posted
I have begun to realize that many of the artistic masterpieces of the Renaissance in Europe show the tremendous influence of Islamic culture on European fashion. Paintings of royalty show Arabic script in textile patterns, patterns of decoration and colors from various Islamic cultures, women wearing head covering and veils like Islamic women, women and men wearing the flowing capes and turbans and flamboyant hats, along with holy figures wearing colorful flowing silk robes found in Islamic culture. Keep in mind that many of these fashion influence are from older cultural traditions from Persia, Babylon, India and Africa melded into Islamic traditions.
If anyone takes a browse of the many examples of paintings from the Renaissance once will certainly see the strong imprint of Islamic cultures and the Moors on Medieval European fashion.
You can also see this in many plays from the Renaissance. A recent production of Shakespeare on PBS had MANY of the performers clothed in distinctly Islamic garb, especially head wraps and turbans.
But this is not simply a personal observation as many others have written on this as well:
posted
The Byzantine Empire was heavily influenced by Arabic style through their clothing.
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posted
Of course there was some "arabic" influence, meaning from nomadic Arabian fashion, but a lot of Islamic fashion was based on Persian, Babylonian, African and Asian fashion from prior to the advent of Islam. A lot of this Persian, Babylonian and Asian influence spread to the Byzantines because they occupied areas closest to Peria and Babylon. In fact both Christianity and Islam share both regions as the same source of many of their traditions in textiles. Some of the early Moorish fashion was linked to Africa and Egypt as much of Northern Africa is said to have acquired the custom of dressing like the Egyptians in the period leading up to the Arab invasion.
Unfortunately for us, the Muslims did not practice painting human portraits as later Renaissance artists did. Therefore, much of what we know about Medieval Muslim and Moorish fashion is known from what is filtered through later European Fashion and Renaissance art.
Brocade, Damask, Felt, Velvet, Silk, Taffeta and many other luxury fabrics were the key industries of Islamic lands and those luxury fabrics, along with the fabulous textiles of South, South East and East Asia were in high demand among the older cultures of the East long before the Muslims, via trade on the Silk Road. The colorful dress of the old Egyptian, Persian and Babylonian reliefs is testimony to the antiquity of such textile traditions, along with many pieces of Bhuddist art from all along the Silk road into East Asia. All of these ancient traditions of textiles swept into Europe with the Muslim conquests from Spain to Italy and Greece. Ushering in new found appreciation for such materials among European markets. More importantly, craftsmen introduced many Europeans to the art of producing such textiles, like leather, silk and other textiles, which would spark the development of the European textile industry, which eventually would eclipse the abilities of its eastern forbears, especially after the rise of industrialization in Europe.
Modern reenactment of a Medieval Spanish (Moorish) Market, the engine of transmission of textile traditions from East to West:
Al Jafaria Palace, example of the Muslim (Moorish) influence on Christian architecture. Most Stone Churches I have seen in the U.S. built in the last 200 years have strong Moorish style.
quote:Originally posted by Doug M: Of course there was some "arabic" influence, meaning from nomadic Arabian fashion, but a lot of Islamic fashion was based on Persian, Babylonian, African and Asian fashion from prior to the advent of Islam. A lot of this Persian, Babylonian and Asian influence spread to the Byzantines because they occupied areas closest to Peria and Babylon. In fact both Christianity and Islam share both regions as the same source of many of their traditions in textiles. Some of the early Moorish fashion was linked to Africa and Egypt as much of Northern Africa is said to have acquired the custom of dressing like the Egyptians in the period leading up to the Arab invasion.
Unfortunately for us, the Muslims did not practice painting human portraits as later Renaissance artists did. Therefore, much of what we know about Medieval Muslim and Moorish fashion is known from what is filtered through later European Fashion and Renaissance art.
