posted
Fact, Fiction, and Feel-good History (Evaluating Afrocentrism)
‘The Women’s Quarterly’
Issue: Wntr, 2001
Professor Mary Lefkowitz talks with Charlotte Hays
WAS SOCRATES BLACK? Was Cleopatra an Egyptian nationalist? Was wandering-poet Homer educated in Egypt? Afro-centrists say yes. Wellesley professor Mary Lefkowitz, author of Not Out of Africa, says this is myth. TWQ editor Charlotte Hays recently spoke with Professor Lefkowitz about the perils of treating myth as history.
TWQ: Who started the trend of interpreting ancient history and literature from an Afro-centric perspective and why did it start?
LEFKOWITZ: I'm not sure that it can be traced to any one individual, but it goes back to the nineteenth century when people of African descent yearned for African roots. They had been brought here as slaves cut off from their roots. Those who came from the same part of Africa were kept apart and couldn't communicate with one another. There was a longing for a generalized African culture, which, of course, never existed any more than a generalized European culture or European language. Egypt became the focus of this because Egypt was the oldest civilization and had a marvelous, monumental legacy.
TWQ: Could you tell me about this as a movement in modern academia, where dubious books such as Martin Bernal's Black Athena are assigned reading?
LEFKOWITZ: The modern movement in academia takes up from these old ideas and develops them further but in a couple of directions. One is that a conspiracy theory has been added: The truth has been kept from people of African descent by whites and Europeans who were jealous of it, essentially, and wanted the history of civilization to be theirs and theirs alone. And this fits in very nicely with the kind of paranoid politics that are so popular in this country. A book that was very influential for many people is a book called Stolen Legacy, which was written by a man who died before he finished the manuscript named George G. M. James. The book was completed by Yosef A. ben-Jochannan, a pupil of James' at a small college in Arkansas. It wasn't really in universities until relatively recently. But, it has been out there since the middle of this past twentieth century. And many, many people read it, and it seemed to fit their idea of the way they had been treated by American society. And so a lot of people who co me into university teaching had read the book, had grown up on it, and some of them realized that it was based on false assumptions. Others didn't want to believe that.
TWQ: What about the idea that Europeans "stole" the African legacy? Can you steal another culture?
LEFKOWITZ: You can't steal a culture in the way you can steal a piano or a car. This is one of the most basically wrong assumptions in the book. If I steal your car, you don't have it, but if I steal your culture, you still have your culture. The perfect example of that is Greece and Rome. The Romans adopted Greek culture. They thought it was better than their culture, and they simply adopted it and did their own thing with it. But, meanwhile, the Greeks still had their culture.
TWQ: Does Stolen Legacy imply that somehow this alleged appropriation impoverished African culture?
LEFKOWITZ: Yes. I think it's implied that the Greeks took it and ran with it and that African culture as a result never got the credit it deserved. There's another false assumption operating with the notion of the stolen legacy; and that is the whole picture of Egypt, which comes not from scientific Egyptology, which dates from about the 1830s, but from mystical Egyptology; which was widely popular before then. This concept is based on a misunderstanding of Egypt that was developed in the eighteenth century. There is a notion of Egyptian mysteries, which are basically Greco-Roman in nature. This is based on Freemasonry, as I say in my book, and Freemasonry is essentially a European notion of Egypt. That's the notion of Egypt that's in Stolen Legacy. The great irony is that in saying this is African culture, they're really presenting European culture.
TWQ: What is Egyptian mystery religion?
LEFKOWITZ: Egyptian mystery religion is basically Greco-Roman mysteries, a series of initiation rites. A mystery means initiation.
So, it's an initiation where you go through a series of tasks or a series of revelations in order to become a member of an elite group. And that's something that the Greeks and Romans did. The example that people know best is the Eleusinian Mysteries.
TWQ: The ancient Greek historian Herodotus seemed to think that the Greeks had borrowed some religious practices from the Egyptians. Did the father of history get it wrong?
LEFKOWITZ: Well, he got it wrong to a great degree. And this is not just my saying so. Egyptologists say so as well. He got a great deal right, but he also got a great deal wrong. The reason he got it wrong was that, when he traveled in Egypt, he was relying on people who knew Greek to tell him things and he made assumptions that simply weren't there. For example, he says that the names of all the Greek gods come from Egypt. And a famous Egyptologist, Jan Assmann, who is German, has just written a book saying they must have been telling him the names of the Egyptian gods in Greek.
And, therefore, he thought they were the same because they were interpreting it for him. There had been Greeks living in Egypt and a number of Egyptians knew Greek and that's probably how it all came about. But the father of history did a remarkably good job considering that nothing like this had been done before. What he didn't see--what he heard from others--is more suspicious.
TWQ: Author John Hendrick Clarke, whom you quote in the book, wrote in his book, Black Women in Antiquity, that Cleopatra was "a shrewd politician and Egyptian nationalist. She committed suicide when she lost control of Egypt. "Is that an accurate portrayal of Cleopatra?
LEFKOWITZ: She wasn't a nationalist in the sense that I think one would mean today. And she wasn't an Egyptian. She came from a line of Macedonian Greek rulers, and there's a remote possibility, which I discuss in my book, that her paternal grandmother may have been something other than a Greek. I don't think it's very likely. But basically Cleopatra's first language was Greek and her culture was Greek, though she was the first of her line to learn Egyptian. She wanted to keep her empire. She was the richest and most powerful ruler in the world, but she needed the Roman army to protect her. She bet on the wrong horse, Mark Antony, whose forces were defeated at Actium. She committed suicide because she did not wish to be led through the streets of Rome in the celebration of Octavian's triumph over Egypt.
TWQ: What about facts? Don't facts intrude on these Afro-centric interpretations?
LEFKOWITZ: Well, yes. The facts intrude a great deal on these interpretations, and this is what I've tried to show. In my estimation, the whole discussion of history should be about facts and how facts are used as evidence. I've been accused of racism simply because I've mentioned facts and evidence. The race card is a smoke screen--a way of keeping one away from the truth. The sophisticated version of myth taught as history is to use postmodern theory and to claim that all knowledge is only the opinion of a particular group. I don't believe that, because I think there is such a thing as truth.
TWQ: What is wrong with teaching history that may be factually wrong but makes people feel better about themselves and their heritage?
LEFKOWITZ: A number of my colleagues have made this argument. I can't tell you the number of non-African-American academics who have been angry at me for pointing our that Afro-centrism is fiction. It shouldn't be taught as history just because it gives people a feeling that they have a wonderful heritage. There are many important things about Africa that people don't know and should know.
