Some political circles seem to have been very successful at exploiting Black/Mexican (not Latino, since many Latinos are Black!!!) differences in the democratic primaries. This thread is dedicated to exploring the Mediterranean Centrism that evolved in Spain at the end of the inquisition and spread to colonial Mexico. What is the impact of this belief system on the relationships between modern Blacks and Mexican-Americans?
Posts: 2007 | From: Washington State | Registered: Oct 2006
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I went to Spain (Barcelona) last year and I had the wierdest race experience ever.
I was with my bird who looks like a typical Latino. The men looked absolutely shocked and angered when they saw us together. I got stares, bad service etc pretty much all the time and what was most sad ... a lot of the Spanish people looked like South-Americans. Now, in London where I live, South-Americans and Africans tend to take the same side in racial matters, but not in Spain...
Almost all the Black people (nearly none, except for a sprinkle of very sad looking Black women with Spanish men) I saw were doing very shitty jobs and didn't seem to have any presence at all. I'm definitely not going back there. London seems to be the only place I can tolerate in Europe ... okay, maybe Paris too (I love the Champs Elysées ).
Posts: 3423 | From: the jungle - when y'all stop playing games, call me. | Registered: Jul 2006
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"Almost all the Black people (nearly none, except for a sprinkle of very sad looking Black women with Spanish men) I saw were doing very shitty jobs and didn't seem to have any presence at all."
Posts: 5555 | From: Tha 5th Dimension. | Registered: Apr 2006
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^ And what do you mean by sad looking black women? Do you mean they looked emotionally sad or just sad as in they looked pathetic in someway?
Posts: 26311 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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They didn't seem happy at all. They seemed like property (like "mis-placed" African girls). But of course, this could just be my perception though my girlfriend (who would be classified as "mixed-race") noticed the same things I did.
Posts: 3423 | From: the jungle - when y'all stop playing games, call me. | Registered: Jul 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Alive-(What Box): ^What do you mean by:
"Almost all the Black people (nearly none, except for a sprinkle of very sad looking Black women with Spanish men) I saw were doing very shitty jobs and didn't seem to have any presence at all."
What I mean is I didn't see a lot of "Black" skinned people when I was in Barcelona. I did see a lot of people that would be classified as "mixed-race" but they were "not very nice", even more so than the "white" Spaniards.
I saw mostly Black women (hardly any Black men) in Barcelona. The women were either African girls with Spanish (white) men or Older African women cleaning toilets. Sad to say, but THIS IS WHAT I SAW.
Posts: 3423 | From: the jungle - when y'all stop playing games, call me. | Registered: Jul 2006
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Also, a friend of mine (who is Japanese ethnically, but British culturally) confirmed to me that he had the same experience. He was absolutely disgusted by the way Asian women were treated there, as well as the reception he got in Barcelona along with his "white" English girlfriend (who was not spared the abuse either).
Posts: 3423 | From: the jungle - when y'all stop playing games, call me. | Registered: Jul 2006
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There is this YouTube vedio where a spanish "FOOTBALL" fans taunt a black player.
What is crazy is ONE....THE WHOLE DAMN STADIUM was FREAKIN TAUNTING HIM....ONE PLAYER!!!!
AND TWO...The poor kid was Harldy BLACK...more mixed race...light skinned and everything.
Crazy...I heard spaniards are VERY racist....
Posts: 8806 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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Hmmm that is an interesting young horus, where do you think the origin of this racism/bad perception is?
I live in california, but in northern california, I heard that most of the animosity between blacks and mexicans is in southern california. I also lived in south texas for a while which is a heavily mexican area. There does'nt seem to be much of a problem between AA's and mexicans in nor cal or texas, though the communities are often (purposely) segregated and rarely interact on serious level.
To me, I think its extremely odd for mexican hispanics, who are themselves often darker skinned and a minority group, to hold any sort of racism toward any other group, especially blacks. But all do not think that way and we have to remember that the media likes to blow things out of proportion to suit its own purposes.
