I don’t know the link, as I don’t know the links to many of your attention whorings (but just know the date you registered) aforementioned in my above post – I’ve only seen some of them in passing and only find links to threads I remember posting in.
You should still PM them about the thread, and post what you have to post there (in the thread).
quote: Why didn't you PM me and address your BS there? LOL [/QB]
Where? All of the links I edited into my post? Because I have better things to do that constantly tail a troll’s every post in all those threads.
Bottom line is it’s obvious you don’t know what you’re talking about, ever. Dependent on Sforza? Rotfl! Look, pup – the focus is on what a person does/says, unlike what you allege.
No where has it ever been said that this person is a Eurocentrist and an enemy – I endorse this person.
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Wow, you must really love me. I mean instead of tailing my every move, loverboy, you should be just as busy backing up your BS
quote:The faux-afrocentrist gang member responeded in a manner that reveals what he really thinks: he pre-supposes that "afrocentrism" - or a so-called afrocentric view of Egypt as held here - IS [racist africanist] revisionist history and therefore that Supercar et al would listen with open ears to his revisionism as far as the Jewish holocaust goes.
Stay on topic, not on my dick.
quote:Bottom line is it’s obvious you don’t know what you’re talking about, ever. Dependent on Sforza? Rotfl! Look, pup – the focus is on what a person does/says, unlike what you allege.No where has it ever been said that this person is a Eurocentrist and an enemy – I endorse this person.
If you weren't so busy s**king dicks loverboy you would notice I am focusing on what Sforza says re Ethiopians and his racial categories - the latter I don't have a problem with since I'm not the one seeing the construct of "race" as "propaganda"...
And who gives a f**k who you endorse anyway? LOL
Posts: 4165 | From: jamaica | Registered: May 2008
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^ akoben is a manic depressive and very very *very* sick person. Don't let him drag you down to his frequency.
Posts: 3423 | From: the jungle - when y'all stop playing games, call me. | Registered: Jul 2006
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Idea of a Jewish people invented, says historian by Jonathan Cook
No one is more surprised than Shlomo Sand that his latest academic work has spent 19 weeks on Israel's bestseller list – and that success has come to the history professor despite his book challenging Israel's biggest taboo.
Dr. Sand argues that the idea of a Jewish nation – whose need for a safe haven was originally used to justify the founding of the state of Israel – is a myth invented little more than a century ago.
An expert on European history at Tel Aviv University, Dr. Sand drew on extensive historical and archaeological research to support not only this claim but several more – all equally controversial.
In addition, he argues that the Jews were never exiled from the Holy Land, that most of today's Jews have no historical connection to the land called Israel and that the only political solution to the country's conflict with the Palestinians is to abolish the Jewish state.
The success of When and How Was the Jewish People Invented? looks likely to be repeated around the world. A French edition, launched last month, is selling so fast that it has already had three print runs.
Translations are under way into a dozen languages, including Arabic and English. But he predicted a rough ride from the pro-Israel lobby when the book is launched by his English publisher, Verso, in the United States next year.
In contrast, he said Israelis had been, if not exactly supportive, at least curious about his argument. Tom Segev, one of the country's leading journalists, has called the book "fascinating and challenging."
Surprisingly, Dr. Sand said, most of his academic colleagues in Israel have shied away from tackling his arguments. One exception is Israel Bartal, a professor of Jewish history at Hebrew University in Jerusalem. Writing in Haaretz, the Israeli daily newspaper, Dr. Bartal made little effort to rebut Dr. Sand's claims. He dedicated much of his article instead to defending his profession, suggesting that Israeli historians were not as ignorant about the invented nature of Jewish history as Dr. Sand contends.
The idea for the book came to him many years ago, Dr. Sand said, but he waited until recently to start working on it. "I cannot claim to be particularly courageous in publishing the book now," he said. "I waited until I was a full professor. There is a price to be paid in Israeli academia for expressing views of this sort."
Dr. Sand's main argument is that until little more than a century ago, Jews thought of themselves as Jews only because they shared a common religion. At the turn of the 20th century, he said, Zionist Jews challenged this idea and started creating a national history by inventing the idea that Jews existed as a people separate from their religion.
Equally, the modern Zionist idea of Jews being obligated to return from exile to the Promised Land was entirely alien to Judaism, he added.
"Zionism changed the idea of Jerusalem. Before, the holy places were seen as places to long for, not to be lived in. For 2,000 years Jews stayed away from Jerusalem not because they could not return but because their religion forbade them from returning until the messiah came."
The biggest surprise during his research came when he started looking at the archaeological evidence from the biblical era.
"I was not raised as a Zionist, but like all other Israelis I took it for granted that the Jews were a people living in Judea and that they were exiled by the Romans in 70AD.
"But once I started looking at the evidence, I discovered that the kingdoms of David and Solomon were legends.
"Similarly with the exile. In fact, you can't explain Jewishness without exile. But when I started to look for history books describing the events of this exile, I couldn't find any. Not one.
"That was because the Romans did not exile people. In fact, Jews in Palestine were overwhelming peasants and all the evidence suggests they stayed on their lands."
Instead, he believes an alternative theory is more plausible: the exile was a myth promoted by early Christians to recruit Jews to the new faith. "Christians wanted later generations of Jews to believe that their ancestors had been exiled as a punishment from God."
So if there was no exile, how is it that so many Jews ended up scattered around the globe before the modern state of Israel began encouraging them to "return"?
Dr. Sand said that, in the centuries immediately preceding and following the Christian era, Judaism was a proselytizing religion, desperate for converts. "This is mentioned in the Roman literature of the time."
Jews traveled to other regions seeking converts, particularly in Yemen and among the Berber tribes of North Africa. Centuries later, the people of the Khazar kingdom in what is today south Russia, would convert en masse to Judaism, becoming the genesis of the Ashkenazi Jews of central and eastern Europe.
Dr. Sand pointed to the strange state of denial in which most Israelis live, noting that papers offered extensive coverage recently to the discovery of the capital of the Khazar kingdom next to the Caspian Sea.
Ynet, the website of Israel's most popular newspaper, Yedioth Ahronoth, headlined the story: "Russian archaeologists find long-lost Jewish capital." And yet none of the papers, he added, had considered the significance of this find to standard accounts of Jewish history.
One further question is prompted by Dr. Sand's account, as he himself notes: if most Jews never left the Holy Land, what became of them?
"It is not taught in Israeli schools but most of the early Zionist leaders, including David Ben Gurion [Israel's first prime minister], believed that the Palestinians were the descendants of the area's original Jews. They believed the Jews had later converted to Islam."
Dr. Sand attributed his colleagues' reticence to engage with him to an implicit acknowledgement by many that the whole edifice of "Jewish history" taught at Israeli universities is built like a house of cards.
The problem with the teaching of history in Israel, Dr. Sand said, dates to a decision in the 1930s to separate history into two disciplines: general history and Jewish history. Jewish history was assumed to need its own field of study because Jewish experience was considered unique.
"There's no Jewish department of politics or sociology at the universities. Only history is taught in this way, and it has allowed specialists in Jewish history to live in a very insular and conservative world where they are not touched by modern developments in historical research.
"I've been criticized in Israel for writing about Jewish history when European history is my specialty. But a book like this needed a historian who is familiar with the standard concepts of historical inquiry used by academia in the rest of the world."
