posted
Damn DJ, you're spoiling my cat and mouse fun.
But actually RMNN is how AEs wrote the foreign (to them) word לְּבָנֹן .
But a possibly associated in root meaning word, Libu, did undergo the process you delineated. At least for the first phoneme. I.e., Rebu became Libu became Libya.
quote:Originally posted by Dj:
quote:Originally posted by alTakruri: Now repeat after me.
Please Mr. al~Takruri, teach me the ancient Assyrian script and lexicon and the ancient Egyptian lexicon, I'm sorry I said there's no ancient Lebanon when I don't even know any ancient script or any ancient language nor delved into any ancient primary text for supportive material to back my asinine false assertion nor can I even recognize the word Lebanon in their own ancient Semitic language. And on top of that I can't apply a multi-disciplinary approach because I was too busy dating Rosy Palm to apply myself to linguistics so I can't understand how 'l' & 'r' and 'b' & 'm' interchange from one language to another as alveolars and bilabials respectively.
Sorry Takruri, but I doubt the moron knows anything about linguistics let alone phonetic shift theories such as Grimm's Law which states a shift in consonants like l to r and vice-versa.
Therefore it's not hard to see that RMNN/ R-M-N-N pronounced something like 'Remenan' could become 'Lebanon' in several thousand years.
And why is that Mike??
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posted
Sorry girls, you're not squirming out of it like that. The argument is NOT that there was a Lebanon, the Cedars of Lebanon, referring to Mount Lebanon, are well known in ancient text.
The great "SAGES" he he, quote was: "And I would also like to know why they hired the ancient Lebanese to do so much ship sailing stuff for them if they were so adept at it themselves".
That statement refers to a Lebanese PEOPLE, AS IN A NATION, get it?
But just in case you girls don't get it: There is a mount Everest, but no nation called Everest, now do you get it????
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^ LOL @ the idiot's backtracking. Let's see how far that will get him... Posts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote: Pirogues are still made just out of town, by Bozo craftsman ... designs identical to that noted by Arab travelers in the 12th century ... up to 20 meters (22 yards) long, very stable, roofed with arching boughs covered with thatch ...
Marq de Villers, Sheila Hirtle Into Africa: A Journey Through the Ancient Empires Key Porter Books,1999 p. 257
From the research of Saidi_Aswan_Egy
I knew I saw that name on here before somewhere! (I've since the book)
"Real Fact" #177 The first sailing boats were built in Egypt. Get all the "Real Facts" at snapple.com
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Gregory P. Gilbert Ancient Egyptian Sea Power and the Origin of Maritime Forces Australia: Sea Power Centre, 2008
P R E FAC E Despite my early reservations that the extent of Ancient Egyptian sea power was already widely known, it did not take long before I realised that what I have taken for granted for some 25 years or so, was either doubted or denied by many scholars. Hopefully this book will help to educate those who believed that sea power did not exist prior to the introduction of specialist warships, and in the process it will encourage others to look deeper into the many historical experiences that may have contributed to our understanding of maritime strategy and sea power but that have tended to be overlooked in the Western intellectual tradition.
I wish to express my sincere thanks and gratitude to Captain Richard McMillan, CSC, RAN, Captain Peter Leavy, RAN, Dr David Stevens and the staff at the Sea Power Centre –Australia (SPC-A) for their encouragement and support during the planning, research and writing phases of this project. I am especially grateful to Andrea Argirides whose interest in the Ancient Mediterranean helped to reinvigorate my efforts whenever my own thought processes began to sag.
This work was extensively edited and prepared for publication by Andrew Forbes and Michelle Lovi from the SPC-A, who deserve special credit for making sense of the final product. Of course, all remaining errors and omissions are my own.
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F O R E W O R D . . . . It is a truism that Egyptologists and naval historians do not often mix. Egyptologists study the art, archaeology and history of Ancient Egypt. They often tend to believe in Ancient Egypt as a specialisation that is significantly different from other regions of study, that many of the philosophical developments within the art, archaeology and history disciplines are commonly ignored, being classified as ‘not relevant to Ancient Egypt’. The upshot of this is that much of the detailed information on Ancient Egypt tends to remain in the hands of the Egyptologists, while public demand for all things ‘Egyptian’ has generated large numbers of popular books of varying quality, which by their very nature do not contain the detailed information that support new discourses on Ancient Egyptian history. This study aims to bring the relevant information on Ancient Egyptian sea power together in a form that historians and naval professionals should find interesting and informative. It is both a source book and a vehicle for new models and interpretations for the origins of naval forces. It is hoped that in time naval practitioners, naval historians and students of maritime affairs will appreciate the full tapestry of Ancient Egyptian sea power. In future, Egyptologists, ancient historians or the interested public may wish to make their own contribution to the better understanding and the continued relevance of Ancient Egyptian sea power.