There is reason to think of Egypt as an African civilization and to look at that as one of the many important things that have been done in Africa. But that can be accomplished by sticking to historical facts. However, if you teach people myth instead of history, eventually they're going to find out that this is not exactly what happened. It also exposes those people to ridicule. If I come in and say, well, George Washington chopped down the cherry tree and I firmly believe this, people will think I'm really quite foolish.
TWQ: Are there any other dangers to teaching myth as history?
LEFKOWITZ: I think there are a lot of dangers. There are some very disturbing similarities between this sort of teaching of blood history, what I'd call tribal history, and the Third Reich. It's a kind of history in which your group is felt to be predominant and, most important, the reason it's dominant is not virtue but race. They said in the Third Reich that the Germans were the master race and the will of the Volk was really the most important thing. It was on that basis that the Holocaust happened.
TWQ: What's been the response on campus to your book? Have you been able to have good debates with Afro-centrists?
LEFKOWITZ: No, I haven't had any debates with my colleagues that have been productive at all. The few debates that have taken place have not been about the issues--not about the evidence, but simply about racial pride and prejudice in this country. I have no objection at all to talking about racism and the problems of racism. Goodness knows, I certainly hate racism, but racism has nothing to do with this. And, as I say, invoking racism is throwing up a smoke screen--talking about how my work is racist because it doesn't praise black people.
TWQ: Is all of this impinging upon academic freedom?
LEFKOWITZ: I don't think it has impinged on mine though a certain amount of pressure was brought on me by one of our former deans. But should we not talk about this because it upsets black students? Well, unfortunately, the truth does upset people from time to time. The truth about colonialism is upsetting to many people of European descent. But that certainly shouldn't stop us from talking about it. Now, academic freedom should also protect those who teach extreme Afro-centric stuff. And I defend that because I think that if you take away one person's academic freedom, you're going to take away the next person's also.
TWQ: Some Afro-centrists teach things that demonstrably aren't true. What's the difference between academic freedom and freedom of speech?
LEFKOWITZ: It's a very difficult thing to really get a handle on. But, if the university is supposed to be a place where you are advancing knowledge, you don't advance knowledge by teaching that there was no Holocaust. You're teaching your students to ignore evidence and to distort facts. I feel similarly about the notion of a stolen legacy, that it isn't doing the students who study this any good. And, therefore, while one is free to say in open society any kind of nonsense one wants, when one says it in the university, one is doing an awful lot of damage and that ought to be recognized.
What do you do about it? That's the hard question. Do you have a board of people who decide whether a thing is good or bad? I think that that's a possibility, but it's very difficult because the board could be stacked one way or the other. And you get into all sorts of litigation problems, so it may be really better just to let it work out in the normal course of discussion because the truth usually emerges in an open society. And I think it really has in this case over a period of time. People like Leonard Jeffries [who taught Afro-centric theories of antiquity at New York University] and Molefi Kete Asante [author of Kemet, Afrocentricity, and Knowledge] are discredited by most of the public, though they still have some admirers and hangers-on.
But the academic freedom that protects them is the same academic freedom that protects me.
COPYRIGHT 2001 Independent Women's Forum
COPYRIGHT 2001 Gale Group
Posts: 315 | From: Deep Earth | Registered: Feb 2007
| IP: Logged |
quote: Determination of optimal rehydration, fixation and staining methods for histological and immunohistochemical analysis of mummified soft tissues
A-M Mekota1, M Vermehren2
Biotechnic & Histochemistry 2005, 80(1): 7_/13
"Materials and methods In 1997, the German Institute for Archaeology headed an excavation of the tombs of the nobles in Thebes-West, Upper Egypt. At this time, three types of tissues were sampled from different mummies: meniscus (fibrocartilage), skin, and placenta. Archaeological findings suggest that the mummies dated from the New Kingdom (approximately 1550_/1080 BC).
The basal epithelial cells were packed with melanin as expected for specimens of Negroid origin."
posted
The last thing Mary Lefkowitz should be talking about history is that makes people feel good...after all, what is the idea behind the Greek Miracle? The idea that Greek Civilization came into being with any influence from the outside?
Fact of the matter is Eurocentrists like her feel threatened whenever someone begins to pick apart "truths" about "European Civilization" and give credit to obviously non-European people. So she is a living example of the type of person she's complaining about.
Posts: 1219 | From: North Carolina, USA | Registered: Jul 2004
| IP: Logged |
quote: Determination of optimal rehydration, fixation and staining methods for histological and immunohistochemical analysis of mummified soft tissues
A-M Mekota1, M Vermehren2
Biotechnic & Histochemistry 2005, 80(1): 7_/13
"Materials and methods In 1997, the German Institute for Archaeology headed an excavation of the tombs of the nobles in Thebes-West, Upper Egypt. At this time, three types of tissues were sampled from different mummies: meniscus (fibrocartilage), skin, and placenta. Archaeological findings suggest that the mummies dated from the New Kingdom (approximately 1550_/1080 BC).
The basal epithelial cells were packed with melanin as expected for specimens of Negroid origin."
^ No answer, eh?
Keep Gliding........
Posts: 315 | From: Deep Earth | Registered: Feb 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
^ It must be one great scam then, since it leaves you dumbstruck.
Determination of optimal rehydration, fixation and staining methods for histological and immunohistochemical analysis of mummified soft tissues
A-M Mekota1, M Vermehren2
Biotechnic & Histochemistry 2005, 80(1): 7_/13
"Materials and methods In 1997, the German Institute for Archaeology headed an excavation of the tombs of the nobles in Thebes-West, Upper Egypt. At this time, three types of tissues were sampled from different mummies: meniscus (fibrocartilage), skin, and placenta. Archaeological findings suggest that the mummies dated from the New Kingdom (approximately 1550_/1080 BC).
