posted
Perhaps it was due in part to the humiliation of the nation that had allowed the Aamu ("clumsy servants") to insinuate themselves into the Delta, attain positions of wealth, marry Satut Kemé (IE, native women), and then ultimately seize control of this region; that would later lead to the installment by the liberated, reunited Kemet of a more radical political legitimacy (as well as the new desire to create an empire in Asia); launched, of course, from the south:
Protection of Royal Matrilineal Descent It was during the 18th dynasty, and never before this time, that there was imposed an absolute prohibition for any royal heiress to marry anyone other than a reigning king.
Nefertiti and Tutankhamen Also during this period, though not exclusive to it, the pictorial displays of the Queen (mother) only depicted them with their female children. No sons are ever depicted simply because they were irrelevant to royal succession. This fact has caused a few observers to make the superficial conclusion that these queens did not bear any male children! (It is also a convenient way to deny the reality of Kemet being a matriarchal society; Western mythology at work again).
It is almost certain, given the radical legitimist characteristics of this dynasty, that Nefertiti was the mother of Tutankhamen, who was the last king of this family dynasty, beginning with Iohotep. In any event, he, like all legitimate royals with the appropriate circumstance, married his sister AnkhesenAmen. Brother-Sister marriage kept the royal blood pure...
The Emergence of Great Kememou Women It is also probably due to the humiliation of the nation by the Aamu occupation, and the reaction of solidifying the Royal line of matrilineal descent, that we witness the emergence of powerful and influential women; Aames-Nefertari, Tiye, Nefertiti, and Hatshepsut (a man's name). In fact, it is for certain that Hatshepsut established the first recorded instance in history in which not only did the woman provide the legitimacy to rule but also actually ruled as well...
Royal Queen Mothers The beginning of the 18th dynasty actually occurred during the 17th Dynasty and the struggle to expel the "Hyksos" (Mdu Ntr:Hek khasu or "foreign rulers") from the Delta: The Great Queen Mother of this dynasty was Iohotep (The Moon is Pleased), who was probably originally from "Sudan"; who is by lineage the ancestor of Queen Tetisheri; queen mother of the 18Th dynasty.
> also related to this lineage is Queen Tiye, daughter of Lady Thuya; a descendant of a prominent (elite) family from Akhmin, Upper Egypt. Nefertiti being the daughter of Tiye.
Nsu;Nsuten;Suten These are the more traditional names for the king, which fundamentally is an ideological statement that the Kingship is of southern origin, in its most legitimist form. The term Pharaoh is a Hebrew spelling of the Mdu Ntr word "Fer-ao" which means "Great (double) Houses." but because of its biblical usage, it has become the most popular current title for the king; in reality, Nsu;Nsuten;Suten meant king, royalty, the south. ...
Posts: 3344 | From: Berkeley | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
Although I do not doubt at all the importance women had in royal descent, I do question the ephasis on matrilineage. I seems to me that the royalty was either patrilineal if not bilineal. I believe there are references to males in need of male heirs.
In cases of true matrilineal rule, male rulers are usually the brothers of royal heiresses, but Egyptian Pharoahs need not be brothers but only sons of previous pharaohs.
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: Although I do not doubt at all the importance women had in royal descent, I do question the ephasis on matrilineage. I seems to me that the royalty was either patrilineal if not bilineal. I believe there are references to males in need of male heirs.
In cases of true matrilineal rule, male rulers are usually the brothers of royal heiresses, but Egyptian Pharoahs need not be brothers but only sons of previous pharaohs.
