posted
It is quite obvious for an African that AE are pretty much similar to other East African people physically...and skeletal remains show strong elongated features typical of Africans super Negros(as they call them in anthropology...the long neck, long bodies, very dark skin in some instance, and big eyes are typically African)...so why people think they are Asian...I want to explore the genuine part of that perception...not the cynical part...it's obvious that some non Africans think genuinely that AE are Asians...why is that? Actually the first time someone told me that they were Black in real life, was a guy from Djibouti, basically he told me I met some indigenous Egyptian performing in a concert and they look like Black Africans...when you look at pictures you see whatever you want...but when an African from the same region tells you that...you just have to believe it...
Black or white? Egyptian immigrant fights for black classification Hefny
July 16, 1997 Web posted at: 4:22 a.m. EDT (0822 GMT)
From Correspondent Joan MacFarlane
DETROIT (CNN) -- An Egyptian immigrant is suing the U.S. government because they've told him he's white when his entire life he's been black.
Mostafa Hefny was born in Egypt and has always been proud of his Egyptian culture and his African ancestry. But when Hefny immigrated to America, the U.S. government told him he was no longer a black man.
"I was not told by Immigration that I was white until I passed the exam for citizenship and then I was told I am now white," he explains.
Hefny initially laughed when told of his new racial classification, but he's no longer chuckling. He recently filed suit against the U.S. government to get his race classification changed back from white to black.
"It hurts me. It definitely hurts me," Hefny says. "It hurts me because I am unable to reconcile my reality as a black person."
In addition to the emotional hurt, Hefny says that when the government changed his race, they also changed his social status.
"Definitely, I would've had more opportunity for advancement and even for hiring had I been considered black," he says. "I was prevented from applying and requesting positions and other benefits for minority person because I knew I was legally white." Origin determines race Hefny
One of the problems with the naturalization process, in Hefny's opinion, is that race is classified by geographic location and not ancestry. That's part of the immigration process his lawsuit hopes to change.
The lawsuit targets Directive Number 15 of the U.S. Office of Management and Budget. The directive defines black as a person having origins in any of the black racial groups of Africa. A white person is defined as having origins in any of the original peoples of Europe, North Africa or the Middle East.
"In the late '60s and early '70s, they found that different agencies were using different definitions for the same categories of people, and they thought it was important to have comprehensibility across federal agencies," explains Sally Katzen of the OMB.
The OMB is hoping to change the way they define races by revamping the troublesome directive.
"The principle we thought very important is self-identification," Katzen says. "I think that it is almost beyond dispute that an individual should identify himself or herself rather than have someone else do it."
Although it seems the government agrees with Hefny in principle, it refuses to respond publicly to his lawsuit. He expects that response later this year.
Posts: 461 | From: Kilimanjaro | Registered: Jan 2008
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Population history of north Africa: evidence from classical genetic markers.
Bosch E, Calafell F, Pérez-Lezaun A, Comas D, Mateu E, Bertranpetit J.
Laboratori d'Antropologia, Facultat de Biologia, Universitat de Barcelona, Catalonia, Spain.
After an intensive bibliographic search, we compiled all the available data on allele frequencies for classical genetic polymorphisms referring to North African populations and synthesized the data in an attempt to reconstruct the populations' demographic history using two complementary methods: (1) principal components analysis and (2) genetic distances represented by neighbor-joining trees. In both analyses the main feature of the genetic landscape in northern Africa is an east-west pattern of variation pointing to the differentiation between the Berber and Arab population groups of the northwest and the populations of Libya and Egypt. Moreover, Libya and Egypt show the smallest genetic distances with the European populations, including the Iberian Peninsula. The most plausible interpretation of these results is that, although demic diffusion during the Neolithic could explain the genetic similarity between northeast Africa and Europe by a parallel process of gene flow from the Near East, a Mesolithic (or older) differentiation of the populations in the northwestern regions with later limited gene flow is needed to understand the genetic picture. The most isolated groups (Mauritanians, Tuaregs, and south Algerian Berbers) were the most differentiated and, although no clear structure can be discerned among the different Arab- and Berber-speaking groups, Arab speakers as a whole are closer to Egyptians and Libyans. By contrast, the genetic contribution of sub-Saharan Africa appears to be small.
