posted                      

Probably a lot.

This is his mummy:



Here is his grandson Thutmosis IV:


From: http://www.flickr.com/photos/manna4u/sets/72157600018826993/with/431865519/

quote:

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SN-Mandibular Plane
Subject SN-Mandibular Plane

Seqenenre Tao 34
Ahmose I 27.2
Amenhotep I 33.7
Thutmose I 34
Thutmose II 37.4
Thutmose III 43.1
Amenhotep II 38.4
Thutmose IV 26.2
Amenhotep III 28
Smenkhkare 37.33
Seti I 32.22
Ramesses II 31.9
Merenptah 33.4
Seti II 41.9
Siptah 49
Ramesses III 28.9
Ramesses IV 31.8
Ramesses V 28.6
Ramesses IX (XI) 33.4

In the study of Alexander and Hitchcock of Alabama populations, the AA norm for SN-Mand. was 34.4 compared to 32.0 for Caucasians. The average for the Pharaohs is 34.23. If one includes the New Kingdom Queens the mean is 35.83! (Alexander TL, Hitchcock HP. Cephalometric standards for American Negro children. Am J Orthod 1978;74:298-304)

ANB Values (A point-Nasion-B point)
Subject ANB (°)

Seqenenre Tao 6.22
Ahmose I 7.5
Amenhotep I 5.56
Thutmose I 10.46
Thutmose II 3.41
Thutmose III 6.1
Amenhotep II 5.5
Thutmose IV 5.84
Amenhotep III 6
Smenkhkare 5.41
Seti I 5.49
Ramesses II 6.94
Merenptah 7.5
Seti II 3.7
Siptah --
Ramesses III 7.2
Ramesses IV 6.26
Ramesses V 3.14
Ramesses IX (XI) 4.74

The values here are almost all very high. The mean is 5.9428, which exceeds the means obtained for persons of African descent in previous studies and far exceeds the means obtained for Caucasians. (Downs WB. Variations in facial relationships: Their significance in treatment and prognosis. Am J
Orthod 1948;34:812-840; Fonseca RJ, Klein WD. A cephalometric evaluation of American Negro women. Am J Orthod 1978;73:152-160; Steiner CC. Cephalometrics in clinical practice. Angle Orthod 1959;29:8-29).

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Posts: 8896 | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

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Originally posted by Glider:

A CLOSEUP EXAMINATION OF PROFILES FROM THE PAST: ANCIENT EGYPT

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Sure, but these profiles can't help your case because again for the millionth time such profiles are not uncommon in black African populations.

Take this statue of of Thutmose III for instance.



^ I have seen a Tuareg man of Niger with the exact same nose!

This statue of Nofret, whose paint of course has worn off...



her features are no different from some north Sudanese or black Algerian women.

Posts: 26280 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

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Originally posted by Doug M:
Probably a lot.

This is his mummy:



Here is his grandson Thutmosis IV:


From: http://www.flickr.com/photos/manna4u/sets/72157600018826993/with/431865519/

quote:

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SN-Mandibular Plane
Subject SN-Mandibular Plane

Seqenenre Tao 34
Ahmose I 27.2
Amenhotep I 33.7
Thutmose I 34
Thutmose II 37.4
Thutmose III 43.1
Amenhotep II 38.4
Thutmose IV 26.2
Amenhotep III 28
Smenkhkare 37.33
Seti I 32.22
Ramesses II 31.9
Merenptah 33.4
Seti II 41.9
Siptah 49
Ramesses III 28.9
Ramesses IV 31.8
Ramesses V 28.6
Ramesses IX (XI) 33.4

In the study of Alexander and Hitchcock of Alabama populations, the AA norm for SN-Mand. was 34.4 compared to 32.0 for Caucasians. The average for the Pharaohs is 34.23. If one includes the New Kingdom Queens the mean is 35.83! (Alexander TL, Hitchcock HP. Cephalometric standards for American Negro children. Am J Orthod 1978;74:298-304)

ANB Values (A point-Nasion-B point)
Subject ANB (°)

