posted
Here's an unusual Sharia Alert, and an interesing insight into the much-ballyhooed high moral standards of Islam, from the most respected institution in the world of Sunni Islam, Cairo's Al-Azhar University. According to an Arabic article in Al-Arabiyya, the Egyptian Parliament is now discussing a fatwa from an Al-Azhar cleric that aims to circumvent the prohibition on a male and a female who are not married to each other from working together in private. All she has to do, you see, is suckle him. Then he becomes her foster child, and they can be together without a chaperone.
This bizarre ruling is based, of course, on Muhammad's (pbuh) words.
'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported that Salim, the freed slave of Abu Hadhaifa, lived with him and his family in their house. She (i. e. the daughter of Suhail came to Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) and said: Salim has attained (purbety) [sic] as men attain, and he understands what they understand, and he enters our house freely, I, however, perceive that something (rankles) in the heart of Abu Hudhaifa, whereupon Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) said to her: Suckle him and you would become unlawful for him, and (the rankling) which Abu Hudhaifa feels in his heart will disappear. She returned and said: So I suckled him, and what (was there) in the heart of Abu Hudhaifa disappeared. (Sahih Muslim 3425)
Muhammad tells the daughter of Suhail to suckle Salim. This will make her unlawful to him, that is, he won't be able to marry her because he will be her foster child. Thus it will be lawful for him to be in the house with her, and Abu Hudhaifa will no longer be angry.
This is a translation of a portion of Al-Arabiyya piece, which notes the controversy over this matter.
The Book Removing the Suspicions
He [Dr. Atiyya, the head of the Hadith Department in Al-Azhar’s Usool El-Din Faculty] added that: They [people who ran a campaign starting three weeks ago against the faculty for this fatwa] attacked a book that was written by Dr. Abdul Muhdi Abdul Qader Abdul Hadi, a Hadith teacher in the Faculty of Usool Al-Deen. The book was titled “Removing the Suspicions from the Sunna of the Prophet”. They said that he is teaching it to his third-year students, and that the book shows proof that the topic of adult suckling is a Sahih [sound, or reliable] Hadith, but that it did not explain these matters properly -- it covered that topic briefly by bringing up the suspicion and responding to it....I brought a sample of the hadiths that they were objecting to, including this hadith in detail so people can understand it. We then said, in short, that scholarly studies should not be brought up in the media outlets, because these outlets only give the final conclusion. This makes it difficult for the general public to understand this concept. Hence, a concept like adult suckling needs to be explained in a large public lecture.
Dr. Izzat Atiyya continued: After we refuted their objection with the solid evidence of the adult suckling hadith, they brought their suspicions with regards to infant suckling. They said that it forbids marriage, however it does not permit being alone with her (khalwah). This is despite the existence of a passage as well on this: When someone entered upon Aisha but she prevented him. So the prophet said, “He is your uncle, so let him enter upon you” And when we said that, they accused Al-Azhar University of lying.
He said that the book of Dr Abdul Mahdi Abdul Qader, which they are attacking, is a study he had conducted at an early stage of his scholarly life. When he now personally teaches some of the suspicions and responds to them, he does not just blindly quote the book. Rather, he prepares for it, and he presents it to his students in a scholarly, simplified manner so they can completely understand its meaning. He asks them to correct some matters that he sees as needing a correction or explanation.
He elaborated: The book served us well, as well as its writer. We have shown that what they are denying is a fundamental from the Sunnah. However, until now there is no independent subject in the scholarly curriculum in the Hadith Department called “Refuting the Suspicions,” which is the title of the book. Nevertheless, we decided that this topic be taught in the next academic year. And until now, we select hadiths that have suspicions, and we explain and respond to them, and the adult suckling hadith was not among those hadiths.
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posted
LOL this is pretty ridiclous. So after I give birth if I let my husband get freaky he all of a sudden becomes my foster son and our relationship is null and void?