Brocade, Damask, Felt, Velvet, Silk, Taffeta and many other luxury fabrics were the key industries of Islamic lands and those luxury fabrics, along with the fabulous textiles of South, South East and East Asia were in high demand among the older cultures of the East long before the Muslims, via trade on the Silk Road. The colorful dress of the old Egyptian, Persian and Babylonian reliefs is testimony to the antiquity of such textile traditions, along with many pieces of Bhuddist art from all along the Silk road into East Asia. All of these ancient traditions of textiles swept into Europe with the Muslim conquests from Spain to Italy and Greece. Ushering in new found appreciation for such materials among European markets. More importantly, craftsmen introduced many Europeans to the art of producing such textiles, like leather, silk and other textiles, which would spark the development of the European textile industry, which eventually would eclipse the abilities of its eastern forbears, especially after the rise of industrialization in Europe.
Modern reenactment of a Medieval Spanish (Moorish) Market, the engine of transmission of textile traditions from East to West:
Al Jafaria Palace, example of the Muslim (Moorish) influence on Christian architecture. Most Stone Churches I have seen in the U.S. built in the last 200 years have strong Moorish style.
Alot of the Pre-Renaissance architecture styles such as found throught Europe were influenced by Islamic Styles. Most Islamic styles were derived and influencd by Byzantine and Roman architecture though.
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posted
Even in the above pictures...The arches and the Dome on Pendentive were developed and perfected by Romans and Byzantine Architecture.
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quote:Originally posted by akoben08: "Most Islamic styles were derived and influencd by Byzantine and Roman architecture though."
Care to elaborate?
Well for one Romans literally PERFECTED the Dome, Arch, and Vault. By the time of the Rise of Constantinople the Dome was a mere science to the Romans.
Clear evidence is in the picture the starter of the thread poste of the Islamic Dome on Pendentive. http://download.sketchup.com/nonav/images/sud/20060815/pendentive.jpg <a href="http://s179.photobucket.com/albums/w286/jrpone/?action=view¤t=image.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w286/jrpone/image.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
Hadjia Sophia is a clear example of the Byzantines mastery of the Dome that would influence the
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Also alot of the Moorish columns and even certain capitals they used are influenced by Greco-Romans syles and Early christian styles.
But Like I said Islamic Architecture OBVIOUSLY created their own uniqe styles and CLEARLY influenced MANY Europeans and VERY FAMOUS European buildings have Moorish and Islamic designs.
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quote:Originally posted by akoben08: arches and vaults are roman? lol
I said they were "PERFECTED" by Romans. Just as the Pyramids were perfected by the Egyptians. The Tiumphial Arch, The Aquaducts, the dome on Pendentive, the Roman Bridge, The Coliseum, The Aphitheatre, The Groin Vault, The Flat Arch..ect.
The Romans were obsesses with the Arch.
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posted
You said most Islamic styles were derived and influenced by Byzantine and Roman architecture. The arch and dome is not Roman. Whether they "perfected" (typical Eurocentric language to make up for when they never invent a thing) is not the point, it is not theirs.
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posted
Also alot of the Moorish columns and even certain capitals they used are influenced by Greco-Romans syles and Early christian styles.
Again this is not entirely true. So-called Greek and Roman colomns were already found in Africa.
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quote:Originally posted by akoben08: You said most Islamic styles were derived and influenced by Byzantine and Roman architecture. The arch and dome is not Roman. Whether they "perfected" (typical Eurocentric language to make up for when they never invent a thing) is not the point, it is not theirs.
LOL..Eurocentric..LOL 1) The Romans perfected the Arch the way the Egyptians did the Pyramids. The Egyptians started off with the primitive but creative Step Pyramid and ended up with a Perfect Triangular Pyramid encased in white limestone and topped with Gold. Perfect example of Architectural Perfecion(unlike the Arab Destroyed pyramids of today.) The Arch was barly used before the Roman era. And the Dome too. 2)Sure there were columns that the Greeks used from Egyptians. As a matter of fact the Columns of the New Kingdom such as thiose found at Hetshepsuts' "Mortuary Temple" called "PROTO-DORIC" of course Euros deny the Greeks used it from the Kemmou. 3)TheIslamc Arhitecture is FULL of Roman and Byzantine Styles that were not used until This Era. The Decorative Arches, the Dome on Pendentive.which are found ON THE PICTURES the Creator posted are CLEARLY ROMAN AND BYZANTINE and EARLY CHRISTIAN styles. 4)I have a book on Moorish Architecture and I can see clear Greco-Roman influenced Capitals and others. Also when I see Pre-Romanesqe Architecture I RECOGNIZE...LITERALLY COPIED moorish and Islamic styles...I think even the Normans used Islamic styles..I think.