Posts: 4165 | From: jamaica | Registered: May 2008
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There appears to be an increasing number of Israel scholars and historians releasing books and reports championing this theory abd rejecting the zionist revisionist histories. I agree with the author. Once Israel makes this kind of transition, they may finally have a real chance to obtain peace. Many Israelis feel the same way and the reason why these opinions are swiftly becoming more mainstream.
Posts: 3595 | From: Moved To Mars. Waiting with shotgun | Registered: Dec 2006
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quote:Originally posted by alTakruri: For the Israelites prophecy is the exact words of the deity uttered through the mouth of a mortal of the deity's choosing.
Evergreen Writes:
This makes sense. Western Man is left-brain oriented by nature and hence literalistic, materialistic and objective. The Canaanites, like the later Greeks were both students of the ancient African legacy. Yet much of this legacy was symbolic and not simply open to literal or exact interpretation. With the decline of the Egyptian priesthood man fell into a dark-age which we have yet to fully recover from.
"For he that hath, to him shall be given: and he that hath not, from him shall be taken even that which he hath."
I could not agree more with this statement - from the introduction of the dispassionate passive voice now required in academia, to the pursuit of reason without the marriage of emotion.
Read leonard shlain he writes about this exact sudden decline in the ancient world though he doesn't seem to recgonise it's root as you have pointed out.It's a very popular book,look him up.
Posts: 70 | From: Australia | Registered: Sep 2008
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Since the Jew-frightened-faggot is too scared to do it...
HERE IT IS! The thread where your claims of Jewish religion were first address..
Posts: 26286 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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^ What cowardice?! I'm not the one running around from thread to thread hurling insults while at the same time not presenting any evidence to back up so-called claims, whereas it is I who bumped up this thread to address them?!
You are definitely one sick twisted queer. Posts: 26286 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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^ It's not a matter of what I "recognize" but what is! List your false list first and I'll point out (again) your errors. Or do you want me to relist them in order to whip your masochistass again? I prefer the latter so I can both humiliate and educate you on the subject as well! Posts: 26286 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:stankopenass screams: @ this nine year old Manila call girl! Bitch proceed...
Yes, keep on with the ad-hominem and ethnic slurs. That is ALL you're good for since you don't have the brains for any decent civil let alone scholarly debate you manifest your frustrations like the british schoolgirl that your alter-ego is.
But I got you exactly where I want you, so your dumb cowardlyass can't hide in other threads any longer!
Moving on...
YOUR claims of Egyptian influence on Israelite religion is the Garden of Eden, the Ark of the Covenant, "cherubs", and monotheism...
1. The Garden of Eden is NOT of Egyptian origin and the place as well as the creation myth it's a part of is very much rooted in Asia being found in Sumerian myth. The tale of the two trees one of knowledge and the other of immortality and the wise serpent is Levantine myth associated with mother-goddess cult.
2. You say "cherubs" are of Egyptian origin. Cherubim are a class of angels and angels are obviously NOT of Egyptian origin. You claim they derived from Egyptian winged goddesses but such circumstantial evidence is not enough as winged as the belief or depiction of winged creatures in general was widespread in ancient times. For one angels were not goddesses but beings totally non-human and non-sexual in description. That Jewish lore says they can take on any form-- men or women-- but that their true forms are gigantic in size, shine brightly to the sight, and inhabit the heavens show more in common with spirit beings in other parts of the Levant and Arabia than in Egypt.
3. Monotheism being of Egyptian origin is of course silly considering the Egyptians were polytheists and worshipped multiple deities. While the Israelites may not be unique in the world for having monotheistic beliefs, there were likely unique in the particular area of the world they live in. Even if point out henotheistic origins, there is nothing to suggest Egyptian roots rather than Levantine roots of the traditions. And those who claim the Amarna cult as origin still can't explain why the Aten is a sun idol where the Israelites had no idols at all for their cult of Yahweh.
4. The ONLY thing true in your list of Egyptian influence is the Ark of the Covenant which is based on Egyptian arks which were vessels that held the sacred objects of deities. You can pat yourself on the back for being lucky enough to get this right as you obviously don't know much about either Egyptian culture or Israelite culture.
So out of 4 you got 1.
Here is more:
1. Israelite temple structure and planning that contains an inner shrine for the holy of holies made available only to the king and priesthood-- this is an Egyptian custom and actually contradicts Hebrew belief that the deity should be available to all people
2. Early stories in Genesis of important nations consisting of 12 princes which reflects the older myth of Egypt once being ruled by 12 princes. The 12 tribes on the other hand is not Egyptian but likely comes from even more prehistoric Afrasian roots.
3. State temple rituals such as burning incense and ritual bathing and cleaning rituals for the priesthood is likely Egyptian
4. Early Israelite military organizations including infaltry formations bear a striking resemblance to Egyptian ones. Some scholars think this military knowledge came from Moses who was part of the Egyptian court, others say it could come from Egyptian military presence in Israel. It could also be both..
There is probably a few others, but the point is by and large Israelite religous beliefs and traditions are NOT Egyptian but Asiatic in origin--- largely Levantine but also some Mesopotamian influence. That the Israelites were subject to Egyptian influence while living in Egypt is a given, but it was not as great as YOU claim it nor did they "steal" anything from Egypt, especially considering that the Israelites still lived in their own communities and preserved their own traditions which were largely different from Egyptians.
So Eva, as the fake Africanist Nazipussy that you are I expect the b*tching to begin. Posts: 26286 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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^ I can only imagine the debauched British she-male as his pale face turns red, consumed with anger and frustration typing up a storm of ad-hominem insults and misinformation.
What's taking so long, Eva?? Maybe you need a break. Perhaps a bathroom break with other men to relieve your frustrations as you relieve theirs...
Posts: 26286 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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@ Mary repeating her denials as if that makes them any more valid.
too @ Mary now referring to a "cult of Yahweh" after I pointed out his Judaic bias and prejudice against African religions referring to them as cults. Comb through this thread and you will NOT see any such reference to a "cult of Yahweh" prior to this!
Now moving on to your twisted logic Mary.
So according to you, the Ark of the Covenant, temple structure, Genesis stories of 12 princes, burning incense, ritual bathing and cleaning are the "real" AE influences on Hebrew religion, while the rest is attributed to Levantine (note you made reference to the so-called mother-goddess cult as if that is not AFRICAN in origin!!!) and "some" Mesopotamian influence, even Arabian (!!!) LOLOLOL
Wow, Mary, in trying to avoid African influence on Judaism you include Arabs who you are on record as saying didn't even exist when Judaism was being created!! This is how much you hate admitting African influence Mary? Seriously.
Moving on...
Your artful dodging is fundamentally flawed for obvious reasons Mary. Basically you admit to the "shell" of Judaism as being of Egyptian influence but the yoke, the religion itself, which the Ark the temple structure and rituals are an integral part of, is not!
So while living in Egypt they picked up the model and concept for the Ark (which incidentally the common man wouldn't know about) but somehow managed to bypass Aknaton's monotheism and the concpet of the winged creatures, significance of the number twelve and seven, serpent as evil etc. all that related stuff they got from non-African sources.
This is how much you hate admitting African influence Mary? Seriously.
You see the rest as Asiatic in origin, but this is after you say you think the said Asiatic cultures (and even Greece) have an African origin, "more than mere coincidence and stems from a common neolithic or even mesolithic source that is African in origin."
You artful dodging, self-contradictory, anti-Afrocentric Filipoo! Me thinks you, like gringo, try to save face too much hence you end up tongue tied. LOL
The American Patriot types are more honest than insidious anti-Africans like you Mary Lefkowitz.
