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Author Topic: a return to american values
Hammer
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This election is a clear return to american values, a return to the values that made us a great nation in the first place. Small and limited government, low taxes, deregulation that keeps the government off the back of small businessmen.

Women voted republican this time in record numbers as did seniors. The new House has a clear charge from the voters to destroy this insane health care bill and shrink the federal government. The work on all this begins today.

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Grumman
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Some analysts believe the Reagan-era deregulations started the ball moving toward the mess we see today.

Can you see a huge number of white Americans whom are ill and appreciate the health care changes now saying no we don't need the new system at all, we want the old way back? If the republicans do manage to rework the entire system then they will have two more years to think about it until they are replaced.

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Hammer
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well the Republicans will get rid of the health care bill. i really think the courts will do that for them. Clearly the bill has serious constitutional problems.

I think the will use private sector incentives to reform the system. Europe is finding out now the limitations of the Nanny state.

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The tree of liberty is watered by the blood of tyrants.

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Grumman
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Do you think the republicans will try and dismantle it *because* of constitutional concerns or that a few percentages over 50% of the American public aren't interested in helping those less fortunate?
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Hammer
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humm, well the courts will deal with the constitutional side of it. 20 states are in court now challenging the constitutionality of the law. That case will play out over the next year.
As for the republicans in congress the answer to your question is ...both. Voters put them in office to gut the bill. Many of the new republicans are small government types, much more so than in the past. they see what is happening in the UK and Europe and that we cannot go down that road.
If they refuse to fight obama it would mean the end of the republican party. Many conservatives were very unhappy with the spending during the Bush administration. I think the party understands what it has to do.

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The tree of liberty is watered by the blood of tyrants.

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IronLion
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^^Obama is still the President and Boss of the United States. Get over it sucker!

All else is political gamemanship.

Lion!

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Lionz

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Hammer
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President's are not Boss in America. All spending bills have to be introduced in the House of Rep. he has no control over that.
The new Hpousen will simply refuse to fun many of his programs ad will not pass new programs he wants. There is nothing he can do about it.

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IronLion
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Hammer, you are simple. Follow the money that funded the elections:

Tuesday's election will be remembered not only for the historic losses by the Democratic Party in the House, but also the unprecedented amount of outside spending that poured into races, thanks to the Supreme Court's landmark Citizen United decision. Indeed, Democratic Congressional Committee Chairman Chris Van Hollen attributed the GOP wave in part to the "record amount of secret money spent by right-wing outside groups turned this political storm into a category 3 political hurricane."

........................................

The bulk of outside spending this election came from just 10 powerful groups like the Chamber, American Crossroads, and the American Action Network. From these groups, money spent on behalf of Republicans outspent money for Democrats by $79.4 million to $28.5 million.

Overall, 59.9 percent of the outside funds in this election came from undisclosed sources, according to Public Citizen. As The Huffington Post reported, even when organizations did reveal their donors, it would end up being just one or two donors -- essentially a way for wealthy contributors to skirt federal giving limits.

The issue of outside spending campaigns isn't likely to go away just because the midterms are over.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/11/03/outside-spending-election-boosted-public-citizen_n_778482.html

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Lionz

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IronLion
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^^It is just the CORPORATIONS playing merry-go round with simple minded Americans like Hammer-head.

America is a facist state ruled by a few elites through their corporations.

The government is just a window-dressing to legitimize while obfuscating the sordid nature of the American facist political system.

Obama as well as your congress are all bought and paid.

And the simple minded Americans like you will be lulled into a fantasy of being able to influence change.

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Lionz

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MelaninKing
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That's right IronLion.
Amazing a young guy like yourself is wiser then an old rusty geezer like Hammer. I thought age made you wiser, but in this case, obviously the reverse.

Any fool believing that deregulation is a good thing is far over his/her head in the real world.
Remember when Ronald "McDonalds" Reagan said that wealthy Americans would step up and replace what would be lost by Welfare reform? That was an even bigger lie then Bush's WMDs.

As they say; Those who can't, teach.

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Hammer
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Iron, We cannot have a rational conversation if you are just going to babble mindless anti american nonsense.

First, both parties, including the President recieve massive amounts of money from big business as well as other sources. The courts have ruled that contributions to a political campaign cannot be seriously restricted because that would e a violation of free speech.

Back to our topic. When any President loses his base in Congress he loses a great deal of his power. The Republicans will now literally control spending in America, not the President.