-------------------- Dont be evil - Google Posts: 426 | From: Cali-for-nia | Registered: Jan 2006
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^ LOL That could be part of the reason. But I think the main reason is the old European nationalism rooted in white supremacy. The irony is such sentiments are worse in those European countries that border the Mediterranean. Could this be due perhaps to the fact that these countries have had intimate contact with Africans in the past in more ways than one? Could be. Note for example the severly neurotic and I dare say psychotic behavior of Medicentrists who deep down know they have African ancestry.
quote:Originally posted by Young H*O*R*U*S: ^emotionally.
They didn't seem happy at all. They seemed like property (like "mis-placed" African girls). But of course, this could just be my perception though my girlfriend (who would be classified as "mixed-race") noticed the same things I did.
I won't be surprised at all if this is the case. Spain is one of the most racist countries in Europe. Have you seen or heard about the way they treat black players in soccer games?? Let's just say they can be just as bad as whites in the 'old south'.
I only wonder how they view black women. This reminds me of something a friend of mine told me. That she saw an episode of America's Next Top Model where they were in Spain and one of the male models said he doesn't like black women. Now for those Spanish men who date black women, they may like them as in are attracted to them but exactly whether they treat them with respect is another thing.
Non of the black women I know African American or African would not tolerate such a thing. So I don't know what those women are thinking if they are in such unhappy relationships.
Posts: 26311 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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Well yes and no. From personal experience, much probably has to do with hispanic culture (originating from spain) and its tendency to look down upon blacks, but alot has to do with other factors too. In the case of obama you can't blame it all on race, yeah race is factor, but the clintons have alot of name recognition, also hispanics did well under the bill so they are loyal to that.
Its somewhat complex. Mexicans don't like to be associated with "the bottom" and they often see blacks as occupying that and so increase their 'social distance' as sociologists say. This combined with negative anti-black stereotypes in the hispanic world and you have this tense situation.
Posts: 426 | From: Cali-for-nia | Registered: Jan 2006
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Alive-(What Box), you are 100% on the money. There is a direct trajectory from the reconquista to the inquisition to the slave trade and the Castas system of Colonial Mexico. Read the work Beltran.
Posts: 2007 | From: Washington State | Registered: Oct 2006
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We are confusing Mexican, Mexican-American and Spanish (Spaniard) so that creates a lot of problems in understanding the total picture! Spain is a country of regions and Barcelona is one of the Euro progressive regions in Spain and hence they have become representatine of modern European attitudes, sadly the adoption of 'Nazi' (wannabe theology and association) in some quarters. Despite that, it is still progressive.
Mexico is not Spain and is not Spanish. As former colonials, Mexicans speak Spanish (de habla espanol) but their roots are indigenous meaning native Indian tribes of varying degrees of mestizaje. At best, mestizaje is the central theme of present Mexican culture but when you look at the visuals/media/Telemundo/Univision, you see promotion of Eurocentrist ideology as opposed to the one you see crossing the border for work in USA! Mexican Americans are USA Americans!
Posts: 1290 | From: usa | Registered: May 2005
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Up!. Mexicans are NOT SPANISH ethnically and culturally.
Working with a few Spaniards from Spain - they (Spanish) do not consider even what some latins speak. . spanish.
They were invited to join latin-american network groups which they promptly shunned saying they are NOT latin. Only the language is similar.
quote:Originally posted by yazid904: ma frens,
We are confusing Mexican, Mexican-American and Spanish (Spaniard) so that creates a lot of problems in understanding the total picture! Spain is a country of regions and Barcelona is one of the Euro progressive regions in Spain and hence they have become representatine of modern European attitudes, sadly the adoption of 'Nazi' (wannabe theology and association) in some quarters. Despite that, it is still progressive.
Mexico is not Spain and is not Spanish. As former colonials, Mexicans speak Spanish (de habla espanol) but their roots are indigenous meaning native Indian tribes of varying degrees of mestizaje. At best, mestizaje is the central theme of present Mexican culture but when you look at the visuals/media/Telemundo/Univision, you see promotion of Eurocentrist ideology as opposed to the one you see crossing the border for work in USA! Mexican Americans are USA Americans!