Seqenenre Tao 6.22
Ahmose I 7.5
Amenhotep I 5.56
Thutmose I 10.46
Thutmose II 3.41
Thutmose III 6.1
Amenhotep II 5.5
Thutmose IV 5.84
Amenhotep III 6
Smenkhkare 5.41
Seti I 5.49
Ramesses II 6.94
Merenptah 7.5
Seti II 3.7
Siptah --
Ramesses III 7.2
Ramesses IV 6.26
Ramesses V 3.14
Ramesses IX (XI) 4.74

The values here are almost all very high. The mean is 5.9428, which exceeds the means obtained for persons of African descent in previous studies and far exceeds the means obtained for Caucasians. (Downs WB. Variations in facial relationships: Their significance in treatment and prognosis. Am J
Orthod 1948;34:812-840; Fonseca RJ, Klein WD. A cephalometric evaluation of American Negro women. Am J Orthod 1978;73:152-160; Steiner CC. Cephalometrics in clinical practice. Angle Orthod 1959;29:8-29).

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From: http://www.geocities.com/pinatubo.geo/data1.htm

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Yeah, well here's a picture of Thutmose III



^ You can see the close resemblance between he and his son.

Posts: 26280 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

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Originally posted by Djehuti:
Yeah, well here's a picture of Thutmose III



^ You can see the close resemblance between he and his son.

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Posts: 8896 | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

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Originally posted by alTakruri:

We can post dozens of unambiguous "African
featured" AEs for each supposed "unAfrican
featured" one that Glider posts.

So even by his own game rules Glider will lose.

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There is actually no point in playing Glider's silly games. The boy has been told a million times that features like long straight noses or thin lips are not "caucasian" as such a racial label is scientifically debunked for the very reason that many peoples including black Africans have those exact same features.








Egyptians:





Of course, as usual, he just ignores facts and goes on his futile spamm rampage.

Posts: 26280 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

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Originally posted by Glider:

The Blonde/Redhead Ramses The Great's Actual Mummy.

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^ LOL Glider, your point about the appearance of Ramses mummy has already been refuted here.

Other than bones of the skull you cannot tell how a person exactly looked like when alive. Hair pigment could have been and likely was lost throught the embalming processes and/or his hair was probably dyed before that.

Anyway, here is Ramses when he was alive:

quote:

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Here is Another Mummy of Seti I....Where will they hide all these great mummies?

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They could hide them in the basements of the Cairo Museum, but it will do no good. You can't hide or run from the FACTS.

A more profile view of Seti I



When he was alive

Posts: 26280 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

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Originally posted by Glider:

This wall mural explains everything about the people of Ancient Egypt and their African Enemies. Some of the enemies had a reddish coloring, but as one can see, their facial features are NON-Egyptian.

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But apparently you can't get it through your head that the Egyptians were Africans also and equally black, and that the features you call Egyptian can be found amongst other black African peoples like Ethiopians.

Oh and he is obviously no bonde or red-head. LOL

Just give it up!

quote:

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Finally, we get the " Black Philipino Cheerleader" to post a complete picture....good work for a novice.

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LOL No, I'm not black and no one has to be black to accept truth. And one does not need to be a cheerleader do cheer on truth. Go truth! Down with the manure-sellers like yourself.

quote:

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BTW, eveyone knows that President Sadat's mother was Sudanese and he was very ashamed to tell people about her, as in his published biography..And your point goes into the circular filing cabinet. Looks like the Black Cheerleader missed his cue!!

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Well what about this workman from Giza?



Or the countless other rural Egyptians and Fellahin who are black and downtrodden by lighter-skinned Afrangis like yourself who claim their ancient African culture??

Looks like you have a few screws loose.

Posts: 26280 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

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Originally posted by KING:
As Usual Djehuti comes with the Facts. Truthseekers Will have to continue to put out facts. Just think of Glider like training for when the real eurocentric scholars come around. People like Glider can keep us in tip top shape. This is what alot of the Anti Africans are like. So really I have to thank Glider for showing us his bias. Whether people want to admit it or not, we need people like Glider to show us what is the latest spin the Truth suppressors are using. Really deep down I think that Glider realizes that he was mistaken about Ancient Egypt. He is just trying to save face. All you can do is continue to spit truth. I understand that Some of the more veteran posters don't like to repeat themselves but this is a must. We cannot just turn a blind eye to these people. Lot's of people come passing through this forum and they learn from us.