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D_Oro
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This President gave away his power by succumb to the bipartisan ideology with a group who willing destroys our country for the good of the corporation.

Sorry Hammer but you, friend, vote against your own best interest for the false promise of keeping a few extra dollars in your pocket.

IronLion, I am sorry to say that America is becoming more and more a fascist country. Once we get a few more corporate judges on the Supreme Court we will be good to go. Until then, I feel there is still hope to turn around.

One big problem is those who have drank the kool-aid and get all of their news from FOX. FOX news has 4 paid contributors who are Republican presidential hopefuls. hmmmm, what do ya think about that?

I am against all of the money being spent on political campaigns. There should be a system where everyone has the same playing field and we judge by the issues, by debates, and only by fact. It is becoming a popularity contest. Look at Bush, obviously not the sharpest tool in the shed, but he won the presidential election over Kerry by getting his group to chant two words which were incorrect..... "flip-flop".

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www.cafepress.com/tahrir_square

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Hammer
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so Gold, based on your view the public was smart and enlightened in 2008 but now they are stupid koolaide drinkers who are managed by fox. Please.

Obama and the dems are wall street kings. Fascists? Really? Most of us are small government types, that is what the Tea Party is all about. Small government conservatives are exactly the opposite of Fascism.

All you can do is tell people how stupid they are, that is all I ever hear from you. That is the liberal MO in every election.

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The tree of liberty is watered by the blood of tyrants.

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D_Oro
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No, The public was fed up in 2008 and they are still fed up. They wanted change and the Obama admin has been to slow (for what ever reason) in delivering that change so they basically.... "flip-flop".

quote:
posted by Hammer
"All you can do is tell people how stupid they are, that is all I ever hear from you. That is the liberal MO in every election."

Really???
Thats all I can do?
Thats all you hear???
Thanks for proving my point. [Wink]

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D_Oro
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quote:
Originally posted by Hammer:

Obama and the dems are wall street kings. Fascists? Really? Most of us are small government types, that is what the Tea Party is all about. Small government conservatives are exactly the opposite of Fascism.

I understand this. You don't want no stink-en regulations on your small business... like bp and Halliburton.


New House Leaders Have Familiar Ties to Business, Revolving Door

How nice for them.... No Conflict of Interest here: [Big Grin]

The Republican takeover of Congress not only apparently gives the Speaker's gavel to John Boehner, it also elevates up to 25 senior GOP lawmakers to the roles of committee chairs. And while it may be a few weeks before it becomes clear which members will lead which panels, a Center for Public Integrity examination finds there are some common ties that bind the likely leaders of the 11 committees with the most domestic spending and policy clout.

First, the top contenders are all men. Nearly all are white. Most have deep ties to the business community or the industries they will soon oversee. Some have former staffers who now work in the lobbying world and could seek influence before their committees. And many have gotten the lion's share of their campaign monies the past two election cycles from special interest political action committees.

The Center's examination focused on those likely to chair the House panels on appropriations, armed services, budget, education and labor, energy and commerce, financial services, homeland security, natural resources, oversight and government reform, transportation and infrastructure, and ways and means. The Center also included the powerful appropriations defense subcommittee -- the panel examined in its 2009 The Murtha Method investigation.


In many ways, the likely Republican chairs don't look much different than the Democratic counterparts they are replacing. The 11 current Democratic chairmen of the committees are also all men, though two are black.

But that's where the similarities end. The new GOP leaders tend to be more conservative than the average House Republican. They are generally strongly pro-business, and have significant ties to industry.

Eight of the 14 candidates for the committee chairs got the majority of their campaign funds since 2007 from special interest PACs. For instance, Rep. Joe Barton of Texas, a possible candidate for the Energy and Commerce committee, got 70 percent of the $4.8 million he raised since 2007 from PACs.

Likewise, Rep. David Camp of Michigan, the top contender for the Ways and Means Committee that controls taxes and spending, got a whopping 79 percent of the $6.5 million he collected in the last two elections from political action committees.

Many lawmakers also have ties to Washington's revolving door -- through which Congressional staff leave for lucrative lobbying jobs in the private sector, where they can cash in on their access and ties.

For instance, Reps. C.W. "Bill" Young and Fred Upton are among the lawmakers who have former staffers that currently lobby for interests that fall under the jurisdiction of the committee they would chair.