PIP: An extensive bibliographic search was conducted to compile all available data on allele frequencies for classical genetic polymorphisms referring to North African populations. The data were then synthesized to reconstruct the population's demographic history using principal components analysis and genetic distances represented by neighbor-joining trees. Both analyses identified an east-west pattern of genetic variation in northern Africa pointing to the differentiation between the Berber and Arab population groups of the northwest and the populations of Libya and Egypt. Libya and Egypt are also the smallest genetic distances away from European populations. Demic diffusion during the Neolithic period could explain the genetic similarity between northeast Africa and Europe through a parallel process of gene flow from the Near East, but a Mesolithic or older differentiation of the populations into the northwestern regions with later limited gene flow is needed to understand this genetic picture. Mauritanians, Tuaregs, and south Algerian Berbers, the most isolated groups, were the most differentiated, while Arab speakers overall are closer to Egyptians and Libyans. The genetic contribution of sub-Saharan Africa appears to be small.
Publication Types: Research Support, Non-U.S. Gov't
PMID: 9164042 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
BTW, your article seems to have forgotten to mention the fact that DR HEFNY IS NUBIAN. Posts: 315 | From: Deep Earth | Registered: Feb 2007
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Glider, Do you realize that what you just posted says that Europeans mixed with Black Africans? Do you realize that? Just do some search about E3b and Neolithic farmers that introduced farming in Europe? I'm not sure about your education background...but just google up what I've just written...E3b is mainly found in the area of ancient European civilization like Greece, 1/3 of Greeks have the African E3b gene, that's what the article says...Neolithic farmers who introduced farming in Europe carried that gene which indicate Black African ancestry..
Posts: 461 | From: Kilimanjaro | Registered: Jan 2008
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^ LOL Glider realises all that since genetics is discussed here all the time and everyone here knows E3b an African genetic signature is found in southern Europe and the Levant, but Glider is in DENIAL. As he is in denial with everything else about Egypt.
Also, Hefny may be Nubian but this Fellah man from Abydos is not:
Posts: 26252 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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Also, other studies have been done which prove that the populations of Modern Egypt and Ancient Egypt are essentially the same people genetically.
Secrets of the Pharaohs Episode 2: Lost City of the Pyramids (minute 42)
NARRATOR: But in order to figure out the significance of the pyramids to later generations, the archaeologists still had to find out who the builders had been. Zahi turned back to the tombs, looking for the missing links that would definitively establish who these people were, where they were from, and what had motivated them to take part in this massive project. These questions hold great cultural significance for modern Egyptians, who have had to endure many bizarre theories about who built their most precious national treasures.
DR. ZAHI HAWASS (EGYPTIAN UNDERSECRETARY, GIZA MONUMENTS): It's very important to know that they were Egyptians. They were not people who came out of the space. They were not came from lost civilizations as we hear these days many stories that do not really have any truth in them at all.
NARRATOR: But would the bones support Zahi's contention that the workforce was Egyptian? Before the discoveries at Giza, scientists in Cairo had been analyzing the DNA of modern Egyptians. Now, they had managed to successfully extract DNA from the ancient bones. A genetic comparison would be able to establish whether a relationship existed. The results were definitive.
DR. MOAMENA KAMEL (IMMUNOLOGIST, CAIRO UNIVERSITY): People who are living here, they are the same as the people who had been living 6000 years ago. OK? And now the moderns are the descendants of these ancient Egyptians.
NARRATOR: The DNA confirmed a close relationship between the modern Egyptians living in the Nile Valley and the ancient workers who had been buried there. For Zahi, this was an extremely significant find.
ZAHI HAWASS: It proves -- for no doubt -- that the builders of the pyramids were Egyptians. And you know, if they were not Egyptians, they would not have been buried here. They would never be buried in the same method of the ancient Egyptians. You do not have any doubt to tell us that those people are Egyptians at all. They were Egyptian by blood.
Posts: 315 | From: Deep Earth | Registered: Feb 2007
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The above post is not serious...many modern indigenous view themselves as Black even the ex-moderator of this forum is from Egypt and view himself as Black...I'm from Africa and don't care about AE personally...but I met with people who met with indigenous Egyptians who have less mixed blood as people from Northern Egypt like Mubarak...they told me that they look Black...I don't know your agenda Glider...but you have a problem...By the way indigenous people are mainly located in the south and don't really look like Egyptians from Cairo or Iraeli, Palestinians or Europeans...Actually some don't even have the same fine features as other East Africans...they tend to look more Sudanese or Central Africans...