This study is the first step in a process that is intended to bring international thinking on sea power to the fore. As such, the research is intended as a preliminary study of the most readily available sources. It is not intended to be a comprehensive collection of all references to Ancient Egyptian maritime activities, but rather the more obscure sources have been put aside in favour of those that support the sea power message. The resulting narrative interpretation is thus also evolving, and all constructive feedback is most welcome. This study is somewhat like looking at a long coastline through binoculars, while one may focus on one small landing place ashore, it should not be inferred that the rest of the coastline does not exist. Sea power was just one aspect within the multifaceted society that was Ancient Egypt.
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posted
Change is inevitable and a real man marks the change when his horizons have been broadened.
quote:This is a song about change, you see We say many things about the changing aspects of our lives We say that since change is inevitable, we should direct the change Rather than simply continue to go through the change We sing a song of revolution as change To the brothers in the Caribbean and Africa, Where I'm Coming from
Gil Scott-Heron
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posted
O U T L I N E This study provides an overview of Ancient Egyptian sea power by examining the written and archaeological evidence to develop an explanation for the origin of naval forces. The applicability of sea power during the formation of the Egyptian state is considered, as is the important contribution of naval forces to the rise of central government and state building processes. Through examination of a broad range of Egyptian cultural customs and beliefs it is possible to gain a deeper understanding of maritime Egypt. As with modern naval forces, much of what is common practice at sea is often left unsaid and unrecorded. The depth of the naval influence on a maritime state is often visible within their image of themselves, their gods and their language. Changes in Ancient Egyptian maritime technologies are also examined to understand better the boat and ship capabilities used by the Ancient Egyptians. A review of the maritime operations of the Ancient Egyptian naval forces follows. The modern concept of a span of maritime operations, including military, diplomatic and constabulary, is used to categorise and evaluate Ancient Egyptian operations. This section, along with the associated listing contained in Appendix 1, reveals the extent and variety of the evidence of the influence of sea power on Ancient Egyptian history. Despite a few minor differences, a somewhat surprising degree of similarity may be observed between the naval activities of the Ancient Egyptians and those undertaken by today’s navies. The information evaluated will be used to form an interpretive model for the origin of naval forces in Ancient Egypt.
posted
P R E H I T O R I C B O A T S The earliest evidence for the use of boats in Ancient Egypt is circumstantial. Fish bones found at the campsites of prehistoric hunter/gatherers include larger deep-water fish that can only be caught by deep-water fishing in some form of boat.14 The earliest boats were rafts made from papyrus reeds, similar to those depicted in later tomb scenes depicting fishing and fowling. Temporary papyrus boats enabled hunter/gatherer groups to travel across and along the river between seasonal camp sites. Egyptian mythology often refers to the use of papyrus boats by the gods, during the ‘time of the gods’ that is before the formation of the Egyptian state. Papyrus boats continued to be used in Pharaonic times for fishing and fowling along the river, but they also retained their religious symbolism as the craft used by the forces of order who entered the wetlands to defeat the forces of chaos.
As the Egyptians adopted Neolithic lifeways (approximately 5500 BCE), including the introduction of agriculture and animal husbandry, they continued their reliance on boats to utilise the resources of the Nile. It is likely that wooden boats were first developed at this time, with sedentary villagers investing greater effort to construct more permanent boats suitable for fishing, fowling and transportation. Later evidence suggests that the earliest wooden boats were typically of a shell construction, that is a combination of planks joined together with mortise-and-tenon joints and then sewn together to form a keel-less hull.15 It is possible that some of the earliest Neolithic boats were owned communally, with each plank being held by a member of the village when not in use.16 Although there are a few simple models of boats dating to the Neolithic period, it is with the rise of chiefdoms during the Egyptian Predynastic period (3700 to 3050 BCE) that there is evidence of widespread use of boats.