Our profiles include (where appropriate):
Top PAC Contributors: Using data from subscription-only CQ MoneyLine, we examined contributions from political action committees in the 2007-2008 and 2009-2010 (reported so far) election cycles to the would-be chairmen's campaign committee and leadership PAC, if any

Revolving Door: Former staffers who are now registered lobbyists

Earmarks: Requests for earmarks obtained by member in the 2008, 2009, and 2010 budgets, according to the databases provided by Taxpayers for Common Sense

Stimulus Letters: Requests obtained by the Center for Public Integrity for stimulus funds to go to favored Transportation, Commerce, and Energy Department projects
Ethical Issues: Any significant ethical questions the member has previously faced

Campaign Promises: Pledges or other hints of what the member's priorities would be as chairman of the relevant committee

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IronLion
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quote:
Originally posted by MelaninKing:
That's right IronLion.
Amazing a young guy like yourself is wiser then an old rusty geezer like Hammer. I thought age made you wiser, but in this case, obviously the reverse.
..

MK

I am not exactly a young man myself, having spent many years on this earth and garnered much experiences. [Big Grin]

That is why I will not hesistate to continue to correct Hammer, where he likes it or not.

Lion!

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-Just Call Me Jari-
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quote:
Originally posted by Grumman:
Do you think the republicans will try and dismantle it *because* of constitutional concerns or that a few percentages over 50% of the American public aren't interested in helping those less fortunate?

Gruman trust me when I say this, the Health Care Bill was the best thing to happen to the Corporations, No Public Option, No real regulation and a mandatory THAT WE HAVE TO GET HEALTH CARE...LOL, They will dismantle it to appease their stupid White Redneck followers and will KEEP the Mandate..

bet 600 bucks the Republicans Keep the mandate.

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-Just Call Me Jari-
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quote:
Originally posted by IronLion:
^^Obama is still the President and Boss of the United States. Get over it sucker!

All else is political gamemanship.

Lion!

Do you think Obama is gonna get a second term?? I don't know but I see a Republican President in 2012..The Populist goal for the conservatives is too blame Obama while blocking his efforts to help the nation, No Bipartisan, nothing. The Economy might get worse and Obama is gonna be blamed.
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MelaninKing
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Naw. He doesn't stand a chance of re-election, mainly because he doesn't deserve it. So far, Obama has been as much as an embarrassment to black men as Michael Steel. He is simply one of the most wimpish black men I have ever seen.

Instead of prosecuting Bush and Cheney for war crimes and being traitors to the US, he let them off the hook.
The majority of Americans want to see Bush & company face penalties for their sins.

Instead of getting strong and roughing up the Racist GOP, he laughs off and turns the other cheek when they call him Nigar.
Black men want to see him rough these bastards up.

Instead of helping homeowners stay in their homes he allows banks to continue their Fraud and Security violations unimpeded, with huge bonuses no less.
The public wants to see these CEOs, CFOs, and Board Of Directors do some serious jail time, or at least some form of appropriate punishment.
Instead of throwing banking and Wall Street crooks in the place they truly belong, Jail, he's offered that these crooks magically rehabilitate themselves as well as police themselves. Right!

Let's not forget the Federal Reserve and Obama's continuance of their unabated and unaccountable plundering of the US treasury.

At this point, Obama looks less of a man then even Mitch McConnell, and that's about as low as any man, especially a black man can go.

No surprise. I knew Obama was a wimp when he threw his Pastor Rev. Wright under the bus to appease white fear.

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Hammer
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Jari, the Republians cannot keep the mandate. That is the number one thing their voters want them to get rid of. In addition the courts may well decide the issue for them. The good part for us is that if the mandate goes the whole bill goes. The mandate is the thing that holds it together. Harry Reid is already startig to back up a bit on the Health Care bill. i am confident we can get rid of it, we'll see.

As for 2012 it is way too early to tell. Look how much things can change in two years.

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Grumman
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D oro:

''Sorry Hammer but you, friend, vote against your own best interest for the false promise of keeping a few extra dollars in your pocket.''

There's a ring of truth to that. Or maybe Hammer harbors sentiments like many of the majority in this country who don't see the need to help those less fortunate than themselves.

Just call me Jari:

''Do you think Obama is gonna get a second term??''

If the economy turns around considerably then yes he will get reelected. If unemployment hovers around 8% or 9%, no. Then you will see a republican president. Which proves one thing; the economy is too big for any party in this country. No one is control of the whole show. You set one counter-measure to jobs being lost, it backfires someplace else. The list goes on.