The following analysis of the Akan matriarchy could have easily been used to describe Ancient Kemet; one would only have to substitute Kemet for Akan...
quote: Wilhelmina J. Donkoh, a faculty member in history at the University of Ghana, talked about the Asante, one of the matrilineal Akan-speaking peoples of Ghana as a culture of cooperation, as well. Female leaders, she said, play a central role in the sociopolitical system of the Asante, but, she stressed, they do so in collaboration with men. “There is an intricate network of relationships that recognize women as central and important but acknowledge men’s role,” she said. Asante ancestry is traced to a mother figure, which is also reflected in Asante origin stories. In one of the culture’s stories, the female foundress descends from the skies with a retinue of people and settles on the earth to populate it. In another origin account, men and women emerge from the earth and the women become founders of clans or lineages. The female-founded clan forms the basis of Asante society. Every person of the clan is seen as inheriting “blood” from the mother and “spirit” from the father. “One is always certain of the mother, but not necessarily the father,” explains Donkoh. The concept of “cousins” or “aunts” does not exist among the Asante; all women are considered mothers and all children of the clan are considered brothers and sisters. While matrilocality, or living on the mother’s homestead, is preferred, in some cases a new wife may go to live with her husband’s family. Spiritually, the Asante acknowledge multiple levels of reality: the future spirit realm of the unborn, the present realm of the living, and the realm of life after death. Natural phenomena such as rocks, mountains, and lakes are seen to be the dwelling places of female spirits. Female deity is balanced by the presence of a supreme being who is considered male, an omniscient force that provides people with essentials such as water and sun. “Akan society is a sacred society,” Donkoh observed. “They acknowledge spirit in all they do.” Ancestors, for example, are honored through an offering of the first morsel of every meal and the first drop of every drink. http://www.universitadelledonne.it/english/matriarchy1.htm
The false notion of Kings Contemporary folks who live in Patriarchal societies, and totally ignorant of Matriarchal societies, try to deny the existence of the Matriarchal reality by pointing out the fact that these societies are ruled by Kings. Well, Akan society was ruled by Kings as well; the prime example being the Ashanti kingdom in northern Ghana. Heck, if the Ashanti civilization was ruled by Queens, you wouldn't have a matriarchal society but a MATRIARCHATE! The total control of the society by women! This would be illogical to the African concept of Maat, of balance, of the unity of opposites, of order and stability. And the role of woman in African matrilineal society can best be illustrated by the part played by the great Queen Mother Yaa Asantewaa in the Ashanti wars against British colonialism; the same intellectual tradition that gave us Tiye, Nefertiti, Aames Nefertari, the Candaces of the Sudan, Angela Davis and on and on goes this cultural/ideological continuum...
Those who deny the reality of Kemet as being a matriarchal society are not only in denial but should be thrown into Da Nile! Posts: 3344 | From: Berkeley | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
What about different dynasties originating from Kemetian groups having different social organizations?
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quote:Originally posted by maa'-kherew: Could you reference the hieroglyphs that transliterate to Kememou and the texts that use it?
Budge, in his dictionary, provides the source and usage (ie, definition) of this word. You'll have to research this yourself...
Posts: 3344 | From: Berkeley | Registered: Oct 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Gedegbe: What about different dynasties originating from Kemetian groups having different social organizations?
What about them? "Kemetian" groups who start a dynasty, even if it be a military coup, must show or establish its legitimacy by marrying a royal female from Upper Egypt/Sudan (ie, to show some ancestral link to Isis). Ancient Egypt was legitimist and matrilineal until the end of Pharaonic Egyptian civilization...
Posts: 3344 | From: Berkeley | Registered: Oct 2003
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quote:Originally posted by maa'-kherew: Could you reference the hieroglyphs that transliterate to Kememou and the texts that use it?
Budge, in his dictionary, provides the source and usage (ie, definition) of this word. You'll have to research this yourself...
Actually, Budge does not. That has been the major complaint against Budge in comparison to Gardiner and others.
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posted
OK then, maybe the obligation of royal matrilineality was restricted to the founding of the dynasty (the son of the first King with the Southerner woman already having "royal blood" running through his veins)? It could explain the reference of Kings in need of male heirs mentioned by Djehuti.
quote:Originally posted by Wally:
quote:Originally posted by Gedegbe: What about different dynasties originating from Kemetian groups having different social organizations?