The threads on E3b1 Berber Lineage and National Geographic are very important on setting the record straight on African Genes, and eurocentric bias. No matter what some may think The info in those two threads has refuted many lies. Really both those threads should be stickied at the top of the forum. As a truthseeker I am proud to be back on this forum.

Peace

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quote:

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Afrocentrism
Afrocentrism is a mythology that is racist, reactionary, and essentially therapeutic. It suggests that nothing important has happened in black history since the time of the pharaohs and thus trivializes the history of black Americans. Afrocentrism places an emphasis on Egypt that is, to put it bluntly, absurd. --Clarence E. Walker*

Afrocentrism is a pseudohistorical political movement that erroneously claims that African-Americans should trace their roots back to ancient Egypt because it was dominated by a race of black Africans. Some of Afrocentrism's other claims are: the ancient Greeks stole their main cultural achievements from black Egyptians; Jesus, Socrates and Cleopatra, among others, were black; and Jews created the slave trade of black Africans.

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Posts: 315 | From: Deep Earth | Registered: Feb 2007  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                         

quote:

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Seti's mummy is said to be the finest of all surviving
royal mummies, though it was not found in his tomb.
Rather, it was found in the Deir el-Bahari cache in 1881.

Dockets on the mummy show that it had been restored during
the reign of the High Priest of Amun, Heribor (1080-1074 BC)
and again in year 15 of Smendes (about 1054 BC).

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For instance

quote:

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The main steps for mummification:


Removing the brain, which was done by pushing an iron rod with a hook at the tip, via the nasal passage, and pulverising the brain which would then subsequently leak out of the nose.


When a body was mummified the internal organs were usually preserved in some way. This was not true of the brain which was often just discarded. This was usually done by inserting a hook up the nose and using it to slice up and remove the brain tissue, with the cavity then being washed out. The reason for this treatment of the brain was that the Ancient Egyptians believed that it was the heart which was where the 'soul' lived.

Many of the mummies which have been examined show damage to the skull in the region of the nose proving that this was the method used. The mummy of Rameses II had peppercorns inserted into the nasal cavity in an attempt to retain his distinctive hooked nose.

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quote:

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Brains
Until the 18th Dynasty, the brain was usually left inside the skull. (However, brains were sometimes removed as early as the Old Kingdom but this was not a commonplace occurrence.) During the 18th Dynasty, the brain began to be removed, most often through the nostril (occasionally through an eye socket or a hole drilled into the skull). After removal, the brain cavity was filled with sawdust, resin, and/or resin-soaked linen. By the end of the 2nd Century A.D., brain removal had mostly stopped.

Nostrils
The nostrils were often plugged, especially by the New Kingdom. Resin covered with onion skin was put in nostrils of Ramesses IV. Mummymakers plugged nostrils with wax during the 21st Dynasty. One mummy's nose was even plugged with peppercorns during the 21st Dynasty.

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quote:

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Ramses II’s nose was propped up with a bone to enhance his kingly profile and filled with peppercorns, to reawaken his sense of smell.

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Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                         

quote:

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Art imitating life? A limestone chip
found at Karnak with a relief sketch
of a gaunt Thutmose IV (above right)
bears a strong resemblance to the
profile of No. 61073, the “emaciated”
mummy labeled “Thutmose IV” (above left),
which in recent years has been proposed
as the possible remains of Amenthotep III,
even though he was obese in his later years.

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Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

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Originally posted by Glider:

King, you may not be Black, but sure seem to be easily fooled by this Black Myth. Have you ever tried thinking for yourself and reading a little about these BLACK CARPETBAGGERS

A good place to start is the Skeptics Dictionary, which define the Myth Movement of Lies and more Lies.

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quote:

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Glider asked about Africa's "claim" to Egypt:

After almost eighteen years, has anything changed at all?

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quote:

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To which Sundiata replied:
Not really. Only that a bit of the insistence has become increasingly justified by contemporary data. [/qb]

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quote:

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Glider then asked:

What contemporary data are you talking about? Can you provide some actual details of these recent discoveries that support your claims?

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quote:

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So Sundiata answers and rattles out only a handful of the mountains of evidence:

It would have indeed helped out a ton if you were versed in the said field that you promote all over this forum, however, I will cite some brief literature:


Origins (archaeology):

Dynastic race of NonAfricans as founders of Egyptian civilization? Not really!