The Egyptian Predynastic period is characterised by numerous boat depictions, including what appears to be a recurring maritime theme on rock art and decorated pottery of that period.17 There are three types of boat depiction during the Egyptian Predynastic period: the papyrus boat, the ceremonial boat and the war-canoe.18
Papyrus boats were still being built in Africa until recent times, in Lake Tana and Chad, and their method of construction provides insight into their Ancient Egyptian equivalents. Egyptian papyrus boats were constructed using dried papyrus plants (each up to 5m high and 15cm thick at the base) bound together to form bundles, which were then tied together to form the desired boat shape. The narrow ends would be raised and tied back to form an upright bow and stern. While single papyrus bundles were used to fish or cross the Nile, quite complex papyrus boats were also constructed by binding multiple large papyrus bundles and could be up to 15m long and 3m wide.19
The ceremonial boats were most likely developed from the larger papyrus boats with upturned ends, used for chiefly ceremonies and other ritual purposes. By the Egyptian Predynastic period they had grown in size and hence a stronger wooden construction was required, although they retained the basic shape of the original papyrus boat with the raised bow and stern. Pharaonic models of divine barks and funerary barks clearly show that the raised bow and stern form was retained.
War-canoes were most important from the viewpoint of the origin of naval forces and ancient sea power. The Neolithic wooden boats grew in size during the Predynastic period to accommodate larger crews. The resulting long thin boats developed into war-canoes with two rows of paddlers, papyrus shelters, a steering oar, a standard and typically a branch on the bow. They were constructed from two wooden side lengths and a wooden bottom length made from thin planks sewn together. Such war-canoes varied in length from approximately 15m for 20 oarsmen (small war-canoe), 27m for 52 oarsmen (large war-canoe), and 38m for 80 oarsmen (maximum crew size).20 It is also possible that sails were used during most of the Predynastic period, as diamond shaped representations with ‘masts’ have of ten been interpreted as temporary sails. The earliest depiction of a sail on a boat can be dated to the end of the Predynastic period, about 3050 BCE.
A number of nobles’ titles are clearly of a maritime nature, especially those using one or more hieroglyphs with a nautical origin. Some of the earliest titles from the Old Kingdom and Middle Kingdoms are ‘commander of ships’, ‘ship’s captain’, ‘captain of sailors’, ‘commander of sailors’ and ‘scribe of the marine’.50 During the New Kingdom new titles appear, in addition to some of the earlier ones, ‘fleet captain’, ‘captain of the ships of the king’, ‘captain of galleys’, ‘ship’s captain’, ‘captains of marines’ (literally ‘captain of the ship archers’), ‘officer of the ships’, ‘officer of marines’, ‘standard-bearer of the ship’, ‘standard-bearer of the marines’, ‘commander of the rowers’, ‘chief of the rowers’, ‘ship archers’, and many more. Non-seagoing titles, such as ‘harbour master’ and ‘ship-builder’, were also used.51 The broad extent of the titles used suggests that the Ancient Egyptian maritime forces were commanded by trained and experienced marine professionals. Scholars who believe that Egyptian sea power is frequently overstated, and who prefer to see a Syrian source for East Mediterranean maritime activities, should reflect upon the complexity and sophistication of the Egyptian Bronze Age forces in comparison with their non-territorial state maritime neighbours.
For the New Kingdom period it is possible to reconstruct the organisation of the Egyptian maritime forces.52 The sailors, uau, were under the leadership of a petty officer, perhaps either the kherep-khenyt ‘chief of the rowers’, khery-khenyt ‘commander of the rowers’, or the tay-seryt ‘standard-bearer’. The ‘ship’s captain’, the hery-wesekh but also known by various other Egyptian terms, who was in charge of the crew and probably the ship itself, would have been of a higher status than the sailors. Promotion of ‘ship’s captains’ were most likely to a more prestigious ship. A number of senior officials had higher maritime commands like ‘chief of all the king’s ships’ or ‘chief of the broad ships of the god’s estate’. Were these the admirals of the Ancient Egyptian maritime forces?
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posted
S E A G O I N G S H I P S While travelling boats were ideal for use along the Nile, they were limited in their ability to navigate Egypt’s adjacent seas. Sea voyages put much higher demands upon a vessel’s strength and seaworthiness. However, inter-regional trade did occur during the Egyptian Predynastic period if not before. The presence of Syrian pottery, imported stone tools and metals, and the remains of Lebanese cedar confirm the existence of maritime trade links between Egyptian and Syrian communities well before the formation of the Egyptian state around 3050 BCE.85 However, the earliest depictions of seagoing ships that provide information on Ancient Egyptian ship technologies are dated to the beginning of the 5th Dynasty during the Old Kingdom, c. 2500 BCE.
