posted
I had forgotten that before the Vandal, Roman and Arab occupany of Bijaya or modern Bougie in Algeria the area was occupied by the same people that are known in all African histories as Wangarawa, Wangara, Garawa, Jarawa, Ghuara, Jawara,Wakore,Korowa, Gura'an, Garawan.
These Garawan, (Garawa or Jawara) were the people of the Aures and are also known as Teda Guran or Karduwan.
Their Queen was the Kahina. "Al-Kahina had her capital in Bijaya (Bougie) in north-eastern Algeria..." from A History of the Maghrib in the Islamic Period, 1987. Jamil M. Abun-Nasr
Goes to show the extent to which the history of early African people is being distorted by modern European scholarship, and how important it is to be interested in the history of Africa and not just supporting nationalist propaganda.
"The romantic legend of al-Kahina, the Berber queen of the Jarawa tribe of the eastern Aurès Mountains, who led the local tribes of the Sahel in their resistance to the Arab conquest..." p. 147 The Story of the Roman Amphitheatre, 2000 by David Bomgardner
The original Beriberi or al-Berabir were and are black Africans and the Mauri also included the near black Tuareg and Fulani as well.
In case you didn't know it. The Wangara or Wakore were responsible for a large number of kingdoms throughout the Sahel and Sudan including Songhai.
Modern inhabitants of the Sahara are a mixture of these Teda people with the Tuareg and recent Turkish and European strains, as well as slaves from further south.
Songhay chief
Teda girl
Are you really interested in African history?!
Then don't believe their hype! The name Berber 1000 years ago was applied to people that are not always the equivalent of modern Berber-speakers and also was not applied always to people who spoke the Tuareg- related Amazigh dialects.
There is nothing really to argue about when you know your history. Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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posted
Just as the Jarawa or Garawa of Sahel and North Africa are the "Judaized" "Berbers" of North Africa the Garawan or Wangara or Wakore are the gold traders or merchants of Sudan and Sahel whom are often referted to as Jews or Judaized.
Man of Wargla of Ghuwara (or Jarawa) stock
They are the blacks known as al-Barabir. According to scholars, the name Barbara and al-Barabir was attached to the Soninke (Wangara/Wakore) of Dar Tichitt in early Arab sources and Portuguese chronicles (Lewicki, 1988, p. 313).
They are also commonly known as the gold merchants. "The association of those called the Wangara with the interior gold trade of West Africa was known in Medieval times....Al Bakri remarked that the traders were black and ajam, the implication is that they were not speakers of Arabic but were Muslim. Two centuries later in 1352 ibn Battuta met black traders called Wangharata at Zaghari a place to the west of the interior delta of Niger." "Wangara, Akan and Portughese in the Fifteenth and Sixteenth Centuries. Journal of African History 23:3 page 333
The story of the WaKore or Wangara origins is related to that of the Jeter and Jethro son of Aaron, and Korah a descendant of Lei who rebelled against Moses.
"The Tarikh el-Fettach (Houdas & Delafosse 1981), exploiting unknown earlier sources, links the Wangara to the royal Kayamagan dynasty of Ghana—of 22 kings before the Hejra and 22 kings thereafter. It quotes Demir el Yakoub who claims the Songhay, Wakore and Wangara to be descendants of a certain Taras ben Haroun from Yemen, who died and left his sons in the hands of their uncle. They emigrated, and the elder son, Ouakoré-ben-Taras, became ancestor of the Wakore, while the second, Songai-ben-Taras, became ancestor of the Songhay, and the youngest son called Ouangara-ben-Taras became ancestor of the Wangara..." See Baghayogho A Soninke Muslim Diaspora in the Mande World, buy Andreas Massing http://etudesafricaines.revues.org/4850
Zaghari is also called Zaghai by Battuta. see fn 6 of same article
As I have said previously the early Zaghai, Zaghawa, Zawagha Azuwagh, are the Zanata "Berber" people known as Garawan, Jarawa ruling the Aures Massif.
They are the original "Jews" of Wargla and the Mzab region whose descendants Arthur Godbey calls "black as Negroes" ((1930). The lost tribes a myth: Suggestions towards rewriting Hebrew history. Durham, NC: Duke University Press) whom modern fair-skinned Berbers and European geneticists are trying to write out of their heritage and make into "Eurasiatics".
When Taha in his book, Muslim Conquest and Settlement of North Africa and Spain (1988), mentions that a “huge” proportion of the Zenata were in fact a group known as the Jarawa, he is talking of these Africans.
