posted
Early Prophets of the Mormon Church taught that this mark of Cain was a black skin. They were also said to have believed that the real curse on all who bore the mark of Cain was that, they would be forbidden to attain Mormon priesthood.
A Mormon scripture attributed to Abraham, quotes him as saying that: "we were told that, this curse of a black skin was carried across the flood through the black-skinned Egyptian Wife of Ham, the son of Noah."
In Pearl of Great Price, Abraham is again quoted as saying that, "Now Pharaoh, being of that lineage " could not be admitted into the priesthood, therefore all blacks who Mormons believed at the time were from that lineage were banned from priesthood.
Early Mormon leaders had many racist and bigoted things to say about blacks under the guise of their touted special revelatory spiritual knowledge.
Joseph Smith's successor, Brigham Young - the second prophet of the church whom Mormons believe, led them to the Salt Lake Valley after they had been chased out of New York and also out of Mavou- along the swamp of the Mississippi river due to their religion.
Brigham Young, in whose memory the Brigham Young University, which now hosts Jake Obetsebi- Lamptey's daughter, was named, was the most vocal in the campaign against blacks.
"You see some classes of the human family that are black are uncouth, uncomely, disagreeable and low in their habits, and seemingly without the blessing of the intelligence that is generally bestowed upon mankind.. Cain slew his brother.. And the Lord put a mark on him, which is a flat nose and a black skin.
"Shall I tell you the law of the God in regard to the African race? If the white who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty, under the law of God is death on the spot. This will always be so."
posted
All I gotta say is despite the blatantly obvioius and insidiously racist lies the Mormons casted from Biblical writings, at least they acknowledged the simple fact that Biblical writings did indeed identify the Egyptians as blacks. If that is what the author of this thread wanted to point out, then so be it.
But other than that, as Rasol said, the very nature of Mormon faith is ludicrous including racist.
Posts: 26267 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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I guess there would be some black American neo-nazis too if they'd let 'em in. If you can't beat 'em oooh then join 'em! I know everyone loves a winner ... but, damn.
Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006
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posted
I've known and worked with black men who would've joined the KKK, if they could've passed the physical.The worst were Roman Catholic and all were conservative.
Look at some of the colored faces that the conservatives have frontin' for them, Clarence Thomas, Jay Parker, Roy Innis, the list is long.
During the anti-apartheid movement in the US, these creatures were tripping over each other (and being well paid) to contribute their 'different' ideas to the African-American community.
quote:Originally posted by alTakruri: I guess there would be some black American neo-nazis too if they'd let 'em in. If you can't beat 'em oooh then join 'em! I know everyone loves a winner ... but, damn.
quote:Originally posted by Kamui R.: I've known and worked with black men who would've joined the KKK, if they could've passed the physical.The worst were Roman Catholic and all were conservative...
That's cuz they only following the natural order of things!
Posts: 26267 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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''I've known and worked with black men who would've joined the KKK, if they could've passed the physical.The worst were Roman Catholic and all were conservative...''
Anecdotal comments say nothing about whether your statement can be true even though rhetorical. How about some background on this. In the same vein I can say David Duke loves integration. I'm thinking your comment will have nothing to do with Blacks as Mormons but rather Blacks who may be hard on criminals in the hood.
Posts: 2118 | From: midwest, USA | Registered: Aug 2007
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posted
Getting back to the topic, the only thing of value to this forum the topic has is the simple fact that Mormons acknowledged the Biblical identification of Egyptians as descendants of Ham or black people, despite the added lie of a "curse" of blackness (LOL sounds like something Uncle Ruckus would preach).
The strange thing is that all white Christians, not just the Mormons, acknowledged this fact of the Bible albeit their distortion on the curse as being all of Ham's descendants being black. So why then that it seems today's white Christians or most from what I can tell act like they have never heard of the Egyptians identified as black from the Bible??
Posts: 26267 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
I might add my 2 cetns here-- try finding in the Bible God's condemnation of SLAVERY-all Bible believers do have a hard time with that topic..
