong opinions Posts: 2699 | From: New York | Registered: Jun 2015
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quote:Originally posted by mightywolf: Anyway, we have today a more refined and updated reconstruction of the Natufian skull. Here's a rendering of what a Natufian might have looked like.
LOL
Sorry but I don't trust facial reconstructions, especially those from artists who are not double-blinded and thus prone to biases, and I particularly don't take anything seriously from 'Ancestral Whispers'!
You do realize that the Natufians craniometrically have shown close affinities to Sub-Saharan Africans, right?
But just to show you how ludicrous the artists of 'Ancestral Whispers' are, here below was their initial reconstruction of Nazlet Khater 2, the 33,000 year old Upper Egyptian man!:
^ This despite the fact that due to rather conspicuous craniofacial features, virtually all the experts like Ron Pinhasi, Collin Groves, Pierre Vermeersch etc. concur that he represents a population ancestral to modern Sub-Saharan "negroes"! I understand that a recent study of his inner ear bones show affinities with modern Eurasians, but seriously a facial reconstruction is suppose to be based on the visible skull as a whole. I guess you can reconstruct any skull to look European no matter how "negroid" it looks.
When 'Ancestral Whispers' received backlash from even white laypeople who were not 'Afrocentrics' due to their overly blatant white-wash, they then did another reconstruction This shows just how accurate or rather inaccurate reconstructions are.
P.S. The affinities of NK's inner ear bones should give Afrocentrics a clue as to just how "Eurasian" Epipaleolithic Southwest Asians were much less North Africans.
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Nature. 2016 Aug 25; 536(7617): 419–424. doi: 10.1038/nature19310
Genomic insights into the origin of farming in the ancient Near East
A population without Neanderthal admixture, basal to other Eurasians, may have plausibly lived in Africa. Craniometric analyses have suggested an affinity between the Natufians and populations of north or sub-Saharan Africa24,25, a result that finds some support from Y chromosome analysis which shows that the Natufians and successor Levantine Neolithic populations carried haplogroup E, of likely ultimate African origin, which has not been detected in other ancient males from West Eurasia (Supplementary Information, section 6) 7,8. However, no affinity of Natufians to sub-Saharan Africans is evident in our genome-wide analysis, as present-day sub-Saharan Africans do not share more alleles with Natufians than with other ancient Eurasians (Extended Data Table 1).
Nature. 2016 Aug 25; 536(7617): 419–424. doi: 10.1038/nature19310
Genomic insights into the origin of farming in the ancient Near East
A population without Neanderthal admixture, basal to other Eurasians, may have plausibly lived in Africa. Craniometric analyses have suggested an affinity between the Natufians and populations of north or sub-Saharan Africa24,25, a result that finds some support from Y chromosome analysis which shows that the Natufians and successor Levantine Neolithic populations carried haplogroup E, of likely ultimate African origin, which has not been detected in other ancient males from West Eurasia (Supplementary Information, section 6) 7,8. However, no affinity of Natufians to sub-Saharan Africans is evident in our genome-wide analysis, as present-day sub-Saharan Africans do not share more alleles with Natufians than with other ancient Eurasians (Extended Data Table 1).
DO NOT SHARE MORE ALLELES, this claim is DUBIOUS...this is legalize type language, and conditional" Which SSA is he even talking about?" The " Yoruban sample" they keep using?