Really, sometimes I think these people have nothing better to do, stay out of my bedroom! Posts: 13440 | Registered: Feb 2006
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posted
As they say these words should be interpreted........ U should not take these words literally as these sick wackos have!!! Yes smucks they just want to suck every womans boobs without fear of it looking bad !! So they make this stupid infantil fatwa so they can get away with it at any age !!!!
I'm sorry but this to me does not say let the man suck on your boob so he loses his lusty feelings and in return looks at u like his mother !!! This i would interpret (if i was muslim) try to establish a relationship with this guy (in question) as family (like son) so either of you don't succombe to lusty feelings !!
I really don't agree sucking on boobs would take away lusty feelings it would make them more !!!!!
DIRTY DIRTY OLD MEN !!! LOL Posts: 634 | From: the Moon........... | Registered: Mar 2007
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posted
this is a tragedy ........tragedy that muslims dont realize what kind of deep darkness they are in.........
Posts: 226 | Registered: Mar 2006
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quote:Originally posted by The Conditioned: What the hell kind of weird sh*t is this?
Doesn't a woman have to be lactating in order to suckle someone? And in order to lactate, she has to give birth to a child?
Personally, I think these guys just want to suck on some titties
Atleast they should have the guts to say it out loud, rather than hide behind some hadith
~Alistair
that's hilarious they can make a great missionary campaign by this: Embrace Islam and you will get: -free sucks from all the muslim women in your area -up to 4 wives -have sex with your right hand possessions (slaves, servants...etc) join today and you will get extra fresh virgin for your own pleasure* -get double rights over any woman
*Tax not included, delivery within 15 days in Islamic countries CHEERS Posts: 76 | From: Hurghada | Registered: Mar 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Try2CLight: Jesus said about false prophets:
"You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they? Matthew 7:16
Muslims are harvest the fruits.GB them
very true those verses were going in my head when i was reading the post on top....very funny muslims fail to make any sense out of this insanity ....and they still pretend as if it's nothing...not one muslim is able even to talk about it....it's sickening
Posts: 226 | Registered: Mar 2006
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Are you replying to Al-Azhar or Aiysha Mohammed's wife or the Egyptian Parliament or to yourself..this hadith is from your book and accredited from Al-Azhar and sunna,here is another link from Saudi Islamic ministry site mention this hadith hadith.al-islam.com
So why you think it's hoax or false,don't you pray five times per day based on One hadith..if you are defending this hadith so let start by any lady you know and tell her to perform Prophet Muhammed's advise..don't forget to tell her the right position the man should sit for suckling Posts: 903 | Registered: Aug 2006
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posted
I find it extremely suspicious that this so called fatwa is only being broadcast on this one magazine. I googled it and came up with absolutely nothing. If this were indeed true it would be plastered all over the media in the hopes of once again tarnishing our religion.
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Al-Azhar University, one of Sunni Islam's most prestigious institutions, ordered one of its clerics Monday to face a disciplinary panel after he issued a controversial decree allowing adults to breast-feed.
Ezzat Attiya had issued a fatwa, or religious edict, saying adult men could breast-feed from female work colleagues as a way to avoid breaking Islamic rules that forbid men and women from being alone together.
In Islamic tradition, breast-feeding establishes a degree of maternal relation, even if a woman nurses a child who is not biologically hers. It means the child could not marry the nursing woman's biological children.
Attiya - the head of Al-Azhar's Department of Hadith, or teachings of the Prophet Muhammad - insisted the same would apply with adults. He argued that if a man nursed from a co-worker, it would establish a family bond between them and allow the two to work side-by-side without raising suspicion of an illicit sexual relation.
posted
Lecturer suspended after breastfeeding fatwa
From correspondents in Cairo May 22, 2007 04:47am
CAIRO'S al-Azhar Islamic University has suspended a lecturer who suggested men and women work colleagues could use symbolic breastfeeding to get around a religious ban on being alone together.
The lecturer, Ezzat Atiya, had drawn on Islamic traditions that forbid sexual relations between a man and a woman who has breastfed him to suggest that symbolic breastfeeding could be a way around strict segregation of males and females.