Fragmentary reliefs from King Sahura’s Temple depict a fleet of seagoing ships returning from an expedition, while the number of Syrians onboard suggests the ships had sailed the Mediterranean to Byblos or some other destination in Syria.86 Sahura’s ships were over 17.5m long, 4m wide, with a draught of approximately 1m and an average plank thickness of 10cm.87 The ships had either 14 or 16 oars for propulsion, six steering oars, a bipod mast for a trapezoid sail and an anchor. There were at least four ships in the fleet and each ship was crewed by approximately 20 people made up of Egyptians, Syrians and perhaps other maritime peoples.88
... Sahura’s seagoing boats reveal the high level of sophistication of early Egyptian ship construction techniques.
Old Kingdom records reveal that the earliest seagoing ships were referred to as ‘Byblos ships’. It is possible that the technical modifications were incorporated into the standard design of the Egyptian river vessels after visiting Byblos and learning their techniques, but it was equally as likely that the Egyptians modified their ships themselves especially for the Byblos run. The records show that Byblos ships were also used for travel in the Red Sea.91 As maritime communications between Egypt and Byblos had already been strong for some time before the evidence of the seagoing ship, it is most likely that the modifications were a combination of many smaller initiatives adopted by mariners from both regions.
The earliest evidence for the use of boats in Ancient Egypt is circumstantial. Fish bones found at the campsites of prehistoric hunter/gatherers include larger deep-water fish that can only be caught by deep-water fishing in some form of boat.14 The earliest boats were rafts made from papyrus reeds, similar to those depicted in later tomb scenes depicting fishing and fowling. Temporary papyrus boats enabled hunter/gatherer groups to travel across and along the river between seasonal camp sites. Egyptian mythology often refers to the use of papyrus boats by the gods, during the ‘time of the gods’ that is before the formation of the Egyptian state. Papyrus boats continued to be used in Pharaonic times for fishing and fowling along the river, but they also retained their religious symbolism as the craft used by the forces of order who entered the wetlands to defeat the forces of chaos.
As the Egyptians adopted Neolithic lifeways (approximately 5500 BCE), including the introduction of agriculture and animal husbandry, they continued their reliance on boats to utilise the resources of the Nile. It is likely that wooden boats were first developed at this time, with sedentary villagers investing greater effort to construct more permanent boats suitable for fishing, fowling and transportation. Later evidence suggests that the earliest wooden boats were typically of a shell construction, that is a combination of planks joined together with mortise-and-tenon joints and then sewn together to form a keel-less hull.15 It is possible that some of the earliest Neolithic boats were owned communally, with each plank being held by a member of the village when not in use.16 Although there are a few simple models of boats dating to the Neolithic period, it is with the rise of chiefdoms during the Egyptian Predynastic period (3700 to 3050 BCE) that there is evidence of widespread use of boats.
The Egyptian Predynastic period is characterised by numerous boat depictions, including what appears to be a recurring maritime theme on rock art and decorated pottery of that period.17 There are three types of boat depiction during the Egyptian Predynastic period: the papyrus boat, the ceremonial boat and the war-canoe.18
Papyrus boats were still being built in Africa until recent times, in Lake Tana and Chad, and their method of construction provides insight into their Ancient Egyptian equivalents. Egyptian papyrus boats were constructed using dried papyrus plants (each up to 5m high and 15cm thick at the base) bound together to form bundles, which were then tied together to form the desired boat shape. The narrow ends would be raised and tied back to form an upright bow and stern. While single papyrus bundles were used to fish or cross the Nile, quite complex papyrus boats were also constructed by binding multiple large papyrus bundles and could be up to 15m long and 3m wide.19
The ceremonial boats were most likely developed from the larger papyrus boats with upturned ends, used for chiefly ceremonies and other ritual purposes. By the Egyptian Predynastic period they had grown in size and hence a stronger wooden construction was required, although they retained the basic shape of the original papyrus boat with the raised bow and stern. Pharaonic models of divine barks and funerary barks clearly show that the raised bow and stern form was retained.
