posted
Contrary to previous understandings of E3b1a originating in East Africa, (Ethiopia, Somalia), E3b1a (E-M78) has now been determined to have originated in the north of Egypt, according to the latest resampling and analysis done by Cruciani, et al. 2007, and presented in a research paper entitled
"Tracing past human male movements in northern/eastern Africa and western Eurasia: new clues from Y-chromosomal haplogroups E-M78 and J-M12"
In the paper, researchers set forth the most detailed analysis yet preformed on this haplogroup, it's subtypes, and their clades, being present at high frequencies in a wide area stretching from northern and eastern Africa, Europe and western Asia. The migration of E-M78 to Europe occured directly from Egypt, not as an expansion from East Africa. E-M78 expanded from Northeast Africa into East Africa.
From the abstract:
In the present study, we provide detailed population data on the distribution of EM78 binary sub-haplogroups defined by ten UEPs (two of which are here described for the first time) in a sample of 6501 Y chromosomes belonging to 81 populations mainly from Europe, western Asia and Africa. In order to obtain estimates of internal diversity and coalescence age of E-M78 sub-haplogroups and the associated human migrations and demographic expansions, we also analyzed a set of eleven microsatellites. The same set of microsatellites was also analyzed in a sample of Y chromosomes belonging to the haplogroup J-M12, whose geographic distribution in Europe strictly overlaps that of a single E-M78 sub-haplogroup. Our results not only provide a refinement of previous evolutionary hypotheses based on microsatellites alone, but also well defined time frames for different migratory events that led to the dispersal of these haplogroups and sub-haplogroups in the Old World.
From the analysis and discussion
The subdivision of E-M78 in the six common major clades revealed a pronounced geographic structuring (table 1, fig. 2): haplogroup E-V65 and the paragroups E-M78* and E-V12* were observed mainly in northern Africa, haplogroup E-V13 was found at high frequencies in Europe, and haplogroup E-V32 was observed at high frequencies only in eastern Africa. The only haplogroup showing a wide geographic distribution was E-V22, relatively common in north-eastern and eastern Africa, but also found in Europe, western Asia, up to southern Asia (table 1, fig. 2).
Locating the origin of haplogroup E-M78
An eastern African origin for this haplogroup was hypothesized on the basis of the exclusive presence in that area of a putative ancestral 12-repeat allele at the DYS392 microsatellite, found in association with E-M78 chromosomes (Semino et al. 2004).
North-eastern African populations were not represented in that study.
In order to test this hypothesis, we analyzed for DYS392 a geographically widespread subset of the E-M78 chromosomes here identified. We observed that the DYS392 12-repeat allele is associated with the majority of the chromosomes belonging to the north-eastern African E-V12* (15 out of 18 ) and to the eastern African E-V32 (21 out of 23), with about half (9 out of 21 ) of the E-V22 chromosomes (both in eastern and north-eastern Africa), with a few of the European E-V13 (2 out of 23 ) and with some north-African E-V65 (3 out of 16 ) chromosomes.
These findings show that the DYS392 12-repeat allele is common in different regions characterized by high frequencies of E-M78, and suggest that it was most likely generated by multiple mutational events occurring in different UEP-defined sub-haplogroups. Thus, the DYS392 allele distribution is not informative to infer the place of origin of E-M78 chromosomes.
The frequencies of E-M78 in northeastern Africa and eastern Africa are not significantly different (0.25 0.03 and 0.22 0.02, respectively ). As far as the microsatellite diversity is concerned, the highest mean variances across seven tetranucleotide loci are those observed in eastern Africa and north-eastern Africa (0.50 and 0.46, respectively ), but an examination of the variances at individual loci, reveals that in eastern Africa there is a disproportionate contribution of DYS19 to the mean variance (1.87 ). This is likely due to a multi-repeat deletion associated with the common eastern African E-V32 haplogroup (Cruciani et al. 2006, and supplementary table 1 ).
When this locus is removed from the analysis, we obtain mean variances across six loci of 0.41 and 0.27, for north-eastern and eastern Africa, respectively. Variances at the six individual loci are always higher in the former region, and this difference is statistically significant for the microsatellite locus DYS461
Finally, a greater diversity of E-M78 binary subhaplogroups can be observed in north-eastern Africa (0.61 ? 0.04 ), where all the E-M78 major branches are present, than in eastern Africa (0.30 ? 0.08 ), where only subhaplogroups E-V22 and E-V32 are found. E-V22 is observed at high frequencies in both north-eastern and eastern Africa, with microsatellite variances of 0.46 and 0.35, respectively.