But after controversy in the Egyptian and Middle East media, university president Ahmed el-Tayeb suspended Mr Atiya overnight pending an urgent investigation into his opinions, the Egyptian state news agency MENA reported.
Mr Atiya is the head of the department that deals with sayings of the Prophet Muhammad and the university is part of the al-Azhar institute, one of the most prestigious in Sunni Islam.
Mr Atiya's unusual opinion was widely publicised by Arabic-language satellite television channels and featured in a discussion in the Egyptian parliament.
The Dubai-based channel Al Arabiya quoted him as saying after five breastfeedings the man and woman could be alone together without violating Islamic law and the woman could remove her headscarf to reveal her hair.
But a committee from al-Azhar said his proposal contradicted the principles of Islam and of morality.
Mr Atiya had said he had drawn on medieval scholarship to justify his position. The opposition party newspaper al-Ahrar overnight quoted him as saying he retracted his views because they were based on the opinions of a minority of scholars.
posted
ohhhhhhh im got fatwa boobys NO TOUCH!!hubbys hand is slapped. Gosh where is our faith coming too i hate to udder ..
Posts: 4597 | Registered: Jun 2006
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quote:Originally posted by shahkerdah: ohhhhhhh im got fatwa boobys NO TOUCH!!hubbys hand is slapped. Gosh where is our faith coming too i hate to udder ..
Don't blame the bad fruit but blame the bad Tree.
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posted
What good comes out of Al-Azhar University? I have heard nothing but bizarre and oppressive ideas come out of that place. Supposedly it is the center of higher learning in Egypt. Posts: 3188 | Registered: Feb 2007
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quote:Originally posted by With a name like Smuckers: Lol omg how dramatic...the bad tree?
Snicker....
Do men gather grapes from thorn bushes or figs from thistles? every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit (by Jesus in Matthew 7:15)
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posted
Breastfeeding fatwa continues to provoke criticism
By Newell Blair First Published: May 23, 2007
CAIRO: Religious scholars condemned the breastfeeding fatwa that Sheikh Ezzat Atiya, president of the Hadith (Prophet Mohamed’s (PBUH) Sayings) department at Al-Azhar University, issued last week.
Atiya had drawn on Islamic traditions which forbid sexual relations between a man and a woman who has breastfed him to suggest that symbolic breastfeeding could be a way around strict segregation of males and females.
The ensuing furor led to an apology and retraction from Atiya on Sunday and then his suspension from Al-Azhar and transferal to a disciplinary committee Monday.
“This fatwa is nonsense,” Gamal El Banna, an Islamic intellectual told The Daily Star Egypt.
While clearly indignant about the fatwa, El Banna felt that it was more important to “move on to more important issues” because “this fatwa doesn’t have any importance”.
However, El Banna believes that Atiya should keep his job.
Sheikh Khalid El Gindy, an influential sheikh, concurred.
“Those fatwas are completely unrelated to Islam. They are based on no certified or credible sources,” El Gindy said.
“Al-Azhar has collected all the legal and reliable hadiths and kept them at the Al Azhar institution,” he added.
El Gindy also told The Daily Star Egypt, frustrated, that Al Azhar has announced so many times that fatwas like these should not be released to the public.
“Al-Azhar has held many seminars and lectures about the harms of these fallacious fatwas on the mentality of the people, but obviously some people don’t care about all that and they are unaware of the negative consequences which follow the release of such fatwas,” El Gindy said.
Last week Atiya had told Al-Arabiya, a Dubai-based media channel, that after five breastfeeding sessions the man became a symbolic relative of the woman and the two were allowed to be alone together and the women could remove her headscarf in his presence.
In his apology, Atiya stated that breastfeeding a male colleague at work is reserved only for a special situation and that only a minority of scholars had supported this position.
The storm of criticism, fed by wide coverage on Arab media channels, reached all the way up to the People’s Assembly (PA) where around 50 members discussed submitting an investigative questioning last Wednesday, as reported by Al-Arabiya website .
The PA decided instead to give Al-Azhar a chance to retract the fatwa itself, hoping this would lower the media attention on the issue because they felt it was detrimental to Al-Azhar and Islam’s image.