Posts: 461 | From: Kilimanjaro | Registered: Jan 2008
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^ *Yawn* Habari, don't take the angry Afrangi seriously. Again, he is in a state of psychotic delusion. We have been over this issue a dozen times now...
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: First of all, Hawass is not a geneticist so appealing to his authority on genetic matters is not very wise.
Second, I am aware of the report you speak of and to be precise Hawass's initial statement which he took directly from the geneticists was that the ancient pyramid workers were the same as modern workers in the same area of Giza.
Have you seen how these modern workers look like? Here is a photo of one below
And lastly, it is foolish to make the blanket statement that ancient Egyptians are genetically the same as modern Egyptians when it is a basic fact of history as well as genetics that the populations of Egypt have changed drastically in the last couple of millennia due to foreign invasions and immigrations!
When it comes to genetic lineage, there are various facets like mitochondrial DNA, Y-chromosomal DNA, nuclear DNA, etc. Yet all the studies make it clear that the original lineages of the Egyptian people before all the foreign incursions was African.
Here is a map showing Y-chromosome lineages.
^ The Egyptian sample comes from the Delta area, yet notice the percentage of African E lineages in green.
Not surprisingly, the amoung of African lineages increase the farther one goes south and especially in rural areas where people have mixed little with outsiders.
Hawass can call the ancient Egyptians his ancestors if he wants, since he very well could descend from native Egyptians, however his physical appearance as well as the fact that he was born in the city of Damietta (an Arab settlement turned colonial city during the Islamic invasions), can safely say that he is NOT the same as his ancestors who were native to Egypt.
Here by the way is a genetic map of the world:
^ Notice African E lineages (specifically E3b) is found in southern Europe such as Greece and the Levant such as Palestine which makes genetic distances between these areas and Egypt small as well as as with other parts of Sub-Saharan East Africa. Posts: 26252 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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Here are more non-Arab non Asian and non-Nubian Egyptians:
Of course the only images Glider can post are Arab Egyptians who deny their black African heritage. Posts: 26252 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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Djehuti, I want him to explain us why Greek have so much Black African blood:1/3 of their gene makeup is Black African...So not only Black African people contribute to AE but also to the Ancient Greek civilization which produced democracy which is the back bone of the "Western Civilization". Conclusion: Without the Afro-Asiatic induced Neolithic revolution in Europe....no America....
Posts: 461 | From: Kilimanjaro | Registered: Jan 2008
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quote:Originally posted by Glider: ANCIENT EGYPTIANS
^ Okay, we know. You posted those same images before. What's your point? If it's their features, we told you a hundred times before that black Africans in other parts of Africa have those same features.
Posts: 26252 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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Also there is no caption as to what periods in Egypt's 3,000 year history{start with the AD 1 and figure out how far we have to go to get to the AD3000] the above figure belonged to. Also, merely having a sculpture being done in AE does not signify anything about origins.
But there is also a serious problematic with so-called "genetic distance". Is it measured cladistically or geno-taxonomically?
The sensible way to go about getting some idea of what the AEs were is to examine their murals where they portrayed themselves in GROUPS. Finally recent genetic tests[paper escapes me at the moment] on remains of AEs show that they were very heavily pigmented.
Posts: 5492 | Registered: Nov 2004
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Look, you're going to find light skinned thin featured people of non-continental African extraction in every period of Egypt's history from the LSA and neolithic periods right up to the Greek takeover.
There weren't human DNA tuned "bug zappers" at the border. People were drawn to the place for the same reasons they flock to 1st world economy nations today.
The thing is the frequency of non-continentals is miniscule compared to continentals and that's why The South Will Rise Again Dixie Glider must post the same images over and over again and also why he can't distinguish the one from the other so that some of his picture spam is of light skinned thin featured continental Africans instead of what he believes are "white people" or "off-white people" or whatever the fudge he thinks they are.
Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006
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[*IMG]http://www.nubianet.org/about/img/1C3_7.jpg[/IMG] Of course the only images Glider can post are Arab Egyptians who deny their black African heritage.