What about them? "Kemetian" groups who start a dynasty, even if it be a military coup, must show or establish its legitimacy by marrying a royal female from Upper Egypt/Sudan (ie, to show some ancestral link to Isis). Ancient Egypt was legitimist and matrilineal until the end of Pharaonic Egyptian civilization...
posted
I personally don't think Egypt or even its royalty were matrilineal just because they were African as there also plenty evidence of patrilineal royal ascention from other African cultures. You should be careful about using West African societies as examples all the time when there are northeast African cultures closer in relation to Kemet.
Judging from evidence where heirs to the throne had to be sons of the Pharoah, it looks like Egyptians were patrilineal but women had significance to the 'throne' in that a legitimate Pharaoh must have a chief wife who is of royal Egyptian blood. The royal incest may explain this, and it may also have to do with mimicking the gods-- Ausar and Auset.
If I may add a non-African example, rulers in Southeast Asia practiced a similar tradition. The kings of Sukothai (ancient Thailand) for example were very patrilineal and ensured that only sons of the ruling king inherited the throne, and although the king had his own harem of wives and concubines only the son of his chief wife had the right of ascension to the throne. And the kings chief wife was always a Thai woman of royal family.
Posts: 26280 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: I personally don't think Egypt or even its royalty were matrilineal just because they were African as there also plenty evidence of patrilineal royal ascention from other African cultures. You should be careful about using West African societies as examples all the time when there are northeast African cultures closer in relation to Kemet.
Judging from evidence where heirs to the throne had to be sons of the Pharoah, it looks like Egyptians were patrilineal but women had significance to the 'throne' in that a legitimate Pharaoh must have a chief wife who is of royal Egyptian blood. The royal incest may explain this, and it may also have to do with mimicking the gods-- Ausar and Auset.
If I may add a non-African example, rulers in Southeast Asia practiced a similar tradition. The kings of Sukothai (ancient Thailand) for example were very patrilineal and ensured that only sons of the ruling king inherited the throne, and although the king had his own harem of wives and concubines only the son of his chief wife had the right of ascension to the throne. And the kings chief wife was always a Thai woman of royal family.
The accurate presentation of history is or should be predicated on solid evidence and not upon personal speculations:
Thusly;
You must provide evidence which:
a) Show any instance in the history of Pharaonic Egyptian civilization where ascent to the throne was predicated upon being descendant from the male.
b) Show any instance where, also, the following has been contradicted by Ancient Egyptian history:
quote: "Because of the need to ensure that the next king was born to a woman of the purest royal blood and because the role of the Great Royal Wife was of the greatest importance to the succession, the ruling king was usually married to the Great Royal Daughter (who was customarily his sister and the eldest daughter of the previous king and his Great Royal Wife). Inheritance thus passed through the female line; to substantiate his claim to the throne and gain acceptance of his own son as the next heir, each royal heir presumptive had to marry the Great Royal Daughter...Even claimants who had only tenuous links with the main royal line could legitimatize their kingship if they married the royal heiress. --Handbook to Life in Ancient Egypt, p87 by Rosalie David, Oxford
...and then you'll have a case...
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posted
^ To answer your prior questions Wally, the evidence is seen in the very fact that only men could be pharaohs. There is also an ancient Egyptian text written by a non-royal man who nontheless stressed the importance of sons to continue the family lineage. However, that still does not refute the fact that women were still keepers of the throne which is why in order for a man to be pharaoh he must first take a royal woman as his bride, and this is also the reason why Pharaohs can marry foreign women to include into their harems but foreign princes were forbidden from marrying Egyptian princesses as seen here.
Posts: 26280 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
^ Indeed so, but those were exceptions. The pharaoh was generally male. This can be seen in other African kingdoms where the ruler was usually male but with female exceptions every now and then, who usually served as regents.
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