The other common eastern African sub-haplogroup, E-V32, that represents about 82% of the eastern African E-M78 chromosomes, is a relatively recent terminal branch of E-V12 (8.5 ky, fig. 1 ), the remaining E-V12 chromosomes being found almost exclusively in north-eastern Africa as paragroup E-V12*. The haplogroups E-V13 and E-V65 are also found in north-eastern Africa. While an origin for E-V13 outside the region is likely (see below), E-V65 probably originated in situ as inferred on the basis of its nearly exclusive presence and diversity. It is also worth noting that the rare paragroup
E-M78* has not been observed in eastern Africa; moreover, the two north-western African E-M78* chromosomes are well differentiated from the two north-eastern African E-M78* chromosomes (supplementary table 1) adding a new argument for a higher haplogroup diversity in northern Africa.
In conclusion, the peripheral geographic distribution of the most derived subhaplogroups with respect to north-eastern Africa, as well as the results of quantitativeanalysis of UEP and microsatellite diversity are strongly suggestive of a north-eastern rather than an eastern African origin of E-M78. North-eastern Africa thus seems to be the place from where E-M78 chromosomes started to disperse to other African regions and outside Africa.
Posts: 1106 | From: Puerto Rico | Registered: Aug 2007
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posted
^ Interesting finding. But the origin is still African as to be expected so?...
Also, I am somewhat confused by this statement.
...The migration of E-M78 to Europe occured directly from Egypt, not as an expansion from East Africa. E-M78 expanded from Northeast Africa into East Africa.
^ Of course any expansion of E-M78 directly into Europe had to come from Egypt, even if its origins were farther south in sub-saharan east Africa! What? So in its expansion into Europe, its carriers would have skipped Egypt by flying planes?! LOL
My question is did it enter Europe immediately from Egypt by crossing the Mediterranean or did it enter Western Asia first, and then into Europe?
Posts: 26260 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: ^ Interesting finding. But the origin is still African as to be expected so?...
Also, I am somewhat confused by this statement.
...The migration of E-M78 to Europe occured directly from Egypt, not as an expansion from East Africa. E-M78 expanded from Northeast Africa into East Africa.
^ Of course any expansion of E-M78 directly into Europe had to come from Egypt, even if its origins were farther south in sub-saharan east Africa! What? So in its expansion into Europe, its carriers would have skipped Egypt by flying planes?! LOL
My question is did it enter Europe immediately from Egypt by crossing the Mediterranean or did it enter Western Asia first, and then into Europe?
Dj this find isn't new, regardless if a mutation arose in Egypt, the original pristine lineage lies in Sub Saharan East Africa, and is exactly why Arnaiz Villena et al. proposes.....
Population genetic relationships between Mediterranean populations determined by HLA allele distribution and a historic perspective.
Arnaiz-Villena A, Gomez-Casado E, Martinez-Laso J.
HLA genomics shows that: 1) Greeks share an important part of their genetic pool with sub-Saharan Africans (Ethiopians and west Africans) also supported by Chr 7 Markers. The gene flow from Black Africa to Greece may have occurred in Pharaonic times or when Saharan people emigrated after the present hyperarid conditions were established (5000 years B.C.).
-----
Arnaiz-Villena A, Dimitroski K, Pacho A, Moscoso J, Gómez-Casado E, Silvera-Redondo C, Varela P, Blagoevska M, Zdravkovska V, Martínez-Laso J.
