posted
I noted there is a drawing/symbol in this following depiction of Neith. That drawing/symbol ressembles a Berber ornament, especially the touareg one: The depiction of Neith:
An ornament from Agadez (from Niger):
You can recognize the symbol i mean in the Neith's image. Can someone tell me what that Egyptian symbol means? Do you believe there can be a link between the Egyptian symbol and the Berber ornament?
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quote:Originally posted by Mazigh: I noted there is a drawing/symbol in this following depiction of Neith. That drawing/symbol ressembles a Berber ornament, especially the touareg one: The depiction of Neith:
An ornament from Agadez (from Niger):
You can recognize the symbol i mean in the Neith's image. Can someone tell me what that Egyptian symbol means? Do you believe there can be a link between the Egyptian symbol and the Berber ornament?
Im not sure what it means, but just like the other Africans, the Berbers were influenced by Egypt...especially the religion. I remember reading a site where Berbers were worshiping the diety Amun.
Posts: 8806 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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posted
I believe there was a cultural interchange between the Egyptians and the Berbers. And it is true that the Egyptians and the Berbers (And Nubians..) worshipped Amon. But, it is not clear whether it was Egyptian or Berber (Some will discusse it was Nubian). See my article on wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berber_mythology#Egyptian-Berber_beliefs
In the case of our topic, it is to ignore that the Egyptians would influence the Berbers of Niger. Because the the Berbers (Ancient Libyans) emigrated to the land of the Egyptians, while the Egyptians didn't emigrate to deep land of the Berbers like Niger.
It has been suggested the hunt/war features of Neith’s imagery may indicate her origin from Libya, located west and southwest of Egypt, where she was goddess of the combative peoples there [8].
[8]For arguments concerning the connections of Libya and Egypt, with particular emphasis upon Neith, see, Oric Bates, The Eastern Libyans, (Frank Cass, London, 1914), pp. 205 ff.; Kees and Blissing, Re-Heligtum, II (Plate 7, figure 17) and III, Plate 9, where Neith and Libya figure prominently in the Sed festivals of Nuserre and Djoser, and A. R. David, The Ancient Egyptians: Religious Beliefs and Practices, (London, 1982), p. 145. ---------------- I have just read an interesting Berber word. It was the Berber word for "Soul". "The name seems to be clerly a compound of Libyan emet; aorist, imut, to die, dead, and eman, sould, -a lord fo the souls of the dead. "
This eman (soul) maybe the same name Amon.
Yet, i read another interesting word in the Berber language; In fact i heart it before, but i doubted because we -as Riffians- don't use it any more. But becaue the book/source is a older than hunderd year, i accept it. The Berber word is "Mas" which means "lord" or something like that: "The name Mastiman is compounded of the common Libyan (and Etruscan) prefix of grandeur mas,"
That word is found in several name like the name of the Numidian king: "Massiniss". So, i suggest that the name "Mastiman" would mean "The lord of the souls". http://www.nissaba.nl/nisphp/viewtopic.php?t=930
(I will post that article here in this forum).
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posted
I have a "cult" book in the currently inaccessable part of my library entitled Atlantis that has a few pages on the "Tuareg" (a travelogue on Africa/Arabia also featured some of the very same pages) that goes into the title/rank/position Amenokhal(sp?) and how it ties Kel Tamasheq in with Ancient Egypt. If so, and not just fortuitous, we see the Ancient Sudan power principle Amen/Amun making itself god/king yet again in another people split off from an ancient root implanted in the rich soil of Sudan.
Of course we've two sciences -- genetics (NRY E3b, Beja/Tuareg autosome distance) and linguistics ("Berber" languages) -- positing ultimate Sudan origins for some kel members.
Found the books. For those interested in legend and lore:
David Hatcher Lost Cities and Ancient Mysteries of Africa and Arabia Stelle, Ill.: Adventures Unlimited Press, 1989
Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006
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posted
I have also written an article on the name "Atlas" and its relation to Atlantis. But i did that in Dutch. However, ik cite the English alinea:
"The etymology of the name Atlas is uncertain and still debated: some derive it from the Proto-Indo-European root 'tel', 'to uphold, support'; others suggest that it is a pre-Indo-European name. Since the Atlas mountains fall in the region inhabited by Berbers, it could be that the latin name as we know it is taken from Berber.
In fact, the sun is often called the 'eye of the sky'.
And since it sets to the west, the Atlantic ocean can be called "the place of concealement of the sun" or Antal n Tit. Greeks could have borrowed this name for the ocean and called it Atlantic, and later used its root ATL to form the name Atlas."Atlas" is also the presently used name of many objects and places (see Atlas). http://www.crystalinks.com/titans2.html Topic: http://www.nissaba.nl/nisphp/viewtopic.php?t=929 [Djehuti can read Dutch ]
BTW, some believe the name Kel Tamasheq could be related to "Tamahu", an egyptian name for an Ancient Libyan tribe (That was also referred to in that article on the Etruscans and the Libyans).
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quote:Originally posted by Mazigh: I noted there is a drawing/symbol in this following depiction of Neith. That drawing/symbol ressembles a Berber ornament, especially the touareg one: The depiction of Neith:
An ornament from Agadez (from Niger):
You can recognize the symbol i mean in the Neith's image. Can someone tell me what that Egyptian symbol means? Do you believe there can be a link between the Egyptian symbol and the Berber ornament?