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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Note also - if there was a spanish network group. Do you think they would invite mexican americans/puerto ricans to join. . . . keep dreaming. Fuuny how not only AA are discriminated against. And not only AA who have this yearning to be accepted! eh! Prmiddleastern . dumb A##.
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: ^ LOL That could be part of the reason. But I think the main reason is the old European nationalism rooted in white supremacy. The irony is such sentiments are worse in those European countries that border the Mediterranean. Could this be due perhaps to the fact that these countries have had intimate contact with Africans in the past in more ways than one? Could be. Note for example the severly neurotic and I dare say psychotic behavior of Medicentrists who deep down know they have African ancestry.
quote:Originally posted by Young H*O*R*U*S: ^emotionally.
They didn't seem happy at all. They seemed like property (like "mis-placed" African girls). But of course, this could just be my perception though my girlfriend (who would be classified as "mixed-race") noticed the same things I did.
I won't be surprised at all if this is the case. Spain is one of the most racist countries in Europe. Have you seen or heard about the way they treat black players in soccer games??
quote: Faced with an outcry in Britain and threats from the FIA, the sport's world governing body, that both of the grands prix due to be held in their country this year could be cancelled, the Spanish motor sport authorities moved quickly yesterday to try to calm tempers over the racist abuse suffered by Lewis Hamilton at the weekend.
The British driver was booed and racially insulted by spectators during a Formula One test at the Circuit de Catalunya at Montmeló, on the outskirts of Barcelona. Some of the Spanish fans who taunted him wore wigs, had blackened their faces and wore T-shirts with the words “Hamilton's family” on them...
Well at least they don't have lynchings. They have beatings but not lynchings.
Posts: 26311 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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We are confusing Mexican, Mexican-American and Spanish (Spaniard) so that creates a lot of problems in understanding the total picture! Spain is a country of regions and Barcelona is one of the Euro progressive regions in Spain and hence they have become representatine of modern European attitudes, sadly the adoption of 'Nazi' (wannabe theology and association) in some quarters. Despite that, it is still progressive.
Mexico is not Spain and is not Spanish. As former colonials, Mexicans speak Spanish (de habla espanol) but their roots are indigenous meaning native Indian tribes of varying degrees of mestizaje. At best, mestizaje is the central theme of present Mexican culture but when you look at the visuals/media/Telemundo/Univision, you see promotion of Eurocentrist ideology as opposed to the one you see crossing the border for work in USA! Mexican Americans are USA Americans!
Evergreen Writes:
You have failed to engage on the central theme of this thread. What is the connection between the racism that evolved after the Castilians reconquered Spain from the Moors and how does this link to racism in modern Mexico and the USA?
Posts: 2007 | From: Washington State | Registered: Oct 2006
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^Much of it has to to with probably racial caste systems in colonial latin america including mexico i.e elaborate systems of social rewards and sanctions, designed by the spanish and elites as a way to divide the native and black populations.
For example in colonial mexico it was later decreed that indians could not marry blacks, not could blacks live in indian villages, because the spanish feared of an indian/black alliance.
-------------------- Dont be evil - Google Posts: 426 | From: Cali-for-nia | Registered: Jan 2006
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quote:You have failed to engage on the central theme of this thread. What is the connection between the racism that evolved after the Castilians reconquered Spain from the Moors and how does this link to racism in modern Mexico and the USA?
There is not a clear response to the question(s)! I will try to answer in a logical way so you can perhaps look up some sources yourself!
People of mestizaje/mulataje heritaje (majority of Latin America) ususlly copy attitudes of their colonizers and become 'mas papa que el papa' (more catholic than the pope)! Whatever the reason is for that change, I do not know! The fact is in our home countries of Latine America and Caribbean, we may be seen as mestizo, mulato, indio, negro, etc but when we reach USA, we become Spanish! jaja! Figure that out!