quote:on Natufian skeletal remains from present-day northern Israel, the remains of 5 Natufians carried the following paternal haplgroups:
E1b1b1b2 (xE1b1b1b2a, E1b1b1b2b) - meaning an unspecified branch of E1b1b1b2 E1b1 (xE1b1a1, E1b1b1b1) - i.e. a branch of E1b1 that is neither E1b1a1 nor E1b1b1b1. E1b1b1 - originally classified as CT but further defined as E1b1b1 by Martiniano et al. 2020. [58] A 2018 analysis by Daniel Shriner, using modern populations as a reference, suggested that the Natufians carried a small amount of Eastern African ancestry (~6.8%) associated with the modern Omotic-speaking groups of southern Ethiopia. The study also suggested that this component may be the source of Y-haplogroup E (particularly Y-haplogroup E-M215, also known as "E1b1b") among Natufians
quote:Laziridis 2018 defined the Iberomaurisians as own lineage from a unique population called 'Ancestral North African' (ANA). This ancestral population also contributed around 13% ancestry into Mesolithic Natufians of the Levant, as well as around 12,5% Iberomaurisian-like gene flow into modern West Africans (Yoruba)
quote:individuals associated with the Natufian culture have been found to cluster with other West-Eurasian populations, but also have substantial higher ancestry that can be traced back to the hypothetical "Basal Eurasian" lineage, which contributed in varying degrees to all West-Eurasian lineages, except the Ancient North Eurasians, and peaks among modern Gulf Arabs. The Natufians were already differentiated from other West-Eurasian lineages, such as the Anatolian farmers north of the Levant, that contributed to the peopling of Europe in significant amounts, and who had some Western Hunter Gatherer-like (WHG) inferred ancestry, in contrast to Natufians who lacked this component (similar to Neolithic Iranian farmers from the Zagros mountains). This might suggest that different strains of West-Eurasians contributed to Natufians and Zagros farmers,[51] as both Natufians and Zagros farmers descended from different populations of local hunter gatherers.
So Natufians have some minor ANA ancestry that includes some West African type 0.0455 % that had 8% Omotic, they carried African Ydna lineages and some African Mtdna lineages ( L3, L2 & Basal N) the CT has been corrected to E1b1... Natufian skeletal remains have Negroid affinity. Natufians have ancestral not derived SLC24A5. Natufians lack substantial neanderthal introgresssion. Natufians are not related to WHG nor CHG. Levantine Natufian remains are on the African techtonic plate... Natfuians are also the spreaders of AfroAsiatic languages ( that originate in AFRICA)
-------------------- It's not my burden to disabuse the ignorant of their wrong opinions Posts: 2699 | From: New York | Registered: Jun 2015
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quote:Originally posted by beyoku: @Yatunde Lisa Bey - This is not a criticism of you as an individual (Unless you made that video) . This is a critique of the "Black Egypt" community as a whole which has devolved into trolling, pseudo-science, ethnocentrism, and xenophobia. Why make an article about a Keita publication when Egyptsearch did what Keita did 10 years before he did it? Matter of fact, why make a video about Keita's publication yet still "Persist in the racial thinking" that Keita warned about when i was in Highschool over 25 year ago?
@the lioness. No. It all needs to be slashed and burned. Those who fall in its wake will be left as fertilizer creating nutrient rich soil where a new generation of scholars can sow seeds.
By the whole thing being slashed and burned, I assume you mean Afrocentrists? How Nhilistic of you Nah, some people including you need to in fact go back and read the old heads ( even when they are wrong) and understand/comprehend what was actually said and written, much of it was on point, and needed criticism of Eurocentric thought and racist historical propaganda and white supremacy eugenics of the time. Old afrocentrics are not responsible for the EGOISTS who go out on twitter on propagate falshoods, to win social media beefs.
Notice... Eurocentrics have not given up a damn thing they are just rewriting paradigms to favor Eurasians in the DNA game, even tho.. the category itself called "Eurasian" is false... some dna classified as " Eurasian " should be described as "Afrasian..." As long as racial thinking persists with the Europoids, it will persist everywhere
Afrocentricists should never unilaterally disarm that would be stupid. I am still waiting for an answer to my original question...
The modern game of genetics is still being played on the 19th century Eugenics game board...
