quote:Originally posted by Tee85: Does Pan-Africanism Really Work???
No.
-------------------- "Oh the sons of Ethiopia; observe with care; the country called Ethiopia is, first, your mother; second, your throne; third, your wife; fourth, your child; fifth, your grave." - Ras Alula Aba Nega. Posts: 1024 | Registered: Jun 2006
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It will work when it is supposed to work.......
I guess the TIMING must be right for it to work. If the Europeans can get together, so can the Africans. And Pan-Africanism was around why before the conception of the "United Europe|". So it might not happen in our lifetime, but hopefully it will happen. Salaam
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quote:Originally posted by Israel: It will work when it is supposed to work.......
I guess the TIMING must be right for it to work. If the Europeans can get together, so can the Africans. And Pan-Africanism was around why before the conception of the "United Europe|". So it might not happen in our lifetime, but hopefully it will happen. Salaam
Half-right. The timing is nowhere near right. Africa isn't nearly democratic enough for Pan-Africanism to work (dictators don't relenquish power), and there needs to be decades more of close interaction for the wide differences in cultures to be bridged enough for the existence of a Pan-African state. The best course of action now, howeer, is for each state to attempt to modernize and build its economy.
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Africans must be optimistic about a continental union. It is their common responsibility to realize a dream of a united Africa. This is the only way to reverse the trend that has suppressed them, exploited and looted their human and natural resources. Africans cannot expect to escape this truth unless they all put hands together, work together, and sacrifice together with the enthusiasm to build a new continent that future generations will be proud of.
A united Africa will break exploitation as well as challenge the historical basis for slavery and colonialism in Africa. It will also bring to an end the ongoing use of Africa as the dumping ground for western toxic waste; for using Africa as the experimentation ground for western diplomatic and foreign policies.
Do Africans really know that Africa has 770 million people -- which will make the African Union one of the biggest and most attractive markets in the world? Do they know that the African Union is blessed with 40 percent of the world’s potential hydroelectric power supply, the bulk of the world’s diamond supply, over 90 percent of the world’s cobalt, 70 percent of its cocoa, 64 percent of its manganese, 60 percent of its coffee, and 50 percent of its palm oil? Do Africans recognize that they are the potential owners under a continental commonwealth of the 50 percent of the world’s phosphates, 50 percent of its gold production, 40 percent of its platinum, 30 percent of its uranium, and 20 percent of the total petroleum traded in the world market?
No other continent is blessed with what Africa is blessed with, and that is why the scramble for African resources led to the two world wars, and if not for the activities of the World Bank and IMF acting as referee and the clearinghouse among the western invisible emperors in the contemporary scramble, African resources would have caused a third world war. But why can’t Africans realize that in order to continuously control and exploit African resources, the west has had to help prop up dictators, as well as ignite civil and inter-ethnic wars around the continent so that while African brothers fight each other, their resources are not only exploited but almost always looted?
Why can’t Africans come to terms with the reality of the anarchic systems of divide and conquer? Can’t they realize that even the 1992 Sierra Leone civil war that claimed over 10,000 lives, displaced 300,000, put 200,000 men, women and children in refugee camps, and internally trapped over 400,000 people in a country of only 4.5 million people, was caused and perpetuated by some foreign countries, who wanted to share in the spoils of diamond and bauxite? Why can’t Africans realize that the same divide and conquer is what is happening in Angola with its 11.5 percent of the world’s known diamond deposits, as well as the Democratic Republic of Congo’s diamond warfare?
An African Defense Force (ADF), a Joint Standing Army, a Quick Responsive Police, all with the required expertise and logistics, multi-layered strategies and rapid mobilization, for example, will make Africans begin to live in peace, tranquility, and harmony. With Africa being peaceful and politically stable under a continental government, African leaders will then focus on the real business of the people, mapping out a new direction in areas of a continental foreign policy, defence, industrialization, economic and monetary policy, as well as health, education, and agricultural policies.
Do Africans know that Africa, with its abundant natural resources, vast market and human capital (currently brain drained), can afford closing its borders to protect its infant industries and can then begin to build a new continental economy? Do they really know that African Union resources can be quite huge making the continent to force several African natural resource cartels on the global market and get away with such a policy? More importantly, have Africans ever realized that an African Continental Congress as well as Continental President, will have such enormous power that they cannot be afraid to tell the entire world that either it takes the Union’s position on most global issues as they interest the continent, or Africa will not be involved?