This invasion theory was very much a product of its time. Individuals such as Hitler encouraged this approach, but in fact diffusionist theories involving superior racial groups bringing civilization to indigenous peoples were popular among many of the colonial powers of western Europe. At the time, Africa was known as "the heart of darkness", and was thought to be incapable of producing an advanced culture without outside influence. In fact, it was the defeat of Nazism, and the granting of independence to many of the former European colonies in Africa, that would finally drive such theories from popularity. Though invasion theories would persist among a few Egyptologists for some time, and even see a resurrection in popular works as late as the 1990s, most scholars abandoned their search for the foreign origins of Egyptian civilization. Today, we look instead for indigenous development and the roots of dynastic Egyptian culture within the Nile Valley itself and the immediate territory surrounding this cradle of civilization.

The Origin of Egyptian Civilization

The period when sub-Saharan Africa was most influential in Egypt was a time when neither Egypt, as we understand it culturally, nor the Sahara, as we understand it geographically, existed. Populations and cultures now found south of the desert roamed far to the north. The culture of Upper Egypt, which became dynastic Egyptian civilization, could fairly be called a Sudanese transplant. Egypt rapidly found a method of disciplining the river, the land, and the people to transform the country into a titanic garden. Egypt rapidly developed detailed cultural forms that dwarfed its forebears in urbanity and elaboration. Thus, when new details arrived, they were rapidly adapted to the vast cultural superstructure already present. On the other hand, pharaonic culture was so bound to its place near the Nile that its huge, interlocked religious, administrative, and formal structures could not be readily transferred to relatively mobile cultures of the desert, savanna, and forest. The influence of the mature pharaonic civilizations of Egypt and Kush was almost confined to their sophisticated trade goods and some significant elements of technology. Nevertheless, the religious substratum of Egypt and Kush was so similar to that of many cultures in southern Sudan today that it remains possible that fundamental elements derived from the two high cultures to the north live on.
Egypt and Sub-Saharan Africa: Their Interaction , Encyclopedia of Precolonial Africa, by Joseph O. Vogel, AltaMira Press, Walnut Creek, California (1997), pp. 465-472


In his Genesis of the Pharaohs, Toby Wilkinson shines new light on the Predynastic by demonstrating that the majority of rock drawings in the Eastern Desert of Upper Egypt date to Naqada I (c. 4000–3500 BC). Since the petroglyphs depict wild African fauna, hunters with bows and dogs, and men herding cattle, it is clear that the now nearly lifeless region up to 100 km east of the Nile between Quft and Hierakonpolis was at this time a well-watered, well-populated, game-rich savanna. That the rock artists were not mere isolated pastoralists but also part-time Nile dwellers is evident because their works commonly include boats. This implies that the artists probably moved from river to range in seasonal cycles. Because of this, and the fact that so many of the drawings echo subjects in later Egyptian art, Wilkinson makes a compelling case that the rock artists were the ancestors of the dynastic Egyptians. His conclusion: “the heavy reliance of these people on herding and hunting rather than agriculture suggests that their roots — and indeed the roots of Egyptian civilization — lay not so much along the Nile but in the pre-arid Sahara.”
Genesis of the Pharaohs: Genesis of the ‘Ka’ and Crowns?


Quote:
The discoveries at Nabta Playa suggest the possibility of a previously unrecognized relationship between the Neolithic people living along the Nile and pastoralists in the adjacent Sahara which may have contributed to the rise of social complexity in ancient Egypt. This complexity, as expressed by different levels of authority within the society, forms the basis for the structure of both the Neolithic society at Nabta and the Old Kingdom of Egypt. It was this authority at Nabta which made possible the planned arrangement of their villages, the excavation of large, deep wells, and the construction of complex stone structures made of large, shaped and unshaped stones. There are other Nabta features which are shared by the two areas, but which appear suddenly and without evident local antecedents in the late Predynastic and early Old Kingdom in the Nile Valley. These include the role of cattle to express differences of wealth, power and authority, the emphasis on cattle in religious beliefs, and the use of astronomical knowledge and devices to predict solar events. Many of these features have a prior and long history of development at Nabta.