RPSG Lecture 15 Dec 2021 - Eugenics: A Dark History and Troubling Present Dr Adam Rutherford
some of y'all are some naive MF'ers and some of y'all have yet to crack open a history book and it shows, if one DNA result gots you sweating, or if you are still expecting Rameses III to be changed back from E1b1a to E1b1b.¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I dont know how long you have been in this space but i was lurking Egyptsearch in like 2004/5. It's not about Afrocentricity. I am talking about "Black Egypt" which right NOW is simply a GRIFT. Its not just this ONE Study....its ALL the studies proving the Grift is up. When we HAVE the cranial analysis of Egyptian skeletons why model them in a reconstruction as looking West Central Africans when their are "Black People" in Luxor who look like King Tut and Akhenaton's Busts?
I think your suggestion is part of the problem, you don't recognize the opposition. Cracking open a book from 50-60 years ago that is NOT a primary source is part of the problem. Why do I need to crack open a book from 50 years ago when i can look at archeological findings done 5 Years ago?........from Archeological sites that didn't even EXIST 15-30 Years ago? That a problem, because the opposition is using data that was produced 5 DAYS ago! The entire movement is plagued with grifting and WORK AVOIDANCE. ANd to prove a point. Please post the last 5 articles on Nile Valley/African archaeology you have read that supports your position against the Euroclowns. Dont worry I will wait... Posts: 2463 | From: New Jersey USA | Registered: Dec 2007
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quote:Why do I need to crack open a book from 50 years ago when i can look at archaeologist findings done 5 Years ago?.
You don't have to crack open the old heads if you don't want, but you could crack open some new books because clearly, history is important and adds context to archaeological findings and sometimes can predict what the DNA/Archaeologists/Anthropologists are going to actually find.
But, you do you.... but don't run around like the sky is falling Chicken little when some obvious DNA findings pop up... not every Afrocentrist is a youtube grifter or social media incel looking for an egoist boost and hit of feel good dopamine.
And, I would like to hear the same heat given to Eurocentric grifters on youtube, and eurocentric incels on social media... because they are still promoting hate and white supremacy eugenics that are much more harmful Africans in general.
-------------------- It's not my burden to disabuse the ignorant of their wrong opinions Posts: 2699 | From: New York | Registered: Jun 2015
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quote:Please post the last 5 articles on Nile Valley/African archaeology you have read that supports your position against the Euroclowns. Dont worry I will wait...
Have I stated my position?
The way you view archaeology as benign is cute
-------------------- It's not my burden to disabuse the ignorant of their wrong opinions Posts: 2699 | From: New York | Registered: Jun 2015
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quote:Why do I need to crack open a book from 50 years ago when i can look at archaeologist findings done 5 Years ago?.
You don't have to crack open the old heads if you don't want, but you could crack open some new books because clearly, history is important and adds context to archaeological findings and sometimes can predict what the DNA/Archaeologists/Anthropologists are going to actually find.
But, you do you.... but don't run around like the sky is falling Chicken little when some obvious DNA findings pop up... not every Afrocentrist is a youtube grifter or social media incel looking for an egoist boost and hit of feel good dopamine.
And, I would like to hear the same heat given to Eurocentric grifters on youtube, and eurocentric incels on social media... because they are still promoting hate and white supremacy eugenics that are much more harmful Africans in general.
Exactly. Work Avoidance.
I ask what have you read that counters Euroclowns and supports your position...you reply with NOTHING. You right, Not every Afrocentric is Grifting for clicks. The most vocal, and loudest ones are so they control the narrative. Furthermore, what is the point of being "Vocal" and bringing heat to Eurocentric stupidity? What is the point of fighting pseudoscience with more pseudoscience? I am not here to study Eurocentrism. I am here to point out most are not ready to combat it.
So far, This is how things are going down:
Me: Euroclowns got guns now. you: We know karate though, look at these moves from 50 years ago. me: But they got guns....we need to get some better guns. you: Im, anti gun. me: They got brand new guns. We gonna lose. we need more guns. you: i mean, i looked at some guns. me: what are the last 5 guns you looked at? you: we dont need to talk our lack of guns. why dont you talk about how the euros got too many guns? you: (showing up to the gun ight with a knife.)