There is also a power and economic value of allying with the majority culture in USA. Many barriers have broken down regarding the casta system but like diehard negative values, they refuse to die! Spain has its own negroes, i.e. the Basque country and now it is easy to point to them as 'terrorists'. What you see as Mediterranean centrist appears to be pointing to a "Northern European centrist attitude" regarding the adoption of the behaviours we are seeing towards 'mixed ancestry' group or individuals!
Interesting thing is that the Young Lewis foto is very close to a Guatemalan, Mexican, or Central American Indio phenotype! What more can I say?
Posts: 1290 | From: usa | Registered: May 2005
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quote:Originally posted by yazid904: There is not a clear response to the question(s)! I will try to answer in a logical way so you can perhaps look up some sources yourself!
Evergreen Writes:
Actually there is a very clear answer.
1. Africans ruled Spain for hundreds of years. 2. Germanic Spaniards from Castile and Arragon reconquered Spain from the Africans. 3. These Spaniards then instituted a very repressive, anti-African, anti-Jew and anti-Islamic system known as the inquisition. Racist views evolved out of this system. 4. Spaniards conquered Mexico and brought slaves into the region. 5. As these slaves and their descendents became free they were subject to a race-based taxation system known las castas. 6. There was a struggle between the "mixed race" people of Mexico and the Spanish elite that ended with the Mexican Independence. 7. The elite Spanish established the right-wing political movements in Mexico and have struggled against the "mixed race" and indigenous peasants in Mexico through the time Emiliano Zapata to present. 8. Mexican immigrants to the states brought the racist views of the Spanish elite to the USA via immigration. 9. There is a direct trajectory from the conquest of the Al Andaluisa to the rejection of pro-immigrant Obama today.
Posts: 2007 | From: Washington State | Registered: Oct 2006
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quote:Originally posted by yazid904: What you see as Mediterranean centrist appears to be pointing to a "Northern European centrist attitude" regarding the adoption of the behaviours we are seeing towards 'mixed ancestry' group or individuals!
Evergreen Writes:
There are two forms of Medicentrism and they both contain anti-African bias.
FORM # 1 - Common among Greeks, Italians and Spaniards. Deny any trace of African ancestry, even in the face of the overwhelming evidence we see from HLA, Haplogroup E3b and the Benin Sickle Cell Variant.
FORM # 2 - Common in Brazil and Arabia. Accept African ancestry, yet claim that it is the "Eurasian Part" that creates their human genius.
FORM # # - Modified and reduced forms of 1 and 2 above. Common among Jews.
Posts: 2007 | From: Washington State | Registered: Oct 2006
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I worked several years in a prestigious advertising firm in Manhattan. While there, two women junior execs, mid-twenties...who I later found out were Mexicans arrived to work on the international Spanish speaking accounts. I broached subject of Mexicans doing slave labor in the U.S.
Their response was surprisingly cold-hearted.
Physically the two young women were unidentifiable as Mexicans. Unlike the Mexicans doing the gardening or other lowly occupations, these two women were as white European as any white European was; think Mexican Soap Operas.
They were from wealthy families and had to return home after a few years abroad to marry young men introduced to them when they were teenaged women, essentially their arranged fiancés. The old wealthy Mexican families seem to practice arranged marriages for their daughters and sons, keeping both land and wealth within a select few families, and their bloodlines as European as possible.
The two women answered that the Indio’s and those brown people flooding over the borders were NOT Mexicans. They said that REAL Mexicans, like themselves, are overjoyed to rid their nation of their INDIOS. They used the word Indio the same way a Southerner from 1860 U.S. would have said word nagger.
These true Mexican women wanted their brown servant populations gone from their nation. If the United States was naïve enough to have them...good-riddance, was their consensus.
I had the distinct feeling they would have enjoyed seeing the military shoot at fleeing Indios as they fled across the northern border. The general feeling among their land owning families seemed to be one of wanting to commit ethnic cleansing by force or economic pressures. In essence, they would have placed a bounty on their scalps if they could get away with it.
It made sense, as I realized being a minority in a brown ocean of poor desperate people, must make the ‘TRUE’ Mexicans quite unsettled.