Africans are yet to recognize the level of protection and pride they are bound to receive from such a powerful continental government; how else could they get away with their opinions anywhere in the world? The sacrifice must seem to be worth the price, so otherwise, Africans can’t get away from their present predicaments. They must now begin the journey, through a series of networks, conferences and workshops. This is their opportunity to achieve for themselves what George Washington, John Adams, Thomas Jefferson, Alexander Hamilton, and Benjamin Franklin achieved for the United States over 200 years ago.
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quote:Originally posted by Yom: Half-right. The timing is nowhere near right. Africa isn't nearly democratic enough for Pan-Africanism to work (dictators don't relenquish power), and there needs to be decades more of close interaction for the wide differences in cultures to be bridged enough for the existence of a Pan-African state. The best course of action now, howeer, is for each state to attempt to modernize and build its economy.
Couldn't have said it better myself. The reason why Europeans were able to unite much easier is simply because they lived in a small area or subcontinent and they had many centuries of interaction (through war). Africa on the other hand is much more vast entire continent and there has been little if any intracontental action other than trade. The main commonality that unites all Africans seems to be European colonization.
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It is a misconception to assume Europeans are "united", any more than the case is in Africa or elsewhere.
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I guess that depends. Some Europeans (mainly those in the Western areas) like to think of themselves as 'united' but I don't think Eastern Europeans like Slavs feel that way.
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I guess that depends. Some Europeans (mainly those in the Western areas) like to think of themselves as 'united' but I don't think Eastern Europeans like Slavs feel that way.
I suppose one could also make the claim that some Africans like to think of themselves as being "united" in some respects. As quick examples, i.e. aside from that of Slavs, one can recall the conflicts between the Irish in Northern Ireland and British forces, and more recently, conflicts in how do deal with geopolitical situations in the "Middle East". The "World Wars" are other distant visible examples of actual European "unity", not to mention the period spanning the so-called "Cold War" following the 2nd World War.
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How do the African nations modernize and yet keep their African soul? Simple question. That is an important question because more modernizing means more Western influence. And I feel that Western influence is in part why Africa has its problems. So, how do African nations develop a modern economy that keeps its Africaness, know what I mean? Keeping the "Africaness" is one of the objectives of Pan-Africanism.......
Also, since this site is about Egypt, it is a healthy question to ask what is the place of Egypt within a Pan-African paradigm....? Salaam.
Posts: 826 | From: U.S.A. | Registered: Jun 2006
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quote:How do the African nations modernize and yet keep their African soul? Simple question. That is an important question because more modernizing means more Western influence.
Japan addressed this delimma 100 years ago.
Arab/Islam are grappling with it now. This is the underlying cause of the mideast issue of which Palestine is only a pretext.
Culture's differ in their adaptability.
Those that can't adapt, well..........
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How do the African nations modernize and yet keep their African soul? Simple question. That is an important question because more modernizing means more Western influence. And I feel that Western influence is in part why Africa has its problems. So, how do African nations develop a modern economy that keeps its Africaness, know what I mean? Keeping the "Africaness" is one of the objectives of Pan-Africanism.......
Also, since this site is about Egypt, it is a healthy question to ask what is the place of Egypt within a Pan-African paradigm....? Salaam.
HISTORY. As long as Africans REJECT the paradigm of the West as being the greatest thing since sliced bread form of history taught in MOST former colonies, they will be able to do it. As long as they hold Western "culture" and "values" above their OWN CULTURE and VALUES, then there will be a hard time maintaining Africanness. If they knew their OWN HISTORY and how Europeans HAD NO VALUES and that the basis of Western culture is the DESTRUCTION OF NATIVE CIVILIZATIONS, then there would be no problem maintaining Africanness.
Posts: 8896 | Registered: May 2005
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The question about Pan-Africanism can be answered very easily if only one looks at the question pragmatically.
