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Originally posted by Thought2:
Sight Writes:

Haplotype V (E-M81) XI (E-M78) and IV (E-M2) constitute the PN2 Clade which is GROUP III. Your confusing terminology specific to this paper with GENERAL terminology. The PN2 clade is of Sub-Saharan origin.

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Sight Writes:

E-M81 is found in its highest frequency within Berber speaking populations. E-M78 is found in its highest frequency among Somali's, Oromo and Borano of Kenya. A branch of E-M78 spread out to the Near east and Europe during the early Holocene. E-M2 is found in its high frequncis in Senegal, Upper Egypt and Nubia and Central Africa.

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Originally posted by Thought2:
Sight Writes:

Haplotype V (E-M81) XI (E-M78) and IV (E-M2) constitute the PN2 Clade which is GROUP III. Your confusing terminology specific to this paper with GENERAL terminology. The PN2 clade is of Sub-Saharan origin.

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This is not as simple as you think.

The three main subclades of haplogroup E3b (E-M78, E-M81, and E-M34) and the paragroup E-M35* are not homogeneously distributed on the African continent: E-M78 has been observed in both northern and eastern Africa, E-M81 is restricted to northern Africa (particulary among Berber speaking populations), E-M34 is common only in eastern Africa, and E-M35* is shared by eastern and southern Africans (Cruciani et al. 2002). Given the strong geographic structuring observed for the four subsets of E3b within Africa, it is possible that different E3b lineages also have different frequency profiles in western Eurasia and that the evolutionary events underlying the introduction of E3b chromosomes in this area from Africa were not as simple (Rosser et al. 2000; Richards et al. 2002; Jobling and Tyler-Smith 2003) as previously proposed

Here's the whole study

Phylogeographic Analysis of Haplogroup E3b (E-M215) Y Chromosomes Reveals Multiple Migratory Events Within and Out Of Africa.

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Originally posted by Orionix:
This is not as simple as you think.

The three main subclades of haplogroup E3b (E-M78, E-M81, and E-M34) and the paragroup E-M35* are not homogeneously distributed on the African continent: E-M78 has been observed in both northern and eastern Africa, E-M81 is restricted to northern Africa (particulary among Berber speaking populations), E-M34 is common only in eastern Africa, and E-M35* is shared by eastern and southern Africans (Cruciani et al. 2002). Given the strong geographic structuring observed for the four subsets of E3b within Africa, it is possible that different E3b lineages also have different frequency profiles in western Eurasia and that the evolutionary events underlying the introduction of E3b chromosomes in this area from Africa were not as simple (Rosser et al. 2000; Richards et al. 2002; Jobling and Tyler-Smith 2003) as previously proposed

Here's the whole study

Phylogeographic Analysis of Haplogroup E3b (E-M215) Y Chromosomes Reveals Multiple Migratory Events Within and Out Of Africa.

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Thought Writes:

This same paper states:

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Originally posted by Thought2:
Thought Writes:

This same paper states:

"Early event invloved the dispersal of E-M78 chromosomes from Eastern Africa..."

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The E3b haplotype spread from eastern Africa some 10,000 years ago (8000 BC). It's still found in the high frequencies in present-day Ethiopia.

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Originally posted by rasol:
Kenndo I don't know if you are being facetious or not, but the data in question tells us about the relationship between Upper Egypt and Lower Nubia, clines B and C, although other groups are mentioned in the study there is not cline data. Read the cline data, not just the commentary:

ex: Haplotype XI [very important in Ethiopia] also shows a preponderance in the south (in C, 30.4%; B, 28.8%) (Lower Nubia and Upper Egypt) compared to the north (11.7% in A)

This particularity shows strong affinity (almost identical) between Upper Egypt and Lower Nubia and genetic "distinction" in the Delta. It also infers, but does not supply data, that Africa as far interior as Ethiopia would share affinity with Nubia and Upper Egypt...however, no data for that.

This study is used by people (usually eurocentrically) who don't actually read the data, or simply don't know how to.

[This message has been edited by rasol (edited 14 November 2004).]

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lower nubians are connected to other nubians,even if most of lower nubians mixed later,i replied to the wrong post.

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Originally posted by Orionix:
What you said is a subjective opinion. Ethiopians and Yemenis share a common ancestry from 3,000 years ago.

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Not at all, it makes plenty of sense.