I have another example from the University I attended, about a Puerto Rican girl who thought she was white, only to have her beloved boyfriend’s wealthy family back in Venezuela threaten to disown him from the family business if he brought that ****** back with him as wife. The PR girl was stunningly beautiful, but it did not matter because her perceived ethnic background contained Indian and African elements.
The racial nonsense worldwide...is atrocious.
I just wanted to give some examples of racial attitude.
Posts: 96 | Registered: Oct 2007
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^ Thus Mexico today is not that much different from colonial Mexico in that whites are pretty much still in charge (as also seen by the politicians) and your average brown Mexico is a 2nd class citizen.
Posts: 26311 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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U.S.: Mexican stamp fuels 'racial stereotypes' Images of stereotypical black comics character follow flap spurred by Fox
WASHINGTON - The White House on Thursday objected to a postage stamp issued by the Mexican government, saying that “racial stereotypes are offensive no matter what their origin” and have no place in today’s world.
The stamp depicts an exaggerated black cartoon character known as Memin Pinguin, drawn with exaggerated features, thick lips and wide-open eyes. His appearance, speech and mannerisms are the subject of kidding by white characters in the comic book, which started in the 1940s and is still published in Mexico.
White House press secretary Scott McClellan said it was “an internal issue for Mexico and the postal authorities that issued the stamp. With that said, I would like to make a couple of points. Racial stereotypes are offensive no matter what their origin. The Mexican government needs to take this into account. Images like these have no place in today’s world.”
Mexico said that like Speedy Gonzalez — a cartoon mouse with a Mexican accent that debuted in the United States in 1953 — the Memin Pinguin character shouldn’t be interpreted as a racial slur.
Activists have also called on the Mexican government to withdraw the stamp.
“One would hope the Mexican government would be a little more careful and avoid continually opening wounds,” said Sergio Penalosa, an activist in Mexico’s small black community on the southern Pacific coast.
“But we’ve learned to expect anything from this government, just anything,” Penalosa said.
Fox’s comments The stamp was issued just weeks after remarks by President Vicente Fox angered black Americans.
In May, Fox riled many by saying Mexican migrants take jobs in the United States that “not even blacks” want. Fox later expressed regret for any offense the remarks may have caused, but insisted his comments had been misinterpreted.
Carlos Caballero, assistant marketing director for the Mexican Postal Service, said the new stamps are not offensive, nor were they intended to be.
“This is a traditional character that reflects part of Mexico’s culture,” Caballero said. “His mischievous nature is part of that character.”
However, Penalosa said many Mexicans still assume all blacks are foreigners, despite the fact that at one point early in the Spanish colonial era, Africans outnumbered Spanish in Mexico.
‘It's from another era’ “At this point in time, it was probably pretty insensitive” to issue the stamps, said Elisa Velazquez, an anthropologist who studies Mexico’s black communities for the National Institute of Anthropology and History.
“This character is a classic, but it’s from another era,” Velazquez said. “It’s a stereotype, and you don’t want to encourage ignorance or prejudices.”
The 6.50-peso (60 cent) stamps — depicting the character in five poses — was issued with the domestic market in mind, but Caballero noted they could be used in international postage as well. A total of 750,000 of the stamps will be issued.
Ben Vinson, a black professor of Latin American history at Penn State University, said he has been called “Memin Pinguin” by some people in Mexico. He said the character’s mother is drawn to look like an old version of the U.S. advertising character Aunt Jemima.
The stamps are part of a series that pays tribute to Mexican comic books. Memin Pinguin, the second in the series, was apparently chosen for this year’s release because it is the 50th anniversary of the company that publishes the comic.
Publisher Manelick de la Parra told the government news agency Notimex the character would be a sort of goodwill ambassador on Mexican letters and postcards. “It seems nice if Memin can travel all over the world, spreading good news,” de la Parra said, calling him “so charming, so affectionate, so wonderful, generous and friendly.”
posted
The Politics of Race and Assimilation: The League of United Latin American Citizens 1929-40 Benjamin Marquez The Western Political Quarterly, Vol. 42, No. 2 (Jun., 1989), pp. 355-375
"In a society in which discrimination against minority groups was pervasive, LULAC avoided interacting with Blacks and made the claim that Mexican-Americans were whites."
