posted
Has anyone else noticed the not-so-subtle shift in timeframe for the Hellenic invasion/migration into Greece on Wikipedia? Not that long ago, when "Wiki" began, the accepted time for their arrival was 1,200 B.C. Then I noticed articles putting the date at 2,000 B.C. Now, I see articles placing the date at 3,000 B.C.
This is reminiscent of the slight-of-hand with Neanderthal and Cro-Magnon: First they were Humanoids, but not quite Human, stuck in somewhere between Homo-erectus and Homo-sapien (modern man). Then a few years ago, they miraculously became Homo-sapiens, with Neanderthal achieving the designation of Homo-sapien. But this itself caused a problem: If Neanderthal is Homo-sapien (man-the-wise), then what is modern Man?? No problem, create a new designation: Lets make Modern man "Homo-sapien-sapien" (man-the-wise-wise), and make Cro-Magnon one of them too - right up there with the Blacks.
Of course, the whole point of all of this; is the "possibly true" belief that Neanderthal and Cro-Magnon are the evolutionary ancestors of "White" people. And so, they wish to establish a pre-Hellenic invasion/migration presence in Europe, vis-a-vis Neanderthal and Cro-Magnon, so as to claim continuity in Europe: Aaand of course, make the claim that all of those "very advanced" civilizations in southern Europe and the Aegean were "White". Which of course, is also the point of "pushing" the first Hellenes back as far as possible.
As this web of bogus claims is weaved, it naturally produces questions that the weavers cannot answer. As everyone has read, there are many articles now making the rounds, which claim that "Modern Europeans" share much DNA with the ancient Cro-Magnon inhabitants of Europe. As I myself has made the point: All Modern man "genetically" by ratio, have more in common with Chimpanzees than modern Europeans (who came from the Eurasian Plains) have in common with the Cro-Magnons of Europe, so where does that leave them? Try a new theory of course:
Science magazine - 20 April 2007: AMERICAN ASSOCIATION OF PHYSICAL ANTHROPOLOGISTS MEETING: European Skin Turned Pale Only Recently, Gene Suggests PHILADELPHIA, PENNSYLVANIA - At the American Association of Physical Anthropologists meeting, held here from 28 to 31 March, a new report on the evolution of a gene for skin color suggested that Europeans acquired pale skin quite recently, perhaps only 6000 to 12,000 years ago.
Of course all of these "theories" are neither here-nor-there, they do no real damage: except perhaps to the psyche of "White" people. But, the falsifications by Wikipedia and others, do indeed do damage.
A case in point is the article in Wikipedia titled - White people (the History of the term) - I quote: The definition of white people has varied in different time periods and locations. Ancient Greece and Rome used the term white as one description of skin color. Its light appearance was distinguished, for example, in a comparison of white-skinned Persian soldiers from the sun-tanned skin of Greek troops in Xenophon's Agesilaus. end quote.
In fact, the writer in Xenophon's Agesilaus, is actually speaking about the "White, Flabby" Greeks of Phrygia, which the Persians had under their hegemony at that time, NOT PERSIANS, who as anyone with half a brain knows - were Black. But the question has to be asked, is this article just the work of one ignorant wantabe, or is this part of a continuing and wide ranging conspiracy to falsify racial history - I personally vote for the latter. As we have seen previously, the damage these falsifications can do to the minds of the simple and gullible is extreme.
For those who "Correctly" will not just take my word for it. Below are the excerpts from Xenophon's Agesilaus.
First definitions: Xenophon was a soldier, mercenary and a contemporary and admirer of Socrates.
Tissaphernes was a Persian soldier. In 413 B.C. he was satrap of Lydia and Caria, and commander in chief of the Persian army in Anatolia (modern Turkey).
Phrygia was a kingdom in the west central part of Anatolia. The Phrygian people (Phruges or Phryges) in earliest history lived in Macedonia (Greece) under the name of Bruges, which later evolved to Phruges, before that country's adoption of Greek as a national language. (note: As with all White people: These people were NOT indigenous to Anatolia)
Here is the Excerpt:
[15] Now Tissaphernes reflected that Agesilaus was without cavalry, while Caria was a difficult country for mounted men, and he thought that Agesilaus was wroth with him on account of his deceit. Concluding, therefore, that his estate in Caria was the real object of the coming attack, he sent the whole of his infantry across to that district and took his cavalry round into the plain of the Maeander, confident that he could ride down the Greeks before they reached the country where cavalry could not operate. [16] But instead of marching on Caria, Agesilaus forthwith turned round and made for Phrygia. Picking up the various forces that met him on the route, he proceeded to reduce the cities and captured a vast quantity of booty by sudden attacks.
[17] This achievement also was thought to be a proof of sound generalship, that when war was declared and cozening in consequence became righteous and fair dealing, he showed Tissaphernes to be a child at deception. It was thought, too, that he made shrewd use of this occasion to enrich his friends. [18] For the accumulation of plunder was so great that things were selling for next to nothing. So he gave his friends the word to buy, saying that he was shortly going down to the coast with his army.3 The auctioneers were ordered to have a schedule made of the prices obtained and to give delivery of the goods. Thus without capital outlay, and without any loss to the treasury, all his friends made a prodigious amount of money. [19] Further, whenever deserters offered to give information where plunder might be taken, they naturally went to the king. In such a case he took care that the capture should be effected by his friends, so that they might at one and the same time make money and add to their laurels. The immediate result was that he had many ardent suitors for his friendship.
[20] Recognizing that a country plundered and depopulated could not long support an army, whereas an inhabited and cultivated land would yield inexhaustible supplies, he took pains not only to crush his enemies by force, but also to win them over by gentleness. [21] He would often warn his men not to punish their prisoners as criminals, but to guard them as human beings; and often when shifting camp, if he noticed little children, the property of merchants, left behind -- many merchants offered children for sale because they thought they would not be able to carry and feed them4 -- he looked after them too, and had them conveyed to some place of refuge.
[22] Again, he arranged that prisoners of war who were too old to accompany the army were to be looked after, that they might not fall a prey to dogs or wolves. It thus came about that he won the goodwill not only of those who heard of these facts, but even of the prisoners themselves. In his settlement with the cities that he won over, he invariably excused them from all servile duties and required only such obedience as freemen owe to their rules; and by his clemency he made himself master of fortresses impregnable to assault.
[23] However, since a campaign in the plains was impossible even in Phrygia, owing to Pharnabazus' cavalry, he decided that he must raise a mounted force, if he was to avoid continually running away from the enemy. He therefore enrolled the wealthiest men in all the cities thereabouts as breeders of horses, and issued a proclamation that [24] anyone who supplied a horse and arms and an efficient man should be exempt from personal service. In this way he brought it about that every one of them carried out these requirements with the zeal of a man in quest of someone to die in his stead. He also specified cities that were to furnish contingents of cavalry, feeling sure that from the horsebreeding cities riders proud of their horsemanship would be forthcoming. This again was considered an admirable stroke on his part, that no sooner had he raised his cavalry than it became a powerful body ready for action.
[25] At the first sign of spring5 he collected the whole of his forces at Ephesus. With a view to their training he offered prizes for the cavalry squadron that rode best, and for the company of heavy infantry that reached the highest level of physical fitness. He also offered prizes to the targeteers and the archers who showed the greatest efficiency in their particular duties. Thereupon one might see every gymnasium crowded with the men exercising, the racecourse thronged with cavalrymen riding, and the javelin-men and archers shooting at the mark.
[26] Indeed he made the whole city in which he was quartered a sight to see. For the market was full of arms and horses of all sorts on sale, and the coppersmiths, carpenters, workers in iron, cobblers, and painters were all busy making weapons of war, so that you might have thought that the city was really a war factory. [27] And an inspiring sight it would have been to watch Agesilaus and all his soldiers behind him returning garlanded from the gymnasium and dedicating their garlands to Artemis. For where men reverence the gods, train themselves in warfare and practise obedience, there you surely find high hopes abounding. [28] Moreover, believing that contempt for the enemy would kindle the fighting spirit, he gave instructions to his heralds that the barbarians captured in the raids should be exposed for sale naked. So when his soldiers saw them white because they never stripped, and fat and lazy through constant riding in carriages, they believed that the war would be exactly like fighting with women.
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-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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posted
I don'think HE is saying that Neanderthals are humans. He is saying certian groups of Europeans (not all)have given the Neanderthals the Homo Sapiens designation.
In your own words "re-read the post".
quote:Originally posted by rasol:
quote:with Neanderthal achieving the designation of Homo-sapien.
^ Neanderthal is *not* regarded as homo-sapien.
Read and anthropology book.
RIP EgyptSearch.
Abandoned by intelligent posters.
Abandoned by its moderators.
It is now just another wasteland of ignorance.
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posted
In fact I know some "weird scienc"e type Euro-Americans who are adamant that Europeans are decended from the Neanderthals.
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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They're usually the type that peruse psuedo-scientific weblogs like Dienekes anthropology blog as well. They quote from there as well as believe in out-dated terms like caucasoid, while executing a double-standard in assuming caucasoid has infinite variability.
Psuedo-scientific and disingenuous in their research (and lazy) they rely on Dienekes blog, rediculously place the entire L clade in Eurasia (and exclusively non African), and of course, they don't have it in them to forget about E3b.
IMO they only harm themselves over all, they're not too bright, just wishful thinkers, adding more and more a myriad of white Clydes and 'Marc Washingtons' to their ranks, only making themselves - aside from appear more rediculous - incredibly more easy to debate.
A lot of this stems from the basic fact that when you stand against truth sooner or later you crumble.
A non-threat to me as long as we press the attack.
posted
Rasol you twit – you’re not related to the guy who wrote the Wikipedia article are you??