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Most of the Kanuri people commonly called Beri Beri (a Hausa name) live in the Borno province of northeastern Nigeria.They are also located in the Niger, Chad, and Cameroon, and areas around Lake Chad. This region was once the powerful Borno Empire, ruled by the ancestors of the Kanuri. Others can be found in western Sudan.
Béjaïa is a Mediterranean port town on the Gulf of Béjaïa in Algeria; it is the capital of Bejaia Province, Kabylia. Bejaia was first inhabited by Numidian Berbers. A minor port in Carthaginian and Roman times, in roman times Bejaia was then called Saldae, a veteran colony founded by emperor Vespasian (69 AD to 79 AD) of great importance in the province of Mauretania Caesariensis, later in the fraction Sitifensis.
Posts: 42918 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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Most of the Kanuri people commonly called Beri Beri (a Hausa name) live in the Borno province of northeastern Nigeria.They are also located in the Niger, Chad, and Cameroon, and areas around Lake Chad. This region was once the powerful Borno Empire, ruled by the ancestors of the Kanuri. Others can be found in western Sudan.
Béjaïa is a Mediterranean port town on the Gulf of Béjaïa in Algeria; it is the capital of Bejaia Province, Kabylia. Bejaia was first inhabited by Numidian Berbers. A minor port in Carthaginian and Roman times, in roman times Bejaia was then called Saldae, a veteran colony founded by emperor Vespasian (69 AD to 79 AD) of great importance in the province of Mauretania Caesariensis, later in the fraction Sitifensis.
Yes - Berberi is and always has been the name for black Africans of Garawan (or Jarawa) Zaghai stock. This is why it is so funny why people have been claiming Berbers were not black.
After their expulsion by the Romans most Vandals remaining in North AFrica went to Saldae modern day Bejaia or Bougie in Kabylia where they assimilated the Berbers. Vandal women also married Byzantine soldiers settled in north Algeria and Tunisia.(See Bury, J.B. (1923) History of the Later Roman Empire, from the Death of Theodosius I to the Death of Justinian (A.D.395 to A.D. 565); Volume II. Macmillan;pp. 124 and 150; and see De Azurara, Beazley, & Prestage, 1899, The chronicle of the discovery and conquest of Guinea. London: Hakluyt Society. p. 304)
Meanwhile these and other Zanata Berbers (Tuareg clans of Lamtuna and Lamta (Kel Auelimiddden) and Gazula etc) also lived southward and were known as the Numidians.
Most of the Kanuri people commonly called Beri Beri (a Hausa name) live in the Borno province of northeastern Nigeria.They are also located in the Niger, Chad, and Cameroon, and areas around Lake Chad. This region was once the powerful Borno Empire, ruled by the ancestors of the Kanuri. Others can be found in western Sudan.
Béjaïa is a Mediterranean port town on the Gulf of Béjaïa in Algeria; it is the capital of Bejaia Province, Kabylia. Bejaia was first inhabited by Numidian Berbers. A minor port in Carthaginian and Roman times, in roman times Bejaia was then called Saldae, a veteran colony founded by emperor Vespasian (69 AD to 79 AD) of great importance in the province of Mauretania Caesariensis, later in the fraction Sitifensis.
Yes - Berberi is and always has been the name for black Africans of Garawan (or Jarawa) Zaghai stock. This is why it is so funny why people have been claiming Berbers were not black.
The word Beri has no relation to the word Berber
why is the term "Berber" being used ? "Imazighen"is the word they use to identify themselves Dana explain why you don't use this word
barbarian
mid-14c. (adj.), from M.L. barbarinus (cf. O.Fr. barbarin "Berber, pagan, Saracen, barbarian"), from L. barbaria "foreign country," from Gk. barbaros "foreign, strange, ignorant," from PIE base *barbar- echoic of unintelligible speech of foreigners (cf. Skt. barbara- "stammering," also "non-Aryan"). Greek barbaroi (n.) meant "all that are not Greek," but especially the Medes and Persians. Originally not entirely pejorative, its sense darkened after the Persian wars. The Romans (technically themselves barbaroi) took up the word and applied it to tribes or nations which had no Greek or Roman accomplishments. The noun is from late 14c., "person speaking a language different from one's own," also (c.1400) "native of the Barbary coast;" meaning "rude, wild person" is from 1610s. The word barbaros in Ancient Greek was an antonym for civis and polis. The sound of barbaros onomatopoetically evokes the image of babbling (a person speaking a non-Greek language). The Greeks used the term as they encountered scores of different foreign cultures, including the Egyptians, Persians, Medes, Celts, Germans, Phoenicians, Etruscans and Carthaginians. In fact, it became a common term to refer to all foreigners. Plato (Statesman 262de) rejected the Greek–barbarian dichotomy as a logical absurdity on just such grounds: dividing the world into Greeks and non-Greeks told one nothing about the second group The Berbers of North Africa were among the many peoples called "Barbarian" by the Romans; in their case, the name remained in use, having been adopted by the Arabs (see Berber (Etymology)) and is still in use as the name for the non-Arabs in North Africa (though not by themselves). The geographical term Barbary or Barbary Coast, and the name of the Barbary pirates based on that coast (and who were not necessarily Berbers) were also derived from it. The term has also been used to refer to people from Barbary, a region encompassing most of North Africa. The name of the region, Barbary, comes from the Arabic word Barbar, possibly from the Latin word barbaricum, meaning "land of the barbarians".