-------------------- Black Roots. Posts: 2007 | From: Washington State | Registered: Oct 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: ^ LOL That could be part of the reason. But I think the main reason is the old European nationalism rooted in white supremacy. The irony is such sentiments are worse in those European countries that border the Mediterranean. Could this be due perhaps to the fact that these countries have had intimate contact with Africans in the past in more ways than one? Could be. Note for example the severly neurotic and I dare say psychotic behavior of Medicentrists who deep down know they have African ancestry.
quote:Originally posted by Young H*O*R*U*S: ^emotionally.
They didn't seem happy at all. They seemed like property (like "mis-placed" African girls). But of course, this could just be my perception though my girlfriend (who would be classified as "mixed-race") noticed the same things I did.
I won't be surprised at all if this is the case. Spain is one of the most racist countries in Europe. Have you seen or heard about the way they treat black players in soccer games?? Let's just say they can be just as bad as whites in the 'old south'.
I only wonder how they view black women. This reminds me of something a friend of mine told me. That she saw an episode of America's Next Top Model where they were in Spain and one of the male models said he doesn't like black women. Now for those Spanish men who date black women, they may like them as in are attracted to them but exactly whether they treat them with respect is another thing.
Non of the black women I know African American or African would not tolerate such a thing. So I don't know what those women are thinking if they are in such unhappy relationships.
I hate to make jokes about such a serious topic...but Spain never got over the Moors. I think there's a lot of left over resentment from that. They still celebrate the Reconquista every year...it's like a festival for them.
Posts: 1219 | From: North Carolina, USA | Registered: Jul 2004
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quote:Originally posted by yazid904: There is not a clear response to the question(s)! I will try to answer in a logical way so you can perhaps look up some sources yourself!
Evergreen Writes:
Actually there is a very clear answer.
1. Africans ruled Spain for hundreds of years.
But the question remains were they "coastal africans" typical in northern morocco or of the "tropical" inner african variety. It not really entirely how much representation either group had in islamic spain. But its clear they left their mark in the south.
Posts: 426 | From: Cali-for-nia | Registered: Jan 2006
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quote:Originally posted by yazid904: There is not a clear response to the question(s)! I will try to answer in a logical way so you can perhaps look up some sources yourself!
Evergreen Writes:
Actually there is a very clear answer.
1. Africans ruled Spain for hundreds of years.
But the question remains were they "coastal africans" typical in northern morocco or of the "tropical" inner african variety. It not really entirely how much representation either group had in islamic spain. But its clear they left their mark in the south.
Evergreen Writes:
There is no question around this. It was both and European converts and SW Asians.
Posts: 2007 | From: Washington State | Registered: Oct 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Young H*O*R*U*S: Interesting topic!
I went to Spain (Barcelona) last year and I had the wierdest race experience ever.
I was with my bird who looks like a typical Latino. The men looked absolutely shocked and angered when they saw us together. I got stares, bad service etc pretty much all the time and what was most sad ... a lot of the Spanish people looked like South-Americans. Now, in London where I live, South-Americans and Africans tend to take the same side in racial matters, but not in Spain...
Almost all the Black people (nearly none, except for a sprinkle of very sad looking Black women with Spanish men) I saw were doing very shitty jobs and didn't seem to have any presence at all. I'm definitely not going back there. London seems to be the only place I can tolerate in Europe ... okay, maybe Paris too (I love the Champs Elysées ).
I went through Madrid on my way to Seville and Casa Del Sol on business. The owner of the business drove me around in his Jag and we visited the pubs, ate ham, and went to the bullfights. They have this fermented ham as their local delicacy. Every pub we visited serves it up with wine, olives, cheese and bread.
The owner is a subtle racist and took great joy in talking about the number of Africans and Arabs on the floor of the Black sea whose boat sank while attempting to get to southern Spain. The odd thing is, this guy looks mixed like Robert DeNiro. In fact, this guy could pass for DeNiro's twin.