Posts: 2463 | From: New Jersey USA | Registered: Dec 2007
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posted
You who have insisted for the last 10 years that the Ram 3 call as E1b1a was a bad call and would soon be switched to E1b1b telling someone they have work avoidance is rich... all you had to do was crack open an Egyptology book to learn why that was never going to be..
But OK...
By the way, I am a real person, not an internet troll or incel, I started lurking on EgyptSearch back in 2001 or so... this is just an interest not a full time, job. In the last 20 years, I worked, raised my kids, helped to put them both through University ( successfully)... ran my own business ( successfully) and for the last three years took care of my dying father whom recently passed. I am just now focusing my full attention and reading back to this history. So... No laziness is not my issue...
-------------------- It's not my burden to disabuse the ignorant of their wrong opinions Posts: 2699 | From: New York | Registered: Jun 2015
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quote:Originally posted by Yatunde Lisa Bey: You who have insisted for the last 10 years that the Ram 3 call as E1b1a was a bad call and would soon be switched to E1b1b telling someone they have work avoidance is rich... all you had to do was crack open an Egyptology book to learn why that was never going to be.. .
I didn't say E1b1a was a "Bad Call". I explained specifically why stating a lineage is "E1b1a" (Which is a known SNP) based on limited *STR Testing* is not technically true.
quote: Short tandem repeats (STRs) and single nucleotide polymorphisms (SNPs) are two kinds of commonly used markers in Y chromosome studies of forensic and population genetics. There has been increasing interest in the cost saving strategy by using the STR haplotypes to predict SNP haplogroups. However, the convergence of Y chromosome STR haplotypes from different haplogroups might compromise the accuracy of haplogroup prediction. Here, we compared the worldwide Y chromosome lineages at both haplogroup level and haplotype level to search for the possible haplotype similarities among haplogroups. The similar haplotypes between haplogroups B and I2, C1 and E1b1b1, C2 and E1b1a1, H1 and J, L and O3a2c1, O1a and N, O3a1c and O3a2b, and M1 and O3a2 have been found, and those similarities reduce the accuracy of prediction.
quote: The most ancient lineage A00 also has the exclusive STR haplotypes. The haplotypes of haplogroup A1a and A1b1b2b show similarities with haplogroup DE and E1b1a1, thus, about 30% of A1a and A1b1b2b samples were mistaken as DE in YPredictor. Haplogroup B+s are probably the most diverse clades, sharing similar haplotypes with various haplogroups, such as haplogroups I2a1, R1a1, D2a, E1b1b1, and L. Actually, only 18% of haplogroup B samples could be successfully inferred, and 26% were mistaken as I2 or IJ, 21% were assigned as haplogroup R in YPredictor. Similar to haplogroup B, the haplotypes of paragroup F*, H*, and K* are also too diverse to be used in haplogroup prediction. Most haplotypes of haplogroup C1 are similar to those of E1b1b1 and 22% of C1 samples were mistaken as E1b1b1 in prediction. Similarly, haplogroup C2 and its sublineages C2a and C2a1 shared most haplotypes with E1b1a1 and therefore 37% of those C2 samples were mistaken as E1b1a1.
This is the work. I will take the work and accurate analysis ANY DAY over the casual acceptance of a predicted results because it happens to ALSO Be the one i carry. DATA > Feelgoodism. When and If they SNP test Ramesses III or ANY of these mummies that have conflicting STR predictions in different calculators guess who is not going to be left flat footed? Dont get butthurt i made the claim. Just address the evidence of the claim. Posts: 2463 | From: New Jersey USA | Registered: Dec 2007
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Nature. 2016 Aug 25; 536(7617): 419–424. doi: 10.1038/nature19310
Genomic insights into the origin of farming in the ancient Near East
A population without Neanderthal admixture, basal to other Eurasians, may have plausibly lived in Africa. Craniometric analyses have suggested an affinity between the Natufians and populations of north or sub-Saharan Africa24,25, a result that finds some support from Y chromosome analysis which shows that the Natufians and successor Levantine Neolithic populations carried haplogroup E, of likely ultimate African origin, which has not been detected in other ancient males from West Eurasia (Supplementary Information, section 6) 7,8. However, no affinity of Natufians to sub-Saharan Africans is evident in our genome-wide analysis, as present-day sub-Saharan Africans do not share more alleles with Natufians than with other ancient Eurasians (Extended Data Table 1).