More importantly if I was Mrs. Obama I would say to Mr. Obama I will put my foot in your ass if you even *think* about running for president again.

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IronLion
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quote:
Originally posted by MelaninKing:
Naw.......
I knew Obama was a wimp when he threw his Pastor Rev. Wright under the bus to appease white fear.

Prophet Jeremiah was (W)-right all along!
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-Just Call Me Jari-
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quote:
Originally posted by Hammer:
Jari, the Republians cannot keep the mandate. That is the number one thing their voters want them to get rid of. In addition the courts may well decide the issue for them. The good part for us is that if the mandate goes the whole bill goes. The mandate is the thing that holds it together. Harry Reid is already startig to back up a bit on the Health Care bill. i am confident we can get rid of it, we'll see.

As for 2012 it is way too early to tell. Look how much things can change in two years.

LMAO, You really think Republicans care about their Base..LOOOOL, Majority of Voters including Republicans were FOR ending Tax Cuts for Outsourcing Companies as the Tax Cuts are going to Non Americans...Guess who blocked that bill??-Republicans.

I personally hope they get rid of the Mandate because the Health care is useless anyway without the public option.

Like I said the republicans are gonna block Obama and when the country gets worse, Republicans will blame him in 2012, 6 years of Republican control, 6 years of hell.

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Grumman
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Melaninking:

''Instead of prosecuting Bush and Cheney for war crimes and being traitors to the US, he let them off the hook. The majority of Americans want to see Bush & company face penalties for their sins.''

I guess I missed something on that one. Are you saying Bush and Cheney had charges of ''war crimes'' brought against them and Mr. Obama threw them out? And you are leaving Wolfowitz, Douglas Feith and a couple of others out of the picture. Those guys talked Bush and Cheney into invading Iraq or so I read several years back.

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-Just Call Me Jari-
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quote:
Originally posted by Grumman:
D oro:

''Sorry Hammer but you, friend, vote against your own best interest for the false promise of keeping a few extra dollars in your pocket.''

There's a ring of truth to that. Or maybe Hammer harbors sentiments like many of the majority in this country who don't see the need to help those less fortunate than themselves.

Just call me Jari:

''Do you think Obama is gonna get a second term??''

If the economy turns around considerably then yes he will get reelected. If unemployment hovers around 8% or 9%, no. Then you will see a republican president. Which proves one thing; the economy is too big for any party in this country. No one is control of the whole show. You set one counter-measure to jobs being lost, it backfires someplace else. The list goes on.

More importantly if I was Mrs. Obama I would say to Mr. Obama I will put my foot in your ass if you even *think* about running for president again.

Exactly my sentiment, If I was Obama's wife I'd divorce him if he ran again and take the children. The Disrespect toward Obama, calling Him a Monkey with some cops shooting him in a cartoon, attacking his wife, praying that he dies and his wife and children loose their Father, the Tea Party Racist protests..Obama has thick skin but there is no reason for him to endure more years of disrespect @ the hands of a racist nation.
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Grumman
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-Just Call Me Jari-
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^^^
and.....

if I was Obama I would not run, its obvious anything he does will be met with resentment, If Obama can't connect with the American People, what is the point of being President. His Medium brown skin is a major factor in the hatred against him..

then he turns around and abandons and insults the Progressive base that supports him. Alot of Progressives are now seeking a 3rd party system, The Green Party perhaps.

However people see the Green Party as the Liberal version of the Libertarians..

I don't know much as of yet, but I see a split in the Democratic base as many Democrat voters are PISSED OFF, at Obama insulting his base and being in bed with the Republicans..and at the Loss of the House and seats in the Senate, at how the Democratic Leaders played Bipartisan,, which will only contribute to a Republican President in 2012

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Grumman
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Yes. I wouldn't give a good f..k if employment was zero in 2012. I would tell them all to kiss my ass.
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-Just Call Me Jari-
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If that happens the Republicans in the House and Senate will take credit for it and say it was THEIR people who turned the unemployment around.

You don't understand yet, but you will..Bayner/Boyner(or how ever you spell it) already made it clear that despite having control of the House "Obama is still in Control"..basically if things go wrong Blame Obama..if they go right take credit...

how do you think they had so much support in the Mid Terms, they blocked and Fillabustered and let the country stagnate and blamed Obama, when in fact Obama had nothing to do with unemployment and HE SAVED G.M and saved JOBS AT G.M with the Cash for Clunkers..

just wait and see in 2012...