Department of Immunology and Molecular Biology, H. 12 de Octubre, Universidad Complutense, Madrid, Spain. aarnaiz@eucmax.sim.ucm.es
HLA alleles have been determined in individuals from the Republic of Macedonia by DNA typing and sequencing. HLA-A, -B, -DR, -DQ allele frequencies and extended haplotypes have been for the first time determined and the results compared to those of other Mediterraneans, particularly with their neighbouring Greeks. Genetic distances, neighbor-joining dendrograms and correspondence analysis have been performed. The following conclusions have been reached: 1) Macedonians belong to the "older" Mediterranean substratum, like Iberians (including Basques), North Africans, Italians, French, Cretans, Jews, Lebanese, Turks (Anatolians), Armenians and Iranians, 2) Macedonians are not related with geographically close Greeks, who do not belong to the "older" Mediterranenan substratum, 3) Greeks are found to have a substantial relatedness to sub-Saharan (Ethiopian) people, which separate them from other Mediterranean groups. Both Greeks and Ethiopians share quasi-specific DRB1 alleles, such as *0305, *0307, *0411, *0413, *0416, *0417, *0420, *1110, *1112, *1304 and *1310. Genetic distances are closer between Greeks and Ethiopian/sub-Saharan groups than to any other Mediterranean group and finally Greeks cluster with Ethiopians/sub-Saharans in both neighbour joining dendrograms and correspondence analyses. The time period when these relationships might have occurred was ancient but uncertain and might be related to the displacement of Egyptian-Ethiopian people living in pharaonic Egypt.Posts: 6572 | From: N.Y.C....Capital of the World | Registered: Jun 2008
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quote:Originally posted by Charlie Bass: Lets set Evil Euro turd up for a trap about his E3b is K-Zoid mania:
Damn, look at all those areas where E3b appears in high frequencies in SSA, by Evil Euroturd's logic SSA should be overwhelmingly Levantine K-Zoid looking
According to this study, Datog, who are Nilotic speaking people have 43% E3b1-M293, but since E3b is Caucasoid, why don't they look like so-called "mulattoes" and instead look like this:
Almost forgot those darfur people too, damn another study said this about Darfur males:
"Haplogroup E-M78, however, is more widely distributed and is thought to have an origin in eastern African. More recently, this haplogroup has been carefully dissected and was found to depict several well-established subclades with defined geographical clustering (Cruciani et al., 2006, 2007). Although this haplogroup is common to most Sudanese populations, it has exceptionally high frequency among populations like those of western Sudan (particularly Darfur) and the Beja in eastern Sudan."
And those Masalit
"The Masalit possesses by far the highest frequency of the E-M78 and of the E-V32 haplogroup, suggesting either a recent bottleneck in the population or a proximity to the origin of the haplogroup. Both E-V13, which is believed to originate in western Asia with its low frequency in North Africa, and E-V65 of North African origin (Cruciani et al., 2007), were not found among Sudanese."
quote:The Masalit possesses by far the highest frequency of the E-M78 and of the E-V32 haplogroup, suggesting either a recent bottleneck in the population or a proximity to the origin of the haplogroup.
posted
^ it's worth noting that linguists such as ehret posit the sudanese nile as the origin of the Afrisan [so called afro-asiatic] language phylum.
This would also explain why pre-dynastic egyptians [and dynastic as well] are tropical in skeletype, even though egypt is not in the tropics and concurrent levantines are *not* tropical.
Yes, this includes even delta ancient egyptians...
Ancient Egypt Anatomy of a Civilisation(Paperback) by Barry Kemp (Author) Publisher: Routledge; 2 edition (December 12, 2005) p.54
"Moving to the opposite geographic extremity, the very small sample populations available from northern Egypt from before the 1st Dynasty(Merimda, Maadi and Wadi Digla) turn out to be significantly different from sample populations from early Palestine and Byblos, suggesting a lack of common ancestors over a long time. If there was a south-north cline of variation along the Nile Valley it did not, from this limited evidence, continue smoothly on into Palestine. The limb-length proportions of males from the Egyptian sites group them with Africans rather than with Europeans"
^ Those who want ancient Kemet to be non African or non Black, can feel free to start explaining.
Contrary to previous understandings of E3b1a originating in East Africa, (Ethiopia, Somalia), E3b1a (E-M78) has now been determined to have originated in the north of Egypt, according to the latest resampling and analysis done by Cruciani, et al. 2007, and presented in a research paper entitled
Where was that claimed in the study?
Based on the haplotype frequency and distribution data provided by Cruciani et al. 2007, it would seem that the E-M78* likely arose somewhere in the bidirectional-migration route between Northeast and sub-Saharan East Africa; this location was likely in the region straddling upper Egypt and Sudan of the eastern Sahara, amongst earlier E-M35 migrants from sub-Saharan East Africa.
^This is clear from the fact that it is the southern Egyptian samples, as opposed to that of northern Egypt [where none had been reported by the authors in question], that has the highest frequency of E-M78*. Cruciani et al.'s obvious handicap stems from the fact that the whole area of the Sudanese region was skipped for sampling; rather, their sampling covered Egypt, and skipped straight to the African horn.
