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Author Topic: The Race of the Ancient Egyptians
Doug M
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I posted it because it shows what types of so-called scientific attitudes exist, even to this day, about Africa, its people and history.
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Johnny Blaze
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I believe that their existed an abirigenal people who looked pretty much what we see on those lovely temples and walls. Brown skinned people with a reddish-brown undertone,black skinned people, high yellow people (not white pink skin),and everything in between. You can tell that modern day Egyptians aren't really from the same exact stock, example: look at the statues of the ancients just about all of them have straight noses, not hooked noses that arabs are known to have.So my point is that their was a negroid element,and a caucasoid element from the beginning, but close to the modern era mixing accured with Asians that caused them to look the way they do today...Can someone post diffrent photos of Thutmose 3 please.
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xyyman
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OH Boy! Here we go again. "caucasoid elements". Before everyone jump on the brother.. . . . .just tell him READ THE ENTIRE thread before posting.
quote:
Originally posted by Johnny Blaze:


I believe that their existed an abirigenal people who looked pretty much what we see on those lovely temples and walls. Brown skinned people with a reddish-brown undertone,black skinned people, high yellow people (not white pink skin),and everything in between. You can tell that modern day Egyptians aren't really from the same exact stock, example: look at the statues of the ancients just about all of them have straight noses, not hooked noses that arabs are known to have.So my point is that their was a negroid element,and a caucasoid element from the beginning, but close to the modern era mixing accured with Asians that caused them to look the way they do today...Can someone post diffrent photos of Thutmose 3 please.


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Djehuti
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quote:
Originally posted by Johnny Blaze:

I believe that their existed an abirigenal people who looked pretty much what we see on those lovely temples and walls. Brown skinned people with a reddish-brown undertone,black skinned people, high yellow people (not white pink skin),and everything in between.

Where exactly are these paintings of "high yellow people"?? As I recall, the only persons depicted as yellow were women but this was done out of artistic convention and not so much realism.

quote:
You can tell that modern day Egyptians aren't really from the same exact stock, example: look at the statues of the ancients just about all of them have straight noses, not hooked noses that arabs are known to have.So my point is that their was a negroid element,and a caucasoid element from the beginning, but close to the modern era mixing accured with Asians that caused them to look the way they do today
First off, there is no such thing as "negroid" or "caucasoid". Second, are you suggesting that features like straight noses or reddish-brown hue is due to admixture, and not indigenous??

quote:
...Can someone post diffrent photos of Thutmose 3 please.
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 -

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Johnny Blaze
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Thank for chewing my head off, I'm new here and I believe these folks were straight up Africans. All that negroid and caucasoid crap needs to stop. Their is only one race_the human race.
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xyyman
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Keep the Arab bashing down... [Big Grin] But I agree with you listening to Hawass recording on the BBC link on this thread. He admits they were not even Arabs but "indigenous unique blacks". Though he has a beef with calling them Negroid ie West Africans/AA/Bantu. In other words he has the same misconception you and many others alluted to that light brown skin/straight nose/curly straight hair is not African but due to admixture. I had the belief also but reading on the genetics of E3b and E3a etc I can see the indigenousness now.
Most rational person can see that AE were of the "media version" of East Africans. Only a few idotic fools think they are Nordic.

The issue now is are these East Africans mixed with Europeans? And geneics is proving they are not.

One thing I still don't see is what percentage of Southern Europeans carry the E3b group compare to East and West Africans?

quote:
Originally posted by Johnny Blaze:
I believe that their existed an abirigenal people who looked pretty much what we see on those lovely temples and walls. Brown skinned people with a reddish-brown undertone,black skinned people, high yellow people (not white pink skin),and everything in between. You can tell that modern day Egyptians aren't really from the same exact stock, example: look at the statues of the ancients just about all of them have straight noses, not hooked noses that arabs are known to have.So my point is that their was a negroid element,and a caucasoid element from the beginning, but close to the modern era mixing accured with Asians that caused them to look the way they do today...Can someone post diffrent photos of Thutmose 3 please.


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xyyman
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@ Johnny Blaze. I am going to steal from Mackandal hope you don't mind. But this is supporting evidence, Johnny and others, that they so called East African features are pure African and not due to admixture.

see-

quote:
Originally posted by Mackandal:
The Cambridge History of Africa (Hardcover)
by J. D. Fage (Editor)
Cambridge University Press (March 30, 1979)
p.69



"Skeletal remains from the Kenya Rift previously considered as 'Afro-Mediterranean' or 'Caucasoid' have now been shown to group with African Negro samples. They date within the first millennium BC and, on physical characteristics, it is suggested that they may be of proto-Nilotic stock. But it is necessary to also make comparisons with Cushitic speakers, since burials found recently in association with a Kenya Capsian-like industry from Lake Besaka in the Ethiopian Rift, dating probably to c. 5000 BC, also show negroid features, and linguistic evidence indicates long history for Cushitic in Ethiopia."


The African Archaeological Review, 6 (1988), pp. 57 72
Who were the later Pleistocene eastern Africans?
L . A . SCHEPARTZ


"The role of tall, linearly built populations in eastern Africa's prehistory has always been debated. Traditionally, they are viewed as late migrants into the area. But as there is better palaeoanthropological and linguistic documentation for the earlier presence of these populations than for any other group in eastern Africa, it is far more likely that they are indigenous eastern Africans. I have argued elsewhere (Schepartz 1985) that these prehistoric linear populations show resemblances to both Upper Pleistocene eastern African fossils and present-day, non-Bantu-speaking groups in eastern Africa, with minor differences stemming from changes in overall robusticity of the dentition and skeleton. This suggests a longstanding tradition of linear populations in eastern Africa, contributing to the indigenous development of cultural and biological diversity from the Pleistocene up to the present."


Getting Here: The Story of Human Evolution (New Edition) (Paperback)
by William Howells (Author), Ann Meagher-Cook (Illustrator)
p.201


"Older analysts of "race" constantly noted a less "African" appearance of people, however dark, reaching from the Horn of Africa northward and were given to talk of a "Hamitic strain," that is, admixture from Caucasoids from the North. Perhaps these scholars had it backwards."


Sorghum (Tropical Agriculture) (Hardcover)
by Hugh Doggett (Author)
Blackwell Publishers; Rev Ed edition (January 1995)
p.35-36


"There is no evidence to support old theories of incursions of Hamites, Caucasians, or 'Long-headed Mediterranean types' into North-East Africa. Long-headed, long-faced people with narrow, high-nosed skulls- 'Elongated Africans'- have been present in the Sudan-Ethiopia-eastern Africa region since the later Pleistocene (Howells 1960: Hiernaux 1974).