You act like Europeans were dumb and stupid and sopied everything from others and never did anything to influence. That is just not true.
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posted
Islamic architecture of course borrowed from cultures that came before it. But they also created new forms and styles that were UNLIKE others. As an example of the old and the new see below:
These fractal polylobed arches are sitting on columns similar to Roman and Greek columns. But this is often because they were Roman columns re used from older constructions. However, the main thrust of Moorish art with its polylobed arches is not like anything Roman.
These styles of arches passed into Western architecture because just as the Muslims build on Roman ruins, so too did the Spanish build on ruins of Moorish Mosques and buildings, incorporating Moorish arches into Christian architecture. This tradition eventually led to a full incorporation of these Moorish elements into Christian architecture, to the point where most Christian churches built in America in the 1800s have strong elements of Moorish architecture, including the square minarets.
Now this doesn't mean that everything in Moorish architecture was purely original, but that does not change the fact that the influence was profound just the same.
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posted
The initial step pyramid wasnt "primitive" only different, and actually i think Van sertima pointed out those later pyramids are actually stepped underneath.
But how can you "perfect" architecture style anyway? It's not like a car or a space rocket, it's for decorative purposes. Romans might have used it a lot doesn't make it "theirs" to influence anybody. This has nothing to do with whether they are stupid or not, just where the styles came from. The word "perfected" is clearly an attempt on your part to try and distinguish it from it's origins in order to justify your initial statement that they were derived and influenced by Byzantine and Roman architecture.
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quote:Originally posted by akoben08: The initial step pyramid wasnt "primitive" only different, and actually i think Van sertima pointed out those later pyramids are actually stepped underneath.
But how can you "perfect" architecture style anyway? It's not like a car or a space rocket, it's for decorative purposes. Romans might have used it a lot doesn't make it "theirs" to influence anybody. This has nothing to do with whether they are stupid or not, just where the styles came from. The word "perfected" is clearly an attempt on your part to try and distinguish it from it's origins in order to justify your initial statement that they were derived and influenced by Byzantine and Roman architecture.
Compared to how the Great Pyramids of Giza looked to the Step Pyramid, and the trial and error Pharoah Snefru went through to get from a Step Pyramid to a Pyramid encased with white limestone, smooth sides, Blindigly white in the Egyptian sun and TOPPED with Gold. How can than NOT be perfecting the pyramid.
Go read what the above poster said. the Islamic style was inspired influenced and in the case of the Dome on Pendentive and decorative arch(Which you can see in the pics provided by the creator)....DERIVED from Roman and Byzantine and Early Christian styles.
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quote:Originally posted by Doug M: Islamic architecture of course borrowed from cultures that came before it. But they also created new forms and styles that were UNLIKE others. As an example of the old and the new see below:
These fractal polylobed arches are sitting on columns similar to Roman and Greek columns. But this is often because they were Roman columns re used from older constructions. However, the main thrust of Moorish art with its polylobed arches is not like anything Roman.
These styles of arches passed into Western architecture because just as the Muslims build on Roman ruins, so too did the Spanish build on ruins of Moorish Mosques and buildings, incorporating Moorish arches into Christian architecture. This tradition eventually led to a full incorporation of these Moorish elements into Christian architecture, to the point where most Christian churches built in America in the 1800s have strong elements of Moorish architecture, including the square minarets.
Now this doesn't mean that everything in Moorish architecture was purely original, but that does not change the fact that the influence was profound just the same.
I agree 100 percent. the Islamic style was very unique it its own way. Many Islamic builders and planners Like the Moors tried to imulate a sort of Heaven on Earth making Gardens and landscaping a big part of their Architecture.
Like I said too, Islamic influence can be found THROUGHT Europe, not just Spain. Italy, france, Sicily, ect all have building with Islamic forms.