The controversial fatwa comes on the heels of another controversial claim in a book published by Ali Gomaa, Egypt’s GrandMufti, which declared that the Prophet's companions used to drink the his urine, considering it a blessed act, reported Al-Masry Al-Youm newspaper.
According to Al-Masry Al-Youm newspaper, Gomaa stuck to his position despite criticism, claiming that everything which emanated from the Prophet [PBUH] is pure and sacred.
" The controversial fatwa comes on the heels of another controversial claim in a book published by Ali Gomaa, Egypt’s GrandMufti, which declared that the Prophet's companions used to drink the his urine, considering it a blessed act, reported Al-Masry Al-Youm newspaper."
Now did anyone hear about this???? Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
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posted
Al-Bukhari Volume 7, Book 71, Number 590: Narrated Anas:
The climate of Medina did not suit some people, so the Prophet ordered them to follow his shepherd, i.e. his camels, and drink their milk and urine (as a medicine). So they followed the shepherd that is the camels and drank their milk and urine till their bodies became healthy. Then they killed the shepherd and drove away the camels. When the news reached the Prophet he sent some people in their pursuit. When they were brought, he cut their hands and feet and their eyes were branded with heated pieces of iron.
Hadith Prophet Muhammed always behind...
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quote:Originally posted by Try2CLight: Al-Bukhari Volume 7, Book 71, Number 590: Narrated Anas:
The climate of Medina did not suit some people, so the Prophet ordered them to follow his shepherd, i.e. his camels, and drink their milk and urine (as a medicine). So they followed the shepherd that is the camels and drank their milk and urine till their bodies became healthy. Then they killed the shepherd and drove away the camels. When the news reached the Prophet he sent some people in their pursuit. When they were brought, he cut their hands and feet and their eyes were branded with heated pieces of iron.
posted
What I don't understand on this case is the fact that before a fatwa gets officially announced it has to be brought up to the commitee of Al Azhar University and the highest-ranking scholars have to agree on it. Seems like they don't have a proper system in place.
Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Tigerlily: What I don't understand on this case is the fact that before a fatwa gets officially announced it has to be brought up to the commitee of Al Azhar University and the highest-ranking scholars have to agree on it. Seems like they don't have a proper system in place.
what is your opinion about hadith Albukhari above on Camel's urine (as a medicine).
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posted
Al Azhar is in no way, a holly institution, it is only a man made collective of ill educated students who failed to get into mainstream education because of there bad grades, Instead of getting high grades on the his highschool exam and get into one of the top collages in Egypt, instead they can join the Azhar, and become LEADERS to every one,
the fatwa being discussed in this thread is solo idiotic, it only shows the ill logic and limited understanding of any religion by this (so called) Imam, for me he isn’t an Imam, he is only an (AZHAR GRADUATE) (a dumb stupid kid who didn’t understand math, physics, science, chemistry in school, could only memories some old books and role up his eyes when he speaks) This (SMARTASS) forgot that although breast feeding would make the woman that does the breast feeding almost like a mother, and the infant who suckle from her becomes unlawful to her or her daughters, or even another girl that suckled with him, this fatwa ignored a or neglected something else, this is only when she breast feed a baby, who needs suckling, not when he is a grown adult, who isnt suppose to touch a woman that is unloafull to him, ( wow SUCKLE of her ???)