Posts: 315 | From: Deep Earth | Registered: Feb 2007
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^ So?! Nubianet has plenty of pictures of Egyptians not just Nubians! All of those pics are of Egyptians! LOLPosts: 26252 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Habari: It is quite obvious for an African that AE are pretty much similar to other East African people physically...and skeletal remains show strong elongated features typical of Africans super Negros(as they call them in anthropology...the long neck, long bodies, very dark skin in some instance, and big eyes are typically African)...so why people think they are Asian...I want to explore the genuine part of that perception...not the cynical part...it's obvious that some non Africans think genuinely that AE are Asians...why is that? Actually the first time someone told me that they were Black in real life, was a guy from Djibouti, basically he told me I met some indigenous Egyptian performing in a concert and they look like Black Africans...when you look at pictures you see whatever you want...but when an African from the same region tells you that...you just have to believe it...
modern east africa has diversity has well from sudan to uganda.i just have a funny feeling when east africa is spoken about only horn of african countries are talked about.sudan,uganda,tanzania and kenya are left out and these states have more broad head types on average than ethiopia,somalia,eritrea and djibouti.
Posts: 2688 | Registered: Jul 2004
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quote:Also, other studies have been done which prove that the populations of Modern Egypt and Ancient Egypt are essentially the same people genetically.
This is both a false statement, and a reflection of the fact that Glider doesn't know what he's talking about.
Glider, given your 'alleged' beliefs, please explain the following....
quote:Originally posted by Evergreen: Determination of optimal rehydration, fixation and staining methods for histological and immunohistochemical analysis of mummified soft tissues A-M Mekota1, M Vermehren2
Biotechnic & Histochemistry 2005, 80(1): 7_/13
"Materials and methods In 1997, the German Institute for Archaeology headed an excavation of the tombs of the nobles in Thebes-West, Upper Egypt. At this time, three types of tissues were sampled from different mummies: meniscus (fibrocartilage), skin, and placenta. Archaeological findings suggest that the mummies dated from the New Kingdom (approximately 1550_/1080 BC).
The basal epithelial cells were packed with melanin as expected for specimens of Negroid origin."
posted
^^Seriously, rasol, why are you trying him/her. He is just here to annoy and detract from serious and intelligent debate. All he/her can do is spam cherry-picked pictures of arab egyptians.
-------------------- Dont be evil - Google Posts: 426 | From: Cali-for-nia | Registered: Jan 2006
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Glider, you are an obnoxious little troll who seems to exist only to irritate the black posters here and lower the level of discourse on this forum. Give us a good reason why we should tolerate your presence.
quote:Seriously, rasol, why are you trying him/her.
^ Glider is quite the lightweight and doesn't annoy me.
He's not even a mosquito, he's just a harmless fly.
I don't care about him.
I do care about this though....
quote:Determination of optimal rehydration, fixation and staining methods for histological and immunohistochemical analysis of mummified soft tissues A-M Mekota1, M Vermehren2
Biotechnic & Histochemistry 2005, 80(1): 7_/13
"Materials and methods In 1997, the German Institute for Archaeology headed an excavation of the tombs of the nobles in Thebes-West, Upper Egypt. At this time, three types of tissues were sampled from different mummies: meniscus (fibrocartilage), skin, and placenta. Archaeological findings suggest that the mummies dated from the New Kingdom (approximately 1550_/1080 BC).
The basal epithelial cells were packed with melanin as expected for specimens of Negroid origin."
^ Trolls are denoted not only by what they make noise about, but also by what they are *defeaningly silent* about. Posts: 15202 | Registered: Jun 2004
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Glider can also address Champollion, who deciphered 'ancient egyptian' via the Rosetta stone:
The first tribes that inhabited Egypt, that is, the Nile Valley between the Syene cataract and the sea, came from Abyssinia to Sennar. The ancient Egyptians belonged to a race quite similar to the Kennous or Barabras, present inhabitants of Nubia. In the Copts of Egypt, we do not find any of the characteristic features of the ancient Egyptian population. The Copts are the result of crossbreeding with all the nations that have successively dominated Egypt. It is wrong to seek in them the principal features of the old race.
Why would Champollion say this after visiting Egypt over 100 years ago?
What's wrong.... Don't the modern Egyptians look *the same* as Ancient Egyptians?