For the average African individual Pan-Africanism in practice would mean being able to travel to any African country without a visa and take up employment or abode. It would mean getting on a train or a plane with a continental or regional currency and not having to declare anything or be shaken down by Customs at any stop. THINK OF THE VAST U(nited)SA with its 50 states that allow travel from Hawaii to New York and from Alaska to key West--something that African migrants to the US really love. They can hop on plane and fly from Los Angeles to New York just to look for a job or just to change schools. No complaints here.
The same holds for VAST China(1.3 billion people spread over an area about 30% of Africa) which in reality is the UNITED REGIONS OF CHINA--with its different cultures and languages--all held together by a sense of history and a sense of being East Asian.
It would also mean that educational standard and paradigms would be fairly uniform t hroughout the continent. As of now African education is bedeviled by the fact that there's a Francophone system--just a copy of the French system--an Anglophone system--based principally on the British system--and an Lusitaphone system--a direct transplant from Portugal.
It would mean that it would no longer be necessary to have telephone calls, etc. routed through Europe before they are received in neighbouring African countries.
It would mean that there would be effective Pan African institutions such as an African Parliament, African Union forces--the West is pushing hard against such an idea with its less than enthusiastic response to the present African Union Forces now in Darfur, Sudan. There's a relentless push to have such troops replaced by UN troops--an an African Court of Justice, and inter-African research centres in Science, Technology and Medicine. Think of successful European efforts such as CERN and Airbus.
It would also mean that off-shore communities such as Haiti, Jamaica, North East Brazil, etc. would be rightfully incorporated into a Pan-African Commonwealth.
And a significant precedent has been set millenia ago, with the unification of Upper and Lower Egypt under the unifier king Menes.
For the sceptics: please note that the world's largest nations are like continents in terms of size and are all run by Europeans: Russia(ex-USSSR--a vast expanse of real estate), Canada( a mini-continent), USA(a vast expanse of some 50 states all held together by its Federal Institutions), Australia(a continent), Brazil( a virtual continent run by Europeans)and now the European Union with its Euro currency and its supranational institutions.
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posted
Pan-Africanism is not an abstract concept but an ongoing, concrete historical process, and in order to properly understand this process - it must be studied. The question "Does Pan-Africanism Really Work??" is a (purposely?? ) naive question - of course it's working...
posted
On point Lamin. I could probably weep on the day that we see the dream that you have so accurately described become a reality........
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posted
A minor example of what Pan Africanism should be--"The African Nations Cup"--football. Starting on 20th January. Check it out--TV and the Internet--to see some of the world's best professional footballers, most of whom are stars on their European professional teams.
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posted
The other day on youtube I ran into two very anti-EU videos, one England nationalist, the other, Turk nationalist. Neither of the users seemed to like other Euro nations much AT ALL.
quote:Originally posted by Wally: Pan-Africanism is not an abstract concept but an ongoing, concrete historical process, and in order to properly understand this process - it must be studied. The question "Does Pan-Africanism Really Work??" is a (purposely?? ) naive question - of course it's working...
quote: The other day on youtube I ran into two very anti-EU videos, one England nationalist, the other, Turk nationalist. Neither of the users seemed to like other Euro nations much AT ALL.
And if anyone thinks that was bad, you still didn't see the UK video (with regards to other Euro power, nations and immigrants in the UK).
Posts: 5555 | From: Tha 5th Dimension. | Registered: Apr 2006
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and ya boy "Egmond Codfried" started his first 20 threads and keeps flooding the forum with them. I'm sure you would like the imagery though.
Posts: 5555 | From: Tha 5th Dimension. | Registered: Apr 2006
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To answer your question - yes, Pan-Africanism is working. It is our most strategic competitive advantage. There is a substantial diaspora of African people in North and South America, Europe and the Middle East. This is our competitive advantage because this creates a natural market for products and trade as well as a distinct source of political leverage on behalf of Africa. Soon the global African presence will pass the 1 billion persons marker (if we have not allready passed this marker). We are a global people with the **ability** to wield substantial global power.
The fall of Western power is directly correlated to the rise we see in African economies. The global credit crisis is related to the stalling Western economies which are stalling because they no longer can leverage the free land and labor of African people. This has been the true engine driving the Western economies, not innovation. There was a bit of economic inertia following the end of slavery and colonialism, but the train has finally run into a deadend. Even with the global credit crisis, the African economies are predicted to still post above average growth rates.