The basal epithelial cells were packed with melanin as expected for specimens of Negroid origin."Posts: 15202 | Registered: Jun 2004
| IP: Logged |
There can be no doubt that the Colchians are an Egyptian race. Before I heared any mention of the fact from others, I had remarked it myself. After the thought had struck me, I made inquiries on the subject both in Colchis and in Egypt, and I found that the Colchians had a more distinct recollection of the Egyptions, than the Egyptians had of them. Still the Egyptions said that they believed the Colchians to be descended from the army of Sesostris. My own conjectures were founded, first, on the fact that they are black-skinned and have wooly hair, which certainly ammounts to but little, since several other nations are so to....
posted
BLACK RACIST CARPETBAGGERS' HERO: HERODOTUS
quote: Herodotus' invention has earned him the twin titles The Father of History and The Father of Lies[1]. As these epithets would seem to imply, there has long been a debate—at least from the time of Cicero's 'On the Laws' (Book 1, paragraph 5)—concerning the veracity of his tales, and, more importantly, concerning the extent to which he knew himself to be creating fabrications. Indeed, every manner of argument has surfaced on this subject, from a devious and consciously-fictionalizing Herodotus to a gullible Herodotus whose sources 'saw him coming a long way off'.
Posts: 315 | From: Deep Earth | Registered: Feb 2007
| IP: Logged |
Sir Alan Gardiner: Thesy were long-headed-dolicocephalic is the learned term-and below even medium stature, but Negroid features are often to be observed. Whatever may be said of the northerners, it is safe to describe the dwellers in Upper Egypt as of essentially African stock , a character always retained despite alien influences brought to bear on them from time to time." (pg. 392; Egypt of the Pharaohs 1966)
Fact:
X-ray Atlas of the Royal Mummies (Chicago: University of Chicago, 1980).
Courtesy of James Harris and Edward Wente:
In terms of head shape, the XVIV and XX dynasties look more like the early Nubian skulls from the mesolithic with low vaults and sloping, curved foreheads. The XVII and XVIII dynasty skulls are shaped more like modern Nubians with globular skulls and high vaults.
Fact:
The people who bear the greatest resemblence to the ancient Egyptians, at present, are the Nubians; and next are the Abyssinians;
page 530
Edward Lane Manners and Customs of the Modern Egyptians
Fact:
Egypt's Dynastic rulership may have originated in Ta-Seti, thus signaling the first such form of government known to mankind. The idea of a pharaoh (king) may have come down the Nile from Nubia to Egypt (and) that would make Nubian civilization the ancestor of Egypt's... Dr. Bruce Williams, Archaeologist
Posts: 9651 | From: Reace and Love City. | Registered: Oct 2005
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by rasol: ^ It must be one great scam then, since it leaves you dumbstruck.
Determination of optimal rehydration, fixation and staining methods for histological and immunohistochemical analysis of mummified soft tissues
A-M Mekota1, M Vermehren2
Biotechnic & Histochemistry 2005, 80(1): 7_/13
"Materials and methods In 1997, the German Institute for Archaeology headed an excavation of the tombs of the nobles in Thebes-West, Upper Egypt. At this time, three types of tissues were sampled from different mummies: meniscus (fibrocartilage), skin, and placenta. Archaeological findings suggest that the mummies dated from the New Kingdom (approximately 1550_/1080 BC).
The basal epithelial cells were packed with melanin as expected for specimens of Negroid origin."
THE BLACK RACIST ZULU: KNOWS THAT NEGROID IS A USELESS TERM - SKIN COLOR HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH RACE - KEEP DREAMING!
Posts: 315 | From: Deep Earth | Registered: Feb 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
WHAT DO BLACK CARPETBAGGERS DO WHEN FACED WITH SOLID SCIENTIFIC FACTS AND STUDIES?
EGYPTIANS AND NUBIANS
The cultures of Egypt and Nubia are the ones most often claimed by Afrocentrists, usually Americans of West African descent. But the data from anthropology and genetics reveals the Caucasoid make-up of Egyptians, both ancient and modern, and places Nubia, which acquired a partly Negroid character, in the Afro-Asiatic cultural complex, separate from sub-Saharan and West African groups.
"One such concentration of [Paleolithic] food-gatherers is seen in the Sebilian culture of Upper Egypt. The skeletal remains from this culture, which have not yet been published, are said to anticipate in physical type the predynastic, placing a fine Mediterranean type in pre-Neolithic times.
"The importance of these [early Neolithic] people is that they probably represent the prototype of the Neolithic agriculturalists who moved westward along the shore of North Africa to Morocco, and over into Spain, whence they spread the Neolithic economy, with emmer flax, and swine, to the Swiss lakes and to the Rhine. ... The skulls of these people, which consist mostly of females and infants, are all dolichocephalic and Mediterranean. There is no trace of negroid influence and the skulls are said to be larger than those of predynastic Egyptians....
"The [pre-Dynastic] Badarian type represents a small branch of the Mediterranean racial group. ... The Badarian skulls are more prognathous than those of their successors, and have higher nasal indices. ... In fact, while the prognathism and nose form would suggest a negroid tendency, this cannot be established, since the hair form is definitely not negroid. ... Morant shows that the Badarian cranial type is closely similar to that of some of the modern Christians of northern Ethiopia—who incidentally do not show negroid characteristics in the skull—and also to the crania of Dravidian-speaking peoples of southern India. ... On the basis of these racial comparisons, it seems reasonable to suggest that this Badarian physical type may have come from the south, near the headwaters of the Blue Nile. It may represent an early Hamitic racial strain, which persists despite some negroid admixture in Ethiopia and Somaliland to the present day.
"In Lower Egypt lived another group of Mediterranean predynastic people who differed from the Upper Egyptians in certain noticeable ways. The heads were broader, the cranial indices higher, reaching a mean of 75, whereas the Upper Egyptian mean is nearly 72. The vault height is less, the face is no broader, but somewhat longer, and the nasal index is lower.
"The two types from Upper and Lower Egypt represent the extremes of a purely native Egyptian population, but from the beginning of dynastic times, around 3000 B.C. until Ptolemaic times, the numerous series which give an excellent picture of the progress of racial continuity and change in Egypt show the interactions of these two types. The racial history of Egypt in the course of three thousand years was simply the gradual replacement of the Upper Egyptian type by that of Lower Egypt. ... Ancient Egypt must remain the most outstanding example yet known in the world of an important, naturally isolated region in which native racial types were permitted to develop their own way for several thousand years completely uninfluenced by foreign contacts.
"The wealth of contemporary illustrative material from Egyptian art sources may be divided into two classes, conventional representations and portraits. The former show a definite and well-recognized type; slender-bodied and wiry, with narrow hips and small hands and feet. The head and face are those of a smoothly contoured fine Mediterranean form.
"The pigmentation of the Egyptians was usually a brunet white; in the conventional figures the men are represented as red, the women often as lighter, and even white. ... the hair is almost inevitably black or dark brown, and the eyes brown.... The Egyptian representation of foreigners is quite accurate; besides the Libyans, who have Nordic features as well as coloring, Asiatics, with prominent noses and curly hair, sea peoples from the Mediterranean, with lighter skins and a more pronounced facial relief than the Egyptians, are also shown, as well as negroes. ... The Mediterranean pigmentation of the Egyptians has probably not greatly changed during the last five thousand years."
(Coon, 1939) * * *
NUBIANS
"Starting from the Late Neolithic...similarities between the Nubians and the populations of Northeast Africa...and Asia...became even more distinct, which may prove the existence of strong ties derived probably from influx of the Caucasoids from the regions of Levant, Mesopotamia, and India. They were coming to Nubia through the Sinai Peninsula, but probably also through the south Saudi Arabia. The Kerma series from Upper Nubia shows particular similarities to the present-day Indian series. "From the Neolithic on, or possibly even earlier, the strategic location of Nubia, promoting contacts between various populations, started to bring about effects in the form of the civilizational development of this region. Finally, these two factors led to the Hamitisation process, whereby superimposition of the Caucasoids on the Negroids took place."
"To assess the extent to which the Nile River Valley has been a corridor for human migrations between Egypt and sub-Saharan Africa, we analyzed mtDNA variation in 224 individuals from various locations along the river. Sequences of the first hypervariable segment (HV1) of the mtDNA control region and a polymorphic HpaI site at position 3592 allowed us to designate each mtDNA as being of 'northern' or 'southern' affiliation. Proportions of northern and southern mtDNA differed significantly between Egypt, Nubia, and the southern Sudan.
"...we can infer that the migration of northern mtDNA types to the south is older than the migration of southern mtDNA types to the north (or that there has been less gene flow from north to south than from south to north along the Nile River Valley) and that Egypt and Nubia have had more genetic contact than either has had with the southern Sudan. Moreover, we can tentatively infer that these migrations occurred recently enough to fall within the period of the documented historical record of human populations in the Nile River Valley."
(Krings et al. 1999)
* * *
"...the present study on the Y-chromosome haplotype shows that there are northern and southern Y-haplotypes in Egypt. The main Y-haplotype V is a northern haplotype, with a significantly different frequency in the north compared to the south of the country: frequencies of haplotype V are 51.9% in the Delta (location A), 24.2% in Upper Egypt (location B), and 17.4% in Lower Nubia (location C). On the other hand, haplotype IV is a typical southern haplotype, being almost absent in A (1.2%), and preponderant in B (27.3%) and C (39.1%). Haplotype XI also shows a preponderance in the south (in C, 30.4%; B, 28.8%) compared to the north (11.7% in A) of the country.
"It is interesting to relate this peculiar north/south differentiation, a pattern of genetic variation deriving from the two uniparentally inherited genetic systems (mtDNA and Y chromosome), to specific historic events. Since the beginning of Egyptian history (3200-3100 B.C.), the legendary king Menes united Upper and Lower Egypt. Migration from north to south may coincide with the Pharaonic colonization of Nubia, which occurred initially during the Middle Kingdom (12th Dynasty, 1991-1785 B.C.), and more permanently during the New Kingdom, from the reign of Thotmosis III (1490-1437 B.C.). The main migration from south to north may coincide with the 25th Dynasty (730-655 B.C.), when kings from Napata (in Nubia) conquered Egypt."
(Lucotte et al. 2003)
* * *
"The Hpal (np3,592) mitochondrial DNA marker is a selectively neutral mutation that is very common in sub-Saharan Africa.... From 29 [Merotic Nubian] individuals analysed, only 15 yield positive amplifications, four of them (26.7%) displaying the sub-Saharan African marker. Hpa 1 (np3,592) marker is present in the sub-Saharan populations at a frequency of 68.7 on average. Thus, the frequency of genes from this area in the Merotic Nubian population can be estimated at around 39% (with a confidence interval from 22% to 55%). The frequency obtained fits in a south-north decreasing gradient of Hpa I (np3,592) along the African continent. Results suggest that morphological changes observed historically in the Nubian populations are more likely to be due to the existence of south-north gene flow through the Nile Valley than to in-situ evolution."
(Fox, 1997)
Posts: 315 | From: Deep Earth | Registered: Feb 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
I'd just like to point out what you said about Herodotus was absurd. It would make no since to lie about the skin color of a people known to everyone in the world and why would he lie about what the people he met with looked like. We already know all Greeks and Romans saw Egyptians as black
You would be better off claiming the original Egyptians were lighter colored and were negrofied when Kush conquered Egypt, thats the only explanation for your little theory on Egypt Posts: 2642 | Registered: Sep 2007
| IP: Logged |
"They say also that the Egyptians are colonists sent out by the Ethiopians, Osiris having been the leader of the colony. For, speaking generally, what is now Egypt, they maintain, was not land but sea when in the beginning the universe was being formed; afterwards, however, as the Nile during the times of its inundation carried down the mud from Ethiopia, land was gradually built up from the deposit. Also the statement that all the land of the Egyptians is alluvial silt deposited by the river receives the clearest proof, in their opinion, from what takes place at the outlets of the Nile; for as each year new mud is continually gathered together at the mouths of the river, the sea is observed being thrust back by the deposited silt and the land receiving the increase. And the larger part of the customs of the Egyptians are, they hold, Ethiopian, the colonists still preserving their ancient manners. For instance, the belief that their kings are gods, the very special attention which they pay to their burials, and many other matters of a similar nature are Ethiopian practices, while the shapes of their statues and the forms of their letters are Ethiopian; for of the two kinds of writing which the Egyptians have, that which is known as "popular" (demotic) is learned by everyone, while that which is called "sacred" is understood only by the priests of the Egyptians, who learn it from their fathers as one of the things which are not divulged, but among the Ethiopians everyone uses these forms of letters. Furthermore, the orders of the priests, they maintain, have much the same position among both peoples; for all are clean who are engaged in the service of the gods, keeping themselves shaven, like the Ethiopian priests, and having the same dress and form of staff, which is shaped like a plough and is carried by their kings, who wear high felt hats which end in a knob at the top and are circled by the serpents which they call asps; and this symbol appears to carry the thought that it will be the lot of those who shall dare to attack the king to encounter death-carrying stings. Many other things are also told by them concerning their own antiquity and the colony which they sent out that became the Egyptians, but about this there is no special need of our writing anything."
Actually not only have I read the entire study that you are referencing, but unlike you, I actually understand it.
Clearly you have no idea of what the following means....
the present study on the Y-chromosome haplotype shows that there are northern and southern Y-haplotypes in Egypt.
The main Y-haplotype V is a northern haplotype, with a significantly different frequency in the north compared to the south of the country: frequencies of haplotype V are 51.9% in the Delta (location A), 24.2% in Upper Egypt (location B), and 17.4% in Lower Nubia (location C).
On the other hand, haplotype IV is a typical southern haplotype, being almost absent in A (1.2%), and preponderant in B (27.3%) and C (39.1%).
Haplotype XI also shows a preponderance in the south (in C, 30.4%; B, 28.8%) compared to the north (11.7% in A) of the country.
^ Every haplotype mentioned above is African, and is rooted in either East African E3b, or West African E3a.
Haplotype XI and V are E3b1a and E3b1b.
This haplotype originates in East Africa, which futher relates Harris and Weeks observation on skeletal affinity:
The people who bear the greatest resemblence to the ancient Egyptians, at present, are the Nubians; and next are the Abyssinians - Harris and Weeks.
And also explains the German Archeological institutes findings that Ancient Egyptians were Melanoderm:
"Materials and methods In 1997, the German Institute for Archaeology headed an excavation of the tombs of the nobles in Thebes-West, Upper Egypt. At this time, three types of tissues were sampled from different mummies: meniscus (fibrocartilage), skin, and placenta. Archaeological findings suggest that the mummies dated from the New Kingdom (approximately 1550_/1080 BC).
The basal epithelial cells were packed with melanin as expected for specimens of Negroid origin."
^ The real question is, why you imagine any of this helps you? Unless you simply don't understand what you are citing?
quote:Glider writes: THE PERMANENT TROLL
Yes, I'm sure it must enrage you when I point out the really silly mistakes you are making.
And the angrier you get, the more mistakes you make.
The polygenic aspects of Coon's theory were racist and widely recognized to be wrong (Dobzhansky 1963, 1968; Hulse 1963; Montagu 1963; Oschinsky 1963; Washburn 1963 [based on the presidential address at the AAA]).
^ Racist and widely recognized to be wrong... much like you, no?
Man this just bothers me. I give you unrefuted facts that you can look up an read for yourself, and what do you post. You post stuff from a known racist. Coon. I ask you Glider why are you so against the truth. What do you have to gain from believeing in lies. *All* the info me and Rasol gave you can easily be verified. You have the sources. Really I don't understand why you are so against the Idea that Ancient Egyptians were related to other Africans. Why do you hate Africans? Glider I still believe that you have a lot to contribute to this forum, but you first got to get pass your racist bias. Let the *TRUTH* set you free.
You seem to think that by accepting Ancient Egypt as African, that this would make any link to Ancient Egypt as a Modern Egyptian null. This does not take away the heritage of Egyptians. It only confirms that Egypt is truly African. This is what you should want to hear. There is just to much linking Egypt to Africa for you to get angry and deny. How much Facts must be posted until you come to terms with the truth. Free your mind Glider.
Posts: 9651 | From: Reace and Love City. | Registered: Oct 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
Now I ask that you be objective and actually take the time to understand what is being said.
The period when sub-Saharan Africa was most influential in Egypt was a time when neither Egypt, as we understand it culturally, nor the Sahara, as we understand it geographically, existed. Populations and cultures now found south of the desert roamed far to the north. The culture of Upper Egypt, which became dynastic Egyptian civilization, could fairly be called a Sudanese transplant. . Egypt rapidly found a method of disciplining the river, the land, and the people to transform the country into a titanic garden. Egypt rapidly developed detailed cultural forms that dwarfed its forebears in urbanity and elaboration. Thus, when new details arrived, they were rapidly adapted to the vast cultural superstructure already present. On the other hand, pharaonic culture was so bound to its place near the Nile that its huge, interlocked religious, administrative, and formal structures could not be readily transferred to relatively mobile cultures of the desert, savanna, and forest. The influence of the mature pharaonic civilizations of Egypt and Kush was almost confined to their sophisticated trade goods and some significant elements of technology. Nevertheless, the religious substratum of Egypt and Kush was so similar to that of many cultures in southern Sudan today that it remains possible that fundamental elements derived from the two high cultures to the north live on. Encyclopedia of Precolonial Africa, by Joseph O. Vogel, AltaMira Press, Walnut Creek, California (1997), pp. 465-472
Ancient Egypt Anatomy of a Civilisation(Paperback) by Barry Kemp (Author) Publisher: Routledge; 2 edition (December 12, 2005) p.54
"Moving to the opposite geographic extremity, the very small sample populations available from northern Egypt from before the 1st Dynasty(Merimda, Maadi and Wadi Digla) turn out to be significantly different from sample populations from early Palestine and Byblos, suggesting a lack of common ancestors over a long time. If there was a south-north cline of variation along the Nile Valley it did not, from this limited evidence, continue smoothly on into Palestine. The limb-length proportions of males from the Egyptian sites group them with Africans rather than with Europeans"
Then a king will come from the South, Ameny, the just)fied, by name Son of a women of Ta-seti, child of Upper Egypt. He will take the white crown, He will wear the red crown; He will join the Two Mighty Ones, He will please the Two Lords with what they wish, With field-circler in his fist, oar in his grasp. Rejoice, O people of his time, The son of man will make his name for all eternity The Prophecies of Neferti http://ib205.tripod.com/prophecy_neferti.html
Note the claim to Ta-Seti in this Ancient Egyptian Prophecy.
Egypt's Dynastic rulership may have originated in Ta-Seti, thus signaling the first such form of government known to mankind. The idea of a pharaoh (king) may have come down the Nile from Nubia to Egypt (and) that would make Nubian civilization the ancestor of Egypt's... Dr. Bruce Williams, Archaeologist
You see how much links there is to other Africans. Glider, What do you find so Offensive about these connections that you will keep saying that Ancient Egyptians were not Black Africans. I really don't understand how much facts can we show you until you admit you were mistaking on Ancient Egypt.
Posts: 9651 | From: Reace and Love City. | Registered: Oct 2005
| IP: Logged |
This may shock you, but I respect you. the only reason I am posting all these facts, is I want you to see why Egyptians should have unity with there African brothers and sisters. Working together is the only way all people are going to be able to free themselves from mental slavery. You keep attacking the truth about the Origin of Egypt, you don't seem to see you are playing into the hands of the eurocentrics, whos goals are divide and conquer. We have to all stand united for a better tomorrow. You got to ask yourself who stands to gain from all this division between all of us as people. All races need to stand united towards a common goal of revealing truth. We have all been lied to. We all need to be free. I ask that you give the truth a chance, there is nothing bad about having black heritage. As a truthseeker, I want to see you become a truthseeker also. Stop fighting against what you know deep down to be right.
Peace
Posts: 9651 | From: Reace and Love City. | Registered: Oct 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
^This is where I think you're wrong. Glider is not playing into the hands of eurocentrics, he is a eurocentric. He is perfectly concious of what he is doing.
What you need to ask him is WHY is he a eurocentric. Open up pandora's box then we can see what this is really all about.Posts: 3423 | From: the jungle - when y'all stop playing games, call me. | Registered: Jul 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
Glider I'd still like to hear what you have to say, why do all the Greek writers describe Egyptions as black with wooly hair and why are Ethiopians (Nubians) described as so black as to be burnt
And yes Herodotus saw the Egyptions face to face
Posts: 2642 | Registered: Sep 2007
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by markellion: Glider I'd still like to hear what you have to say, why do all the Greek writers describe Egyptions as black with wooly hair and why are Ethiopians (Nubians) described as so black as to be burnt
And yes Herodotus saw the Egyptions face to face
People should stop relying on heresays from KNOWN LIARS and SUBJECTIVE WITNESSES, that are DEAD. It is not like the Ancient Egyptians did not leave us TONS OF STATUES and DRAWINGS of themselves and their neighbors. We already know that for the most part they WERE NOT BLACK AFRICANS. They went out of their way to show what BLACK AFRICANS looked like. [b]So, who are we to impose WHITE RACIST AMERICAN RACIAL RULES ON THEM? Unless, the our main aim to TAKE CREDIT FOR THEIR GREAT LEGACY AND HISTORY, without justification.
Most people would respect African Americans and West Africans more if they start taking pride in their own culture and Black African Legacy. They purposely ignore West African Culture, because it has no written records and mostly oral traditions, but that should not be a point of shame.
Posts: 315 | From: Deep Earth | Registered: Feb 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
We Can't Go Home Again: An Argument About Afrocentrism
Publisher Comments:
Afrocentrism has been a controversial but popular movement in schools and universities across America, as well as in black communities. But in We Can't Go Home Again, historian Clarence E. Walker puts Afrocentrism to the acid test, in a thoughtful, passionate, and often blisteringly funny analysis that melts away the pretensions of this "therapeutic mythology." As expounded by Molefi Kete Asante, Yosef Ben-Jochannan, and others, Afrocentrism encourages black Americans to discard their recent history, with its inescapable white presence, and to embrace instead an empowering vision of their African (specifically Egyptian) ancestors as the source of western civilization. Walker marshals a phalanx of serious scholarship to rout these ideas. He shows, for instance, that ancient Egyptian society was not black but a melange of ethnic groups, and questions whether, in any case, the phaoronic regime offers a model for blacks today, asking "if everybody was a King, who built the pyramids?" But for Walker, Afrocentrism is more than simply bad history — it substitutes a feel-good myth of the past for an attempt to grapple with the problems that still confront blacks in a racist society. The modern American black identity is the product of centuries of real history, as Africans and their descendants created new, hybrid cultures — mixing many African ethnic influences with native and European elements. Afrocentrism replaces this complex history with a dubious claim to distant glory.
"Afrocentrism offers not an empowering understanding of black Americans' past," Walker concludes, "but a pastiche of 'alien traditions' held together by simplistic fantasies." More to the point, this specious history denies to black Americans the dignity, and power, that springs from an honest understanding of their real history.
Review:
"Boldly conceived and well-executed...Walker basically questions Afrocentrism as a form of historical consciousness." Library Journal
Review:
"This is the book to read if you want to understand where Afrocentrism comes from, and why there is practically nothing African about it." Mary Lefkowitz, Andrew W. Mellon Professor in the Humanities at Wellesley College, author of Not Out of Africa and co-editor of Black Athena Revisited
Review:
"A vital contribution to the contemporary debate over Afrocentrism in particular and identity politics in general." Richard Slotkin, author of Gunfighter Nation back to top
About the Author
Clarence E. Walker is Professor of History at the University of California, Davis. He is the author of Deromanticizing Black History and A Rock in a Weary Land. He lives in Davis, California.
P.S. KING, hate to tell you this, but you have been BAMBOOZLED/BUFALLOED by BLACK AFROCENTRICS. You should try being a little more objective in your thought process. Victims of Racism are Victims, but are not entitled to STEAL OTHER PEOPLE'S HISTORY AND LEGACYPosts: 315 | From: Deep Earth | Registered: Feb 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
I think he is a black or mulatoo confused Eurocentric. Maybe an EDUCATED yonis!!
I don't think he is racist. At least not overtly ignorant school boy type.
quote:Originally posted by Young H*O*R*U*S: ^This is where I think you're wrong. Glider is not playing into the hands of eurocentrics, he is a eurocentric. He is perfectly concious of what he is doing.
What you need to ask him is WHY is he a eurocentric. Open up pandora's box then we can see what this is really all about.
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
See!!! He is moving away from the daaark side. From not black African to mostly NOT Black African. Give the brother some time. . . . . . and education.
quote:Originally posted by Glider:
quote:Originally posted by markellion: Glider I'd still like to hear what you have to say, why do all the Greek writers describe Egyptions as black with wooly hair and why are Ethiopians (Nubians) described as so black as to be burnt
And yes Herodotus saw the Egyptions face to face
People should stop relying on heresays from KNOWN LIARS and SUBJECTIVE WITNESSES, that are DEAD. It is not like the Ancient Egyptians did not leave us TONS OF STATUES and DRAWINGS of themselves and their neighbors. We already know that for the most part they WERE NOT BLACK AFRICANS. They went out of their way to show what BLACK AFRICANS looked like. [b]So, who are we to impose WHITE RACIST AMERICAN RACIAL RULES ON THEM? Unless, the our main aim to TAKE CREDIT FOR THEIR GREAT LEGACY AND HISTORY, without justification.
Most people would respect African Americans and West Africans more if they start taking pride in their own culture and Black African Legacy. They purposely ignore West African Culture, because it has no written records and mostly oral traditions, but that should not be a point of shame.
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
| IP: Logged |
^ He tries to prove that Punt is Lebanon because he is angry that the AE homeland is in inner Africa and *NOT* Asia where *his* foreign non Egyptian ancestors come from. Posts: 15202 | Registered: Jun 2004
| IP: Logged |
quote:They purposely ignore West African Culture, because it has no written records and mostly oral traditions, but that should not be a point of shame. [/QB]
In Africa (a quarter of the world)
Mens skin are black,their hair is crisp and curled
quote:Glider: People should stop relying on heresays
^ That's all you ever post Glider.
You certainly don't want to deal with what the AE had to say:
Kem, kame, kmi, kmem, kmom = to be black
Kememu = Black people (Ancient Egyptians) in both Ancient and modern Egyptian (Kmemou).
Kem [khet][wood] = extremely black, jet-black
Kemet = any black thing. Note: "t" is silent - pronounced Kemé
Kemet [nu][community, settlement, nation] = Black nation = Ancient Egypt.
Kemet [Romé][people] = Black people. Ancient Egyptians.
Kemit [Shoit][books] = Black books, Ancient Egyptian literature.
Kem wer [miri][large body of water] = The Great Black sea (The Red sea). This sea is neither black nor red, this is in reference to which nation, Black or Red, at a particular time, controlled this body of water.
quote:Originally posted by Glider: Fact, Fiction, and Feel-good History (Evaluating Afrocentrism)
‘The Women’s Quarterly’
Issue: Wntr, 2001
Professor Mary Lefkowitz talks with Charlotte Hays
WAS SOCRATES BLACK? Was Cleopatra an Egyptian nationalist? Was wandering-poet Homer educated in Egypt? Afro-centrists say yes. Wellesley professor Mary Lefkowitz, author of Not Out of Africa, says this is myth. TWQ editor Charlotte Hays recently spoke with Professor Lefkowitz about the perils of treating myth as history.
TWQ: Who started the trend of interpreting ancient history and literature from an Afro-centric perspective and why did it start?
LEFKOWITZ: I'm not sure that it can be traced to any one individual, but it goes back to the nineteenth century when people of African descent yearned for African roots. They had been brought here as slaves cut off from their roots. Those who came from the same part of Africa were kept apart and couldn't communicate with one another. There was a longing for a generalized African culture, which, of course, never existed any more than a generalized European culture or European language. Egypt became the focus of this because Egypt was the oldest civilization and had a marvelous, monumental legacy.
TWQ: Could you tell me about this as a movement in modern academia, where dubious books such as Martin Bernal's Black Athena are assigned reading?
LEFKOWITZ: The modern movement in academia takes up from these old ideas and develops them further but in a couple of directions. One is that a conspiracy theory has been added: The truth has been kept from people of African descent by whites and Europeans who were jealous of it, essentially, and wanted the history of civilization to be theirs and theirs alone. And this fits in very nicely with the kind of paranoid politics that are so popular in this country. A book that was very influential for many people is a book called Stolen Legacy, which was written by a man who died before he finished the manuscript named George G. M. James. The book was completed by Yosef A. ben-Jochannan, a pupil of James' at a small college in Arkansas. It wasn't really in universities until relatively recently. But, it has been out there since the middle of this past twentieth century. And many, many people read it, and it seemed to fit their idea of the way they had been treated by American society. And so a lot of people who co me into university teaching had read the book, had grown up on it, and some of them realized that it was based on false assumptions. Others didn't want to believe that.
TWQ: What about the idea that Europeans "stole" the African legacy? Can you steal another culture?
LEFKOWITZ: You can't steal a culture in the way you can steal a piano or a car. This is one of the most basically wrong assumptions in the book. If I steal your car, you don't have it, but if I steal your culture, you still have your culture. The perfect example of that is Greece and Rome. The Romans adopted Greek culture. They thought it was better than their culture, and they simply adopted it and did their own thing with it. But, meanwhile, the Greeks still had their culture.
TWQ: Does Stolen Legacy imply that somehow this alleged appropriation impoverished African culture?
LEFKOWITZ: Yes. I think it's implied that the Greeks took it and ran with it and that African culture as a result never got the credit it deserved. There's another false assumption operating with the notion of the stolen legacy; and that is the whole picture of Egypt, which comes not from scientific Egyptology, which dates from about the 1830s, but from mystical Egyptology; which was widely popular before then. This concept is based on a misunderstanding of Egypt that was developed in the eighteenth century. There is a notion of Egyptian mysteries, which are basically Greco-Roman in nature. This is based on Freemasonry, as I say in my book, and Freemasonry is essentially a European notion of Egypt. That's the notion of Egypt that's in Stolen Legacy. The great irony is that in saying this is African culture, they're really presenting European culture.
TWQ: What is Egyptian mystery religion?
LEFKOWITZ: Egyptian mystery religion is basically Greco-Roman mysteries, a series of initiation rites. A mystery means initiation.
So, it's an initiation where you go through a series of tasks or a series of revelations in order to become a member of an elite group. And that's something that the Greeks and Romans did. The example that people know best is the Eleusinian Mysteries.
TWQ: The ancient Greek historian Herodotus seemed to think that the Greeks had borrowed some religious practices from the Egyptians. Did the father of history get it wrong?
LEFKOWITZ: Well, he got it wrong to a great degree. And this is not just my saying so. Egyptologists say so as well. He got a great deal right, but he also got a great deal wrong. The reason he got it wrong was that, when he traveled in Egypt, he was relying on people who knew Greek to tell him things and he made assumptions that simply weren't there. For example, he says that the names of all the Greek gods come from Egypt. And a famous Egyptologist, Jan Assmann, who is German, has just written a book saying they must have been telling him the names of the Egyptian gods in Greek.
And, therefore, he thought they were the same because they were interpreting it for him. There had been Greeks living in Egypt and a number of Egyptians knew Greek and that's probably how it all came about. But the father of history did a remarkably good job considering that nothing like this had been done before. What he didn't see--what he heard from others--is more suspicious.
TWQ: Author John Hendrick Clarke, whom you quote in the book, wrote in his book, Black Women in Antiquity, that Cleopatra was "a shrewd politician and Egyptian nationalist. She committed suicide when she lost control of Egypt. "Is that an accurate portrayal of Cleopatra?
LEFKOWITZ: She wasn't a nationalist in the sense that I think one would mean today. And she wasn't an Egyptian. She came from a line of Macedonian Greek rulers, and there's a remote possibility, which I discuss in my book, that her paternal grandmother may have been something other than a Greek. I don't think it's very likely. But basically Cleopatra's first language was Greek and her culture was Greek, though she was the first of her line to learn Egyptian. She wanted to keep her empire. She was the richest and most powerful ruler in the world, but she needed the Roman army to protect her. She bet on the wrong horse, Mark Antony, whose forces were defeated at Actium. She committed suicide because she did not wish to be led through the streets of Rome in the celebration of Octavian's triumph over Egypt.
TWQ: What about facts? Don't facts intrude on these Afro-centric interpretations?
LEFKOWITZ: Well, yes. The facts intrude a great deal on these interpretations, and this is what I've tried to show. In my estimation, the whole discussion of history should be about facts and how facts are used as evidence. I've been accused of racism simply because I've mentioned facts and evidence. The race card is a smoke screen--a way of keeping one away from the truth. The sophisticated version of myth taught as history is to use postmodern theory and to claim that all knowledge is only the opinion of a particular group. I don't believe that, because I think there is such a thing as truth.
TWQ: What is wrong with teaching history that may be factually wrong but makes people feel better about themselves and their heritage?
LEFKOWITZ: A number of my colleagues have made this argument. I can't tell you the number of non-African-American academics who have been angry at me for pointing our that Afro-centrism is fiction. It shouldn't be taught as history just because it gives people a feeling that they have a wonderful heritage. There are many important things about Africa that people don't know and should know.
There is reason to think of Egypt as an African civilization and to look at that as one of the many important things that have been done in Africa. But that can be accomplished by sticking to historical facts. However, if you teach people myth instead of history, eventually they're going to find out that this is not exactly what happened. It also exposes those people to ridicule. If I come in and say, well, George Washington chopped down the cherry tree and I firmly believe this, people will think I'm really quite foolish.
TWQ: Are there any other dangers to teaching myth as history?
LEFKOWITZ: I think there are a lot of dangers. There are some very disturbing similarities between this sort of teaching of blood history, what I'd call tribal history, and the Third Reich. It's a kind of history in which your group is felt to be predominant and, most important, the reason it's dominant is not virtue but race. They said in the Third Reich that the Germans were the master race and the will of the Volk was really the most important thing. It was on that basis that the Holocaust happened.
TWQ: What's been the response on campus to your book? Have you been able to have good debates with Afro-centrists?
LEFKOWITZ: No, I haven't had any debates with my colleagues that have been productive at all. The few debates that have taken place have not been about the issues--not about the evidence, but simply about racial pride and prejudice in this country. I have no objection at all to talking about racism and the problems of racism. Goodness knows, I certainly hate racism, but racism has nothing to do with this. And, as I say, invoking racism is throwing up a smoke screen--talking about how my work is racist because it doesn't praise black people.
TWQ: Is all of this impinging upon academic freedom?
LEFKOWITZ: I don't think it has impinged on mine though a certain amount of pressure was brought on me by one of our former deans. But should we not talk about this because it upsets black students? Well, unfortunately, the truth does upset people from time to time. The truth about colonialism is upsetting to many people of European descent. But that certainly shouldn't stop us from talking about it. Now, academic freedom should also protect those who teach extreme Afro-centric stuff. And I defend that because I think that if you take away one person's academic freedom, you're going to take away the next person's also.
TWQ: Some Afro-centrists teach things that demonstrably aren't true. What's the difference between academic freedom and freedom of speech?
LEFKOWITZ: It's a very difficult thing to really get a handle on. But, if the university is supposed to be a place where you are advancing knowledge, you don't advance knowledge by teaching that there was no Holocaust. You're teaching your students to ignore evidence and to distort facts. I feel similarly about the notion of a stolen legacy, that it isn't doing the students who study this any good. And, therefore, while one is free to say in open society any kind of nonsense one wants, when one says it in the university, one is doing an awful lot of damage and that ought to be recognized.
What do you do about it? That's the hard question. Do you have a board of people who decide whether a thing is good or bad? I think that that's a possibility, but it's very difficult because the board could be stacked one way or the other. And you get into all sorts of litigation problems, so it may be really better just to let it work out in the normal course of discussion because the truth usually emerges in an open society. And I think it really has in this case over a period of time. People like Leonard Jeffries [who taught Afro-centric theories of antiquity at New York University] and Molefi Kete Asante [author of Kemet, Afrocentricity, and Knowledge] are discredited by most of the public, though they still have some admirers and hangers-on.
But the academic freedom that protects them is the same academic freedom that protects me.
COPYRIGHT 2001 Independent Women's Forum
COPYRIGHT 2001 Gale Group
Glider, this further proves that your arguments (or lack thereof) consists of only limited distraction which doesn't address the question. Ironically, cutting around the beef about Socrates and Cleo, Mary Lefkowitz had this to say:
quote:On the Origins of the Egyptians Recent work on skeletons and DNA suggests that the people who settled in the Nile valley, like all of humankind, came from somewhere south of the Sahara; they were not (as some nineteenth-century scholars had supposed) invaders from the North. See Bruce G. Trigger, "The Rise of Civilization in Egypt," Cambridge History of Africa (Cambridge, Cambridge University Press, 1982), vol I, pp 489-90; S. O. Y. Keita, "Studies and Comments on Ancient Egyptian Biological Relationships," History in Africa 20 (1993) 129-54.
In other words, you lose once more. Such a pathetic kid this guy is, but at least he tries.
Posts: 4021 | From: Bay Area, CA | Registered: Mar 2007
| IP: Logged |
^ He tries to prove that Punt is Lebanon because he is angry that the AE homeland is in inner Africa and *NOT* Asia where *his* foreign non Egyptian ancestors come from.
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
Glider wrote: ---------------- But the data from anthropology and genetics reveals the Caucasoid make-up of Egyptians, both ancient and modern, and places Nubia, which acquired a partly Negroid character, in the Afro-Asiatic cultural complex, separate from sub-Saharan and West African groups. ----------------
Just for the morons who didn't noticed.
Notice how the so called "Nubians" are now insinuated as being caucasoid.
Posts: 3085 | Registered: Jan 2008
| IP: Logged |
posted
Apparently this Glider sits around on his ass being pissed off about Africans and its diaspora acknowledging a part of their culture that is North Africa and Ancient Egypt.
Are you a homosexual Glider? Because that is a very odd thing indeed to be so consumed with another group of people that you have nothing to do with.
Glider, rumor has it that each time you go to bed at night, there are at least 3 different dicks in the bed with you.
The funny thing is that not one of them is yours. : )
UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
![[Cool]](cool.gif)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
Printer-friendly view of this topic