If not, why not?
Why does Champollion think that ancient egyptians are related to modern nubians, and ethiopians, and *not* the modern Copts of the delta whom he is referring to?
For the fun of it, lets assume that Champollion is wrong.
What led Champollion to the wrong conclusions?
Posts: 15202 | Registered: Jun 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: ^ LOL Glider realises all that since genetics is discussed here all the time and everyone here knows E3b an African genetic signature is found in southern Europe and the Levant, but Glider is in DENIAL. As he is in denial with everything else about Egypt.
Also, Hefny may be Nubian but this Fellah man from Abydos is not:
Hefny is as Egyptian as the man from Abydos. Nubia is a ethnic reference, but they are STILL EGYPTIAN by nationality and have ALWAYS been. There has never been a state or kingdom called Nubia that defined a nubian nationality. Therefore, trying to pretend that Nubians are NOT Egyptians is about as racist and stupid as saying native Americans are not part of the U.S.A. So-called "nubians" Nubians have been in that region since BEFORE there was a country called Egypt. They ARE the closest example to what the ancient folks of that part of the Nile looked like going back 5,000 -10,000 years and more. So the ONLY reason to call then Nubian, is to try and create a FAKE dichotomy between black Africans of largely INDIGENOUS ancestry and other Africans of non indigenous ancestry, with those of non indigenous ancestry being passed off as aboriginal....
This seems to be Glider's point.
Posts: 8893 | Registered: May 2005
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Population history of north Africa: evidence from classical genetic markers.
Bosch E, Calafell F, Pérez-Lezaun A, Comas D, Mateu E, Bertranpetit J.
Laboratori d'Antropologia, Facultat de Biologia, Universitat de Barcelona, Catalonia, Spain.
After an intensive bibliographic search, we compiled all the available data on allele frequencies for classical genetic polymorphisms referring to North African populations and synthesized the data in an attempt to reconstruct the populations' demographic history using two complementary methods: (1) principal components analysis and (2) genetic distances represented by neighbor-joining trees. In both analyses the main feature of the genetic landscape in northern Africa is an east-west pattern of variation pointing to the differentiation between the Berber and Arab population groups of the northwest and the populations of Libya and Egypt. Moreover, Libya and Egypt show the smallest genetic distances with the European populations, including the Iberian Peninsula. The most plausible interpretation of these results is that, although demic diffusion during the Neolithic could explain the genetic similarity between northeast Africa and Europe by a parallel process of gene flow from the Near East, a Mesolithic (or older) differentiation of the populations in the northwestern regions with later limited gene flow is needed to understand the genetic picture. The most isolated groups (Mauritanians, Tuaregs, and south Algerian Berbers) were the most differentiated and, although no clear structure can be discerned among the different Arab- and Berber-speaking groups, Arab speakers as a whole are closer to Egyptians and Libyans. By contrast, the genetic contribution of sub-Saharan Africa appears to be small.
Publication Types: Research Support, Non-U.S. Gov't
PMID: 9164042 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
So what are we to make of this study? Well the reason why genetic distances between these groups is small is because of demic diffusion from Africa into Europe during not only Neolithic times but Mesolithic times as well in the case of the Iberian peninsula. Of course the Arabic speakers of Egypt and Libya are closest related to Egyptians than non-Arabic speakers of the Maghreb simply because many Arab speakers have ancestry from the ancient Egyptians. But this is not to say they don't have any foreign ancestry as everyone knows Libya and especially Egypt has experienced immigration of foreigners.
Also the last part about little influence from Sub-Sahara is misleading-- actually the whole article is because they fail to specify what the lineage is -- that is E3b1 which ultimately did originate in Sub-Sahara.
^ Notice how much African E lineage is present among the Arab Egyptian sample. Heck even the Arabs of Oman carry African E lineages! You can't tell a persons ancestry by looks alone. There are many light-skinned 'Arab' peoples with significant black African ancestry and even among such folks you can still tell by the hint of certain features that their ancestors were black.
Sorry Glider. Posts: 26252 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: ^ LOL Glider realises all that since genetics is discussed here all the time and everyone here knows E3b an African genetic signature is found in southern Europe and the Levant, but Glider is in DENIAL. As he is in denial with everything else about Egypt.