The Evolution of Modern Human Diversity: A Study of Cranial Variation (Cambridge Studies in Biological and Evolutionary Anthropology) (Hardcover)
by Marta Mirazon Lahr (Author)
Cambridge University Press (June 28, 1996)
p.283


'Caucasoids' in East Africa and African variability



In Kenya, th remains from Gamble's Cave (10-8 ka), and Bromhead's Site (12 a?) have been interpreted as having 'Caucasoid' features(Tobias, 1972) and possible archaeological affinities with the Mediterranean Capsian industries( Ferembach, 1979). As we have seen in previous chapters, recent sub-Saharan Africans are cranially more gracile than Europeans, and therefore fossil specimens of greater size and robusticity have been traditionally considered non-African in character. However, Rightmire (1975b, 1981) found that these East African remains, as well as those from the related sites of Wiily Kopje, Nakuru and Makalia, cluster with one or other sub-Saharan populations in multivariate statistics, and no with either Egyptians or San/Khoi. Similar results were obtained by Bräuer(1978), and Rightmire(1975b) has suggested that these fossils may represent Nilotic peoples, non-Bantu morphologically and linguistically. These findings are very important for they suggest that not only late Pleistocene to early Holocene remains like Gamble's Cave and Elmenteita should not be interpreted as Caucasoid immigrants, but that the great levels of cranial variation observed today in sub-Saharan Africa were probably even greater in the late Pleistocene.


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Nefar
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my god...is this the 20th PAGE!!! what?! 956 comments?? XD
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Djehuti
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^ I know, right?! This is what you get when you have a thread with the term "race" in its title here in Ancient Egypt & Egyptology section of Egyptsearch! LOL [Big Grin]
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rasol
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quote:
Originally posted by xyyman:
OH Boy! Here we go again. "caucasoid elements". Before everyone jump on the brother.. . . . .just tell him READ THE ENTIRE thread before posting.

At early stages of learning people repeat nonsense terms because they have nothing better.

The differences occurs because some, who are intellectually energetic and adept, are willing to learn better.

Others, cling to their ignorance, [and resent being encouraged to learn], because ignorance all they have, and because learning isn't and option for them in their view, because it involves too much effort and is too hard for them, and means having to start over.

-> There are no original caucaZoid elements in Africa. The very notion is both a contradiction in terms, and ultimately, racist mythology.

Virtually all modern anthropologists have abandoned the racist claims of and original -caucaZoid- population of Africa.

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rasol
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^

Prehistoric human crania from Bromhead's Site, Willey's Kopje, Makalia Burial Site, Nakuru, and other localities in the Eastern Rift Valley of Kenya are reassessed using measurements and a multivariate statistical approach. Materials available for comparison include series of Bushman and Hottentot crania. South and East African Negroes, and Egyptians.


Up to 34 cranial measurements taken on these series are utilized to construct three multiple discriminant frameworks, each of which can assign modern individuals to a correct group with considerable accuracy.

When the prehistoric crania are classified with the help of these discriminants, results indicate that several of the skulls are best grouped with modern Africans.

This is especially clear in the case of individuals from Bromhead's Site, Willey's Kopje, and Nakuru, and the evidence hardly suggests post-Pleistocene domination of the Rift and surrounding territory by "Mediterranean" Caucasoids, as has been claimed.

Recent linguistic and archaeological findings are also reviewed, and these seem to support application of the term Nilotic/negro to the early Rift populations.
-
Rightmire GP.

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Whatbox
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quote:
Originally posted by Djehuti:

are you suggesting that features like straight noses or reddish-brown hue is due to admixture, and not indigenous??

No, he clearly said hooked noses are alien (Arab).

He said straight noses were indigenous African.

Although, the approach by facial features ain't the best; we all know Africans everywhere vary, as did the AE.

There were AE with broad type faces.

Speaking of hooked noses, look at this Ramses captive:

 -

And a close up:

[img]http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/9975/38mb6vc.jpg
[/img]

Yep, there's a difference. [Wink]

 -

 -

 -

From a similar thread started by Hikuptah.

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http://iheartguts.com/shop/bmz_cache/7/72e040818e71f04c59d362025adcc5cc.image.300x261.jpg http://www.nastynets.net/www.mousesafari.com/lohan-facial.gif

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rasol
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quote:

Getting Here: The Story of Human Evolution (New Edition) (Paperback)
by William Howells (Author), Ann Meagher-Cook (Illustrator)
p.201

"Older analysts of "race" constantly noted a less "African" appearance of people, however dark, reaching from the Horn of Africa northward and were given to talk of a "Hamitic strain," that is, admixture from Caucasoids from the North. Perhaps these scholars had it backwards."

This is exactly the case. If the original lies of caucaZoid anthropology were born out of wishful thinking, then current repetitions can only be due to sheer ignorance or willfull perpetration of deceit, based on the classical methodologies of pseudoscience: Namely outdated references to concepts that lack clear definition.
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Doug M
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quote:
Originally posted by Willing Thinker {What Box}:
quote:
Originally posted by Djehuti:

are you suggesting that features like straight noses or reddish-brown hue is due to admixture, and not indigenous??

No, he clearly said hooked noses are alien (Arab).

He said straight noses were indigenous African.

Although, the approach by facial features ain't the best; we all know Africans everywhere vary, as did the AE.

There were AE with broad type faces.

Speaking of hooked noses, look at this Ramses captive:

 -

And a close up:

[img]http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/9975/38mb6vc.jpg
[/img]

Yep, there's a difference. [Wink]

 -

 -

 -

From a similar thread started by Hikuptah.

As has been said on this thread no less, hooked noses are indigenous to Africa as well, even though it may not OCCUR as often in any given African population as it does among the "asiatics".

See: http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=8&t=005241&p=10#000493

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rasol
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^ Agreed.

It is a fact that all humans have a recent origin in Africa.

Therefore when addressing phenotypical characteristics it is most logical to assume and African origin - unless - [as is the case with leucoderma] it is otherwise established.

This is correct premise in terms of logical burdan of proof and rule of parsimony [where the simplist and most direct explanation is considered the best - unless it is specifically descredited].

Generally, when people speculate on the presumably external origins of those things found in Africa - they violate burdan of proof and rule of parsimony.

The reason they do this is because the continue to reflect and inherited Eurocentric discourse.

They don't understand that this discourse is based on root assumptions - namely the European/Eurasian origin of humankind - that have been falsified.

In other words, what is -the proof- that convex or hooked noses originate outside of Africa and are therefore only found in Africa as a product of African non African admixture?

There isn't any.

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King_Scorpion
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quote:
Originally posted by rasol:
quote:
From what I gathered E3a is a predecessor to E3b.
Not quite. They are brothers, not father and sun.

E has 3 sons

E1 E2 and E3 all of which are found essentially only in Africa.