At any rate, the flow of E3b can be summarized into about four main episodes, based on geographic and quantitative analysis of haplogroup and micro satellite diversity:
Sometime in the Upper Paleolithic, between 23.9 and 17.3ky ago, E3b (M215) bearing chromosomes were introduced to northeast Africa from sub-Saharan East Africa.
The M78 mutation ('''E3b1''') then occurred in the E3b chromosomes distributed in Northeast Africa, to be followed by a back-migration episode to sub-Saharan East Africa, sometime between 18ky and 5.9ky ago. Some chromosomes which had acquired the M78 mutation in Northeast Africa undoubtedly also made their way westward in North Africa.
Sometime around 13ky ago, these M78 bearing E3b chromosomes were introduced to Europe directly from northern Africa.
Between 20 and 6.8ky ago, M78 bearing E3b chromosomes were introduced into western Asia from Northeast Africa. [Cruciani et al. 2007]
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: ^ Interesting finding. But the origin is still African as to be expected so?...
Also, I am somewhat confused by this statement.
...The migration of E-M78 to Europe occured directly from Egypt, not as an expansion from East Africa. E-M78 expanded from Northeast Africa into East Africa.
^ Of course any expansion of E-M78 directly into Europe had to come from Egypt, even if its origins were farther south in sub-saharan east Africa! What? So in its expansion into Europe, its carriers would have skipped Egypt by flying planes?! LOL
My question is did it enter Europe immediately from Egypt by crossing the Mediterranean or did it enter Western Asia first, and then into Europe?
Posts: 1106 | From: Puerto Rico | Registered: Aug 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: My question is did it enter Europe immediately from Egypt by crossing the Mediterranean or did it enter Western Asia first, and then into Europe?
The second one.
Posts: 1106 | From: Puerto Rico | Registered: Aug 2007
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posted
^ actually *both* according to Cruciani. have to read these studies more carefully, instead of trying to put a 'middle eastern' spin, on and east african lineage.
Posts: 15202 | Registered: Jun 2004
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posted
^ There is no way of putting "a spin" on the FACT of E-M78 origins in Africa. Of course Eurocentrists have tried to simply by including northeast Africa (Egypt) as "Middle Eastern", but all geo-politics aside it was still African. OK I never doubted such a fact.
I am more interested in how it spread to Europe. So according to Cruciani it was both from Asia to Europe as well as directly from Africa to Europe via crossing the Mediterranean??
If so, I am interested in the latter case-- that Africans actually sailed and island hopped from the North African coast to mainland Europe. This makes me wonder even more about the ancient Argive legends of Greece. Or better yet, it strongly corroborates the archaeological findings of the first (neolithic) settlers of Crete (Minoa).
Posts: 26260 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: ^ There is no way of putting "a spin" on the FACT of E-M78 origins in Africa. Of course Eurocentrists have tried to simply by including northeast Africa (Egypt) as "Middle Eastern", but all geo-politics aside it was still African. OK I never doubted such a fact.
I am more interested in how it spread to Europe. So according to Cruciani it was both from Asia to Europe as well as directly from Africa to Europe via crossing the Mediterranean??
If so, I am interested in the latter case-- that Africans actually sailed and island hopped from the North African coast to mainland Europe. This makes me wonder even more about the ancient Argive legends of Greece. Or better yet, it strongly corroborates the archaeological findings of the first (neolithic) settlers of Crete (Minoa).
Why are you interested in the African presence in early Europe Mary? You already said that classical "Greek" philosophy is not a stolen legacy, with no proof of course, so why pretend as if you are interested in truth? LOL
Posts: 4165 | From: jamaica | Registered: May 2008
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posted
^^^Why is it that your only purpose to interrupt threads rather than provide valuable input that can considered a correction?
Posts: 6572 | From: N.Y.C....Capital of the World | Registered: Jun 2008
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quote:Eva wrote: Why are you interested in the African presence in early Europe Mary? You already said that classical "Greek" philosophy is not a stolen legacy, with no proof of course, so why pretend as if you are interested in truth? LOL
Classical Greek philosophy is NOT stolen as shown here. So enough with the nonsense! Including calling me "Mary". I don't play the opposite sex role play you do with your boyfriends, Eva! Posts: 26260 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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