However Mormons did have some Black slaves but as a rule they considered them to be SERVENTS of Indentured Servitude to Whites until the Curse of Canaan(proclaimed by Noah) should be removed as per Brigham Young
Hence Young enacted the (in Feb 1852) Law for Indentured Servitude (from 1847-52 there was about 100 BALck salves in Utah)
I guess there would be some black American neo-nazis too if they'd let 'em in. If you can't beat 'em oooh then join 'em! I know everyone loves a winner ... but, damn.
These have got to be the most ignorant black people on the planet. Do they lack that much confidence? Wow ... I wish you had the ability to enlarge UNBELIEVABLE much larger then what you've presented above...
Posts: 951 | From: where rules end and freedom begins | Registered: Jun 2004
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posted
why is the middle man attacked concerning this issue of the black skin of ham and not the source of these teachings? Why hate on the mormons when the bringer of the religion was admitedly known to come from a judeo-christian background. The arabs at least would quote teh very source of what they would say about blacks. most stereotypes about blacks believe it or not have their roots in greco-latin and jewish scholars. The bible has no mentioning of blackskin curse of ham.
quote: Soon we find legendary Jewish scholars like Moses Maimonides, a man who The Encyclopedia of the Jewish Religion refers to as "the symbol of the pure and orthodox faith," spewing racist themes in his Guide to the Perplexed:
"[T]he Negroes found in the remote South, and those who resemble them from among them that are with us in these climes. The status of those is like that of irrational animals. To my mind they do not have the rank of men, but have among the beings a rank lower than the rank of man but higher than the rank of apes. For they have the external shape and lineaments of a man and a faculty of discernment that is superior to that of the apes."
Ideas were spread in those times the same way spices, rum and pork were spread--by way of the international merchants. The Jews monopolized this commerce, and these same Jewish merchant/travelers in the 12th century were denigrating the "sons of Ham" in their writings about the Africans. In the American South, the Jewish peddler was held in high esteem and eagerly anticipated by his rural, slaveholding customers for the goods and news, and for his Biblical ruminations. I suspect that this--multiplied by many centuries and many peddlers and many nations--is how a tiny Talmudic kernel can be made the universal creed
quote:Many people have adopted the mantle of "Chosen People" via the Hamitic Myth including the Puritans, the Jews, the Boers, the Afrikaners, and the Nazis, among many others. Even the Cherokees used it to justify their enslavement of the African (interestingly, it was "mixed-blood" Cherokees who engaged in this practice, just as it was mulatto "Blacks" who held African slaves). Southern Christians then used the same Hamitic Myth to justify the extermination of the Cherokees. Christians further employed the "Chosen People" myth of the slaveholding ancient Hebrews to justify their own slaveholding. Whites have even gone so far as to say that the snake in the Garden of Eden was the Black Man.
quote:The slave trade to the Islamic world put the Myth to full use, and Islamic clerics expounded on the curse of Blackness (Brackman also reveals [p. 96] that many of the "camel-riding" slave traders were Jewish). Colonial missionaries like Cotton Mather of Massachusetts adopted the Myth as did the Boers of South Africa. It was roared from hundreds of American pulpits--North and South. Belgian colonizers appropriated it when they installed Tutsi overlords over former Hutu kingdoms, leading to the horrifying violence in Rawanda and Burundi. It is also said to be the basis of the Plessy v. Ferguson ruling. The founder of Mormons, Joseph Smith, and high official Brigham Young both used the Myth to condemn the Back man and exclude his participation in their cult. The Jehovah's Witnesses readily printed it as fact in the Watchtower.
so everybody dipped into this cookie jar due to a thing called influence.
quote:Harold Brackman
Dr. Harold Brackman is a hired critic of the Nation of Islam and Hon. Louis Farrakhan. He received his Ph.D. from the University of California in 1977 on the basis of a dissertation he wrote entitled "The Ebb and Flow of Conflict: The History of Black-Jewish Relations Through 1900." It is unpublished but available through University Microfilms International Dissertation Services, Ann Arbor, Michigan. Brackman's 632-page dissertation discusses the Jewish invention of the profoundly racist Hamitic Myth. Brackman wrote:
"There is no denying that the [Jewish] Babylonian Talmud was the first source to read a Negrophobic content into the episode by stressing Canaan's fraternal connection with Cush.