E3 underived exists only in Ethiopia and Senegal.

E3 has West African son E3a and East African son E3b.

I like the schoolbook example you give...lol
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xyyman
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That may be funny to you but I am still learning bro [Big Grin] . Looking at this. . .

http://www.scs.uiuc.edu/~mcdonald/WorldHaplogroupsMaps.pdf

it appears that a large percentage of Morrocans have the E3b group therefore, from what I read, the larger percentage sometimes indicate the place of origin.

What is peculiar also is looking the R “cluster” seems that there is a male relation between the Cameroonians(RxR1), the West Europeans(R1b), Dravidians(RxR1)and the Australian Aboriginal(RxR1). Am I reading this right? And what is the relationship/explanation? Since some of the Moroccans have the RxR1. Is that in indication of the path the R cluster tookto Europe (R1b). NOT through the Levant but across the Strait.
Thoughts?

quote:
Originally posted by King_Scorpion:
quote:
Originally posted by rasol:
quote:
From what I gathered E3a is a predecessor to E3b.
Not quite. They are brothers, not father and sun.

E has 3 sons

E1 E2 and E3 all of which are found essentially only in Africa.

E3 underived exists only in Ethiopia and Senegal.

E3 has West African son E3a and East African son E3b.

I like the schoolbook example you give...lol

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rasol
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quote:
Is that in indication of the path the R cluster tookto Europe (R1b). NOT through the Levant but across the Strait.
No. R1 derivitives split into R1a in Eastern Eurasia [including India], and R1b to the west [Europe].

Central Africa has underived R1.

Either this haplotype originated in Central Africa and spread to the Levantine thru the NIle Delta, or it spread from the Levantine back down into Central Africa 30 kya.

NorthWest Africa [straights of Gibralter etc..] does not have any underived R1.

The little R1 that is present there is R1b, which was likely introduced recently from Europe.

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xyyman
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I needed top magnify the graphs to see the colors clearer. I stand corrected. Mali has the underived R1 NOT Morocco. I see now that the Horn has a small amount of underived R1 this is the path taken either to or from. But what of the large percentage of R1 in Central Africa. Isn’t that an indication of point of origin(large quantity)?

Also since the R haplogroup indicates a “recent” association doesn’t that indicate a genetic link ie (male ancestors) of the R1a and R1b are Central Africans?

But for the Australian Aborigines to also have the underived R1, in such large quantities, then point of origin could be more central(Asia)? The large quantity in the Aborigines may be due to isolation.

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fellati achawi
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quote:
not hooked noses that arabs are known to have
thats funny because arabs dont like hooked noses

--------------------
لا اله الا الله و محمد الرسول الله

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Djehuti
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^ Okay, so what is the argument in this thread about now? Noses?

Seriously, the threads like this with the word 'race' in it get too much attention.

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White Nord
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LOL SO called evidence of a black egypt translated.

The Geographical Origins and Population Relationships of Early Ancient Egyptians
Professor S.O.Y. Keita
Department of Biological Anthropology
Oxford University

Professor A. J. Boyce
University Reader in Human Population
Oxford University

^ We are two afro-centrists that are hell bent on convincing the world that indigenous negroes from the African continent actually built something worthwhile without outside influence.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What was the primary geographical source for the peopling of the Egyptian Nile Valley? Were the creators of the fundamental culture of southern predynastic Egypt—which led to the dynastic culture—migrants and colonists from Europe or the Near East? Or were they predominantly African variant populations?

These questions can be addressed using data from studies of biology and culture, and evolutionary interpretive models. Archaeological and linguistic data indicate an origin in Africa. Biological data from living Egyptians and from skeletons of ancient Egyptians may also shed light on these questions. It is important to keep in mind the long presence of humans in Africa, and that there should be a great range of biological variation in indigenous "authentic" Africans.
Translation: I admit there is some white folks that done got down there in Egypt and we got to find a way to fix that to make them look like part of the typical black African folks.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Scientists have been studying remains from the Egyptian Nile Valley for years. Analysis of crania is the traditional approach to assessing ancient population origins, relationships, and diversity. In studies based on anatomical traits and measurements of crania, similarities have been found between Nile Valley crania from 30,000, 20,000 and 12,000 years ago and various African remains from more recent times.
Translation: We've assessed that the people of North Africa remained negroes and basically indigenous to the area up until 12,000 years ago, but now we just don't know. Somehow it appears some white folks might have gotten through.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Studies of crania from southern predynastic Egypt, from the formative period (4000-3100 B.C.), show them usually to be more similar to the crania of ancient Nubians, Ku****es, Saharans, or modern groups from the Horn of Africa than to those of dynastic northern Egyptians or ancient or modern southern Europeans.
Translation: I admit there was ancient southern Europeans types in Northern Egypt. Now could you all please go away and let us have Southern Egypt for ourselves? Afterall we did find some skulls down there that seem to be somewhat negroid within the content of its structural cavity and sit.
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Art objects are not generally used by biological anthropologists. They are suspect as data and their interpretation highly dependent on stereotyped thinking. However, because art has often been used to comment on the physiognomies of ancient Egyptians, a few remarks are in order. A review of literature and the sculpture indicates characteristics that also can be found in the Horn of (East) Africa
Old and Middle Kingdom statuary shows a range of characteristics; many, if not most, individuals depicted in the art have variations on the narrow-nosed, narrow-faced morphology also seen in various East Africans. This East African anatomy, once seen as being the result of a mixture of different "races," is better understood as being part of the range of indigenous African variation.
Translation: Once again, there was some white folks that got down there in Egypt and we got to find a way to fix that to make them look like part of the typical black African folks.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The descriptions and terms of ancient Greek writers have sometimes been used to comment on Egyptian origins. This is problematic since the ancient writers were not doing population biology. However, we can examine one issue. The Greeks called all groups south of Egypt "Ethiopians." Were the Egyptians more related to any of these "Ethiopians" than to the Greeks? As noted, cranial and limb studies have indicated greater similarity to Somalis, Ku****es and Nubians, all "Ethiopians" in ancient Greek terms.
What the hell did he just say?
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There are few studies of ancient DNA from Egyptian remains and none so far of southern predynastic skeletons. A study of 12th Dynasty DNA shows that the remains evaluated had multiple lines of descent, including not surprisingly some from "sub-Saharan" Africa (Paabo and Di Rienzo 1993). The other lineages were not identified, but may be African in origin.More work is needed.
Translation: They aint tellin because they don't want to piss off the negroes and liberals and basically become un-PC. Hell they want to be hip in the PC climate of the social academic atmosphere to.
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In the future, early remains from the Nile Valley and the rest of Africa will have to be studied in this manner in order to establish the early baseline range of genetic variation of all Africa. The data are important to avoid stereotyped ideas about the DNA of African peoples.
Translation: There so damn much variation in North African phenotypes since them white folks done snuck in down here, we need alot more time to dispose of all them damn honky remains.
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The information from the living Egyptian population may not be as useful because historical records indicate substantial immigration into Egypt over the last several millennia, and it seems to have been far greater from the Near East and Europe than from areas far south of Egypt.
"Substantial immigration" can actually mean a relatively small number of people in terms of population genetics theory. It has been determined that an average migration rate of one percent per generation into a region could result in a great change of the original gene frequencies in only several thousand years. (This assumes that all migrants marry natives and that all native-migrant offspring remain in the region.) It is obvious then that an ethnic group or nationality can change in average gene frequencies or physiognomy by intermarriage, unless social rules exclude the products of "mixed" unions from membership in the receiving group.
Translation: We admit there was a substantial genetic influence on the ancient Egyptian people from others outside Africa, we just need to find a way to blame it on a more modern influx of people from afar,but do it in a way that makes it look like they didn't just come in and do our women and sit.
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More abstractly this means that geographically defined populations can undergo significant genetic change with a small percentage of steady assimilation of "foreign" genes. This is true even if natural selection does not favor the genes (and does not eliminate them).
Translation: By more abstractly I mean, if you draw a line from here to the moon, divide it by pi, intersect the hypotenuse by 3 quadrants of baboons ass, that comes out to a super negroid body plan.
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Examples of regions that have biologically absorbed genetically different immigrants are Sicily, Portugal, and Greece, where the frequencies of various genetic markers (and historical records) indicate sub-Saharan and supra-Saharan African migrants.
Translation: Slaves
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This scenario is different from one in which a different population replaces another via colonization. Native Egyptians were variable. Foreigners added to this variability.

