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Author Topic: Cultural connections between Ethiopia & AE
Yom
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quote:
Originally posted by Habari:
Agluzinha, are you Yom?

No. Didn't you see we were having a conversation?


quote:
Originally posted by Burhan:
The word "Aw" could be used to mean varying emphasis. When it is used in religious circles, it is NOT used as "saint" or father, but in fact it is to emphasize a person's esteem or degree in religious knowledge, and particularly in Sufism, which in such case would mean somewhat advanced than a sheikh- and not to be confused with Awliyaa, which would mean "Saint".

Sorry for the imprecise translation.


quote:

My point was to demonstrate that the word "Aw" may not had been a loan word from the then Abyssinia, rather the opposite may be correct.

You're ignoring the evidence I've presented. We already know that the Harari term (this isn't found in all Ethio-Semitic languages, just Harari) is "Aw" and that it evolved from the Ethio-Semitic (and pan-Semitic) "Ab" for "father," and took on the meaning of "holy man/respected holy figure" as well as a respectful term for an elder.

I wouldn't be surprised if the written evidence of Harari from the 18th and 19th centuries that we have shows the term in use even then. There is no such native etymology for Somali, and given the close interactions between the Harari and Somali, it's not a large leap at all to make.


quote:
Remember, present day Ethiopia is a resent construct and the bulk of present day Ethiopia, with the exception of Abyssinia, and particularly the regions were the word "aw" is used were of the same country back then, in the form of the Adel Empire.

Recent border, not a recent construct. And Abyssinia=Ethiopia. There's no differentiation. They are the same state, not a region within Ethiopia.

quote:
Forgive me if I am incorrect, but I sense a great deal of fallacy in your writings. It seems as though you would rape any piece of history for Abyssinia with the disguise of Ethiopia.

I have noticed that any cultural or historical gliter by other Ethiopians such as Afars and others, you would not hesitate to claims it as part of Ethiopia, even when this historical formations had taken place when Abyysinia was not part of this people's knit. On the other hand, you would rush to point out Abyssinian history as such to exclude this pure "rest of Ethiopians".

Again, you are misusing the term. Any piece of history that's Ethiopian is also "Abyssinian" in that it's part of the history of the same state, although not all of the parts may have always been part of the state. Scottish history is still UK history, even though it's not English history. Likewise, Adal history is still Ethiopian history, even if it's not Gondare history.

And when have I ever excluded or included ahistorically any group. Point out one example. The fact is, most of the groups in Ethiopia (within its modern borders) that had high civilization (high social organization or cultural achievements) were also usually within its ancient borders. Now, I'm not implying a correlation, but it means that your accusation of appropriation must be false.


quote:
Furthermore, whatever history that was done during the Abyysinian time, you would claim it to be done by the "South Semitic" peoples. Needless to say that this Abyssinian "Semitic" peoples are actually nothing more than Cushitics as demonstrated by their overwhelming genetics.
Huh? What is the "Abyysinian [sic] time"? If the civilization is located in Tigray, Central Eritrea, or North-central Ethiopia and all the written evidence of their existence is in South Semitic languages, then how are they not South Semitic peoples? I agree, genetically there's not a huge difference between Cushitic and Semitic speakers, but that doesn't mean they aren't different. Moreover, it's misleading to group people solely based on language. Cushitic speakers aren't closer genetically to each other than Ethio-Semitic ones. Shewa Oromos are closer to Shewa Amharas then they are to Somalis, and Ethio-Semitic-speaking Argobbas (who speak a language similar to Amharic and probably evolved from medieval Amhara Muslim traders) are just as culturally similar to their Oromo and Afar Cushitic neighbors as they are to Amhara. Likewise, Gurages (Semitic) share more with Oromos, Hadiyas, and other SW Cushitic groups in terms of customs than with Amharas and Tigrayans.
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Mystery Solver
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Depends on what markers are typed...


NRY marker plots [somewhat too big, so just click here]

In this analysis, Oromos appear closer to Somalis based on certain NRY markers typed, per Sanchez et al. 2005, High frequencies of Y chromosome lineages characterized by E3b1, DYS19-11, DYS392-12 in Somali males.

atDNA analysis however, for example, may [meaning - while doesn't necessarily have to be the case - e.g. when factoring the effects of socio-cultural norms of endogamy or exogamy, is likely to be the case] show a different trend...with groups living in proximity showing relatively more affinity with one another than with those relatively more distant to them.

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Yom
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Cushitic speakers aren't limited to Oromos and Somalis, and not all Oromos and Somalis are the same. Oromos from Addis Abeba were closer to Amharas than to Somalis, while Borana Oromos (Southern) are closer to Somalis.

Likewise, there are groups like the Konso who speak Cushitic languages but are dissimilar in features to both Ethio-Semitic and other Cushitic speakers and probably have different genetic histories as well.

--------------------
"Oh the sons of Ethiopia; observe with care; the country called Ethiopia is, first, your mother; second, your throne; third, your wife; fourth, your child; fifth, your grave." - Ras Alula Aba Nega.

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Mystery Solver
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quote:
Originally posted by Yom:

Cushitic speakers aren't limited to Oromos and Somalis

And this has bearing on my post, because...?


quote:
Yom:

, and not all Oromos and Somalis are the same. Oromos from Addis Abeba were closer to Amharas than to Somalis, while Borana Oromos (Southern) are closer to Somalis.

Sanchez et al.'s analysis, and in fact, many studies show clear NRY genetic distinctions between the self-designated Oromo sampling candidates and the self-designated Amhara ones. The Sanchez et al.'s NRY analysis shows the Ethiopian Oromos to be relatively closer to the Somalis than to their Amhara counterparts. You disagree, then how do you intend to refute them?


quote:
Yom:

Likewise, there are groups like the Konso who speak Cushitic languages but are dissimilar in features to both Ethio-Semitic and other Cushitic speakers and probably have different genetic histories as well.

It would be nice if you addressed only what was said.
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Habari
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Yom, are you Henu on HBF?
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Yom
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^Henu is a moderator here. I think you mean to ask me if I'm "Ezana," which I am.

Also, why is this thread here and not in Egyptology? Isn't this relevant enough to Ancient Egypt to be included their (since the "Ancient Egypt" board is really the "race discussion" board)? There are no moderators for this forum, though, so is sammy the only one (or neal) who can move it?

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Sundjata
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^^I agree. After sifting through past discussions, I was surprised to see this thread in this forum.

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