Also, Hefny may be Nubian but this Fellah man from Abydos is not:
Hefny is as Egyptian as the man from Abydos. Nubia is a ethnic reference, but they are STILL EGYPTIAN by nationality and have ALWAYS been. There has never been a state or kingdom called Nubia that defined a nubian nationality. Therefore, trying to pretend that Nubians are NOT Egyptians is about as racist and stupid as saying native Americans are not part of the U.S.A. So-called "nubians" Nubians have been in that region since BEFORE there was a country called Egypt. They ARE the closest example to what the ancient folks of that part of the Nile looked like going back 5,000 -10,000 years and more. So the ONLY reason to call then Nubian, is to try and create a FAKE dichotomy between black Africans of largely INDIGENOUS ancestry and other Africans of non indigenous ancestry, with those of non indigenous ancestry being passed off as aboriginal....
This seems to be Glider's point.
The Black Cheerleader is making a CARPETBAGGER out of himself, AGAIN.
The Ancient Egyptians were NOT NUBIANS and went out of their way to SHOW THAT NUBIANS ARE VERY DIFFERENT. Try to get this through your THICK SKULL.
All it takes for an inteligent person is one look at some of the Ancient Egyptian Art to understand that the people of Ancient Egypt were NOT BLACK AFRICANS and their SOUTHERN NEIGHBORS (NUBIANS,ETC..), WERE INDEED, BLACK AFRICANS, but some of them were MIXED. Your problem is judging the Ancients by your limited racist environment, THE BLACK SOUTH, where Philipino could be considered BLACK.
Posts: 315 | From: Deep Earth | Registered: Feb 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Glider: The Black Cheerleader is making a CARPETBAGGER out of himself, AGAIN.
No. But you are making a FOOL of yourself as USUAL.
quote:The Ancient Egyptians were NOT NUBIANS and went out of their way to SHOW THAT NUBIANS ARE VERY DIFFERENT. Try to get this through your THICK SKULL.
No. Try to get THIS through your thick skull:
NOBODY EVER SAID THE EGYPTIANS WERE NUBIANS!
'NUBIA' IS A NAME THE ROMANS USED FOR THE LANDS SOUTH OF EGYPT!
THERE WERE MANY DIFFERENT GROUPS OF NUBIAN PEOPLES. THE EGYPTIANS DEPICTED SOME OF THEM AS DIFFERENT WHILE OTHERS AS SIMILAR TO THEMSELVES.
WHY? BECAUSE BLACK AFRICANS VARY IN FEATURES AND COMPLEXION, AND THE EYGPTIANS WERE BLACK AFRICANS ALSO!
quote:All it takes for an inteligent person is one look at some of the Ancient Egyptian Art to understand that the people of Ancient Egypt were NOT BLACK AFRICANS and their SOUTHERN NEIGHBORS (NUBIANS,ETC..), WERE INDEED, BLACK AFRICANS, but some of them were MIXED...
No. All it takes is an intelligent person to look at many works of Egyptian art to understand that the Egyptians were indeed black Africans. This is also supported by archaeology, physical anthropology, and more recently genetics. Yet you are in DENIAL of all of these FACTS!
By the way, you still have not explained how some Nubians were "mixed". Who were they mixed with?? What evidence shows they were mixed with anything? Sounds like more manure-selling.
quote:Your problem is judging the Ancients by your limited racist environment, THE BLACK SOUTH, where Philipino could be considered BLACK.
LMAO Nope. I don't have a racist problem but YOU do if you continue to deny that the ancient Egyptians who built one of the earliest and most sophisticated civilizations were black Africans. Here in the south Filippinos such as myself are not considered black not even by black people, but ANYWHERE in the world these people below are black!
Tut:
Amenhotep III
Hatshepsut
Thutmose III
Ramses the Great:
Posts: 26252 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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Oh yeah, I forgot to point out (just to show who the REAL liar is). That only the last picture is from Nubia-Net. The others are not. But even the last picture from Nubia-net shows a non-Nubian Egyptian man from Luxor in the tomb of Senefer in the Valley of the Kings. The narration shows that the rural Egyptian man has the same skin color as the tomb owner-- an ancestor of his.
So there goes more manure that missed. Posts: 26252 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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No. All it takes is an intelligent person to look at many works of Egyptian art to understand that the Egyptians were indeed black Africans. This is also supported by archaeology, physical anthropology, and more recently genetics. Yet you are in DENIAL of all of these FACTS!