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quote:Originally posted by Jari-Ankhamun: Compared to how the Great Pyramids of Giza looked to the Step Pyramid, and the trial and error Pharoah Snefru went through to get from a Step Pyramid to a Pyramid encased with white limestone, smooth sides, Blindigly white in the Egyptian sun and TOPPED with Gold. How can than NOT be perfecting the pyramid.
Go read what the above poster said. the Islamic style was inspired influenced and in the case of the Dome on Pendentive and decorative arch(Which you can see in the pics provided by the creator)....DERIVED from Roman and Byzantine and Early Christian styles.
FYI Imhotep was architect of the step pyramid and he was no primitive, your initial words. They were different not "inferior" to one another. The argument you are advancing for so-called Greco-Roman architectural influence on Moors is the same argument that is used to imply that Moors revived so-called Greek philosophy and science. Which is bunk, they got it from Nile Valley. Argument done.
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quote:Originally posted by Jari-Ankhamun: Compared to how the Great Pyramids of Giza looked to the Step Pyramid, and the trial and error Pharoah Snefru went through to get from a Step Pyramid to a Pyramid encased with white limestone, smooth sides, Blindigly white in the Egyptian sun and TOPPED with Gold. How can than NOT be perfecting the pyramid.
Go read what the above poster said. the Islamic style was inspired influenced and in the case of the Dome on Pendentive and decorative arch(Which you can see in the pics provided by the creator)....DERIVED from Roman and Byzantine and Early Christian styles.
FYI Imhotep was architect of the step pyramid and he was no primitive, your initial words. They were different not "inferior" to one another. The argument you are advancing for so-called Greco-Roman architectural influence on Moors is the same argument that is used to imply that Moors revived so-called Greek philosophy and science. Which is bunk, they got it from Nile Valley. Argument done.
First off I never said Imhotep was inferior, IF NOT FOR IMHOTEP there would be no Pyramids.
2) Like I said compared to the Great Pyramid of Giza the Great Pyramid was obviously a great idea perfected.
3)I don't disagree with you about the Moorish Science and where the Greco-Roman influence came from.
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posted
Another example of Islamic African/Mediterranean influence on European art leather working:
quote: An Ancient Calling
Cordwainer's ArmsThe term "Cordwainer" is an Anglicization of the French word cordonnier, introduced into our language after the Norman invasion of England in 1066. The word itself is derived from the city of Cordoba, in the south of Spain, a stronghold of the mighty Omeyyad Kalifs until its fall in the 12th century. Moorish Cordoba was celebrated for two staple trades in the early Middle Ages, silver-smithing and the production of cordouan (cordovan) leather, called "cordwain" in England. Originally made from the skin of the Musoli goat, then found in Corsica, Sardinia, and elsewhere, this leather was "tawed" with alum after a method supposedly known only to the Moors. English Crusaders brought home much plunder and loot, including the finest leather the English shoemakers had ever seen. Gradually cordouan, or cordovan leather became the material most in demand for the finest footwear in all of Europe.
But Cordoban leather is still made in Spain using techniques passed down from the Moorish period:
quote: LEATHER WORKING TECHNIQUES
The techniques and tools used today are essentially the same as those used in the past, although, of course, they have in part been renewed as time has passed and the demand has modified the ornamental purpose, tastes and the coast of materials and labour.
First of all, it is essential to make a design on paper with which the artist gives form to the model to be made. Making this drawing is the most important and difficult part of the work to be done. Next , the design is traced onto onion-skin paper and this, in turn, is placed on the grain side of the leather which has been dampened with a sponge and water. The next step is the tracing, using a graver or tracer, while keeping the skin wet because of the property this has of registering all kinds of marks when wet, marks which remain when the skin dries.
Once the tracing has been done the real leather working can begin - on the wet leather and using the desired technique . We will now mention a few of these techniques briefly.
INCISION : This is achieved by using an incisor or knife to cut a shallow groove, which can be opened at will later.
MODELLING :
This is relief work which is achieved by pressing the leather on the grain side with a spatula and although the surface of the leather is not raised, planes of slightly different depths are produced.
EMBOSSING :
This is the most common and well-known leather-working technique. It comprises making relief-work which is higher than the thickness of the leather. This has to be worked not only on the grain side but also on the underside , embossing pressing upwards with the ball-embosser until the desired relief is obtained.