Posts: 4165 | From: jamaica | Registered: May 2008
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quote:Originally abused-asshole: @ Mary repeating her denials as if that makes them any more valid.
No "Mary" here, only a I-- an intelligent man and yourself-- a misguided neo-nazi sexually deviant euroboy in panties.
quote:too @ Mary now referring to a "cult of Yahweh" after I pointed out his Judaic bias and prejudice against African religions referring to them as cults. Comb through this thread and you will NOT see any such reference to a "cult of Yahweh" prior to this!
LMAO You imbecilic liar! How am I prejudice against African religions??! A cult by definition is a specific religious following or worship centered around a deity. Just take a look at the thread where you first accused me such, and you will notice I NEVER called African religions or even Egyptian religions cults! I called the specific worship of deities such as Amon and Ra cults, you moron!! Also this thread is NOT the first time I spoke of a cult of Yahweh. I do recall describing such in threads about Judaism or ancient Israelites in the past-- long before your sorryass even showed up in this forum!
Again YOUR false accusations! Like I told your boyfriend Argay, the burden of proof is on YOU to back up your allegations which of course you can't! But of course these false allegations are only a DISTRACTION from the relevant discourse.
quote:Now moving on to your twisted logic Mary.
Sorry, but this is DJEHUTI your are dealing with and not some old Jewish school teacher. You speak of others twisted logic when yours is the most twisted mind in this forum.
quote:So according to you, the Ark of the Covenant, temple structure, Genesis stories of 12 princes, burning incense, ritual bathing and cleaning are the "real" AE influences on Hebrew religion, while the rest is attributed to Levantine (note you made reference to the so-called mother-goddess cult as if that is not AFRICAN in origin!!!) and "some" Mesopotamian influence, even Arabian (!!!) LOLOLOL
Care to disprove anything I said for a change?? I didn't think so.
quote:Wow, Mary, in trying to avoid African influence on Judaism you include Arabs who you are on record as saying didn't even exist when Judaism was being created!! This is how much you hate admitting African influence Mary? Seriously.
No moron! First of all, notice I said Arabians and not Arab. Second of all I don't hate anything except stupidity from nitwits like YOU. I acknowledge African influence where it exists and not some loon's aburd attempts to discredit Jews.
quote:Moving on...
Yes to more of your nonsense.
quote:Your artful dodging is fundamentally flawed for obvious reasons Mary. Basically you admit to the "shell" of Judaism as being of Egyptian influence but the yoke, the religion itself, which the Ark the temple structure and rituals are an integral part of, is not!
Nope. As usual you love to put words in others mouths. I specifically pointed out which features of the religion was likely due to Egyptian influence. Whereas what YOU pointed out was not.
quote:So while living in Egypt they picked up the model and concept for the Ark (which incidentally the common man wouldn't know about) but somehow managed to bypass Aknaton's monotheism and the concpet of the winged creatures, significance of the number twelve and seven, serpent as evil etc. all that related stuff they got from non-African sources.
Akhenaton's monotheism was the worship of the aten (the sun). The Aten was quite different from the Israelites' concept of Yahweh. Also, there is archaeological evidence to show that monotheism became standard in Israel quite late in history with polytheism being more common in the past. The significance of the number 12 is found in ancient Levantine culture and not only Egyptian and may go back to prehistoric Afrasian roots. The same can be said for the number 7 which is just as prominent in Babylon, and serpents were sacred to the Egyptians. I've already explained the serpent in the Garden of Eden Levantine.
quote:This is how much you hate admitting African influence Mary? Seriously.
Nope. Again no Mary, and your accusations of me are just lies.
quote:You see the rest as Asiatic in origin, but this is after you say you think the said Asiatic cultures (and even Greece) have an African origin, "more than mere coincidence and stems from a common neolithic or even mesolithic source that is African in origin."
LOL Yes Asiatic origins post African Neolithic dispersals is quite different from historical Egyptian influence. So keep twisting and squirming like the stupid worm you are!
quote:You artful dodging, self-contradictory, anti-Afrocentric Filipoo! Me thinks you, like gringo, try to save face too much hence you end up tongue tied. LOL
LMAO Sorry but I don't dodge anone or anything! YOU try to, but are just too stupid you lying, fake-afrocentric perveted gay euro-scum bag!
quote:The American Patriot types are more honest than insidious anti-Africans like you Mary Lefkowitz.
Again, I'm not Lefkowitz you delirious demented dummy! And nobody here is buying your LIES that I'm "anti-African" no more than you are 'africanist'! LMAOPosts: 26286 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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^ For anyone else reading, you see how stupid the poofy-boy is. He obviously sees he's been refuted but doesn't want to admit it! So he resorts to LYING and making up ridiculous things like me being "anti-African" or accusing me of saying things I never said!
The same troll tactics, really. Posts: 26286 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote: I called the specific worship of deities such as Amon and Ra cults
Wow, you Manila imbecile, and that isn't calling African religions cults? Keep going Mary, you're making yourself look better each time. LOL
quote: I do recall describing such in threads about Judaism or ancient Israelites in the past-- long before your sorryass even showed up in this forum!
Yeh right, so you just forgot how to refer to the Hebrew religion as a "cult" as soon as I showed up right? LOL Keep 'em coming Mary. Lol
quote: No moron! First of all, notice I said Arabians and not Arab.
So "Arabians" existed before "Arabs"? What did the "Arabians" speak? LOL Keep 'em coming!
quote: was likely due to Egyptian influence.
Notice you say "likely" when referring to AE or "Afrasian" influence but not when referring to Asia? Is this your natural bias towards Asia? You duck egg eating Asiancentric. LOL Keep 'em coming.
quote: Akhenaton's monotheism was the worship of the aten (the sun). The Aten was quite different from the Israelites' concept of Yahweh.
By "different" you mean they both acknowledged the oneness of the creator? LOL Keep 'em coming.
quote:The significance of the number 12 is found in ancient Levantine culture and not only Egyptian and may go back to prehistoric Afrasian roots. The same can be said for the number 7 which is just as prominent in Babylon, and serpents were sacred to the Egyptians. I've already explained the serpent in the Garden of Eden Levantine.
Yeh, but you forget that Hebrew tradition points to Moses (founder of Judaism: temple structure, rituals and all) as having been risen in all wisdom of the Egyptians ***not*** the Babylonians or Canaanites you biased Asiancentric jackass.
In other words Mary, you would rather see Hebrew concepts as rooted in a civilisation (Babylonia) that is much further away from Hebrew/Levantine region than next door in Africa. This is how much you hate admitting African influence Mary? Seriously. Keep 'em coming.
Oh and serpents had a dual (good and evil) significance in AE, so too in Hebrew myth which is largely derived from AE.
quote: Yes Asiatic origins post African Neolithic dispersals is quite different from historical Egyptian influence.
Asiatic origins? I thought you said African? This must be your Asiancentrism again. I think I know why you are so defensive about African (AE) influences outweighing Asian.
Coupled with your Eurocentric anti-Stolen Legacy remarks how can you not be Mary Lefkowitz: a white Jew appropriating an Asian culture???!!
quote:And nobody here is buying your LIES that I'm "anti-African" no more than you are 'africanist'!
As if anyone here agrees with your Asiancentrism and Eurocentrism
Evergreen - The Canaanites, like the later Greeks were both students of the ancient African legacy
Doug - In some cases "stole" is literally the correct answer
Great Jew - Is it clear yet that there is a STOLEN LEGACY and it is perfectly valid, legal, moral and dutiful to declare, "**** stinks... James includes both Archaic and Classical philosophers as 'redactors' of the Wisdom of Egypt.
Posts: 4165 | From: jamaica | Registered: May 2008
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: [QUOTE]Originally posted by akoben08: [qb] No Israelis before 1948. And in denying the tribal nomads stole Canaanite culture you sound like Eurocentrics who insist, despite evidence, that the ancient Greeks didn't steal Egyptian knowledge. LOL AE was superior culture to Canaan, in turn superior to primitive tribal Jews who stole monotheism and spirituality from AE, while still holding on to primitive angry Canaanite god el/baal who seems to delights in smiting people/genocide.Of course there were no Israelis, but there were ancient Israelites] whom you previously denied! I on the other hand don't deny anything. Apparently your warped little mind can't get around the fact that there was no cultural theft in the sense that a people actually acquired something of another people without due credit which is something modern Westerners are guilty of. Such was not the case of the ancient Israelites who like countless peoples back then were part of the process of free cultural exchange in which they borrowed aspects of another culture while influencing others. Hence, the Greeks borrowed certain aspects from the Egyptians and openly gave the Egyptians credit for it. The same way Christianity and Islam are also products of Israelite/Jewish customs. Yet no one accuses Europeans or Arabs of 'stealing' Jewish culture. That book you linked to is silly by the way, since Greek Classical philosophy was homegrown and did not come from Egypt! Also, if you read anything from Biblical or Jewish scripture, you would know that the Israelite religious and community leaders actually struggled to rid their society of Canaanite cultural influence! Also many of the similarities between Hebrew and Canaanite culture may not even stem from cultural influence from the latter but a shared root or origin as Semitic speaking peoples. Or did you not even consider that?? And since when did Jews take monotheistic beliefs from the Egyptians?? Last time I checked, the Egyptians were polytheists who believed in a myriad of gods!
In his magnum opus A Lost Tradition: African Philosophy in World History (1975), Thoephile Obenga documents the confessions of 'famous' revered Greeks (the world's first Europeans) in their own Greek Hellenic language that they all received their education at the Temple of Waset in ancient Kemet (Egypt) and that their teachers were the master-thinkers or High priests in the Nile Valley. The Temple of Waset is the world's first university and was built during the reign of Pharaoh Amenhotep 111 in the XV111 Dynasty, 1405-1370 B.C. For example, "it is generally taught that Thales of Miletus (624-547 B.C.) was the first Greek philosopher and the founder of the Presocratic Ionian school in Asia Minor (and) is traditionally the first (protos) to have revealed the investigation of nature."
The truism is that Thales "received his training from Egyptian priests in the Nile Valley. This is clearly recorded by the Greeks themselves." According to "the corpus of ancient Greek testimonia with regard to the fruitful instruction received by Thales in Egypt: "Thales, one of the so-called 'Seven Sages', had no regular teacher in his life save for the priests of Egypt, under whom he studied." (p.28). "Thales of Miletus had never been taught by a master in Greece. Thales' pursuit of instruction saw him go by sea to Egypt, where he spent time with the Egyptian priests." Plato records that Thales was educated in Egypt under the priests: "Thales was well and truly indebted to Egypt for his education." According to Aetius, "Thales studied philosophy in Egypt for a long enough period to be considered an elder when he returned."(p.29). "The science of geometry was invented in Egypt. Thales transferred the speculative science of geometry to Greece. There was no method of intellectual inquiry such as geometry in Greece before Thales' departure for Egypt. Upon his return, however, Thales introduced geometry (geometrein) in Greece." (p.31).
Indeed, "more than 1,000 years before Thales' birth, Egyptians had correctly calculated the areas of rectangles, triangles and isosceles trapeziums. The area of a circle had also been obtained accurately." (p.32). The Greek Hellenic record shows that Pythagoras (born circa 572 B.C.) like another ancient philosopher (he) Pythagoras journeyed in his youth to Egypt where, for an indefinite number of years, he pursued studies in astronomy, geometry, and theology under the tutelage of Egyptian priests."(p.34). It was Thales who "had recommended that above all, Pythagoras should meet the clergy of Memphis and Thebes (old capitals of Kemet) in order to gain a higher level of knowledge." (p.37).
Aristotle (384-322 B.C.) "ranked the country of the Pharaohs as the most ancient archaeological reserve in the world."(.p.45). In his Greek Hellenic confession, he wrote: "That is how the Egyptians, whom we considered as the most ancient of the human race," lived in a country which was entirely the product and the work of the (Nile) river.
Aristotle also confesses: "Thus, the mathematical sciences first originated in Egypt, the cradle of Mathematics--- that is, the country of origin for Greek mathematics."(pp.47-48). Moreover, after evaluating "the astronomical knowledge acquired by the Egyptians, Aristotle was compelled to conclude: "we owe many incontrovertible facts about each of the stars' to the Egyptians". (p.51). The fact of the matter is that these confessions are prima facie evidence that the original glory is not out of Greece. The original glory belongs to the Africans/Kemites of ancient Kemet/Egypt; "Herodotus said it, Plato confirmed it and Aristotle never denied it." (.9.45). In addition, all the other 'famous' Greeks received their education from the African Highpriests including Socrates, Euclid, Hypocrates, Diodorus, Solon, Archmides and Euripides.
The Greek, St. Clement of Alexandria , stated that if you were to write a book of 1,000 pages, you could not put down the names of all the Greeks who went to the Nile Valley in Kemet/Egypt, Africa, to be educated and even those who did not go claim they went because it was prestigious.
Posts: 108 | From: LA | Registered: May 2009
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Hey Mary, look at how easy that was! Why can't you do it yet? Are you hiding from me?
If so then I don't hold it against you Mary, in your efforts to deny further the truth of African origins I suggest you take your time in compiling your reply, you don't want to end up more twisted and illogical than you already are. lol
Posts: 4165 | From: jamaica | Registered: May 2008
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Hey Mary, look at how easy that was! Why can't you do it yet? Are you hiding from me?
If so then I don't hold it against you Mary, in your efforts to deny further the truth of African origins I suggest you take your time in compiling your reply, you don't want to end up more twisted and illogical than you already are. lol
I think I may have posted to much evidence for Mary in the above quote Posts: 108 | From: LA | Registered: May 2009
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^ I'm not Mary Lefkowitz! And don't allow yourself to be fooled by that idiot nazi!
quote:from the dumbassopen: Wow, you Manila imbecile, and that isn't calling African religions cults? Keep going Mary, you're making yourself look better each time. LOL
Does your dumbass even know the meaning of cult?? Here it is again since you apparently missed it:
cult /kʌlt/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [kuhlt] Show IPA –noun 1. a particular system of religious worship, esp. with reference to its rites and ceremonies. 2. an instance of great veneration of a person, ideal, or thing, esp. as manifested by a body of admirers: the physical fitness cult. 3. the object of such devotion. 4. a group or sect bound together by veneration of the same thing, person, ideal, etc. 5. Sociology. a group having a sacred ideology and a set of rites centering around their sacred symbols..
'Religion' is a general term for spiritual beliefs in general, 'cult' is specific for any rites or rituals centered around an object of worship.
quote:Yeh right, so you just forgot how to refer to the Hebrew religion as a "cult" as soon as I showed up right? LOL Keep 'em coming Mary. Lol
I'm know I'm right, bitch. The Israelite relgion is centered on the cult of one god. That your dumbass doesn't know the difference between religion and cult is NOT my fault. LOL
quote:So "Arabians" existed before "Arabs"? What did the "Arabians" speak? LOL Keep 'em coming!
Yes, Arabians as in inhabitants of the Arabian peninsula unless you're saying that geographic feature did not exist back then, nitwit!! It's likely these Arabians spoke Semitic languages like the early Israelites, dumbass. Must I explain every elementary thing to you?? You definitely have no business in this forum, Eva!
quote:Notice you say "likely" when referring to AE or "Afrasian" influence but not when referring to Asia? Is this your natural bias towards Asia? You duck egg eating Asiancentric. LOL Keep 'em coming.
No bias at all. I say likely because it is not as definitive as the Asian influences which are much easier to see. Whatever AE features can only be accounted on the fact of its difference from Asian practices and similarities to Egypt. As far as Afrasian this is just as speculative because Afrasian is even more ancient and even prehistoric. I'm neither Asiacentric nor Afrocentric nor Eurocentric, just truthcentric and I'd rather eat duck than dick as is your usual diet.
quote:By "different" you mean they both acknowledged the oneness of the creator? LOL Keep 'em coming.
That can be said for any monotheistic religion from Korean Shintoism to some Native American religions dumbass! The only difference is the Aten was the sun whereas the Israelite god was NOT.
Yeah, I'll keep it coming alright!
Posts: 26286 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Yeh, but you forget that Hebrew tradition points to Moses (founder of Judaism: temple structure, rituals and all) as having been risen in all wisdom of the Egyptians ***not*** the Babylonians or Canaanites you biased Asiancentric jackass.
Of course, but your dumbass apparently forgot about Moses predecessors in Asia like Abraham who was in fact the true founder of Hebrew traditions that includes all other beliefs and practices that were obviously non-Egyptian.
quote:In other words Mary, you would rather see Hebrew concepts as rooted in a civilisation (Babylonia) that is much further away from Hebrew/Levantine region than next door in Africa. This is how much you hate admitting African influence Mary? Seriously. Keep 'em coming.
Again, there's no 'Mary' here but I Djehuti. Hebrew concepts are rooted in the Levant right there with their immediate Canaanite neighbors more so than Egypt or Babylon. Again I never denied African influence, I just don't make stuff up as YOU do.
quote:Oh and serpents had a dual (good and evil) significance in AE, so too in Hebrew myth which is largely derived from AE.
Nope. Serpents were largely good in Egypt. In Jewish symbolism however they were almost always evil. This association with evil was no doubt connected to the goddess worship of Asherah as indicated in the Garden of Eden where no such myth exists in Egypt. What else you got, moron?
quote:Asiatic origins? I thought you said African? This must be your Asiancentrism again. I think I know why you are so defensive about African (AE) influences outweighing Asian.
You moron, in the other thread I spoke of African origins of Neolithic culture, this is different from more recent historical traditions found in Asia. Does your dumbass know the difference between the two??
quote:Coupled with your Eurocentric anti-Stolen Legacy remarks how can you not be Mary Lefkowitz: a white Jew appropriating an Asian culture???!!
Just because I disagree with your "stolen legacy" premise doesn not make me Eurocentric just as agreeing with Asian based motifs in Jewish religion not make me Asiocentric, or African neolithic diffusion to your European ancestors make me Afrocentric! You dumb lying poof. Posts: 26286 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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Finally, after a month I'm able to make my response although I had to cut it into two posts!
I wonder where the openass is though?? I find it convenient that the asshole is absent and in his place comes a dumber asshole in the form of Arthur Kemp! Posts: 26286 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote: Yes, Arabians as in inhabitants of the Arabian peninsula unless you're saying that geographic feature did not exist back then, nitwit!!
Poor you. Arabic [hence Arabians] didn't exist back then.
quote:Of course, but your dumbass apparently forgot about Moses predecessors in Asia like Abraham who was in fact the true founder of Hebrew traditions that includes all other beliefs and practices that were obviously non-Egyptian.
Nice try. Abraham is seen as the father of the Jews in terms of their genetic descent and genealogy, Moses as the founder of Judaism. You are trying hard to escape this (founder of Judaism: temple structure, rituals and all) ... brought up in all wisdom of the Egyptians ***not*** the Babylonians or Canaanites
quote: Nope. Serpents were largely good in Egypt.
LOL complete non sequitur. The serpent was associated with evil also in Egypt, you initially tried to deny this.
quote: Just because I disagree with your "stolen legacy" premise doesn not make me Eurocentric
No. What makes you Eurocentric is your refusal to back up your denials. But don't worry, we all know why.
Posts: 4254 | From: dasein | Registered: Jun 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Bogled-butt wrote: Poor you. Arabic [hence Arabians] didn't exist back then.
LMAO
Sorry but 'Arabic' is the name of the language and script of Arabs an ethnic group. Of course Arabs didn't exist back then but certainly there were ARABIANS as in inhabitants of the Arabian peninsula, you turd-brain!
quote:Nice try. Abraham is seen as the father of the Jews in terms of their genetic descent and genealogy, Moses as the founder of Judaism. You are trying hard to escape this (founder of Judaism: temple structure, rituals and all) ... brought up in all wisdom of the Egyptians ***not*** the Babylonians or Canaanites
But Abraham is also seen as the founder of the Jewish faith that is religious beliefs as well as traditions that stem from them! True, Moses introduced Egyptian influence to these traditions but that does not negate the fact that the core beliefs of the ancient Hebrews was Asiatic! Also, some of the Egyptian institutions introduced were in discordance with true Hebrew belief such as the seperation of deity from the common people etc.
quote:LOL complete non sequitur. The serpent was associated with evil also in Egypt, you initially tried to deny this.
Nope. If anything the non-sequitor is yours! Serpents in Egypt were largely seen as sacred. There were only a few instances where the serpent is viewed as evil only in a few personages like the demon god Apepi. In Judaism serpents were entirely seen as if not evil, then hostile to people. This is seen in the beliefs of other Semitic people like Arabians who believe some serpents to be the manifestation of malevolent entities like jinn.
quote:No. What makes you Eurocentric is your refusal to back up your denials. But don't worry, we all know why.
What denials?? I don't deny anything, and judging from my responese above, I'm perfectly able to back up my claims unlike YOUR dumb lying jew-frightened-sodomized-ass! Posts: 26286 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote: there were ARABIANS as in inhabitants of the Arabian peninsula
And what language did these "Arabians" speak?
quote: True, Moses introduced Egyptian influence to these traditions
LOL you admit this much!
quote: the core beliefs of the ancient Hebrews was Asiatic!
LOL Apart from few similarities with Bablylonian garden of eden myths, some of which as I said can also be attributed to Egypt, you have in no way proved your assertion. Fact is, Egyptian Moses introduced monotheism, laws, organized structured religion, a literate priesthood to backward Hebrew tribes people. If it wasn't for Moses Hebrews would remain illiterate tribes people with no cohesive, monotheistic set of beliefs. Your months of denials have in no way refuted any of these facts. Sorry.
quote: Serpents in Egypt were largely seen as sacred. There were only a few instances where the serpent is viewed as evil only in a few personages like the demon god Apepi. In Judaism serpents were entirely seen as if not evil, then hostile to people.
LOL more non sequiturs! Boy you really running out of options!
Posts: 4254 | From: dasein | Registered: Jun 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Bogle: And what language did these "Arabians" speak?
It is assumed these Arabians spoke a variety of languages, some of which are Semitic! LOL Why the strawman question?! The fact is that Arabians-- as in people inhabiting the Arabian peninsula existed in ancient times to prehistoric times! That the Semitic speakers were closely related in language and culture to Levantine Semitic speakers is a given!
quote:LOL you admit this much!
Again I never denied Egyptian influence. What I deny are your silly claims that Israelite religious beliefs by and large are a rip-off of Egyptian! Another one of your Jew-discreding lies of course.
quote:LOL Apart from few similarities with Bablylonian garden of eden myths, some of which as I said can also be attributed to Egypt, you have in no way proved your assertion. Fact is, Egyptian Moses introduced monotheism, laws, organized structured religion, a literate priesthood to backward Hebrew tribes people. If it wasn't for Moses Hebrews would remain illiterate tribes people with no cohesive, monotheistic set of beliefs. Your months of denials have in no way refuted any of these facts. Sorry. [QUOTE] LOL It is YOU who hasn't been able to prove your assertions especially that the mythological beliefs you pointed out are Egyptian in origin! Moses did not introduce monotheism as monotheism in Israelite society came much later! The Israelites were henotheists as were all Semitic tribes in ancient times, idiot! Also Hebrew writing was developed from Canaanite which indeed came from Egypt but was the source script of all Semitic speakers.
[quote]LOL more non sequiturs! Boy you really running out of options!
How is this a non-sequitor?? Because I debunked your over-sodimized-ass?! LOL You are pathetic!! I suggest you leave this forum and get your STD ridden self checked in one of those government clinics you have in Britain! Posts: 26286 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote: It is assumed these Arabians spoke a variety of languages
Wow, Arabians not speaking Arabic. LOL
quote: Moses did not introduce monotheism as monotheism in Israelite society came much later!
Wow, you go with Jewish tradition that says Abraham is the founder of the Jewish faith, yet reject that same tradition that claims monotheism from Abrahams time! Amazing gymnastics "Djehuti", all in an effort to deny African origins of beliefs of your precious Jews! LOL
Irrational denials of a stolen legacy that goes back at least to this thread.Posts: 4254 | From: dasein | Registered: Jun 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Bogle: Wow, Arabians not speaking Arabic. LOL
Wow, you are too stupid to know the difference between Arabians-- inhabitants of the Arabian peninsula and the ethnic group known today as 'Arabs'! LOL I'm sorry for that.
quote:Wow, you go with Jewish tradition that says Abraham is the founder of the Jewish faith, yet reject that same tradition that claims monotheism from Abrahams time! Amazing gymnastics "Djehuti", all in an effort to deny African origins of beliefs of your precious Jews! LOL
Abraham is the founder of the Hebrew faith! 'Jewish' faith is in reference to Judea or Israelite which was founded much later, fool! Also you failed to prove how any of those beliefs are African as in Egyptian! Jews obviously aren't as precious to me as they are to YOU whose life is consumed with them!
quote:Irrational denials of a stolen legacy that goes back at least to this thread.
Nope. Even a black Jewish poster in that thread you linked has debunked your dumbass and your lies. Posts: 26286 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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There were no "Arabians" to influence early Hebrew culture, sorry, this is just another of your ass dumb unproven theories.
quote: Abraham is the founder of the Hebrew faith!
You could yell this a thousand times it still wont make it fact. The Jewish or Hebrew bible is not history, sorry.
In fact so-called Jewish tradition or scripture should be weighed against extra-biblical material, hence the multidisciplinary approach that was explained in this thread but obviously went over your head. In other words, everything pre-"Moses", that is, before the introduction of the Atentists, should be taken with a grain of salt. It is to a large extent invented history to create a national identity, it is not real history. It is obvious from your trolling on this topic over the years, that you only resort to so-called Jewish tradition or scripture when you want to deny or dismiss Egyptian influences and origins. However, when it comes to Babylonian and Canaanite (Asian) influences, or alleged influences, you disregard said Jewish tradition or scripture - which is why you have no trouble locating the origins of certain biblical stories and concepts to Babylonian and/or Canaanite mythology.
This is because your whole agenda is to lessen the African origin of Hebrew beliefs and elevate the so-called Asian influences, no matter how slim the evidence. Yet with all your contradictions and deliberate misrepresentations [e.g. the dual significance of serpents in ancient Egyptian mythology which you tried to deny] you have yet to support your anti-African agenda, save pointing out the usual Babylonian similarities with the Garden of Eden while at same time ignoring the Egyptian similarities of said Hebrew myth.
This is text book mainstream Eurocentric tactic to relegate the importance of ancient Egypt. That you resort to it is not surprising. You are like Fawal: your agenda is to lessen ancient Egyptian/African impact on world civilizations. This coupled with your arguments justifying your dismal of Prof. James proves you are Mary Lefkowitz or her student.
You people can't hide for long. Posts: 4254 | From: dasein | Registered: Jun 2009
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There were no "Arabians" to influence early Hebrew culture, sorry, this is just another of your ass dumb unproven theories.
Who said anything about "influence" I'm talking about common origins via proto-Semitic. Hebrew culture is Semitic culture not Egyptian.
quote:You could yell this a thousand times it still wont make it fact. The Jewish or Hebrew bible is not history, sorry.
Who said it was! It was YOU who first brought up Moses! LOL I merely corrected you that Abraham was said to be the founder of Hebrew culture not Moses. And while the Bible is a religious book do you deny that there is some history present as with many religious narrative stories??
quote:In fact so-called Jewish tradition or scripture should be weighed against extra-biblical material, hence the multidisciplinary approach that was explained in this thread but obviously went over your head. In other words, everything pre-"Moses", that is, before the introduction of the Atentists, should be taken with a grain of salt. It is to a large extent invented history to create a national identity, it is not real history. It is obvious from your trolling on this topic over the years, that you only resort to so-called Jewish tradition or scripture when you want to deny or dismiss Egyptian influences and origins. However, when it comes to Babylonian and Canaanite (Asian) influences, or alleged influences, you disregard said Jewish tradition or scripture - which is why you have no trouble locating the origins of certain biblical stories and concepts to Babylonian and/or Canaanite mythology.
Of course multi-disciplinary sources should be considered which still does not refute the fact taht Hebrew culture is Asiatic in origin. As the texts and archaeology of Elba in Syria show! Neither is there any proof that Isrealite monotheism which came centuries later is related in anyway to Atenism! I never denied any Egyptian influence moron, I just don't attribute all Israelite beliefs to Egypt and you still did not refute that Mesopotamian influences are still greater in actual mythological beliefs as I've shown above!
quote:This is because your whole agenda is to lessen the African origin of Hebrew beliefs and elevate the so-called Asian influences, no matter how slim the evidence. Yet with all your contradictions and deliberate misrepresentations [e.g. the dual significance of serpents in ancient Egyptian mythology which you tried to deny] you have yet to support your anti-African agenda, save pointing out the usual Babylonian similarities with the Garden of Eden while at same time ignoring the Egyptian similarities of said Hebrew myth.