Late Neolithic megalithic structures at Nabta Playa

"This sub-Saharan culture is likely to be the predecessor of the Egyptians." - Source


Also see: Ancient Egyptian as an African Language, Egypt as an African Culture

Christopher Ehret
Professor of History, African Studies Chair
University of California at Los Angeles


Origins (Anthropology/Population Biology):

Determination of optimal rehydration, fixation and staining methods for histological and
immunohistochemical analysis of mummified soft tissues

A-M Mekota1, M Vermehren2

Biotechnic & Histochemistry 2005, 80(1): 7_/13

"Materials and methods
In 1997, the German Institute for Archaeology headed an excavation of the tombs of the nobles in Thebes-West, Upper Egypt. At this time, three types of tissues were sampled from different mummies: meniscus (fibrocartilage), skin, and placenta. Archaeological findings suggest that the mummies dated from the New Kingdom (approximately
1550_/1080 BC).....The basal epithelial cells were packed with melanin as expected for specimens of Negroid origin."

Abstract, Here. Full PDF inaccessible atm.

Side note: We know the word "Negroid" to be a misnomer in anthropology, however, the raw data and implications are the same. Same with this next citation:


The nature of the body plan was also investigated by comparing the intermembral, brachial, and crural indices for these samples with values obtained from the literature. No significant differences were found in either index through time for either sex. The raw values in Table 6 suggest that Egyptians had the “super-Negroid” body plan described by Robins (1983). The values for the brachial and crural indices show that the distal segments of each limb are longer relative to the proximal segments than in many “African” populations (data from Aiello and Dean, 1990). This pattern is supported by Figure 7 a plot of population mean femoral and tibial lengths; (data from Ruff, 1994), which indicates that the Egyptians generally have tropical body plans. Of the Egyptian samples, only the Badarian and Early Dynastic period populations have shorter tibiae than predicted from femoral length. Despite these differences, all samples lie relatively clustered together as compared to the other populations. - Sonia Zakrzewski (2003)

Male Badarian crania were analyzed using the generalized distance of Mahalanobis in a comparative analysis with other African and European series from the Howells’s database. The study was carried out to examine the affinities of the Badarians to evaluate, in preliminary fashion, a demic diffusion hypothesis that postulates that horticulture and the Afro-Asiatic language family were brought ultimately from southern Europe. (The assumption was made that the southern Europeans would be more similar to the central and northern Europeans than to any indigenous African populations.) The Badarians show a greater affinity to indigenous Africans while not being identical. This suggests that the Badarians were more affiliated with local and an indigenous African population than with Europeans. It is more likely that Near Eastern/southern European domesticated animals and plants were adopted by indigenous Nile Valley people without a major immigration of non-Africans. There was more of cultural transfer.- Early Nile Valley Farmers From El-Badari


"The Naqada [Upper Egypt] and Kerma ["Nubian"] series are so similar that they are barely distinguishable in the the territorial maps; they subsume the first dynasty series from Abydos" - Keita (1990)


"Previous concepts about the origin of the First Dynasty Egyptians as being somehow external to the Nile Valley or less “native” are not supported by archeology. In summary, the Abydos First Dynasty royal tomb contents reveal a notable craniometric heterogeneity. Southerners predominate. The suggestion of previous work, namely that crania with southern and coastal northern patterns might be present in these tombs, has been demonstrated and explained by historical and archaeological data.”" - Keita 1992

These are from:

Studies of Ancient Crania From Northern Africa, S.O.Y. Keita, American Journal of Physical Anthropology (1990)

Further Studies of Crania From Ancient Northern Africa: An Analysis of Crania From First Dynasty Egyptian Tombs, Using Multiple Discriminant Functions, S.O.Y. Keita, American Journal of Physical Anthropology, 87: 245-254 (1992)

Also see: The Geographical Origins and Population Relationships of Early Ancient Egyptians

Professor S.O.Y. Keita
Department of Biological Anthropology
Oxford University

Professor A. J. Boyce
University Reader in Human Population
Oxford University

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^ All of the info above plus images of black Egyptian royals like Tut, Ramses, Thutmose etc etc.

And after all this still in denial. Why? Because racism is a mental disorder, Glider is in need of some serious psychiatric help.

Posts: 26280 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged |