posted
I am wondering something. In all great civilizations there seems to be quite a number of slaves, from Rome, to Egypt, to Arabia to China to India to America. Slavery seems to always be the backbone of a great society, it's a sad but true statement, all of the larger societies that bloomed efficiently and QUICKLY owned a large number of slaves. I came to that sudden realization when I saw a guy wearing this t-shirt...
I'm aware of the statement that "blacks" are the only ones that did not build "great societies" I read this somewhere but I cannot remember, word for word I am not sure either. But when I also look at the size and time line of most African civilizations it struck me that maybe Africans were the only ones who did not use a large amount of slave labor to form these civilizations. Not to say they were NEVER any slaves but the large amount that can build pyramids and coliseums, did other Africans ever exploit each other like this?
Even today when we look at the countries on top that are exploiting the smaller countries the ones with the more exploiting power with the walmarts and other giants of the world they feast on cheaper labor technically still slave labor many in Asia. When we look at the smaller developing country they are developing much slower like in the Caribbean they are doing it so much more honestly, and they hardly exploit another country.
I don't know I am just pondering and maybe rambling. Many great societies owe much to cheap and slave labor. Is not a matter of smarts it is a matter of conscience, and the people who are willing to shed that conscience and exploit others sometimes always end up on top. Slavery and cheap labor is the spring board that starts locomotion to domination that allows those who use it to excel past those who don't and QUICKLY I think.
Posts: 105 | From: Japan | Registered: Jan 2008
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posted
Capital builds great kingdoms...Gold, Slaves were considered as capital in the past...no capital no great civilization...no Europe...no Ancient Egypt...no America...no Ancient Greece...no Ancient Rome...no European expeditions in Americas...nothing without capital...
Posts: 461 | From: Kilimanjaro | Registered: Jan 2008
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posted
Briefly: The pyramids that were built in AE and Kush were not built using slave labour. Great Zimbabwe and Axum were also not built using slaves. And those big sky-scraper buildings put up in Africa(South Africa, Kenya, Dakar, etc.) during the colonial era? Was it just forced labour of a special kind?
But again I wonder who built the very solid captive-holding stone fortifications in West Africa--Gorée, El Mina, etc.-- that held the captives before they were loaded on those vessels bound for the Americas?
Posts: 5492 | Registered: Nov 2004
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posted
And Notre Dame Cathedral in Paris? Buckingham Palace in Britain? Those big Mayan and Inca pyramids in Central America? And the Great Wall of China? And that big mosque in Jenne, Mali? The Panama Canal? The Suez Canal? Slave labour?
Posts: 5492 | Registered: Nov 2004
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posted
Lamin there is no proof that says Egyptian pyramids weren't built with slave labor or even Kush, there are several theories that they could of all been volunteers but there are no cold hard facts on who and why they went out of their way to toil on building pyramids. The new evidence that suggested that many of the "normal" citizens lived impoverished and close to famine lifestyles in Egypt itself even supports it more that many of these pyramid builders who were these same "normal people" if paid for their work were extremely cheap labor or slave labor. See the title of my thread I never said they were all slaves, but the kind of cheap labor I am talking about is very close to slavery. It is the kind of labor people all around Asia still do to this day for large companies like Walmart. It's no secret the Mayans and Inca had slaves, we just don't know how they were all used.
I am not talking about monuments and a sky scraper here and there I am talking about massive civilizations that take a lot of man power and civilizations that were erected in ground breaking speed, so a sky scraper or a wall here and there has nothing to do with what I am talking about and do you have any evidence to suggest that all the places aforementioned did not use cheap and slave labor? The practicality of it seems feasible, if you do the math and think about the econ at the time and the thousands of people that would need to have been employed to erect those monuments, how do you think it was achieved?
Posts: 105 | From: Japan | Registered: Jan 2008
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posted
Habari, yes but capital is used to exchange for services or more capital. the more capital you have the higher service you can afford. Also in other words unless a person is exchange slave labor for something that will give a profit margin similar to what is described below in the long run the person selling the slaves will never make more off that slave than the person they are selling the slave to. That is unless they charge exorbitant amounts for slaves which means they probably wouldn't sell. Which is why the largest profit margin one could probably make off slaves is going about it capturing them yourselves instead of purchasing them at all. Most of the larger societies I talked about captured slaves or forced their people into slavery. It like running around outside tackling 100 dollar bills.
Say 100 gold(capital) means you can hire people to build a temple. But if you have capital and that capital WORKS for free for their entire lifetime expand that to over thousands of slaves and the revenue spent is thousands of times less than the results put out of course if a society uses this kind of technique the profit margin is staggering and the society itself flourishes being able to take in excessively more than they put out. It is like purchasing factory equipment that is capable of providing $4 million worth of work before it rusts out for $50, having the machine run on scraps of leftover pig intestines instead of top grade oil, letting them be able to reproduce and create more factory machines until they also rust.
Posts: 105 | From: Japan | Registered: Jan 2008
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quote: I'm aware of the statement that "blacks" are the only ones that did not build "great societies"
Well, it's a very unusual statement considering the fact that we are discussing places like ancient Egypt and Kush in the context of "great societies".
quote:Originally posted by HistoryFacelift: Lamin there is no proof that says Egyptian pyramids weren't built with slave labor
wth? Why are you asking somebody to prove a negative? That's illogical considering that you're the one claiming that slaves built the pyramids [which they did not], which means that you'd have to prove it. This is like me saying Aliens built the pyramids and asking you to prove that they didn't.
In any event, archaeologists generally contend that Egyptians did not use slaves to build the pyramids since the said workers weren't treated as slaves and were given proper burials near the construct.. Such is only reserved for naturalized citizens and esteemed workers.
Posts: 4021 | From: Bay Area, CA | Registered: Mar 2007
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quote: I'm aware of the statement that "blacks" are the only ones that did not build "great societies"
Well, it's a very unusual statement considering the fact that we are discussing places like ancient Egypt and Kush in the context of "great societies".
Unusual as it may be it is a statement out there but further in parts of my post I say most Africans I did not use term black because that is someone elses' own descriptions all together.
quote:wth? Why are you asking somebody to prove a negative? That's illogical considering that you're the one claiming that slaves built the pyramids [which they did not], which means that you'd have to prove it. This is like me saying Aliens built the pyramids and asking you to prove that they didn't.
What are you talking about? All of my sentences I say things like "I am wondering", "Is it feasible to think", "Is it possible" he come and say a definate "Egyptians not use slave labor" but since I do not know of this being definite for fact I think it is ok for me to keep pondering the correlation between large civilizations and slave/cheap labor. Did I ever ask him to prove or just tell him it's not proven?
Posts: 105 | From: Japan | Registered: Jan 2008
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posted
You did indeed imply in your statement that proof is needed to substantiate a negative claim, but I see your point and will take your word 4 it that you are just "pondering". My interjection was based on your thread title, which seems to automatically assume that slaves built all or most of the world's great societies (including ancient Egypt), regardless of the fact that no evidence is provided to back up such an assumption or a claim such as - "Slavery seems to always be the backbone of a great society, it's a sad but true statement".
^I'm simply wondering what it is that qualifies this to be a "true" statement.
Posts: 4021 | From: Bay Area, CA | Registered: Mar 2007
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posted
It might just be my wording, well in all the societies I listed slaves are documented, so it is POSSIBLE that slaves were also used on a large scale. Maybe my wording was off I see your point Posts: 105 | From: Japan | Registered: Jan 2008
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