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The Amhara are Semetic Ethiopians who migrated back from Yemen to Ethiopia some 3000 years ago.

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Wrong , the archaeological and historical data do not support this, there is no record of 'Amhara' in Yemen before they appear in Ethiopia.

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1. "The occurrence of E*5 212 and E*5 204 alleles in two populations of the Mediterranean basin (Turkey and Italy) but not in West Africans can be explained by taking into account that the Ethiopian gene pool was estimated to be >40% of Caucasoid derivation (Cavalli-Sforza et al. 1994). In addition, more recent phylogenetic analysis based on classical protein polymorphism (Tartaglia et al. 1996) and Y-chromosome sequence variation (Underhill et al. 2000) showed that Ethiopians appear to be distinct from Africans and more closely associated with populations of the Mediterranean basin."

(Scacchi et al., Human Biology, 2003)[7quote]

Why do you spam racial reality's website copy and pasting his nonsense? That study says Ethiopians are 40% caucasoid, yet are more similar to populations of the Mediterranean Basin, its contradicting itsaelf unless they want to say those same Mediterranean populations are 60% Negroid.

[quote]The two main groups inhabiting the country are the Amhara, descended from Arabian conquerors,

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Arabians NEVER conquered Ethiopians, so waht Arabian conquerees are they speaking of? Might I mind you the historical reference that study used came from a 1966 encyclopedia article.

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Haplogroups M and N are Asian maternal haplogroups, not African. Only L1, L2 and L3 are African maternal haplogroups.

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Originally posted by S.Mohammad:
M and N radiated OUT OF AFRICA, they were the only two maternal haplogroups that left Africa, learn how to properly reference the material. Authors called them Asian because they both comprise all Eurasian variation, but both left Africa, M via a southern route from the Horn of Africa into southern Arabia and N via a northern route through the Levant

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First of all we cannot argue with geneticists who understand population genetics 20x more.

You are talking about Y-chromosomal haplogroup E which spread out of eastern Africa some 10,000 years ago.

Extant genetic diversity within Africa is particularly complex, not only because of its primary role in the evolution of our species but also because Africa was both a source and a recipient of transcontinental gene flow during different episodes of human history. In addition to the Strait of Gibraltar connecting Iberia and Maghreb (North Africa) (Hitti 1990; Newman 1995; Bosch et al. 2001), two other migration routes between Africa and Eurasia are generally considered, the Levantine corridor and the Horn of Africa (Cavalli-Sforza et al. 1994; Kivisild et al. 1999; Quintana-Murci et al. 1999; Stringer 2000; Underhill et al. 2001b; Bar-Yosef 2002; Nebel et al. 2002). These two passageways have their immediate termini at opposite ends of the Arabian Peninsula, the geographic nexus of Africa, Europe, and Asia. Although a principal-component analysis of African populations, based on 79 protein polymorphisms (Cavalli-Sforza et al. 1993, 1994) and mtDNA haplogroups (Salas et al. 2002), revealed pan-African substructure, only slight differences are suggested between the Nile River Valley in the north and regions near the Bab-el Mandeb channel located between the Horn of Africa and the Arabian Peninsula. Furthermore, Y chromosome data involving 63 samples from Cairo typed at 10 binary markers failed to detect any genetic barriers between Egypt and the Middle East (Manni et al. 2002). These studies suggest a regional genetic continuity among the Nile River Valley, the Middle East, and the Arabian Peninsula. In contrast, analysis of a larger set of Egyptian samples using the complex 49a,f polymorphic system revealed some geographic substructure in the Nile River Valley (Lucotte and Mercier 2003). However, direct correlation to PCR-compatible binary polymorphisms is often not straightforward, because of the limited resolution and the inherent potential for recurrent mutations in the 49a,f locus.

Source: The Levant versus the Horn of Africa: Evidence for Bidirectional Corridors of Human Migrations (17/2/2004)

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Originally posted by S.Mohammad:
Thought, look at this blatant falsification in this study. It says Tigrai, Amharas, and Guarage, and Falasha Jews are migrants and or conquerers from southern Arabia.
http://evolutsioon.ut.ee/publications/Kivisild2004.pdf

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Thought Posts:

Keita et al.

2004

"The Ethiopian genetic profile may have valid alternative explanations incorporating bi-directional migrations and settlements of great antiquity, depending on how old linguistics would predict the ancestral Ethio-Semetic language to be, in order to account for the present linguistic variation".