posted
Genetics and archeology has proved conclusively that all series or steps of modern human evolution always began in tropical africa before spreading out to all over the world that is from the earliest hominids to homo sapien sapien.
Can anyone clarify why tropical africa has been the most effective evolutional pump although the tropics are found also in south america and some other places i.e australia?
Are there other factors involved other than the perfect weather etc.
Why has africa been always the starting point for life or is it just matter of probability?
Posts: 96 | Registered: Dec 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
^ Actually there are likely various answers or factors at play.
I know one biological fact is that diversity could be the key. There is a theory or rule which states that biological diversity is always greatest in the tropical areas. This is true of all forms of life from simple bacteria to plants and to animals.
Posts: 26267 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
This DJ is such a dick!! Hope you succeed in school. The man asked WHY AFRICA when OTHER tropical areas exist.
Please say when you don't know instead of BSing.
An educated guess may be "luck of the draw". By CHANCE life started in tropical Africa. Once it got started evolution took over. It could of easily have started in tropical South America also.
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
Ignore the above comment please. There is a disease of hate going around, People spreading hate, like 1 cent whores spreading disease.
I looked at an evolutionary time graph and the homo sapian line fluctuates (and now covers the entire earth) but always continues to survive in Africa as opposed to dying out.
posted
Seems you cannot read and undersand also - see below.
Sure you didn't buy that math degree.
Can anyone clarify why tropical africa has been the most effective evolutional pump although the tropics are found also in south america and some other places i.e australia?
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
Maybe it isn't any more complicated than the ancestors of homo sapiens having resided in Africa and NOT say, the South American tropics. As far as the tropics its self, I agree with Djehuti. It seems that the tropics may be better suited to support an abundance of life given its available resources, which naturally would lead to intra-species diversity and the sub-set populations that eventually [by selection and partly by luck of the draw] began to develop big brains became discernable.
What leads to such selection pressures for "brain development", etc, in Africa is a good question. Maybe bipedalism coincides with it. While humans evolved in a "tropical environment" per se, I believe humans are actually thought to have evolved in the Savanna. Climate changes would have been notable in the late Pleistocene accompanied by geological changes. The shrinking of forests and increase in savanna would necessitate early hominids to adapt. One would find it difficult to keep out a watchful eye for predators in the Savanna for the simple fact that it's hard to see over a brush, tall grass, etc, on all fours. Indeed, newer strategies would be required as well for hunting prey or even scavenging as the convenience of trees as a medium for travel, escape, pursuit, or sanctuary are gone.
-------------------- mr.writer.asa@gmail.com Posts: 4021 | From: Bay Area, CA | Registered: Mar 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
SO yeah you may be right it is a matter of probability.
This fools are answering to some make believe question. Maybe someone else has better data.
edited: changed your answer after the end of the test hmmm. . . DJ
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
| IP: Logged |
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
I think the person is asking WHAT makes Africa different/unique if the same environmental conditions exist in other parts of the globe. NOT - how and when did man evolve. Sure you guys finished schoool.
I said it was by chance Africa was chosen. Hope this is clear . . .NOW. Infact the person answered his own question in his last statement.
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
@Sundiata - Make believe - answering to something that was not asked.
better data - My view it was chance/luck of the draw/probability. Is there data showing something different. This was NOT a demand.
Hope that was clearer. Hate those long explanation. Try to be concise and sometimes the meaning is lost. I assume everyone will follow.
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by xyyman: This DJ is such a dick!! Hope you succeed in school. The man asked WHY AFRICA when OTHER tropical areas exist.
Because modern humans AKA Homo Sapiens originated in Africa as well as the whole genus Homo not to mention most primates.
So please stop with the labels of male genitalia unless YOU are a Homo as in Homosexual.
Posts: 26267 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
| IP: Logged |
^No, I believe it was your grammar that threw me off. It was bad grammar. Also excuse my wording, I didn't mean to accuse you of "demanding" anything. Concerning that..
quote:better data - My view it was chance/luck of the draw/probability. Is there data showing something different. This was NOT a demand
Evolutionary theory is a "theory". The only data available for analysis are from living specimens [and bones to a lesser extent]. I've alluded to data on climate change, and why the "theory" of evolution is supported by this data. As a matter of fact, you can read a better explanation here:
posted
Stupid comedian . .. eh? The man is asking WHY, not how, when and where. Why did it begin in Africa. We all know when it got started it will continue because of diversity. After all this is where it began.
WHY. . WHY. . . WHY . . . Africa. And not someplace else. JEEEZE!!!
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti:
quote:Originally posted by xyyman: This DJ is such a dick!! Hope you succeed in school. The man asked WHY AFRICA when OTHER tropical areas exist.
Because modern humans AKA Homo Sapiens originated in Africa as well as the whole genus Homo not to mention most primates.
So please stop with the labels of male genitalia unless YOU are a Homo as in Homosexual.
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
| IP: Logged |
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
Here is a theory that is popular among scientist, although it still a theory, it explains how hominids evolved and split from other primates... Evolution Tied to Earth Movement
Geologists Say ‘Wall of Africa’ Allowed Humanity to Emerge
Media Contacts
Dec. 19, 2007 - Scientists long have focused on how climate and vegetation allowed human ancestors to evolve in Africa. Now, University of Utah geologists are calling renewed attention to the idea that ground movements formed mountains and valleys, creating environments that favored the emergence of humanity.
"Tectonics [movement of Earth's crust] was ultimately responsible for the evolution of humankind," Royhan and Nahid Gani of the university's Energy and Geoscience Institute write in the January, 2008, issue of Geotimes, published by the American Geological Institute.
They argue that the accelerated uplift of mountains and highlands stretching from Ethiopia to South Africa blocked much ocean moisture, converting lush tropical forests into an arid patchwork of woodlands and savannah grasslands that gradually favored human ancestors who came down from the trees and started walking on two feet - an energy-efficient way to search larger areas for food in an arid environment.
In their Geotimes article, the Ganis - a husband-and-wife research team who met in college in their native Bangladesh - describe this 3,700-mile-long stretch of highlands and mountains as "the Wall of Africa." It parallels the famed East African Rift valley, where many fossils of human ancestors were found.
"Because of the crustal movement or tectonism in East Africa, the landscape drastically changed over the last 7 million years," says Royhan Gani (pronounced rye-hawn Go-knee), a research assistant professor of civil and environmental engineering. "That landscape controlled climate on a local to regional scale. That climate change spurred human ancestors to evolve from apes."
Hominins - the new scientific word for humans (Homo) and their ancestors (including Ardipithecus, Paranthropus and Australopithecus) - split from apes on the evolutionary tree roughly 7 million to 4 million years ago. Royhan Gani says the earliest undisputed hominin was Ardipithecus ramidus 4.4 million years ago. The earliest Homo arose 2.5 million years ago, and our species, Homo sapiens, almost 200,000 years ago.
Tectonics - movements of Earth's crust, including its ever-shifting tectonic plates and the creation of mountains, valleys and ocean basins - has been discussed since at least 1983 as an influence on human evolution.
But Royhan Gani says much previous discussion of how climate affected human evolution involves global climate changes, such as those caused by cyclic changes in Earth's orbit around the sun, and not local and regional climate changes caused by East Africa's rising landscape.
A Force from within the Earth The geological or tectonic forces shaping Africa begin deep in the Earth, where a "superplume" of hot and molten rock has swelled upward for at least the past 45 million years. This superplume and its branching smaller plumes help push apart the African and Arabian tectonic plates of Earth's crust, forming the Red Sea, Gulf of Aden and the Great Rift Valley that stretches from Syria to southern Africa.
As part of this process, Africa is being split apart along the East African Rift, a valley bounded by elevated "shoulders" a few tens of miles wide and sitting atop "domes" a few hundreds of miles wide and caused by upward bulging of the plume.
The East African Rift runs about 3,700 miles from the Ethiopian Plateau south-southwest to South Africa's Karoo Plateau. It is up to 370 miles wide and includes mountains reaching a maximum elevation of about 19,340 feet at Mount Kilimanjaro.
The rift "is characterized by volcanic peaks, plateaus, valleys and large basins and freshwater lakes," including sites where many fossils of early humans and their ancestors have been found, says Nahid Gani (pronounced nah-heed go-knee), a research scientist. There was some uplift in East Africa as early as 40 million years ago, but "most of these topographic features developed between 7 million and 2 million years ago."
A Wall Rises and New Species Evolve "Although the Wall of Africa started to form around 30 million years ago, recent studies show most of the uplift occurred between 7 million and 2 million years ago, just about when hominins split off from African apes, developed bipedalism and evolved bigger brains," the Ganis write.
"Nature built this wall, and then humans could evolve, walk tall and think big," says Royhan Gani. "Is there any characteristic feature of the wall that drove human evolution?"
The answer, he believes, is the variable landscape and vegetation resulting from uplift of the Wall of Africa, which created "a topographic barrier to moisture, mostly from the Indian Ocean" and dried the climate. He says that contrary to those who cite global climate cycles, the climate changes in East Africa were local and resulted from the uplift of different parts of the wall at different times.
Royhan Gani says the change from forests to a patchwork of woodland and open savannah did not happen everywhere in East Africa at the same time, and the changes also happened in East Africa later than elsewhere in the world.
The Ganis studied the roughly 300-mile-by-300-mile Ethiopian Plateau - the most prominent part of the Wall of Africa. Previous research indicated the plateau reached its present average elevation of 8,200 feet 25 million years ago. The Ganis analyzed rates at which the Blue Nile River cut down into the Ethiopian Plateau, creating a canyon that rivals North America's Grand Canyon. They released those findings in the September 2007 issue of GSA Today, published by the Geological Society of America.
The conclusion: There were periods of low-to-moderate incision and uplift between 29 million and 10 million years ago, and again between 10 million and 6 million years ago, but the most rapid uplift of the Ethiopian Plateau (by some 3,200 vertical feet) happened 6 million to 3 million years ago.
The Geotimes paper says other research has shown the Kenyan part of the wall rose mostly between 7 million and 2 million years ago, mountains in Tanganyika and Malawi were uplifted mainly between 5 million and 2 million years ago, and the wall's southernmost end gained most of its elevation during the past 5 million years.
"Clearly, the Wall of Africa grew to be a prominent elevated feature over the last 7 million years, thereby playing a prominent role in East African aridification by wringing moisture out of monsoonal air moving across the region," the Ganis write.
That period coincides with evolution of human ancestors in the area.
Royhan Gani says the earliest undisputed evidence of true bipedalism (as opposed to knuckle-dragging by apes) is 4.1 million years ago in Australopithecus anamensis, but some believe the trait existed as early as 6 million to 7 million years ago.
The Ganis speculate that the shaping of varied landscapes by tectonic forces - lake basins, valleys, mountains, grasslands, woodlands - "could also be responsible, at a later stage, for hominins developing a bigger brain as a way to cope with these extremely variable and changing landscapes" in which they had to find food and survive predators.
For now, Royhan Gani acknowledges the lack of more precise timeframes makes it difficult to link specific tectonic events to the development of upright walking, bigger brains and other key steps in human evolution. "But it all happened within the right time period," he says. "Now we need to nail it down."Evolution Tied to Earth Movement
Geologists Say ‘Wall of Africa’ Allowed Humanity to Emerge
Media Contacts
Dec. 19, 2007 - Scientists long have focused on how climate and vegetation allowed human ancestors to evolve in Africa. Now, University of Utah geologists are calling renewed attention to the idea that ground movements formed mountains and valleys, creating environments that favored the emergence of humanity.
"Tectonics [movement of Earth's crust] was ultimately responsible for the evolution of humankind," Royhan and Nahid Gani of the university's Energy and Geoscience Institute write in the January, 2008, issue of Geotimes, published by the American Geological Institute.
They argue that the accelerated uplift of mountains and highlands stretching from Ethiopia to South Africa blocked much ocean moisture, converting lush tropical forests into an arid patchwork of woodlands and savannah grasslands that gradually favored human ancestors who came down from the trees and started walking on two feet - an energy-efficient way to search larger areas for food in an arid environment.
In their Geotimes article, the Ganis - a husband-and-wife research team who met in college in their native Bangladesh - describe this 3,700-mile-long stretch of highlands and mountains as "the Wall of Africa." It parallels the famed East African Rift valley, where many fossils of human ancestors were found.
"Because of the crustal movement or tectonism in East Africa, the landscape drastically changed over the last 7 million years," says Royhan Gani (pronounced rye-hawn Go-knee), a research assistant professor of civil and environmental engineering. "That landscape controlled climate on a local to regional scale. That climate change spurred human ancestors to evolve from apes."
Hominins - the new scientific word for humans (Homo) and their ancestors (including Ardipithecus, Paranthropus and Australopithecus) - split from apes on the evolutionary tree roughly 7 million to 4 million years ago. Royhan Gani says the earliest undisputed hominin was Ardipithecus ramidus 4.4 million years ago. The earliest Homo arose 2.5 million years ago, and our species, Homo sapiens, almost 200,000 years ago.
Tectonics - movements of Earth's crust, including its ever-shifting tectonic plates and the creation of mountains, valleys and ocean basins - has been discussed since at least 1983 as an influence on human evolution.
But Royhan Gani says much previous discussion of how climate affected human evolution involves global climate changes, such as those caused by cyclic changes in Earth's orbit around the sun, and not local and regional climate changes caused by East Africa's rising landscape.
A Force from within the Earth The geological or tectonic forces shaping Africa begin deep in the Earth, where a "superplume" of hot and molten rock has swelled upward for at least the past 45 million years. This superplume and its branching smaller plumes help push apart the African and Arabian tectonic plates of Earth's crust, forming the Red Sea, Gulf of Aden and the Great Rift Valley that stretches from Syria to southern Africa.
As part of this process, Africa is being split apart along the East African Rift, a valley bounded by elevated "shoulders" a few tens of miles wide and sitting atop "domes" a few hundreds of miles wide and caused by upward bulging of the plume.
The East African Rift runs about 3,700 miles from the Ethiopian Plateau south-southwest to South Africa's Karoo Plateau. It is up to 370 miles wide and includes mountains reaching a maximum elevation of about 19,340 feet at Mount Kilimanjaro.
The rift "is characterized by volcanic peaks, plateaus, valleys and large basins and freshwater lakes," including sites where many fossils of early humans and their ancestors have been found, says Nahid Gani (pronounced nah-heed go-knee), a research scientist. There was some uplift in East Africa as early as 40 million years ago, but "most of these topographic features developed between 7 million and 2 million years ago."
A Wall Rises and New Species Evolve "Although the Wall of Africa started to form around 30 million years ago, recent studies show most of the uplift occurred between 7 million and 2 million years ago, just about when hominins split off from African apes, developed bipedalism and evolved bigger brains," the Ganis write.
"Nature built this wall, and then humans could evolve, walk tall and think big," says Royhan Gani. "Is there any characteristic feature of the wall that drove human evolution?"
The answer, he believes, is the variable landscape and vegetation resulting from uplift of the Wall of Africa, which created "a topographic barrier to moisture, mostly from the Indian Ocean" and dried the climate. He says that contrary to those who cite global climate cycles, the climate changes in East Africa were local and resulted from the uplift of different parts of the wall at different times.
Royhan Gani says the change from forests to a patchwork of woodland and open savannah did not happen everywhere in East Africa at the same time, and the changes also happened in East Africa later than elsewhere in the world.
The Ganis studied the roughly 300-mile-by-300-mile Ethiopian Plateau - the most prominent part of the Wall of Africa. Previous research indicated the plateau reached its present average elevation of 8,200 feet 25 million years ago. The Ganis analyzed rates at which the Blue Nile River cut down into the Ethiopian Plateau, creating a canyon that rivals North America's Grand Canyon. They released those findings in the September 2007 issue of GSA Today, published by the Geological Society of America.
The conclusion: There were periods of low-to-moderate incision and uplift between 29 million and 10 million years ago, and again between 10 million and 6 million years ago, but the most rapid uplift of the Ethiopian Plateau (by some 3,200 vertical feet) happened 6 million to 3 million years ago.
The Geotimes paper says other research has shown the Kenyan part of the wall rose mostly between 7 million and 2 million years ago, mountains in Tanganyika and Malawi were uplifted mainly between 5 million and 2 million years ago, and the wall's southernmost end gained most of its elevation during the past 5 million years.
"Clearly, the Wall of Africa grew to be a prominent elevated feature over the last 7 million years, thereby playing a prominent role in East African aridification by wringing moisture out of monsoonal air moving across the region," the Ganis write.
That period coincides with evolution of human ancestors in the area.
Royhan Gani says the earliest undisputed evidence of true bipedalism (as opposed to knuckle-dragging by apes) is 4.1 million years ago in Australopithecus anamensis, but some believe the trait existed as early as 6 million to 7 million years ago.
The Ganis speculate that the shaping of varied landscapes by tectonic forces - lake basins, valleys, mountains, grasslands, woodlands - "could also be responsible, at a later stage, for hominins developing a bigger brain as a way to cope with these extremely variable and changing landscapes" in which they had to find food and survive predators.
For now, Royhan Gani acknowledges the lack of more precise timeframes makes it difficult to link specific tectonic events to the development of upright walking, bigger brains and other key steps in human evolution. "But it all happened within the right time period," he says. "Now we need to nail it down."Posts: 461 | From: Kilimanjaro | Registered: Jan 2008
| IP: Logged |
Genetics and archeology has proved conclusively that all series or steps of modern human evolution always began in tropical africa before spreading out to all over the world that is from the earliest hominids to homo sapien sapien.
Can anyone clarify why tropical africa has been the most effective evolutional pump although the tropics are found also in south america and some other places i.e australia?
As was sort of alluded to earlier — re:diversity, more diversity allows for higher survival rate. For whatever reasons, ultimately due to sequence of events involved in the earth's environmental shifts arising from both reactions deep inside its crust and atmosphere — on the onset of its formation, Africa happened to have had the greatest diversity of the organic world, and hence, had the greatest chance of churning out more species.
quote:mentu writes:
Are there other factors involved other than the perfect weather etc.
Yes; it goes back to the above. The better a species in attaining *diversity*, the higher its chances of leaving behind projeny that will withstand the test of time. Since there is no such thing as a "perfect weather or environment", the innate ability of an organism to reproduce itself in abundance and in a wide variety of genetically variant offsprings [due to genetic "errors" or mutations], ensures that while a given environment may be hostile to the survival of one variant or the other, that same environment may not necessarily have much of a negative impact on another variant, simply because of the latter's innate resistance to that environment, born out of random genetic mutation.
quote:mentu writes:
Why has africa been always the starting point for life or is it just matter of probability?
Unless I'm missing something here, the "starting point of life" is still very much a scientific mystery. While there are random pieces of clues here and there, and associated theories as to how it could have landed on earth and thereof "grew" via the organic material world, the jury is still out on how life itself actually came into being.
Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
| IP: Logged |
posted
^Yes, logically, more diversity more efficient.
I'm not the most affluent guy in terms of biology, but I know a few things..
This principle is even used in Egineering; the goal in engineering /creation is to create the most efficient output possible, and a greater diversity of preliminary ideas helps make sure that the best ones aren't missed out on, when the weak ones are weeded out (this is natural selection as far as organisms go).
Ok, Africa has had the diversity of life, the resources to survive, but what of the natural selection aspect?
Books I've read suggest living there (as an early species without our present communicative skills, without weapons, repellants, or even someone to learn you any, nor the ability to think abstractly) the environnent would have been crucial too (in its difficulties).
Some scientist[s] suggest that fish diet may have been crucial to brain developement.
I have been wondering this lately. I mean language and the ability to think abstractly were big steps, but had to have had precursers.. doors that opened (modern anatomical brain) that made these things possible.
What sparked the very crucial Neolithic revolution of the Natufians is also very interesting.
Manipulation and thinking ahead seem like common themes when it comes to our progress -> what makes organisms 'want' to manipulate the environment in a way that has no immediate benefit for them? Build tools that can be used to kill. Make fire.
What gives/gave us the urge and intrigue to mess around with stuff? (Could it have something to do with personality, Like how Js just like to complete objectives vs Ps - we hat deadlines and objectives and often messing around go WAY over the top.
Habari, I apologise if your text answers some of the questions I've just asked I haven't read it yet.
Posts: 5555 | From: Tha 5th Dimension. | Registered: Apr 2006
| IP: Logged |
I have been wondering this lately. I mean language and the ability to think abstractly were big steps, but had to have had precursers.. doors that opened (modern anatomical brain) that made these things possible.
posted
Puting aside the rant and mumbo jumbo from ALIVE. Sounds like Africa had the "perfect storm" compared to other areas on the globe.
from Habari -
"Because of the crustal movement or tectonism in East Africa, the landscape drastically changed over the last 7 million years," says Royhan Gani (pronounced rye-hawn Go-knee), a research assistant professor of civil and environmental engineering. "That landscape controlled climate on a local to regional scale. That climate change spurred human ancestors to evolve from apes."
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
^You're not saying anything bruv. Alive's posts may sometimes not be as clear as desired (though he's steady improving), but that young man consistently talks more sense and shares more knowledge than you and damn near every other poster on this forum (except the vets of course).
...wasn't joking about the Psilocybin neither. Do your research.
Posts: 3423 | From: the jungle - when y'all stop playing games, call me. | Registered: Jul 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
How old are you? Hope you are out of your teens. Sound like you guys are still gang banging.
BTW I agree he shares more knowledge than me on this site. . . . .but what he said there was . . .as you said . . drug induced.
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
About the thinking ahead thing, I just remembered seeing a science article I never got to with one of the stories (now, tantalizingly) titled or summarized: "Researchers find that the part of our brain responsible for memory is also active when thinking about the future".
I'm reading that article.
quote:Orignially posted by Habari:
hominins developing a bigger brain as a way to cope with these extremely variable and changing landscapes" in which they had to find food and survive predators.
^Makes sense - our biggest asset as a species is our ability to forever adapt to our environments no random genetic mutations or luck any longer necissary.
A variable factor [environment its self] fostered our ability to adapt to variable environments.
@ Djehuti: I'm aware of the fact that we currently know little about the human mind, but what necissarily are the advantages in our bigger brains verses those of Apes?
quote:Originally posted by xyyman: How old are you? Hope you are out of your teens. Sound like you guys are still gang banging.
BTW I agree he shares more knowledge than me on this site. . . . .but what he said there was . . .as you said . . drug induced.
Don't accuse me of things I didn't say you senile old man.
Posts: 3423 | From: the jungle - when y'all stop playing games, call me. | Registered: Jul 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
That's one thing with the internet and these chat rooms/forums. You never are sure who you are talking to. First time I have been called an old man. I guess to a 16yr old gang banger 32yr is old.
AAAAASSSSSSS!!
but let's call it quites. You win.
quote:Originally posted by Heru-Behutet^*^:
quote:Originally posted by xyyman: How old are you? Hope you are out of your teens. Sound like you guys are still gang banging.
BTW I agree he shares more knowledge than me on this site. . . . .but what he said there was . . .as you said . . drug induced.
Don't accuse me of things I didn't say you senile old man.
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
| IP: Logged |
But you're still a senile young man to be saying things that don't make any sense. You should know by your age that illogical gaa gaa goo goo talk is for babies. What kind of a 32 yr old-man are you?Posts: 3423 | From: the jungle - when y'all stop playing games, call me. | Registered: Jul 2006
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Alive-(What Box): ^Yes, logically, more diversity more efficient.
Exactly. Too bad folks like Xyzman are too ignorant to understand the ABCs of biology including genetics.
Genetic diversity provides the raw material for nature to act on or select. That's how we have evolution in the first place.
It's estimated that Homo Sapiens (modern humans) evolved simultaneously in competition with other Homonid species. But nature selected and modern humans endured and survived.
Posts: 26267 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Alive-(What Box): ^Yes, logically, more diversity more efficient.
Exactly. Too bad folks like Xyzman are too ignorant to understand the ABCs of biology including genetics.
Genetic diversity provides the raw material for nature to act on or select. That's how we have evolution in the first place.
It's estimated that Homo Sapiens (modern humans) evolved simultaneously in competition with other Homonid species. But nature selected and modern humans endured and survived.
Funny, I happened across an Encyclopedic book on anthropology at the Library. You know where I'm at, so it's of course old, and so, I read it.
It was actually quite the non-biased thing, maybe slightly, I skimmed, but the only way in which it might have been Eurocentric is in the amount of info. given on certain continents (they'd give geographic specific info on certain terms like Agriculture and Europe came up on every other one) and of course the info was a bit outdated. It wasn't Eurcentric in the least in terms of early humans throughout Africa.
Anyway, in one early hominid (I think Austraelicilipithine or something) there was already great variation in size ("both stalky and very gracile types").
It was very informative on early humans.
btw, I don't even worry about xzman's posts; in this thread for instance, his posts read as if he's stoned or slammed or something. (imagine )
quote:Originally posted by Alive-(What Box): (Their instant memory is far superior to ours?)
Just for clarity I wasn't talking about me in that urine comment but quoting a youtube poster - those guys who post on the monkey vids are stupid funny, they ain't got no sense at all
Also, anyone else think that monkey in the last link got bored with Pacman and started dying on purpose?
Posts: 5555 | From: Tha 5th Dimension. | Registered: Apr 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
DJ understands genetics and he didn't finish school
But he cannot answer a simple question the thread starter asked.
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti:
quote:Originally posted by Alive-(What Box): ^Yes, logically, more diversity more efficient.
Exactly. Too bad folks like Xyzman are too ignorant to understand the ABCs of biology including genetics.
Genetic diversity provides the raw material for nature to act on or select. That's how we have evolution in the first place.
It's estimated that Homo Sapiens (modern humans) evolved simultaneously in competition with other Homonid species. But nature selected and modern humans endured and survived.
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
from ALIVE - It was very informative on early humans.
btw, I don't even worry about xzman's posts; in this thread for instance, his posts read as if he's stoned or slammed or something. (imagine )
I am sure you meant humanoids. Right?
Seems like everyone is on the "getting high" theme. Let's try being original. Or did I hit on some truth.
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by mentu: Genetics and archeology has proved conclusively that all series or steps of modern human evolution always began in tropical africa before spreading out to all over the world that is from the earliest hominids to homo sapien sapien.
Can anyone clarify why tropical africa has been the most effective evolutional pump although the tropics are found also in south america and some other places i.e australia?
Are there other factors involved other than the perfect weather etc.
Why has africa been always the starting point for life or is it just matter of probability?
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by mentu: Can anyone clarify why tropical africa has been the most effective evolutional pump although the tropics are found also in south america and some other places i.e australia?
^The thread starter (mentu) was commenting on the fact that despite there being other tropical places, Africa is where man evolved.
I concur Mentu's observation (his premise that Africa is the fundamental point of man's evolution), NOT attempting to contradict it NOR attempting to answer his question..
quote:Originally posted by Alive-(What Box): I [once] looked at an evolutionary time graph and the hominin[?] line fluctuates [to a lot of different regions]but always continued to survive[and develope] in Africa as opposed to dying out (and now cover the entire earth).
^So Africa, though there are other tropical climates, is special.
Finally, xyyman posts to me as if I was not only attempting to contradict mentu's premise, but without reading the initial post as well (catch the italicizing):
quote:Originally posted by xyyman: Seems you cannot read and undersand also - see below.
Can anyone clarify why tropical africa has been the most effective evolutional pump although the tropics are found also in south america and some other places i.e australia?
xxyman, I don't know what you think you see in my post that is conflicting with the initial post.
Djehuti's and others point out the diversity of life and other driving forces like morphing topographical features. There's nothing mumbo jumbo about any of it.
Posts: 5555 | From: Tha 5th Dimension. | Registered: Apr 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
It seemed that Mentu asnwered his own question.
Pulling out the italics -
Why Tropical Africa? Most effective. Also (compared to similar tropical areas in other parts of the world). Perfect weather. (Perfect environment) Africa been always the starting point for life. Probability.
@ Alive - but always continued to survive You are responding to his statement of fact not a question. In other words he knows this already.
Let me re-phrase - he is asking what is unique about the African environment when similar environment exist in other parts of the globe. Was it by chance it happened to be Africa?
From Habari's piece and Sundiata's link - who seem to understand the question. It is a combination of probability and the perfect environment. Diversity is the key to survival NOT the cause of life and why it started in Africa.
@ DJ- how is that for logic and a lesson in biology. . . .dunce!!!!