Nope. I have no agenda other to accept or present the facts. I've already provided my evidence above NON of which you were able to refute by the way. And please stop whining about the serpent thing. Serpent in Israelite belief are not dual but are simply demonized while in Egypt they are largely sacred.
quote:This is text book mainstream Eurocentric tactic to relegate the importance of ancient Egypt. That you resort to it is not surprising. You are like Fawal: your agenda is to lessen ancient Egyptian/African impact on world civilizations. This coupled with your arguments justifying your dismal of Prof. James proves you are Mary Lefkowitz or her student.
I'm not a Eurocentric, have never asserted anything Eurocentric, ancient Israel is not even in Europe, and I don't espouse Lekfkowitz as you are obsessed with her! I suggest you seek professional help from a shrink and it doesn't have to be a Jewish one!
quote:You people can't hide for long.
What people?? You mean Asian Americans like myself, Jewish people who you are afraid of, or sexually and intellectually frustrated white liberal euro-faggots who cling on to other peoples heritages?? LOLPosts: 26286 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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Dude, there is no historical record of any Abraham. Sorry. What is known as Judaism is largely an Egyptian invention the Hebrews got from "Moses", an Egytpian. Sorry to break it you Bernstein. And all your hysterical rants against the Egyptian origin of Hebrew monotheism and much more, means nothing in the face of the evidence. Nor is your pitiful inflation of Babylonian influences as somehow "greater". Your meager analogies with the Garden of Eden myth cannot even begin to compare with monotheism, laws, temple structure, rituals, ark etc. Sorry, you lose again.
Posts: 4254 | From: dasein | Registered: Jun 2009
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^ The reason why Babylonian influence is greater in Hebrew mythology is because the ancient Hebrews from Abrahamic times to before lived in close proximity to Babylon as shown in the texts of the ancient city of Ebla in modern day Tell Mardikh, Syria. These texts dating 2,300 B.C show a Semitic language that is most similar to Hebrew than to anything else and even contains names of places and persons which are found in Biblical texts written a thousand years later. What's more is that in the list of kings, 'Abaramu' (Abraham) is mentioned as a founding ancestor whose own ancestor Eber (progenitor of Eberu/Hebrews) originated farther east in Haran which is in northern Mesopotamia. This geneology is the same in Biblical Genesis. What's more is unlike later Biblical texts, Mesopotamian deities and myths are mentioned along with the chief deity El or Elohim.
Of course these were the forebearers of later Israelites who settled farther south in the Levant. It is these Israelites who recieved further influence in terms of some traditions from Egypt via the Mosaic tradition but the spiritual beliefs were largely the same. You are so quick to dismiss the existence of figures like Moses or Abraham. Not that I support their existence, but the point is that the Israelites and Hebrews like many tribal peoples hold traditional geneologies where they claim descent from a personage. Whether that personage was real or a metaphor for an ancestral group, it remains the same that you cannot dispute the ancestry or heritage. Posts: 26286 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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^ LOL your pathetic attempt to historicize "Abraham" [all the while unable to connect the birth Judaism before the Egyptian "Moses"] only underscores my point, "Abraham is seen as the father of the Jews in terms of their genetic descent and genealogy, Moses as the founder of Judaism."
You are pitifully desperate to deny, "Moses" founder of Judaism: monotheism, temple structure, rituals, laws, ark etc ... brought up in all wisdom of the Egyptians ***not*** the Babylonians or Canaanites.
^ choke on that anti-African! lol
Posts: 4254 | From: dasein | Registered: Jun 2009
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^ LMAO What pathetic attempt?! Againg I never said Abraham was a real person, but I did provide historical evidence of such a personage or the belief there of via the Ebla texts. The religious and spiritual traditions of Jews can all be traced to their Hebrew ancestors at Elba NOT Egypt! Yes, of course there was Egyptian influence, again likely attributed to relations in Egypt as well as Moses (which YOU seem to love to acknowledge but strangely not Abraham)!
And as usual, you make the allegation that I am anti-African when I've said nothing against Africa. Just because I point out your failure to attribute Hebrew-Israelite spiritual beliefs to Egypt does not mean I'm "anti-African"! LOL
Again, look up the Ebla Texts! Of course your ignorant-ass hasn't even heard of them have you?.. even though you argue on the topic of ancient Jewish religious traditions!
Posts: 26286 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: I did provide historical evidence of such a personage or the belief there of
Yes you provided evidence of a belief, how profound.
quote:Again, look up the Ebla Texts!
LMAO @ Mary getting all exited about her Asian texts as if anyone denied the Semitic Hebrew were free of Semitic influences! LOL. Semitic deities (Yah and EL) and names, Biblical stories of Sodom and Gomorrah only show mythological commonalities of the ancient Asian civilizations (duh!) a lot of which can be traced to Africa anyway (Diop, Ben Yochannan, DuBios et al.)
Do your texts say the founder of Judaism was learned in all the wisdom of the Asians; does it say a Syrian authored the first five books of the Hebrew Bible? Does it say a Syrian introduced monotheism, temple structure, rituals, laws, Ark of the Covenant, a literate priesthood to the Hebrews? Please quote where it says this.
quote:(Abraham) is mentioned as a founding ancestor - Mary
Isnt it strange, in all your ranting and raving you come back to this, "Abraham is seen as the father of the Jews in terms of their genetic descent and genealogy, Moses as the founder of Judaism."
That you are willing to look to Syria, when the very tradition itself points to Africa shows yet again how much you are dedicated to Not Out Of Africa. Posts: 4254 | From: dasein | Registered: Jun 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Bogle: Yes you provided evidence of a belief, how profound.
No more than the belief in Moses which you uphold, moron!
quote:LMAO @ Mary getting all exited about her Asian texts as if anyone denied the Semitic Hebrew were free of Semitic influences! LOL. Semitic deities (Yah and EL) and names, Biblical stories of Sodom and Gomorrah only show mythological commonalities of the ancient Asian civilizations (duh!) a lot of which can be traced to Africa anyway (Diop, Ben Yochannan, DuBios et al.)
There is no "Mary" here, you are addressing Djehuti. I'm not excited, just humored at how stupid you are! You still don't get it that there were no Semitic "influences" because Hebrew IS Semitic! Of course Sodom and Gomorrah aren't the only myths but pretty much ALL old Hebrew stories are Asian. Which others can be traced to Africa other than the stories of dwelling in Egypt??
quote:Do your texts say the founder of Judaism was learned in all the wisdom of the Asians; does it say a Syrian authored the first five books of the Hebrew Bible? Does it say a Syrian introduced monotheism, temple structure, rituals, laws, Ark of the Covenant, a literate priesthood to the Hebrews? Please quote where it says this.
quote:(Abraham) is mentioned as a founding ancestor - Mary
Isnt it strange, in all your ranting and raving you come back to this, "Abraham is seen as the father of the Jews in terms of their genetic descent and genealogy, [i]Moses as the founder of Judaism."
LOL @ your inconsistency to deny the existence of Abraham yet cling on to "Moses"-- BOTH equal ancestral personages. But the former being older. Moses is the founder of the Torah but how is this African or Egyptian as you say other than Ten Commandments??
quote:That you are willing to look to Syria, when the very tradition itself points to Africa shows yet again how much you are dedicated to Not Out Of Africa.
Nope. Archaeological and historical evidence (including Hebrew writings themselves) are quite clear, you moron! How about you refute the Ebla texts or find such older in Egypt?? Can you do that? Nope. I don't think so and I don't see how this is anti-African, you idiot! Posts: 26286 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote: your inconsistency to deny the existence of Abraham yet cling on to "Moses"—
What a simpleton you are. I never said anything about Moses or Abraham being real historical personages, I am merely pointing to how Judaic tradition sees both. "Abraham is seen as the father of the Jews in terms of their genetic descent and genealogy, Moses as the founder of Judaism."