Later at a pub, he began pointing others out and informing me that they wore horns, meaning they were cuckolds. He pointed out 3/4 of the bar. He informed me if I decided to move to Spain, I'd have a great time because Spain was full of cuckolds and I'd have free access to all their wives. He went to great lengths to convince me that all the Spanish women did not have tatoos, piercings, diseases, were very lusty, and loved black men. He called another guy over to confirm everything he was saying as true. The new guy happily agreed.
Later, we went to the flamenco clubs which seemed to me to be their version of a strip club. The dancers there are very "open" after hours.
I think I know what those moors were up to in their time in Spain. Perhaps this has something to do with the males discomfort around black men. Posts: 3595 | From: Moved To Mars. Waiting with shotgun | Registered: Dec 2006
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^lol maybe I should reconsider my "never" going back to Spain oath .
Posts: 3423 | From: the jungle - when y'all stop playing games, call me. | Registered: Jul 2006
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The former Africans of Spain and the latter-day Spanish
The question asked above is: “Why do the Spanish hold animosity towards Africans?” I hadn’t known they still do but if we look at the historical record, it reveals interesting things. First, [1] Africans from Upper Paleolithic times predated today’s whites of Spain. [2] Africans are the R1a forefathers of today’s Spanish (or at least had R1a long, long before and along with the Steppic peoples who inherited it from Sungir long-headed African forefathers,
Africans in Sungir, 25,000 BC
no doubt, to today’s long-headed Nordic peoples. Whites have R1a. This is where they got it from.
[3]. The boats used by the Spanish were thousands of years earlier used by Africans.
The webpages below illustrate the facts in [1], [2], and [3] above.
[1] AFRICANS FROM PALEOLITHIC TIMES TO THE BRONZE AGE
[3] SHIPS OF SPAIN FROM EARLIER SEAFARING MOORS? Whites, coming from the land-locked Steppes had no ships there. They encountered boats of Africans on Spanish [C] shores and later commandeered them as did the Portugese with a similar history to incursive Spanish. That Africans were seafaring explains why there were Neolithic African populations on the Great Islands: England, Greenland, Japan, those of Greece:
Slaughter of the bull in Spain. Why? Here’s an interesting thing to consider. In Africa, the bull was considered as the symbol of Amun and other head gods. Africans carried this culture and religious practice to Northern Europe and Spain (my belief). Yet, in Spain, they kill the animal in bull fights and mock the animal in their annual bull run festivals.
My belief is that this was a counter-reaction to the African practice and the bull-killings were the ultimate humiliation, as it were, of African religious beliefs (Recall how strong the religion of Amun was even in nearby Rome!!).
But, this would also reflect on the animosities Spanish have towards Africans of entering the land (Spain) the web pages show had an African population. Likely there were fierce battles Africans lost but the memory of strife carries on and what we witness in Spanish racism may harken back to their first encounter with Africans from maybe 300 BC through 1600 AD.
This fierce hatred and animosity takes little imagination to conceive. Cortez in the Americas encountered Africans
and killed them by the tens of thousands. They were pitifully tortured in incredibly inhumane ways. Yet, it was in Spain against the Moors (whose ships Cortez likely stole to form his navies [picture [C] ) that this racial antagonism was inflamed over the centuries of incoming whites from the Steppes taking over an African Spain.
Maybe this racism that spoken about had the above roots.
. .
-------------------- The nature of homelife is the fate of the nation. Posts: 2334 | Registered: May 2006
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^^Guy, seriously, stop spamming this board with your crappy pictures and comparisons. They are absolutely meaningless. Please go somewhere else, I'm tired of seeing your spam and passing it off as science.
-------------------- Dont be evil - Google Posts: 426 | From: Cali-for-nia | Registered: Jan 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Marc Washington: The former Africans of Spain and the latter-day Spanish
The question asked above is: “Why do the Spanish hold animosity towards Africans?” I hadn’t known they still do but if we look at the historical record, it reveals interesting things. First, [1] Africans from Upper Paleolithic times predated today’s whites of Spain. [2] Africans are the R1a forefathers of today’s Spanish (or at least had R1a long, long before and along with the Steppic peoples who inherited it from Sungir long-headed African forefathers,
Africans in Sungir, 25,000 BC
no doubt, to today’s long-headed Nordic peoples. Whites have R1a. This is where they got it from.