African economies are benefiting from the rise of India, Brazil and China as well as the empowerment of Blacks in North America and South Africa. As India, Brazil and China rise and demand comodities pressure is placed on Western economies to compete for scarce resources and African commodity suppliers are empowered as it becomes a "sellers market". In addition, Western powers are weakend by the decline in total fertility in Europe and among White North Americans. Europe is now dependent upon African immigration as a cheap form of labor for an aging European population. In North and South America we see for the first time the Black Brazilian population becoming the largets demographic sector of an economically rising Brazil. In the USA the Obama election is a precursor of what is to come. In many parts of the SW USA hispanics now dominate demographically, especially among the youth. In the SE and NE USA Blacks and Afro-Latinos (Puerto Ricans and Dominicans) now dominate, especially among the youth. In many southern states in the USA Blacks are approaching 40% of the populations and exceed 40% among those 18 and under. This is a time of tremendous opportunity, dependent upon our ability to think and view are selves as a free and global people.
Posts: 2007 | From: Washington State | Registered: Oct 2006
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posted
I suppose pan-Africanism could work in a few decades, but the problem is that Africa is made up of tons of ethnic groups who don't like being forced to live in the same country; most African countries today were "drawn" with little attention to ethnicity. Therefore, you have a lot of ethnic strife within countries. If it were up to me, I would redraw the borders of African states to more accurately match the different ethnic groups so ethnic strife becomes less of a problem. It won't cure all of Africa's problems, but it would at least prevent a lot of civil wars.
posted
^There's alot of pan African attitude in places and ethnies you wouldn't expect to find it tho.
I've been thinking myself though about whether a major re- drawing of the maps would take place in the future.
I'm not sure that anything major will happen, but I will say that in alot of the pieces I imagine I'd draw up, lines still inevitably get drawn between connected folks/peoples who were influenced by eachother historically [proximity]. Where to draw the lines?
Or maybe, instead of completely redrawing things and living in the past, for the most part only slight national border changes should occur occording to ethny.
quote:Originally posted by Evergreen: Tee85: Does Pan-Africanism Really Work???
Evergreen Writes:
To answer your question - yes, Pan-Africanism is working. It is our most strategic competitive advantage. There is a substantial diaspora of African people in North and South America, Europe and the Middle East. This is our competitive advantage because this creates a natural market for products and trade as well as a distinct source of political leverage on behalf of Africa. Soon the global African presence will pass the 1 billion persons marker (if we have not allready passed this marker). We are a global people with the **ability** to wield substantial global power.
The fall of Western power is directly correlated to the rise we see in African economies. The global credit crisis is related to the stalling Western economies which are stalling because they no longer can leverage the free land and labor of African people. This has been the true engine driving the Western economies, not innovation. There was a bit of economic inertia following the end of slavery and colonialism, but the train has finally run into a deadend. Even with the global credit crisis, the African economies are predicted to still post above average growth rates.
African economies are benefiting from the rise of India, Brazil and China as well as the empowerment of Blacks in North America and South Africa. As India, Brazil and China rise and demand comodities pressure is placed on Western economies to compete for scarce resources and African commodity suppliers are empowered as it becomes a "sellers market". In addition, Western powers are weakend by the decline in total fertility in Europe and among White North Americans. Europe is now dependent upon African immigration as a cheap form of labor for an aging European population. In North and South America we see for the first time the Black Brazilian population becoming the largets demographic sector of an economically rising Brazil. In the USA the Obama election is a precursor of what is to come. In many parts of the SW USA hispanics now dominate demographically, especially among the youth. In the SE and NE USA Blacks and Afro-Latinos (Puerto Ricans and Dominicans) now dominate, especially among the youth. In many southern states in the USA Blacks are approaching 40% of the populations and exceed 40% among those 18 and under. This is a time of tremendous opportunity, dependent upon our ability to think and view are selves as a free and global people.
^ Excellent analysis.
Interesting how you made the connection between the coming rise of African economies and subsequent decline of western ones.