War-canoes were most important from the viewpoint of the origin of naval forces and ancient sea power. The Neolithic wooden boats grew in size during the Predynastic period to accommodate larger crews. The resulting long thin boats developed into war-canoes with two rows of paddlers, papyrus shelters, a steering oar, a standard and typically a branch on the bow. They were constructed from two wooden side lengths and a wooden bottom length made from thin planks sewn together. Such war-canoes varied in length from approximately 15m for 20 oarsmen (small war-canoe), 27m for 52 oarsmen (large war-canoe), and 38m for 80 oarsmen (maximum crew size).20 It is also possible that sails were used during most of the Predynastic period, as diamond shaped representations with ‘masts’ have of ten been interpreted as temporary sails. The earliest depiction of a sail on a boat can be dated to the end of the Predynastic period, about 3050 BCE.
Great reference. SOme of the war canoes recorded deeper into the continent are as big as, or exceed the Egyptian example mentioned above. (African Military Systems- wiki).
Some canoes were 80 feet in length, carrying 100 men or more. Documents from 1506 for example, refer to war-canoes on the Sierra Leone river, carrying 120 men. Others refer to Guinea coast peoples using canoes of varying sizes- some 70 feet in length, 7-8 ft broad, with sharp pointed ends, rowing benches on the side, and quarter decks or focastles build of reeds, and miscellaneous facilities such as cooking hearths, and storage spaces for crew sleeping mats. [85] The warriors in some of these accounts were armed with spears, shields and arrows, and were expected to row as well. Each rower kept a bundle of throwing javelins and his shield next to him to repel enemy canoes.
Nor were these simply tribal hordes sallying forth on dugouts, but systematically organized units for battle and logistics. In some empires, maritime assets were systematically organized into military and civil spheres.
"In war, the canoe performed an important logistics function. The empires of Mali and Songhay for example used canoes to move troops, horses and material quickly to many parts of the realm, as well as for trade and general transport. In Songhay, a Chief of the Waters oversaw all civil matters related to water transport, and a Chief of Canoes supervised naval operations. Big war canoes in this region drew a clear distinction between rowers, (usually 18 to 20) and marine troops (some 70-80 warriors). The boats were equipped with all the necessary provisions and supplies for their mission."
Historical Great Lakes naval clash between 2 East African kingdoms
On the coasts of course, various other vessels and peoples engaged in trade etc from the Red Sea, to the Indian Ocean.
Posts: 5905 | From: The Hammer | Registered: Aug 2008
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See Appendix 1 for an extensive chart of more than 2600 years of AE maritime operations.
Good find this article. The author has a section in there on the "Western way" and the argument that Western 'freedom' is linked with sea power. But the author questions it somewhat- noting that the imperialist regimes of Europe also used sea power to maintain their hegemony, not always as a means of generating "freedom or the so-called Western values of liberalism, democracy and capitalism."
Sea Power and the Opening of the Western Mind Many of today’s naval historians, brought up within a Western academic tradition, have seen a link between the liberal democratic and capitalist traditions and the rise of sea power. One widely renowned scholar has even suggested that maritime supremacy was responsible for the development of today’s Western beliefs and systems of government, ‘the opening of the Western mind' and that the distinguishing mark of maritime power is freedom.
"Both trade and consultative government require the widest dissemination of information and free expression of opinion; thus the basic freedoms of trade spread through all areas of life, tending to break down social hierarchies and the grip of received ideas, creating more open, mobile and enterprising cultures. Liberty has always been the pride and rallying cry of powers enjoying maritime supremacy."35
Such thinking may be traced back to the seminal works in naval strategy written by Alfred T. Mahan and Julian S. Corbett before the outbreak of World War I; at a time when European maritime empires had spread across the globe.36 Using the British Empire and Royal Navy as examples, these early naval strategists emphasised the importance of commercial trade and sea communications toward achieving maritime supremacy. Both however, contained underlying assumptions that Western liberal democratic forms of government and free enterprise capitalist economies were both prerequisites for becoming and remaining a global sea power. Other scholars have emphasised the superiority of ‘independent supreme commanders, innovative soldiers and a sovereign legislature’, over ‘rigid hierarchy and complete submission of the individual’.37 The supposed superiority of the ‘Western way of war’ is more apparent than real.38
The advantage of using evidence of ancient history and archaeology is that it can extend our comparative telescope over thousands of years instead of hundreds of years. Over the previous pages it has become clear that the rise of Egypt was a very long process, undertaken over thousands of years, characterised by increasing political power, social complexity, economic organisation and trade, as well as increasingly complex religious beliefs and other ideological factors. It is possible that increased naval power did help the state formation process along the path towards an integrated Egyptian territorial state. But what of the so-called Western institutions? Where are the liberal democratic and capitalist traditions in Ancient Egypt?