Where is the symbol on the Egyptian painting?
quote:Originally posted by Jari-Ankhamun: Im not sure what it means, but just like the other Africans, the Berbers were influenced by Egypt...especially the religion. I remember reading a site where Berbers were worshiping the diety Amun.
Why must you attribute the similarity to Egyptian influence only? Why can it be due to a common origin?
Posts: 26322 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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Found the books. For those interested in legend and lore:
L. Taylor Hansen The Ancient Atlantic Amherst, Wis: Amherst Press, 1969
David Hatcher Lost Cities and Ancient Mysteries of Africa and Arabia Stelle, Ill.: Adventures Unlimited Press, 1989
You can read bits and pieces of what's in Hansen by reading Hatcher online if you GOOGLE "atlantis tuareg indians hatcher" and click on the books.google.com hit then read the Central Sahara chapter pages 171 - 173.
Nothing serious just some fun diffusionist stuff.
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posted
Djehuti, the symbol of Neith is depicted on the mur behind Neith, a bit above of her right shoulder. That was only my remark. But it seems i was right in my remak. I found an interesting image of Neith in Wikipedia: In this following image, you see the symbol i meant in her hand:
More interesting, there is a relationship with Tanit and the symbols (that was my original topic in the Dutch forum:
"It is thought that Neith may correspond to the goddess Tanit (Ta-Nit), worshipped in north Africa by the early Berber culture (existing from the beginnings of written records) and through the first Punic culture originating from the founding of Carthage by Dido. Ta-nit, meaning in Egyptian the land of Nit, also was a heavenly goddess of war, a virginal mother goddess and nurse, and, less specifically, a symbol of fertility. Her symbol is remarkably similar to the Egyptian ankh and her shrine, excavated at Sarepta in southern Phoenicia, revealed an inscription that related her securely to the Phoenician goddess Astarte (Ishtar). Several of the major Greek goddesses also were identified with Tanit by the syncretic, interpretatio graeca, which recognized as Greek deities in foreign guise the deities of most of the surrounding non-Hellene cultures. A Hellenistic royal family ruled over Egypt for three centuries, a period called the Ptolemaic dynasty until the Roman conquest in 30 A.D." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neith
The symbol of Tanit from wikipedia: (See my Dutch topic for more images for the Berber ornament].
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quote:Originally posted by Mazigh: I noted there is a drawing/symbol in this following depiction of Neith. That drawing/symbol ressembles a Berber ornament, especially the touareg one: The depiction of Neith:
An ornament from Agadez (from Niger):
You can recognize the symbol i mean in the Neith's image. Can someone tell me what that Egyptian symbol means? Do you believe there can be a link between the Egyptian symbol and the Berber ornament?
Where is the symbol on the Egyptian painting?
quote:Originally posted by Jari-Ankhamun: Im not sure what it means, but just like the other Africans, the Berbers were influenced by Egypt...especially the religion. I remember reading a site where Berbers were worshiping the diety Amun.
Why must you attribute the similarity to Egyptian influence only? Why can it be due to a common origin?
Trust me I know it was a common origin FOR MANY of the Km.t Gods. Such as Anubis and Isis whom where of African origin that the Egyptian adopted and made important in their religion.
Min was another, I meant that Africans(Berbers, Kushites/ and Ethiopians and Egyptians) were influencing each other...bad wording.
Posts: 8806 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Mazigh: Djehuti, the symbol of Neith is depicted on the mur behind Neith, a bit above of her right shoulder. That was only my remark. But it seems i was right in my remak. I found an interesting image of Neith in Wikipedia: In this following image, you see the symbol i meant in her hand:
More interesting, there is a relationship with Tanit and the symbols (that was my original topic in the Dutch forum:
"It is thought that Neith may correspond to the goddess Tanit (Ta-Nit), worshipped in north Africa by the early Berber culture (existing from the beginnings of written records) and through the first Punic culture originating from the founding of Carthage by Dido. Ta-nit, meaning in Egyptian the land of Nit, also was a heavenly goddess of war, a virginal mother goddess and nurse, and, less specifically, a symbol of fertility. Her symbol is remarkably similar to the Egyptian ankh and her shrine, excavated at Sarepta in southern Phoenicia, revealed an inscription that related her securely to the Phoenician goddess Astarte (Ishtar). Several of the major Greek goddesses also were identified with Tanit by the syncretic, interpretatio graeca, which recognized as Greek deities in foreign guise the deities of most of the surrounding non-Hellene cultures. A Hellenistic royal family ruled over Egypt for three centuries, a period called the Ptolemaic dynasty until the Roman conquest in 30 A.D." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neith
The symbol of Tanit from wikipedia: (See my Dutch topic for more images for the Berber ornament].
Ah! You mean the ankh! It is the Egyptian symbol of life. Ausar once suggested there could be a connection between the Egyptian ankh and the Tuareg cross, but beyond that we couldn't find anything about the cross. It would be great if someone could find us not only the name for that Tuareg symbol but the very meaning of it.
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Ausar was referring to the ornament of our topic. The name of the ornament is called "Le croix d'agadez" in Frensh. But, i don't know the name in the Touareg language. It might be called "Tanfouk". But, "Tanfouk" might also be a name of another touareg ornament.
I suggested (i'm not the only one) that it would be related to the sign of Tanit.
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