Demographically, things are surely looking up for the global African diaspora. It will be interesting to see how the highly educated and growing population of African immigrants to north America and Europe alter the political and social landscape as Obama is apparently doing now.
Posts: 426 | From: Cali-for-nia | Registered: Jan 2006
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Every vote counts. The POWER is in your hands!!!
Posts: 3423 | From: the jungle - when y'all stop playing games, call me. | Registered: Jul 2006
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posted
The emerging Afro-power in world politics Prof. Ali A. Mazrui
Mommar Gaddafi regards oil as a historic opportunity for present day Muslims to ensure an influential role for Islam in world affairs. But over the years Gaddafi’s nationalism has become partially secular. He does share the late Egyptian President Nasser’s ambition of leading the three worlds of Islam, Arabs, and Africans.
The West has often supported or subsidised dissident movements within the Third World, like Reagan’s support for UNITA in Angola and the Contras in Nicaragua. To Gaddafi, if it is acceptable for the West to destabilise the Third World, it must be all right for the Third World to destabilise the West.
Put another way, why are US dollars for Nicaraguan and Angolan rebels morally different from Gaddafi’s dollars for anti-West dissidents? The double standards are glaring. The universe of the exploited of the world is to be represented by Libya in North-South confrontations, in Gaddafi’s view.
There are other forms of power that Africa has dreamed of as instruments of global participation. The power of traditional sorcery and the power of modern science are cases in point. Are the legacies of a formerly divided Berlin a form of ‘haunting’ for that city’s hosting of the Berlin Conference of 1884-85 to divide up Africa?
But sorcery need not be an alternative to science; it can be its reinforcement. And the most secret of all sciences by Western rules is nuclear technology. Should Africa break the conspiracy of nuclear silence and acquire nuclear know how itself? The West insists, ‘Nuclear weapons are not suitable for Africans and children under sixteen.’ Can Africa afford to be so marginalised?
Though the United States is vehemently opposed to the development of nuclear capabilities by Iraq, Iran, and North Korea, there is no consensus on what qualifies a country to be a nuclear power. There is room here for a new kind of Black Power in the new millennium. The current nuclear club is not sustainable.
Two sets of Blacks will be the vanguard of the black world in the twenty first century: Black Americans, by the power of sheer numbers which qualify them as a vital voting bloc in the United States, and Black South Africans, heirs to both mineral wealth and industrial pre-eminence in Africa.
The shift from Afro-passivity to Afro-activism is climbing to a new plateau of leverage and influence. But, in the final analysis, the battle of ideas must continue and Africa must not just be a learner, but also a teacher; not just an imitator of others but a model in her own right.
The most important of all lessons, when all is said and done, is a transition from a traditional belief that ‘my tribe is the world’ to a new globalist vision, ‘the world is my tribe; the human race my family.’ Africa is not an isolated island, and must exercise its rightful roles in an increasingly global world community.
As Africa insists on its rights in its relationship with other world regions, it must stand ready to selectively borrow, adapt, and creatively formulate its strategies for planned development. After all, Africa’s contribution to the pool of immigrant human capital in the United States and Brazil is higher than that from other world regions. This should not be a one-way exchange, and so African countries ought to devise strategies to tap into the global pool of human capital for development.
Genuine development of the African continent is possible and sustainable only when we can reconcile with our ancestors and also forge new relationships with the wider world, with mutual respect and full dignity.
Our triple heritage of indigenous, Islamic and Western forces can serve as catalysts for growth and development, if we find the right communicative environment. Africa is the most resilient of all the continents.
After all, the Africans are a people of the day before yesterday and a people of the day after tomorrow. Destiny has spread Africans so widely that the sun never sets on the descendants of the continent. If the world is a village today, it began as an African village in the mists of antiquity.
Prof. Mazrui teaches political science and African studies at the New York State University, Binghamton and Cornell University
-------------------- Black Roots. Posts: 2007 | From: Washington State | Registered: Oct 2006
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How do the African nations modernize and yet keep their African soul? Simple question. That is an important question because more modernizing means more Western influence. And I feel that Western influence is in part why Africa has its problems. So, how do African nations develop a modern economy that keeps its Africaness, know what I mean? Keeping the "Africaness" is one of the objectives of Pan-Africanism.......