Posts: 42918 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Originally posted by dana marniche: Just as the Jarawa or Garawa of Sahel and North Africa are the "Judaized" "Berbers" of North Africa the Garawan or Wangara or Wakore are the gold traders or merchants of Sudan and Sahel whom are often referted to as Jews or Judaized.
Man of Wargla of Ghuwara (or Jarawa) stock
They are the blacks known as al-Barabir. According to scholars, the name Barbara and al-Barabir was attached to the Soninke (Wangara/Wakore) of Dar Tichitt in early Arab sources and Portuguese chronicles (Lewicki, 1988, p. 313).
They are also commonly known as the gold merchants. "The association of those called the Wangara with the interior gold trade of West Africa was known in Medieval times....Al Bakri remarked that the traders were black and ajam, the implication is that they were not speakers of Arabic but were Muslim. Two centuries later in 1352 ibn Battuta met black traders called Wangharata at Zaghari a place to the west of the interior delta of Niger." "Wangara, Akan and Portughese in the Fifteenth and Sixteenth Centuries. Journal of African History 23:3 page 333
The story of the WaKore or Wangara origins is related to that of the Jeter and Jethro son of Aaron, and Korah a descendant of Lei who rebelled against Moses.
"The Tarikh el-Fettach (Houdas & Delafosse 1981), exploiting unknown earlier sources, links the Wangara to the royal Kayamagan dynasty of Ghana—of 22 kings before the Hejra and 22 kings thereafter. It quotes Demir el Yakoub who claims the Songhay, Wakore and Wangara to be descendants of a certain Taras ben Haroun from Yemen, who died and left his sons in the hands of their uncle. They emigrated, and the elder son, Ouakoré-ben-Taras, became ancestor of the Wakore, while the second, Songai-ben-Taras, became ancestor of the Songhay, and the youngest son called Ouangara-ben-Taras became ancestor of the Wangara..." See Baghayogho A Soninke Muslim Diaspora in the Mande World, buy Andreas Massing http://etudesafricaines.revues.org/4850
Zaghari is also called Zaghai by Battuta. see fn 6 of same article
As I have said previously the early Zaghai, Zaghawa, Zawagha Azuwagh, are the Zanata "Berber" people known as Garawan, Jarawa ruling the Aures Massif.
They are the original "Jews" of Wargla and the Mzab region whose descendants Arthur Godbey calls "black as Negroes" ((1930). The lost tribes a myth: Suggestions towards rewriting Hebrew history. Durham, NC: Duke University Press) whom modern fair-skinned Berbers and European geneticists are trying to write out of their heritage and make into "Eurasiatics".
When Taha in his book, Muslim Conquest and Settlement of North Africa and Spain (1988), mentions that a “huge” proportion of the Zenata were in fact a group known as the Jarawa, he is talking of these Africans.
Thanks for the new data.
quote:Originally posted by the lioness:
The Berbers of North Africa were among the many peoples called "Barbarian" by the Romans;
This was a very interesting line.
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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posted
So the Songhai and Zaghai are basically the same stock and both are Berbers? but the Songhai are Nilo-Saharan speakers are they not?
Posts: 6546 | From: japan | Registered: Feb 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Brada-Anansi: So the Songhai and Zaghai are basically the same stock and both are Berbers? but the Songhai are Nilo-Saharan speakers are they not?
Askia Muhammad, (1441?-1538), also called Askia I or Askia the Great, ruled the Songhai Empire in western Africa during its height. He was the first of several Songhai kings named Askia. Askia became king in 1493 when he overthrew Bakori Da'a, the son of Sunni Ali. Askia seized large territories from the Mali Empire, conquered the Hausa states, and turned Saharan Berber towns into Songhai colonies. He encouraged the spread of Islam in West Africa and modeled his empire’s laws on those of Islam. His eldest son, Askia Musa, overthrew him in 1528.