By the way, you still have not explained how some Nubians were "mixed". Who were they mixed with?? What evidence shows they were mixed with anything? Sounds like more manure-selling.
NOW FEAST YOUR EYES: MR BLACK CARPETBAGGER!Posts: 315 | From: Deep Earth | Registered: Feb 2007
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OPEN YOUR BLACK RACIST EYES A LITTLE WIDER: AND SMILE!
ANCIENT EGYPT WAS NOT A BLACK NATION! REPEAT A 100 TIMES...SILLY LITTLE BLACK FILIPINO!Posts: 315 | From: Deep Earth | Registered: Feb 2007
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Glider: the more racist remarks you make the less convincing your arguments are...I think your racist thoughts are clearly transparent and leads you to post selective pictures about AE...anyway as I said earlier you are just the product of America's race obsessed society...nothing can be done about you...let's pray for your redemption...
Posts: 461 | From: Kilimanjaro | Registered: Jan 2008
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^^Seriously guy, what are you proving? They already showed various genetic graphs and studies and meanwhile you keep spamming selective pics. You already lost. Just deal with it
-------------------- Dont be evil - Google Posts: 426 | From: Cali-for-nia | Registered: Jan 2006
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The reasons why AEs are viewed as "Asian" by some non-Africans are essentially twofold.
1) The first reason is racial Eurocentrism. The fact that Africa was increasingly subjugated by Europe soon after the expulsion of the Moors in 1492 plus the defeat of Songhay at the battle of Tondibi(1593. See Timbuktu historians Abderrahman Sadi and Mahmoud Kati texts "Tariqh es-Soudan and Tariqh el-Fettach for eyewitness accounts of the event)by a Moroccan-Spanish expedition) meant that there had to be an ideological justification for the Atlantic trade in captive humans to the Americas.
The explanation that was dredged up was that "Africans are a biologically inferior sub-group of humanity whose role was restricted to that of being the slaves of Europeans in the new capitalist venture". Thus Africans could not have produced what Europeans called "civilization".
Though there was empirical evidence of an impressive and very early civilization in Africa--i.e. Ancient Egypt--it could not have been developed singlehandely by Africans. So, as the German philosopher Hegel put it, "Egypt was geographically in Africa--but not OF Africa". This was the basis for the Eurocentric idea of an "invading dynastic race"(Breasted) and the subsequent "Hamitic hypothesis"(Seligman) of "invading caucasoids from Asia".
And even so, Ancient Egypt was viewed in European circles as a "Semitic civilization" of Asian origin. In fact, even today in the museums[war booty staches] of the West Ancient Egyptian art is housed in the "Semitic or Oriental Art" section. Never in the "African Art" section.
So that's the surviving paradigm: Africans/blacks are biologically inferior to Europeans and Asians in terms of intellectual endowments so they could not have created "civilization".
2)The second reason is a cultural-colonial-historical one. The Arab expansion through invasions into West Asia and North Africa created a whole new culture area. Christianity was erased from North Africa and replaced by Islam. The Arabic language also replaced most of the indigenous languages in most of North Africa and West Asia--except in Iran, Afghanistan and Turkey. And the colonial fealty to Arabia and Arabism was cemented by one of the pillars of Islam which required an annual pilgrimage to Macca. Thus the rule was look East and pray--looking East.
Thus a whole new colonial cultre area was established that stretched from Morocco to Pakistan in the East and from Spain to the Equator in Africa.
That Islamic culture area lost some ground with the expulsion of the Moors and Arabs from Spain in the late 15th century and the eventual repulse of the Turks from Central Europe dating from the 14th century to the 18th century. The Turks had conquered all of North Africa and West Asia during the Ottoman period but when ultimately defeated by the West during WWI all its colonial territories passed over into Western hands from Iraq and all of North Africa.
The West adminstered the newly acquired areas but did not seek to change the religion nor did it render obsolete the Arabic language. Though French, Italian and English were imposed as official languages in those areas. This is the geopolitical basis for bringing all the Arabic speaking areas and those fully immersed in Islam(Turkey, Iran, Pakistan, Afghanistan, etc.) under one culture-area umbrella: the Near East and the Middle East. Note that Sudan is offically--i.e. by Western fiat--part of the "Middle East".