what this idiot described is a scene from a sheep porn movie, where an idiot would order his wife to step naked in front of the HELP, or to her coworkers and let them nibble on her nipples, this so called imam, must enjoy (WATCHING) Yuck Yuck Yuck, they have another name for this illness m, they call it "freaking SICK" What an EDIOT, what an imbecile,
ائمة يدعون الي النار
Posts: 785 | From: Cairo, Egypt | Registered: Aug 2004
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quote:Originally posted by welsafty: Al Azhar is in no way, a holly institution, it is only a man made collective of ill educated students who failed to get into mainstream education because of there bad grades, Instead of getting high grades on the his highschool exam and get into one of the top collages in Egypt, instead they can join the Azhar, and become LEADERS to every one,
the fatwa being discussed in this thread is solo idiotic, it only shows the ill logic and limited understanding of any religion by this (so called) Imam, for me he isn’t an Imam, he is only an (AZHAR GRADUATE) (a dumb stupid kid who didn’t understand math, physics, science, chemistry in school, could only memories some old books and role up his eyes when he speaks) This (SMARTASS) forgot that although breast feeding would make the woman that does the breast feeding almost like a mother, and the infant who suckle from her becomes unlawful to her or her daughters, or even another girl that suckled with him, this fatwa ignored a or neglected something else, this is only when she breast feed a baby, who needs suckling, not when he is a grown adult, who isnt suppose to touch a woman that is unloafull to him, ( wow SUCKLE of her ???)
what this idiot described is a scene from a sheep porn movie, where an idiot would order his wife to step naked in front of the HELP, or to her coworkers and let them nibble on her nipples, this so called imam, must enjoy (WATCHING) Yuck Yuck Yuck, they have another name for this illness m, they call it "freaking SICK" What an EDIOT, what an imbecile,
ائمة يدعون الي النار
hey why do you blame him so much, I think this man was doing his job alright...he didn't invent these things obviously he only took what was in official muslim books and demonstrated it to people Posts: 226 | Registered: Mar 2006
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quote:Originally posted by welsafty: what this idiot described is a scene from a sheep porn movie, where an idiot would order his wife to step naked in front of the HELP, or to her coworkers and let them nibble on her nipples, this so called imam, must enjoy (WATCHING) Yuck Yuck Yuck, they have another name for this illness m, they call it "freaking SICK" What an EDIOT, what an imbecile,
why you blame the Shaikh blame the prophet...
حدثنا هشام بن عمار حدثنا سفيان بن عيينة عن عبد الرحمن بن القاسم عن أبيه عن عائشة قالت جاءت سهلة بنت سهيل إلى النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم فقالت يا رسول الله إني أرى في وجه أبي حذيفة الكراهية من دخول سالم علي فقال النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم أرضعيه قالت كيف أرضعه وهو رجل كبير فتبسم رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم وقال قد علمت أنه رجل كبير ففعلت فأتت النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم فقالت ما رأيت في وجه أبي حذيفة شيئا أكرهه بعد وكان شهد بدرا Hadith.al-islam.com
what about this sura in Quran 33:50 " Any believing woman who dedicates herself to the Prophet if the Prophet wishes to coitus her; this only for thee, and not for the Believers (at large)" وَامْرَأَةً مُّؤْمِنَةً إِن وَهَبَتْ نَفْسَهَا لِلنَّبِيِّ إِنْ أَرَادَ النَّبِيُّ أَن يَسْتَنكِحَهَا خَالِصَةً لَّكَ مِن دُونِ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ Isn't a permission for adultery to the prophet?!!
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posted
everything possible in egypt , this mufti can give fatwa that mubarak`s urine is sacred too ,what this ignorant mufti said about feeding breasts to adult or urine is bullshit and ignorant and pathetic
Posts: 384 | From: cairo | Registered: Mar 2007
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quote:Originally posted by welsafty: this is a lie.
And who is welsafty to say this hadith is a lie,give us a proof,this hadith is mention in Sahih Bukhari,Muslim and sonan Ibn Majah are all these Hadiths Scholars liars?..and why the Saudi Islamic Minister site put untrue hadith? don't do like Ostrich .