The genetic data on the recent Egyptian population is fairly sparse. There has not been systematic research on large samples from the numerous regions of Egypt. Taken collectively, the results of various analyses suggest that modern Egyptians have ties with various African regions, as well as with Near Easterners and Europeans. Egyptian gene frequencies are between those of Europeans and some sub-Saharan Africans.
Translation: We did find some sub-Saharan genes, afterall they were half off and they fit quite well.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is not surprising. The studies have used various kinds of data: standard blood groups and proteins, mitochondrial DNA, and the Y chromosome. The gene frequencies and variants of the "original" population, or of one of early high density, cannot be deduced without a theoretical model based on archaeological and "historical" data, including the aforementioned DNA from ancient skeletons. (It must be noted that it is not yet clear how useful ancient DNA will be in most historical genetic research.) It is not clear to what degree certain genetic systems usually interpreted as non-African may in fact be native to Africa. Much depends on how "African" is defined and the model of interpretation.
Translation: Given enough time we will have all of Europe and a great deal of Asia within the defined black African phenotype and thus carry on with the proof we need that ancient Egypt was a blacks mans achievement.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The various genetic studies usually suffer from what is called categorical thinking, specifically, racial thinking. Many investigators still think of "African" in a stereotyped, nonscientific (nonevolutionary) fashion, not acknowledging a range of genetic variants or traits as equally African. The definition of "African" that would be most appropriate should encompass variants that arose in Africa. Given that this is not the orientation of many scholars, who work from outmoded racial perspectives, the presence of "stereotypical" African genes so far from the "African heartland" is noteworthy.
Translation: Honkies that support us afro-centrists are aight, those honkies that tell us what we don't want to hear are a bunch of euro-centic racist fools and sit.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
These genes have always been in the valley in any reasonable interpretation of the data. As a team of Egyptian geneticists stated recently, "During this long history and besides these Asiatic influences, Egypt maintained its African identity.

Translation: Regardless of the immense genetic influence on ancient Egypt from people outside the Mother Land, somehow Egypt stayed within the African continent and didn't become disconnected and drift away at any time during its long and illustrious history.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This statement is even more true in a wider evolutionary interpretation, since some of the "Asian" genes may be African in origin. Modern data and improved theoretical approaches extend and validate this conclusion.
Translation: If we extend the biological clock back to the very beginning of man, we are all black Africans afterall. Therefore ancient Egypt was a black mans achievement and sit.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In summary, various kinds of data and the evolutionary approach indicate that the Nile Valley populations had greater ties with other African populations in the early ancient period. Early Nile Valley populations were primarily coextensive with indigenous African populations. Linguistic and archaeological data provide key supporting evidence for a primarily African origin.
Translation: There was a bunch of negroes down there when whitey arrived back in Africa after being away on a hunt for the last God only knows how many millenium.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


References Cited:

Angel, J. L., and J. O. Kelley, Description and comparison of the skeleton. In The Wadi Kubbaniya Skeleton: A Late Paleolithic
Burial from Southern Egypt. E Wendorf and R. Schild. pp. 53-70. Dallas: Southern Methodist University Press. 1986

Brauer, G., and K. Rimbach, Late archaic and modern Homo sapiens from Europe, Africa, and Southwest Asia: Craniometric comparisons and phylogenetic implications, Journal of Human Evolution 19:789-807. 1990

Drake, St. C., Black Folk Here and There, vol 1. Los Angeles: University of California. 1987

Keita, S.O.Y., Studies and comments on ancient Egyptian biological relationships. History in Africa 20:129-154. 1993

Mahmoud, L. et. al, Human blood groups in Dakhlaya. Egypt. Annah of Human Biology. 14(6):487-493. 1987

Paabo, S., and A. Di Rienzo, A molecular approach to the study of Egyptian history. In Biological Anthropology and the Study
of Ancient Egypt. V. Davies and R. Walker, eds. pp. 86-90. London: British Museum Press. 1993

Petrie, W.M., F. The Making of Egypt. London: Sheldon Press. 1984

Thoma, A., Morphology and affinities of the Nazlet Khaterman. Journal of Human Evolution 13:287-296. 1984

10 reasons why the Egyptians were not "Caucasoid"..
^We'll omitt the other 50 reasons why they were.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1. The Dynastic race theory and the Hamitic Hypothesis have both fallen out of favor.. (See Ian Shaw, Oxford History Of Ancient Egypt)
Translation: My name is Ian Shaw and I to want to hang out with the PC elites and get laid. Please don't brand me with that gosh-aweful name of racist.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2. The Egyptians therefore did not migrate from the North, and archaeological observations backs up more favored notions of mass migration from the south, due in part to a fertile Sahara and changing climatic conditions in the Nile and the Sahara. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ Origin_of_...peopl ing
Translation: There was a bunch of negroes down there when whitey arrived back in Africa,
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
3. Cranial analysis found that the predynastic Badari culture stretching from 5000 - 4000 BC., had most similarities to East African Teita tribes in Kenya, while Cranial studies of Naqada II found the closest similarities with ancient Nubian Sudan, and Somalia, and the Falaheen in Israel (due most likely to possessing substantial amounts of East African specific e3b since Fellaheen do not fit into a Middle Eastern or Mediterranean Cluster).. http://www.homestead.com/wysinger/badari.pdf http://www.homestead.com/wysinger/brace_2006.pdf
Translation: We picked over a few skulls and and chose the ones that we liked the most. Other than similarity to those black jews from Israel and sit, they situated in a basically indigenous black African framework, displaying the finest example of the super negroid body plan in which they were originally designed and meant to be by the ones doing the mock up work and the original drawings.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Brace also established a link between these people and groups among the Congo (deep sub-Sahara).