If this is a response to my last post, then I suggest you read what I wrote again. I never said anything about Natufian genetics, only about their craniometric features in regards to facial reconstruction. Cranial morphology and genomic makeup are two different things. By the way, Lazaridis is correct that in terms of autosomal alleles *present-day sub-Saharan Africans* do not share more alleles with Natufians than other Eurasians, but we don't know about the situation in ancient times much less prehistoric times. Getting back to the issue of cranial morphology, what about the epipaleolithic skeletal remains in Kenya contemporary to that of the Natufians?? Theirs show "caucasoid" morphology, so what do you think their autosomal DNA would tell us? This is why racial typology is a fallacy as well as a deathtrap to Eurocentrics and Afrocentrics who still cling to it.
Posts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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BTW, the Nazlet Khater specimen would be a nice sample to get aDNA from. Would be nice to see if they are more closely related to Upper Nile populations, eastern Saharans like the AE, or some other population. Right now, I'm getting mixed vibes from the craniofacial features and that inner ear examination.
quote:Originally posted by beyoku: Black folk steadily getting played with feelgoodism
Historical feelgoodism is bringing in a lot of money to people who can turn that into for sale pseudo-educational products
Posts: 42919 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Originally posted by beyoku: Black folk steadily getting played with feelgoodism
Historical feelgoodism is bringing in a lot of money to people who can turn that into for sale pseudo- educational products
Euro's have spent the last 250 years on historical propaganda to engender political and geopolitical gains and some, "feelgoodism" for low class poor whites.
Not one ethnic group on the planet has made more money off of ethnocentric feelgoodism than white supremacists.
-------------------- It's not my burden to disabuse the ignorant of their wrong opinions Posts: 2699 | From: New York | Registered: Jun 2015
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@ The Lioness - Why we should burn it all down. @ Yatunde Lisa Bey - IN what way does white folks 250 years of nonsense make us SMARTER? It doesn't. A sound understanding of African archeology and an understanding of human migration grounded in Science is going to make us smarter REGARDLESS of white folks foolishness. Furthermore when they bring their foolishness we will not be ill-equipped to combat it (See Below).
See the video in the OP where the creator speaks of New Kingdom Egyptians being "PURE" Africans while presenting data that doesn't show those said Egyptians to be "PURE" African. The guy speaking DOESNT even know where Abusir IS!
At this point, "DNA Tribes" and "Rameses III E1b1a" is going to be the rebuttal for everything coming down the pipe in the next few years. Abusir, we flailing. Old Kingdom Egyptians similar to Abusir, oof. We in 2023 and these dudes making videos where Ancient Egyptians look like Ghanians. Posts: 2463 | From: New Jersey USA | Registered: Dec 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Thereal: were they 'Negroid'/SSA/Black
Huh? Somalis and Ethiopians are SSA but don't all look like west Africans which is a region.
What exactly do "sub-Saharan "West Africans" look like? The "sub-Saharan" people below are from Ethiopia. Why don't they look like "West Africans"?
-------------------- Note: I am not an "Egyptologist" as claimed by some still bitter, defeated, trolls creating fake profiles and posts elsewhere. Hapless losers, you still fail. My output of hard data debunking racist nonsense has actually INCREASED since you began.. Posts: 5905 | From: The Hammer | Registered: Aug 2008
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. This is a critique of the "Black Egypt" community as a whole which has devolved into trolling, pseudo-science, ethnocentrism, and xenophobia. Why make an article about a Keita publication when Egyptsearch did what Keita did 10 years before he did it? Matter of fact, why make a video about Keita's publication yet still 
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