Ancient Egyptian society was a formidable kingdom with a king exercising the power of life and death over his subjects, and where a centralised bureaucracy controlled all trading, economic and religious activities. In such a society there was little room for liberal democratic and capitalist ideologies. However, Ancient Egyptian society was not static. During the height of the Old, Middle and New Kingdoms, the royal power was strongest; but during the three intermediate periods, actual royal power was weak and there were effectively many warlords and small states within Egypt rather than a unified Egyptian state. The actual extent of Egyptian sea power also fluctuated in association with Egyptian royal power, and it will be possible to see how the characteristics of actual Egyptian maritime operations changed over time when the evidence is examined later in this book.
There is a noticeable trend in the rise of Ancient Egyptian sea power. The earliest growth of Egyptian sea power occured during a period of relatively high individual freedom and coincided with great advances in the arts, crafts, technology, language and cultural identity. But Egyptian sea power remained quite strong after the formation of the Egyptian state, even when the society was strongly centralised, bureaucratic and authoritarian. If the rise of early modern European maritime states and their Western liberal democratic and capitalist traditions are reconsidered, it is possible to see a parallel development.40 The freedoms cherished by the early European mercantile communities that precipitated the rise of global maritime empires gradually gave way to more centralised maritime states, which used maritime and naval forces to generate and maintain worldwide empires.41 Modern Western maritime states maintain powerful forces that have the ability to exercise sea power across the globe, under centralised and authoritarian command. Western sea powers – those nations with strong maritime traditions – do not automatically generate freedom or the so-called Western values of liberalism, democracy and capitalism. Rather, all societies, should consciously safeguard the values that they most cherish.
Posts: 5905 | From: The Hammer | Registered: Aug 2008
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quote:Originally posted by zarahan: Great reference. Some of the war canoes recorded deeper into the continent are as big as, or exceed the Egyptian example mentioned above. (African Military Systems- wiki).
Some canoes were 80 feet in length, carrying 100 men or more. Documents from 1506 for example, refer to war-canoes on the Sierra Leone river, carrying 120 men. Others refer to Guinea coast peoples using canoes of varying sizes- some 70 feet in length, 7-8 ft broad, with sharp pointed ends, rowing benches on the side, and quarter decks or focastles build of reeds, and miscellaneous facilities such as cooking hearths, and storage spaces for crew sleeping mats. [85] The warriors in some of these accounts were armed with spears, shields and arrows, and were expected to row as well. Each rower kept a bundle of throwing javelins and his shield next to him to repel enemy canoes.
Nor were these simply tribal hordes sallying forth on dugouts, but systematically organized units for battle and logistics. In some empires, maritime assets were systematically organized into military and civil spheres.
"In war, the canoe performed an important logistics function. The empires of Mali and Songhay for example used canoes to move troops, horses and material quickly to many parts of the realm, as well as for trade and general transport. In Songhay, a Chief of the Waters oversaw all civil matters related to water transport, and a Chief of Canoes supervised naval operations. Big war canoes in this region drew a clear distinction between rowers, (usually 18 to 20) and marine troops (some 70-80 warriors). The boats were equipped with all the necessary provisions and supplies for their mission."
Historical Great Lakes naval clash between 2 East African kingdoms
On the coasts of course, various other vessels and peoples engaged in trade etc from the Red Sea, to the Indian Ocean.
Excellent snippet about the naval capablities of other Africans further south, Zaharan! It's info like this you don't hear much about.
Getting back to the Egyptians, I find it more than coincidence that the Israelite Book of Nations lists a couple of the earliest sea-faring nations to be of Egyptian origin and that ancient Greek stories such as the Argive legends say the Egyptians were the first to build and sail ships.
Posts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
A little something on West African riverain war canoes and sea power -
quote:
... African armies became aware of the new dangers, and Portuguese ships began to meet their match. For example, in 1446, two years later, a ship commanded by Nuno Tristao attempted to land in the Senegal region. It was attacked by African fighters in canoes, and the crew of the ship was wiped out. And in 1447, a Danish raider commanding a Portuguese ship was killed, along with most of his crew, when local African boats attacked.