"The Niger-Congo speakers, Congo, Dahomey and Haya, cluster closely with each other and a bit less closely with the Nubian sample � both the recent and the Bronze Age Nubians � and more remotely with the Naqada Bronze Age sample of Egypt, the modern Somalis, and the Arabic-speaking Fellaheen (farmers) of Israel. When those samples are separated and run in a single analysis as in Fig. 1, there clearly is a tie between them that is diluted the farther one gets from sub-Saharan Africa" - Brace
Translation: As one ventures further south, things do tend to get a little darker the closer to sub-Saharan Africa one gets. Those people tried to make to the welfare department in the northern area of Egypt, but the honkies in those areas wanted it for themselves for a few more hundred years.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
4. The 1rst Dynasty remains at the tombs in Abydos were assessed. What was found is that out of all the samples they clustered closest to Kerma (Nubian sample) than anyone else. http://www.homestead.com/wysinger/keita-1993.pdf
Translation: Take it from us. We're unbiased and we can back it up with links that work and sit.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

5. The Egyptians had tropical body plans, meaning their skeletal type indicates adaptation to a tropical environment. Note: Egypt is not in the tropics, so take this info as you will, but I will say that the closest tropical habitat to Egypt is sub-Saharan Africa.
Translation: You can take this with a grain of salt, or you can trust me on this one. I can't prove it but just listen to what I have to say and sit.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

6. Ancient Egyptian language belongs to the Afro-Asiatic language phylum, which began in Africa. Also the fact that Ancient Egyptian is older than semitic (semitic is the only Afro-Asiatic language spoken outside of Africa), that makes Ancient Egyptian an African language by default. And its closest neighbor is not Semitic, there is much debate on that but most say Beja or Chadic resembles it closest based on genetic relationships in linguistics. http://www.forumcityusa.com/viewtopi...&mforum=africa
Translation: We don't have written evidence to the south of Egypt to substantiate our claim, but we know by the way the Beja warriors holler when they get stuck in the ass with a spearpoint that the ancient Egyptian language evolved from there.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

7. Continuity has been found to last from the predynastic of Egypt, well into the dynastic.. Meaning they virtually stayed the same and didn't immediately become an all out "mixed" super heterogeneous population until later. Whatever they were (Ethiopic/Eastern African) in the predynastic, they were well into the dynastic, which is later confirmed through Old Kingdom Giza remains, etc... http://wysinger.homestead.com/zakrzewski_2007.pdf
Translation: We went through all the artifacts from the Old Kingdom we could find that matched as closely to the super-negroid body plan as much as possible, we then compared them to more recent Egyptian artifacts and now we think we have a connection between King Tut and his great great great grandmama that establishes why his hair was knappy as hell.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

8. Mitochondrial DNA tests on modern Egyptians found an underlying ancestral lineage to East Africa. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q..._uids=14748828
Translation: Maybe more negroes made it to the welfare department in the north than we originally had thought.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The truth is that the Egypians mtDNA sequnces showed samples to be related to the Berbers and Sardinans. As for the Arabs changing the racial landscape of Egyptians, i would say no the Arab invasions on the whole North Africa is very small. Even Tunsians and Libyans who are thought to have Arab blood more so than the Egyptians because two Arab tribes have settled the Benu Hilal and Bene Sulyman, and it suggests that their cultural influnce was great, but their racial influnce is small, it was the Berbers rather that have absorbed them. Now Blacks are claming L3E a common mtDNA found in Berber females to be Black or Negroid origin, and now their claiming pre-HVS to be of Negroid origins, how stupid can they be!

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Djehuti
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^ Ultimate translation of the above post:

"I am dumb white racist who cannot accept the unrefuted studies by experts, so I will try to distort them to fit my white-pride self-feel good agenda" LMAO [Big Grin]

Give it up. You haven't proven anything at all-- that Keita's findings verify what (white experts) Cricheton, Rightmire, and Hiernaux have been saying all along-- that indigenous (BLACK) Africans come in a wide range of features and that ancient Egyptians were part of that range.

Still waiting on actual proof of white Egyptians. [Big Grin]

Do you at least have any pics, like the ones I showed? LOL

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Djehuti
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White Nord, after all the info we gave you, you still rant about a white element or "influence" in Egyptian civilization.

Where is it?? We are still waiting for you to provide us evidence of this "white nordic" input to Egyptian civilization. Do you have any examples of this? [Razz]

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rasol
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quote:
Originally posted by White Nord:
LOL SO called evidence of a black egypt translated.

lol. You neither translate, address nor refute, but merrely seek to argue by ridicule, which is a logical fallacy and symptom of intellectual bankruptcy.

quote:

The Geographical Origins and Population Relationships of Early Ancient Egyptians
Professor S.O.Y. Keita
Department of Biological Anthropology
Oxford University

Professor A. J. Boyce
University Reader in Human Population
Oxford University

quote:
Nord writes:
We are two afro-centrists that are hell bent on convincing the world

Again, that is argument by ridicule and name calling.

This is meant to substitute for your failure to *present any data or source* that refutes either Keita or Boyce.

It didn't work.

Keita's observations stand unrefuted:

What was the primary geographical source for the peopling of the Egyptian Nile Valley? Were the creators of the fundamental culture of southern predynastic Egypt—which led to the dynastic culture—migrants and colonists from Europe or the Near East? Or were they predominantly African variant populations?

These questions can be addressed using data from studies of biology and culture, and evolutionary interpretive models.

Archaeological and linguistic data indicate an origin in Africa.

It is important to keep in mind the long presence of humans in Africa, and that there should be a great range of biological variation in ndigenous "authentic" Africans.


-> White Nord does not present any evidence to the contrary....which is actually the concensus opinion of most current scholars.

This is because he has none.