Also, since this site is about Egypt, it is a healthy question to ask what is the place of Egypt within a Pan-African paradigm....? Salaam.
What the hell is keeping their "Africaness". Africans was able to be "African" for thousands of years all to themselves and it didn't work. Being "African" led them into submission, captivity, slavery, and colonism. The world is living in a Western world. No one can't ignore that. Being stubborn is just going to make Africa fall back even farther. They need to move on with the rest of humanity and they can't do that by sticking to their "Africaness". They will have to ditch a lot of things 'African' and adopt a lot of things 'western' in which they already begun and that accounts for some of their progress - the little they do have.
Posts: 2088 | Registered: Feb 2007
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quote:Originally posted by T. Rex: I suppose pan-Africanism could work in a few decades, but the problem is that Africa is made up of tons of ethnic groups who don't like being forced to live in the same country; most African countries today were "drawn" with little attention to ethnicity. Therefore, you have a lot of ethnic strife within countries. If it were up to me, I would redraw the borders of African states to more accurately match the different ethnic groups so ethnic strife becomes less of a problem. It won't cure all of Africa's problems, but it would at least prevent a lot of civil wars.
This is so thoughtful and rational. People think Pan-Africanism doesn't work because of timing. Pan-Africanism doesn't work because Africans love being tribal. Lack of interactions is due to tribalism. Since they can't ditch the tribalism mentality, I don't blame them it is in their blood, they need to make more states or province within their boundaries that would house certain ethnic groups. Once that can happen, then they can work on real 'nationlism' beginnining with each state. If each province/state can work on progress and development in all avenues it will give an effective outcome for the whole country. You unite by 'setting aside' those things that are common and let [it] assemble itself from there.
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quote:Originally posted by Bettyboo: [QUOTE]Pan-Africanism doesn't work because Africans love being tribal.
Evergreen Writes:
Untrue. Africans were the **FIRST** people to advance to the state-level of political economy. The oldest state-level society was ancient egypt.
Posts: 2007 | From: Washington State | Registered: Oct 2006
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posted
^ African "tribes" are also "notorious" for their " hospitality " to "outsiders".
Pan-Africanism then shouldn't be a problem for most African "tribes".
Posts: 3423 | From: the jungle - when y'all stop playing games, call me. | Registered: Jul 2006
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quote:Originally posted by HORUS of EDFU: ^ African "tribes" are also "notorious" for their " hospitality " to "outsiders".
Pan-Africanism then shouldn't be a problem for most African "tribes".
You fvcking idiot. Their hospitality led them into colonialism. Of course they are hospitable to 'other' people. Sorry it is not the same for those within their borders. They love to butcher and sacrifice each other.
Posts: 2088 | Registered: Feb 2007
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quote:Originally posted by HORUS of EDFU: ^ African "tribes" are also "notorious" for their " hospitality " to "outsiders".
Pan-Africanism then shouldn't be a problem for most African "tribes".
You fvcking idiot. Their hospitality led them into colonialism.
^ I know. And so, this hospitality towards eachother will result in the opposite: a superpower.
Isn't it great? We have seen the affects of colonialism and this has thrown us in the opposite direction.
And actually it's not so simple. Our hospitality makes us superior, it's the tribalism that needs to be purged.
Posts: 5555 | From: Tha 5th Dimension. | Registered: Apr 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Bettyboo: [QUOTE]Pan-Africanism doesn't work because Africans love being tribal.
Evergreen Writes:
Untrue. Africans were the **FIRST** people to advance to the state-level of political economy. The oldest state-level society was ancient egypt.
the oldest state-level society was really south of egypt.it that article too nigeria is a major vanguard too because of the growing population size and growing military power.
another fact, about 26 african nations do have nuclear technology like south africa,nigeria,ghana etc.
Posts: 2688 | Registered: Jul 2004
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quote:the oldest state-level society was really south of egypt.it that article too nigeria is a major vanguard too because of the growing population size and growing military power.
another fact, about 26 african nations do have nuclear technology like south africa,nigeria,ghana etc.
Kenndo, I'm ignorant: what else do you know about Africa's technological development?
Posts: 5555 | From: Tha 5th Dimension. | Registered: Apr 2006
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