Although African vessels -- mostly canoes -- were not designed for high-seas navigation, they were fully capable of protecting the coast, even in the 15th century. As a result, in 1456, the king of Portugal dispatched his ambassador, Diogo Gomes, to negotiate treaties of peace and trade with the African rulers along the coast. From that point on, and for 400 years, the African slave trade was conducted as a matter of international commerce among equals.
- sea power made naval commanders elite because of the connection between merchants, kings, and colonialism.
quote:Originally posted by zarahan: Great reference. SOme of the war canoes recorded deeper into the continent are as big as, or exceed the Egyptian example mentioned above. (African Military Systems- wiki).
Some canoes were 80 feet in length, carrying 100 men or more. Documents from 1506 for example, refer to war-canoes on the Sierra Leone river, carrying 120 men. Others refer to Guinea coast peoples using canoes of varying sizes- some 70 feet in length, 7-8 ft broad, with sharp pointed ends, rowing benches on the side, and quarter decks or focastles build of reeds, and miscellaneous facilities such as cooking hearths, and storage spaces for crew sleeping mats. [85] The warriors in some of these accounts were armed with spears, shields and arrows, and were expected to row as well. Each rower kept a bundle of throwing javelins and his shield next to him to repel enemy canoes.
Nor were these simply tribal hordes sallying forth on dugouts, but systematically organized units for battle and logistics. In some empires, maritime assets were systematically organized into military and civil spheres.
"In war, the canoe performed an important logistics function. The empires of Mali and Songhay for example used canoes to move troops, horses and material quickly to many parts of the realm, as well as for trade and general transport. In Songhay, a Chief of the Waters oversaw all civil matters related to water transport, and a Chief of Canoes supervised naval operations. Big war canoes in this region drew a clear distinction between rowers, (usually 18 to 20) and marine troops (some 70-80 warriors). The boats were equipped with all the necessary provisions and supplies for their mission."
Historical Great Lakes naval clash between 2 East African kingdoms
On the coasts of course, various other vessels and peoples engaged in trade etc from the Red Sea, to the Indian Ocean.
Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006
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posted
Thor Heyerdahl's Ra 1,built by African boatmen from Lake Chad,along the pattern of the ancient Egyptians. It left North Africa in 1969 and sailed as far as Barbados.The rudder broke early on the Ra,proving that an ancient drift journey in such a boat using Africa to America current was feasible.
The reason they ran into trouble was because Heyerdahl removed a line that ran from the curved tip of the ship to the afterdeck as is seen on Kemitic model.
Now you have to remember that this was not the most sophisticated boat the Kemites had in it's arsinal,The Cheop's boat was way more advanced
Posts: 6546 | From: japan | Registered: Feb 2009
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posted
WHEN KEMET RULED THE WAVES Black Spark WHITE FIRE Modified by Ackee
How did Kemet manage to project power across the Mediterraean Sea? During the 18th and 19th Dynasties,Kemet's enemy,the powerful Hittite Empire,was firmly incontrol of Asia Minor.The days when a Sesostris could march a land army into Europe had long gone. And in any case ,neither Crete nor the other Isle In the midst of the Great Green Sea were ever vulnerable to attack by land.
Clearly,the only way Kemet could have "trussed" the Haunebu and "struck" the Islanders(as Thutmose 3rd claimed to have done)or put them "in fear"(as Ramesses 2nd supposedly did)would have been to threaten the Aegean with a powerful navy.
The conquering pharaoh Thutmose 3rd made effective use of naval power in his invasion of Syria-Palestine. Thutmose's first move when he marched into the region was to size the harbors and equip them for heavy traffic.
"Every port town was supplied with every good thing..."says an incription of the time,"with ships of cedar loaded with columns and beams as well as timber.
Thutmose immediately put these harbors to work. In at least 13-teen successive campaigns against Syria-Palestine, Thutmose brought in his armies by sea-thus eliminating the need for a long overland march.
Posts: 6546 | From: japan | Registered: Feb 2009
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posted
@ Doug M or others,do you know if anyone did a test of the Khufu boat to see how it could perform on open ocean? it has a high bow,but how streamline was it in comparision to lets say a Viking boat. Plus the oars seems oddly placed.
Posts: 6546 | From: japan | Registered: Feb 2009
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^^ Many of those boats and vessels are not much different from ones ancient Egyptians used...
fishing rafts
larger ships
^ the lotus adornments this West African man makes is also strikingly similar to those worn by ancient Kemetians.
Posts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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