^ You have yet to refute this.
quote: pretty much ALL old Hebrew stories are Asian.
Wow, in the past you juggle influences between Levant (Canaan) and Mesopotamia, contradicting yourself about which contributed more, now in your state of desperation in not being able to contradict Judaism's own tradition of pointing to Africa as the source, you scream pretty much ALL influences are Asian. LOL
Screaming it would make it so? Sorry.
"Abraham is seen as the father of the Jews in terms of their genetic descent and genealogy, Moses as the founder of Judaism."
^ You have yet to refute this.
quote:Which others can be traced to Africa other than the stories of dwelling in Egypt??
For a list of African influences on Hebrew stories/culture see Diop, Dr. Ben, Massey to name only a few.
quote: Moses is the founder of the Torah
Good lord! the imbecile admits this much! LOL Yes Mary, the tradition points to Africa, oh how this pains you.
quote:but how is this African or Egyptian as you say other than Ten Commandments??
OMG! So now you want to relegate African influences to just the Ten Commandments? Is this how much you hate Africa mary?! LOL
quote: How about you refute the Ebla texts or find such older in Egypt??
LOL what is there to "refute"?
*sigh*
Do your texts say the founder of Judaism was learned in all the wisdom of the Asians; does it say a Syrian authored the first five books of the Hebrew Bible? Does it say a Syrian introduced monotheism, temple structure, rituals, laws, Ark of the Covenant, a literate priesthood to the Hebrews? Please quote where it says this.
Seems the onus is on YOU Mary.
Posts: 4254 | From: dasein | Registered: Jun 2009
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^ Obviously Bogle can't get them cuz he's too scared of them! LOL
quote:Originally posted by Bogle: What a simpleton you are. I never said anything about Moses or Abraham being real historical personages, I am merely pointing to how Judaic tradition sees both. "Abraham is seen as the father of the Jews in terms of their genetic descent and genealogy, Moses as the founder of Judaism."
^ You have yet to refute this.
The only simpleton here is YOU. What is there to refute?? Moses may be the father of Judaism in that he is considered the author of the Torah but these stories stem from earlier sources in Asia per the Ebla texts. You have not (cannot) refute those either.
quote:Wow, in the past you juggle influences between Levant (Canaan) and Mesopotamia, contradicting yourself about which contributed more, now in your state of desperation in not being able to contradict Judaism's own tradition of pointing to Africa as the source, you scream pretty much ALL influences are Asian. LOL
No contradiction from I. Judahites WERE Levantine and most of the influence in terms of beliefs did come from Mesopotamia again as all the examples I provided as well as Elba.
quote:Screaming it would make it so? Sorry.
Of course! Which is exactly why no matter how much you scream and b*tch about it, it simply ain't so.
quote:For a list of African influences on Hebrew stories/culture see Diop, Dr. Ben, Massey to name only a few.
I'm asking YOU, moron! You tried to provide answers before in this thread-- non of which is proven and on the contrary is refuted.
quote:Good lord! the imbecile admits this much! LOL Yes Mary, the tradition points to Africa, oh how this pains you.
Nope. Please show me examples of Torah-like mythological stories and traditions in Egypt. Sorry foolish child but silly face graemlin icons aren't substitute for answers! LMAO
quote:OMG! So now you want to relegate African influences to just the Ten Commandments? Is this how much you hate Africa mary?! LOL [QUOTE] The Ten Commandments show obvious resemblance to the Egyptian Negative Confessions. But what about all the other stuff?? Again, I'm not your school teacher "Mary", and please explain how I "hate" Africa because I don't acknowledge any of your claims which you are unable to prove.
[quote]LOL what is there to "refute"?
Indeed, what of the Elba texts is there to refute?? You got NOTHING.
quote:*sigh*
Do your texts say the founder of Judaism was learned in all the wisdom of the Asians; does it say a Syrian authored the first five books of the Hebrew Bible? Does it say a Syrian introduced monotheism, temple structure, rituals, laws, Ark of the Covenant, a literate priesthood to the Hebrews? Please quote where it says this.
Seems the onus is on YOU Mary.
Again, there is no "Mary" here. You are addressing Djehuti. Unlike your Jewish school teacher I'm not going to allow your dumbass to slide easily. All of the stories of Genesis are found in Elba, monotheism came about much later in Israel but henotheistic hegemony of Elhom or Yahweh had nothing to do with Egypt. Similar rituals and laws are found in the Levant, literate priesthood is also found there with all scripts originating in Egypt yes but not the whole priesthood. The ark of the covenant and some temple architecture, yes. But your topic was about actual spiritual beliefs and traditions which is NO.
Anymore whining??
Posts: 26286 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Moses may be the father of Judaism in that he is considered the author of the Torah but these stories stem from earlier sources in Asia per the Ebla texts.
So basically you are arguing that although "Moses" was African none of the stories, themes, concepts in a script, ascribed to his authorship, is African. LOL And this is not being ANTI-AFRICAN?!? LOL
quote:You have not (cannot) refute those either.
LOL You have not "proven" anything dumbass. All you have done is present one source of influence on the Hebrew culture, while forgetting there were many sources. What a bird brain you are.
And of course forgetting also that according to their own tradition, the founder of Judaism (i.e. Hebrew mythology) was African.
The Ebla tablets you like to inflate were written in a Sumerian script, religion of the region primarily Canaanite. So its basically a Sumerian import. So whatever Biblical similarities in these near eastern civilizations [especially around this time] can easily be attributed to ancient Egypt we know that Sumerian and Canaan cosmology (creation myth etc) is to large extent an outgrowth of ancient Egypt, see Massey, Diop, Barashango just to name a few. There was no near eastern civilization around this time that can claim independence and purity from ancient Egypt.
These "Asian" civilizations did not spring up independent and autonomous from the worlds first civilization in the Nile Valley and you are alone in arguing this - well you have company in Lefkowitz your teacher Not Out Of Africa.
Sorry mary, the Hebrews were influenced by Africa [in fact they say their founder/law giver was African ] and indirectly from Africa through places like Sumer and Canaan. And of course according to their own tradition, the founder of Judaism (i.e. Hebrew mythology) was African. LOL
quote: Please show me examples of Torah-like mythological stories and traditions in Egypt.
See sources above moron.
quote: The Ten Commandments show obvious resemblance to the Egyptian Negative Confessions. But what about all the other stuff??
Other stuff like monotheism, genesis, proverbs, serpent and staff symbolism, temple structure, rituals, laws, Ark of the Covenant, a literate priesthood? I already defeated you with them.
quote:All of the stories of Genesis are found in Elba
LOL This is a lie of course, not even the defenders of the Elba tablets say this.
quote:monotheism came about much later in Israel
Already exposed this straw.
quote:Similar rituals and laws are found in the Levant, literate priesthood is also found there with all scripts originating in Egypt yes but not the whole priesthood. The ark of the covenant and some temple architecture, yes.
Oh how it must pain you to admit this much while condescendingly down playing their relevance. You are the liberal version of Dirk, Kemp et al. I have indeed succeeded in exposing your lilly white liberal racist ass! LOL
Posts: 4254 | From: dasein | Registered: Jun 2009
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