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Sundjata
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^LMAO.. This must be the same cretin from that video game forum that Tyro linked us to, as he's quoted me word for word from what I posted on that forum a few months ago. If you call your Euro quackery and unscientific, politically motivated accusations a "rebuttal", then I'm sorry to say that you're more worn out than I thought and apparently have no answers.

quote:
Translation: I admit there is some white folks that done got down there in Egypt and we got to find a way to fix that to make them look like part of the typical black African folks.
Correct Translation: European Nords, such as your ancestors emerge from one sub-set of African phenotypes which had already existed in Eastern Africa, and this variation is a process which has been going on in Africa before and after the birth of these said Nords in particular.

White "race" very young

quote:
Translation: We've assessed that the people of North Africa remained negroes and basically indigenous to the area up until 12,000 years ago, but now we just don't know. Somehow it appears some white folks might have gotten through.
Correct Translation: Actually they do know since they've reviewed the data, and you omit where it is noted, "12,000 years ago and various African remains from more recent times." Being familiar with the data in question, he's referring to 1rst Dynasty times when he says "more recent", among other remains, as is repeated in other studies. Your desperate distortion isn't going to work.


quote:
Translation: I admit there was ancient southern Europeans types in Northern Egypt. Now could you all please go away and let us have Southern Egypt for ourselves? Afterall we did find some skulls down there that seem to be somewhat negroid within the content of its structural cavity and sit.
Correct Translation: To the contrary. No presence of any imaginary Southern Europeans are acknowledged. What is stated is what is meant, that early remains resembled Kushites, early Saharans, and East Africans more than any said Southern Europeans. Northern Egyptians had a modal pattern that was intermediate between Northern Europeans and Khoisan Bushmen. Europeans usually aren't intermediate between Europeans and Africans because they are Europeans!

The Lower Egyptian pattern is intermediate to that of the various northern Europeans and West African and Khoisan." - S.O.Y Keita

quote:
Translation: They aint tellin because they don't want to piss off the negroes and liberals and basically become un-PC. Hell they want to be hip in the PC climate of the social academic atmosphere to.
Correct Translation: Mummy DNA is usually degraded, as most are aware of, but that which was extractable suggested "sub-Saharan" ancestry, while other lineages were unidentified, but could have been, and most likely were African in origin.

Your wishful thinking has no bearing on reality. [Smile]


quote:
Translation: There so damn much variation in North African phenotypes since them white folks done snuck in down here, we need alot more time to dispose of all them damn honky remains.
Correct Translation: Evidence for the antiquity of the "white" Nord is scant, especially his presence in Africa. However, claims in the past have been made so it is necessary to establish which lineages are indigenous and non-indigenous to the continent. In this case, there is no such evidence of any non-African lineages in the Nile Valley population in question, in any substantial amount.

quote:
Translation: We admit there was a substantial genetic influence on the ancient Egyptian people from others outside Africa, we just need to find a way to blame it on a more modern influx of people from afar,but do it in a way that makes it look like they didn't just come in and do our women and sit.
Correct Translation: There is no documented migration of any non-Africans entering the Nile valley until well after the onset of the civilization. Therefore, modern influence is the most scientifically sound and best explanation according to Occam's razor, which eliminates radical and unfounded assumptions. The types that you so faithfully depend on without any evidence whatsoever, simply to ease your torn soul.

quote:
Translation: By more abstractly I mean, if you draw a line from here to the moon, divide it by pi, intersect the hypotenuse by 3 quadrants of baboons ass, that comes out to a super negroid body plan.
Correct Translation: The distal segments of limbs that are longer relative to the proximal segments = a tropical body plan. "White Nords" don't have tropical body plans. [Smile]

quote:
Translation: Slaves
Correct Translation: HLA genes in Macedonians and the sub-Saharan origin of the Greeks

quote:
Translation: We did find some sub-Saharan genes, afterall they were half off and they fit quite well.
Correct Translation: You don't make any sense.

quote:
Translation: Given enough time we will have all of Europe and a great deal of Asia within the defined black African phenotype and thus carry on with the proof we need that ancient Egypt was a blacks mans achievement.
Correct Translation: Conversely, the problem was/is that African diversity in past studies was limited to but a few out liners with the rest attributed to external influences, when recent data suggests that non-African genes are sub-sets of African ones with the majority of variation through out human history occurring in Africa. Which has been verified numerous times, therefore it is intellectually responsible to review such data with extreme care. Unlike Euro nuts who attribute everything to Europe and even rather be associated with Neanderthals than modern Humans from Africa.

quote:
Translation: Honkies that support us afro-centrists are aight, those honkies that tell us what we don't want to hear are a bunch of euro-centic racist fools and sit.
Correct Translation: He is repeating scientific consensus, which isn't attributable to any one particular brand of "honkey" since race has been deconstructed as a politically motivated concept, that indeed, Eurocentric quacks such as yourself still adhere to. Which is why you're so far behind.

American Anthropological Association Statement on "Race"

quote:
Translation: Regardless of the immense genetic influence on ancient Egypt from people outside the Mother Land, somehow Egypt stayed within the African continent and didn't become disconnected and drift away at any time during its long and illustrious history.
Correct Translation: "The immense" influence is documented and most of it was during historical times. The genes that he alludes to which have always been present are the African ones.

quote:
Translation: My name is Ian Shaw and I to want to hang out with the PC elites and get laid. Please don't brand me with that gosh-aweful name of racist.
Correct Translation: I have no answers so I'm compelled to ad hominem attack someone I've never even heard of

quote:
Translation: There was a bunch of negroes down there when whitey arrived back in Africa,
Correct Translation: Actually, as stated, the cultural and biological forbearers of the Egyptians migrated from the south and south west, whitey was nowhere to be found.

Quoting renowned Afrocentric critic, Mary Lefkowitz, who stated, almost reluctantly after reviewing the data:

"Recent work on skeletons and DNA suggests that the people who settled in the Nile valley, like all of humankind, came from somewhere south of the Sahara; they were not (as some nineteenth-century scholars had supposed) invaders from the North." - Mary Lefkowitz ( Source)

quote:
Translation: We picked over a few skulls and and chose the ones that we liked the most. Other than similarity to those black jews from Israel and sit, they situated in a basically indigenous black African framework, displaying the finest example of the super negroid body plan in which they were originally designed and meant to be by the ones doing the mock up work and the original drawings.
Correct Translation: LOL! You're too ignorant. This was a review of pre-selected crania, they had no choice in what was chosen and it was more than a few skulls. Why don't you read the studies yourself for the actual sample sizes, instead of ranting off about two papers you decided not to even read?