GOPHERING :
This is really form of design common to various techniques, used as a complement to the principal method of working, but not as a technique in itself. It is executed with iron punchers which have small geometrical designs engraved on one face, in relief or cut, which when hit from the other side leave a shallow mark enhacing certain smooth surfaces.
MOSAIC:
This is a form of decoration made with small fragments of skins , of different shapes, quality and colours, used to give the desired shape to the proposed design, usually by juxtaposition the classical method of Roman mosaic.
COLOURING :
As the skins are of light tones , they are usually coloured to make them more decorative, either in monochrome or in polichrome with several dyes which heighten their beauty. There are obtained from chemical substances such as iron sulphate,potash caustic soda picric acid , or walnut-stain anilines and the most up-to dates alcohol dyes specially for leather.Oil paints are also used.
METALIZATION :
The principal characteristic and beauty of the embossed leathers is the metalization of the surface, once it has been worked , with silver or gold leaf which adhere to the grain indelibly by a special mixture. This must be at a desiccative point called " biting " for which we have to wait a certain number or hours depending on the case. After that the burnishing is done and colours are applied with varnish, oil or wax on the metalized surface, to obtain the final gloss.
And this was tradition from Africa and the Eastern Mediterranean was passed into Europe. The influence is undeniable as one looks at the products made by those who practice the technique of Cordovan leather, which reflects the African influence.
Horween Leather Company of Chicago (the only maker of Cordovan leather in the U.S.):
quote: "We always felt there was a right way and a wrong way to make fine leather. It takes us six months to make a cordovan shell. Our cordovan could probably be made faster, and people might not even be able to tell the difference... but I can."
And much of this craft tradition and specialization goes all the way back to Egypt and beyond, as the walls of Egyptian tombs are full of craftsmen going about their daily work. It was also widespread in the rest of Africa and the Maghreb, which is where much of the leather came from as well as many of the various styles of leather work from skins with fur trim to fancy leathers dyed in various colors.
This legacy also extends to modern Urban wear, as many of the more popular Urban Leather jacket styles are indebted to the techniques of leather work passed down from Africa and the Mediterranean to Europe.
posted
Islamic influence on European fashion and art? Or is it Persian influence?
Artistically, the Sasanian period witnessed some of the highest achievements of Persian civilization. Much of what later became known as Muslim culture, including architecture and writing, was originally drawn from Persian culture. At its peak the Sasanian Empire stretched from Syria to northwest India, but its influence was felt far beyond these political boundaries. Sasanian motifs found their way beyond provinces in Central Asia to the north and China, the Byzantine Empire, and even Merovingian France. Islamic art however, was the true heir to Sasanian art, whose concepts it was to assimilate while, at the same time instilling fresh life and renewed vigor into it. According to Will Durant:
"Sasanian art exported its forms and motifs eastward into India, Turkestan, and China, westward into Syria, Asia Minor, Constantinople, the Balkans, Egypt, and Spain. Probably its influence helped to change the emphasis in Greek art from classic representation to Byzantine ornament, and in Latin Christian art from wooden ceilings to brick or stone vaults and domes and buttressed walls.”
Sasanian carvings at Taq-e Bostan and Naqsh-e Rostam were colored; so were many features of the palaces; but only traces of such painting remain. The literature, however, makes it clear that the art of painting flourished in Sasanian times; the prophet Mani is reported to have founded a school of painting; Ferdowsi speaks of Persian magnates adorning their mansions with pictures of Iranian heroes; and the poet al-Buhturi describes the murals in the palace at Ctesiphon. When a Sasanian king died, the best painter of the time was called upon to make a portrait of him for a collection kept in the royal treasury.