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. Neanderthal or Neandertal, was a species of the Homo genus (Homo neanderthalensis or Homo sapiens
The Columbia Encyclopedia, Sixth Edition. Neandertal, a subspecies of Homo sapiens, the species to which contemporary humans belong, known as H. sapiens neandertalensis after Neanderthal
Merriam-Webster online Hominid (Homo neanderthalensis syn H. sapiens neanderthalensis) known from skeletal remains in Europe, northern Africa, and western Asia that lived from about 30,000 to 200,000 years ago —called also Neanderthal man
Answers.com The Neanderthals are included by some within the species Homo sapiens
Encyclopædia Britannica - online frequent inclusion of the Neanderthals within the species Homo sapiens, usually as a distinct subspecies, H. sapiens neanderthalensis; more recently they have often been classified as a different but closely related species, H. neanderthalensis.
Thanks xyyman – Rasol and the others, really must learn to read more carefully.
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posted
argyle104 - Perhaps you should take it upon yourself to improve the quality of the board, by posting something new and intellectually challenging yourself. I am sure that we would all be very grateful for your stimulating input.
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posted
The problem is that such a statement is ignorant of the facts. The fact is that EgyptSearch is a board that goes AGAINST the grain of the predominant flow of popular archeology, science and anthropology, which pushes MOST of the nonsense seen on this board every day. So to begin with EgyptSearch and some of the so-called intelligent posters have been fighting AGAINST the tide of pseudo-scientific scholarship. To pretend that EgyptSearch alone has somehow CHANGED this pattern of bias, deception and pseudo science is ignorant, lazy and an expression of faux pride. Either one is committed to the truth and fighting against ignorance or one is just posing for vanity. Far more people have been fighting this battle for far longer and have never tired of telling the truth.
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posted
Oh Bro!!! Start another board, how many times have we heard this.
From what I understand there are a few reputeable ones already. I recently joined TNV. But couldn't post.
If that opens up then hopefully there will be moderation.
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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posted
I think that EgyptSearch has made it painfully obvious how much B.S. there is in the fields of archaeology and anthropology. But that doesn't mean that those who have been pushing the B.S. will stop any time soon. It does mean that more people may begin to challenge the "mainstream" view in face of a serious examination of the facts. It is an ongoing battle and only part of a much larger struggle for African identity and independence.
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That the Neanderthals were replaced by populations that had evolved biologically, and no doubt behaviorally, in the very different environments of southern Africa makes the rapid demise of the Neanderthals even more remarkable, and forces us to ask what cultural or cognitive developments may have made this replacement possible. The rapidly accumulating archaeological evidence for highly symbolic patterns of culture and technology within African populations dating back to at least 70,000 yr BP (marked by the appearance of complex bone technology, multiple-component missile heads, perforated sea-shell ornaments, complex abstract "artistic" designs and abundant use of red ochre --recently recorded from the Blombos Cave and other sites in southern Africa) may provide the critical clue to new patterns of cognition, and probably complex linguistic communication, linked directly with the biological evolution of anatomically and genetically modern populations(1,3). Perhaps it was the emergence of more complex language and other forms of symbolic communication that gave the crucial adaptive advantage to fully modern populations and led to their subsequent dispersal across Asia and Europe and the demise of the European Neanderthals. The precise mechanisms and timing of this dramatic population dispersal from southern Africa to the rest of the world remains to be investigated.Posts: 15202 | Registered: Jun 2004
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That the Neanderthals were replaced by populations that had evolved biologically, and no doubt behaviorally, in the very different environments of southern Africa makes the rapid demise of the Neanderthals even more remarkable, and forces us to ask what cultural or cognitive developments may have made this replacement possible. The rapidly accumulating archaeological evidence for highly symbolic patterns of culture and technology within African populations dating back to at least 70,000 yr BP (marked by the appearance of complex bone technology, multiple-component missile heads, perforated sea-shell ornaments, complex abstract "artistic" designs and abundant use of red ochre --recently recorded from the Blombos Cave and other sites in southern Africa) may provide the critical clue to new patterns of cognition, and probably complex linguistic communication, linked directly with the biological evolution of anatomically and genetically modern populations(1,3). Perhaps it was the emergence of more complex language and other forms of symbolic communication that gave the crucial adaptive advantage to fully modern populations and led to their subsequent dispersal across Asia and Europe and the demise of the European Neanderthals. The precise mechanisms and timing of this dramatic population dispersal from southern Africa to the rest of the world remains to be investigated.
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posted
Rasol I honestly think its just a few posters a la (marc washington, xyyman, jo nongowa etc) They are relatively new. But don't seem to learn from the information presented here. They are perpetually *stuck* in some sort of parallel universe of ignorance.
-------------------- Dont be evil - Google Posts: 426 | From: Cali-for-nia | Registered: Jan 2006
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Seems he enjoyed beating up on people. He got a few blows and now he is quiting????
As for you . . .get some balls or whatever girls have.
quote:Originally posted by Mmmkay: Rasol I honestly think its just a few posters a la (marc washington, xyyman, jo nongowa etc) They are relatively new. But don't seem to learn from the information presented here. They are perpetually *stuck* in some sort of parallel universe of ignorance.
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