Posts: 903 | Registered: Aug 2006
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quote:Originally posted by egyptian999: if prophet muhammed heard this fatw he will be soo pissed
why he will get angry although he was enjoying women everyday according to Hadith Albukhari
حدثنا مسدد حدثنا يزيد بن زريع حدثنا سعيد عن قتادة عن أنس رضي الله عنه أن النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم كان يطوف على نسائه في ليلة واحدة وله تسع نسوة source Hadith.al-islam.com
"The prophet was roaming on his NINE women in One night"
Get this Sahih Hadith too حدثنا محمد بن سلام حدثنا ابن فضيل حدثنا هشام عن أبيه قال كانت خولة بنت حكيم من اللائي وهبن أنفسهن للنبي صلى الله عليه وسلم فقالت عائشة أما تستحي المرأة أن تهب نفسها للرجل فلما نزلت ترجئ من تشاء منهن" " قلت يا رسول الله ما أرى ربك إلا يسارع في هواك
According to sura 33:50 that Muhammed claimed it's a god's permission to him for coitus any woman so "Khawla bint Hakim" dedicated herself to the prophet according to the License of the verse mentioned above so Aiysha Muhammed's wife told him "I only see that your God hasten in your passion"
So sure prophet Muhammed wouldn't get angry from adult suckling hadith...I don't know if "prophet" word is in the rigth place.
Posts: 903 | Registered: Aug 2006
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posted
Mufti Ali Gomaa calls for restrictions on issuing fatwas
By Yasmine Saleh First Published: May 27, 2007
CAIRO: Ali Gomaa, Egypt's top Mufti, requested that all Islamic institutions put a unified standard to which all sheikhs in the world should adhere, when it comes to issuing fatwas, reported Al-Ahram Daily newspaper.
Gomaa made the request three days ago during a conference that brought together members of Dar El Ift (house of fatwa, religious edicts) yesterday in Kuwait.
The conference, titled "Issuing Fatwas in the Open World," is expected to run for three days, said Al-Ahram.
Gomaa himself is the author of a controversial book which claimed that Prophet Mohammed’s (PBUH) companions used to drink his urine, considering it a blessed act, as reported by Al-Masry Al-Youm newspaper.
Gomaa stuck to his position despite criticism, claiming that everything which emanated from the Prophet is pure and sacred.
“We hope that we will no longer have to see another fake and incorrect fatwa similar to those that have been released recently about breastfeeding adult men and the Prophet's Mohammed’s (PBUH) urine,” Sheikh Mohmoud Ashour, former deputy of Al Azhar and member of the Islamic Research Center, told The Daily Star Egypt.
"If implemented properly [Gomaa’s recommendation] will prevent fatwas from becoming a business not a science as it should be," Ashour said pointing to the sheikhs who appear on TV and profit from making controversial and incorrect fatwas.
"A person who issues a fatwa should be qualified to do so. He should be honest and careful with every fatwa he releases," Ashour said.
Gomaa's request came a week after Sheikh Ezzat Atiya, president of the Hadith (Prophet Mohamed’s (PBUH) Sayings) department at Al-Azhar University, issued the breastfeeding fatwa in which he had drawn on Islamic traditions which forbid sexual relations between a men and a women who had breastfed him, to suggest that symbolic breastfeeding could be a way round the strict segregation of males and females.
The resultant controversy led to an apology and withdrawal from Atiya that was followed by Al-Azhar’s decision to suspend him and refer him to a disciplinary committee.
The storm of criticism, fed by wide coverage on Arab media channels, reached all the way up to the People’s Assembly (PA) where around 50 members discussed submitting an investigative questioning, as reported by Al-Arabiya website.
The PA decided instead to give Al-Azhar a chance to retract the fatwa itself, in hopes it would divert the media attention from the issue because they felt it was detrimental to Al-Azhar and Islam’s image.
quote:Originally posted by Try2CLight: Jesus said about false prophets:
"You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they? Matthew 7:16
Muslims are harvest the fruits.GB them
very true those verses were going in my head when i was reading the post on top....very funny muslims fail to make any sense out of this insanity ....and they still pretend as if it's nothing...not one muslim is able even to talk about it....it's sickening
Are you kidding me? everyone rejected this..... it just doesnt make any sense
Posts: 3128 | From: Not Your Heaven | Registered: Sep 2006
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posted
I agree with Murray, the problem is a bunch of old dirty perverts who then try to pervert religious laws.
Posts: 26286 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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....and they still pretend as if it's nothing...not one muslim is able even to talk about it....it's sickening
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