Ibn Khladun and Idrisi called the Zaghawa ( Zaghai ) "Berbers" but Mas'udi classes them with Nuba, Beja, "Zing" and "Demadem" under the vague term "Habsha". IN the later half of the 14th century the Zaghawa ( Zaghai ) wer subjugated by the Bulala but little esle is known about their history.
Read this:
Takrur
'Umar Al-Naqar Takrur the History of a Name
The Journal of African History, Vol. 10, No. 3, (1969), pp. 365-374
posted
I was going by the language classifications of Berber and Nilo Saharan but it seems the relation-ship is as complex as was between Kemetic aka Afrasian and the language of the Kushites aka Nilo Saharan, interesting alternative for Bilad al-Sudan was Bilad al-Takrir thanks for the links Lioness.
Posts: 6546 | From: japan | Registered: Feb 2009
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posted
^ From which Arabs does that picture come from? The Arabs who encountered her in life or modern ones who haven't from where the majority of depictions come from?? Ha!
M. Tabli in Revue Tunisienne V.19
"She [Kahina] was, without a doubt, a fearsome woman, half queen, half sorceress, with dark skin, a mass of hair and huge eyes; according to the Arab chroniclers, when she was angry or possessed by her [maggidim] her eyes would turn red and her hair would stand on end."
LOLPosts: 26237 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: ^ From which Arabs does that picture come from? The Arabs who encountered her in life or modern ones who haven't from where the majority of depictions come from?? Ha!
M. Tabli in Revue Tunisienne V.19
"She [Kahina] was, without a doubt, a fearsome woman, half queen, half sorceress, with dark skin, a mass of hair and huge eyes; according to the Arab chroniclers, when she was angry or possessed by her [maggidim] her eyes would turn red and her hair would stand on end."
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: ^ From which Arabs does that picture come from? The Arabs who encountered her in life or modern ones who haven't from where the majority of depictions come from?? Ha!
M. Tabli in Revue Tunisienne V.19
"She [Kahina] was, without a doubt, a fearsome woman, half queen, half sorceress, with dark skin, a mass of hair and huge eyes; according to the Arab chroniclers, when she was angry or possessed by her [maggidim] her eyes would turn red and her hair would stand on end."
LOL
"Ibn Khaldun records many legends about l-Kahna. A number of them refer to her long hair or great size, both legendary characteristics of sorcerers. She is also supposed to have had the gift of prophecy and she had three sons, which is characteristic of witches in legends. Even the fact that two were her own and one was adopted (an Arab officer she had captured), was an alleged trait of sorcerers in tales. Another legend claims that in her youth, she had supposedly freed her people from a tyrant by agreeing to marry him and then murdering him on their wedding night. Virtually nothing else of her personal life is known."
LONG HAIR!
And you thought she rocked ruff n stuff with her afro puffs Lol!
Posts: 682 | From: East Coast | Registered: May 2011
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M. Tabli in Revue Tunisienne V.19 gives this description:
quote: "[She] was, without a doubt, a fearsome woman, half queen, half sorceress, with dark skin, a mass of hair and huge eyes; according to the Arab chroniclers, when she was angry or possessed by her [maggidim] her eyes would turn red and her hair would stand on end."
____________Dahia la Kahena______________ a fearsome woman, half queen, half sorceress, with dark skin. She had a mass of hair that stood uprght, and huge reddened eyes when she was angry or possessed by her maggidiym.
My two illustrations are only fanciful renditions of Dahya by artists of our times namely S. Gaston Dobson from 'A Salute to Historic African Kings and Queens' and Keith Gunderson from 'Wars of the Jews'.
The other illustrations and statue post earlier are just the same, fanciful renditions by artists of our times.
No one knows what la Kahena looked like but we do know she was dark with a mass of hair that grew up and out. Apparently her biology was untouched by any Vandal refugees in the Aures from before her day and age.
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posted
No one knows what la Kahena looked like but we do know she was dark with a mass of hair that grew up and out. Apparently her biology was untouched by any Vandal refugees in the Aures from before her day and age.
How would you know if she had any Vandal ancestry?? You don't. The term dark is relative and it is said she had long hair! If it stood on end when she was angry what happend to it when she was calm?
-------------------- In the vast pasture of life you're bound to step in some truth. Posts: 682 | From: East Coast | Registered: May 2011
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Yes dark IS relative, but relative to whom exactly in the case of Kahina?? Even that painting above, the only thing "dark" about her are her hair and eyes. Her skin is still very light.
If an Arab described someone as dark, you can bet the complexion is deeper than a mere 'tan'!
quote:Originally posted by the lyinass:
^ Yes, Lyinass has it right for once in a blue moon. The woman above a likely candidate for how Kahina looked like.
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