-------------------- لا اله الا الله و محمد الرسول الله Posts: 495 | From: anchorage, alaska | Registered: Feb 2007
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posted
i remember a sudanese guy telling a bunch of muslims in the mosque who happened to be of the african persuasion that we should keep on our studies because they already think that we cant think or reason. I realized by reading arabic tareekh what he was talking about. My great- great-great aunt in north carolina who had extensive traveling as a layman once told me the same thing concerning the curse but she also said that it was actually the lighterskinned peoples who were cursed.
-------------------- لا اله الا الله و محمد الرسول الله Posts: 495 | From: anchorage, alaska | Registered: Feb 2007
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posted
Because while the story originated from Iraqi Jews they nonetheless still had blacks that came from Shem. The very same Talmud -- in which are presented diverse and opposing opinions on all of its subject matter -- mentions black Kohaniym (priests), the very rank (priesthood) that Mormons denied to blacks whether from Shem or Hham.
There is a difference in etiology and discrimination.
This Jewish source sees all skin colors as a blessing:
quote:... blessed Noahh and his sons -- as it says: "And God blessed them" -- with their gifts, and he apportioned the entire earth to them as an inheritance.
He especially blessed Shem and his sons black and beautiful and he gave them the habitable earth.
He blessed Hham and his sons black like the raven and he gave them the sea coasts.
He blessed Yapheth and his sons entirely white and he gave them the desert and its fields.
These are the portions he gave them as an inheritance.
(PIRQE DE RABBI ELIEZER Ch24)
Where do Mormons say black is a blessing?
quote:Originally posted by abdulkarem3: why is the middle man attacked concerning this issue of the black skin of ham and not the source of these teachings?
Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006
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posted
They dont. The mormons are basically new in comparison to when the myth was founded. When they came out it was an ingrained speculative knowledge that was famous around the western dominated world. they are merely following what was considered knowledge due to the interpretation held by top jewish scholars ages ago that transferred to the western church and in actuality the known world. The same with egyptologist. It became a base scientific rule amongst the western world that anything african was non-civilization. any african civilization was from outsiders. I say who was the instigator to sell africans worldwide. Jews or mormons who are not even recorded of having slaves. Did teh world recieve this myth from mormons? It is just a simple fact nothing more or less. just like one's mother is the same who bore and nurtured but also the same who spanked your ass.
-------------------- لا اله الا الله و محمد الرسول الله Posts: 495 | From: anchorage, alaska | Registered: Feb 2007
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posted
amos 9:7( are not you israelites the same to me as the cushites declares the lord) under title israel to be destroyed in reference to their sins philo cleverly drew on the phonetic similiarity in the t(h)-P base found in aithiops and tapeinos and concluded that the name ethiopia is derived from a name that means cowardice
aristotle is quoted to have said that those who are to black are cowardice like the egyptians and the ethiopians (for they believed it was because of the climate teh reasons of their cowardice)
raoul lonis refers to babacar diop who argued that philo's thinking derives from a negative egyptian-ethiopian theme found in the first-century Hellenistic Judaism in Alexandria although he admits that other hellinistic-jewish sources portray the ethiopian in a positive light.
There are praises and then there are put downs but they all come from the same source source the curse of ham: Race and slavery in early judaism , christianity and islam david m. goldberg
-------------------- لا اله الا الله و محمد الرسول الله Posts: 495 | From: anchorage, alaska | Registered: Feb 2007
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posted
Obviously it was Muslims who have done so since the 7th century and continue to do so even now.
But don't forget the real issue, the role of a black in the religion. While blackness is a bar in Mormonism it was no such device for either Jews or Muslims.
quote:Originally posted by abdulkarem3: I say who was the instigator to sell africans worldwide.
Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006
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