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
If you continue to answer questions wrong you will flunk out of school. Unless Rasol is marking the paper. He may curve your grade
Just trying to help, family. . .finally .
That "finally" come back was cute.
PS - I have NO dislike for you. So come off you hurt ego trip. As I said you have contributed a lot to this forum along with other vets. Despite your twisted conceited racial views. Some of us can read between the lines. So you are tolerated.
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
| IP: Logged |
Habari and Sundjata actually provided a likely scenario for why man evolved at all, let alone in Africa.
Posts: 5555 | From: Tha 5th Dimension. | Registered: Apr 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
One reason could be the fact that Africa spans all ecologies and climates[there's snow on Mt Kilimajaro]--except extreme cold weather. South Africa can get quite cold; same for the highland areas in East and West Africa.
The geographical shape and contour of Africa--length and breadth[almost the same] plus its plateau-like range--also lends itself to biological diversity. Compare Africa with the other land masses to get the point.
Posts: 5492 | Registered: Nov 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Thanks every body for these very informative answers.
So, although we will never know (for sure) the exact origin of our species, it seems probable that favourable environmental factors, mainly,terrain,diverse weather, etc,n found nowhere else other than africa, gave rise to diversity which was and is crucial to the survival of organisms, specifically, human species.
Posts: 96 | Registered: Dec 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
Archeology finds also support the hypothesis of life starting in Africa(the most ancient archeological findidng have been found in Africa).
Posts: 1106 | From: Puerto Rico | Registered: Aug 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
See DJ. Watch and learn. Answer what is asked.
BTW we do have a good idea about the origin of OUR species.
quote:Originally posted by mentu: Thanks every body for these very informative answers.
So, although we will never know (for sure) the exact origin of our species, it seems probable that favourable environmental factors, mainly,terrain,diverse weather, etc,n found nowhere else other than africa, gave rise to diversity which was and is crucial to the survival of organisms, specifically, human species.
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
Even primmy is getting civil. Stopped drink all that cola
So LIFE also began in Africa . So is there a correlation between ancient archeological finds and the begining of life???(scratch head)
Want to attempt this one DJ?
quote:Originally posted by prmiddleeastern: Archeology finds also support the hypothesis of life starting in Africa(the most ancient archeological findidng have been found in Africa).
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
Ho Ho Ho whore-us (Horus).. My attempt at humor.
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
You Didn't Get To Make An Attempt Posts: 3423 | From: the jungle - when y'all stop playing games, call me. | Registered: Jul 2006
| IP: Logged |
Thanks every body for these very informative answers.
So, although we will never know (for sure) the exact origin of our species
But we do know that!
You asked multiple questions, which required different answers, as I provided them. This would have been apparent to anybody with a slight sense of what was being said. E.g...
Q: Why was Africa "the most effective evolutional pump" [...which you never really spelt out, and so leaving one to guess that you are referring to homo sapien sapiens, as it was the subject of the very first paragraph]?
My answer: Africa housed the "most diversity to begin with", i.e. where apes and ancestral hominids were concerned...*AND* explained why this enabled Africa to churn out more varieties of hominids, and subsequently a.m.hs, as opposed to other geographical locations.
You also ask...
Q: Are there other factors involved other than the perfect weather etc?
My A: "Diversity and surivival of the fittest" would be the "other factor involved other than perfect whether"
Habari's citation of course hypothesizes on how the environment chimed in on the evolutionary process, prior to the coming of the ape-hominid family. So that would pertain to the "perfect weather, etc" part of your question, but doesn't answer that question.
But then, you go onto speak of the "starting point of life", which is not one and the same thing as "what makes" one "place a more ideal environment for an evolutionary event versus another"...
Q: Why has africa been always the starting point for life?
My answer: We don't yet know the starting point of life.
Africa being home to the homo sapien sapien species does not necessarily make it the "starting point of life itself".
So, questions were asked, and questions were answered accordingly!
Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
| IP: Logged |
from Ausarian: Africa being home to the homo sapien sapien species does not necessarily make it the "starting point of life itself".
So, questions were asked, and questions were answered accordingly!
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
| IP: Logged |
UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[Confused]](confused.gif)
. So is there a correlation between ancient archeological finds and the begining of life???(scratch head)
![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
Printer-friendly view of this topic