quote:
Translation: Take it from us. We're unbiased and we can back it up with links that work and sit.
Correct Translation: Quote: The contributions by Keita are outstanding exceptions to the general lack of both demographic study and objectivity - Source

quote:
Translation: You can take this with a grain of salt, or you can trust me on this one. I can't prove it but just listen to what I have to say and sit.
Correct Translation: They had tropical body plans. Egypt isn't in the tropics and the nearest tropics are a hop, skip, and jump away a few feet south. If you're willing to entertain that the Egyptians were tropically adapted to the tropical climate of another continent instead of their own, and eventually migrating thousands of miles to Egypt, then that makes you a loon, not me. Most importantly, "White Nords" don't have tropical body plans!

quote:
Translation: We don't have written evidence to the south of Egypt to substantiate our claim, but we know by the way the Beja warriors holler when they get stuck in the ass with a spearpoint that the ancient Egyptian language evolved from there.
Correct Translation: We know based on Joseph Greenberg's reconstruction and classification of the Afro-Asiatic language phylum, which includes ancient Egyptian. What does "written evidence" of the time have to do with anything when the vast majority of Indo-European languages never had any written language and is basically derived from Latin and Phoenician? What is noteworthy is that the AE didn't speak Indo-Euopean, the language of your Nordic ancestors. [Smile] In any event, the vast majority of linguists place Afro-Asiatic origins in the south of Egypt.


quote:
Translation: We went through all the artifacts from the Old Kingdom we could find that matched as closely to the super-negroid body plan as much as possible, we then compared them to more recent Egyptian artifacts and now we think we have a connection between King Tut and his great great great grandmama that establishes why his hair was knappy as hell.
Correct Translation: All of the data available has lead to these conclusions and by various anthropologists, most of whom are of European ancestry, so your accusations of bias are foolish and unfounded.

quote:
Translation: Maybe more negroes made it to the welfare department in the north than we originally had thought.
Correct Translation: You have no answers, therefore you resort to blatant racism. How surprising.

Mods! Does this not warrant a ban or is Egypt search going to end up a safe haven for racist swines?

quote:

The truth is that the Egypians mtDNA sequnces showed samples to be related to the Berbers and Sardinans.

Source? If so it doesn't tell us much about the original sedentary populations and as cited, these said sedentary populations have much more in common with Ethiopians. As a matter of fact, I might have to push for that source of yours since mtDNA studies show Egyptians to cluster quite closely with the Tigre of Ethiopia..


quote:
As for the Arabs changing the racial landscape of Egyptians, i would say no the Arab invasions on the whole North Africa is very small.
Yes, but Hyksos, Greek, Persian, Roman, Turkish, Lybian, along with Arabic migration was not as it concerns Egypt.

"Substantial immigration" can actually mean a relatively small number of people in terms of population genetics theory. It has been determined that an average migration rate of one percent per generation into a region could result in a great change of the original gene frequencies in only several thousand years.

quote:
Even Tunsians and Libyans who are thought to have Arab blood more so than the Egyptians because two Arab tribes have settled the Benu Hilal and Bene Sulyman, and it suggests that their cultural influnce was great, but their racial influnce is small, it was the Berbers rather that have absorbed them.
So? Which would mean that modern Egyptians are more closely related to more southernly Africans than they are, especially southern Egyptians.

quote:
Now Blacks are claming L3E a common mtDNA found in Berber females to be Black or Negroid origin, and now their claiming pre-HVS to be of Negroid origins, how stupid can they be!
L3 is most common in East Africa and is the lineage which gave rise to all non-African populations; what are you talking about? Why is it surprising the Berbers have African lineages when they speak an African language that most likely arose in East Africa? Please do some research, you're off by a wide margin.

In any event, you're a clown..

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Sundjata
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Sorry to everyone else for wasting time and space by replying to this demented troll, I just felt like deflating his ego a bit..

--------------------
mr.writer.asa@gmail.com

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rasol
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quote:
Now Blacks are claming L3E a common mtDNA found in Berber females to be Black or Negroid origin
Disregarding the manner in which these idiots attempt to use the race-jibberish to maintain and impenetrably unintelligent dialogue......

Alves-Silva et al. (2000) suggested that most of the mtDNA lineages of African ancestry in their Brazilian sample had an origin in central Africa, although a substantial *number must have come from western Africa.* Bandelt et al. (2001) evaluated the phylogeography of the L3e mtDNA haplogroup, which is omnipresent in Africa but *virtually absent in Eurasia*, and concluded that the distributions of haplogroup L3e in Brazil and in the Caribbean area still reflect the different African sources to the New World.

I have never heard of Nordicentrist trying to claim L3E for white people before, but why not?

The more patently loony the arguments are, the more they affirm both the reality of the Black African Kemet, and the pathetic nature of what they have been reduced to by way of sheer desparation.

Long live Nordic L3E!

Next up, the Nordic origins of Bantu! [Big Grin]

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Sundjata
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quote:
Originally posted by rasol:

Next up, the Nordic origins of Bantu! [Big Grin]

LMAO! I wouldn't at all be surprised..
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Keins
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Excellent!

quote:
Originally posted by rasol:
^ Agreed.

It is a fact that all humans have a recent origin in Africa.

Therefore when addressing phenotypical characteristics it is most logical to assume and African origin - unless - [as is the case with leucoderma] it is otherwise established.

This is correct premise in terms of logical burdan of proof and rule of parsimony [where the simplist and most direct explanation is considered the best - unless it is specifically descredited].

Generally, when people speculate on the presumably external origins of those things found in Africa - they violate burdan of proof and rule of parsimony.

The reason they do this is because the continue to reflect and inherited Eurocentric discourse.

They don't understand that this discourse is based on root assumptions - namely the European/Eurasian origin of humankind - that have been falsified.

In other words, what is -the proof- that convex or hooked noses originate outside of Africa and are therefore only found in Africa as a product of African non African admixture?

There isn't any.


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blackman
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quote:
Originally posted by Sundiata:


Quoting renowned Afrocentric critic, Mary Lefkowitz, who stated, almost reluctantly after reviewing the data:

"Recent work on skeletons and DNA suggests that the people who settled in the Nile valley, like all of humankind, came from somewhere south of the Sahara; they were not (as some nineteenth-century scholars had supposed) invaders from the North." - Mary Lefkowitz ( Source)


Mary must have been nashing her teeth and nawing her tongue to admit that truth.
However, not as bad as people like White Nord.

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AFRICA I
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White Nord is a funny man...Long life to the Great White Civilization!!!
Here are the Northern Europeans contemporaries of ancient Egyptians:
 -

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blackman
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quote:
Originally posted by White Nord:
LOL SO called evidence of a black egypt translated.

The Geographical Origins and Population Relationships of Early Ancient Egyptians
Professor S.O.Y. Keita
Department of Biological Anthropology
Oxford University

Professor A. J. Boyce
University Reader in Human Population
Oxford University

^ We are two afro-centrists that are hell bent on convincing the world that indigenous negroes from the African continent actually built something worthwhile without outside influence.