[3]. The boats used by the Spanish were thousands of years earlier used by Africans.
The webpages below illustrate the facts in [1], [2], and [3] above.
[1] AFRICANS FROM PALEOLITHIC TIMES TO THE BRONZE AGE
[3] SHIPS OF SPAIN FROM EARLIER SEAFARING MOORS? Whites, coming from the land-locked Steppes had no ships there. They encountered boats of Africans on Spanish [C] shores and later commandeered them as did the Portugese with a similar history to incursive Spanish. That Africans were seafaring explains why there were Neolithic African populations on the Great Islands: England, Greenland, Japan, those of Greece:
Slaughter of the bull in Spain. Why? Here’s an interesting thing to consider. In Africa, the bull was considered as the symbol of Amun and other head gods. Africans carried this culture and religious practice to Northern Europe and Spain (my belief). Yet, in Spain, they kill the animal in bull fights and mock the animal in their annual bull run festivals.
My belief is that this was a counter-reaction to the African practice and the bull-killings were the ultimate humiliation, as it were, of African religious beliefs (Recall how strong the religion of Amun was even in nearby Rome!!).
But, this would also reflect on the animosities Spanish have towards Africans of entering the land (Spain) the web pages show had an African population. Likely there were fierce battles Africans lost but the memory of strife carries on and what we witness in Spanish racism may harken back to their first encounter with Africans from maybe 300 BC through 1600 AD.
This fierce hatred and animosity takes little imagination to conceive. Cortez in the Americas encountered Africans
and killed them by the tens of thousands. They were pitifully tortured in incredibly inhumane ways. Yet, it was in Spain against the Moors (whose ships Cortez likely stole to form his navies [picture [C] ) that this racial antagonism was inflamed over the centuries of incoming whites from the Steppes taking over an African Spain.
Maybe this racism that spoken about had the above roots.
. .
Thanks Marc I find the ritual of the running of the bulls a fascinating piece of symbolism also. A black bull chasing a group of giggling white men dressed in white down narrow streets. Interesting that Spanish cuckolds refer to their wife's suitor as, a bull. Posts: 3595 | From: Moved To Mars. Waiting with shotgun | Registered: Dec 2006
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[Meninarmer writes] I find the ritual of the running of the bulls a fascinating piece of symbolism also. A black bull chasing a group of giggling white men dressed in white down narrow streets. Interesting that Spanish cuckolds refer to their wife's suitor as, a bull.
[Marc writes] Meinarmer. Thanks. There is indeed irony going on here as the web page below alludes. Zeus abducting Europa was all about an African god taking an African princess for his queen (See the last section of the web page below: Africans, Europa, and Europe.
This understanding begins with the realization that the original Phoenicians (those that founded the countries of Europe and named the continent "Europe") were African.
From the vantage point of mythology, the web page notes:
The supreme deity of Greek mythology was Zeus (Jupiter). <snip> In the myths he fell in love with Europa, a beautiful daughter of Agenor, king of Phoenicia. Again, Phoenicians were African as the pictures below show… Europa was the Great Mother Goddess of the entire continent of Europe.
What you have drawn attention, to Meninarmer, is that a black god is now chasing the skirts of a someone’s rhetorical white wife. What a trip. Here we have an incursive people who end up replacing the original African population. In the process, they project the fantasy of outrageous rape of the men of the original Africans on the women of the incursive peoples - today's Spanish.
This justifying, perhaps, the hostilities involved in the reasons to carry-out the eradication of Spain's indigenous Africans there since the Old Stone Age.
Well. They have stolen our history. Enslaved our peoples. Their wealth is based on a parasitic relationship with Africa past and present. But, at least the truth of history is ours to claim and it has already given us pride of ownership.
-------------------- The nature of homelife is the fate of the nation. Posts: 2334 | Registered: May 2006
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