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Hammer
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you do understand jari that GM took the money they got from the dems (to save jobs) and built a new plant in Mexico.

I oppose Obama because I am a small government conservative...period. I understand that not every republicn is ethical, that goes without saying. This new crop we have coming in more ideologically driven and I am confident we will see more small government , lower tax policies put in place. If not I'll vote fot the Whigs or the Figs or whoever next time.

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IronLion
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quote:
Originally posted by Just call me Jari:
quote:
Originally posted by IronLion:
^^Obama is still the President and Boss of the United States. Get over it sucker!

All else is political gamemanship.

Lion!

Do you think Obama is gonna get a second term?? I don't know but I see a Republican President in 2012..The Populist goal for the conservatives is too blame Obama while blocking his efforts to help the nation, No Bipartisan, nothing. The Economy might get worse and Obama is gonna be blamed.
If he mans up maybe he can make it for
a second term. There is noone in the
Repuglican ranks that can face off to Obama.

He has the incumbency advantage, going for him
and a lot of incompetent old pink fools against him.

He is prolly gonna win again. Good for the elites, good for business, good for illuminati.

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-Just Call Me Jari-
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quote:
Originally posted by Hammer:
you do understand jari that GM took the money they got from the dems (to save jobs) and built a new plant in Mexico.

I oppose Obama because I am a small government conservative...period. I understand that not every republicn is ethical, that goes without saying. This new crop we have coming in more ideologically driven and I am confident we will see more small government , lower tax policies put in place. If not I'll vote fot the Whigs or the Figs or whoever next time.

Hammer, I have no problem with GM setting up shop in Mexico or any company for that matter, are you not a capitalist Hammer?? All Im saying is GM and other companies that out source Should pay HIGHER Taxes if they oursource jobs,

Does that make any sense?? Does blocking a bill to Tax Companies that outsource make sense??

Don't you agree, if so why did the Republicans block the Bill for higher taxes on Companies that outsource, even GM would be paying that money back.

Second, The Republicans in the House that won the Election took money from bailed out Compaines and Banks Like GM, so save the populist rhetoric.

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-Just Call Me Jari-
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quote:
Originally posted by Hammer:
you do understand jari that GM took the money they got from the dems (to save jobs) and built a new plant in Mexico.

I oppose Obama because I am a small government conservative...period. I understand that not every republicn is ethical, that goes without saying. This new crop we have coming in more ideologically driven and I am confident we will see more small government , lower tax policies put in place. If not I'll vote fot the Whigs or the Figs or whoever next time.

O.K so you say that GM took that extra money they made and set up shop in Mexico, So do you understand NOW why Tax Cuts for the rich as a disaster, It creates Jobs but OUTSIDE OF AMERICA..G.M a Perfect example..

are you starting to understand??

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Hammer
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The populist rhetoric is my personal point of view jari. None of us live in a perfect world and both parties have been up to their nonses in big business money. i think you are going to see a different twist from the new guys coming in.
The Republicans are getting a second chance from their own voters. Many of us were not happy with the party during the past few years. We'll see how they do.

--------------------
The tree of liberty is watered by the blood of tyrants.

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-Just Call Me Jari-
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Really Hammer I think that Conservatives like the Tea Party and Progressives have a lot in common, Despite what Fox News Says we don't want Big Government(Just for the Gov. to do its Job).., me personally Im anti-Corporatist and I have no problem with Small Bis., I think we have alot in common here and I respect you for that..and yes BOTH parties are to blame...

Hopefully the Republicans and Democrats can do something and learn from the mid Term Election that their Base, the American People, Their Voters are Sick and Tired of the Pony show, Im on the verge of not voting democrat again if they don't get it together...

Hopefully you are right these new Republicans can do something, but its hard to see good Progressives like Feingold who voted against the patriot act and Grayson who exposed the Fed.gone.

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Hammer
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Watch James White here in texas. Many know he is a rising star. he is a black Conservative (ayn Rand stripe) and was just elected to the State House in EAST TEXAS of all places. He is a former army officer, has a PHD in Political science and gives a thundering speech.

--------------------
The tree of liberty is watered by the blood of tyrants.

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chanel123
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IronLion
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quote:
Originally posted by Hammer:
Watch James White here in texas. Many know he is a rising star. he is a black Conservative (ayn Rand stripe) and was just elected to the State House in EAST TEXAS of all places. He is a former army officer, has a PHD in Political science and gives a thundering speech.

James White will be the last President
of the United States of America! [Big Grin]

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