White Nord's Translation:
I can't refute the data and you people have me so frustrated. I can't just spew nonsense like I do on Stormfront without backing it up with data.

However, I do like part of Blackman's writing style with the translation stuff he originally used on (page13). I will copy/steal part of Blackman's style and use it on (Stormfront) as White dude with an attitude.

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BrandonP
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You're not supposed to link to either other forums or to white supremacist websites. I know I've done both in the past, but I have learned my mistakes and I advise you not to make them.

--------------------
Brought to you by Brandon S. Pilcher

My art thread on ES

And my books thread

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Mansa Musa
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There's no rule in place against linking to racist websites. It's only frowned upon by certain board members. If Blackman wants to use a SF link to prove a point that's his prerogative.

I do find it amusing that White Nord may be copying his debate tactics.

Stealing your opponent's innovation is a silent concession that they are your intellectual superior. [Wink]

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rasol
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quote:
There's no rule in place against linking to racist websites. It's only frowned upon by certain board members.
False statement. You personally have been warned repeatedly by the moderator to stop doing this - > it's bad enough that you ignore the moderators request, worse now that you fib about it.

It's also just a flat out dumb thing to do from your perspective, but some folks never learn, so....

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AFRICA I
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I never went to SF before, but thanks to the link I browsed a little bit in the forum, they are not that bad, they are just challenged intellectually...it's not an intellectual forum, but personally I don't care if someone links to a dumb forum or more intelligent one. By the way Tryrex, apparently you post there...how come you ended up in a racist(or racialist) forum in the first place? Mansa Musa, the question is for you as well...You guys seem to be smarter than the posters in that SF site? I'm a little bit puzzle, an intelligent person doesn't waste his time in such stupid forums...why do you post there? Or it is just like Charlie Bass: you grew up in a extremely racialist society: America, and you can't help posting in SF.
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blackman
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My apology to Mansa Musa and other forum members.
I will not link to Stormfront or any other site like it again.

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rasol
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quote:
By the way Tryrex, apparently you post there...how come you ended up in a racist(or racialist) forum in the first place?
I never click on those links, or go to those forums, but it was always obvious that T-Rex does so, and then brings their claims back here in the form of rhetorical questions which we are supposed to then refute.

I specifically called him out for this, months ago.

Presumably his game is to carry the refutations back there and so instigate proxy pseudo debates based on essentially plagiarised materials.


Now....Ausar, the forums prior moderator, long ago prohibited this manner of trolling.

So really, this person, who is a habitual offender, should be banned.

For me, trolls like t-rex are horribly crude and laughably obvious, the only mystery is how they manage to keep fooling intelligent people.

This guy has done this for months now....been called on it, apologised for it, and then done it again. Yet you are shocked? [Confused]

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AFRICA I
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I don't know if it's an American thing, but people are not that obsessed about race, the only African I know who posted on Dodona is Mystery Solver, otherwise a sane Black African can't post on those garbage forums except the confused genetically bastard Kabyles...I mean just by looking at Africans, we all know that Caucasians or Mongolian features are not original, they are African derived...I understand that Mansa and Tyrex are Americans and don't know how the world is diverse, especially in Africa...let's say you go in places like Kenya, Tanzania, Somalia, Ethiopia, and show a Swede to people, and say this is a Caucasian...I mean they would laugh, what does it mean... big head, big hooked nose like the Arabs...a Swede just look like a Blond, blue eyed Arab....
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BrandonP
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quote:
Originally posted by AFRICA I:
By the way Tryrex, apparently you post there...how come you ended up in a racist(or racialist) forum in the first place?

What are you talking about? I have never posted at Stormfront and never will. You need to preserve your brain cells, y'know
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Djehuti
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^ Indeed, just look at White Nord's posts! LMAO [Big Grin]
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AFRICA I
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Aren't you UP Man? Someone use the same user name in the SF forum.
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BrandonP
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quote:
Originally posted by AFRICA I:
Aren't you UP Man? Someone use the same user name in the SF forum.

Well, I did use to call myself Underpants Man, but even under that username I never posted on Stormfront.
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BrandonP
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BTW:

quote:
Originally posted by AFRICA I:
White Nord is a funny man...Long life to the Great White Civilization!!!
Here are the Northern Europeans contemporaries of ancient Egyptians:
 -

^ This is not accurate. Europe was indeed backwards during Ancient Egyptian times (as was 90% of the world), but they were Bronze instead of Stone Age. This is probably closer to what Europeans during Ancient Egyptian times were like:

 -

 -

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AFRICA I
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Thanks UP Man!!!
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Djehuti
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quote:
Originally posted by Tyrann0saurus:
BTW:

This is not accurate. Europe was indeed backwards during Ancient Egyptian times (as was 90% of the world), but they were Bronze instead of Stone Age. This is probably closer to what Europeans during Ancient Egyptian times were like:

 -

 -

Yes, but considering the idiocy and foolishness that 'White Nord' portrays I think AFRICA was pointing out that his particular ancestors must have been Neanderthals (as an insult).

[Embarrassed] Then again, Neanderthals turned out to be a little smarter than what the stereotype entails, so even that isn't good enough for 'White Nord'.

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Mansa Musa
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quote:
Originally posted by rasol:
False statement. You personally have been warned repeatedly by the moderator to stop doing this - > it's bad enough that you ignore the moderators request, worse now that you fib about it.

It's also just a flat out dumb thing to do from your perspective, but some folks never learn, so....

I have no recollection of being warned for this. I only recall being scolded by YOU (you're not a mod even though you love to act like it), for doing so and told that it was ONCE policy on the board not to do such a thing.

If you have evidence to the contrary provide a quote and link, otherwise you are the one making false statements, fibbing or at the very least making claims you cannot corroborate.

We're going to create formal rules for this forum soon and unless one of the moderators insists on such a rule being in place linking to a racist site will not be prohibited.

quote:
Originally posted by blackman:
My apology to Mansa Musa and other forum members.
I will not link to Stormfront or any other site like it again.

You don't owe anyone an apology. Unfortunately some members have been intimidated by others into believing that because they disapprove of an action it gives them license to tell others what to do.
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alTakruri
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Have we a clear articulation of forum policy and
expectations such member license will be revoked.

I for one thought somebody handling moderation
takes this forum seriously enough to post a set
of evenhanded over-the-board decorum in lieu of
using fly by the momemt feelings and comeraderie
to censor respondents to ad homina when its the
instigators who should be chastised.

Random rules are what's intimidating. That and
facist suppression of public criticism of forum
authorities. But I guess if one hails from a non
free press country one acts in that same mode.

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Djehuti
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^ Why the hell would someone want to link this forum (or any intelligent site) with Stormfront??!
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