Painting, sculpture, pottery, and other forms of decoration shared their designs with Sasanian textile art. Silks, embroideries, brocades, damasks, tapestries, chair covers, canopies, tents, and rugs were woven with servile patience and masterly skill, and were dyed in warm tints of yellow, blue, and green. Every Persian but the peasant and the priest aspired to dress above his class; presents often took the form of sumptuous garments; and great colorful carpets had been an appanage of wealth in the East since Achaemenid days. The two dozen Sasanian textiles that escaped the teeth of time are the most highly valued fabrics in existence. Even in their own day, Sasanian textiles were admired and imitated from Egypt to the Far East; and during the Crusades these pagan products were favored for clothing the relics of Christian saints. When Heraclius captured the palace of Khosrow Parviz at Dastgird, delicate embroideries and an immense rug were among his most precious spoils. Famous was the "Winter Carpet", also known as "Khosrow's Spring" (Spring Season Carpet) of Khosrow Anushirvan, designed to make him forget winter in its spring and summer scenes: flowers and fruits made of in woven rubies and diamonds grew, in this carpet, beside walks of silver and brooks of pearls traced on a ground of gold. Harun al-Rashid prided himself on a spacious Sasanian rug thickly studded with jewelry. Persians wrote love poems about their rugs.
Studies on Sasanian remains show that over 100 types of crowns being worn by Sasanian kings. The various Sasanian crowns demonstrate the cultural, economic, social, and historical situation in each period. The crowns also show the character traits of each king in this era. Different symbols and signs on the crowns, the moon, stars, eagle, and palm, each illustrate the wearer's religious faith and beliefs.
The Sasanian Dynasty, like the Achaemenid, originated in the province of Persis (Fars). The Sasanians saw themselves as successors of the Achaemenids, after the Hellenistic and Parthian interlude, and believed that it was their destiny to restore the greatness of Persia.
In reviving the glories of the Achaemenid past, the Sasanians were no mere imitators. The art of this period reveals an astonishing virility, in certain respects anticipating key features of Islamic art. Sasanian art combined elements of traditional Persian art with Hellenistic elements and influences. The conquest of Persia by Alexander the Great had inaugurated the spread of Hellenistic art into Western Asia. Though the East accepted the outward form of this art, it never really assimilated its spirit. Already in the Parthian period, Hellenistic art was being interpreted freely by the peoples of the Near East. Throughout the Sasanian period there was reaction against it. Sasanian art revived forms and traditions native to Persia, and in the Islamic period, these reached the shores of the Mediterranean. According to Fergusson:
With the accession of the [Sasanians], Persia regained much of that power and stability to which she had been so long a stranger… The improvement in the fine arts at home indicates returning prosperity, and a degree of security unknown since the fall of the Achaemenidae.
Surviving palaces illustrate the splendor in which the Sasanian monarchs lived. Examples include palaces at Firuzabad and Bishapur in Fars and the capital city of Ctesiphon in Khvarvaran province, Iraq. In addition to local traditions, Parthian architecture influenced Sasanian architectural characteristics. All are characterized by the barrel-vaulted iwans introduced in the Parthian period. During the Sasanian period, these reached massive proportions, particularly at Ctesiphon. There, the arch of the great vaulted hall, attributed to the reign of Shapur I (241–272), has a span of more than 80 feet and reaches a height of 118 feet. This magnificent structure fascinated architects in the centuries that followed and has been considered one of the most important examples of Persian architecture. Many of the palaces contain an inner audience hall consisting, as at Firuzabad, of a chamber surmounted by a dome. The Persians solved the problem of constructing a circular dome on a square building by employing squinches, or arches built across each corner of the square, thereby converting it into an octagon on which it is simple to place the dome. The dome chamber in the palace of Firuzabad is the earliest surviving example of the use of the squinches, suggesting that this architectural technique was probably invented in Persia.
The unique characteristic of Sasanian architecture was its distinctive use of space. The Sasanian architect conceived his building in terms of masses and surfaces; hence the use of massive walls of brick decorated with molded or carved stucco. Stucco wall decorations appear at Bishapur, but better examples are preserved from Chal Tarkhan near Ray (late Sasanian or early Islamic in date), and from Ctesiphon and Kish in Mesopotamia. The panels show animal figures set in roundels, human busts, and geometric and floral motifs.
At Bishapur some of the floors were decorated with mosaics showing scenes of merrymaking as at a banquet. The Roman influence here is clear, and the mosaics may have been laid by Roman prisoners. Buildings were decorated with wall paintings.
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