What has compounded matters is the fact that with the Arab invasions into North Africa came new migrants from West Asia in the tradition of previous migrants and invaders from Greece, Rome, Persia, Turkey, etc.
So from a Western perspective and from the perspective of Arab colonisation the intellectual and the psychological mindset of North Africans the Maghreb(North Africa) is part of West Asia and the so-called "Arab world".
Interesting phenomenon: The French and Italians colonised North Africa--with the French claiming that Algeria was part of France. The French established a large settler colony in Algeria but they were subsequently driven out. The Italians had to withdraw from Libya too, but aapart from intermittent uprisings from the Berbers Arabism with its cultural accoutrement of Islam has not been seriously challenged. Just as Christianity and the European cultural/linguistic colonisation of the Americas has never been seriously challenged. The Mayans, Incas, Aztecs are just history now.
Yet the Europeans were expelled from Asia and most of Africa though leaving behind their self-serving colonial apparatuses--legal systems, languages, colonial boundaries, colonial infrastructures--which still wield enormous influence and power especially in Africa.
The French at one time marked out an impressive amount of territory in so-called "French Indo-China" but the Vietnamese put a huge hurting on them in 1954 causing them to flee the area. Uncle "let me do it" Sam rode in to the rescue but was also rebuffed. So all France has now as colonial booty is Quebec, Cayenne, Tahiti and New Calendonia. And a few island specks here and there--Martinoque, Guadeloupe, St Baarts, etc. That's where the American "surrender monkeys" comes from.
So the question is: why hasn't Arabism and Islam expelled from North Africa and Egypt? is it the same reason why Europeanism in all its dimensions has not been expelled or extirpated--as in the case of Vietnam--from the Americas?
Posts: 5492 | Registered: Nov 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Mmmkay: ^^Seriously guy, what are you proving? They already showed various genetic graphs and studies and meanwhile you keep spamming selective pics. You already lost. Just deal with it
READ AND LEARN MY FRIEND; DON'T BE A CARPETBAGGER TOO!
Cavalli-Sforza et al. (1994) compared populations from throughout the world using extensive genetic data. The North African populations grouped with West Eurasian (European, Middle East) populations rather than sub-Saharan Africans.
Di Rienzo et al. (1994) studied the relationship of three samples (taken from Egyptians, Sardinians, and sub-Saharan Africans), using mitochondrial DNA and simple sequence repeats. In terms of genetic distance, the Egyptian sample was closer to the Sardinian sample than to the sub-Saharan African sample.
Hammer et al. (1997) used seven different methods to compute population trees of world populations, using Y-chromosome data. All seven methods grouped the Egyptians with the non-African populations rather than with the sub-Saharan Africans. Egyptians' genetic profile resembles that of South Europeans more than the other regional groups in the study.
Poloni et al. (1997). Egyptians and a few other African populations (Tunisians, Algerians, and even Ethiopians) showed a stronger Y-chromosome similarity to non-African Mediterraneans than to the remainder of Africans mostly from south of the Sahara.
Bosch et al. (1997), using classical genetic markers, calculated Egyptians to be genetically very close to Mediterranean Asians and Europeans. (journal abstract)
Genetics of Ancient Egyptians
Scientists at the University of Cairo tested DNA from the remains of pyramid workers from 2600 BC, and found that the DNA of ancient Egyptians matches that of modern Egyptians. That is, the people living in Egypt now are essentially the same as the people living there thousands of years ago. (Read an excerpt from PBS's Secrets of the Pharaohs)
Borgognini-Tarli and G. Paoli, 1982. The ABO blood type frequencies of ancient Egyptians showed no signs of differing significantly from that of present-day Egyptians. According to the authors, "the blood-group distribution obtained for Asiut, Gebelen and Aswan necropoles shows resemblances with the present leucoderm population of Egypt and particularly with its more 'conservative' fraction (the Copts, MOURANT et al., 1976)."
Posts: 315 | From: Deep Earth | Registered: Feb 2007
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UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
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Glider realises all that since genetics is discussed here all the time and everyone here knows E3b an African genetic signature is found in southern Europe and the Levant, but Glider is in DENIAL. As he is in denial with everything else about Egypt. 
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